My Take on the Stomping Rampage

[drmani]

Jay Abraham teaches 'taking the risk out of a transaction'

If you get twice as many refunds but make 5 times as many sales, isn't it worth doing?

A free trial is just that. A TRIAL.

No obligation on the part of the 'trier'.

All responsibility rests on the 'marketer' - to convince a prospect to turn a 'shy yes' into a resounding vote of confidence that turns into evangelism.

Neither can be bought by bullying, enforcing a pseudo-reciprocity or guilt complex, or indeed anything less than providing stellar, outstanding VALUE.

All success
Dr.Mani

[Lynn Terry]

I'm an internet marketer, and in most of my niches I am my own target market. A great position, because I can guage things on my own response.

I was actually excited that they were finally releasing stand-alone products outside of the $800/month membership option. It gives me an opportunity to 'trial' their quality and depth at a reasonable no-obligation price.

But the fact that I was thrilled at that opportunity threw up my "marketing flag" too - making me realize that the fact that I was happy about the backend offers means I am obviously their target market (and ideal member). I've reviewed StSE 2.0 & The Net Effect, and am going to choose a couple more products to review from the line-up before I make my final decision... but I'll probably be standing in line when they re-open membership (unless I find a back door before then).

[Mike Hill]

BRB [decided to edit my rant and instead I'm going to launch a new product but include 15 upsells.. LOL]

For those of you that are tired of receiving the same emails.

Why don't you unsubscribe from some of these lists?

Just a thought...

Oh... The Upsell issue.

Upselling, while annoying to many of you, is a great marketing tactic.

I get it... it annoys some of you.

But all you have to do on the upsell page is: Scroll down to the bottom of the page, skip over the very beautiful and enticing order button. And click on the inept "no thanks" link. And go on about your business.

I have to honestly say that some of the criticism here sounds like jealousy.

[Mike Hill]

Originally Posted by marcanthony

For those of you that are tired of receiving the same emails.

Why don't you unsubscribe from some of these lists?

Just a thought...

Oh... The Upsell issue.

Upselling, while annoying to many of you, is a great marketing tactic.

I get it... it annoys some of you.

But all you have to do on the upsell page is: Scroll down to the bottom of the page, skip over the very beautiful and enticing order button. And click on the inept "no thanks" link. And go on about your business.

I have to honestly say that some of the criticism here sounds like jealousy.

You read my mind... LOL

Mike Hill

[Bob Monie]

Originally Posted by Jenn Dize

Hey, this happened to me last night. It turned out that my order hadn't gone through. I tried it again and it worked! You should be taken through some upsell pages and then on to confirmation. An e-mail confirm should arrive soon after.

If you try it again and it still doesn't work you should give them a call. Word is (via Lynn Terry's excellent coverage of it at Stomping the Search Engines 2 (FAQ) ) that they have several full time staffers answering calls to field order problems.

Good luck!

Thanx for your help Jenn, iv tried about 40 times now and keep getting that same message when i know for sure that all my details are correct.

Would you happen to know where i can find their contact support number so i can ring them. I cant seem to find it anywhere.

Thanx

[Shaun OReilly]

Originally Posted by marcanthony

Oh... The Upsell issue.

Upselling, while annoying to many of you, is a great marketing tactic.

I get it... it annoys some of you.

But all you have to do on the upsell page is: Scroll down to the bottom of the page, skip over the very beautiful and enticing order button. And click on the inept "no thanks" link. And go on about your business.

I have to honestly say that some of the criticism here sounds like jealousy.

Upselling is a great marketing STRATEGY - used tastefully.

I don't mind an upsell at all. AN upsell - two max. Over that and I back
out of the order process. But that's just me. I'm mature enough to
know that others think differently and that's OK.

Some people love multiple upsells. Some people hate multiple upsells.
Others are indifferent to multiple upsells. Different strokes for different
folks.

Some marketers are happy to put their customers through Upsell Hell
as long as their numbers show it's worth it to them. Other marketers
prefer not to put their customers through Upsell Hell no matter how
better their numbers will be. Again, different strokes for different folks.

No one method is 'the way'. I'm just crystal clear on the way I prefer
to treat my customers and the way I like to be treated as a customer.

