Forum Mods - I'm gonna have a rant, Join Me

[anton343]

Ok guys

Here's whats got my back up.

I recently posted a thread and someone has deleted it. I have no idea why, no one has contacted me to explain it's just gone

Now the laughable thing .....Was it a controversial thread - NO WAY


The thread was entitled "What do you do at 3.30am on a Sunday Morning"

I was working away and took a break to visit the forum and just thought I'd see how many others work all sorts of hours leaning IM.

Result - Deleted, maybe all the mods sleep at that time and felt somehow I was putting them down (said tongue in cheek please don't delete me)


Right I am gonna take a stab in thee dark at why the the thread was deleted. I had posted a thread a few days earlier and I linked from the thread that I posted to this earlier thread.

Is this allowed or not, I honestly don't know. I have seen other links to threads in posts ie someone may ask a question and they get a reply "View this previous thread" and I can't find anything on the forum rules so this is a total guess

Ok if there is something wrong with a post I make Delete it, I have no problem with that.

That's why the mods are here. But please tell me why so I don't make the same mistake again. If I don't know the mistakes I am making how can I correct them?

If you are reading this and you did delete the original thread can you please tell me why

Rant Over

Have a Great Day

Anton

[CurtisN]

Did it have anything to do with making money? Perhaps it may have been moved to the OT section...

[anton343]

Originally Posted by CurtisN

Did it have anything to do with making money? Perhaps it may have been moved to the OT section...

no mate nothing to do with making money other than the fact I am prepared to put the hours in to do so

[BlueSquares]

The mods don't zap threads...members do. So I doubt your rant will be answered.

Common reasons for getting zapped:

off topic
self promotional
rude/trolling/insulting

[Steven Carl Kelly]

Read this:

Members Are Moderators

It doesn't specify whether it takes more than one "report post" submission to make a thread disappear. So I'm not exactly sure how they handle it behind the scenes, but the way it reads apparently if someone starts a thread you don't like, you can "make it disappear" by hitting "report post" on the very first post in the thread.

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, because that seems like "too much power" to the users, but that's how I'm reading it.

[anton343]

Originally Posted by BlueSquares

The mods don't zap threads...members do. So I doubt your rant will be answered.

Common reasons for getting zapped:

off topic
self promotional
rude/trolling/insulting

It certainly wasn't any of the above Why would anyone wanna zap that thread there must be some weird people on here.

How does a member zap a thread

[redicelander]

I think he just explained how a member zaps a thread.

[anton343]

Originally Posted by Steven Carl Kelly

Read this:

Members Are Moderators

It doesn't specify whether it takes more than one "report post" submission to make a thread disappear. So I'm not exactly sure how they handle it behind the scenes, but the way it reads apparently if someone starts a thread you don't like, you can "make it disappear" by hitting "report post" on the very first post in the thread.

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, because that seems like "too much power" to the users, but that's how I'm reading it.

hi the thread had quite a few replies because like me there was quite a few users in the UK putting the hours in so it wasn't done on the 1st post

[anton343]

Originally Posted by redicelander

I think he just explained how a member zaps a thread.

got that was posting at the same time so must have missed it thanks

[redicelander]

Want me to report your first post and see if the thread goes away? I don't know either if it takes just one report click or not.

[zulfnore]

I replied to that thread and as far as I could see from it, there were no reason why it should be deleted, zapped or flagged.

[Steven Carl Kelly]

I had a thread deleted the other day, and it was full of "thanks" posts, but it got deleted just the same.

[Paul Myers]

If the members modded it by hitting the report post icon, you won't get an explanation, since there's no practical way for them to give one.

If a moderator deleted it, you won't get an explanation, since there isn't enough time in the day to explain every decision you make while moderating. On top of that, too many people who get an explanation decide to start debates or even fights over it.

When I was moderating here early on, I went through a period where I explained things. I got over it, real fast. There is nothing good accomplished by making that a regular habit. Seriously. Nothing.

The people who are going to learn will figure it out on their own. The ones who don't want to learn will flood the forum with posts questioning the decisions and policies, eventually escalating to either leaving or becoming obsessed with mod-bashing. Everyone's time gets wasted, and the signal-to-noise ratio gets all screwed up.

