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Kindle With A Dose Of Rock And Roll Question

by Craig Fenton
22 replies
Hi Warriors:

Hope it has been a great week for all.

Over the past several months I've vacillated between releasing something on Kindle (at this point books are not written). The books I would create are not the same as the ones available on Amazon already.

Here is the dilemma. My two Rock & Roll Books (actual books that can be purchased) did nicely. On the one hand I thought I carry over the formula to Kindle but after asking numerous people and reading threads on and off the Warrior Forum it seems that the genres that everyone is in agreement that do well DO NOT Rock!

Not one person mentioned Rock & Roll as something that is an area that breathes success. With that said do you think the reason (this is the best I could deduce) for Rock & Roll not being a segment that makes good money is the demographic wants a physical product? I noticed that people in my demographic for example to this day would much rather have an actual item in their hand such as buying a CD or DVD and not paying for a download. Even when it comes to watching something TV seems to win out over the computer.

Another thing is Rock & Roll books often have great pictures be it color or black and white but for what it costs to secure the rights the Kindle book would not be advantageous to release. Could that be an issue too? The reader wants the photos regardless of the content?

Does that make sense?

As for cents, do you feel there are ways to circumvent areas that have not been known to sell as well as fiction for example and the photo question too?

Thanks for any answers and thoughts.
#dose #kindle #rock #roll
  • Profile picture of the author TemperThompson
    If you've got the book already written, why are you waiting around and trying to decide whether to publish it or not?
    It's still worth publishing, whether the niche does well or not. People may not want to buy your physical book because of the price, but when they see your Kindle version for a lower price, they might buy that instead of buying nothing.

    You should just publish it. It may be a success, it may only get a few sales, or it may be in the middle. Either way, it's worth publishing it since you've already got it. I don't see a reason why you wouldn't?

    It's free to publish the book on Kindle. Also, Amazon has built in rights protection, so I don't see why you'd be paying for it elsewhere.

    As for the photos, people tend to like them. It gives the book a sense of added quality. Also, if you put your book file in a .PDF, it will take up less space than other files, if you're not already doing this.

    Hope I've helped you
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    • Profile picture of the author Craig Fenton
      Hi Temper:

      The books are not written. If they were I would have released them because at that point there is no down side.

      Thanks for reply.
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      • Profile picture of the author TemperThompson
        Originally Posted by Craig Fenton View Post

        Hi Temper:

        The books are not written. If they were I would have released them because at that point there is no down side.

        Thanks for reply.
        Oh, I thought you said that they were already written and published as a physical book.

        Anyway, if you want to know how good the niche is, there is a way. Go onto Amazon and find books on a topic similar to yours. See how good their rankings are.
        If quite a few of them have a ranking under 75,000, it's worth doing in my opinion. They're getting steady sales. If they're all ranked in the hundred-thousands, they're not getting sales. (not worth doing at that point)

        Here's a site I use to check out how many sales a book is getting according to the rank:
        kdpcalculator.com

        Hopefully this will help you out
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        • Profile picture of the author Craig Fenton
          Hi Temper:

          Thanks for the info.

          Any thoughts on the questions I posted as to why Rock & Roll books do so much better as physical releases? I gave my view in the original post.

          Your help is much appreciated!
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          • Profile picture of the author TemperThompson
            Originally Posted by Craig Fenton View Post

            Hi Temper:

            Thanks for the info.

            Any thoughts on the questions I posted as to why Rock & Roll books do so much better as physical releases? I gave my view in the original post.

            Your help is much appreciated!
            That's a question that I can't really answer with analytics. It's all about the people buying the product.
            People like to have a physical, tangible product in their hands.
            Also, I can't think of any rock fans or guitar players who have a Kindle.

            I couldn't really answer that questing without guessing, though.
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            • Profile picture of the author Craig Fenton
              Hi Temper:

              It is interesting because although you mentioned guessing you thought the same as I did when you said "I don't know any rock fan or guitar player that has Kindle."