For example, yesterday GoDaddy had a $0.99 deal on dot com domains.
Would I like a dot com domain for $0.99? Sure. But not from GoDaddy.
I detest their inane checkout process with mutliple upsells. I choose not
to go through that and will spend MORE money elsewhere - happily.

It's different strokes for different folks.

You can only attract customers to the degree that you're prepared to
repel. Some methods turn people on, and others turn people off or have
them running away completely.

As for jealousy that's not the case for me. I wish the StomperNet team
all the best with their efforts attracting their type of customer with their
methods. It'll just not be me.

Interestingly, I purchased Stomping the Search Engines 1.0 years ago
and it was a simple checkout process so I bought.

I purchased a membership to StomperNet at $800/month and it was a
simple checkout process so I bought.

Their checkout process turned me off this time so I backed up. I've got
most of their core material anyway.

Best wishes,

Shaun

[Lance K]

Originally Posted by marcanthony

Upselling, while annoying to many of you, is a great marketing tactic.

I get it... it annoys some of you.

But all you have to do on the upsell page is: Scroll down to the bottom of the page, skip over the very beautiful and enticing order button. And click on the inept "no thanks" link. And go on about your business.

The fact that it's a great marketing tactic hasn't been questioned. The manner of it's application has. While I too simply clicked the "no thnanks" button, that's not the point. Some people are so annoyed that they're passing up the entire offer.

BUT...

What people need to think about is that Brad and Andy are very successful and smart. They surely have their finger on the pulse. If they start to see abandonment due to the upsells that justifies a change, they'll change it.

And I can honestly say that I thought each upsell was a genuine good value. No so with some other promotions. But these sure were. I just passed due to the amount of info I already have to digest and implement and the limited time I have to do so.

Originally Posted by marcanthony

I have to honestly say that some of the criticism here sounds like jealousy.

Come on, don't be so fast to discount the opinion of fellow Warriors simply because you're on the other side of the fence.

[Lance K]

I wrote this as part of my last reply, but I thought it may warrant it's own reply so perhaps more people would see it...

What people need to think about is that Brad and Andy are very successful and smart. They surely have their finger on the pulse. If they start to see abandonment due to the upsells that justifies a change, they'll change it.

[Phil Craig]

Boy,

This sure morphed into an interesting thread.

Frankly, I don't mind up sells, down sells, OTOs, twisted OTOs, any of it. It's proven marketing.

Back to my point...

My point was to the affiliates promoting the product to their lists:

If a subscriber (me) receives 7 email messages from different authors (I did) all saying something to the effect of "yay, the site is up... go now," ... that, in my opinion, is lazy and ineffective.

The mailer didn't think through the fact that their subscriber (me) is on several lists.

So when you promote something that is being promoted by a lot of other people, why not be different and offer value? Stand out from the rest instead of just pimping the product.

That's the point.

Phil

[J Elizabeth Dize]

Originally Posted by Bob Monie

Thanx for your help Jenn, iv tried about 40 times now and keep getting that same message when i know for sure that all my details are correct.

Would you happen to know where i can find their contact support number so i can ring them. I cant seem to find it anywhere.

Thanx

Sure thing, I found this at the bottom of the sales page:

Thanks for your interest in StomperNet!

To get more information about StomperNet, StomperNet products, or to request information on becoming a member of StomperNet, please send an email to: stomperinfo@stompernet.com

For any customer service issues, please contact our customer advocacy department directly by email at: stse2support@stompernet.com

For The NET Effect related inquiries, please contact our publisher at: publisher@stompernet.com

If you're interested in becoming a StomperNet affiliate, please visit: https://member.stompernet.net/jvpanel/signup.php

For all Joint Venture inquiries please send an email to: jointventure@stompernet.com

Interested in a position at StomperNet? Please send your resume and cover letter to humanresources@stompernet.com

StomperNet, LLC
6420 Atlantic Blvd
Suite 145
Norcross, GA 30071
Phone: (404) 348-4401

So, you can try one of those avenues

[freudianslip27]

It goes to show that even putting in just a little effort makes you so much more ahead of the game.

Sometimes i don't try something because I think "everyone else is, there isn't room", and then eventually I do give it a go, and do well. My conclusion is that so few people actually follow through with stuff!

