$500+ a Day - Guaranteed

[TrevorB]

The other problem with this sort of fraud is that it is going to stop the CPA networks from offering us (the honest hard working warriors) the offers. We will all get tarred with the same brush.

[GeorgR.]

Originally Posted by cyberchick

we have to use our BRAIN to determine whether something sounds too good to be true.

actually..i just read this like "BRIAN"

As to our WSO - i don't have the nerve to start another endless debate with Brian.

Needless to say i don't agree with Brian's opinion, ESPECIALLY in regards to his use of words like SCAM and FRAUD

There is too much at stake, for people buying this WSO as well as for me as user of this forum. Since we CAN NOT give a 100% Guarantee in Regards to the WSO/method being allowed in ANY and ALL circumstances - we CLOSED this WSO.

I still ask people to be careful with their judgement - especially if people judge a WSO/method they did not read before.

When i/we posted the WSO i was (and still am) convinced that the WSO can be applied 100% legally as well as "black hat". <--- otherwise i would have never posted this WSO.

Anyway, discussion over for me.

Please have common sense before judging based on other people's opinion.

G.

[Eric Lorence]

One would think "Common Sense" the only tool needed to avoid these scams...

One sure sign being the word "Guaranteed".

We are the mod's, and things could be far worse as evidenced by he other big IM forums.

[Thomas Belknap]

Originally Posted by Jeremy Kelsall

Well, I'm not so sure about Thomas, Paul. You might want to keep your eye on that guy

Traitor.

[Thomas Belknap]

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

Jeremy,What? And go blind?!

Gee, thanks, Jeremy. I thought you were one of the good guys.


Paul

That is what happens when you look at an angel, you go blind.

[GeorgR.]

Since we CLOSED the WSO, here some Clarification so you KNOW what this debate is even about:

We had a WSO which dealt with people filling out CPA offers, using a service on a website.


The WSO pointed out that the method can be used black- or white-hat, depending on what kind of vendor you use, depedning on the terms of a particular vendor.

There are vendors which allow what is called "incentivizeable traffic" - and there are vendors which do NOT allow such traffic.

In the WSO as well as in the sales-copy, i pointed this out and i said that the method is NOT bound to a particular vendor - because the method (as i assume) works also with vendors who allow this traffic. Therefore CAN be black-hat, but don't have to be, and can be applied in a way which is 100% legal.

Brian Kindsvater even posted two VERY GOOD reviews after buying our WSO - as well as the other users who bought the WSO. Except a few who already knew the method, we got pretty good reviews. People also said its a good method because it also works with incentivizeable traffic since the vendors can be exchanged.

As it looks, Brian did some research....and/or he demanded we "proof" that the method being 100% legal for each and any vendor and CPA network.

He all of a sudden changed his opinion (after two really good reviews) and started using words like "scam" or "fraud".

First, he said we deceived buyers of your WSO with the screenshot. He said we deceive them because it implies to make money with this particular vendor, 100% legally.

We never said that. In the WSO i never focused on ONE vendor, actually pointed out a few times that the vendors are interchangeable.

So i blurred out the vendor names in the screenshot the next day to avoid such confusion (based on Brian's PM!) - and THEN brian makes it sound like i blurred the vendors out "to even more deceive buyers of our WSO". While i did it exactly for the opposite reason!

Now, judge yourself whether we are a bunch of "scammers"...

The only thing would maybe be the definition of "incentivzeable traffic" and possibly a mis-interpretation (or lack of knowledge on our side) since its 100% impossible to check against each and any vendor's terms.

From a certain point of view - i don't even think we are/were obligated to do this because nowhere in the sales copy or WSO we made a claim like this. There was no claim made that it is 100% legal, there was no claim it's all black-hat. It depends how you use the method, and it was posted and thought as a WSO which can be used both ways.



That's about it.



Georg.

[MKons]

Georg,

I haven't bought your latest WSO, so I won't comment on it.

However, I did buy one of your earlier WSOs where you claim to have found "a great way to get cheap traffic using Adwords Search and make loads of money promoting cpa offers"... yet a couple weeks later you're here again, promoting a different WSO, claiming it's yet another "killer".

Here is what is wrong with how you go about things -

You are obviously not making a stable/consistent income using some of the systems that you describe. Please test the system out properly before selling a full blown guide on how to use it.

Nothing personal, really.

[GeorgR.]

