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Guaranteed 100% money back guarantee! Buy Now!

by EmergencyMonkey
18 replies
I don't know what it is, but recently I feel I would have a real hard time offering a "Money-back guarantee" on an information product, especially a digital one. Does anyone else feel this way?

Why is it okay to pay for a digital product and have it your possession, yet ask for your money back? Sounds like theft to me. Why should you be able to read the information and absorb it, yet return it?

"I can take a dump in a box and mark it guaranteed, but all you're getting is a guaranteed piece of $!@#" ~ Tommy Boy
#100% #back #buy #guarantee #guaranteed #money
  • Profile picture of the author XponentSYS
    This has been debated to death if you search the forum. As an information product publisher for over a decade, here's my unwavering opinion...

    IF YOU DONT OFFER A REFUND WHEN SOMEONE WANTS ONE, THEY WILL GET IT ANYWAY.

    Whether or not you have a stated guarantee does not matter.

    The person wanting the refund is going to ask for it. If at this you say "sorry, no refunds" then they will simply contact their credit card company and spend the 2 minutes it takes to FILE A CHARGEBACK.

    The credit card company will then reverse the charge and issue the refund on your behalf.

    So in the end, the result (whether or not you have a MBG) is the same, except for ONE THING...

    Since YOU are not the one who issued the refund, instead a banks chargeback department did, this leaves a nice "black eye" on your merchant credit rating. What's more, if this happens too many times, you'll find yourself being stripped of the PRIVILEGE to accept credit cards at all.

    So let's recap..

    Dude want a REFUND on a $27.00 ebook..

    He asks for a refund > You DO IT > Your account is debited $27.00

    He asks for a refund > HIS BANK DOES IT > Your account is STILL debited $27 AND you have to pay CHARGE BACK FEES and RISK your ability to accept credit cards.

    Really.... is there even a debate?

    Given the above, a better way to play it is to offer a M G and use it to remove risk as a MARKETING TOOL.

    Refunders happen. Might as well embrace that fact, use it as a marketing tool and move on.
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    • Profile picture of the author EmergencyMonkey
      Originally Posted by XponentSYS View Post

      This has been debated to death if you search the forum. As an information product publisher for over a decade, here's my unwavering opinion...

      IF YOU DONT OFFER A REFUND WHEN SOMEONE WANTS ONE, THEY WILL GET IT ANYWAY.

      Whether or not you have a stated guarantee does not matter.

      The person wanting the refund is going to ask for it. If at this you say "sorry, no refunds" then they will simply contact their credit card company and spend the 2 minutes it takes to FILE A CHARGEBACK.

      The credit card company will then reverse the charge and issue the refund on your behalf.

      So in the end, the result (whether or not you have a MBG) is the same, except for ONE THING...

      Since YOU are not the one who issued the refund, instead a banks chargeback department did, this leaves a nice "black eye" on your merchant credit rating. What's more, if this happens too many times, you'll find yourself being stripped of the PRIVILEGE to accept credit cards at all.

      So let's recap..

      Dude want a REFUND on a $27.00 ebook..

      He asks for a refund > You DO IT > Your account is debited $27.00

      He asks for a refund > HIS BANK DOES IT > Your account is STILL debited $27 AND you have to pay CHARGE BACK FEES and RISK your ability to accept credit cards.

      Really.... is there even a debate?

      Given the above, a better way to play it is to offer a M G and use it to remove risk as a MARKETING TOOL.

      Refunders happen. Might as well embrace that fact, use it as a marketing tool and move on.
      I wasn't aware it was a heavily discussed topic but of course didn't think to "search" for it. I appreciate the comments and that makes complete sense.
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    • Profile picture of the author JoeRemington
      Originally Posted by XponentSYS View Post

      This has been debated to death if you search the forum. As an information product publisher for over a decade, here's my unwavering opinion...

      IF YOU DONT OFFER A REFUND WHEN SOMEONE WANTS ONE, THEY WILL GET IT ANYWAY.

      Whether or not you have a stated guarantee does not matter.

      The person wanting the refund is going to ask for it. If at this you say "sorry, no refunds" then they will simply contact their credit card company and spend the 2 minutes it takes to FILE A CHARGEBACK.

      The credit card company will then reverse the charge and issue the refund on your behalf.

      So in the end, the result (whether or not you have a MBG) is the same, except for ONE THING...

      Since YOU are not the one who issued the refund, instead a banks chargeback department did, this leaves a nice "black eye" on your merchant credit rating. What's more, if this happens too many times, you'll find yourself being stripped of the PRIVILEGE to accept credit cards at all.