Matt

[virtualpro]

I like upsell because everytime I say 'No' to it, the discount followed .

It kind of entertain to see a button which tell me 'I've missed the rare courses ever created'. Then at the moment I click it, they immediately beg me to buy it with $100 discounted. Really funny!

[Black Hat Cat]

Originally Posted by tradermike2008

I bought it, but was annoyed not with the upsale but the delay. John Reese did the same thing. He delayed his launch for a few hours. I think its a ploy and makes me think they are pullnig a trick.

With the stompernet notice when they said they were delaying they had an opt-in box for you to put your email in so they would notify you when it was live. So they were collecting opt-ins from the affiliates off of people going to the sales page.

I think it was a ploy to collect emails and make people think there was some sense of urgency. They first said the servers were down, but if they were down the site wouldn't load up. Then they changed it so something wrong with their order processing - but you would think they would have tested that.

It is hard to believe and so was the Reese thing. Annoying, but whatever. I bought it, will subscribe to it and test it out for awhile. But makes me not feel a reciprocity deal or something that I think is an appeal for doing a "free stuff" type deal.

What's hard to believe is that there are still people out there who believe wasting the time of and alienating potential customers is a deliberate business strategy.

It was the intent of blatantly ripping these guys off with no intention of giving them a chance to prove their stuff was worthy that I had a problem with.

Uh, come again? I guess I missed that part in the fine print.

As for the upsells, please. Unprincipled? Give me a break. Inconvenient perhaps. You could have clicked the "no thanks" buttons and completed the order in less time than it took you to come here and whine about it. That's what I did.

Oops! I guess I ripped them off too since I didn't even read or consider their upsells.

Oh well....

[nathanpennington]

Originally Posted by kiev

I got 5 e-mails and deleted them all without reading except Frank Kern's.

I clicked on the link... I signed up for the "free DVD's"... I did not read the upsells > Scroll Down > No Thank You > Next >Scroll Down > No Thank You... finally got to the last page, made sure that I was actually charged for SHIPPING only > Order.

Copy/paste (save in a document on my PC) the CANCELLATION info - to cancel the monthly 39$ subscription as soon as I got the DVD's ...

Simple.

Wow. I'm so in agreement with Jason . . .

Total PRICK! . . . But going into the deal knowing you are going to cancel is total duetschbag maneuver.

[codeism]

After reading everyone's replies (great insights, folks), something I think we're missing the point on is this:

Not every product works for everyone. I didn't promote or recommend StomperNet and/or Stomping the Search Engines to my audience because I think the material, while great, really doesn't match up to what I'm helping them get through during their marketing journey. It's important to match material to audiences, and not simply assume that everybody is going to get a certain value out of something.

I enjoyed the Going Natural Series, and I think the Stomper team are truly dedicated to helping people make money online for the long haul - but for what I want to do in my own company, I don't see a reason to invest at this moment.

I look at what my short term - mid term - long term goals are, and what products are on the market. Right now, product creation is what we're focused on, both digital and physical - we know how to do it, the road ahead now is taking massive, focused, targeted, PASSIONATE action. With respect to my fellow product creators, affiliates, and marketing colleagues, I have chosen to limit my supplemental product purchases until I've taken more action. (*phrased carefully, I mean no disrespect whatsoever, friends*)

It's easy to get caught up in the rush, the high of the good deal -- we're marketers, this is our passion -- and i know I'm not the only one that really digs into salesletters! I've read the Stomper salesletter from top to bottom, and it's definitely in my creation station swipe file, along with some other classics (my favorite is the Wall Street "Two Men" ad, can I get a witness?)

Re: multiple upsells -- done well, multiple upsells key in on related desires (secondary and/or tertiary wants of a niche audience), which is why they're effective, but we already know that part. It really is a numbers game. Personally, I don't do OTO's very often, but I don't begrudge someone if that's what they want to do.

The List Issue is another ball of wax (last one, I promise!) -- product creators cannot successfully police each and every affiliate. The general method of getting the word out about a new product or service is through JV's with lists -- as marketers and info junkies, we're on a *lot* more lists than someone in a non-IM related niche. It happens.

I stay on lists because I like to see how others pitch -- I'm new to list building, but not new to creating relationships. So my focus is on learning the medium (email marketing), and I find a lot of great stuff.