              It seems that the Rock & Roll Generation wants physical products regardless of cost.

              Thanks so much for contributing to the thread. The link you gave will be a big help too!
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              • Profile picture of the author ElijahM
                I completely agree with the other responses. I know a few hardcore rock and roll fans that would order a traditional book from Amazon but they would have to ask me how to order it! If I would get them a Kindle, they wouldn't have any idea what to do with it.
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                • Profile picture of the author Craig Fenton
                  Hi Elijah:

                  It seems you, Temper, and I have the same thoughts. Based on demographics of the Rock Roll Generation they want physical products.

                  I first saw that not only with myself but others my age when digital downloads were offered of entire albums. I would rather travel to a store and have the actual copy of the CD.

                  The one bad thing about this is it removes a large percentage of people that could have been potential customers.

                  Thanks for your post.
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              • Profile picture of the author John Jonas Phil VA
                Originally Posted by Craig Fenton View Post

                Hi Temper:

                It is interesting because although you mentioned guessing you thought the same as I did when you said "I don't know any rock fan or guitar player that has Kindle."

                It seems that the Rock & Roll Generation wants physical products regardless of cost.

                Thanks so much for contributing to the thread. The link you gave will be a big help too!
                I have to disagree. My brother in law is in a band and I work actively with the local music community here in the Philippines. I agree that a lot of the older musicians would prefer to have real physical products but the younger rock and roll artists I know are very tech-savvy.

                I think the success of your product would depend on how you market your book to this younger demographic. And it's a market you should take advantage of! If you're book is really good, these artists are often more than willing to share, review, or talk about your book with their fans which can expand you market base.
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                • Profile picture of the author Craig Fenton
                  Hi John:

                  Above all I hope you and your family are safe after the typhoon.

                  One thing that is imperative to understand is the demographic I would be aiming at is older. The music I am writing about is based on people that that grew up with 60's and 70's Rock & Roll. The segment of people that I would want to use Kindle want physical products (that was what the thread was eluding to).

                  Have a great day and thanks for posting!
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                • Profile picture of the author Craig Fenton
                  Hi King:

                  The concern is still the demographic that I aim for is not the one that buys non-physical products as a rule. Please see posts by Temper, he articulated things perfectly!

                  Have a great day!
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  • Profile picture of the author Slate Marketing
    Craig,
    A rock and roll book should do great on the Kindle, I have no doubts about that at all. The key will be the branding and marketing that you do behind it, but you can definitely be successful with that topic.
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    • Profile picture of the author Craig Fenton
      Hi Slate:

      Thanks for reply.

      Concern is still what has been pontificated throughout the thread. As mentioned if you look at my original thoughts and what Temper articulated as well it sums up why certain segments of books sell on Kindle and others do not.

      The product I would offer would always have exceptional work and merit behind it but it comes down to those that want and those that do not want physical products.

      Have a great day!
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      • Profile picture of the author Slate Marketing
        Originally Posted by Craig Fenton View Post

        Hi Slate:

        Thanks for reply.

        Concern is still what has been pontificated throughout the thread. As mentioned if you look at my original thoughts and what Temper articulated as well it sums up why certain segments of books sell on Kindle and others do not.

        The product I would offer would always have exceptional work and merit behind it but it comes down to those that want and those that do not want physical products.

        Have a great day!
        There are plenty of rock and roll fans that have Kindle's, Smartphones, iPad's, etc and it will continue to grow every single day. You definitely need to be digital with your books in addition to physical copies. There is no reason not to do both.
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        • Profile picture of the author Steve B
          Craig,

          Why don't you put forth the effort to find out if your assumption about rock & roll fans wanting physical products is really valid or not? Yes - it will take some work but it's the only way you're going to know if your thinking is right. Besides, even if your book doesn't sell well, you will still have a finished product that could be used as a bonus to your next rock & roll offering. Or it could become a give-away to entice rock fans to your web site.

