Is this SPAM?

[daelx]

I have an email I want to send individually to a few people that are Real Estate Agents. I see their property listed for sale and I think they could use a tool I have to help sell these properties.

So if I send a Real Estate Agent that has a listing a one time email about my product and how it could help them sell their listing... is this spam?

The email would be something like this:

Hi Jim,

I noticed your listing on 123 anywhere street and my widget would be perfect to help you sell it. I want to offer you a $25 discount off our normal price to help you get this sold.... etc. etc.

What do you think?

Does anyone have a link to spam rules... I certainly don't want to violate them.

Thanks,

[megaresp]

Originally Posted by daelx

Does anyone have a link to spam rules... I certainly don't want to violate them.

Check out this site.

If I understand you correctly, you're emailing one person at a time, rather than entering their names into a database and bulk mailing them. This probably gets you past US and EU anti-spam legislation.

I'm no lawyer, and that's not legal advice. Don't do it without checking and making sure (see the above site).

[daelx]

Yep, Its one time to one person at a time. Definitely not bulk.

[Jillian Slack]

It's spam.

If you send them an unsolicited commercial email, it's spam.

Did they ask for you to contact them? No. Therefore, it's unsolicited.

Are you trying to sell them something? Yes. Therefore, it's commercial.

You would have better luck trying a different method with agents.

Try holding a workshop on how to increase their sales.

Speak to groups. You'll find plenty of agents in chambers of commerce.

Join local networking groups.

Set up a landing page to drive real estate agents to that site where you will explain how you will solve their problem.

[llfleming]

send a postcard

[JackKnight555]

This is spam because the receiver will not know or care how many others got the email. I am a salesman by trade, and the proper way to this would be to call him up first and ask if you could send him an email regarding your service. This almost always has a huge success rate, and allows for better response too!!!

[daelx]

Well if this is spam...

Then what about Telemarketing them? A one time call to a business? In this case Real Estate Agents.

Does this go against the Do Not Call Rules?

How do you directly reach someone these days? Ugh...

[daelx]

@JackKnight555 doesn't it go against the DNC to call them?

[Jillian Slack]

Do a search here on the forum to find posts about "offline gold" and the other methods of providing marketing services to local, offline businesses.

You can learn a lot from these methods that will translate nicely to what you're offering.

Your initial contact with these people needs to be done in a way that doesn't make them mad at you right off the bat.

Writing a great letter could do the trick.

The key is NOT telling them, "I'm so great. My product is so great. You need it. Call me."

The key is determining your target market, what their problem is, and how your product can solve that problem.

No, your target market is NOT every real estate agent in the world.

Your target market would be more like real estate agents who are having trouble breaking through their own sales records to hit the next level. (OK, that's just an example, but you get the idea. Break it on down. What problem does your tool solve for these people? Why would they want to use it? How will it help them?)

[Bud Fox]

Use a little better copy.

"I noticed your listing" screams junk...SPAM.

Offering to a discount in the initial sales letter..in the third line? C'mon.

Instead of telling them that you have a great tool - tell them what it is, and tell them how it benefits them. Talk in real estate agent-speak...they want to deposit a check, keep their clients from bothering them (not keep them happy), etc...

Be good.

[Troy_Phillips]

Just call them up . All they can do is yes, no, hang up

[daelx]

Are you sure you can just call them... What about the Do Not Call rules for telemarketing?

[Troy_Phillips]

Originally Posted by daelx

Are you sure you can just call them... What about the Do Not Call rules for telemarketing?

If what you have to sell is truly going to improve their situation I can almost guarantee you they will not complain

[j hogan]

Just put it in a brochure and send it by post. I have an offline business and I tend to ignore just about anything that comes by email trying to sell me something, but if I get a brochure or a letter about a service or product for my business I take it more seriously and check it out. it just appears more professional in the offline world if the first approach is not by email.
Just a thought, could you place a small ad in a property development publication?

[Kay King]

The DNC list is usually individuals - not businesses. However, I don't think you'd get interest calling agents.

I'd approach the broker and if you can sell him on the idea of the usefulness of your product, perhaps he will allow you 10-15 minutes to present it to the sales agents in a weekly meeting.

kay

[dangmyun]

Yes, It is

Check their website address,

If that is nothing relate to program they are promoting to,

It's Considered to be a SCAM


Good luck to you,

Happy day~^^

[AaronJones]

Originally Posted by daelx

I have an email I want to send individually to a few people that are Real Estate Agents. I see their property listed for sale and I think they could use a tool I have to help sell these properties.

