$500+ a Day - Guaranteed

[kindsvater]

If I ran a WSO promising to make you at least $500 per day, or any amount you want, 100% guaranteed to make you money, would you be interested?

Who wouldn't?

Now what if you paid me money for the WSO and I said:

"Sign up with Google Adsense and hire people to click on your website ads. You will make more than what it costs - guaranteed money. The more they click the more you make."

What would your response be?

- Wow, Brian, great plan. Wish I had thought of that.
- Hooray, this is the greatest idea since toast.

Or, would your response be?

- You're a crook. This is fraud. I want a refund.
- Uhh, isn't this going to get me banned and sued by Google?

Unfortunately, there are 2 WSOs I have recently caught making this pitch. Which means there are probably more WSOs lurking out there.

However, instead of Adsense it is the flavor the month, CPA offers. The WSOs are simply this: hire people to fill out CPA affiliate offers, such as providing emails for email submits, zip codes for zip submits, trial offers to be promptly canceled, etc.

The idea in both WSOs is that you fraudulently hire people to do 'reviews'. So they're just 'reviewing' a website offer. Pay them a token amount for their 60 seconds of review work, and cash in on the CPA payout.

(Sorry for wrecking any planned WSOs, but one of the WSO rules is that you cannot scam other Warriors. This is a scam.)

My opinion, which I've stated before, is that even calling something BlackHat is not an excuse for fraud. BlackHat is legal, just not wanted by someone like Google.

The only way such schemes can be a legit WSO is if you come out and say you've got a sneaky, undoubtedly illegal method of making some cash. I don't know if moderators would approve of that. But regardless, I certainly feel that running WSO's saying hire people to fill out CPA offers are as fraudulent as a WSO saying hire someone to click on Adsense links.

If you're going to run this kind of WSO, IMHO it's fraud on the forum. Take it to Digital Point. Seriously, we're better than this.

Or, do you think it's buyer beware and OK to make a WSO whose pitch is to hire someone to click on your Adsense ads (or any similar scheme)?

---

Edit - wanted to add this: if you see a CPA offer that might allow incentives, that doesn't mean paying someone to click on offers and submit bogus information. It means the network might allow a quality, well-established website that offers prizes, points, etc., and which has strong quality control measures. Think of something like mypoints.com (hopefully that is not a bad example). Typically, even then you need written approval from a CPA network.

[ExRat]

Hi Brian,

Nice call, I totally agree.

Sorry if I keep banging the same 'initiative' drum at the moment, but I would add to your list of reasons about why this isn't acceptable, that we are used to a higher level of initiative here.

Nickel and dime fraud is for losers with a small-picture mindset.

[InternetMarketingIQ]

At some point people have got to learn and understand like in any business there are fundamental steps to success (Primarily having a plan and executing the plan consistently). Greed and a get rich quick mentality will get you nowhere, and it will get you there fast. There are NO shortcuts, there is no FREE LUNCH.

Online Marketing/Online Sales is a real world business that depends on a customer on the other end making a purchase. The customer can be a contextual advertisers, a CPA company (Someone is buying the leads from them), a person with a credit card, etc.

People that understand this will figure out how to leverage it. Most people will fail because they simply can't write the plan to begin with.

Scams are scams and the Net seems to have a disproportionate number of scammers and people willing and ready to buy into the hype.

[Jeremy Kelsall]

I agree, but you will always have people that buy them...therefore you will always have people that sell them

YOu would think that the forum itself would outright ban FRAUD.

[Ken Strong]

Originally Posted by Jeremy Kelsall

YOu would think that the forum itself would outright ban FRAUD.

Maybe it's assumed that Warriors shouldn't need to be told that fraud is bad.

Forum admins would need to request a copy of every WSO and inspect and test it before approving it for sale... don't think that's really practical.

People who buy a WSO are allowed to post feedback in the thread... if someone thinks a particular WSO they bought is promoting fraud, just say so. I don't think the "wrecking a WSO" defense should hold water in those cases.