Someone upthread mentioned jealousy - no jealousy on this nichelady's part, to be sure -- envy is useless. action + unshakable faith = impressive results. Why envy when you can be?

Work Hard, Play Hard, Love Easily!

[Shannon Herod]

I believe this was a great deal. I also look forward to being a subscriber for a very long time.

The team at StomperNet have proven themselves to give extraordinary content for absolutely free. I can only imagine what they're paid material like.

Actually, if you look at the statement above this is what moving the free line all about.

With that said, how can you possibly expect them to not try to upsell you. I personally had no problems with the upsell procedure.

But, I am a very good marketer and know what works, so I guess I expected it.

If you are a marketer here and dislike upselling your prospects and customers you are no doubt leaving money on the table.

Also, I hate it when I go to McDonalds and they asked me if I would like to supersize that. How dare they try to upsell me. Rotten scoundrels.

As a matter of fact I'm going to return this half gone quarter pounder with cheese!


Shannon

[lassitermarketing]

Originally Posted by Paul Gram

It's ridiculous that you guys would complain about upsells on a basically FREE product! They are not a charity, you should be learning from their upsell process, not hating on it. They would be foolish NOT to upsell.

Amen.

I thought it was well done. If you don't want the upsell, then just click no.

I was taking notes on the process and got a free upsell lesson out of it.

[Bruce Wedding]

Interesting thread.

We've got people setting mouse traps getting upset when the mice steal the cheese.

We've got the same old lazy marketers not taking 20 minutes to differentiate themselves by crafting their own email.

Where is the popcorn emoticon?

Originally Posted by Lance K

Come on, don't be so fast to discount the opinion of fellow Warriors simply because you're on the other side of the fence.

I hear you Lance.

But...

My statement wasn't meant as an insult, nor did I intend to discount the opinion of anyone here.

The "Jealous" comment was more of an observation.

As far as everything else that I said... Hey, I think that reckless upsells are distasteful, just like the next person.

I also think that they are very easy to ignore.

Peace

Originally Posted by Lance K

And I can honestly say that I thought each upsell was a genuine good value. No so with some other promotions. But these sure were. I just passed due to the amount of info I already have to digest and implement and the limited time I have to do so.

Their upsells where solid... the best that I've ever seen.

[Jason Moffatt]

Originally Posted by Bruce Wedding

Interesting thread.

We've got people setting mouse traps getting upset when the mice steal the cheese.

We've got the same old lazy marketers not taking 20 minutes to differentiate themselves by crafting their own email.

Where is the popcorn emoticon?

Not exactly an appropriate analogy Bruce as a mouse trap is set to kill the mouse, not help them get better search engine rankings.

Last time I checked, Brad and Andy weren't out to harm any marketers by baiting them with their product.

[Joseph Park]

Hi all,

To be honest, I also signed up to their free offer with the intent to cancel it before the 2nd month. But I think that's part of the deal that they expected and I'm sure they would make a lot of money on their upsells and monthly subscription who would really benefit from the megazine.

And about their upsells, I almost bought it because what they offered for $97 was a superior product. Even their 2nd upsell and 3rd was amazing. I think they've done a very good job promoting it.

It seems like most of the gurus now learned to wait and see who's going big these days and just promote his/her products to make a huge commission instead of developing their own. Well, who's to blame?

Joe

[ExRat]

Hi Bruce/Jason,

Interesting thread.

We've got people setting mouse traps getting upset when the mice steal the cheese.

We've got the same old lazy marketers not taking 20 minutes to differentiate themselves by crafting their own email.

Where is the popcorn emoticon?

It's here -



I liked Bruce's comment after seeing people get all twisted because someone signed up knowing they only wanted free stuff and that they would unsubscribe.

I'm sure the stomper boys are happy with that. They have the sign up details, and who knows - they may relegate the freebie-seekers to a 'bombard with offers' list or (perish the thought) sell their details on to a company that pitches them over the phone/direct mail.

Not exactly an appropriate analogy Bruce as a mouse trap is set to kill the mouse, not help them get better search engine rankings.

Last time I checked, Brad and Andy weren't out to harm any marketers by baiting them with their product.

In fact, it is an appropriate analogy. The fact that the minor details are different is exactly what makes it an analogy.