So if I send a Real Estate Agent that has a listing a one time email about my product and how it could help them sell their listing... is this spam?

The email would be something like this:

Hi Jim,

I noticed your listing on 123 anywhere street and my widget would be perfect to help you sell it. I want to offer you a $25 discount off our normal price to help you get this sold.... etc. etc.

What do you think?

Does anyone have a link to spam rules... I certainly don't want to violate them.

Thanks,

You don't have to send them a link, and a sales message.

Just introduce yourself, why you are contacting them and ask permission to send them some sales info. Include your phone number under your name. They will either ignore you or reply and ask you to send it over...

Aaron

[paikus]

It's spam!!
called them and I think there're no response.

[Paul Myers]

Jillian,

It's spam.

If you send them an unsolicited commercial email, it's spam.

No, it is not. It may be treated as such by the recipient, who doesn't know how many copies are sent, but it's not spam. Specifically because it's not bulk.

That said, a phone call may be a better approach.


Paul

[melanied]

From the perspective of someone who used to be in the position of vetting these kinds of offers , it's better to send something in the mail or call. Offers that arrive by email have a shady connotation, deserved or not.

[DerrickMarkotter]

To my mind, there are two ways to look at a commercial email message - the legal way and the social way.

Legally speaking, unsolicited commercial emails have to comply with the CAN-SPAM Act (if they're sent from the US). This means that there are a couple of not-very-onerous rules to obey - identify the message as an advertisement, include an opt-out mechanism and include a physical postal address, for example.

The social rules are much more complicated. They depend entirely on the perceptions of the recipient.

Whether someone sees a commercial message as spam depends on what mood they're in, how much of a spam problem they have, what they had for breakfast...

In this case, I would try to start a relationship. Ask a question about their listing, or about their advertising, or about their website. Don't mention your product until you can do so in a natural way.

[ken_p]

i think your opening statement is giving it away. it is spam. i would rather give them a call, or send a snail mail. you will get a better response in that way.

[winebuddy]

Why don't you send them an email asking for more details on the property or a property they have listed? In other words, start a conversation.

At the bottom of your emails - put a link to your "tool"

[yezbick99]

Originally Posted by daelx

Yep, Its one time to one person at a time. Definitely not bulk.

Agreed. If you are writing one at a time. It is a question not spam. Key is how do you proove that it is not if someone turns you in?

[daelx]

Actually I found out it is not SPAM... but you're right whether it appears to the receiver as SPAM is another question. I guess it depends on how I write the email and what I'm offering.

Here's what I found:
What the Law Requires

Here's a rundown of the law's main provisions:

* It bans false or misleading header information. Your email's "From," "To," and routing information – including the originating domain name and email address – must be accurate and identify the person who initiated the email.

* It prohibits deceptive subject lines. The subject line cannot mislead the recipient about the contents or subject matter of the message.

* It requires that your email give recipients an opt-out method. You must provide a return email address or another Internet-based response mechanism that allows a recipient to ask you not to send future email messages to that email address, and you must honor the requests. You may create a "menu" of choices to allow a recipient to opt out of certain types of messages, but you must include the option to end any commercial messages from the sender.

Any opt-out mechanism you offer must be able to process opt-out requests for at least 30 days after you send your commercial email. When you receive an opt-out request, the law gives you 10 business days to stop sending email to the requestor's email address. You cannot help another entity send email to that address, or have another entity send email on your behalf to that address. Finally, it's illegal for you to sell or transfer the email addresses of people who choose not to receive your email, even in the form of a mailing list, unless you transfer the addresses so another entity can comply with the law.

* It requires that commercial email be identified as an advertisement and include the sender's valid physical postal address. Your message must contain clear and conspicuous notice that the message is an advertisement or solicitation and that the recipient can opt out of receiving more commercial email from you. It also must include your valid physical postal address.

[ostrich99]

Originally Posted by Kay King

I'd approach the broker and if you can sell him on the idea of the usefulness of your product, perhaps he will allow you 10-15 minutes to present it to the sales agents in a weekly meeting.

I would suggest this tactic. My wife stages homes and the brokers are usually happy to have you present during a sales lunch.

Usually they do ask you to provide some food or refreshments though.

Ostrich99

[daelx]

@ostrich99 The problem is... I only want to sell it to one or two agent per market. The appeal is no one else is doing this and it will help them get more listings.

So, doing a sales launch or speaking for 15 minutes wouldn't really be great here. I want to pick a couple agents in each market and let them know about this offer.

I can't really travel all over the country giving the presentation.