[Ken Strong]

Originally Posted by ExRat

Nickel and dime fraud is for losers with a small-picture mindset.

That's right, learn to think big -- aim for at least six-figure fraud.

(Sorry -- couldn't resist! )

[Jeremy Kelsall]

I personally think that you should be able to send in a support ticket if a WSO is fraud, have it suspended until it is checked out...

Not only do some of the fraudulent products cause harm to advertisers, but a fair number of people also have their accounts suspended because the don't know how to cover their tracks -- which is never explained

[Ken Strong]

Originally Posted by Jeremy Kelsall

I personally think that you should be able to send in a support ticket if a WSO is fraud, have it suspended until it is checked out...

That's right, you used to see WSOs locked, but left visible, pending investigations... I'd like to see a return to that.

[Jeremy Kelsall]

Well,

Originally Posted by KenStrong

That's right, you used to see WSOs locked, but left visible, pending investigations... I'd like to see a return to that.

I guess the only problem with that is, there is an asshole in every crowd that would abuse it.

[Ken Strong]

Originally Posted by Jeremy Kelsall

I guess the only problem with that is, there is an asshole in every crowd that would abuse it.

No, I mean it was Mods who did the locking (but based at least in part on member complaints).

I used to specifically look for locked WSOs just so I could read the hilarious comments the mod sometimes left (might've been Michael Tracey?)...

[ExRat]

Hi Ken,

That's right, learn to think big -- aim for at least six-figure fraud.

(Sorry -- couldn't resist! )

I didn't want to say that in front of Brian

...kidding...

[Richard Tunnah]

I think there's a problem with people thinking saying 'blackhat' in their WSO means it covers actions that can and are classed as fraud.

Rich

[OSContent]

Originally Posted by InternetMarketingIQ

Online Marketing/Online Sales is a real world business that depends on a customer on the other end making a purchase. The customer can be a contextual advertisers, a CPA company (Someone is buying the leads from them), a person with a credit card, etc.

This really captures the essence of the problem that most new Internet marketers encounter. I won't fault them for it completely because I think it's easy to be overwhelmed by the possibilities when you're green and you're introduced to flashy sales pages that claim you can earn millions overnight-- even if you have no relevant skills or knowledge.

When it comes down to it, though, there has to be a customer on the other end somewhere. And I think many new Internet marketers don't really consider that. For whatever reason, it seems like that doesn't need to be the case on the Internet. They just picture money pouring into their Paypal accounts from anonymous individuals who have no interest gaining any tangible value from what they have spent; or from careless advertisers who don't pay attention to whether or not they are getting any type of return.

[LB]

I purchased a WSO that actually said to post fake ads on Craigslist advertising puppies and then try to sell these people dog ebooks after informing them that you were "currently out of puppies".

ROFL

We hung that page on the office wall here for laughs.

This WSO actually had numerous positive reviews too...

[Kim Standerline]

I've noticed (as I'm sure others have as well) a trend for threads to be started in the main discussion forum on how well some folks have done after buying a particular WSO. (There is one there now which smells a tad fishy).

Curious to note that these threads are usually started by someone with a very low post count and it's also darned sad to see those people blinded by hope who seem to throw caution and common sense to the wind and rush out to "invest" in the latest crap posted on there.

To be blunt the whole WSO forum is a mess, it must be an absolute nightmare for the admins to sort.

Kim

[Charles Washington]

I think the admins have their hands full. They do a good job. Just brainstorming, what could the admins do to cope with the fraudulent WSO's and those posts in the main forums of how great a WSO is by newbies?

Admins did great removing the "Watch Me" threads a few months back. I guess they can get rid of the "This WSO is so great" type threads, as well.

I dont know if I would want the admins reading the WSO's before they were posted. I do not run WSO's, but I would be afraid that if too many eyes were on my WSO before it was released, some of the product might be stolen and compiled in another WSO by one of the admins. I'm not saying that would happen, it would just be a fear.

