Is it Legal to Sell a Swipe File?

[DooBoy]

Dear Marketer,

I'd like to know if it's 100% Legal to Sell a Swipe File...

I explain you.

I collected more than 1000 squeeze pages and Sales Letter pages.
And i know that a lot of peoples will be interested to have it...
...So i'd like sell it.

But I don't know if it's Legal to sell it...
Maybe you know if it is...or you know a way Legal to sell it.

Can you help me?

Thanks a lot.

[Alexa Smith]

Interesting question. Kind of "copyrighting" rather than "copywriting".

I'm no lawyer (and this is one of those questions that could even vary from country because for all that people go on about "international copyright law", some of it isn't really international at all, I understand), but my suspicion is that it ought not to be any more illegal than selling books you've bought from Amazon to a third party would be. Collecting together and selling previously published work isn't a breach of copyright, is it? If the purchaser subsequently uses it for illegal purposes, that would be a different matter, I suppose.

Your best bet is for someone who (unlike me) actually knows the answer to reply!

[Harry Behrens]

I don't know the definite right answer either, sorry, but I can tell you that over the years I've seen many 'swipefiles' being sold and offered as bonuses from different types of products. It would have never occurred to me that it could be illegal from the frequency that it's done... but definitely get an answer from a lawyer in your area.

[LB]

Selling a copy of a copyrighted work is illegal under copyright laws in the manner you speak. Citing portions of a certain work may fall under fair use but selling an entire sales letter would not.

For example, I can sell a CD with music on it (assuming I legally purchased the original CD) but I could not make 400 copies of the songs on that CD and sell copies of the songs.

But again, talk to a lawyer...

[JVManna]

I don't know of many marketers whose sales letters and other content to attract customers is licensed under Creative Commons. If it was, then it's totally fine by the license cited at creativecommons.org.

(Note: Would be pretty cool if a marketer DID license their sales letters at CC.)

I agree with LB, you probably ought to consult with a lawyer who is experienced with intellectual property. Fair Use is determined by four primary factors:

1. The Transformative Factor: The Purpose and Character of Your Use
2. The Nature of the Copyrighted Work
3. The Amount and Substantiality of the Portion Taken
4. The Effect of the Use Upon the Potential Market

More details on these factors are discussed at Stanford:
fairuse.stanford.edu/Copyright_and_Fair_Use_Overview/chapter9/9-b.html

It's probably a better idea to get permission from various marketers to use their content, rather that defending the use of content without permission. Just my opinion.

~Joe

[Loren Woirhaye]

No - unless the material is out-of-copyright or you
own/wrote it yourself.

A few days ago a guy came to the forum offering
to share a big swipe file - but it turns out he was
wanting to sell swipes to salesletters of Clayton
Makepeace, Carlton, Bencivenga, etc... - these
guys have lawyers who could get your hosting
shut down in a NewYork minute, after all, they
include swipes in their courses and charge a pretty
penny for them.

Here's an interesting riff on the idea however, and
I fell for it once myself. If the information is freely
available you can just set yourself up as a gatekeeper
and make a product that tells where to get the
information, basically creating a research business
for yourself.

There is a tremendous amount of direct marketing
material available in the Newspaper Archive for
example. You can download the information, but
you cannot sell it. What you CAN do is make a product
that discloses the specific locations of the ads
in the Archive, and sell that.

If you set up a membership site you can link to salesletters
as exhibits - as long as they are hosted on the copyright-holder's
server. You could actually do well with this by analyzing
the salesletters and sharing valuable insights - but
since they aren't your intellectual property you can
review them as a book reviewer does, but you may not
republish them for your own profit without permission.

[Kunle Olomofe]

Originally Posted by Loren Woirhaye

No - unless the material is out-of-copyright or you
own/wrote it yourself.


If you set up a membership site you can link to salesletters
as exhibits - as long as they are hosted on the copyright-holder's
server. You could actually do well with this by analyzing
the salesletters and sharing valuable insights - but
since they aren't your intellectual property you can
review them as a book reviewer does, but you may not
republish them for your own profit without permission.

Loren that's a very solid post and idea, thanks for that mate.

