REMOVE Your IM Niche Product From The Clickbank Marketplace!

[Daniel Molano]

Hello Warriors!

Most people in the IM niche know that someone can grab a CB hoplink for any given product and replace their own CB ID in it to get the commission themselves (AKA Commission Theft). This might be good for your overall sales, but it is really hurting your affiliates!

Since I want the best for my affiliates of course, it is better to provide a closed doors affiliate program for customers only (and JV partners) where the hoplink and publisher name cannot be found anywhere.

Here's how to do it.

1. Install a link cloaking script in your website (I use Sam Stephen's HopGuard) that will encrypt your affiliate's ID with a URL to your site.

2. Send an e-mail to accounts@clickbank.com so they remove your product from the CB marketplace listings, that way, people can't generate their own hoplink.

This means that a regular "hoplink" cannot be generated and your publisher ID cannot be found, so affiliate links are truly cloaked and commission theft is close to impossible.

There is always people that know code and such inside out so they will be able to figure the hoplink out, but there are not many and at least you are minimizing the chances of commission theft the most you can.

WARNING! Again, this might hurt your overall sales, but you will be helping your affiliates squeeze the most profit out of your product and frankly, I prefer to have great affiliates than to make an extra sale or two.

Best of luck,

Daniel Molano

P.S: I haven't tested this with other affiliate programs outside of Clickbank, but I am sure it can also be done.

[Chris Lockwood]

Great, more tips for reducing sales! Keep them coming.

As a side benefit, this will save you lots of customer support time, since fewer sales means fewer problems.

[Daniel Molano]

Originally Posted by Chris Lockwood

Great, more tips for reducing sales! Keep them coming.

As a side benefit, this will save you lots of customer support time, since fewer sales means fewer problems.

Whatever, but I prefer to place ethics before profits.

And if my affiliates are not getting what they deserve for promoting my product, I must be doing something wrong.

[Eric Lorence]

As an affiliate, yes there are certain kinds of promotions one should stay away from on CB.

Especially ones that direct to outside payment pages, and those with numerous overt links drawing away commissions.

Many publishers could care less about affiliates loosing sales, the goal is to have as many clueless rookie affiliates driving traffic to their page as possible.

However there are many honest marketers running simultaneous affiliate programs in addition to CB.

I don't think CB is going anywhere, but by all means do start your own program.

It is good to see honest marketers that care about affiliates.

Best!

[Paul M]

Great tip, but business and ethics just do not mix.

paul

[Eric Lorence]

Great tip, but business and ethics just do not mix.

A most unfortunate point of view.

[ecoverartist]

It does...but good businesspeople are hard to find sometimes!

About as difficult as finding an honest lawyer..

[Steven Wagenheim]

Well, here's how I look at it...

I have no affiliates

So, somebody who might not have paid for my product at full price, MIGHT
pay for it if they know they can get a few bucks off of it.

I make many sales from people who just plug in their affiliate IDs.

And they're so obvious about it because their IDs usually match their last
name or something in their email or whatever.

It's the cost of doing business with Clickbank.

Having said that, all my future products are being sold through PayPal
including several that I've already started selling that way.

Affiliates? Who needs 'em LOL.

[Daniel Molano]

Originally Posted by p1a1u1l1

Great tip, but business and ethics just do not mix.

paul

I'd love to hear what someone like Willie Crawford and his salary would say about that.

[Daniel Molano]

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

Well, here's how I look at it...

I have no affiliates

So, somebody who might not have paid for my product at full price, MIGHT
pay for it if they know they can get a few bucks off of it.

I make many sales from people who just plug in their affiliate IDs.

And they're so obvious about it because their IDs usually match their last
name or something in their email or whatever.

It's the cost of doing business with Clickbank.

Having said that, all my future products are being sold through PayPal
including several that I've already started selling that way.

Affiliates? Who needs 'em LOL.

LOL Steven, I thought you said in one of your posts you were finally going to give affiliate marketing a shot.

P.S: Great 9,000 post you did yestarday by the way.

[Steven Wagenheim]

Originally Posted by Daniel Molano

LOL Steven, I thought you said in one of your posts you were finally going to give affiliate marketing a shot.

Yes, I do TONS of affiliate marketing of OTHER products AS an affiliate.

For my OWN products, I don't need affiliates.

I can sell them just fine on my own.

Two completely different things.

[Paul M]

Originally Posted by eslorence

A most unfortunate point of view.