          I personally think rock & roll is a great niche to be in. It's not going to be saturated with lots of wannabe marketers. Jump into the niche and really learn what its all about. You will begin to see how it works, what the niche prospects want, and you will have the knowledge to put your newly found "authority" to work in whatever direction the niche takes you.

          If you shrink from this challenge, you may just be leaving an untapped goldmine due to your false assumptions about what the niche wants. Look at all the magazines, music videos, music downloads, and on and on that are being gobbled up by hungry fans. You just need to jump in and figure out how to position your business and offerings to appeal to some corner of the market.

          You don't have to have something that is universally liked. Rock & roll is a huge market and you could become a sub-niche superstar if you're willing to put yourself in the game and watch and learn.

          The best to you,

          Steve
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          • Profile picture of the author Craig Fenton
            Hi Steve:

            Thanks for the post and I hope you and family are having a good day.

            It is important I once again reiterate that a lot of what I am mentioning is not assumption. When you have been in an industry for so much of your life (disc-jockey, public speaker, writer, music archivist, author, etc.) you are exposed to statistics in the industry.

            Every stat shows the large division of people (I'll use 48+ as a base) of older and younger demographics. The people I target for the books and music projects are late 40's plus. The other day for the heck of it I asked 10 people that I know (regardless of their feeling of music) if they use Kindle or not.

            Eight of the ten are in a great place financially and could afford to do most things they desire. Not one of the ten uses Kindle. I asked about digital downloads and 1 of the 10 mentioned they would maybe once or twice a year pay to enjoy a movie on the internet.

            The other thing that is pertinent when talking about assumptions is risk/reward. Although the Kindle project would not be as long as the physical books it still is a lot of work. Remember you are not getting paid for previous track record. If you ask me to write liner notes for a band you manage you are paying knowing that you will get great work and somebody that is passionate about what they do. I don't get once cent unless the book sells and what if the time I am writing takes me away from something that was guaranteed income?

            Please don't get me wrong I would rather have it the other way where I am the only person in the world that wants physical products. If everyone else were open to both downlands and store bought products it would open so many avenues for me and others.

            Thanks again for being kind enough to give your thoughts.

            A great day to you always!
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        • Profile picture of the author Craig Fenton
          Hi Slate:

          Thanks for your reply.

          It is very important to understand that the term Rock & Roll Fan has to be broken down into segments/demographics. I can tell you this as somebody that was a radio disc-jockey for years, have written liner notes for a Rock & Roll Hall of Fame band, been a musical archivist, and written physical books.

          When we use the word Rock & Roll we are looking at something that was coined in 1955. It makes the art form 58 years old. The person that buys a CD and is 7 is a Rock & Roll fan as is the one that buys the CD at 56, 62, etc.

          However all studies have shown (as the thread eludes to) somebody especially late 40's onward is more comfortable with physical products. You can determine this by the statistics for digital downloads on music. The Beatles, Cream, Emerson, Lake, and Palmer fans are more likely to want the actual copy in their hand. The same as when they purchase a book or see a movie.

          Now the converse. Somebody that listens to a new band that is topping the charts in the year 2013 often could not care about artwork on the cover, liner notes, etc. They want instant gratification and thus love the idea of a download. In addition they often couldn't even tell you what a record album, 45 RPM, 8-Track, and or cassette is.

          My hope was it would not be this way. Not one person that I talked with in and out of the industry (these people gain or lose nothing if I create books or not) thought that Kindle would be the way to go based on the age of the audience that purchases my previous books and the ones that would buy the projects I am thinking of creating.

          Thanks again for posting. It is very much appreciated that you are taking the time to read the thread.

          Have the best of days!
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          • Profile picture of the author jerryp
            Originally Posted by Craig Fenton View Post

            Hi Slate:

            Thanks for your reply.