[Raydal]

On a similar note I wrote an article about how to use swipe
files and EA rejected the article on the grounds that I
used the word the word "swipe" I guess. As far as they
were concerned I was teaching how to COPY other
people's work.

I idea of using swipe files is almost unique to copywriting
within the writing market. So it is always tricky on how
far you go in using someone else's written work.

-Ray Edwards

[AndrewCavanagh]

If you sell the writing of other people you are infringing on their legal copyright unless you have written permission.

So yes it is illegal without written permission.

Kindest regards,
Andrew Cavanagh

[mikemcmillan]

Alexa (above) said "Collecting together and selling previously published work isn't a breach of copyright, is it?"

I've read a few of your other posts Alexa and enjoyed them--so I'm not slamming your comment, but I strongly disagree with your statement (question). Creating a derivative work of a previously published work is protected under Title 17 of the U.S. Code. Simply compiling works of others into a book of your own is infringing upon the rights of the original publishers (with certain exceptions).

Relatively small excerpts of works might fall under the "fair use" doctrine if used for educational purposes or to critique the work just as a book critic might do when reviewing a publication. But taking an entire work, whatever it is, would (could) get you in trouble. Here is a section from Title 17 relating to this. It can be found at: U.S. Copyright Office - Copyright Law: Chapter 1

§ 103. Subject matter of copyright: Compilations and derivative works (a) The subject matter of copyright as specified by section 102 includes compilations and derivative works, but protection for a work employing preexisting material in which copyright subsists does not extend to any part of the work in which such material has been used unlawfully.

§ 106. Exclusive rights in copyrighted works38 Subject to sections 107 through 122, the owner of copyright under this title has the exclusive rights to do and to authorize any of the following:
(1) to reproduce the copyrighted work in copies or phonorecords;
(2) to prepare derivative works based upon the copyrighted work;

§ 107. Limitations on exclusive rights: Fair use40
Notwithstanding the provisions of sections 106 and 106A, the fair use of a copyrighted work, including such use by reproduction in copies or phonorecords or by any other means specified by that section, for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright. In determining whether the use made of a work in any particular case is a fair use the factors to be considered shall include —
(1) the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes;
(2) the nature of the copyrighted work;
(3) the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole; and
(4) the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work.

Again, Alexa, I'm not criticizing you personally--I would never do that--but I think there is a lot of confusion on this topic and I thought others might benefit from some of the above info.

[artwebster]

If you look at the rules relating to copywrite (copyright) you will discover that copying the files is, in itself, not allowed but copying small segments can be permissible.

[Scott Murdaugh]

This is an interesting question...

Here's one... I bought (can't remember where, maybe here?) a Halbert swipe file once... I can't remember the guy who did it but he had a bunch of old Halbert ads, and included them as PDF's, and then had PDF's where he'd gone through and made comments on the ads.

I've also purchased Eugene Swartz, Mel Martin and quite a few other swipe files...

So, how do these guys get the rights to sell this stuff? Or am I an idiot and paying for pirated/copyrighted work?

Thanks,

-Scott

[Matt Jutras]

I'm no lawyer, so I won't bother attempting to answer your question...especially since it was answered in the copywriting section where you originally asked it...

But I'll give you something else to chew on...

If your "swipe file" only contains randomly cobbled together sales pages...it likely isn't worth squat...

Because a swipe file is only valuable if it contains sales letters that have proven to work.

[DooBoy]

Thanks everybody!
It was very Helpfull!

So, Now I have to make another product

[webwyn]

I'll give you credit DooBoy. You went from asking what I thought was an odd (using soft language here now) question, to listening to the general advice of the posters and seemingly deciding to be more prudent.

I think if you had of gone ahead with the idea, likely a portion of your sales would have come from those potentially seeking to see if their pages were in your list, and that may have been used against you in any copyright action.

[Waterways2k8]

You made a good decision DooBoy and total respect for you. You had a great idea and I've had letters promoting products based on sales letters that do work. Plus they are already similar products out there too in IM. The only difference is that they have gain permission from the copywriter, the author or the other party that is involved, or they have written it all themselves or had it ghost written.

As they say "If In Doubt, Don't Do It!

Better to be safe that sorry - best wishes for your new product.