If you're not spamming the forum, using posts as an excuse to pitch products, or doing other destructive things, don't worry about a few posts getting deleted. Especially if it's likely they were just a bit off-topic, and otherwise harmless. It happens to all of us.


Paul

[ExRat]

Hi,

I think it takes into account post count of the reporters of the thread. It usually takes a couple of reports, 2-3 people.

There are some mods who I think then look at it and confirm deletion. They can choose to leave it instead too.

Don't worry about it, move on.

It's always worth checking first if it's been moved to off topic, especially if it's off topic.

Complaining about deleted threads is not wise. 99.9% of the time it has ever been discussed, it has turned out that there was a good reason, forum democracy worked and the people who work hard behind the scenes to provide this useful platform for us all have to tolerate more accusations and abuse and the person complaining ends up not looking so good.

Just telling you the way it is as I have seen it.

On a side note, it's also quite helpful and humbling to be reminded that even though to us as post authors, our words are golden and worthy of eternal preservation, in retrospect it's good to be reminded occasionally that we are sharing this 'word space' with other people and when they come here hoping to go away feeling good/inspired/well read etc, sometimes the things that to us are the most useful words ever written, are not always to others - or to us in retrospect.

Yes, I'm guilty as charged and regularly humbled by the more reliable wordsmiths in here.

[anton343]

Ok if I had made a mistake why didn't they use this

The Add An Infraction Button:

The add an infraction to a member button is for warning another member that they are making some mistake. Like crazy sig files or insulting other members. This helps us out a lot because it allows you to warn a member without a report post also appearing in the Mod forum.

If members use the report post button to report a sig file it causes us a lot of unnecessary hassle when the member could have just used the infraction button and warned them directly.

All infractions expire in one hour so if you happen to get one don't freak out and don't start a post about it. :-) Just heed what the member is trying to warn you about.


Honestly there was nothing insulting etc in the post it was just general chat about the hours we work I can practically remember the post word for word so here goes. Without the link I put in the OP

Title - What do you do at 3.30am on a sunday morning?

Hi folks

it's 3.30am here in the UK and I just thought I'd take a break and see what others get up to at this time of day.

The reason I am here is because I recently made a post about how I had just started to make little bit of cash on the net "View it Here" (link Missing for this example

Now I want to take things to the next level and I know I will suceed so here I am determined to do anything that needs to be done to achieve this.

So as I said in my previous post

Never give up and put the work in

To your success

Anton


Now I cannot swear that's it's word for word but it's pretty darn close

Hey maybe it's self promotional because I said I will suceed or maybe it's offensive to people that sleep

Seems to me there are some petty people about

[anton343]

Originally Posted by zulfnore

I replied to that thread and as far as I could see from it, there were no reason why it should be deleted, zapped or flagged.

cheers mate

It was nice chatting to you at time of morning

[ExRat]

Hi Anton,

The add an infraction to a member button is for warning another member that they are making some mistake. Like crazy sig files or insulting other members. This helps us out a lot because it allows you to warn a member without a report post also appearing in the Mod forum.

You are making some mistake.

If someone gets a thread deleted they would have preferred an infraction. If someone gets an infraction they would have preferred it to be deleted.

Sods law. You can't win. I've never been a proper forum moderator but that's probably because from the outside I can see how incredibly frustrating it would be. I've seen from the outside the above scenario (the one in italics) many times over.

HTH

PS I read the thread you are referring to (no, I didn't report it).

But maybe I should have -

Hi folks

it's 3.30am here in the UK and I just thought I'd take a break and see what others get up to at this time of day.

The reason I am here is because I recently made a post about how I had just started to make little bit of cash on the net "View it Here" (link Missing for this example

Now I want to take things to the next level and I know I will suceed so here I am determined to do anything that needs to be done to achieve this.

So as I said in my previous post

Never give up and put the work in

To your success

Anton

There is no reason for your post to be in main discussion which is about making money. It's totally off-topic and has no point to it. It just received a bunch of replies from people saying they also stay up late.

It should have been in off topic.

