Don’t SPAM my Inbox – How To Lose All Your Subscribers

[Shlomi Khutoretsky]

One thing that feels very odd to me, is that situation where you open your inbox at the end of the day just to discover that it’s full of emails. Not that I don’t like receiving emails, I actually do. But I just hate when they all arrive from the same person.

I am telling you that because today I received nine email messages from the same person and it made me think if it’s some sort of a Marketing strategy or plain stupidity.

Email marketing is usually used to sending emails with the intention of enhancing the relationship of a merchant with its current or previous customers and to boost customer loyalty and repeat business.

Do you believe that bombarding My Inbox with nine to ten email messages a day promoting affiliate products can actually help that particular “email marketing professional” enhance is relationship with me? The only thing that I’d like to do when I come into a situation like that, is to press the REPORT SPAM button so I can send this person’s upcoming messages to the Hades of the World Wide Web.

In case of plain stupidity there’s not much to do, but if this person considers himself a professional, it is essential for him to give a second thought of his harming habits, and change his online marketing strategy forever.

I’ll unquestionably be pushing that report spam button.

[Doug English]

10 emails in one day from the same person is way over the top, but if you subscribed to this list and hit the 'report as spam' button then you are worse than him/her.

Hit the unsubscribe link and be done with it.

I'd really like to know if you DID subscribe to this list or if it was just plain spam. If you subscribed and are serious in your intentions about reporting it as spam, you should be 'unsubscribed' from the internet.

[Kevin Lam]

Hey Shlomi,

Unfortunately, that's a losing battle if you did subscribe to his non-sense email blasts. All you can do is unsubscribe. If he continues to hound you after that, then you have firm ground to stand on.

The reason I do not subscribe to any list .. I am on 2 list now (it was one), personally I do not like all the junk in my mailbox.. I much rather spend the time with my customers, clients, and members vs reading some marketing email about this product or that product that I know I am not goiong to buy anyways.

James

[Shlomi Khutoretsky]

Originally Posted by Doug English

10 emails in one day from the same person is way over the top, but if you subscribed to this list and hit the 'report as spam' button then you are worse than him/her.

Hit the unsubscribe link and be done with it.

I'd really like to know if you DID subscribe to this list or if it was just plain spam. If you subscribed and are serious in your intentions about reporting it as spam, you should be 'unsubscribed' from the internet.

I did subscribe to that persons list.

Getting 2-3 emails a day is too much but still normal, 10 promotional emails a day to me is spam.

The truth is that in this case i first emailed him to tell him its too much and unprofessional and then i unsubscribed from the list.

But usually if a person send me that amount of emails, to me it's spam.

[Realdeals228]

I think it is best to unsubscribe rather than report spam because unsubscribing guarantees that you will not get any more emails and reporting spam could get them in trouble and you did sign up for the list.

[Shlomi Khutoretsky]

Originally Posted by Realdeals228

I think it is best to unsubscribe rather than report spam because unsubscribing guarantees that you will not get any more emails and reporting spam could get them in trouble and you did sign up for the list.

I see no difference between getting viagra emails and that behavior - both sending me massive amount of promotional emails, do it right or stop doing it.

[CurtisN]

By signing up to someone's list, you give permission to that person to send you as many emails as they want. If you didn't subscribe to the list, then it would be spam.

It doesn't matter whether you like what they're doing or not. The fact of the matter is that you were subscribed to that list which gave that marketer permission to mail you to their heart's delight.

[Jeremy Kelsall]

The difference is, you gave the person PERMISSION to send you emails...

So, you gave them permission to send you emails - Likely, because you wanted a FREE product...then when a marketer markets to you, you report him as spam? lol

[Shlomi Khutoretsky]

Originally Posted by Jeremy Kelsall

The difference is, you gave the person PERMISSION to send you emails...

So, you gave them permission to send you emails - Likely, because you wanted a FREE product...then when a marketer markets to you, you report him as spam? lol

Again, if he does it in a non proportional way, to be fair with me, i won't be fair with him. Even if i gave permission, i did not in any case agreed to get 10 promotional emails a day from that person. if it was some interesting info, something i can learn from i would consider it as stupidity, but it was just uncloaked affiliate links with no minimal editing.

spam IMO

[Jeremy Kelsall]

Originally Posted by Shlomi Khutoretsky

Again, if he does it in a non proportional way, to be fair with me, i won't be fair with him. Even if i gave permission, i did not in any case agreed to get 10 promotional emails a day from that person. if it was some interesting info, something i can learn from i would consider it as stupidity, but it was just uncloaked affiliate links with no minimal editing.

spam IMO

That is why their are unsubscribe links...