Ok, I will make this an example of the original post.

The reason business and ethics don't mix, and no am not talking about doing
anything against the law or under handed, so I don't want it to come across that way.

One of his main points in his post was the fact that he would choose ethics
over profit regarding clickbank, therefor business and ethics do not mix.

Most of the time You have to choose one or the other, in this example
he has chosen ethics, but you cant have it both ways.

In offline business a CEO or directors job is not only to organize and run the business it
self, but to also boost profits constantly. A business that stagnates or shrinks is a
business thats in the process of failing. My point is a CEO or business owner will always choose profit over ethics.

Very few businesses allow you to be 100% business and profit driven while also
being 100% ethical, 100% of the time.

This is just my opinion,

paul

[flnz400]

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

I can sell them just fine on my own.

Errrr, why not leverage other people's time to work for you?

Not trying to pick at ya, but in order to scale a business, you need to have a plan of relinquishing responsibility and leveraging your time.

[Steven Wagenheim]

Originally Posted by flnz400

Errrr, why not leverage other people's time to work for you?

Not trying to pick at ya, but in order to scale a business, you need to have a plan of relinquishing responsibility and leveraging your time.

Hey, if somebody wants to promote my products, I have no problem with
that, but I'm not wasting my time trying to educate a bunch of dumbass
affiliates who don't know their butt from a hole in the wall how to promote
an affiliate product, because most of them don't have a clue.

I'd rather concentrate my efforts on selling MY stuff.

I can do it better than anybody else.

[Daniel Molano]

Please don't turn this thread into an affiliate marketing debate, it is not what this is about. Steven's point of view is perfectly valid and I quote him:

"2. There's More Than One Way To Skin A Cat

Don't let anybody tell you that there is only one right way to run your
business, advertise, make sales, make a sales page or whatever. I
have gone against the norm in so many areas it's not even funny. I've
done things that people have told me were crap and I still succeeded
with them. My first sales page was the worst looking thing you ever
saw. It still made me over 200 sales monthly for almost a whole year.
The blasted thing started off with a STOP sign right at the top of the
page. I mean talk about corny. But it worked. So try out your crazy
ideas. If they don't work, fine. But you never know what will turn out
to be a winner for you."

There are a million ways to do things, and if something works for someone then great! Like he said, don't let anyone tell you there is only one way to do business.

Please back to topic.

[jasonl70]

daniel-

I think you might be able to have it both ways.

Your still using CB for your affiliate program 'behind the scenes', right? But using your own links, which simply cloak the CB hoplink, correct?

Well, you could still leave your product in the CB marketplace using the normal hop links, and get the exposure to new affiliates, as well as offering the alternate links to your internal list.

[websitemoneynow]

This is a great tip , foremost you want to take care of your affiliates , taking care of your affiliates is very important to success

[Daniel Molano]

Originally Posted by jasonl70

daniel-

I think you might be able to have it both ways.

Your still using CB for your affiliate program 'behind the scenes', right? But using your own links, which simply cloak the CB hoplink, correct?

Well, you could still leave your product in the CB marketplace using the normal hop links, and get the exposure to new affiliates, as well as offering the alternate links to your internal list.

Hey Jason,

Yes that could work, but then the affiliates who start promoting through the CB marketplace would still be exposed to commission theft. Unless you clearly state that there is another affiliate possibility, but sometimes people just overlook those statements completely.

And yes what I am doing is running the affiliate program through Clickbank 'behind the scenes'.

Daniel

[Frank Donovan]

I don't see such a great conflict with this.

As a publisher, if someone purchases my product via their own affiliate link, it's all the same to me.

As an affiliate, if I'm going to seriously promote a product, I'd never do it without first cloaking the link - that's pretty basic.

It would be the casual, semi-serious affiliate who'd potentially suffer from commission theft. If you're concerned about that, you could maybe include a brief tutorial with your affiliate promotional material/tools.

Frank

[Chris Lockwood]

Originally Posted by Daniel Molano

Whatever, but I prefer to place ethics before profits.

Cool, maybe you should quit marketing and study for the priesthood.

You can be as self-righteous as you want, but don't smear others just for using Clickbank as it was intended.

[jasonl70]

Originally Posted by flnz400

Errrr, why not leverage other people's time to work for you?

Not trying to pick at ya, but in order to scale a business, you need to have a plan of relinquishing responsibility and leveraging your time.