Kim, the WSO forum might be in a mess, but it is still a GREAT resource! Let's not make any drastic changes

[Pete Egeler]

Originally Posted by Richard Tunnah

I think there's a problem with people thinking saying 'blackhat' in their WSO means it covers actions that can and are classed as fraud.

Rich

That's EXACTLY what BlackHat is. When you opt to go against the rules, TOS, what ever else you want to call it, you're indulging in fraud, no matter how much you try to rationalize it!

It's not "kinda wrong" or "a little wrong". Wrong, is wrong. PERIOD.

Pete

[FredFarnes]

Originally Posted by kindsvater

If I ran a WSO promising to make you at least $500 per day, or any amount you want, 100% guaranteed to make you money, would you be interested?

Yes, I was sucked into a $7 scam exactly like this recently;
"If You're Not Making $9000 Or MORE Every Month With CPA Then You Need To Read This!"

You're supposed to buy "guaranteed leads" from a company who will pay for people to enter their zip/email or complete a one-page form so you get the CPA revenue. This obviously rips off the CPA network, as well as the advertiser in that network.

The warrior received so much criticism that he shut the offer down. Out of principle, I asked for a refund, and never received a reply. No surprise, this warrior has no honor and does not stand behind his product.

I bet no-one is making $9000 a month with that business plan, and the poor warrior who took my $7 for the WSO must really need my money if he's flogging garbage like that (ie he's probably not making decent money from his own scheme)...

This is important here on these forums, especially for newbies: "If it sounds too good to be true, it really is". There are too many in this forum, ripping off the newbies with over-hyped promises of unrealistic dreams.

[flattop]

I saw a video on youtube, where they were talking about $500 bucks right now, you get directed to some xxx.us site where they claim you will get all the information, so you are looking around and try to find the info, so you start clicking on the links and ads... Bam you have just created $500 income for the person who owns the page... I hate when people dupe me like that!

To Your Success,
Clint Anderson

[Amy Bass]

It is scary how much dangerous advice is out there on the internet. The Warrior Forum should be a place to trust, but it would take forever for the mods to have to read every ebook that goes up as a WSO. I do agree though, that they should be reportable as fraud if they are found to be recommending illegal activities.

[Thomas Belknap]

I think the only thing we can do is post our comments on the wso thread just like you did Brian. I have made a few angry by doing the same thing but we need to help each other out. It isn't up to the mods to protect us but we must do it ourselves.

[Thomas Belknap]

Originally Posted by StarFoxx410

Thanks for the Heads Up Bud

I hope your other posts will be better than the usual one liner that gets banned here, Bud.

[Jeremy Kelsall]

Originally Posted by Thomas Belknap

I hope your other posts will be better than the usual one liner that gets banned here, Bud.

Stop being mean to newbies, friend

[Thomas Belknap]

Originally Posted by Jeremy Kelsall

Stop being mean to newbies, friend

Sure thing, Stud.

[Michael Mayo]

Originally Posted by Thomas Belknap

I hope your other posts will be better than the usual one liner that gets banned here, Bud.

Originally Posted by Jeremy Kelsall

Review please

Lol...

After reviewing the situation per your request, I believe we my be infested
with trolls.

~Michael

[Darrel Hawes]

Darn it Brian, I think your thread title is a fraud.

I thought you were going to show us how to make a guaranteed $500 per day.

[Ken Strong]

Originally Posted by Darrel Hawes

Darn it Brian, I think your thread title is a fraud.

I thought you were going to show us how to make a guaranteed $500 per day.

It's very simple -- you PayPal him $1,000 each day, and in return he guarantees to send you $500 a day.

[Tenzo]

Originally Posted by Younggates88

Google is watching for this regardless but if you used another service you could make a ton. Its not a new idea people do pay per click and paid ads all the time. Just don't use adsense.