[Paul Myers]

Seems to me there are some petty people about

You are doing precisely what Roger warned you about. You don't want to go there.

I noticed the thread title, but didn't read it, so I can't say for sure. If your summary is accurate (and I have no reason to think it's not), then the answer is simple. It very likely got pulled, by whichever means, just for being off topic.

Hardly something to start a debate over, which is the direction you're heading. This is why people don't get explanations. It does no good, as I said above.


Paul

[anton343]

Originally Posted by ExRat

Don't worry about it, move on.

Just telling you the way it is as I have seen it.

On a side note, it's also quite helpful and humbling to be reminded that even though to us as post authors, our words are golden and worthy of eternal preservation, in retrospect it's good to be reminded occasionally that we are sharing this 'word space' with other people and when they come here hoping to go away feeling good/inspired/well read etc, sometimes the things that to us are the most useful words ever written, are not always to others - or to us in retrospect.

Yes, I'm guilty as charged and regularly humbled by the more reliable wordsmiths in here.

Hi Mate

Thanks for your advice

rant over - I've moved on

I will however be up most of the night again so I may come back and start another post

[Martin Luxton]

Anton,

You're not the only one this evening.

Admin (Allens Says) started a thread today asking "Which Acronyms Are Used Regularly On The WF?"

The thread was going nicely and then, for no reason, it got zapped.

Imagine that, the owner of this forum being zapped by his own members.

Some people have no gratitude!

Martin

[ExRat]

Hi Anton,

rant over - I've moved on

Very smart move.

I will however be up most of the night again so I may come back and start another post

Very dumb move.

Clarification - anyone can post here anytime they like as far as I know.

But, it's wise to make your post useful to other people and wise plus considerate to others to put it in the correct designated area.

The moment you start self-serving or trying to get one over on people or some kind of power struggle you will lose.

Why? Because the admins are so aggressive?

Not at all.

But the ordinary members who have been here a bit longer and continually tried to maintain the values and benefits and integrity of this place will try to do their work for them because they feel that they owe them that due to the value they have received, and they know that by acting in that way and maintaining those things will help to guarantee it's continuation.

Personally, I don't want to have to navigate around your small talk threads when I am using the main discussion to find good information fast. That's why there's an off topic forum. So use it please. And use main discussion for it's intended purpose. 24 hours a day if you like.

[pjCheviot]

Originally Posted by Martin Luxton

Anton,

You're not the only one this evening.

Admin (Allens Says) started a thread today asking "Which Acronyms Are Used Regularly On The WF?"

The thread was going nicely and then, for no reason, it got zapped.

Imagine that, the owner of this forum being zapped by his own members.

Some people have no gratitude!

Martin

Martin

That thread began life last year (I think) and a "one-liner" came along today, chirped in - and then others followed on. Someone maybe spotted it as an old thread being dragged up and deleted it because of this??

Not sure obviously.

[Paul Myers]

I will however be up most of the night again so I may come back and start another post

If it's the same sort of thing, it's likely to get deleted. If it was a mod who deleted the first one, and they see a second that's the same thing, they're likely to ban you for some period.

I just (about 2 hours ago) got an email from someone wondering why he didn't get an explanation about a post that was nuked, and re-posted the same thing after it was deleted. According to him, he got banned for it.


Paul

[Paul Myers]

PJ,

If they flagged the new post(s), the whole thread won't have been deleted. It will just have gotten sent back to wherever it was in the queue before it was dredged back up.


Paul

[alexei_aus]

i would just say, get over it.

just make sure you follow forum's TOS and hope that moderator sends you a message if they change something

[ExRat]

Hi Paul,

Roger,

If they flagged the new post(s), the whole thread won't have been deleted. It will just have gotten sent back to wherever it was in the queue before it was dredged back up.

I think that was meant for PJCheviot, no?

Hi Alexei,

hope that moderator sends you a message if they change something

I don't know if you mean moderators in terms of members sending a message when they infract you? But if you mean the actual mods, I think it's worth mentioning that I don't think (from what I've been told or read) that mods are in the habit of continually explaining themselves. As far as I know, there is SO much crap going on that they have to deal with (stuff most of us never see because they are dealing with it EG bots doing tons of stuff) that they simply don't have time to pander to our sensitivities.

