Warrior article writers and service providers READ THIS

[TorontoCarol]

Since Craig was the very first person to encourage me to ghostwrite and showed me the ropes, I think I should add to his discussion.

Although I had an idea how long it would take me to write an article, I didn't really know how to estimate the time it would take me for research. One subject I wrote about had almost no information online so I had to go to the public library to study the subject. I also would never take an order for hundreds of articles at one time ever again. Sure way to burn out.

Things like that are learned from experience. While we're learning, it's our responsibility to be upfront about our progress and hope for your understanding. Then both parties will benefit in the long run.

[Warrior Markets]

Although agreeing with the general sentiments expressed, I do think, perhaps, the demands set by the clients can be overwhelming sometimes - yes, agreed, in that case, the writer shouldn't take on the task.

But if someone is a writer/chooses that to be his/her means of making money, then he/she has to 'compete', and as the price per article has come down so much (generally), it's simply a numbers game: lower rate = increase article numbers.

Inevitably, this leads to either a) drop in quality or b) failure to meet deadlines - or both!

However, I do accept that if problems arise, the writer should let the client know, even though I don't believe all clients will be as understanding as we like to think.

-WM

[ebuyer123]

If I want someone to write Adsense/SEO articles, do I just leave them with some keywords? Of course not, I give them a few links to where they may find the info needed.......... I would rather they focused on digesting the material and actually writing, than surfing around looking for an ezine article to rewrite.

Such a good point....don't let your writer walk the AMAZON to find a wood that the actual wood you are looking for is indeeded the Tigerwoods.

[Craig Desorcy]

Originally Posted by TravisWrites

Indeed, simple but true. This is something all writers should know and memorize by heart. If every freelance writer keeps this line of thinking, then this will definitely be a better article marketing world to live in.

Cheers!

Yup! It's the exact formula I've taught writers. Simple is best.

BTW: When I find a good writer which I do have, I surprise tip them
after they've completed the job (in the beginning or the relationship.)

-Craig

[WritingMadwoman]

Originally Posted by tranquility

As an aspiring ghostwriter (and student of Jenn Dize's course) I've been soaking up everything that's been said in this thread. I'm about to start putting my service and website out there, and the one thing that I'm the most concerned with (after making sure the articles are well-written, of course) is making sure that I meet or beat my deadlines. I'm anal about that sort of thing, and start to feel really stressed if I feel like I won't get something done when I said I would.

Debbie

I'm the same way Debbie, I hate to miss deadlines and can get super stressed if it seems I'm falling behind in my work. One little trick I've learned over the years is to always add 1-3 days more onto to the time you think it will take you to complete a job. If you think it will take 5 days, tell the client they'll have it within 7-8 days. That way you create a little breathing room for yourself.

Since doing this I have never missed a deadline. But even on the couple of occasions before that when I needed an extension, my clients were very understanding. The main thing is to be upfront and honest with them instead of making excuses, and then find a way to make it up to them. I've found that most people are understanding - they know that sometimes things happen that we can't control. But if you plan your schedule right, those times will be few and far between.

Best of luck to you!

Wendy

[djleon1]

For many of us, especially the newer ones, there is not a clear idea of what a "good" article writer should cost (or any other provider). It is not like the prices are standardized and bad feedback is not really encouraged here on WF so all you see are the raves. So I should assume the more expensive one is better? Maybe - but how do I know they are better. Not many article writers can give me stats on traffic increases or anything else. Unfortunately it comes down to trial and error.

[WritingMadwoman]

One thing you can do is ask for samples of their work. That's not a perfect solution either because they can fake those (you might check them in copyscape to be sure they come up with the person's byline, unless they were ghostwritten).

Another good way to start is to pay for one article, then see how it looks, notice if they delivered when they said they would, check the article to be sure it's original, etc.

I know there are a lot of unreliable service providers out there, but there are also a lot of good ones.

Hope that helps,

Wendy

[mbrown]

It can be tough to find good article writers. What I do is hire the people I like for fulltime work. It's not as expensive as it sounds and I can work with that person more closely.

The way I test them out is I give them a few jobs to do and see how they perform. Once I see they either do a good job and get it done I'll give them some more. Of course if they can't get the job done and do have a good reason I simply move on. But, when I find someone that works great, is on time, writes well I ask them how much they'd want to write for me per month. I also give them a set amount of work that must be completed every month and stay up to date with them daily.

This saves me a ton of time because I already know i don't have to search for a writer. This saves me alot of money because I know what I'll be paying for a set amount of work. Plus, my writers love it because it's a guarantee. So it's a win-win. That's what I do when testing out writers anyway.