Steven already has an entire thread somewhere devoted to this debate

[Daniel Molano]

Originally Posted by Frank Donovan

I don't see such a great conflict with this.

As a publisher, if someone purchases my product via their own affiliate link, it's all the same to me.

As an affiliate, if I'm going to seriously promote a product, I'd never do it without first cloaking the link - that's pretty basic.

It would be the casual, semi-serious affiliate who'd potentially suffer from commission theft. If you're concerned about that, you could maybe include a brief tutorial with your affiliate promotional material/tools.

Frank

Even if you cloak your affiliate link, a LOT of people (especially within the IM niche) head to the CB marketplace, look for the product and generate their own hoplink to get the commission themselves.

That is the whole point of this thread, it would prevent that from happening.

[peteinoz]

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

but I'm not wasting my time trying to educate a bunch of dumbass
affiliates who don't know their butt from a hole in the wall how to promote
an affiliate product, because most of them don't have a clue.

you are not serious are you? LOL

thats one of the dumbest quotes Ive ever seen on this board mate

Sheesh..

Is that how you refer to your customers aswell?

The web is the ultimate leverager.. and your discounting one of the larger properties of it in relation to IM? And insulting a rather large audience on this board at the same time?

Coming from someone who posts so frequently on this forum, I think you should exercise a bit more discretion before laying out blanket comments like that

Cheers

pete

[Daniel Molano]

Originally Posted by Chris Lockwood

Cool, maybe you should quit marketing and study for the priesthood.

You can be as self-righteous as you want, but don't smear others just for using Clickbank as it was intended.

Yeah, tell that to my 5 figures a month IM salary.

And I'm not smearing at anyone, I'm just pointing out an interesting possibility, if you are not interested, then why are you even still on this thread?

[Chri5123]

Hi Daniel

I can understand your point however Clickbank marketplace is too valuable a place to actually get the affiliates in the first place!

If i were to remove my product i would have to find a way to get more affiliates to see my product.

Very good point though, and I wish you luck with doing this.

Chris

[Steven Wagenheim]

Originally Posted by peteinoz

you are not serious are you? LOL

thats one of the dumbest quotes Ive ever seen on this board mate

Sheesh..

Is that how you refer to your customers aswell?

The web is the ultimate leverager.. and your discounting one of the larger properties of it in relation to IM? And insulting a rather large audience on this board at the same time?

Coming from someone who posts so frequently on this forum, I think you should exercise a bit more discretion before laying out blanket comments like that

Cheers

pete

Pete, it's a sad truth. Most people who start out promoting other
people's products don't have a clue. They look for the top selling product
at Clickbank, forgetting that the competition will eat them alive, they use
the same canned ads that all the merchants create and they use the
same tired advertising methods.

In 5 years, I've had one affiliate who knew what he was doing without
me having to spend countless hours training him. His name was Stephen
Crawford and sold hundreds of units for me.

I don't have the time to train people how to do affiliate marketing properly.

I'd rather spend that time selling my own products. I find it is much more
profitable for me.

So while you may see it as a dumbass statement, I am speaking from 5
years of busting my ass trying to get people to promote properly and I'm
done doing it.

[Ilya Feynberg]

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

Hey, if somebody wants to promote my products, I have no problem with
that, but I'm not wasting my time trying to educate a bunch of dumbass
affiliates who don't know their butt from a hole in the wall how to promote
an affiliate product, because most of them don't have a clue.

I'd rather concentrate my efforts on selling MY stuff.

I can do it better than anybody else.

Always the man to tell you how it is...hehe

Go Steve!

[peteinoz]

Originally Posted by Daniel Molano

Even if you cloak your affiliate link, a LOT of people (especially within the IM niche) head to the CB marketplace, look for the product and generate their own hoplink to get the commission themselves.

That is the whole point of this thread, it would prevent that from happening.

the fundimental mistake youve made is to assume that the majority of your customers understand 1 what a hoplink is and 2. that they would be bothered about creating an account to save a couple of bucks and 3 that they would know that they can do that.

sure theres a % that can and will do it.. though its only small and not worth worrying about, especially compared to the amount of sales you will loose.

I know how to and never have used my code to save a couple of lousy bucks..

Maybe the ones that do it, think they are being smart and purchase your product using their code, and would pass on it otherwise..

For the life of me I don't see why you would bother using CB at all and not just paypal.. the only reason to use CB is for the exposure to affiliates anyways, that is the ONLY upside to it.