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying this defending email marketers...I do very little of it myself, but the solution to the problem is simply unsubscribing.

I just don't understand why so many people take it so personal and make it so difficult.

[Shlomi Khutoretsky]

Let's say i'll start posting 10 promotional posts a day on the warrior forum

I did get permission to post on the forum, i am sure can have a promotional link on my SIG, but if I'll starting promoting affiliates links on posts I will get a spammer ban immediately, am i right?

So where is the difference?

[Mawardee(A)]

Just unsubscribe from him lol.

[Realdeals228]

Originally Posted by Shlomi Khutoretsky

Let's say i'll start posting 10 promotional posts a day on the warrior forum

I did get permission to post on the forum, i am sure can have a promotional link on my SIG, but if I'll starting promoting affiliates links on posts I will get a spammer ban immediately, am i right?

So where is the difference?

The difference is that there are forum rules against spamming. When you sign up here you agree to them. When you signed up for the list you agreed to receive that person's emails. If you don't want them just click the unsubscribe link and you will never here from them again.

[Jesus Perez]

Sometimes, you go to a car dealership because it was recommended by a friend.

Then you get approached by a sleezeball salesman. He starts pitching deals instead of building a relationship. What do you do?

You leave. Or ask for another salesman. (Probably leave)

Point is, you went in and gave them your presence. Then they blew it. Same thing here. You tried giving this guy/gal a shot. They blew it. Go find someone else.

[Shlomi Khutoretsky]

I have unsubscribed, I'm just making a point here.

Most non marketer subscribers would not search for the unsubscribe link!
they will press the spam button!

[GarrieWilson]

Originally Posted by Shlomi Khutoretsky

I have unsubscribed, I'm just making a point here.

Most non marketer subscribers would not search for the unsubscribe link!
they will press the spam button!

Your point is incorrect. Your action is incorrect.

If you can't see this, please log off and never reutrn.

As far as non IM subscribers, most actually unsubscribe.

[Shlomi Khutoretsky]

Originally Posted by GarrieWilson

As far as non IM subscribers, most actually unsubscribe.

And that you know from experience?

and also why should i log off and never return? because i m not agreeing with you? Sorry, you are right I will log off now and never return.

lol

[Paul M]

Originally Posted by Shlomi Khutoretsky

Let's say i'll start posting 10 promotional posts a day on the warrior forum

I did get permission to post on the forum, i am sure can have a promotional link on my SIG, but if I'll starting promoting affiliates links on posts I will get a spammer ban immediately, am i right?

So where is the difference?

Your example is completely void. When you sign up to the warrior forum
you agree not to spam the place and abide by the rules. When you sign
up to a marketers list you agree to receive there emails regardless of the
quantity or quality.

If you don't want to receive those promotional emails, then unsubscribing
is easy enough...or perhaps not subscribing in the first place would be
better.

The above doesn't mean I agree with the quantity there sending you,
but it still shouldn't be reported as spam if you agreed to receive it.


-Paul

[Black Hat Cat]

Originally Posted by Shlomi Khutoretsky

Let's say i'll start posting 10 promotional posts a day on the warrior forum

I did get permission to post on the forum, i am sure can have a promotional link on my SIG, but if I'll starting promoting affiliates links on posts I will get a spammer ban immediately, am i right?

So where is the difference?

If you have to ask, you're not old enough to be in this business.

[yonaswedo]

Sometimes I got difficult to unsubscribe. When it happened, I'll trace from where the domain hosted. I report it to hosting company as spam. Spam activity has agreed as a crime so whoever will try to fight.

[GarrieWilson]

Originally Posted by Shlomi Khutoretsky

And that you know from experience?

Yes.

And if "most" clicked spam, companies like Aweber would be black listed 24/7.

and also why should i log off and never return? because i m not agreeing with you?

No. It's because you don't understand how your actions harm every email marketer.

Was the marketer sending to much email? Yes but you gave permission.

A better way to handle this would be to use it as an example of how to get people to unsubscribe.