Mkons,

not entirely true. Shawn (my partner for this particular WSO) makes pretty good money with CPA.

Also..in regards to my other WSO with the cheap clicks...i am getting $0.06 and $0.07 clicks on search for pretty good keywords - so this WSO is very legit. I myself use it for some CPA offers which i promote, although Shawn makes more with CPA than i do

Also..i make a living of IM. Not millions, not enough for moving into a mansion in hawaii, but it pays my bills

As for the latest WSO...you are right with the testing. But this might not be always possible, especially when it comes to gray-zones of the law. (Shudder). However, its still a very far way to use words like "scam".

For me its a huge difference to say "your method might need more testing and validating of this or that claim"...or saying "you are scamming people".

IMHO Brian just overdid it with using those words.

[MKons]

Originally Posted by GeorgR.

For me its a huge difference to say "your method might need more testing and validating of this or that claim"...or saying "you are scamming people".

Yea. Note I never said anything about your latest WSO (didn't buy it), or your previous one being a 'scam'. Just for the record

[Paul Myers]

Metronicity,

It's almost like there is a thread on a BlackHat Forum saying "Hey Guys, here's how to make a fast buck out of those schmucks on the Warrior Forum".

There are exactly such threads on some forums. There are also lots of Warriors saying the same thing, minus the word 'schmucks.'

The most recent that I've seen listed it as one of his 10 ways to get "fast cash." His recommendation: Sign up, make 10 posts (ooops) and put up a WSO.

MKons,

I get a lot of questions (skype, aim, email and in person) from people who want to know whether a certain wso/guide/blueprint is worth buying. And most of the time those programs/guides turn out to be complete bs, but how can those new to IM know what is bs and what isn't?

Hmmm. You've been a member for two weeks and people are asking you about WSOs? There has to be a story behind that one...


Paul

[MKons]

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

MKons,Hmmm. You've been a member for two weeks and people are asking you about WSOs? There has to be a story behind that one...
Paul

Haha, gotta love the conspiracy theories.

Everyone on my contact list knows what I do, and when some of them decide to look into/start learning IM, they end up on a forum like this one or on one of the long sales pages they found through Google... and they get overwhelmed by the amount of 'info' on offer. So they ask for advice.

Mantas

[Martin Luxton]

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

M
MKons,Hmmm. You've been a member for two weeks and people are asking you about WSOs? There has to be a story behind that one...

Paul

Paul,

No story.

You just have to read

The Idiot's Guide to Dominating The Warrior Forum.

Chapter 1: Become an expert in one week

Chapter 2: Become a guru in two weeks

Chapter 3: List of top defence lawyers and bail bondsmen


Martin

[Eric Stanley]

I just wanted to chime in on the said WSO. I know the exact method and it is indeed blackhat for one reason only. It is against the "servicing" website's TOS to use it as a tool to promote affiliate offers and have said person give up personal information. Does it work? Sure. Is it illegal, no. Frowned up and will get your account banned, most likely.

[Paul Myers]

MKons,

Haha, gotta love the conspiracy theories.

No theory involved. Just the comment that there had to be a story behind it. You may note that, as written, that sentence assumed your statement was true.

Conspiracies, by the way, must involve more than one person. That's part of the meaning of the word. I suggested nothing of the kind. I am aware, however, of the intended connotations of the phrase.

Sloppy.

If you mean to suggest that I'm suspicious of such statements, you'd be correct. Only mildly so in this case, because the grouping suggested various sources of products, but still... A little suspicious. That happens when things don't seem to fit. It's a useful trait, as long as one doesn't treat suspicion as anything more than what it is: A form of curiosity.


Paul

[MKons]

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

If you mean to suggest that I'm suspicious of such statements, you'd be correct. Only mildly so in this case, because the grouping suggested various sources of products, but still... A little suspicious. That happens when things don't seem to fit.
Paul

Nicely worded, haha. Yeah that is precisely what I meant.

I just fail too see whats so suspicious about my post I can't believe that your friends/contacts never ask for advice re various "money making techniques". Never mind.

You obviously write better than me, and I got someone else (Martin?) 'suspecting' me. I guess I'll just stop posting here and move on to a different thread (yeah I read Martin's thread).

Good times

[CDarklock]

Originally Posted by rjhere

LOL.. no.. that is not what blackhat is.. blackhat refers to SEO and was coined based on this.