[seasoned]

Originally Posted by Jillian Slack

It's spam.

If you send them an unsolicited commercial email, it's spam.

Did they ask for you to contact them? No. Therefore, it's unsolicited.

Are you trying to sell them something? Yes. Therefore, it's commercial.

You would have better luck trying a different method with agents.

Try holding a workshop on how to increase their sales.

Speak to groups. You'll find plenty of agents in chambers of commerce.

Join local networking groups.

Set up a landing page to drive real estate agents to that site where you will explain how you will solve their problem.

^^^^^^^^^^^ TRUE!

Just to expand on what jillian said....
Do you REALLY think the US would see it as OK to email the perhaps 7 BILLION people on the planet if you do it just once!?!? Besides, how can they be sure it will only be ONCE!?!? AND, if it does NOTHING, why even try it! If it did ANYTHING, why should they believe you would stop?

Steve

[seasoned]

Originally Posted by Troy_Phillips

Just call them up . All they can do is yes, no, hang up

OR REPORT YOU! If they are on the DNC, and the FTC wants to pursue it, the charge is $11,000 per occurance, last I knew.

Steve

[seasoned]

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

Jillian,No, it is not. It may be treated as such by the recipient, who doesn't know how many copies are sent, but it's not spam. Specifically because it's not bulk.

That said, a phone call may be a better approach.


Paul

SPAM is a term used to refer to an unsolicited email, and EASILY predates ANY laws written against it. It ALSO predates any real idea of bulk emailing. Whether that is against the law, etc... is another thing entirely. According to wikipedia, CANSPAM says spam does NOT have to be bulk. It's definition of spam IS pretty flimsy but, STILL, most email does NOT comply. Here is what IT says:

The bill permits e-mail marketers to send unsolicited commercial e-mail as long as it adheres to 3 basic types of compliance defined in the CAN-SPAM Act: unsubscribe, content and sending behavior compliance:


[edit] Unsubscribe compliance
A visible and operable unsubscribe mechanism is present in all emails.
Consumer opt-out requests are honored within 10 days.
Opt-out lists also known as suppression lists are only used for compliance purposes.

[edit] Content compliance
Accurate from lines (including "friendly froms")
Relevant subject lines (relative to offer in body content and not deceptive)
A legitimate physical address of the publisher and/or advertiser is present.
A label is present if the content is adult.

[edit] Sending behavior compliance
A message cannot be sent through an open relay
A message cannot be sent to a harvested email address
A message cannot contain a false header

Keep in mind that this is ONLY the US federal law. Other areas may have STRICTER laws. Last I knew, Virginia, and California had far tougher rules.

Steve

[Paul Myers]

Steve,

SPAM is a term used to refer to an unsolicited email, and EASILY predates ANY laws written against it.

If we go all the way back to the first use of the term for electronic communications, it referred to swamping of an IRC channel with repetitive use of the word 'spam' through the use of a bot.

Until the US government got into the act, no-one ever made 'commercial' a requirement. It was specifically used, in the context of email, to include any and all unsolicited bulk email. Not bulk, not spam. The 'commercial' aspect was used by the US government because of concerns about First Amendment challenges over the idea of pre-empting speech that is more protected than commercial speech in this country.

Most ISPs don't care if it's commercial, as long as it's bulk and unsolicited. They'll nuke you for religious or political spam just as quickly. And their right to do that is protected by law in this country.

While you're busy saying things that fit neither the context nor the intent of the discussion, do me a favor: Show me where the word 'spam' is defined in CAN-SPAM. Please. I would love to see that, since I've read the Act repeatedly and can't find that little snippet that so many people claim is there.

CAN-SPAM does not regulate only unsolicited email, by the way. It regulates ALL commercial bulk email, and some one-to-one business correspondence. And, like all US law, it's only a local ordinance.


Paul

[seasoned]

Actually, US law is more than an ordinance. I don't recall the FULL status now, since it doesn't affect me AT ALL, but it was once(probably still is) LEGAL to deal with Marijuana in California, at least to a degree. They got a LOT of heat from the US, because it is ILLEGAL in the US. Granted, that is as hard as prohibition of alcohol, which the constitution declares as ILLEGAL(18th amendment), AND LEGAL(21st amendment)! So the laws against marijuana include certain limits. I believe it is generally less than an ounce that is OK.

And YEAH, I removed commercial from my statement, and that is also indicated in your quote. And YEAH, SPAM TECHNICALLY refers to the "swamping". So it refers to more than email. It CAN really BOG DOWN a service and THAT could be classified as a DoS, which is also illegal. If done on purpose, it CAN be prosecuted harshly.