Yet when threads like this happen (my thread got deleted threads) people often say 'they could at least have explained it to me' - EG - Anton said -

no one has contacted me to explain it's just gone

Your justification for this request is -

If I don't know the mistakes I am making how can I correct them?

You hit the nail on the head Anton. I couldn't have said it better myself.

THAT is why this forum is better than others. You don't just get handed answers (which simply trains people to expect to have answers handed to them.)

Here, you are not only expected to,but also encouraged and rewarded for using your INITIATIVE.

Or you can just go to other forums where it's acceptable not to have to think for yourself.There are real benefits to the way things are here. Great benefits. Because like-minded people are attracted to like-minded people. Think about it....

[pjCheviot]

Originally Posted by ExRat

Hi Paul,



I think that was meant for PJCheviot, no?

Probably was, Roger! - and Paul, yes that makes sense.

**EDIT** In fact that is what has happened - the original thread is back in the "old" place (August 2008)

Thanks

[Steven Fullman]

Isn't it sad that valuable members such as Roger and Paul have to/choose to continuously fight these stupid fires on behalf of everyone?

They have so much wisdom to share...to anyone who can be bothered to listen.

To the OP. Spend less time typing, more time reading. And even more time applying.

Steve

[anton343]

Originally Posted by Steven Fullman

Isn't it sad that valuable members such as Roger and Paul have to/choose to continuously fight these stupid fires on behalf of everyone?

They have so much wisdom to share...to anyone who can be bothered to listen.

To the OP. Spend less time typing, more time reading. And even more time applying.

Steve

here's a perfect example of someone knocking a newbie that doesn't realise what he's done wrong.

hey so I can't take a break and make a post when I want? I suggest you take your own advice mate unless you've something helpful to say

Post over for me I'm over it and moving on. Now I realise my mistake (off topic) it won't happen again that's all I needed to know without the insults. See I've learned something and I'm applying it.

[Steven Carl Kelly]

Even some of us who have many posts here also don't know what we've done wrong at times -- and can't figure it out, either. I understand the problems in moderating a busy forum and I don't envy anyone doing that. As one who had a thread recently deleted and can't figure out a reason why, it does suck to be in the dark about the reason.

[Kay King]

example of someone knocking a newbie that doesn't realise what he's done wrong

How is someone who joined 2 years ago a "newbie" here?

hey so I can't take a break and make a post when I want?

Sure, you can - if you can post it in the correct section such as the OT. If a thread disappears, drop it and move on. Very little posted here is of such significance that it must remain for posterity. That would include how late you stayed awake last night - which is Off Topic.

Steven - I know the thread you mean and I wondered about that, too. I think we have a few newer members who are hitting "report" without knowing exactly what it is they are reporting. Maybe we should hand out awards for who can jump to the quickest conclusion. But at least they are trying to help keep it clean here.

kay

[John Taylor]

Originally Posted by anton343

here's a perfect example of someone knocking a newbie that doesn't realise what he's done wrong.

Nope, it's someone who has been wasting his time
trying to help someone who isn't prepared to accept
constructive feedback

hey so I can't take a break and make a post when I want?

Acually, no you can't. You have no rights here, only
priveledges. Which I might add can be taken away
very quickly.

I suggest you take your own advice mate unless you've something helpful to say

Now THAT deserves an infraction for insulting other
members.

Post over for me I'm over it and moving on. Now I realise my mistake (off topic) it won't happen again that's all I needed to know without the insults. See I've learned something and I'm applying it.

Yes, we heard that the first time.. it didn't happen.
You're still here not applying any of the feedback
that people have taken the time to give you.

This is a perfect example of the kind of time wasting
toing and froing that moderators have to put up with
when they offer an explanation; And exactly why they
don't get into debates with people who think they are
entitled to an explanation.

John

[Chris Drinkwater]

Didn't Allens post get deleted once?

[Paul Myers]

John,

Now THAT deserves an infraction for insulting other members.

I'm kornfewzedd. I just re-read Steve's post (#28) and Anton's post (#29), and I can't find anything in them where either said anything at all about the other person.