[ContentPro]

Excellent post. I've been trying to get my feet wet with the projects here but then decided to hold off until I was ready to go full force. I was teaching school and now that summer's here the time has come to push the Warrior to the limit. Sky's the limit and I think the originators for such a wonderful forum of opportunities.

[PowerOfOne]

Thanks for the post...

And AMEN. Article writers really do need to deliver like they say... cause its big business on the forum, and I agree man... some disapointments come from it and its EASY to relate that message to others.

I'm working with a few people right now... I'll let ya'll know how they do!

Jonathan

[MsDebra]

Originally Posted by dorothydot

ABSOLUTELY!

When you take on a client... you have every right to receive payment up front.

Your CLIENT has every right to expect you to meet the deadline.

Your CLIENT has every right to expect your absolute best work that you can possibly produce.

Your CLIENT has a responsibility to provide answers to any questions or comply with any requests like ASAP.

And I personally believe whole-heartedly in providing your client with a bit extra copy than was in the original agreement - overdelivering. But that's my choice.

Bottom line fact:

YOUR CLIENT DESERVES THE ABSOLUTE BEST QUALITY WORK YOU CAN DELIVER - and - ON TIME.

By all means, protect yourself by: getting payment up front, having a kill fee, and not letting your client get away with any big-time changes changes mid-stream, as they say.

Every single client you work with deserves respect. Your client is hiring you to do your very best for him/her. So... Do It!

Dot

I never thought of asking for payment up front. I always trust my client to pay on delivery and satisfaction. Am I doing it wrong?

[gianne2705]

I think it is not just applicable in article writing but to all aspects of life.If you make a promise then do it,if you can't make it then better not to promise.

[RanjithaV]

Hi Craig,

Thanks for this post. You are absolutely right the writers do not seem to understand what they are doing and are wasting time and money on a large scale.

The quality of the article comes down drastically as the number of articles request we send increases.

I realy don't understand why do they do this.

The inputs that others have contributed in this thread will help all other newbies understand how this world of writers work.

Thanks again.

Regards,
Ranjitha.
==

[ebuyer123]

Now as a matter of fact....

- I'm still waiting for my 100+ articles which I ordered & already paid for back in Jan/Feb 2009 from WSO.

- I'm still waiting for my custome designed website that I already paid for few weeks ago. Emailed & PM the folk several times, but no reply.

- I'm still waiting for my refund from a Guru's monthly membership even though after being emailling them twice in a week.

I would say that the total is in a 4-digit sum.

One thing I don't understand though...

Why are these people Kill the Gooses for the Golden Eggs?

[bronnamdia]

The customer is King in any business or venture that wants to succeed and Article Writing is one such business.

Delays may happen and always does happen but how you deal with it determines the level of confidence your patrons repose in you. When you do not inform them on time of delays and inability to meet agreed deadlines, you are showing yourself to be an amateur.

Writers and other businessmen [that's what we all are] should live up to their responsibilities and deliver on promises. You should over deliver rather than otherwise.

[braver55b]

Originally Posted by YellowDot Software

The paying customer is king! But I don't think ritual suicide in Japan is nearly as prevalent as it used to be

Honesty is the best policy, quality is the second best policy

That cracked me up; That is so very true,

[traces2757]

Ranjitha,

It's no more fair to generalize about all writers in this way than it would be for me to generalize about all clients because some have taken my articles and disappeared without paying.

Many of us writers take our work seriously and always do business with professional integrity.

<steps down from the soapbox>

Originally Posted by RanjithaV

Hi Craig,

Thanks for this post. You are absolutely right the writers do not seem to understand what they are doing and are wasting time and money on a large scale.

The quality of the article comes down drastically as the number of articles request we send increases.

I realy don't understand why do they do this.

The inputs that others have contributed in this thread will help all other newbies understand how this world of writers work.

Thanks again.

Regards,
Ranjitha.
==

[monopuff]

I never thought of asking for payment up front. I always trust my client to pay on delivery and satisfaction. Am I doing it wrong?

There's a lot of trust involved on both ends of any Internet business. I personally think asking for payment up front is reasonable since they are commissioning your time to work for them. At least that's how I see it.

With that being said I have had nothing but great experiences. Everyone is super nice and appreciative for the work, so it keeps us all going.

[CDarklock]

Originally Posted by monopuff

There's a lot of trust involved on both ends of any Internet business. I personally think asking for payment up front is reasonable since they are commissioning your time to work for them. At least that's how I see it.