The traps that were set are -

1) the upsells

2) the continuity

3) the possibility that they might (shudder) sell the details of the subscribers

If someone joins up knowing that they will unsubscribe, then they are effectively 'stealing the cheese' - IE - avoiding the trap. The cheese is the 'bait' which is the 'free' content.

I think for some people, however much they might want or have benefitted from the content, after seeing people commenting saying 'I can't get the sign up form to work, how can I contact them?' and other breathless demonstrations of their desperateness to grab something for 'free', it is just too demeaning to join the fray and stand in line saying 'Baaaaaaa!'

Plus, too many times the details of people who go for 'free' continuity offers ARE sold to companies who buy leads - and it's often done a little further down the line when the recipient of the sales pitches and emails will not understand exactly where they have come from.

[Jason Moffatt]

Hey Roger,

I agree that the analogy is a good one if... used in another instance.

The fact is, a "mouse trap" is intended to harm, or kill something. It's an extremely negative thing.

The upsells intention are not there to harm anyone. In fact, it's just the contrary. They aren't selling crap. It's good cheese. It's worth the $$$. Their intention is help people, not snap a metal wire across their throat.

So therefore, I feel the analogy is unfair.

Witty, but still unfair.

[Lynn Terry]

Regarding the ~30 hour delay in launch which was brought up earlier in this thread - and the web page still being live during that time - it was the shopping cart that went down. Andy Jenkins shared some details on this, and took full blame for the major delay. He said they had made updates right up to the last minute, but their last full backup was 12 hours old. So they had a lot to re-work when the server that hosts their shopping cart went down. I'd assume thats the secure server - which explains why the sales page leading to it might still be live. I dont know ALL the details, I'm sharing what I heard (or rather, what I recall from what I heard - directly from Andy).

I thought to myself "that stinks - should have been backing up every 10 minutes". But I dont even want to confess when my last full backup was done, so I bit my tongue.

Regardless, they certainly didnt gain anything by it. If anything, tons of momentum was lost in the process.

[Lynn Terry]

Also, a little something to consider on the backend OTO's that seemed to annoy a certain percentage of people...

All of those offers were not originally available - and werent going to be.

They made the comment (I saw it over Twitter) that they were going to add some cool options to make up for the wait. So many of those offers were meant as a "bonus option" since everyone had to wait so long for the release.

Take it or leave it, of course. But the fact remains that they havent released a standalone product for years, so its a great opportunity to get your hands on some of their training material without joining as a member for $800/month. Personally, I like that option!

I already have review copies of both free products, but I'm placing an order anyway just so I can shop the OTO's

[chiboa]

Seems that everyone is so used to the crap peddled in this industry, when they see some quality information they get all bent out of shape... and instead of taking notes on how two successful guys are running their business they complain about the process...

Unreal.

I would venture to guess... the ones that are peddling the crap are the ones that are the most pissed off. Offers like these make them have to work ALOT harder.

[ExRat]

Hi Jason,

Well we could easily get drawn into a long drawn out debate here over nothing. And as an exrat, you'd expect me to see mousetraps as particularly negative.

The fact is, a "mouse trap" is intended to harm, or kill something. It's an extremely negative thing.

I disagree. Imagine your house is infested with mice which are spreading disease and excrement and your child gets ill - you call in pest control. The reason you do this is because it would be futile to try and round up the mice by hand and humanely extract them from your house - they'll just come straight back to their nests.

If your statement is correct, then anyone who works in pest control (particularly any who enjoy their work, saving children from infection etc) must be a really negative person.

The mousetrap analogy is commonly used in our language to describe any situation where bait is used to trap someone/something.

Therefore if this analogy can't be used because it is 'negative', then there a whole bunch of marketing subjects that we can't discuss and use analogies for, such as -

a) using free products to get an opt-in

b) using surveys to get customer feedback

c) using a blog to gain user generated content

All of these are similar to mousetraps.

Exactly the same as say, buying the youtube account of someone who gets tons of hits for his amazing guitar work BUT - the guitar work has been cleverly faked AND the only reason it was bought was to stick an affiliate link in the description...according to your logic this is very negative and therefore wrong.