Or even better, don't do it. The thread isn't about not getting shut down by google, it's about learning to market instead of commiting fraud.

Regards,
Kevin

[Paul Myers]

After reviewing the situation per your request, I believe we my be infested with trolls.

Now, now, Michael. Thomas and Jeremy aren't trolls. A little odd, perhaps, but not trolls.


Paul

[Jeremy Kelsall]

Well, I'm not so sure about Thomas, Paul. You might want to keep your eye on that guy

[Paul Myers]

Jeremy,

Well, I'm not so sure about Thomas, Paul. You might want to keep your eye on that guy

What? And go blind?!

Gee, thanks, Jeremy. I thought you were one of the good guys.


Paul

[The Copy Nazi]

Originally Posted by Thomas Belknap

I think the only thing we can do is post our comments on the wso thread just like you did Brian. I have made a few angry by doing the same thing but we need to help each other out. It isn't up to the mods to protect us but we must do it ourselves.

Yes but...I've been banned here for two weeks recently for "spoiling another's WSO". So I'm very hesitant now to even post a comment if the stuff I've bought isn't up to scratch. The particular WSO I commented on was advertising a "High-Quality" product but in reality it fell far short of that criteria and in fact was written in "Engrish". I think the reason I probably got sin-binned was I gave the guy both barrels after he launched a personal attack on me. But I'd also commented on another WSO (currently supposedly one of the most popular) where I told the guy he was promoting fraudulent activity and was dishonest. My comment was removed and the WSO is still steaming along. Actually I'm still annoyed over my ban but what can you do. Even writing this comment has me worried that I'm "doing the wrong thing".

[John Taylor]

And John adds to the discussion with yet
another simple solution...

New WSO Rule:
"Blackhat" offers will NOT be approved.



John

[Jeremy Kelsall]

Well,

Originally Posted by John Taylor

And John adds to the discussion with yet
another simple solution...

New WSO Rule:
"Blackhat" offers will NOT be approved.



John

There are plenty of "blackhat" techniques and strategies that are not only perfectly legal, but extremely effective...Not only that, people would still find a way to sell the types of offers that we are talking about just by altering their wording

[Davmac40]

Great article and I totally agree - crooks are crooks regardless what dressing you serve it with.

Davmac40

[John Taylor]

Jeremy,

Originally Posted by Jeremy Kelsall

There are plenty of "blackhat" techniques and strategies that are not only perfectly legal, but extremely effective...Not only that, people would still find a way to sell the types of offers that we are talking about just by altering their wording

Yes, I agree. However, this isn't a "Black Hat" forum.

There are lots of other forums that cater for that
market. This is primarily an Internet Marketing forum
and to maintain our position and reputation in the
business community I suggest we need to rise above
such practices.

There has to be a line drawn somewhere.

In my opinion, that line has been well and truly crossed
when we are allowing people to incite others to commit
fraud.

It won't take long to uncover the people who want
to try to slither under the rules.. simply provide honest
and objective feedback in any WSO thread where the
rules are being broken. They'll soon get the message.

John

[Jeremy Kelsall]

I hear what your saying

Just with some things, it is a pretty fine line

[John Taylor]

Jeremy,

Originally Posted by Jeremy Kelsall

Just with some things, it is a pretty fine line

Nobody said it was easy.

The line should be relatively easy to define.. If
it contravenes a third party's Terms of Service
it's not a suitable WSO.

John

[ideasuniversity]

Nice post. We should ban and delete those warriors from this forum

[Martin Luxton]

How about a panel of 10 senior Warriors who get every WSO free?

It will be on a rotation basis. The first WSO of the day goes to panelists 1 and 2, the second goes to panelists 3 and 4, and so on. Panelists can recuse themselves from a particular WSO if it belongs to a friend.

In return for this they give a simple thumbs up or thumbs down on whether it's fraudulent or breaks any rules e.g. you have to double optin before getting your product.