Using paypal you can set your own commissions and no chance of theft at all.

Cheers

pete

[Daniel Molano]

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

Pete, it's a sad truth. Most people who start out promoting other
people's products don't have a clue. They look for the top selling product
at Clickbank, forgetting that the competition will eat them alive, they use
the same canned ads that all the merchants create and they use the
same tired advertising methods.

In 5 years, I've had one affiliate who knew what he was doing without
me having to spend countless hours training him. His name was Stephen
Crawford and sold hundreds of units for me.

I don't have the time to train people how to do affiliate marketing properly.

I'd rather spend that time selling my own products. I find it is much more
profitable for me.

So while you may see it as a dumbass statement, I am speaking from 5
years of busting my ass trying to get people to promote properly and I'm
done doing it.

Steven does have an interesting point, the more reason to remove it from the Clickbank marketplace.

On the other hand, Pete also has a great point, there are a lot of smart affiliates out there, the more reason to keep the affiliate program. Never overlook the possibility that maybe both parties are correct (because in this case, both Pete and Steven have very valid points).

And Chri5123, every single buyer of my product has access to my affiliate program and it is very clearly visible, it is just only opened to them. You will find that any potential affiliate (the good ones at least) will purchase or contact you for your product.

[peteinoz]

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

Pete, it's a sad truth. Most people who start out promoting other
people's products don't have a clue. They look for the top selling product
at Clickbank, forgetting that the competition will eat them alive, they use
the same canned ads that all the merchants create and they use the
same tired advertising methods.

In 5 years, I've had one affiliate who knew what he was doing without
me having to spend countless hours training him. His name was Stephen
Crawford and sold hundreds of units for me.

I don't have the time to train people how to do affiliate marketing properly.

I'd rather spend that time selling my own products. I find it is much more
profitable for me.

So while you may see it as a dumbass statement, I am speaking from 5
years of busting my ass trying to get people to promote properly and I'm
done doing it.

mate Ive spent a longer time and never had the misfortune youve encountered.

I could go on, though its time for bed..

Cheers

pete

[Frank Donovan]

Originally Posted by Daniel Molano

Even if you cloak your affiliate link, a LOT of people (especially within the IM niche) head to the CB marketplace, look for the product and generate their own hoplink to get the commission themselves.

That is the whole point of this thread, it would prevent that from happening.

I understand the point, but this only really works for regular CB users. The terms and restrictions regarding paying out commissions, mean that a casual buyer isn't generally going to get the benefit of any saving.

And most people, even on IM lists, are not regular CB users (unless you solely recruit your subscribers from IM forums) so avoiding the huge benefit that a CB listing would give your product is a disproportionate response to your perceived problem.

Frank

[Steven Wagenheim]

Originally Posted by peteinoz

mate Ive spent a longer time and never had the misfortune youve encountered.

I could go on, though its time for bed..

Cheers

pete

Pete, I'm very happy for you. There are lots of folks out there who have no
problem getting competent affiliates. Such has not been the case for me.

Hell, one affiliate almost got my domain shut down for spamming.

But that's okay, I've come to accept that I'm going to have to sell my
stuff on my own and I have no problem with doing that.

And as far as my comment about affiliates, it was a general statement
and not directed to anybody here at this forum. It's no different than
saying product creators create sh*t products. I understand that it's not
directed at me personally. Some do. Hell, many do. The Clickbank
marketplace is littered with them. I've got a review site that is filled
with crappy products and programs I've reviewed. It's no wonder IM gets
such a bad name.

Are there good product creators? Yes. I've bought many of their products.

Are there good affiliates? Must be. The Clickbank marketplace is littered
with 300 plus gravity products, so must be so. Hell, I placed 20th in the
Nitro Marketing Affiliate contest, nearly beating out Mike Filsaime with his
list 100 times the size of mine. So sure, there are good affiliates.

I just can't find them or they can't find me.

Like I said, I don't have the time and energy to go hunting for them and
then training them HOW to promote an affiliate product the RIGHT way.

I hope I've finally made myself clear on this subject.

Nothing personal was meant towards any particular affiliate marketer here
at the forum.

[Daniel Molano]

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

Pete, I'm very happy for you. There are lots of folks out there who have no
problem getting competent affiliates. Such has not been the case for me.

Hell, one affiliate almost got my domain shut down for spamming.

But that's okay, I've come to accept that I'm going to have to sell my
stuff on my own and I have no problem with doing that.