Doesn't an insult require saying something bad about someone? I'm not seeing that in the post you replied to.

In fact, I just re-read every post by Anton in this thread and, other than saying there are "some weird people in here" and some "petty people about," I don't see anything that even looks like an insult from him. Neither of those are directed at anyone in particular, and have at least the virtue of being true, if mostly irrelevant to the discussion.

Steve commented on "stupid fires," which is clearly not a personal reference either.


Paul

[Paul Myers]

Chris,

Didn't Allens post get deleted once?

More than once. It happens to just about anyone with opinions.


Paul

[John Taylor]

Paul,

You're right. I was probably seeing a pattern
in Anton's overall posting that created the
impression of being insulting without actually
crossing the line.

Maybe that's why I didn't go as far as giving
the infraction.. I simply said it "deserves" one.

John

[Paul Myers]

John,

I was probably seeing a pattern in Anton's overall posting that created the impression of being insulting without actually crossing the line.

That's something we've all done. It's especially common when we sense frustration in someone. We expect some sort of lashback, and we tend to see what we expect.

You know this, but it's probably worth stating for the folks here who're newer to online discussions: When you see threads spiral out of control (unlike this one, which isn't bad at all), it's most often because one or more of the people in the thread is frustrated, and reading things in a defensive mode. If you expect to be attacked, you'll look for it and sometimes see it when it isn't there. Many people will go on the offensive, intending to preempt the expected challenge.

This gets really bad when the person feeling that way thinks they're being told, "You're wrong," whether they are or not.

This dynamic is the thing that causes folks to get crazy and argue about moderator decisions, or to take slaps at the group in general over their flagging, and thus removing, a post that the originator thinks is acceptable.

Moderators are people, too, and generally well-informed regarding what's actually good or bad for the group as a whole. They know they're right much more often than folks with less experience, so they tend to be even more defensive or insistent about their rectitude. Arguing with them is rarely productive because of that. And face it, when you're arguing with a mod, you usually really are wrong.

A classic example of why these sorts of decisions, when made by a mod, aren't explained. And why they lead to problem situations.


Paul

[Paul Myers]

Roger,

I think that was meant for PJCheviot, no?

Yes. Thanks. I've edited the post to correct the mistake.


Paul

[Andyhenry]

I think a variation on this post should be a sticky - it's basically summing-up what we've all learned here over the years - Don't post just for the sake of it, someone will indoubtedly wonder why if it's not clear, and some of those people will assume a negative slant and infract or report the post.

In this case the original thread was started with:

"The reason I am here is because I recently made a post about how I had just started to make little bit of cash on the net "View it Here" "

If I saw that I'd probably assume that this was just someone trying to get more views of their original post - and if THAT post contained a link to their website/product - depending on what mood I was in, I think I could easily hallucinate that this was probably the 'real' reason they bothered to make a post just to remind people about that post.

It's funny what you can read into a situation when everything is just text-based.

I think it's good here and it keeps you on your toes and reminds you to think about what you're posting and why you're posting it.

I sometimes post things that are just what I'm thinking about at the time and with more thought I probably wouldn't (like this post).

Just observe it going on and get on with life is my suggestion.

There's far too many good people and too much good information here to let any minor downsides get to you.

Andy

[kennethtang]

I work till 4 or 5 am every day -- deleting posts that ask why their post was deleted ROFL!

[wincex]

Originally Posted by kennethtang

I work till 4 or 5 am every day -- deleting posts that ask why their post was deleted ROFL!

Well, that's a hard job, by doing so you won't have so much time left for your own daily tasks

[kennethtang]

And face it, when you're arguing with a mod, you usually really are wrong.

Hear! Hear!

insistent about their rectitude.

Oh yes, mods are very insistent about their rectums.

[kennethtang]

Originally Posted by wincex

Well, that's a hard job, by doing so you won't have so much time left for your own daily tasks

Yep. That's why I'm the poorest mod on the board

[Harvey.Segal]

Originally Posted by kennethtang

Oh yes, mods are very insistent about their rectums.

You may have misunderstood the meaning of bum marketing.

