Clickbank + MMO Niche = Higher Refunds

[Steven Wagenheim]

Been doing a lot of testing with Clickbank over the 6 plus years I have been
using them and I can say, at least from my own personal experience, that
Clickbank + the MMO Niche = Higher Refunds.

Now, I know a lot of you seasoned pros will probably say, "Duh! Tell us
something we don't know."

But this is for those starting out and based on some interesting testing.

Here are the things I did.

1. I sell MMO and non MMO products through Clickbank. The MMO products
have a refund percentage of about 9% for all the products I sell. The non
MMO products I sell, the refund percentage is under 1%. It's almost non
existent.

2. Some of my own products I split test. I have 2 sales pages. One I sell
through Clickbank and the other I sell through PayPal. The Clickbank sales
again, are around 9%. The PayPal sales, the same exact products, the
refund percentage is under 1%.

Under 1% for the same products in a MMO niche.

There is no question that people who buy from Clickbank, the ones who
are IMers, know they can get a refund for no reason and thus do so.

A product that I sell through PayPal, one of my most popular ones,
has yet to get a refund.

Not ONE.

Yesterday, that SAME PRODUCT, the last 2 sales that came through
Clickbank...

Both were refunded.

This is why I have stopped putting my products up on Clickbank. I don't
have the time nor desire to go hunting for affiliates so I don't need them.

If you're going to sell products through Clickbank, do what Travis Sago
did.

Create a product in a non IM niche like he did and go get affiliates.

THEN Clickbank can be a gold mine for you.

Sure, it can also be great IF you can get a ton of affiliates even for a
MMO product, but the truth is, if you can get affiliates on your own,
you'll still have a lower refund rate if you have your own in house
affiliate program.

Naturally, this is just my opinion, but I've been selling products through
Clickbank for over 6 years now and the evidence that I have seen is
overwhelming that refunds are higher than through any other means of
collecting payments.

Like I said, some of you will say "Duh!"

For the rest of you...I hope this little revelation is of some help.

[Andyhenry]

I think you're generally right Steven, although I do find that the refund situation depends (almost entirely) on where the traffic comes from.

I'm fortunate enough to have almost zero refunds but I don't blast ads out for my stuff so almost all of the traffic comes from my lists or from JVs and recommendations. I think that's the reason because I have a good relationship with my people and those that I would normally ask to spread the word also do.

I'm sure if I started sending lots of promos all the time the situation would change.

Andy

[Steven Wagenheim]

Originally Posted by Andyhenry

I think you're generally right Steven, although I do find that the refund situation depends (almost entirely) on where the traffic comes from.

I'm fortunate enough to have almost zero refunds but I don't blast ads out for my stuff so almost all of the traffic comes from my lists or from JVs and recommendations. I think that's the reason because I have a good relationship with my people and those that I would normally ask to spread the word also do.

I'm sure if I started sending lots of promos all the time the situation would change.

Andy

Andy, yes, that is something I didn't even think of. I do a lot of promotion
outside of my list and that is where all the refunds come from. My list,
hardly any at all.

Good point.

[TheFlash]

what does it mean MMO?

[Lynette Crase]

Originally Posted by TheFlash

what does it mean MMO?

It means Make Money Online.

[rondo]

Steven for the best of both worlds you should try Robert's ClickbankSwitch:
Combine The Power Of Clickbank And Paypal
It allows you to use both Paypal and Clickbank on your website simultaneously.


Andrew

[TLTheLiberator]

Yes the cb process makes it soooo easy to get a refund for any type of product and people often purchase something , don't follow instructions, don't make any money and then they want a refund.

56 days is a long time.

Then you have sales pages that over-hype what a product can do and people seek a refund after getting the over-hyped course.

And..

...sometimes after people discover exactly what the course calls for and then they don't want to do it and seek a refund.

TL

[Steven Wagenheim]

Originally Posted by rondo

Steven for the best of both worlds you should try Robert's ClickbankSwitch:
Combine The Power Of Clickbank And Paypal
It allows you to use both Paypal and Clickbank on your website simultaneously.


Andrew

Andrew, doesn't having a Clickbank and PayPal buy button on the same
sales page defeat the purpose of keeping people from buying from Clickbank?

If they see they can purchase from Clickbank, knowing they can get a
refund at any time, won't they just go purchase from Clickbank even if
there is a PayPal option?

Forgive my denseness but I don't get it.

[DougBangkok]

Steven, thanks for posting this; I have a non-IM product which gets zero refunds, as you said. However, I am about to release 5 IM-related products, so I will now have to decide how I am going to do this, based on your info. Currently, I have the first product available and listed on CB, but no sales yet as I have done no promotion yet.