Excuse me, but "black hat" comes from the hacker culture of the early 1980s. Not a lot of SEO going on then. It relates directly to the question of whether what you are doing is legal or ethical: either the activity is outright against the law and/or terms of service, or it would be if they knew what you were doing.

[xc-mikey]

Could WF offer a cert of some sort, maybe for paying an extra $10, it can be reviewed by a special committee and voted on as legit or not. Maybe something along the lines of Hacker safe. It may help to provide a little protection in an otherwise unsafe internet world.

Take it one step above say CB so when I start promoting my "Six pack abs eating nothing but potato chips" program starts to sell, it will be accredited.

[GeorgR.]

Uh....didnt the whole "spiel" going on with our WSO not just prove this already the case?

You dont need an official "committee", the users will usually do the job.

Also, its not as easy as you say. Opinions can vary GREATLY. There is no such thing as an absolute authority who is able to decide whether a method/WSO works/fits all requirements, is legal..things like that. Its not *always* clear.

If it were that easy we wouldnt have this discussion right now.

[MKons]

Originally Posted by xc-mikey

Could WF offer a cert of some sort, maybe for paying an extra $10, it can be reviewed by a special committee and voted on as legit or not.

It would take a lot of time and effort, and I don't think admins here have the time required to review every WSO that gets posted (even for $10 extra).

On the other hand, asking a senior, well established member to review your WSO and write a short testimonial could dramatically increase your sales.

I do feel that this discussion is kinda pointless, and nothing is going to change. The best thing you can do... if you buy a WSO and find that it's filled with illegal/fraudulent information - report it.

Also, senior members randomly accusing newcomers of scamming people or being somehow dishonest, without any evidence to support those claims, is bs. No less so than posting a WSO full of regurgitated information.

[Martin Luxton]

Originally Posted by MKons

Nicely worded, haha. Yeah that is precisely what I meant.

I just fail too see whats so suspicious about my post I can't believe that your friends/contacts never ask for advice re various "money making techniques". Never mind.

You obviously write better than me, and I got someone else (Martin?) 'suspecting' me. I guess I'll just stop posting here and move on to a different thread (yeah I read Martin's thread).

Good times

It's not necessarily a post in itself that make you ponder. It's the whole context.

Martin

[Clint]

I have in fact accidentally purchased a scam, such as this Just out of curiosity. but quickly they 10 to get booted from the warrior forum and called out for such fraudulent products on the WSO.

So as long as we keep doing our job as member and calling out the fraudulent activity I believe this forum can continue to flourish.

This is only my personal opinion on this particular subject. I hope I helped
Clint

[rapidscc]

Originally Posted by KenStrong

That's right, learn to think big -- aim for at least six-figure fraud.

(Sorry -- couldn't resist! )

Hahaha! atleast you'll be rich before you're caught! just kidding!

oMar

[rapidscc]

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

Metronicity,There are exactly such threads on some forums. There are also lots of Warriors saying the same thing, minus the word 'schmucks.'

The most recent that I've seen listed it as one of his 10 ways to get "fast cash." His recommendation: Sign up, make 10 posts (ooops) and put up a WSO.

MKons,Hmmm. You've been a member for two weeks and people are asking you about WSOs? There has to be a story behind that one...


Paul

Paul nice point!

Mkons Please explain..

[MKons]

Originally Posted by rapidscc

Paul nice point!

Mkons Please explain..

Have you even read the thread? (Obviously not). Perhaps I too should troll around the forum sucking up to every member who has been here longer than me, that would get me loads of "thanked" and all...

Read a few posts above.

It's not necessarily a post in itself that make you ponder. It's the whole context.

Sure. You must be really bored... No I won't be selling a WSO (not in a hundred years), you are wasting your time here my friend

[John Taylor]

Originally Posted by cyberwize123

whats the point of scamming people at the end of the day

Maybe because they're more alert at the beginning
of the day?

John

[Martin Luxton]

Originally Posted by MKons

Sure. You must be really bored...

Interesting assumption.

Originally Posted by MKons

No I won't be selling a WSO (not in a hundred years), you are wasting your time here my friend

Perhaps so, my anonymous friend.

Martin

[Steven Fullman]

Erm, I just read three random posts in this thread.

I'm yet to see five big ones in my PP account.

Can someone advise, please?

Steve

[Michael Mayo]

Originally Posted by Steven Fullman

Erm, I just read three random posts in this thread.

I'm yet to see five big ones in my PP account.

Can someone advise, please?

