Is building a mailing list really worth it?

by tomswiftjr

Posted: 15 years ago 28 replies

INTERNET MARKETING

I'm getting ready to launch a couple of ebooks in two different non-IM niches. I'm trying to decide whether to do a squeeze page, then sales letter, or just sales letter. I'll test test both, but I'm curious as to what I can expect in terms of conversion from the people who sign up to my mailing list. I'm planning on offering a 7-day free mini-course to get people to opt-in, then emails perhaps once or twice per week after that. The offer would be presented in each email.

What kinds of conversions have people who have done similar systems seen? I know it varies widely, but are we talking 1%, 10%, 90%?

Bonus question: if I go with squeeze, then sales letter, will I see a drop in my immediate conversions for people who don't opt-in? I would assume I would, as some people won't make it to the sales letter page at all?

#$27 #conversion #ebook #optin #rate #sale #typical

Adrian Cooper 15 years ago

Squeeze pages do not always work well in none IM niches - non IM people are intimidated by them and feel they will end up on a spam list.

Add an opt-in to your sales page offering something of value, and make sure that you set the auto-responder to go straight back to the sales letter after opt-in.

I usually have two copies of the sales letter, one with and one without the opt-in, the one with the opt-in form being the default. I set AWeber to load the other sales letter, without the opt-in after the opt-in process, so the visitor does not see the opt-in again.
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- tomswiftjr 15 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by apc01
  
  Squeeze pages do not always work well in none IM niches - non IM people are intimidated by them and feel they will end up on a spam list.
  
  Hmmm...great advice. I'll have to test and see what my specific results are.
  
  However, the question still stands in that sales cycle as well...once you get people on your mailing list, what's a useful conversion rate target to aim for?
  
  Thanks
  
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EndGame

15 years ago

I think the best answer to this is not the one you are looking for.

You really need to test this yourself. If you're going to go-ahead and do this anyway, why do you need to know the "likely" conversions. Put the website up as you describe and you'll have a better answer to the question in a week's time than any of us could offer.

Do a split-test and refine the process until you get the conversions that YOU want.

All the best.

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MarkMilan 15 years ago

I'm also interested in this.

I've figured out that when using PPC, if 20% of people who click through to my squeeze page do opt-in (which apparently is reasonable according to another thread I read), I then need 14% of those new subscribers to buy a $40 product from which I earn $20 in order for me to break even straight away. Unfortunately, I have no idea whether 14% is doable or not.

Incidentally, I expect it may take some testing to get to the point where I can break even, but I just want to make sure I'm not chasing after a pink unicorn.
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tomswiftjr

15 years ago

Originally Posted by EndGame

You really need to test this yourself. If you're going to go-ahead and do this anyway, why do you need to know the "likely" conversions.

I'm goal-oriented and I like to have a target to shoot for

In all seriousness, I'm a big fan of testing and refining, but I'd also like to know what a realistic range to shoot for is. For example, let's say that in the scenario I've laid out, typical conversion rate is 20%. But let's say my break-even conversion is 2%. I test and refine and eventually I get to 6%. I'm pretty happy and I think my copy is doing a great job. But it turns out that my copy sucks and I'm leaving a lot on the table. I should really go out and invest in a great copywriter to help me get to the place I should be.

As MarkMilan stated, if the target you need to shoot for in a scenario like this is well-nigh impossible, then you should probably spend your energy elsewhere. At the very least, the "test blindly and see what happens" approach leaves out opportunity costs as a factor. I have a lot of things I could do with the time, energy, and money that the build, test, refine process will consume. If that cycle is unlikely to result in a good ROI, that's useful to know.

I would really appreciate any specific advice anyone has to offer. Thanks!

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jbsmith

15 years ago

Couple of points that may help...

1. If your sales letter is brand new, you may want to direct traffic to the sales letter first (and split test it) until you reach a conversion rate of at least 1%. You asked what a typical sales letter would convert in non-IM niche - that's just too broad a question - they range from near nothing to 5%+

If I had to peg an average from my own experience and helping many others - an average would be 2-3% (with some work - usually the first version doesn't conver that well).

So, if you want to work on improving the sales letter - drive a few weeks traffic toward the letter first and with split testing, improve the sales letter best you can.

2. Yes, squeeze pages DO work in non-IM niches - I have one health related niche where the squeeze conversions are well over 30%. Not only do more of these convert at the sales page than "cold" traffic would, but they are on my list and I can promote future products as well as affiliate products to them and I have a list of a few thousand people so far that would really add value to the business should I decide to sell it (not being considered right now).

Jeff

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tomswiftjr

15 years ago

Jeff,

Thanks for the info...I really do appreciate it.

Let's say you just have one product right now for a particular niche. Do you have a sense of your conversion rate for getting someone who opts-in to your list to buy that one product? That's more the piece of data I'm after. People talk about building long-term value through a list, which makes sense, but it would be nice to know how that translates to dollars over time. Make sense?

Thanks again!