Paul,

It describes what is allowed. It is called canSPAM. So it basically says spam is "unsolicited commercial e-mail". It DOES, however, say it allows it as long as it is done honestly, provides the recipient control, and allows easy tracking. Of course, a LOT of spam provides NONE of that. HECK, I have a server that is CONSTANTLY updated by cpanel and STILL someone found a STUPID security hole in the email software, and used my system as an open relay. THAT ALONE violated the:

A message cannot be sent through an open relay
A message cannot contain a false header

requirements above. I couldn't track it because they violated:

A visible and operable unsubscribe mechanism is present in all emails.
Consumer opt-out requests are honored within 10 days.
Opt-out lists also known as suppression lists are only used for compliance purposes.
Accurate from lines (including "friendly froms")
A legitimate physical address of the publisher and/or advertiser is present.

The canspam should have also made it a FELONY to not allow a customer to get log information for their server, when it is used for an open relay. ISPs just DON'T care. I swear, the next time that happens, I will just shut everything down, and tell them to sue me. I'm sure the judge would love to hear the case.

Steve

[Paul Myers]

Steve,

In the context of a global medium, all US law is merely local ordinance. As for marijuana laws, they vary from state to state. Talking about "general" terms is dangerous for people who don't know to look at the specifics.

Nonetheless, it does not give any definition of spam. None. And, despite what many people seem to think, it does not make the sending of spam illegal.

More precisely, CAN-SPAM defines some things that are NOT allowed, within certain well-defined parameters. It does not cover every aspect of what is or is not allowed. And it's a long way from the only legislation in the US that affects the sending of commercial email. Laws concerning money laundering, libel, truth in advertising and much more hold some sway in it as well.


Paul

[gotteeth]

Based on your description...absolutely not.

You're just marketing, you're offering a specific product to it's targeted audience.

For me...spam is all those emails I get about Viagra (not that I need it man!).

Cheers!

[Martin Luxton]

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

Steve,

Nonetheless, it does not give any definition of spam. None. And, despite what many people seem to think, it does not make the sending of spam illegal.

Paul

Paul,

So what the OP is talking about is

Spam Lite™ ?

Martin

[Paul Myers]

Martin,

So what the OP is talking about is

Spam Lite™ ?

Ummm... Not the phrase I'd choose, but it could fit, actually.

How'd you get the superscript???


Paul

[Martin Luxton]

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

How'd you get the superscript???


Paul

Paul,

You expect me to give you the most closely guarded secret in IM when I could sell it as a WSO for 50 gazillion dollars?

OK, to celebrate my 1,589th post, I'll tell you.

BIG DRUM ROLL . . .



Copy and paste from MS Office

Martin

[Paul Myers]

You expect me to give you the most closely guarded secret in IM when I could sell it as a WSO for 50 gazillion dollars?

OK, to celebrate my 1,589th post, I'll tell you.

BIG DRUM ROLL . . .



Copy and paste from MS Office

ooof ... some things are so simple ...

Tanks!


Paul

[mikemcmillan]

I don't know what your "widget" is, but it seems kind of like you are removing the scalability function by saying you only want to send your message to a few Realtors in a market. I guess I don't understand the marketing theory your discussing.

I'd use direct mail and send out sales letters addressed to the owner/broker of each office in your area. You could start small with a few dozen letters and if you got any response then scale it up to all of them.

You could find mailing list brokers or compilers who could provide you with peel & stick labels in zip order for any part or all parts of the country. If your sales indicated potential, you could scale up dramatically. You could get a bulk mailing permit and pay a 3rd class imprint fee and drastically cut your postage costs on large mailings, although the mail has to be sorted by sip and bundled appropriately.

You can find mailing list brokers online, or get a copy of LMP (Literary Marketplace) at your public library. You can find brokers who can get you lists in any niche at a reasonable cost.

I'm just trying to think big for you. Of course I don't know the cost of your product, but it seems you are thinking too small to make a killing with your widget. But I hope you do make a killing. Good luck.

[daelx]

@mikemcmillian... I don't want to disclose my widget. But it's an easy sale especially if no-one else is doing it in their market. Priced at below $30 per listing... It's an affordable thing for them to try.

I used to sell something similar in the late 90's via fax and I had a tremendous response. Now that faxes have been eliminated as a marketing tool, I thought an individual email. Carefully chosen would be the best way to market my widget.

Thanks everyone for the advice.

But as far as I can tell, I'm not going to get fined for my emails.