Are sales page Opt Ins decreasing your affiliate commission?

15 years ago

Clickbank and all the other major affiliate systems track your referrals via cookie and IP address (possibly other ways too). So it doesn't matter if they sign up and then come back days or even weeks later. You'll still get credit for it.

The only way this can harm you is if the seller directs them to a page that changes the cookie but you can easily make sure such things aren't happening by signing up for the mailing list yourself.

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Saul'

15 years ago

Are you getting paid for the leads? That will answer the question.

If I'm selling the product, that's all I want the prospect to do on the sales page - I'm not going to give them free leads, thank you very much.

Another thing is if those leads are permanently marked with your id in their list so that anything they sell is credited to you.

In any case, it's a game changer.

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Saul

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Waterways2k8

15 years ago

Hi

Interesting point here about referrall and opt in - and yes although you may seem your out of the loop, normally cookies are stored on a PC for several days, unless the potential buyer is crafty and decide to clear all his history, private date, cookies stored on his/her pc.

But yes, the opt-in yourself method by Senior Warrior Member Andy's is certainly a good way of checking and if you do find or suspect something fishy is going on, you can always contact Clickbank support to see if they can investigate further or find out more.

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The Pension Guy

15 years ago

Another option would be (when you are sure the cookies last anyway!) to suggest to the vendor to use an opt-in form that "disapperas" after the subscription - i.e. it does the subscription in the background - AND doesn't take the buyer away from the sales page.

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jasonl70

15 years ago

Clickbank's cookies last 60 days, so you have nothing to worry about.

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-Jason

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Saul' 15 years ago

Originally Posted by jasonl70

Clickbank's cookies last 60 days, so you have nothing to worry about.

I have something to worry about...

What if they find the site at work and decide to buy later at home?

What if the email program opens the link in a different browser than the one user found the site with?

As an affiliate I will not promote anything with unnecessary distractions and possible leakages. The customer I send is my customer and I won't tolerate them being stolen from me. If they go to someone's list, I must be credited for that and any future actions they make. That's just common business sense.
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- jasonl70 15 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Saul'
  
  I have something to worry about...
  
  What if they find the site at work and decide to buy later at home?
  
  I'm thinking most people who opt-in are sitting on the fence (ie, not yet convinced to buy), so it shouldn't really be problem when compared to how many extra sales it can generate that would have otherwise been lost. That's just my thoughts on it though...
  
  Thanks
  
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  -Jason
  
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gotteeth

15 years ago

Thanks for all the input.

I was cruising along my merry way yesterday and the question that started my thread came to me and wouldn't let go

I knew about the cookies being stored but I was concerned that I was just handing over free traffic to a seller. One thought was...what if they opt in, read the material and decide to buy the product from a link contained in the information sent to the new subscriber...would that link supercede mine at Clickbank.

Once again, Thanks for the input.

Ps We all need a good laugh in our day, so as way of saying thanks...if you like British humor (not sure what that means really. I always think of Monty Python)...go to you tube and type in Al Murray. This guy is really funny. Have a laugh and forget about what ails ya'

Cheers!

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jasonl70

15 years ago

Originally Posted by gotteeth

One thought was...what if they opt in, read the material and decide to buy the product from a link contained in the information sent to the new subscriber...would that link supercede mine at Clickbank.

this would only be a problem if they send their own affiliate links in the emails. I have actually caught a vendor doing this once.

Another thing to look out for: are the links in their emails even going to the CB product? For instance, they could send them to a different sales page that uses paypal.

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Saul'

15 years ago

It would generate extra sales for the seller no doubt about it, but if those points are true those sales will not be credited to me as an affiliate.

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Saul

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jasonl70 15 years ago

Originally Posted by Saul'

It would generate extra sales for the seller no doubt about it, but if those points are true those sales will not be credited to me as an affiliate.

you'll probably miss some sales due to cookie problems, but that should still be overcome by the additional sales it generates - sales that you never would have had.

I edited out some of my 'wandering' thoughts on this from my earlier post, but the jist of them were that this is one reason I'm moving towards my own products - I'll always get credit for the sale
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Saul'

15 years ago

Still that makes quite a problem to me... it's a matter of principle, if I send them a lead, there's no place for any losses, rare or not. Not to mention the fact that they can and will make a number of OTO's, upsells, downsells, etc. that I would not be credited for - and we're talking about my customers.

So what I'm saying is that to me, if there's an opt-in form, the leads have to have my id permanently in the list and I have to be credit for any sales to my customers. That or no opt-in forms (with some exceptions).

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Saul

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Harvey Segal

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Saul'

Still that makes quite a problem to me... it's a matter of principle, if I send them a lead, there's no place for any losses, rare or not.