And as far as my comment about affiliates, it was a general statement
and not directed to anybody here at this forum. It's no different than
saying product creators create sh*t products. I understand that it's not
directed at me personally. Some do. Hell, many do. The Clickbank
marketplace is littered with them. I've got a review site that is filled
with crappy products and programs I've reviewed. It's no wonder IM gets
such a bad name.

Are there good product creators? Yes. I've bought many of their products.

Are there good affiliates? Must be. The Clickbank marketplace is littered
with 300 plus gravity products, so must be so. Hell, I placed 20th in the
Nitro Marketing Affiliate contest, nearly beating out Mike Filsaime with his
list 100 times the size of mine. So sure, there are good affiliates.

I just can't find them or they can't find me.

Like I said, I don't have the time and energy to go hunting for them and
then training them HOW to promote an affiliate product the RIGHT way.

I hope I've finally made myself clear on this subject.

Nothing personal was meant towards any particular affiliate marketer here
at the forum.

Steven we all know you are a master at promoting your products and others as well. Have you ever considered creating an e-book or something that outlines your promotion strategies and tricks, to then attach it as a bonus especifically directed to your affiliates where they will be automatically trained?Just a thought, I'd definately buy it and it could work.

And Frank, this is directed to prevent commission theft from the 'regular' CB users because, like you said, they are not majority, but there are still legions of them. And everyone knows, a LOT of people use their own CB ID to purchase products, wheter they are really saving something by doing so or not, it doesn't really matter, the point is, a LOT do it.

[Ricky Ticky Toc]

Good Tip but its up to my affiliates to protect themselfs theres programs out there they can use

[Steven Wagenheim]

Originally Posted by Daniel Molano

Steven we all know you are a master at promoting your products and others as well. Have you ever considered creating an e-book or something that outlines your promotion strategies and tricks, to then attach it as a bonus especifically directed to your affiliates where they will be automatically trained? I'd definately buy it and it could work.

Been there, done that. Ironically, they use the stuff to promote OTHER
people's products. Guess because they either pay more (mine are usually
only 50% or 60%) or are in a different niche than mine.

Like I said, it doesn't matter. I've lived without affiliates this long so
another few years won't kill me.

[MADMONEY]

Hello,

What I have done to track my affiliate sales and to make sure that the click bank, advertiser is honest with me, is I Always offer my own bonus to the person purchasing and have them e-mail me their receipt number.

If I am not paid on the sale through its normal process. I will e-mail the click bank, advertiser and send him a copy of the customer's e-mail to me. If the click bank, advertiser will not pay me, once I e-mail him. Then I will do my best to let everyone know that they should not do business with that company.

I will also e-mail Click Bank and complain about this publisher.Hope that helps as well is what was offered earlier

Madman

[bhlehr]

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

Hey, if somebody wants to promote my products, I have no problem with
that, but I'm not wasting my time trying to educate a bunch of dumbass
affiliates who don't know their butt from a hole in the wall how to promote
an affiliate product, because most of them don't have a clue.

Steven,

As one of those dumbass affiliates of yours, I was just wondering if some of your sites are down. I noticed yesterday that your honest income program and secret articles sites were no longer working. Let me know if this is permanent, so that I can remove the links and list other products in my ebooks and emails.

Brian

[Steven Wagenheim]

Originally Posted by bhlehr

Steven,

As one of those dumbass affiliates of yours, I was just wondering if some of your sites are down. I noticed yesterday that your honest income program and secret articles sites were no longer working. Let me know if this is permanent, so that I can remove the links and list other products in my ebooks and emails.

Brian

Brian, my web host has had a major crash and these sites have been down
for about 36 hours with no sign as to when they'll be back up.

And I was not referring to you with my post. I was speaking in general.

Yeah, you might as well remove them because I have no idea what's going
on with this hosting company. I may have to have everything moved.

[ExRat]

Hi,



Chomp!

[Jason Dolman]

Originally Posted by Chris Lockwood

Cool, maybe you should quit marketing and study for the priesthood.

You can be as self-righteous as you want, but don't smear others just for using Clickbank as it was intended.

There was nothing wrong with Daniel's suggestion and he definitely wasn't smearing or looking down on people who don't do things the way he suggested.

It's a perfectly viable way to stop Clickbank affiliate account holders from following another affiliate's link and then substituting their own when completing the purchase, yet still benefiting from the ease of use and popularity of Clickbank.

