I can't believe these websites...

[Matthew W. Rhodes]

I'm guessing a few of you have run into sites like this,
but I just saw this one:

>> Momsdietswork(DOT)com

(Edit: removed the link so they don't get any Google love.)

It is the most unethical thing I've ever seen, but I know
they're making an absolute killing. It's probably illegal
too, but I have no way of knowing for sure.

They have a very similar website targeted towards folks
who want to make money online, as well. This is really
the kind of stuff that gives IMers a bad name.

I was going to do a "point-by-point" about everything
unethical on the page, but it's not worth my time.

Time for me to go back to making money WITHOUT
misleading or scamming people...

Matt

[giselle.benites]

Yes I have seen those websites. But how do you know they are scams? I know they are promoting a weight loss pill, but what is wrong with that? They probably are exagerating but with mascara TV ads they do the same thing. The model is always wearing fake eyelashes LOL

Just curious.

Giselle

[Edgar Moreno]

I have seen similar products to these on T.V. with that now known "quack" doctor that sits in front of the camera with another nerdy looking guy. I found out the ingredients in that product actually made a lot of people sick but its still running on the air.

As for this product I would have to agree with Giselle and ask how you know its a scam? The Acai berry has nothing but good reviews. I havent had a chance to search out information on this exact product but still curious.

[Star Riley]

It looks fabricated and that picture is of two different people. I wonder what would be a better way to accomplish the same thing?

[kf]

Hey Matt. I'm currently in Victoria ... (where the woman shown on the blog apparently lives) ...

Ya want me to go tune her up fer ya ???? I got friends with muscle!

[debra]

I just learned about these types of blogs.

They are fake blogs aka Flogs.

I think they are there to pump a product only. And, doing it in a very malicious and deceptive way. Mass misrepresentation.

I see the FTC having fun with these in the very near future.

[Anthony Tilley]

I saw this site and several like it when researching niches a while ago. The really strange thing is that all the girls seemed to be called Laura!!!
I have found a site that certainly seems to bear out Matt's thoughts on a scam.

celebritydietdoctor.com/acai-berry-scam/

Loads of comments on being ripped off.

By the way I decided not to do anything in the weight loss niche, thought it dangerous messing with people's weight and health.

[ChrisByrns]

Welcome to the Interwebs - it's called "marketing".

[Steven Fullman]

Originally Posted by ChrisByrns

Welcome to the Interwebs - it's called "marketing".

Hi Chris,

I thought it was called 'Scamming'...

The two do not necessarily go hand in hand.

Steve

[Matthew W. Rhodes]

Originally Posted by giselle.benites

Yes I have seen those websites. But how do you know they are scams? I know they are promoting a weight loss pill, but what is wrong with that? They probably are exagerating but with mascara TV ads they do the same thing. The model is always wearing fake eyelashes LOL

Just curious.

Giselle

It's not the picture of the model.

It's the fact "she" says she's from your location, and the "social proof" at the bottom (all the B.S. comments) are completely fake...plus I'm sure her own personal story is a fabrication.

This is NOT marketing. It's pure deception, and evil. It takes a sharp eye and a pretty savvy programmer/webmaster/marketer to see that the entire page is a lie.

Matt

[ChrisByrns]

Originally Posted by Steven Fullman

Hi Chris,

I thought it was called 'Scamming'...

The two do not necessarily go hand in hand.

Steve

I don't think it's scamming.. it's just clever geo-targeting in order to get more hits.. perhaps it's a bit deceptive but if the product delivers what it promises, it's not scamming at all.

[Kim Davis]

Apparently she lives in the same small city as me as well. I will have to look her up and get the real scoop. At least I can find out if she actually lost weight or not. Everybody knows everybody through someone in this city....I don't know anyone that spells St. as Saint in this city. Can't these be reported?

[keyaziz]

I just find it odd how the area changes to where you live. I was wondering how that works?

For me it says Huntingdon, C3. I am assuming that C3 maybe is suppose to be my postcode area. It's a little silly and that instantly makes me know its fake.

I don't like things like this. I just think its wrong.

[Steven Fullman]

Originally Posted by ChrisByrns

I don't think it's scamming.. it's just clever geo-targeting in order to get more hits.. perhaps it's a bit deceptive but if the product delivers what it promises, it's not scamming at all.

See Matthew's post just above yours.

I happen to agree with him

"Perhaps it's a bit deceptive, but..."

That's not what you want folk to think, surely? And most folk are just as 'savvy' when it comes to bull**** offers like that one.

And sadly, that's what probably drags 'real' marketers down.