      So let's recap..

      Dude want a REFUND on a $27.00 ebook..

      He asks for a refund > You DO IT > Your account is debited $27.00

      He asks for a refund > HIS BANK DOES IT > Your account is STILL debited $27 AND you have to pay CHARGE BACK FEES and RISK your ability to accept credit cards.

      Really.... is there even a debate?

      Given the above, a better way to play it is to offer a M G and use it to remove risk as a MARKETING TOOL.

      Refunders happen. Might as well embrace that fact, use it as a marketing tool and move on.
      Ben is absolutely correct and he laid it out very well.

      Refunds are a fact of life when selling products, or services. It doesn't matter whether it's online, offline, information, digital, or physical.

      I personally choose to think abundance, not lack. If someone wants a refund they get a refund regardless of whether they are scamming or taking advantage of the situation or not. If I'm offering quality then quality will come back to me in abundance. A few refunds will only hurt my pride, not the fact that I provided a wealth of quality in the form of my product and someone took advantage of my refund policy.

      It's digital information and in the end it technically costs me nothing but the knowledge that someone got it for free. I'll live!

      Make it a great day,
      Joe Remington
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  • Profile picture of the author tpw
    Refunds are part of the cost of doing business.

    But, it is not a fact that people will get the refund whether you want them to have it or not.

    If you state clearly your "no refund" policy on your sales page, PayPal will back you up.
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    • Profile picture of the author XponentSYS
      Originally Posted by tpw View Post

      Refunds are part of the cost of doing business.

      But, it is not a fact that people will get the refund whether you want them to have it or not.

      If you state clearly your "no refund" policy on your sales page, PayPal will back you up.
      True Bill, PayPal will back you up. It's my understanding though that by the time it gets to the point of having (even) a discussion with the merchant account provider, the damage is done.... EVEN IF YOU WIN THE CHARGEBACK.

      That has been MY EXPERIENCE anyway although NOT with PsyPal. My business has an actual merch acct using AUTH NET. As for PayPal, we use it here on the forum but really that's it. So, I may be incorrect on how PP handles charge backs.

      In any event, I stand by what I say.

      Just give the damn money back.

      For me, if I didn't give refunds and had to even devote a SECOND of my time fighting with some dipshit begging for his 7 bucks back through PayPals dispute resolution center, I'd be losing money fast because I only spend my time on stuff that makes me multiple hundreds of dollars.

      Reason #342 on why to give refunds.
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  • Profile picture of the author tpw
    Just because you can win a chargeback, doesn't mean you should always try.

    I only fight people who file disputes with PayPal, because disputes harm my reputation with PayPal.

    If they ask for refunds, without using the PayPal dispute mechanism, I process the refund promptly.
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    Bill Platt, Oklahoma USA, PlattPublishing.com
    Publish Coloring Books for Profit (WSOTD 7-30-2015)
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    • Profile picture of the author XponentSYS
      Originally Posted by tpw View Post

      Just because you can win a chargeback, doesn't mean you should always try.

      I only fight people who file disputes with PayPal, because disputes harm my reputation with PayPal.

      If they ask for refunds, without using the PayPal dispute mechanism, I process the refund promptly.
      Bill, right. Technicalities aside, you and I are on the same page.

      Just process the refund and move on. I learned this the hard way, BTW and I posted a thread or blog about it. I'll try to find it.

      I want to reiterate the fact that...

      IF WE ARE GOING TO REFUND ANYWAY... Let's use that fact as a marketing tool to REMOVE RISK with a stellar MBG.

      IMPROVE CONVERSIONS and make more sales so serial refunders and $7 refunders are so inconsequential we don't even bother posting about them.

      I'm at the point now where I don't even know who my refunders are. My assistant handles them, processes them, deletes them from all lists and black lists their email address from ever getting into our funnel again.

      The only exception to blacklisting is when there's a grievance because I screw up. When it's my fault, I personally handle it.

      Other than that, they're a waste of time and not worth a moment of my time.

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  • Profile picture of the author Mikaedi
    I don't have my own product as yet, but I can't understand how a refund can be enforced on a digital product..unless the buyer has been able to prove the purchase was not what he/she had paid for or is fraudulent.

    My understanding was that PayPal doesn't homour refunds for digital products anyway..it's common practice for many marketers to state that there is:
    NO REFUNDS FOR DIGITAL PRODUCTS

    Mikaedi
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    • Profile picture of the author tpw
      Originally Posted by Mikaedi View Post

      I don't have my own product as yet, but I can't understand how a refund can be enforced on a digital product..unless the buyer has been able to prove the purchase was not what he/she had paid for or is fraudulent.