Martin

[BIG Mike]

Originally Posted by Metronicity

Yes but...I've been banned here for two weeks recently for "spoiling another's WSO". So I'm very hesitant now to even post a comment if the stuff I've bought isn't up to scratch. The particular WSO I commented on was advertising a "High-Quality" product but in reality it fell far short of that criteria and in fact was written in "Engrish". I think the reason I probably got sin-binned was I gave the guy both barrels after he launched a personal attack on me. But I'd also commented on another WSO (currently supposedly one of the most popular) where I told the guy he was promoting fraudulent activity and was dishonest. My comment was removed and the WSO is still steaming along. Actually I'm still annoyed over my ban but what can you do. Even writing this comment has me worried that I'm "doing the wrong thing".

Negative comments in WSO's have always been allowed, provided they're factual, not personally attacking the OP, objective and come from an actual buyer of the WSO.

Time was, members weren't afraid to stand up and comment in WSO's, positively or negatively - and the negative comments kept the BS WSO's down to a minimum.

I think Brian nailed it - folks, this is the Warrior Forum and the BS WSO's being posted are not an acceptable part of the culture here. As he said, let them keep that crap over at Dufus Point where it's acceptable and encouraged.

Remember - the fault is not with the WSO forum or how it's moderated; the fault is with how we as members use it, to clearly and defintively respond to products we've purchased there. As a group, we have the ability to send a loud message to those who would undermine the value of the WF.

[Kim Standerline]

Agree wholeheartedly

I'm a tad surprised to be honest that the poster who was banned for posting a comment was banned, especially if he was giving a review of a product he had bought!

lol you must have said something really naughty

Kim

Originally Posted by BIG Mike

Negative comments in WSO's have always been allowed, provided they're factual, not personally attacking the OP, objective and come from an actual buyer of the WSO.

Time was, members weren't afraid to stand up and comment in WSO's, positively or negatively - and the negative comments kept the BS WSO's down to a minimum.

I think Brian nailed it - folks, this is the Warrior Forum and the BS WSO's being posted are not an acceptable part of the culture here. As he said, let them keep that crap over at Dufus Point where it's acceptable and encouraged.

Remember - the fault is not with the WSO forum or how it's moderated; the fault is with how we as members use it, to clearly and defintively respond to products we've purchased there. As a group, we have the ability to send a loud message to those who would undermine the value of the WF.

[The Copy Nazi]

Originally Posted by BIG Mike

Negative comments in WSO's have always been allowed, provided they're factual, not personally attacking the OP, objective and come from an actual buyer of the WSO.

Time was, members weren't afraid to stand up and comment in WSO's, positively or negatively - and the negative comments kept the BS WSO's down to a minimum.

I think Brian nailed it - folks, this is the Warrior Forum and the BS WSO's being posted are not an acceptable part of the culture here. As he said, let them keep that crap over at Dufus Point where it's acceptable and encouraged.

Remember - the fault is not with the WSO forum or how it's moderated; the fault is with how we as members use it, to clearly and defintively respond to products we've purchased there. As a group, we have the ability to send a loud message to those who would undermine the value of the WF.

So what's to be done about it? Because it really is out of hand, in my opinion. I've only been a paid-up member here for 6 months but I've been lurking for years. And I don't remember it as bad as this. It's almost like there is a thread on a BlackHat Forum saying "Hey Guys, here's how to make a fast buck out of those schmucks on the Warrior Forum".

I take your point when you say "provided they're factual, not personally attacking the OP, objective and come from an actual buyer of the WSO." I got most of that right except I told the guy he was dishonest. Result - two weeks in the Sin-Bin for you Lambe. Actually it wasn't too onerous. I managed to get more work done without the distractions of the WF. That reminds me...I've got copy to write. Thanks Big Mike! Love your work.