            It is very important to understand that the term Rock & Roll Fan has to be broken down into segments/demographics. I can tell you this as somebody that was a radio disc-jockey for years, have written liner notes for a Rock & Roll Hall of Fame band, been a musical archivist, and written physical books.

            When we use the word Rock & Roll we are looking at something that was coined in 1955. It makes the art form 58 years old. The person that buys a CD and is 7 is a Rock & Roll fan as is the one that buys the CD at 56, 62, etc.

            However all studies have shown (as the thread eludes to) somebody especially late 40's onward is more comfortable with physical products. You can determine this by the statistics for digital downloads on music. The Beatles, Cream, Emerson, Lake, and Palmer fans are more likely to want the actual copy in their hand. The same as when they purchase a book or see a movie.

            Now the converse. Somebody that listens to a new band that is topping the charts in the year 2013 often could not care about artwork on the cover, liner notes, etc. They want instant gratification and thus love the idea of a download. In addition they often couldn't even tell you what a record album, 45 RPM, 8-Track, and or cassette is.

            My hope was it would not be this way. Not one person that I talked with in and out of the industry (these people gain or lose nothing if I create books or not) thought that Kindle would be the way to go based on the age of the audience that purchases my previous books and the ones that would buy the projects I am thinking of creating.

            Thanks again for posting. It is very much appreciated that you are taking the time to read the thread.

            Have the best of days!
            I say "Just do it!" Don't fail through analysis paralysis. I was going to write in a kindle niche that was hot a couple of months ago but decided against it. Now I checked that niche again and it's dead. Who knows?

            I'm 65 and have played in rock bands most of my life. I have no problems with digital music(although the sound quality is crap) and I own a Kindle. There is a huge audience out there and I say go for it. Best of luck,

            Jerry
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            • Profile picture of the author Craig Fenton
              Hi Jerry:

              Thanks for response.

              Once again it is important to separate analysis paralysis and proven statistics.

              We could use this in any avenue of society. Please understand the time/money factor. You don't get paid for speculation. If you spend 2 weeks, 2 months, 2 years on something and it doesn't pan out you did lose out on projects that could have been guaranteed.

              I can tell you having been in the industry on and off for so much of my life you get a pretty good pulse.

              Have an amazing day!
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              • Profile picture of the author jerryp
                Originally Posted by Craig Fenton View Post

                Hi Jerry:

                Thanks for response.

                Once again it is important to separate analysis paralysis and proven statistics.

                We could use this in any avenue of society. Please understand the time/money factor. You don't get paid for speculation. If you spend 2 weeks, 2 months, 2 years on something and it doesn't pan out you did lose out on projects that could have been guaranteed.

                I can tell you having been in the industry on and off for so much of my life you get a pretty good pulse.

                Have an amazing day!
                How about a few short niche books having to do with something specific in the rock world just to test the water. It doesn't take much time to write 5-10,000 words. It costs almost nothing to publish Kindle books. These "magnet books" could be used to support a larger book coming later if they build an audience. I don't think there is ever a guarantee of success in publishing. Anyhow best to you,

                Jerry
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  • Profile picture of the author Akogo
    You say you have or don't have the books already written? Anyway, have you considered that Kindle ebooks can be read on PC via software download (and probably Mac too I believe) not just on the Kindle device only? Then there is CreateSpace (also an Amazon.com) company that creates the physical product, CD or physical books made on demand whenever a customer orders then mails it to them. https://www.createspace.com/
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    • Profile picture of the author Craig Fenton
      Hi Akogo:

      Thanks for reply.

      If you study the demographic that I aim for the issue is not that people can read the book on Kindle or computers but they want a physical product.

      Create Space would offer an actual book (physical copy) to customers but when you are writing for that market it is different. The physical book would contain a lot more pages and there would be greater initial expense (cost of securing photos).

      The Kindle book if the logistics allow can be shorter and sold for a price point that is substantially less.

      Have a great day!
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