      My understanding was that PayPal doesn't homour refunds for digital products anyway..it's common practice for many marketers to state that there is:
      NO REFUNDS FOR DIGITAL PRODUCTS

      Mikaedi

      Technically, PayPal does not force vendors to refund on digital products, however, PayPal does force a vendor to honor his/her stated refund policy, as does this forum.

      If someone says that they offer no refunds, then the only path the consumer has is to file a "dispute" and claim that the seller failed to deliver "as advertised."

      Most vendors fold when they see the PayPal Dispute. I don't. I fight all disputes, but honor refund requests.
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      Publish Coloring Books for Profit (WSOTD 7-30-2015)
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      • Profile picture of the author CliffUK
        I'm new to this IM game, but my understanding of good IM (in simplest terms) is this:

        1. You promote a quality product or service.
        2. You collect payment from a buyer, or an opt-in for more quality material.
        3. You upsell/downsell and market to that buyer/subscriber until they opt out.

        In this process, #3 is where the real money is to be made. You dont get to #3 unless you are successful at #2. You will be a lot less successful at #2 without an 'iron clad guarantee' to persuade those who aren't entirely sure to jump in. If success at #2 means you collect $27 and then have to give it back - thats still SUCCESS! You can then move on to #3.

        Does anyone agree?
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  • Profile picture of the author Joeferlaino
    I guess there's not much you can really do, I'd say it would be only fair if you clearly state that their is no refunds due to the nature of a product, just hate to give away valuable information like that.
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  • Profile picture of the author Joeferlaino
    If you build good trust and relationship with-in your list, maybe you might get less refund rate?
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    • Profile picture of the author tpw
      Originally Posted by Joeferlaino View Post

      If you build good trust and relationship with-in your list, maybe you might get less refund rate?

      Yes. Most of my products have less than 1% refund rate.
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  • Profile picture of the author EmergencyMonkey
    Thank you for all the comments!
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  • Profile picture of the author tristatemedia
    if you have enough confidence in your product...you will offer money back guarantee. do you know how much junk is peddled on this forum.
    there is also great stuff by good honest people.
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  • Profile picture of the author ChrisDouthit
    I do not agree that the customer can just file a chargeback and get their refund anyway. Sure this can happen sometimes, but it will be a small percentage, especially if the product fee is not large.

    Clickbank of course, customers can always get their money back. There are serial refunders here, so that is always at risk.

    PayPal does not give refunds for digital products even if the buyer wants one. Of course, if the customer paid with PayPal funds, that is the end of it. If they paid with credit card they can still file a chargeback, but they will likely lose if you keep good records. I have only had this happen a couple of times, I think just because the customer forgot what the purchased as they were still using my services. But I just supplied PayPal with IP address, order date, name, and confirmed email and I won. I also email the customer asking them why they filed a chargeback. It may be an error so getting a dialog going is a good step.

    Bitcoin is also new and only getting more popular. If you think Bitcoin is going away you better think again. It is actually a very good service especially for vendors. You can collect fees from anywhere in the world and all sales are final. You can also have your customer pay you in bitcoin but receive USD or your countries currency right at the point of sale. That is a simultaneous conversion. If you want to refund your customer you still can, you would just have to send the money back.

    With all that said, I would still offer a refund on all digital products sold. The bottom line is yes, you will have people order from you and ask for a refund even if they love your product just because they can. However, you will make more sales and the extra sales you make will be larger than the bogus refunds.

    How much time you give your customer is up to you, I usually do a longer refund policy for digital products like ebook or videos and shorter for services.
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    • Profile picture of the author tpw
      Originally Posted by ChrisDouthit View Post

      If they paid with credit card they can still file a chargeback, but they will likely lose if you keep good records. I have only had this happen a couple of times, I think just because the customer forgot what the purchased as they were still using my services. But I just supplied PayPal with IP address, order date, name, and confirmed email and I won. I also email the customer asking them why they filed a chargeback. It may be an error so getting a dialog going is a good step.

      I have only "lost" one dispute/chargeback with PayPal as a vendor in 13 years, and that was with a service in 2007.
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      Publish Coloring Books for Profit (WSOTD 7-30-2015)
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  • Profile picture of the author drewfioravanti
    The purpose of offering a money back guarantee is not because "people will get their money back anyway" it is a technique used to eliminate the buyer's fear.
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