It really depends, for me, on where my risk is. When I have little to no risk, I take payment at the end of the project. When I have a lot of risk, I want full payment up front.

[GaryEarle]

OK, time to throw my opinion in here. The first thing that strikes me odd, especially in this forum, is why would a writer even begin to think about NOT following through on a promise or a stated deadline? Especially when there is so much business to be had here? That I just can't fathom. Maybe it's my age or how I do things.

Sheeesh....you'ld get murdelated in here(yeah, I know, it's a word I made up) and then thrown in front of the train! All because you couldn't tell a customer sorry, I'm behind or sorry, can't do it that fast because I'm booked? Wow...Maybe I look at things a bit differently.

I'd rather NOT have your business then to have it and Piss you off because I couldn't complete it.

Just my opinion

Gary

[Wasabi Kurt]

Originally Posted by GaryEarle

OK, time to throw my opinion in here. The first thing that strikes me odd, especially in this forum, is why would a writer even begin to think about NOT following through on a promise or a stated deadline? Especially when there is so much business to be had here? That I just can't fathom. Maybe it's my age or how I do things.

Sheeesh....you'ld get murdelated in here(yeah, I know, it's a word I made up) and then thrown in front of the train! All because you couldn't tell a customer sorry, I'm behind or sorry, can't do it that fast because I'm booked? Wow...Maybe I look at things a bit differently.

I'd rather NOT have your business then to have it and Piss you off because I couldn't complete it.

Just my opinion

Gary

I agree completely. I suspect it's because many people in all aspects of IM don't approach what they're doing as a business (even though treating it like a business is harped on by most everyone).

When you come to IM after a career that includes years of project management (in my case that included business development plus managing remote subcontractors who were creating software and hardware for our customers), you automatically value relationship management with both your customers and your subcontractors. Especially when tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars are at stake with each project (not to mention your own salary). I guess it's harder to appreciate that if it's your first exposure to running a business, but then again there are many, many first-timers out there who do the right thing and treat people right, just because they feel that's how things should be done (thankfully).

P.S.: If anyone thinks that customers don't care how they're treated, just read through some of the threads in the Warrior-For-Hire section of the forum and watch what happens when a provider starts to fall behind without keeping their customers informed...

[Tracy Shaffer]

Hey!! I know a quality rewrite service. I just used it for about 24 complete articles already, have 4 pending and 2 waiting for approval, all done in the last week. Its a new one called Human Rewriter. The service rocks, and I've never waited more than a day to get a piece done. I put in some PLR content that kinda sucked and it came out much better with very little editing on my part.

Much improved on the slow way I was using before. Definitely check it out.

[Barry Walls]

These writers are just starting out. People like OP probably hire them all the time for <$10 per article because he wont pay for good writers who know what they're doing.

What really surprises me is that the results are a surprise to him.

I'm all on for people being professional, but...when you hire unproven writers, this sort of stuff is going to happen. They haven't got their stuff together yet in many cases.

If this isnt an issue in your business, then you can save money by hiring these writers..but expect and plan for these issues. if you don't think they're going to regularly happen with this group of writers, you're deluding yourself.

If you need the content done professionally...cowboy up, stick your hand in your pocket and pay up properly...or else quit moaning about the results these newbies produce.

Sheesh.

All the best

Barry

[k0zm0zs0ul]

Originally Posted by Justin Jordan

Writers, make sure you know what you're capable of. If you can write an article in half an hour, then it might sound pretty easy to write ten articles a day. Unfortunately, there's a substanial gap between 'sounds pretty easy' and 'is pretty easy'.

Do yourself a favor, and I speak from experience here, and always add a nice pad for yourself. Take half as much work as you think you can handle until you're sure what you can handle. Always give yourself more time than you think you need. At the very worst, you'll be able to complete your work early, and people rarely get angry at you for beating your deadline.

I totally agree on this point. I always make it a point to add an extra week to the delivery turn around time that I offer, of what I expect it to be simply because life happens, and things get in the way of finishing on time.

Have I had instances where something unavoidable came up? Yes, but I always make it a point to keep in contact with my clients and apprise them of any potential delays in delivery. And sometimes, allowing yourself that extra cushion can just be a life saver.

I also make another point occasionally when scheduling a client project to schedule it a couple of days AFTER I can realistically start the project. That way if my schedule clears quickly like I plan, I can get a jump on that project and perhaps pleasantly surprise that client with an early delivery, OR have that extra time as a bit more cushion if necessary.

These methods have worked well for me and allow myself and my team to get projects completed on schedule, and move on to the next.