Or other ninja tricks designed to manipulate in order to profit

The use of the word negativity aimed at someone to try and negate their point is probably the most misused thing in this forum - and that is a bad thing too - it's a negative thing in itself, which goes against any positivity pledges made previously (again)

The upsells intention are not there to harm anyone.

That's the whole point of an analogy.

analogy definition |Dictionary.com

a similarity between like features of two things, on which a comparison may be based: the analogy between the heart and a pump.

Logic. a form of reasoning in which one thing is inferred to be similar to another thing in a certain respect, on the basis of the known similarity between the things in other respects.

If I said that someone had made a free offer and it drew takers in 'like bees to honey' - it doesn't matter that the takers aren't actually bees, nor that the product is not actually honey - although I could say that it created a buzz (groan).

Their intention is help people, not snap a metal wire across their throat.

You could say that their intention is to help people. And you could also say that their intention is to profit.

Which one is it? Is the product really free? Are the upsells free? Is the continuity free?

I find that if someone's intention is purely to help and has nothing to do with profit then it is free. Sorry to have to offer a drawn out disagreement Jason but your argument holds water like a mousetrap hangs on to elephants. It must be late Saturday night in SoCal currently? I'm up for a pointless debate whatever the time is...

[Jason Moffatt]

haha man,

I got a great xbox 360 game to play instead...

MX vs ATV

[Jeffery]

Been clicking through endless upsales for years because I am one of those types who has to see "whats behind door #2, 3, ..."

Jeffery 100% :-)

[ExRat]

Hi Jason,

haha man,

I got a great xbox 360 game to play instead...

MX vs ATV

That does look good, especially the monster truck. What happens if you use it to drive over the guy on the motorbike as soon as the race starts? Does he get squashed?

[jjpmarketing]

Actually there is a humane way to do it... I had a mouse in my house once and didn't want to kill it... so I looked for ways to capture it and release it. There was a device that could capture up to 10 at a time I believe. You put it along the wall and the mice will run right into this... and you can then release them to the wild or whatever.

I never got the chance to try it. I left a sack of trash sitting in the kitchen overnight... and even with it tied up... the mouse still seemed to get indside of it. So I just took the garbage out the next day... and figured he would be right at home in the garbage bag.

===================

Wouldn't it be more like leading a stray back to your house with little pieces of scrap food... take it in and feed it a little at a time... only to have the dog wreck your house.... ruin your furniture.... ok... well maybe not that bad... but something like that.

[tommygadget]

Upsells are a way of life for most marketers. In fact, you should take advantage of a buyer's good mood when promoting good related offers. I think it is very cheesy, though, when you buy something and you get: "but wait, there's more..." click NO, "no really, the more we were offering is now 50% off!!", click NO, "here's one more, you really will like this!!!" click NO "well, thanks for looking, here's another..." download link buried on the bottom of the page in 1pt font. Sheesh. There is such a thing as overdoing it.

TomG.

[Bruce Wedding]

Originally Posted by Jason Moffatt

Hey Roger,

I agree that the analogy is a good one if... used in another instance.

The fact is, a "mouse trap" is intended to harm, or kill something. It's an extremely negative thing.

The upsells intention are not there to harm anyone. In fact, it's just the contrary. They aren't selling crap. It's good cheese. It's worth the $$$. Their intention is help people, not snap a metal wire across their throat.

So therefore, I feel the analogy is unfair.

Witty, but still unfair.

Jason,

You got to work with me a little. The way I thought about it, mouse traps are meant to CATCH mice.

If I'd said, "You've got marketers setting live traps, getting upset..." it's just not going to roll off the tongue as well and fewer people know what a live trap is.

Anyway, the cancellations in a promotion like this are expected going in. I just heard Ryan Deis talking about how a certain percentage cancels immediately, a certain percentage after they see the first offer, then the rest stick for a period of time commensurate with the quality of the product.

It's business and I don't know why it would upset you to hear someone have the balls to admit doing it.

I've certainly stood around drinking beer with marketers that are continuity masters, and everyone here knows their name, and heard them laugh about all the people that stick because they forget to cancel. In fact, the continuity business modlel expects that behavior too.

What's the difference besides one puts money in your friends pocket and one doesn't? You need to get some objectivity, dude.