Steve

[Matthew W. Rhodes]

Originally Posted by ChrisByrns

I don't think it's scamming.. it's just clever geo-targeting in order to get more hits.. perhaps it's a bit deceptive but if the product delivers what it promises, it's not scamming at all.

This is an "ends justifies the means" argument. :-)

Geo-targeting is fine...but claiming you're from a certain area when you're not for the sole purpose of getting trust is wrong.

Matt

[jasonl70]

This forum has plenty of people who publish glowing reviews of products they have never used, as well as people who use fake testimonials.

And there's plenty of people using 'real' blogs to promote via "reviews".

The only thing different with flogs is that it simply uses the look and feel of a blog, which I really have no issue with. Who really cares if it actually has a full blown wordpress install behind it? If the review is going to be based on a personal experience, then the blog format itself is a neat idea.

Styling someting to look like a blog is not unethical - it's the content that needs to be judged, and frankly there's nothing new about fake reviews and fake testimonials. The only thing 'new' with these is their use (abuse) of the geo-location script.

*edit* I'd like to point out that fabricating where you are from is not nearly as unethical as a fabricating a review.

[ChrisByrns]

My point is: "scamming" is when you promise something, collect the money and don't deliver. I fail to see this in this example.. sorry.

[Ricky Parker]

Hahaha another geo-targeting script flog thread. (bangs head against wall looking for phone book)


Here ya go have fun. Be from everywhere.


http://www.geoplugin.com/

[morry]

I'm with Jason, while it's a bit dodgy, it's not scamming.

Almost all the Clickbank style review sites are setup by people who have never actually used a product and most people don't have any problems with those.

This is basically a more sophisticated version.

Sean

[Johnathan]

hi Matthew--

I believe these are the same guys that I posted about. Please check out the thread I started here:

These particular CPA ads. Should they be shut down?

Johnathan

Originally Posted by Matthew W. Rhodes

I'm guessing a few of you have run into sites like this,
but I just saw this one:

>> Momsdietswork(DOT)com

(Edit: removed the link so they don't get any Google love.)

It is the most unethical thing I've ever seen, but I know
they're making an absolute killing. It's probably illegal
too, but I have no way of knowing for sure.

They have a very similar website targeted towards folks
who want to make money online, as well. This is really
the kind of stuff that gives IMers a bad name.

I was going to do a "point-by-point" about everything
unethical on the page, but it's not worth my time.

Time for me to go back to making money WITHOUT
misleading or scamming people...

Matt

[ChrisByrns]

i know i'll get some flames for this, but..

REALITY CHECK!

Do you want to make some money in IM? ..then get with the program. Switch on your tv and have a look at them commercials: it's ALL about lying, faking, making potential buyers BUY something they DO NOT NEED AT ALL! ..is it unethical?! Hell YEAH! Is it scamming?! Hell NO (because they actually buy a working product).

And y'all complain about some geo-targeting? C'MON, PLEASE!

[Jeremy Kelsall]

While the site in question is definitely a "fake" it really isn't a whole lot different than what 90% of internet marketers are doing.

If the Internet Marketer that has sent me pitches for 10 products this week has really used them all as he claims, I'll be surprised...

If the 10 gazillion Authors at EZA that have really lost 21 pounds in 11 days as they write in their articles, I'll be surprised...

etc..

etc...

etc...

I'm not saying that I agree with it, condone it, or do it. What I am saying is that a large majority of Marketers use the same exact tactics every single day in different ways.

Does that make it right?

I'm not sure, I'm not the Internet Marketing Police

[RebeccaL]

I can think of a million things more unethical in the offline world compared with these flogs (which can make a ton of cash by the way). weight loss TV advertisements have for decades been using people to praise the companies or products involved, when in all likelihood they've probably never used the product they're endorsing let alone benefited from it.

You think those people on the Ab King Pro TV ads really got their perfect bodies from doing a few fake sit ups with a plastic object?

Some people have a problem with flogs, others don't... if you're not hurting anyone or anything then I don't see a problem with it. Ultimately it is up to the reader if they want to buy and the only problems that occur are when they don't read the terms and conditions.

[Harry Behrens]

My name is Lauren Burt and I am from Caracas, 25.

Well, she got me alright, how'd she know I'm from 25?! Spooky

I don't have a problem with the blog itself - if the product really does do what they say it does. If it doesn't, or is actually harmful and bad for you, then that's a problem.

But that's a different issue from the 'making it look like a blog' issue, which I don't see so much wrong with. People from here do that sort of thing every day. And big names like Fox, CNN, Walmart, Rachel Ray, Martha Stewart etc et al do much, MUCH worse and unethical things every day in the name of marketing as well.