[kenj]

Actually the other factor is the quality of the product. Does it do what the sales page says?

Customers in non MMO niches do not consider refunds unless the products are really poor. They just want the info. In the MMO niche customers can use the refund system simply because they know it is there

[kamilrazak]

Yeah... and people in MMO know how clickbank works and that it is real easy to get refund while people in other niches are not really aware about this..

And there is also that case with over-hype salesletter that just won't deliver the results as promised which may caused by the product itself or the customer who don't the right take action and fail.

[JayXtreme]

Originally Posted by kenj

Actually the other factor is the quality of the product. Does it do what the sales page says?

Customers in non MMO niches do not consider refunds unless the products are really poor. They just want the info. In the MMO niche customers can use the refund system simply because they know it is there

I don't really think you get what Steve said.. he was referring to the MMO niche refunds.. he made it quite clear.

Peace

Jay

[Trader54]

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

2. Some of my own products I split test. I have 2 sales pages. One I sell
through Clickbank and the other I sell through PayPal. The Clickbank sales
again, are around 9%. The PayPal sales, the same exact products, the
refund percentage is under 1%.

Under 1% for the same products in a MMO niche.

I have experienced the same thing, actually one product that I have sold for the past 5 years with paypal have only had 1 refund. The same product with clickbank has a much higher refund rate, also close to 10%. Even received one request for refund before I even got notification of the sale. Some know exactly what they are doing.

[Steven Wagenheim]

Originally Posted by Trader54

I have experienced the same thing, actually one product that I have sold for the past 5 years with paypal have only had 1 refund. The same product with clickbank has a much higher refund rate, also close to 10%. Even received one request for refund before I even got notification of the sale. Some know exactly what they are doing.

Yeah, it's pretty sad isn't it. I mean, at least make it look like you actually
opened the product and tried to use it.

Oh well, like they say...it's the cost of doing business with Clickbank.

[Hasan Barbary]

Wow, you've confirmed what I've suspected for awhile. I've only dabbled w/ClickBank ~ as a techie, I never had much confidence in their tracking (I know how easy it is for cookies to get dropped/stolen/etc). Anways, I just launched my 1st product with my own affiliate management; it's more work for me, of course, but if you've experienced a refund rate 10x higher for CB vs PP, then going solo is still a bargain.

Thanks for the straight talk.

[a1journo]

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

Yeah, it's pretty sad isn't it. I mean, at least make it look like you actually
opened the product and tried to use it.

Oh well, like they say...it's the cost of doing business with Clickbank.

Its one of the major turn offs with Clickbank, and it is such a shame because its such a huge market. Just seems a little unfair that refund without question is the policy... I guess there are alot of people in the MMO niche who want the info but don't want the cost associated with it, would be much better if there was some sort of control system to prevent it from happening...

[redrossero]

Actually, with the new changes that Clickbank made is not only in the MMO where you will get lots of refunds, but also on non-im products too. Last week I got two for a product where I never had one in a year before. Is like inviting you to get a refund now and who wouldn't?

[Matt James]

Actually, with the new changes that Clickbank made is not only in the MMO where you will get lots of refunds, but also on non-im products too. Last week I got two for a product where I never had one in a year before. Is like inviting you to get a refund now and who wouldn't?

Which new changes? I thought they'd actually made it harder to get refunds what with the 'submit a ticket' nonsense?

[Anonymous Affiliate]

Obviously going the Clickbank route equals higher refund rate, but it also means a myriad of passive affiliates that get you sales out of the blue without you having moved a finger. In my experience, suffering from an extra 10% refund rate is indeed worth snagging those "extra" affiliates.

[cesarsan]

Originally Posted by James Strong

MMO is make money online niche? I thought it was Massive Multiplayer Online - like WoW guides and such...lol, silly me.

Same here.

I was thinking "So the WOW and Everquest people are serial refunders".

If people can get something for free why would they pay for it? CB gives the products on a silver plate to anyone willing to spend 5 secs to write a refund request. Nature of the beast I guess.

[CDarklock]

Originally Posted by James Strong

I thought it was Massive Multiplayer Online - like WoW guides and such...

Same problem here. Too many TLAs. We're running out.

[Trader54]

Originally Posted by Anonymous Affiliate

Obviously going the Clickbank route equals higher refund rate, but it also means a myriad of passive affiliates that get you sales out of the blue without you having moved a finger. In my experience, suffering from an extra 10% refund rate is indeed worth snagging those "extra" affiliates.

Yes very true. I would still stick with clickbank because your sales are many times higher. Affiliates trust the system as they get paid directly from clickbank. As I stated above how refunds are so much higher but sales are also multiple times higher so the bottom line is much better with clickbank.