[Steven Wagenheim]

Originally Posted by Scott Ames

Amazing how we are all in IM but are ticked off by marketing.

Scott, it's not the marketing we're ticked off about. It's the lack of imagination
and effort that the people put into it.

I love reading marketing emails. Please, sell to me...I'm begging!

That's how I learn stuff. But when people use the same worn out ads, there
is nothing to learn. It's like reading the same novel over and over again.
Eventually, you know the plot by heart and just can't read it anymore.

I have no problem with marketing to me.

What I do have a problem with is laziness and lack of imagination.

[Lynn Terry]

I would say the solution is to unsubscribe from those newsletters or mailing lists... Simple enough.

[MaskedMarketer]

Originally Posted by marcanthony

I have to honestly say that some of the criticism here sounds like jealousy.

Agreed.

But I also agree that people complain about it (in the IM community) because it happens so much, with so many products, but honestly, who cares, its working for the owner, and you should be doing it too! People should stop getting so emotional.

Also, successful businesses should have a back end. With an upsell offer, you can potentially sell these back end products quicker.

[MaskedMarketer]

Originally Posted by ExRat

3) the possibility that they might (shudder) sell the details of the subscribers

That's right... I know coaching companies that bought leads from some these "gurus" this board looks up too. Its a shame they sell or sold their lists at one point.

[Matt Fulger]

Originally Posted by marcanthony

For those of you that are tired of receiving the same emails.

Why don't you unsubscribe from some of these lists?

Just a thought...

Oh... The Upsell issue.

Upselling, while annoying to many of you, is a great marketing tactic.

I get it... it annoys some of you.

But all you have to do on the upsell page is: Scroll down to the bottom of the page, skip over the very beautiful and enticing order button. And click on the inept "no thanks" link. And go on about your business.

I have to honestly say that some of the criticism here sounds like jealousy.

Marc,

While I agree with your statements, there are some offers where the upsells go beyond the point of annoying to the point where I've asked for a refund before I ever got to see the actual product. WHY? Because the onslaught of upsells was more than just distracting and/or annoying. Once I've paid for a product, I'd like it to be delivered right away. I shouldn't have to go through 15 upsells in order to get to the actual product download page.

It doesn't bother me when I simply have to scroll down and click on a "no thanks" link, but it's not always link that. Sometimes, you click the link just to get another OTO. "Wait before you continue, yada yada yada...." Offering unobtrusive upsells on the download page would be more likely get my attention than the forced OTO's before I ever get to the download page.

Now, offering ONE OTO before the download is fine. But some marketers get too carried away offering one OTO after another, making it a total pain to get to the actual download.

Once I've paid, I expect to get to download my purchase asap. I don't like having to go through another sales funnel just to get to my product. I've bought some products where I've had to sign up to several lists before I get my download info. And then get several upsells before the download page is revealed.

My Point is, some marketers take the upsells to the extreme and end up pissing their clients off rather than gaining trust, etc.

Just my 2 cents.

Peace & Prosperity,
Matt Fulger

[MaskedMarketer]

Originally Posted by ExRat

You could say that their intention is to help people. And you could also say that their intention is to profit.

Which one is it? Is the product really free? Are the upsells free? Is the continuity free?

You could also say their intentions can possibly be both.

The way you phrase your statements makes it seem that it can't be both. Because the people purchasing these products should be profiting too. If they use the info correctly.

Personally, if I can take free help or pay for it, I'd rather pay for help (At least for most business purposes)

"you get what you pay for" can apply here

[ecoverartist]

Well, the problem is, those are newsletters that generally deliver good content. And I can take being sold to from time to time...but when you get the SAME pitch from EVERYBODY, then it gets old.

What ever happened to innovation?

[JayXtreme]

I make my money on the backend

Peace

Jay

[Lynn Terry]

I cant speak for everyone, but if you happen to be on my mailing list I use a legit email address and read all replies - and always welcome feedback. I think if you let publishers know your thoughts, and communicate that feedback with them directly, it could help make a difference.

They read these threads, and other hot topics around the web (on blogs, twitter, etc) but a personal note could go a long way.

[ThomasW]

To add to the fun: Vince Nouvel offered to reimburse purchasers for the shipping and handling if he was sent a receipt of purchase. 2 days have gone by and no reimbursement has appeared. Interesting addition to all of the above.