[ragnartm]

You guys are all wrong, she lives in Bergen, 07 What a lame concept, they fail at everything else so they stoop to scamming for a living gj lmao.

[John S. Rhodes]

I will avoid the ethics questions for now.
(Ultimately, you have to decide if this is
the kind of marketing you'd like to do.)

I'll just say that there are faster, easier
and smarter ways to make money. And,
there are better ways to help people at
the same time.

~ John

p.s. Geotargeting is simply a technology.
It's not good. It's not evil. What matters
is how the technology is applied. Do not
throw the baby out with the bathwater.

[malcasid]

Originally Posted by Matthew W. Rhodes

It's not the picture of the model.

It's the fact "she" says she's from your location, and the "social proof" at the bottom (all the B.S. comments) are completely fake...plus I'm sure her own personal story is a fabrication.

This is NOT marketing. It's pure deception, and evil. It takes a sharp eye and a pretty savvy programmer/webmaster/marketer to see that the entire page is a lie.

Matt

Agreed. This is NOT marketing. People would be outraged if this was done offline. I don't see why this would be ok to do just because it is online.

[Daniel Scott]

Originally Posted by ChrisByrns

i know i'll get some flames for this, but..

REALITY CHECK!

Do you want to make some money in IM? ..then get with the program. Switch on your tv and have a look at them commercials: it's ALL about lying, faking, making potential buyers BUY something they DO NOT NEED AT ALL! ..is it unethical?! Hell YEAH! Is it scamming?! Hell NO (because they actually buy a working product).

And y'all complain about some geo-targeting? C'MON, PLEASE!

What's not cool here is, essentially, fake testimonials.

Let's face it, if this went up before the FTC they'd tear it apart... it's illegal and uncool.

I don't think it's okay to endorse a product you've never used (unless you say you've never used it). I don't think it's okay to make up testimonials (neither does the FTC).

I can't speak for everyone... but I, and the marketers I respect, find a problem, and offer a WORKING SOLUTION... and ask for compensation for our efforts.

The geo-targeting? I think it's stupid, but honestly I don't care about it all that much. It's like those "act before midnight" scripts... stupid, but not that big a deal.

What is a big deal is the crazy, massive lies on the page.

Believe it or not, some of us make money without lying.

-Dan

[RebeccaL]

Originally Posted by malcasid

Agreed. This is NOT marketing. People would be outraged if this was done offline. I don't see why this would be ok to do just because it is online.

It is done offline..... just turn on your TV.

[ChrisMarx]

Its not as bad when they're selling teeth whitening or something non-essential. At worst the customer lost some $$$.

I was experiencing some serious health issues and needed all the information I could get. The fake blog created by someone in my local area... (just a faked address) sold me on a lousy ebook.

The ebook which was full of bad information that actually made my symptoms worse, not better. About 50% of it was accurate info, but that was nothing more than basic information also available on wikipedia.

Thats when the deceptive salesmanship and the lousy product should be punished!!!

[Michael Taylor]

Originally Posted by ChrisByrns

Do you want to make some money in IM? ..then get with the program. Switch on your tv and have a look at them commercials: it's ALL about lying, faking, making potential buyers BUY something they DO NOT NEED AT ALL!

You don't need to lie or fake anything to make money on the Internet.

Also, we don't need much at all...just food, clothing, shelter, transportation. All else are things we want, whether for good reason or not. So, selling something that someone doesn't need isn't unethical. People desire things and buy those things far faster and in greater quantities than when they buy the things they really need. And if they don't want it, they're not buying.

[goldentraders]

Originally Posted by Star Riley

It looks fabricated and that picture is of two different people. I wonder what would be a better way to accomplish the same thing?

Originally Posted by ChrisByrns

I don't think it's scamming.. it's just clever geo-targeting in order to get more hits.. perhaps it's a bit deceptive but if the product delivers what it promises, it's not scamming at all.

Hmm... Glad Matthew brought about this thread... I'm just curious about all those kind of health products... Are those for real? Like Herbalife?

[GarrieWilson]

Originally Posted by ChrisByrns

My point is: "scamming" is when you promise something, collect the money and don't deliver. I fail to see this in this example.. sorry.

Wrong.

Flogs scam because of the false testimonials, fake photos, etc.

Originally Posted by ChrisByrns

i know i'll get some flames for this, but..

REALITY CHECK!

Do you want to make some money in IM? ..then get with the program.

I do make money. Thanks.

The closest thing I do that's iffy, is display a recent date on sales letters and have it remembered.