Steve

Wow Steve,

I just checked my PP account and there is 29 Big Ones in there.
Yep, 29 Big One Dollar Bills just waiting for me to spend um.

Stay Positive and some will sneak in yours sooner or later too!

Have a Great Day!
Michael
PS, Paul, are you totally sure about that Bald Gald guys not a Troll?
Not me! The other Bald Guy. You know, Mr. Cueball

[The Copy Nazi]

How about this new WSO then? "100% Blackhat"

http://www.warriorforum.com/warrior-...at-method.html

I flagged it. Will I be sin-binned again?

[Steven Fullman]

Originally Posted by Michael Mayo

Wow Steve,

I just checked my PP account and there is 29 Big Ones in there.
Yep, 29 Big One Dollar Bills just waiting for me to spend um.

Stay Positive and some will sneak in yours sooner or later too!

Grrr...

I'll stay negative, thanks all the same.

You're clearly one of 'them'...

Not just 29 dollar bills...but 29 'Big' dollar bills...

20 'HD Quality' dollar bills...29 x 1080p-size dollar bills...

You gloatin' bastard. You couldn't help yourself, could you?



Steve

[Michael Mayo]

Originally Posted by Steven Fullman

Grrr...

I'll stay negative, thanks all the same.

You're clearly one of 'them'...

Not just 29 dollar bills...but 29 'Big' dollar bills...

20 'HD Quality' dollar bills...29 x 1080p-size dollar bills...

You gloatin' bastard. You couldn't help yourself, could you?



Steve

Hey Steve,


~ Yup! ~
Michael

[Steven Fullman]

Originally Posted by Michael Mayo

Hey Steve,


~ Yup! ~
Michael

ROFL!

Nice gif. What did it cost, Mike? $29?

Steve

[Michael Mayo]

Brian, Sorry about all the OT posts! My Bad!
I'll make it up to you in just a minute, OK?

Just one more time I promise!

Steve, Soon I will have 100,029 Big Ones in my PP account wanta know why?

Copyright infringement, Yep, Ask Brian.

You copied my image and posted it in public with out my permission.

Thanks, You're a Gem!
Gotta go and tell the wife we can go out and eat now!

Have a Great Day!
Michael
PS, Brian, Up for the case?

[Steven Fullman]

Originally Posted by Michael Mayo

Copyright infringement, Yep, Ask Brian.

You copied my image and posted it in public with out my permission.

Fair use.

Originally Posted by Michael Mayo

Thanks, You're a Gem!

I know...Cubic Zirconia.

Originally Posted by Michael Mayo

Gotta go and tell the wife we can go out and eat now!

Brother!

Originally Posted by Michael Mayo

PS, Brian, Up for the case?

My direct quote increased your brand value. So, case? No. I'm suing you, bud...



Steve

[Ken Strong]

Keep it going, guys, I'm taking notes... boy, I'm going to save a LOT of money on lawyers with all this free legal advice!

[sevenish]

Originally Posted by kindsvater

My opinion, which I've stated before, is that even calling something Black Hat is not an excuse for fraud. Black Hat is legal, just not wanted by someone like Google.

Thank you. Finally. I've tried to make this point several times here, only to be shouted down by those who prefer to define (or sell) it otherwise.

[Michael Mayo]

Originally Posted by Metronicity

How about this new WSO then? "100% Blackhat"

http://www.warriorforum.com/warrior-...at-method.html

I flagged it. Will I be sin-binned again?

I don't think you will for flagging that one!

Have a Great Day!
Michael
PS, Having a Erkel moment, Please wait! OK now you may continue.

[Paul Myers]

Thank you. Finally. I've tried to make this point several times here, only to be shouted down by those who prefer to define (or sell) it otherwise.

For purposes of this discussion, that doesn't matter. You're right within the context in which you use the term, but it's used here in another way. One which suggests a high probability of involving outright fraud.

I've looked at a few of the so-called "black hat" WSOs lately. Almost all have involved things that seem to me to be good ways to end up getting sued or arrested.

I rather like the idea someone suggested recently of adding that word and phrase to the banned words file here.


Paul

[sevenish]

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

I've looked at a few of the so-called "black hat" WSOs lately. Almost all have involved things that seem to me to be good ways to end up getting sued or arrested.

Agreed. I've looked into a few of the so-called "black hat" WSOs too. The ones I've seen are junk ... no offense intended to the vendors. Not something in which I would be involved.