[Lynn Terry]

80% of my blog posts are not about StomperNet. And I dont pay people to comment on my blog. And I'm no longer replying to you.

Originally Posted by Matt Fulger

Marc,

While I agree with your statements, there are some offers where the upsells go beyond the point of annoying to the point where I've asked for a refund before I ever got to see the actual product. WHY? Because the onslaught of upsells was more than just distracting and/or annoying. Once I've paid for a product, I'd like it to be delivered right away. I shouldn't have to go through 15 upsells in order to get to the actual product download page.

It doesn't bother me when I simply have to scroll down and click on a "no thanks" link, but it's not always link that. Sometimes, you click the link just to get another OTO. "Wait before you continue, yada yada yada...." Offering unobtrusive upsells on the download page would be more likely get my attention than the forced OTO's before I ever get to the download page.

Now, offering ONE OTO before the download is fine. But some marketers get too carried away offering one OTO after another, making it a total pain to get to the actual download.

Once I've paid, I expect to get to download my purchase asap. I don't like having to go through another sales funnel just to get to my product. I've bought some products where I've had to sign up to several lists before I get my download info. And then get several upsells before the download page is revealed.

My Point is, some marketers take the upsells to the extreme and end up pissing their clients off rather than gaining trust, etc.

Just my 2 cents.

Peace & Prosperity,
Matt Fulger

Hey Matt,

I hear ya! And, I agree. The upsells can occasionally get a little crazy.

But, I still have to fall back on what I said before... they can be ignored.

However, in this case, Stomper's upsells were the best that I've seen... not sure that ignoring them would be the best idea.

I can't wait to go through the newsletter journal thingy. I forget what they call it.

Take care buddy

p.s. Not everyone gets pissed off by multiple upsells. And if they did, we wouldn't see the "guru's" using them so much. They have teams of people that do a lot of testing for them. If the test results were poor, they wouldn't upsell as much.

[Shaun OReilly]

Originally Posted by marcanthony

Not everyone gets pissed off by multiple upsells. And if they did, we wouldn't see the "guru's" using them so much. They have teams of people that do a lot of testing for them. If the test results were poor, they wouldn't upsell as much.

That's true Marc. Some like 'em, some hate 'em and some don't really mind
either way.

Brad and Andy are avid testers and trackers so they'll be going over the
numbers for this launch of Stomping the Search Engines 2 with a fine
tooth comb.

However, in this launch situation I don't know if they tested the effect
of the number of upsells on response: e.g. one upsell vs. different
numbers of upsells.

The way to know if they're on the right track is to see if the next launch
from the StomperNet camp includes a series of upsells like STSE2. If they
repeat a similar pattern, then you know they like what their numbers are
telling them.

Best wishes,

Shaun

[elitemarketer]

I wonder if we all fell in love with Andy and Brad due to the fact that Frank Kern was the one writing their scripts for the videos, salesletters, emails and sales process?

Just a thought!

To be honest the upsells didn't bother me that much but what did was when Andy made the remark "Sorry for this Ghetto Video"

I create video's with me at my desk all the time and I don't see how that is "Ghetto"... lol

But I do understand that it was a launch and compared to the very professional one its was nothing to brag about but saying that it was ghetto as if the video's I make that don't look like a Jeopardy show are Ghetto is what got me to lose some respect for Andy a little bit! I understand he has a Video Background but don't knock the type of videos that your customer base is creating daily!

And I don't think they planned on stalling because if they did have that planned I don't think they would have scripted something like "Sorry for this Ghetto Video"

Hey whatever though, they know their **** and I will stay a customer as long as they continue to offer the best SEO info out there since SEO is and always will be a crucial part of my businesses.

Originally Posted by Shaun OReilly

The way to know if they're on the right track is to see if the next launch from the StomperNet camp includes a series of upsells like STSE2. If they
repeat a similar pattern, then you know they like what their numbers are
telling them.

We shall see!

But I'm very confident that they are on the right track. Their following is so strong, they could a million upsells and I wouldn't be a bother.

Let's not forget that they have helped people become millionaires.

That's why I don't skip their upsells. In fact, they're are exempt from "going to far" with their upsells in my book.

Take care Shaun!