[kennethtang]

Originally Posted by Harvey.Segal

You may have misunderstood the meaning of bum marketing.

Nope, I did not. I'm pretty sure they stand on the streets with their backs facing out instead of the front.

[Martin Luxton]

Originally Posted by kennethtang

I work till 4 or 5 am every day -- deleting posts that ask why their post was deleted ROFL!

Well, there's the problem, Kenneth.

You're not working enough hours.

Martin

[Imran Naseem]

I personally think sleep is important

I used to stay up till 4 am but my body could not cope with the strain on my health.

[kennethtang]

Originally Posted by Martin Luxton

Well, there's the problem, Kenneth.

You're not working enough hours.

Martin

Martin, did you just come off the graveyard shift? And is that a whip in your hand? (...Slave driver...)

[anton343]

Originally Posted by John Taylor

Paul,

You're right. I was probably seeing a pattern
in Anton's overall posting that created the
impression of being insulting without actually
crossing the line.

Maybe that's why I didn't go as far as giving
the infraction.. I simply said it "deserves" one.

John

I am sure some people could take many things said on here as an insult if they took that view as Paul said "Doesn't an insult require saying something bad about someone? I'm not seeing that in the post you replied to"

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

John,I'm kornfewzedd. I just re-read Steve's post (#28) and Anton's post (#29), and I can't find anything in them where either said anything at all about the other person.

Doesn't an insult require saying something bad about someone? I'm not seeing that in the post you replied to.

In fact, I just re-read every post by Anton in this thread and, other than saying there are "some weird people in here" and some "petty people about," I don't see anything that even looks like an insult from him. Neither of those are directed at anyone in particular, and have at least the virtue of being true, if mostly irrelevant to the discussion.

Steve commented on "stupid fires," which is clearly not a personal reference either.

Paul

Ok I have been reading the comments and since I have time to spare and the priveledge of being able to make a post here I go

I am not here to insult anyone or start any arguments, I am here to learn and still consider myself a newbie although it was asked how anyone could be a newbie that has been a member for 2 years.

I could say I am a slow learner but I could also tell you that in the 1st 18 months apart from my initial few visits I very rarely visited here.

It is only in the last 2-3 months that I have spent more time on here, purchased a few WSO's etc and started to learn a lot more.

So yes I still consider myself a newbie and as a newbie I was just asking why my post may have been deleted so I don't make the same mistake. Ok so I had a rant about it, I can't see why that should cause so much fuss.

The funny thing is, it is only in the last few months (since I have been more active on here)
that I have started to make money on the Internet. I even made a post about it which was linked to from the post that got deleted. So no I will not link to it but if you search for my threads you will find it.

If anyone feels insulted by anything I have said in this or any other posts/threads I have made I apologise

Now back to learning some more guys and next time I get a post deleted i will just grin and bear it

[R Hagel]

Originally Posted by Andyhenry

In this case the original thread was started with:

"The reason I am here is because I recently made a post about how I had just started to make little bit of cash on the net "View it Here" "

If I saw that I'd probably assume that this was just someone trying to get more views of their original post - and if THAT post contained a link to their website/product - depending on what mood I was in, I think I could easily hallucinate that this was probably the 'real' reason they bothered to make a post just to remind people about that post.

I thought the same thing too, Andy.

Anton,

The funny thing is, it is only in the last few months (since I have been more active on here)
that I have started to make money on the Internet. I even made a post about it which was linked to from the post that got deleted. So no I will not link to it but if you search for my threads you will find it.

I went ahead and checked out the thread you mention in the post above. You point to your signature link at least three times and mention your membership site at least once in that thread. In other words, you're original "I'm making money" thread looks self-promotional.

Then you link to that thread from another unrelated thread. Yep, that's going to look like you're promoting a thread (one that probably gets you sig file clicks since you're telling people to click on your sig file).

So we can't say for sure why your post was deleted -- maybe because it was off topic, maybe because of the smell of self-promotion, etc. Who knows.

However, add this tip to the new knowledge you're acquiring and applying today: Avoid pointing to your sig file. Folks know it's there and they'll click if you want. If you tell people to go there, then your post is turning towards promotion rather than discussion.

Cheers,
Becky