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MarkMilan

15 years ago

Originally Posted by tomswiftjr

Do you have a sense of your conversion rate for getting someone who opts-in to your list to buy that one product? That's more the piece of data I'm after. People talk about building long-term value through a list, which makes sense, but it would be nice to know how that translates to dollars over time. Make sense?

It makes sense to me, but other people seem to be answering everything but the question you asked.

What I'm interested in is of the people who have subscribed to a list from PPC, roughly what percentage of those subscribers can I expect to go on to buy? I realise that the answer ultimately is "it depends", but even an answer like "from 0% to 30%" would be useful.

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Adrian Cooper

15 years ago

Originally Posted by jbsmith

Couple of points that may help...

2. Yes, squeeze pages DO work in non-IM niches - I have one health related niche where the squeeze conversions are well over 30%. Not only do more of these convert at the sales page than "cold" traffic would, but they are on my list and I can promote future products as well as affiliate products to them and I have a list of a few thousand people so far that would really add value to the business should I decide to sell it (not being considered right now).

Jeff

It depends on the product. People with health issues are generally motivated to find what your solution is.

If it is about "how to make your parrot talk" - to refer to an infamous sales letter by an equally infamous marketer - then a parrot owner may not be so motivated by a squeeze page or someone interested in gardening etc.

But yes - I guess the message is do the testing and find out on a niche by niche basis.

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tomswiftjr 15 years ago

Let's put this another way: is building a mailing list really worth the trouble?
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- Harry Behrens 15 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by tomswiftjr
  
  Let's put this another way: is building a mailing list really worth the trouble?
  
  For me it is usually very much worth the trouble. It may turn out to not be worth it in your case and your niche, but, the question is, is it worth it to *test* it and see whether it's going to be worth the trouble or not (i.e. to test and track whether people on a list bring a higher conversion rate than with a straight sales letter)? To that question the answer is yes, for sure.
  
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dndoseller 15 years ago

I am in a completely non-IM niche and I kind of downplay the fact that the header of my entire site is one huge squeeze page.

I get tons of signs-up for the free music - and the visitor just happens to have to opt in to my newsletter to get it.

I simply do not mention the words "newsletter" or "more information" (see sig) now I get more sign ups in a day (10-20) than I used to get in a month.

When you sign up a nice note from me says I'd like to keep them updated on my free MP3s...just click the opt in link. But I also give direct links to the two zip files of free music right away in the first email.
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- tomswiftjr 15 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by dndoseller
  
  I simply do not mention the words "newsletter" or "more information" (see sig) now I get more sign ups in a day (10-20) than I used to get in a month.
  
  I see you're selling a paid product (the SongMix system)? How many of the people who sign up to your newsletter end up buying the system later?
  
  Thanks
  
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DavidO

15 years ago

"Test it" is always the most sensible answer but since you're looking for actual experiences, here goes:

I've had poor results with mailing lists. Putting an opt-in on your sales page is a distraction just like anything else and will affect your sales conversion. I've tested this and confirmed it.

Will follow-up pitches to your list make up for it? Not in my case. If you're pitching to an IM market that makes a lot of purchases it may be successful.

If your sales page is not converting well it's unlikely that you're going to convert them with an email campaign because your message is not honed well enough. And if your sales letter IS converting well why distract visitors and kill immediate sales with an opt-in?

I don't believe the old hocum that it takes seven visitor contacts on average to make a sale. In fact, I believe your prospects decrease with each contact. (I'm talking about email contacts from a mailing list... repeat visits to your webpage initiated by the prospect is another matter and indicates increasing interest.)

In most cases if you haven't made a sale with your first or second email follow up you can write em off for good. Again, this depends somewhat on the type of market.

My strategy is to focus 100% on a direct sale from my website. It doesn't always work on the first visit but people coming back to visit on their own initiative are powerful prospects. On the other hand, you're not likely to get them back with an email.

Others will trash this strategy because they're in different markets and using a different M.O.

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tomswiftjr

15 years ago

Originally Posted by DavidO

If your sales page is not converting well it's unlikely that you're going to convert them with an email campaign because your message is not honed well enough. And if your sales letter IS converting well why distract visitors and kill immediate sales with an opt-in?

I don't believe the old hocum that it takes seven visitor contacts on average to make a sale. In fact, I believe your prospects decrease with each contact. (I'm talking about email contacts from a mailing list... repeat visits to your webpage initiated by the prospect is another matter and indicates increasing interest.)

Very interesting. I would agree if you're using the newsletter to spam them with offers only, but are there cases where people use their mailing list to add value and build trust? Surely one of the big reasons why sales pages don't convert is a lack of trust...I just stumbled across some random sales page and I don't want to risk my $27 unless I know I'll get something in return. But I might be willing to opt-in to some free stuff. If that free stuff is valuable, and if I get more valuable info over time from the person, I might be more likely to buy, right?