Originally Posted by RebeccaL

It is done offline..... just turn on your TV.

If it's on TV and done offline then its OK.

[GeorgR.]

look at the various CPA programs and check WHAT is actually making the most money.

HINT: Its NOT necessarely ethical...

In Affmarketing and CPA..i see a LOT borderline-scam offers, sadly...

[Dana_W]

Originally Posted by kf

Hey Matt. I'm currently in Victoria ... (where the woman shown on the blog apparently lives) ...

Ya want me to go tune her up fer ya ???? I got friends with muscle!

Here's the funny thing - I bet if I went to the website, it would tell me she lives in Orlando. Every time I see these advertisements, the person on that site is supposedly not only from Orlando but from the suburb of Orlando that I live in.

I am pretty sure they can just tell from my ip address where I'm from and they adjust it accordingly.

A word of warning - I posted a link to one of those websites, Beth's Monies, here on the WF while talking about what a scam it is. That particular site talked about how the site creator is a Christian mom of three working from home. Yeah, "she" was from my neighborhood! Allegedlly. Ha.
Then I quickly found out that when anyone from the Warrior Forum clicks on that link, it redirects to a porn popup that is almost impossible to get rid of - you have to shut your browser. They deliberately set things up so that this would happen if anyone visits their site from the Warrior Forum. So, yes, these are the calibre of people that you are dealing with on these sites.

And if you enter the URL of these sites in Google search and look these sites up - there are always a ton of scam complaints about them.

[Dana_W]

As for what these blogs do that is scammy - aside from the fact that faked testimonials are lame, and making up a character who allegedly wrote the blog is lame - because it clearly means the product doesn't WORK if you have ot make up fake testimonials -

the blog that I referenced above sold people a subscription to a "work from home system" which is apparently nearly impossible to cancel, according to all of the complaints that I saw on various "ripoff report" sites.

So these fake blogs are not only doing the stupid geo-targeting thing, and using fake pictures of a fake person who supposedly created the site, they are also selling products that don't work and making it near-impossible to cancel subscriptions.

[Johnathan]

Actually, I believe it is the same guy.

They have done some 500+ sites.

Originally Posted by Dana_W

As for what these blogs do that is scammy - aside from the fact that faked testimonials are lame, and making up a character who allegedly wrote the blog is lame - because it clearly means the product doesn't WORK if you have ot make up fake testimonials -

the blog that I referenced above sold people a subscription to a "work from home system" which is apparently nearly impossible to cancel, according to all of the complaints that I saw on various "ripoff report" sites.

So these fake blogs are not only doing the stupid geo-targeting thing, and using fake pictures of a fake person who supposedly created the site, they are also selling products that don't work and making it near-impossible to cancel subscriptions.

[Kim Standerline]

Is there more than one Scunthorpe in the world, I thought we were unique here in the wilds of Lincolnshire UK

Kim

Edit

I just read the rest of the thread and realised the location is targeted at wherever you are

I don't agree with it, but it's a clever idea

[ladysuccesstips]

Flogs are really rampant these days. But soon enough people will learn to discover whats business offers legit services/products and which are not. Lets just see how long they will survive the market.

[The Copy Nazi]

Hilarious. Just checked the site out. I'm in Paris, France. Guess where "Lauren" is now? Yep "Paris A8". And even the comments have been altered - geo-targeted. Talking about "the kind of stuff that gives IMers a bad name" and unethical marketing - how do you feel about the cookie-stuffers and CPA Craigslist scammers currently promoting their unethical marketing on WSOs?

BTW you want to clear your cookies after you visit that site.

[Nigel Greaves]

Dear Agony Aunt,

According to "Lauren" she comes from wherever the guys above live.

Well now I'm worried because when I go to the site all I get is "My name is Lauren Burt and I am from , ."

Does this mean that where I live has been abolished? I haven't had a letter from the council about it.

Or even more worryingly does it mean that I've been abolished? Should I try the site again when one of my other personalities comes to the surface again?

I have to go now as "The Voices" are telling me to do bad things again like making an Acai Berry CPA site.

Yours,

Worried of , .

[MarkMilan]

If you use the NoScript plugin for Firefox, the location remains blank like Nigel says above. It makes such sites stick out like a sore thumb.

I've seen a site that had a fake launch about three days in the future; it had my e-mail in the URL, and that seemed to give a launch timer specific to me. I'm surprised that it's worth the trouble to code such a thing. I don't consider myself a particularly moral man, but I would prefer to provide a great product rather than have to resort to petty tricks. I'm inclined to think people spend loads of time using these "blackhat" methods because they think they're a short cut, when in actuality its just as easy or difficult to do it the honest way, but I could be wrong.