So what I'm saying is that to me, if there's an opt-in form, the leads have to have my id permanently in the list and I have to be credit for any sales to my customers.

But you have the same problem even if there is no opt-in form.

If a customer decides to purchase later and has removed his
cookies or uses a different browser or different computer
you will not be credited.

Harvey

.

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gotteeth

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Harvey.Segal

But you have the same problem even if there is no opt-in form.

If a customer decides to purchase later and has removed his
cookies or uses a different browser or different computer
you will not be credited.

Harvey

.

Harvey,

You make a good point.

Here's the way I look at though. If I have 3 problems...

1. they can delete the cookie as you mention

2. They get distracted by immediately opting in and going to their inbox to confirm, making a purchase sometime later from a link inside information that's been sent from the product owner

3. The opt in distracts them from a purchase because they opt in and leave the page.

Out of those problems, which ones do I have a chance of eliminating? I have a chance of controlling the opt in issue, In fact, I contacted the owner of the product that prompted this thread. I asked her for a separate sales page without the opt in and invited her to visit this thread to get an idea of the issue...and so she wouldn't think I was some loon

I can't do anything about the loss of a cookie so I won't sweat that issue.

Cheers!

Thanks
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JohnHuizinga

15 years ago

Originally Posted by gotteeth

Harvey,

You make a good point.

Here's the way I look at though. If I have 3 problems...

1. they can delete the cookie as you mention

2. They get distracted by immediately opting in and going to their inbox to confirm, making a purchase sometime later from a link inside information that's been sent from the product owner

3. The opt in distracts them from a purchase because they opt in and leave the page.

Cheers!

I have a similar worry with a product I'm promoting on Clickback. Especially with the last point.
The main reason it worries me is because I've opted in to their list multiple times and have never gotten an email from them.
So I could see a prospect being interested from my presell and clicking to the salepage and then seeing an opportunity to check out what these people have to offer without paying for it right away. They opt in and then go on with their day expecting to get an email soon... and it never arrives and the whole thing slips their mind and there goes my sale.

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Terry Hatfield 15 years ago

The solution is simple.

You promote the product, and if you are not making the amount of money you want you drop them.
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Saul'

15 years ago

Yes I do, but why provide extra escape points?

Did anyone do any testing on this? Does an opt-in form on a sales page increase conversions for an affiliate who is tracked only by a cookie?

If it does increase your commissions, so be it. But to me, the seller is still getting way more value from my customers than I get paid for.

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Saul

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gotteeth

15 years ago

Just checked back in here. Man...I'm glad I asked this question

Two points of interest are evolving here for me.

1. As an affiliate, am I going to lose a customer/money when a sales page has an opt in? Especially one that's prominently displayed.

2. If the opt in can be considered a "leak" (and I believe it is), how much of a leak is it? Assuming it's a sales page with no advertising, just the opt in. I came across a sales page the other day that had adsense...above the fold! All that work, only to lose a customer to an adsense click.

If I was experienced in split testing I'd go after this...any takers

Cheers!

Thanks
1 reply

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jasonl70

15 years ago

Let's look at product 'pre-launches'.. all the JV's don't seem to have any problems sending traffic to video squeeze pages.

Originally Posted by Saul'

Still that makes quite a problem to me... it's a matter of principle, if I send them a lead, there's no place for any losses, rare or not. Not to mention the fact that they can and will make a number of OTO's, upsells, downsells, etc. that I would not be credited for - and we're talking about my customers.

So what I'm saying is that to me, if there's an opt-in form, the leads have to have my id permanently in the list and I have to be credit for any sales to my customers. That or no opt-in forms (with some exceptions).

again - you'll be getting credit for sales that would never have taken place if it wasn't for the opt-in form. If the opt-in form generates an additional 10 sales, then I can live with 1 or 2 of them falling through the cracks.

Plus, if we're talking CB, you'll get credit for backend sales if they are part of the same vendor CB account. I get them quite often from several of the vendors I promote.

Originally Posted by Saul'

Yes I do, but why provide extra escape points?

Did anyone do any testing on this? Does an opt-in form on a sales page increase conversions for an affiliate who is tracked only by a cookie?

If it does increase your commissions, so be it. But to me, the seller is still getting way more value from my customers than I get paid for.

If the vendor has an opt-in on their sales page, fill it out. Click on the links in thier follow up emails, and click on the pay buttons. If it's a CB check out page and your affiliate ID shows up, then you should see more sales because of it - not less.

Originally Posted by gotteeth

Just checked back in here. Man...I'm glad I asked this question

Two points of interest are evolving here for me.

1. As an affiliate, am I going to lose a customer/money when a sales page has an opt in? Especially one that's prominently displayed.