It's nice to see you working diligently towards ban #2 Chris aka "King of the One-Liners... or is it Two-Liners now?"

I would think you would have learned the first time, but it won't be long until you're banned again.... thankfully



Jason

[Mike Hill]

Originally Posted by p1a1u1l1

Great tip, but business and ethics just do not mix.

paul

Originally Posted by Ricky Ticky Toc

Good Tip but its up to my affiliates to protect themselfs theres programs out there they can use

Ricky is 100% on the money.... It's my job to create the products and all that jazz. It's the affiliates responsibility to make sure his links are cloaked and secured properly....

Mike Hill

[bhlehr]

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

Brian, my web host has had a major crash and these sites have been down
for about 36 hours with no sign as to when they'll be back up.

And I was not referring to you with my post. I was speaking in general.

Yeah, you might as well remove them because I have no idea what's going
on with this hosting company. I may have to have everything moved.

Yeah, I know you weren't speaking about me. I was just kidding. :-)

Sorry to hear about the server crash. What a pain. Now I've got to find some quality products like yours (is that possible?) and replace the links. :-(

Brian

[Keith Boisvert]

Hey, if somebody wants to promote my products, I have no problem with
that, but I'm not wasting my time trying to educate a bunch of dumbass
affiliates who don't know their butt from a hole in the wall how to promote
an affiliate product, because most of them don't have a clue.

Steve,

I must say I am dissapointed. Little harsh aren't you? If you did have any affiliates you prolly don't now.

I won't sit here and debate the "to affiliate or not to affiliate" argument. To each his own. But the last time I checked as a product owner it wasn't your responsibility to train affiliates. They have books for that.

As a product creator, you could make some banners, give affiliates some tools to help them help themselves and let them go.

You obviously have had some poor experiences, but to come out with a statement like this is absolutely uncalled for IMO, especially from someone who does usually does deliver some great content and people look up to.

I know my opinion means nothing, and I don't have a cult following, but come on! Honesty sometimes needs to be filtered.

JMO

Keith "dumbass" Boisvert

[Mike Montgomery]

Just so you know there are still ways around
this for affiliate marketers to be an affiliate for
your product through CB.

[Steven Wagenheim]

Originally Posted by Keith Boisvert

Steve,

I must say I am dissapointed. Little harsh aren't you? If you did have any affiliates you prolly don't now.

I won't sit here and debate the "to affiliate or not to affiliate" argument. To each his own. But the last time I checked as a product owner it wasn't your responsibility to train affiliates. They have books for that.

As a product creator, you could make some banners, give affiliates some tools to help them help themselves and let them go.

You obviously have had some poor experiences, but to come out with a statement like this is absolutely uncalled for IMO, especially from someone who does usually does deliver some great content and people look up to.

I know my opinion means nothing, and I don't have a cult following, but come on! Honesty sometimes needs to be filtered.

JMO

Keith "dumbass" Boisvert

Keith, you're right. It was a dumb remark made in the heat of the moment
from 5 years of pure and total frustration with affiliates. Hell, one guy
almost cost me my hosting because he spammed my link all over the
Internet. My host almost shut me down because of it.

But you're right, I should learn to put a lid on it sometimes.

[Keith Boisvert]

Keith, you're right. It was a dumb remark made in the heat of the moment
from 5 years of pure and total frustration with affiliates. Hell, one guy
almost cost me my hosting because he spammed my link all over the
Internet. My host almost shut me down because of it.

But you're right, I should learn to put a lid on it sometimes

It's ok Steve, we have all been there, I know I have said things I wish I didn't, or they didn't come out right.

No biggie, glad to see you started that other thread too.

Keith

[Josh Anderson]

Daniel,

If this is your strategy you are way better off moving your entire affiliate program to a better solution than clickbank... and there are a ton that are better for this kind of strategy.

The benefits are:

1. You keep as much as 5% more profits if you use your own processing like paypal and authorize.net and 7% more profits if its recurring.

2. You can launch products whenever you want without having to ask clickbank's permission or worry about delisting.

3. You can choose an affiliate system that tracks by a combination of cookie and IP eliminating affiliate theft.

And many more benefits too numerous to number.

Affiliates? Who needs 'em LOL.

LOL is right. You'd have to be nuts to think that way.

The only person who does not need them is the person who already has 100% of their prospective market aware of who they are, what they offer, and where to find it.

Or who would rather pay for advertising and do all the work themselves rather than paying for results.