[Tina M. Rideout]

These types of websites drive me crazy. Being a nutritionist for over 15+ years, I try my best to teach about proper diet and exercise.

I need to come up with a marketing concept that will blow these folks out of the water.

Possibly a bad diets on the net review page no links included:Smile---

Tina

[Anthony Tilley]

Originally Posted by Nigel Greaves

Dear Agony Aunt,

According to "Lauren" she comes from wherever the guys above live.

Well now I'm worried because when I go to the site all I get is "My name is Lauren Burt and I am from , ."

Does this mean that where I live has been abolished? I haven't had a letter from the council about it.

Or even more worryingly does it mean that I've been abolished? Should I try the site again when one of my other personalities comes to the surface again?

I have to go now as "The Voices" are telling me to do bad things again like making an Acai Berry CPA site.

Yours,

Worried of , .

Blimey that's awful I thought it was bad enough what happened to me, but you are in trouble mate. Apparently I now live in London!!! When I went to bed last night I lived in Newport (Wales). It's amazing it looks the same although I have noticed a few people wearing purly suits!!!

Oh well better thumb a lift back down the M4, only 200 miles should be home by Saturday.

[Don Schenk]

Originally Posted by kf

Hey Matt. I'm currently in Victoria ... (where the woman shown on the blog apparently lives) ...

Ya want me to go tune her up fer ya ???? I got friends with muscle!

Way too funny because when I go to that site the lady claims to be from Harrison,Ohio - about 10 minutes from here.

These sites pick up on the viewer's location and change the part of the world where the writer claims to live.

This makes the viewer of the site think, "She is practically my neighbor, I'll bet I could lose weight just like she did."

:-Don

[Finch]

Shocking - how far behind in Internet Marketing are [most of] you people? Even if you don't practice the technique, you should still know about it.

Geo-targeting has been around, forever. The dating industry started it (well, the porn industry actually). Don't you see why a CTR is likely to improve if it targets "singles in [my town]"

This is a flog. You can read about it here:

http://finchsells.com/2009/06/04/to-flog-or-not-to-flog/

As for the argument that it's unethical...lol

How many of you guys are pushing Clickbank products with the same old sales copy written by guys willing to sell you their secrets?

How many of you have ever watched an infomercial?

Pot, kettle, very black.

[Ricky Parker]

Originally Posted by Finch

Shocking - how far behind in Internet Marketing are [most of] you people? Even if you don't practice the technique, you should still know about it.

Eggzactly!

[Virtual Banker]

Originally Posted by Eneglan

Lol. How many more people are gonna chime in like little detectives like "apparently this guy lives in my hometown." It's a script it's a script it's a script script script. And it doesn't matter if you think it's stupid. It increases conversions. These landing pages are not built to impress you. They make money, and any factor that's tested for that ends up making more money will be used. The people these LPs work on usually have no idea what a google ad even is.

I have done Split testing on my FLOGs and found that having the Geo-Location Script as opposed to the guy just being from a static place, increased my conversions by around %50

Yeah %50 more conversions just from a little script.
You would also be VERY surprised how many people get fooled. I even get plenty of people using Firefox or Safari still buying through the FLOGS. (sorry haven't got anybody using a Linux OS yet lol)

Really the only people that don't get fooled are those that know what CTRL+U does....


.

[Jesus Perez]

Matthew, guess what I just found. It's a spin off your Flog.

Forget Flogs...Say Hello to SPAMAZINES!

[bhopkins]

Well, I'm probably going to get flamed, but what is the difference with this than the hundreds of IM product pages being pushed all the time? Most of them are outright lies and even if they are not lies most are embellished. There isn't any difference. Many people use geo targeting to connect better with the reader. Porn and dating sites have done it for years. Unless you actually believe all those lovely women actually live down the street from you.

This is marketing. Read Seth Godin's all marketers are lairs. Sure this site is pushing it, but its just marketing to the herd. This product is targeted towards females and most females want to read a story about someone else having success with some product before they buy. They want to connect with others who have similar problems.

In fact most people on the Internet want to connect. This is the reason for the explosion of sites such as Facebook, Twitter, and the thousands of other social media sites.

Effective marketing is about understanding your audience and then giving them what they want. This same technique is taught on this forum all the time. How many times have you read find a hungry crowd and feed them? If you have spent any time on the Warrior forum then I'm sure you have heard this before.

Now whether its something you want to do or not is up to you, but this is marketing and you have to compete or you don't make money.

Bruce