Sorry, you are right I will log off now and never return.

If we was only so lucky...

[Shlomi Khutoretsky]

I guess no luck for you.

[Alan Petersen]

I just don't understand people like Shlomi. If you don't like the messages or the frequency of the messages just unsubscribed and move on. By hitting the spam button you're damaging this persons business. You might not like the amount of emails he/she sends you but you did opt-in--so just opt-out.

I don't like how many companies do business (online and offline) so I don't do business with them. But I wouldn't want to shut them down just because I don't like their marketing.

I agree 10 emails in one a day is overboard but it's quiet arrogant for me or you to try and tell this person how to run their business. So you don't like his messages so it's spam. You don't like that he sent you a lot of emails so it's spam. Who are you to dictate how many emails is appropriate for this person to send? Did it ever occur to you that maybe there are people out there that love getting his/her emails? Just because you don't like it doesn't make it spam.

People should be free to run their business as they want as long as it's legal. And guess what. If you double opted in to their list all those 10 emails sent to you in one day were legit. Annoying, yes but not spam.

These are the same people who abuse the credit card charge back process or the PayPal dispute system. I wish people who abuse things like this--such as filing fake spam complaints could be penalized when proven wrong.

The reason I probably sound upset is because I just went through this. No, I don't send 10 emails in a day. I don't even email my list everyday. But someone on my list didn't like my emails, fair enough...but instead of taking 5 seconds to click on the unsubscribe button they complained to my web host of spam (even though I use Aweber with double opt-in).

I spent 3 days emailing reports and proof to my web host with IP address, time of confirmation, etc. just because one person filed a complaint. And I don't even know who this person is. We should at least be allowed to face our accuser. So yes, one complaint and I had to prove to my host that I was on the up and up to avoid my account from being terminated. If I could find out who this person was I would love to sue him for the hours of my time I had to spend on this because he was too dense to just simply click the unsubscribe button to never again get one of my emails and move on.

[JasonC.biz]

I had a guy once who I believe made a simple error, but yikes. I believe I got all 52 of his weekly emails in one day!

Great news though . He must have caught his error because I still got them every week. I didn't unsubscribe because I knew it was a mistake - sure was crazy though.

Jason

[DeanJames]

My personal view:

10 emails a day from one list subscription is wayyy over the top but it's not spam when you have voluntarily opted in. I am in agreement with the majority of the guys in the thread, the solution is to just opt out. To opt into a list then complain that the messages you are receiving is spam is not accurate or fair to the guy/girl running the business. It's subjective how many emails a day is 'too much'. To me 10 is insane but someone else may not mind one iota. Is 2 too many? How about 3? It's all personal opinion. Just unsubscribe and be at peace with the world What were you looking to achieve by reporting it as spam? Isn't it easier to just unsubscribe and carry on with the important stuff in your day?

[ExRat]

Hi Alan,

I just don't understand people like Shlomi. If you don't like the messages or the frequency of the messages just unsubscribed and move on. By hitting the spam button you're damaging this persons business. You might not like the amount of emails he/she sends you but you did opt-in--so just opt-out.

I totally agree with the points made by most of the responders here that if you are unhappy with an unsubscription, you should just unsubscribe.

But conversely, I do (kind of) agree with Shlomi that many people will hit the spam button instead.

And I do also understand the psychology behind their thinking.

These prospects are jaded - not just from internet marketing but from ALL marketing. They have been exposed to 'bait and switch' and all of the other cliches over and over and over - not just from businesses, but from governments, spouses, offspring, bosses - everyone around them.

Their resulting actions are irresponsible, not thought through and not helpful. But THAT is the nature (in general) of being a consumer. Many don't have time to consider all of the rights and wrongs of the world in order to react accordingly.

In the face of most marketing they feel entirely powerless to avoid it/respond to it appropriately and consequently respond with a knee-jerk reaction. Let's face it, it is a marketer's dream to have a captive audience for their pitch - therefore we often attempt to 'corner' them into this position. If you corner anything, it may lash out indiscriminately.

When they open their inbox, all of a sudden they are EMPOWERED. They have a 'weapon' to fight back, and instead of fighting fire with fire, they can actually strike back double and hit marketers where it really hurts.