For example, while I bend rules to increase conversions and advertiser satisfaction, fraud has no place in my "blackhat" activities.

[Mridu]

I think most of them are coming from DP forums,review team should be made to handle this.

[Michael Mayo]

Originally Posted by Mridu

I think most of them are coming from DP forums,review team should be made to handle this.

Hi Mridu,

Thanks for your insight of where they came from.

A review team is not required as we have thousands of forum members
that are Moderators including you I hope.

Anyway, To each his/her own is my motto...

I'll hold true knowing where I believe the hive is coming from while keeping
all my IM guns loaded.

Have a Great Day!
Michael
PS, No Animals were harmed in the making of this post.
PPS, Take that PITA...lol J/K <-Shamless Plug.

[The Copy Nazi]

UPDATE: Bewdy!! That WSO has been nuked. Maybe some of you guys flagged it too? Is it open season on Blackhatters and Spammers now? "Your mission...should you choose to accept it...

[mmurtha]

Brian,

Good post, and very timely!

Originally Posted by Mridu

I think most of them are coming from DP forums,review team should be made to handle this.

Mridu,

There's no need for a "review team". We already have one if people will use it correctly! The problem is, most people won't or don't.

[Zeus66]

Some of you people are damn funny, and more of you need to steadfastly refuse all offers to quit your day jobs. :P

I think a possible solution (well, maybe not a solution, but still helpful) would be for more senior Warriors to really dig in and ask the tough questions of new WSO posters. Do it in full view right on the thread. Force the OP to either answer or ignore (which is an answer too). Anyone offering a legit WSO will be able to forthrightly respond in a timely manner with an actual answer, not a clever obfuscation.

I tried this just this week on a WSO thread that seemed fishy to me, and the OP's responses told me all I needed to know. In other words, I kept my wallet in my pocket.

Can't hurt to have some trusted Warriors prowling and asking tough questions to help those.... how to put this... more prone to fits of naivety.

John

[Michael Mayo]

Originally Posted by Metronicity

UPDATE: Bewdy!! That WSO has been nuked. Maybe some of you guys flagged it too? Is it open season on Blackhatters and Spammers now? "Your mission...should you choose to accept it...

I guess you didn't read any of the posts since the second to the last one you posted?
Do Not Pass Go, Do Not Collect $200.

"Click Here To Continue"
Have a Great Day!
Michael

[Justin1]

Isnt it true that the CPA network will stop you promoting the offer if there is no conversions in your traffic? For example, you hire a thousand people to fill out acai forms and NONE of them convert to full sales, then I thought CPA networks were pretty picky and would notice this and either ban you from the offer or stop the offer altogether, or is there no follow up to see how the offers are converting for specific affiliates?

[mmurtha]

Metronicity,

Originally Posted by Metronicity
UPDATE: Bewdy!! That WSO has been nuked. Maybe some of you guys flagged it too? Is it open season on Blackhatters and Spammers now? "Your mission...should you choose to accept it...

Nope, not yet, but it has been a mission for all members to spot the bad WSO and fraud ever since I can remember. We've just been given more responsability when you became forum mods with this new forum.

Originally Posted by Justin1

Isnt it true that the CPA network will stop you promoting the offer if there is no conversions in your traffic? For example, you hire a thousand people to fill out acai forms and NONE of them convert to full sales, then I thought CPA networks were pretty picky and would notice this and either ban you from the offer or stop the offer altogether, or is there no follow up to see how the offers are converting for specific affiliates?

Justin,

Usually they will, and they will also ban you if they catch you going against their toss.

[The Copy Nazi]

Originally Posted by Michael Mayo

I guess you didn't read any of the posts since the second to the last one you posted?
Do Not Pass Go, Do Not Collect $200.

"Click Here To Continue"
Have a Great Day!
Michael

Yes I did. I'm not thick. Just making double sure I'm doing the right thing as I don't want to be in the Bin again.

[Paul Myers]

Metronicity,

Is it open season on Blackhatters and Spammers now?

Yep. Always has been here. As you've noticed lately, it doesn't take a lot of people making these things visible for them to get handled.

We do need to be very careful of the distinction between "I don't like this" and "This is clearly unethical," though.


Paul

[Michael Mayo]

OK, As you please?

Originally Posted by Metronicity

Yes I did. I'm not thick.

This sounds pretty personal, Sorry didn't mean to intrude.

Have a Great Day!
Michael