Regards,
Cori

[k0zm0zs0ul]

Originally Posted by JayXtreme

Find a writer.. and stick to them..

I treat the two girls who I use like queens... they are, hands down.. the BEST writers I know and I want them to get what they deserve...

I'm sorry to hear of all the trouble people seem to be having finding reliable content writers.. but I'm keeping mine under lock and key

You can never treat a good writer too well.... respect their skill.

Peace

Jay

Amen Jay! If only there were more like you! LOL

Regards,
Cori

[k0zm0zs0ul]

Originally Posted by Warrior Markets

Although agreeing with the general sentiments expressed, I do think, perhaps, the demands set by the clients can be overwhelming sometimes - yes, agreed, in that case, the writer shouldn't take on the task.

But if someone is a writer/chooses that to be his/her means of making money, then he/she has to 'compete', and as the price per article has come down so much (generally), it's simply a numbers game: lower rate = increase article numbers.

Inevitably, this leads to either a) drop in quality or b) failure to meet deadlines - or both!

However, I do accept that if problems arise, the writer should let the client know, even though I don't believe all clients will be as understanding as we like to think.

-WM

Which is why I rarely if ever compromise on my prices. I strive very hard to deliver excellent quality AND customer service to all my clients, and expect to make more than peanuts for that service. Does this mean I lose some clients who don't want to pay my prices? Of course.

But in the end, I have fewer clients, less work, and more money. That's what counts to me! lol

Regards,
Cori

ps- In regards to the payment question some one asked somewhere. I always get 50% up front, and request the balance due within 48 hours of delivery unless prior arrangements are discussed and arranged. If an order is $100 bucks or less, I require it in full, up front simply because it makes me feel better to see a $100 dollar payment in my paypal rather than a $50 one! LOL

[k0zm0zs0ul]

Originally Posted by JackPowers

First post and this thread made me join instead of lurking!

I respectfully have to say to the OP that he is fighting a war he can not win!

Instead of calling out writers, who may or may not read this thread, he should focus on telling us HOW to get better results from writers.

As a writer, booked solid with big projects, I know a thing or two about this subject.

I have had many clients since I began writing and some have been great to work with, some have become potential business partners, while others have been a pain in the neck. I have declined several clients because of their behaviour.

As always in business, empathy, the ability to take on another position, is the key to succesful dealings.

I have found that many IM'ers neglect to even consider the position of the writer. Look at it this way: A writer is someone who like everyone else must make decent monthly income.

Many writers in the IM field accomplish this by lowering prices to break in, and then writing like crazy for a few weeks on everything and nothing until they break down. Because that's what happens you know!

After churning out 10's of Adsense fodder articles for a few weeks, you literally feel nauseous writing another word. Yet, this understanding is lost on many buyers of articles. That's why articles are late and quality detiriorates.

Are you a slave driver? Do you know you are underpaying while making big demands on what you want? Then I am sure you will experience the things you describe.

On the other hand, if you choose your article writers carefully with regards to how they fit your project, then you will most likely not encounter problems.

If I find a new writer that really delivers, is my first reaction to place an order of 50 articles for a penny a word, maybe even ask for discount?

No.

Instead I would make sure that writer feels appreciated and valued. I pay them MORE than they ask for. I tell them that they are doing a great job, so I want to pay them a bit more for their efforts. Who do you think gets priority with the writer?

If I want someone to write Adsense/SEO articles, do I just leave them with some keywords? Of course not, I give them a few links to where they may find the info needed. Why you ask? Isn't that the job of the writer to research? Yes, but when you are dealing with cheap writers, they are going to write many articles an hour to make it work. I would rather they focused on digesting the material and actually writing, than surfing around looking for an ezine article to rewrite.

I think some of you bring these problems on yourself. Quality and On Time Delivery cost more than 1 cent pr. word.

If you receive cheap and good service, better make sure you appreciate it, otherwise you may be better of with spinning software.

Amen and welcome to the WF! Great first post.

Regards,
Cori

[Habitat]

When I started writing articles here it was pretty good. It's still alright I guess.

[k0zm0zs0ul]

Originally Posted by TMG Enterprises

You can't lose what you didn't have. Those weren't your clients and are not your target market so there is no loss there.

To the person who said you must compete on price, you are far off the mark. Those who compete on price are all after the webmasters who are either too new to realize that quality writing will work better for them or they are just looking for SEO fodder to fill up a site.

Those who care about the readers and actually want to give them something of value that will bring them back again and again know that it's worth paying more if the writing is top notch. That's the market any decent writer should be going after.

Tina G

Very true to everything said.

Regards,
Cori