[Kim Standerline]

lol a one liner post in a thread about fraud etc

Love it

Kim

Originally Posted by sixcore

Thank for the great post... I don't think that a fraud that a good idea...banzai..

[BIG Mike]

Originally Posted by Metronicity

So what's to be done about it? Because it really is out of hand, in my opinion. I've only been a paid-up member here for 6 months but I've been lurking for years. And I don't remember it as bad as this. It's almost like there is a thread on a BlackHat Forum saying "Hey Guys, here's how to make a fast buck out of those schmucks on the Warrior Forum".

I take your point when you say "provided they're factual, not personally attacking the OP, objective and come from an actual buyer of the WSO." I got most of that right except I told the guy he was dishonest. Result - two weeks in the Sin-Bin for you Lambe. Actually it wasn't too onerous. I managed to get more work done without the distractions of the WF. That reminds me...I've got copy to write. Thanks Big Mike! Love your work.

I wouldn't second guess what the Mods or Allen did - that's something only they can answer.

But, the WF is constantly evolving - sometimes it seems darkest just before the dawn here, but it is still the best IM forum online.

I've not been around for a while (business is booming so too damn busy) but it seems to me that all that's needed is for members to become more proactive about being member moderators in order to keep it manageable.I just reported another one-liner response and nuked the post (guess I was the third to report it), and that's all you need to do.

Let go of the past and focus on the future - it's too damn good a resource to be stuck on one issue

[George Montagu Brown]

Man those WSO's suck. I mean seriously, I've just stopped buying any that don't outright reveal what the method they're selling is.

George

[MKons]

I might be new here, but let me tell you - at the moment WF WSO section is considered "easy cash in your PayPal account" by many, many people (some forums have threads going about this).

I think the biggest problem is that WF is a very popular IM forum, and therefore it attracts a lot of newbies. Newbies are cluesless, and it's a shame that their journey into the IM world starts with buying 3-7 bs WSOs.

I get a lot of questions (skype, aim, email and in person) from people who want to know whether a certain wso/guide/blueprint is worth buying. And most of the time those programs/guides turn out to be complete bs, but how can those new to IM know what is bs and what isn't?

Another observation - whats up with all the "how quick can I make money if I implement this technique?", "I need to make $1500 this month, have no IM exp., would this be a good guide to buy?" questions? Give them what they want, I guess... and it works. Thats why we're seeing so many scammy eBooks being posted every day.

If I was to make a good, well thought out, no fluff or bull**** WSO - I'm quite sure I wouldn't sell many. Why? Also, why bother then?

How much are people willing to pay for a good WSO? $10? $14? $25 tops! Why? Value for money you say? Value for money my ***. My time is worth a lot more than $20*100/2weeks. Go and buy ten $7/$10 WSOs, after all, it's all about how many you can buy for the least amount of money. Quick fix is there, somewhere... not.

Whats with all the people asking for money making tips, good WSOs to buy, etc and then posting their own WSO just a week or two later? They don't even try to cover their tracks anymore. It's funny.

sorry for a long rant

[Monika Mundell]

It is sad really to what length certain people go to get money. Scamming others is simply sick and I wonder how these people sleep at night. But then, we also have to blame ourselves for being so greedy, wanting fast riches and everything laid out on the golden plate.

If people weren't so blue-eyed and greedy, these scammers wouldn't stand a chance. In the end, we have to use our BRAIN to determine whether something sounds too good to be true.

[milan]

Brian, I remember when Allen Says banned one person when he found out the WSO was exactly what you say, scamming the CPA offers like this.

So I guess you should report the problem to Allen Says.

[milan]

Originally Posted by Michael Motley

I"m trying to figure out how this is fraud. Its a little early and i havent had coffee yet, but this sounds a whole lot like what Get Paid to Complete Offers at CashCrate.com! does

The difference is that genuine offers don't want you to give the fake personal info, or data. Some offers agree that you give people incentive to sign up for the offer, but not to pay people to provide fake data.