For example: let's say I'm in the dog training niche, and I sell a complete system for training your golden retriever for $27. If I send the opt-ins an article each week with useful tips like "How to Keep Your Dog from Jumping on the Furniture", or "What to Do With Your Dog While You're at Work" or whatever, won't the person be more likely to begin to trust me and want to purchase the whole system?

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MarkMilan

15 years ago

I did some searching and I found this thread: http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...sion-rate.html

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tomswiftjr

15 years ago

Originally Posted by MarkMilan

I did some searching and I found this thread: URL REMOVED BECAUSE I CAN'T POST LINKS YET

Thanks Mark...that thread actually had some valuable comments. I thought this one was particularly interesting:

Originally Posted by George Chernikov

The figure that I often see quoted is that a properly built list will net you $1 for each subscriber, every month. In other words, a proper list of 1,000 subscribers will net you $1,000 a month in revenue.

Now, I know that probably varies a LOT, but it's at least something to shoot for, which is all I wanted.

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Troy_Phillips

15 years ago

Originally Posted by tomswiftjr

Thanks Mark...that thread actually had some valuable comments. I thought this one was particularly interesting:

Now, I know that probably varies a LOT, but it's at least something to shoot for, which is all I wanted.

I have list that have never made me a dime . I have list that make me that famous dollar . I have list that make $100 per member . I have list that make me a lot more than that

Building a list is just as good as the funnel you run your list through.

Start them out on a freebie list . Get them on that dollar list and then keep them ascending toward the high dollar list .

Especially in a non IM niche , you need to make sure the member even has a credit card .

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Harry Behrens

15 years ago

Originally Posted by tomswiftjr

For example: let's say I'm in the dog training niche, and I sell a complete system for training your golden retriever for $27. If I send the opt-ins an article each week with useful tips like "How to Keep Your Dog from Jumping on the Furniture", or "What to Do With Your Dog While You're at Work" or whatever, won't the person be more likely to begin to trust me and want to purchase the whole system?

If the stuff you're sending them is a real value and useful to them then most certainly they will want to purchase from you.

I don't remember where I read this exactly but I recall that in general a prospect needs to "make contact" with an offer a few times (I read an average of seven times, but who knows really) before they go ahead and buy. Having them on the newsletter and doing as you say is the natural way to speed them along this process.

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Gambbit 15 years ago

In cases, it is. In cases, it is not.

In some niches outside the Internet Marketing one, the response to a squeeze page is low. In other niches, you'll control traffic at your will if you build a list.

I don't think its *always* important. It sometimes is.
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Lightlysalted 15 years ago

It's always difficult to figure out conversion rates because it demands upon your product, but essentially you should be looking for a click through rate of between 5 & 8% which is the industry standard. My experience is that you would need a mailing list of aound 2000 subscribers to start making any decent money. I use Email Marketing Software - Your Mailing List Provider as my mailing list provider and they are excellent (please note that this is not a referral link of any kind.
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effektz 15 years ago

I'm sure lots of people will give you various answers, but for me my email list has been absolutely amazing and vital for my business. I give a 20% discount on the first purchase for people who sign up to my mailing list, and I've used this list to re-sell similar products with great success
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primeelite 15 years ago

I think building a mailing list is essential as you can upsell from there as well as easily get in contact to sell them the product if they did not purchase the first time. In non-IM niches you have to be very careful not to scare off the consumer.
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Doug D 15 years ago

I think are so many variables to consider, that it is conceivable that the expected #'s could really vary from person to person....depending on their biz and a whole bunch of other factors.
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Jay Deiboldt 15 years ago

Is it worth it? Are you serious?

Especially if you're paying for traffic!!!

Why don't you just do a hover opt-in on the sales page? It's not only worth it, it's ESSENTIAL to build a list otherwise once your traffic is gone, it's most likely gone FOREVER.

Having an autoresponder series in place to send prospects back to the letter will greatly increase your conversions. There's no telling what your conversion % for the email follow ups will be because it all depends on how good your AR series is.

But YES YES YES for God's sake YES BUILD A LIST
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- tomswiftjr 15 years ago
  
  Haha...love the enthusiasm. Confession: the title of this thread was a bit over-dramatic to solicit responses But in all seriousness, how do I know if my AR series IS any good? I know it depends on the niche, products, pricing, etc, but for a non-IM niche selling a $27 ebook, is 2% conversion really good or is 20% really good?
  
  I have every intention of building a list, don't worry
  
  Thanks
  
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charles4 15 years ago

I spent a lot of money building a large list that makes no money. The point for me is to build a list that is an asset to me.

Therefore I am now building a better screen list and some money is now coming in.
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Mr McDonald 15 years ago

Now, here's why a list is so important and
deserves the number ONE priority in your
online business:
It's probably the ONLY real, sellable asset
in your business.

Think about it...

You only own 3 things in your business
- Your intellectual property (product)
- Your websites (media)
- Your list (customers)

Remember...

Nothing in your business moves without a
sale. And your list is the only asset that
will make sales for you. Not a website.
Not even the best product.
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Is building a mailing list really worth it?

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