Whether this is right or wrong is not relevant to them. This is why they will pointlessly rant at a customer service rep over the phone, all the while knowing in the back of their mind that the rep's only responsibility is to 'field' the call and send the customer away with some kind of satisfaction - their job is to take the ranting on the chin, appease and then move onto the next one.

The company knows what causes customers to rant (and the customer knows this) and they see it as a necessary trade off for being able to increase profits by cutting corners. Better to have the profit and pay a fraction of it for the rep to take the flak.

So the customer's actions are pointless and illogical. The company's actions are not. The customer takes the best option (in their mind) available and let's someone have both barrels. Nothing changes except the customer feels EMPOWERED - even though they are actually not, and even though the rep who receives the rant has no authority, is not directly responsible and doesn't really deserve it.

Many things that customers/prospects do are illogical, pointless and annoying.

But as marketers you have a choice - you either create an illogical and virtually pointless rant of your own. OR you choose to fully understand that YOU are the marketer and that they are not - therefore it is in your interest to understand and predict the prospects' likely reactions in order that you are prepared for it and can maximise the gains for yourself and your company.

IF you suddenly and obviously overstep the mark and deliver your marketing in an unusual manner that is likely to get 'in the face' of your prospects, then be wise enough to forsee this occurence and predict their response.

They will likely (as has been spelled out above) feel violated and abused and they will feel semi-helpless because one of their only available responses is to contact you (via email, not instant message - email takes longer) and they will probably assume that you will ignore it.

Therefore they may justify to themselves that YOU overstepped the mark first, therefore they can too by reporting you for spam even though technically you didn't.

Why do you think so many 'consumers' that end up here as marketers consider 'spamming' to be sending too much email, or sending it too regularly? It's probably because they have individually, but ultimately en masse, decided to redefine spamming as 'sending too many pushy emails' in order to justify their actions that they know will damage a person's business.

In their minds, they are empowering themselves against a more powerful enemy by using their initiative in what is (in their minds) the only manner left available to them.

In many other totally different scenarios, this would be applauded as an example of human resourcefulness and a determination to win.

Therefore it's much better as a marketer to understand this, and act appropriately to either -

a) avoid it

b) ensure that the gains are greater than the loss

I don't see it as being complicated to understand. But on that basis -

Don’t SPAM my Inbox – How To Lose All Your Subscribers

Why do business people come here and say such things? Have you never heard of or considered a 'churn and burn' strategy? This is where the strategy means that you WILL lose a quantity of prospects through your marketing choices, but you believe that you are funnelling enough in at the front end to replace them (or increase the size of your list overall).

This is just another approach to business, which has many plus points (EG you can market really hard). If that doesn't appeal to you or it crosses some personal ethical boundary, fine. Your choice. But to suggest that anyone who markets hard and therefore is bound to have some 'casualties' is going to 'lose all their subscribers' is just not so clever.

Whatever your style/approach, you will do a lot better if you try to fully understand all of the other approaches - many of which will be utilised by your competitors. Because it's more than likely that some of your competitors will fully understand your approach, and will be striving to lessen the impact of it on the marketplace.

If you choose to write off your competitors' approach as 'bound to fail' purely because it doesn't match your own view of the way things 'should be done', then you are being naive and leaving yourself vulnerable.

[milan]

Originally Posted by Shlomi Khutoretsky

I did subscribe to that persons list.
... But usually if a person send me that amount of emails, to me it's spam.

Those emails were not unsolicited. You subscribed to that list, and be honest, you reported the email just to harm the sender. And you failed, because that's not who you reported and hurt!

In reality you only harmed the genuine email delivery company the person has used! They provide a genuine service to deliver emails that people opt in for. And you hurt their business by reporting THEM as spammers.

[winebuddy]

I just sent out a series to 5300 subscribes - 4 timed emails in one day and I got a lot of conversions. I also lost 17 subscribers... out of 5300! My regular daily optin rate is 39 new subscribers.

Just so you are sure - All 4 of the emails were PROMOTIONAL SALES emails.

Did I spam them? NO - every one WANTED my emails except for 17 out of 5300 - less than 1%.

Just aggressive marketing for a day - NOT SPAM

edited to say that the number of people who hit the "spam" button was less than a tenth of 1%

[Bjarne Eldhuset]

After I subscribed to this thread, I've gotten 10 e-mails in a day.

Could you please stop replying to this thread, or I will press the spam-button.







(just kidding)