2. If the opt in can be considered a "leak" (and I believe it is), how much of a leak is it? Assuming it's a sales page with no advertising, just the opt in. I came across a sales page the other day that had adsense...above the fold! All that work, only to lose a customer to an adsense click.

If I was experienced in split testing I'd go after this...any takers

Cheers!

I've used adsense as a header on squeeze pages before - and my conversions (optin rate) did not drop at all. The only people clicking on the adsense were the people who were going to hit the back button. So it's not always the leak that people believe it to be.

Now, about an opt-in form being a leak: Opt-in forms increase sales - period. And if the affilate get's the commission, which is easily tested, then I WANT to see opt-in forms to the sites I send traffic to

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gotteeth

15 years ago

Originally Posted by jasonl70

Let's look at product 'pre-launches'.. all the JV's don't seem to have any problems sending traffic to video squeeze pages.

again - you'll be getting credit for sales that would never have taken place if it wasn't for the opt-in form. If the opt-in form generates an additional 10 sales, then I can live with 1 or 2 of them falling through the cracks.

Plus, if we're talking CB, you'll get credit for backend sales if they are part of the same vendor CB account. I get them quite often from several of the vendors I promote.

If the vendor has an opt-in on their sales page, fill it out. Click on the links in thier follow up emails, and click on the pay buttons. If it's a CB check out page and your affiliate ID shows up, then you should see more sales because of it - not less.

I've used adsense as a header on squeeze pages before - and my conversions (optin rate) did not drop at all. The only people clicking on the adsense were the people who were going to hit the back button. So it's not always the leak that people believe it to be.

Now, about an opt-in form being a leak: Opt-in forms increase sales - period. And if the affilate get's the commission, which is easily tested, then I WANT to see opt-in forms to the sites I send traffic to

Ok Jason...I'm convinced...I'm not going to worry about it.

I'm going home and have an adult beverage

Cheers!

Thanks

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Saul'

15 years ago

Originally Posted by jasonl70

Let's look at product 'pre-launches'.. all the JV's don't seem to have any problems sending traffic to video squeeze pages.

The whole purpose of the pre-launch squeeze page is to collect the leads. And if I'm an affiliate, my id goes to the list with the lead. If not, I'm out.

Originally Posted by jasonl70

again - you'll be getting credit for sales that would never have taken place if it wasn't for the opt-in form. If the opt-in form generates an additional 10 sales, then I can live with 1 or 2 of them falling through the cracks.

Plus, if we're talking CB, you'll get credit for backend sales if they are part of the same vendor CB account. I get them quite often from several of the vendors I promote.

Sorry, too many ifs.

Originally Posted by jasonl70

I've used adsense as a header on squeeze pages before - and my conversions (optin rate) did not drop at all. The only people clicking on the adsense were the people who were going to hit the back button. So it's not always the leak that people believe it to be.

Who is to say your sales wouldn't have increased without the adsense? Did you split-test?

Originally Posted by jasonl70

Now, about an opt-in form being a leak: Opt-in forms increase sales - period. And if the affilate get's the commission, which is easily tested, then I WANT to see opt-in forms to the sites I send traffic to

Yes, but it should be clear what's going on - no ifs, no buts. Will it increase the commission depends on the sales page, on the opt-in form, on the incentive for opt-in, etc. You can't just take a random sales page with an opt-in form and say the opt-in form increases sales for you as an affiliate. This is just my opinion but I will make sure every time what happens to my customers before I send them to someone - I have to know every step they make. And I'm not just being a control freak, they're making me money that way. Again, I consider it simply a good business sense, I want to get the best return possible for every customer I send to the vendor.

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Saul

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Tyrus Antas

15 years ago

On the other hand... sending them to a list might give the seller more time to create that relationship that can easily double conversions. As long as nothing shady is going on with different links being sent or different paying processors being used, I wouldn't have a problem with it.

Tyrus

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Revolves

15 years ago

There are some marketers who do use opt-in lists, but in their promotional emails, include your affiliate link. This guarantees that you'll get the commission you deserve. I don't know how many do it, or how hard it is to do, but I've seen some doing it.

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GuruGazette

15 years ago

You know, having an opt in on a sales pages is one of the dumbest copy killing strategies I've ever seen.

I've found myself on some amazing, engaging sales letters in the past. I get deeply absorbed and I'm actually reading every word. Then suddenly my focus is completely destroyed because of either a drop in, fly in, or smack dab in the middle of the page opt in form. Urg.

Why not offer the opt in as an exit strategy?

(Sorry this is a little off topic from the thread)

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Igor Kheifets

15 years ago

Hey Gotteeth,

opt in page increases conversions.
It is done so the person will get used to
saying yes to your offers.
Not only you catch his information in to your list,
but also you are preparing him for the purchase.

Igor

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Are sales page Opt Ins decreasing your affiliate commission?

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