[Colin Evans]

Hi Daniel,

Just thought I'd let you know I constructed a ClickBank hoplink from your HopGuard protected page to include my own ClickBank ID...

Untill ClickBank changes the programming of their order page you cannot stop people from creating their own hoplinks.

You can only give the illusion of protecting affiliates...

IMO - The only person losing out is you - You're limiting sales for no real reason.

[chris_surfrider]

I second Josh's response.

If you don't see the value of an affiliate force, then this might not be the right business for you.

If you've tried training an affiliate base and it didn't work out - then either your salespage sucks and people ONLY buy as a result of your presell content, or you're literally targeting newbies and simply asking for a hard time.

There's LOTS of very talented affiliates out there with tons of traffic.

Many of them can be found for the top competitive keywords in your niche on Google.

If you have conversion - they'll listen to you.

Either way, if you know what you're doing and if you see your products as the beginning of a FUNNEL - then recruiting capable affiliates is a total no-brainer.

As for the other half of Josh's comment (re: in-house aff program), this is something you can do at your discretion.

CB has no benefit other than the built-in affiliate exposure and the fact that they pay affiliates for you - and collect tax info. (You don't have to collect info from affiliates that do more than $600 in sales annually.)

Personally, I would treat ClickBank sort of like the 7Dollar Script.

Use it as a sales funnel to build a list of buyers with a hot-converting offer. Then sell them related stuff on the backend. The amount of traffic you can generate as a nicely visible merchant can be staggering.

Also, what you can do is have a lower-priced "flagship" product selling on CB, where you'll attract some affiliates. Use your listing to advertise your affiliate page URL, where you can have an IN-HOUSE program for a more lucrative product or recurring program.

This way, you can build both programs simultaneously, if you so desire.

At any rate, you need to see ClickBank as more of a list-building strategy than a payment processor. Unless you're selling something to customers who have no interest in anything else post-sale (such as many of the Society & Culture offers).

Just something to think about...

-Chris

[Zach Booker]

No offense indented but...
Do you try something once, fail and than quit?
I'm sure something happened in IM where you had a 'failure'...but clearly you didn't quit. So why try affiliates once and than quit?

Maybe you didn't try them just once but the point is still the same.
Hell I lost 20 000 on the stock market my first go, and since I 'got back on the horse' I have made over 150 000.

I'm sorry if I am missing something, but i fail to see the logic in not offering 75% commission to affiliates? Doesn't every dollar count?
Especially since it is on virtual auto pilot.
Set up an affiliates page and say in big bold letters "NEVER CONTACT ME, JUST PROMOTE!"
Give them a basic outline of how to promote, and a basic outline of how NOT to spam.
And make sure you stress you never want to be contacted by any affiliates because the product sells it self

I'm a straight shooter and I would except nothing else from anyone...
So call me an idiot if you wish.

But i just fail to see the logic in not taking advantage of using affiliates even if you just get a few thousand more a year.

Your obviously a very talented IM eunterpenur...and i think every single person on this forum has a high degree of respect for you.
You can only do so much by yourself...sometimes you need to let other people make you money
Get back on the horse and try things...it may just pay off.

Zach

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

Pete, I'm very happy for you. There are lots of folks out there who have no
problem getting competent affiliates. Such has not been the case for me.

Hell, one affiliate almost got my domain shut down for spamming.

But that's okay, I've come to accept that I'm going to have to sell my
stuff on my own and I have no problem with doing that.

And as far as my comment about affiliates, it was a general statement
and not directed to anybody here at this forum. It's no different than
saying product creators create sh*t products. I understand that it's not
directed at me personally. Some do. Hell, many do. The Clickbank
marketplace is littered with them. I've got a review site that is filled
with crappy products and programs I've reviewed. It's no wonder IM gets
such a bad name.

Are there good product creators? Yes. I've bought many of their products.

Are there good affiliates? Must be. The Clickbank marketplace is littered
with 300 plus gravity products, so must be so. Hell, I placed 20th in the
Nitro Marketing Affiliate contest, nearly beating out Mike Filsaime with his
list 100 times the size of mine. So sure, there are good affiliates.

I just can't find them or they can't find me.

Like I said, I don't have the time and energy to go hunting for them and
then training them HOW to promote an affiliate product the RIGHT way.

I hope I've finally made myself clear on this subject.

Nothing personal was meant towards any particular affiliate marketer here
at the forum.