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Can I collect credit numbers by phone, and then process order myself through my affiliate link? YES!

by John Durham
36 replies
I'm going to use hostgator as an example but this could apply to many other affiliate marketing programs.

Let's say I design FREE web pages for people, and I advertise offline, and someone says "yes" I want a web page. The only catch is they have to host with say 'hostgator", thus I make $100.00 by giving away a "free" web page.

Now...

When you sign someone up by phone and they say "yes I want a free webpage", then you proceed to tell them, "I need you to go sign up for a hostgator account before we can begin..."

It seems that adds an unnecessary step to the process for the prospect, and my guess is that 50% of them will never make it to the host gator sign up page.

Some will say "they weren't serious then...".

Well, those people need to go back to basic sales 101 "Strike while the iron is hot".

It seems easier to just get their card number via phone, and use your own affiliate link to go manually sign them up yourself, not requiring them to do anything else except say "yes" and give you their info all in one shot...

Then of course backend sales come in, and since you already have their number you only had to ask for it once for everything else you sell them...

Back to my question:

Do affiliate programs allow you to do this, or do internet affiliate sales have to show up as coming from different IP's?

Also, has anyone else ever done this successfully?
#affiliate #collect #credit #link #numbers #orders #phone #process
  • Profile picture of the author AdInventive
    If this were the case I would make sure to speak with the affiliate network/advertiser in question and get the o.k. with them.
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  • Profile picture of the author Gambbit
    Would people REALLY be comfortable giving their CC information in exchange of a 'free webpage'?

    I, for a fact, know that it won't work around here.

    ..
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    • Profile picture of the author John Durham
      Originally Posted by Gambbit View Post

      Would people REALLY be comfortable giving their CC information in exchange of a 'free webpage'?

      I, for a fact, know that it won't work around here.

      ..
      Yup. It's a system that worked long before the internet. Millions of people do it everyday.
      .
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  • Profile picture of the author rondo
    No. You can't collect credit card details to place orders on behalf of other people. It would violate any affiliate program terms and probably the credit and trade laws in your country.


    Andrew
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    • Profile picture of the author Black Hat Cat
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      Originally Posted by rondo View Post

      Are you kidding? You can't collect credit card details to place orders on behalf of other people. It would violate any affiliate program terms and probably every credit and trade law in your country.


      Andrew
      Get outta here....
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      • Profile picture of the author John Durham
        Originally Posted by blackhatcat View Post

        Get outta here....
        Ditto.

        I was more referring to affiliate terms. People collect credit card info on behalf of their customers in television infomercials everyday. That's not even a question.
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  • Profile picture of the author Steven Carl Kelly
    Check with the affiliate. Unless there is a provision against it, you should have no problem doing it.
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  • Profile picture of the author mikeink
    That is a no no.

    Let them sign up thru your affiliate link for the domain name and then you may be able to build them the FREE webpage, as a thank you, for purchasing the name.

    This way they give out their info themselves.
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    Well let me see. OH yea need to start work on my ???????? again.
    Been working for slave wages to long.

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    • Profile picture of the author John Durham
      Not to argue, and I do appreciate you all taking time to answer, but this is getting off topic a bit.

      As far as using a customers card number to make a purchase for them...

      I used to manage a telemarketing room for a web design company, that:

      A: Took the clients billing info via phone, or in office visit.
      B: Used it on the clients behalf to Buy the clients domain name for them... it was perfectly legal.

      Just like it's legal for me to let my daughter use my credit card.

      Most offline clients would prefer to do this than to have to do it themselves...

      The question is do affiliate programs pay when the sales all come through the same IP address, even though it is different billing info each time, and/or has anyone else ever done this?

      Once again, if people didn't give cc numbers over the phone then sellers who use TV infomercials would go out of business.
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  • Profile picture of the author globalpro
    Two things to consider.

    In the USA, there is the PCI standard, which is slowly being backed by Federal law. In essence, you have to be able to provide ample security for the customers CC number. If not, you can be civilly liable for any problems that arise.

    Personally, I would never give my cc number over the phone and I don't know of any business that does.

    Instead of going the affiliate route, why not consider getting a reseller account and have them purchase hosting from you direct. Would make it appear more professional.

    Just a thought.

    Thanks,

    John
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  • Profile picture of the author MrsAuspicious
    You people are kidding me right? I used to do telemarketing, FROM MY HOME, I took I don't know how many CC orders over the phone, people GLADLY give them over the phone to avoid having to actually get up and do something on their own. That being said, Kadensnga I do this on a regular basis. You just have to go over the TOS and make sure that the affiliate doesn't have stipulations on it. One of my affiliates answer was "Heck yea! I'll send you a credit card setup tomorrow".
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    • Profile picture of the author John Durham
      Originally Posted by MrsAuspicious View Post

      You people are kidding me right? I used to do telemarketing, FROM MY HOME, I took I don't know how many CC orders over the phone, people GLADLY give them over the phone to avoid having to actually get up and do something on their own. That being said, Kadensnga I do this on a regular basis. You just have to go over the TOS and make sure that the affiliate doesn't have stipulations on it. One of my affiliates answer was "Heck yea! I'll send you a credit card setup tomorrow".
      Thanks for the good answer, and also a "relevant" answer!
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  • Profile picture of the author rondo
    "Once again, if people didn't give cc numbers over the phone then sellers who use TV infomercials would go out of business."

    That's completely different to what you are suggesting. Those call centers are accepting payment on behalf of a vendor, not making purchases on behalf of a customer. Big difference.

    Andrew
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    • Profile picture of the author John Durham
      Originally Posted by rondo View Post

      "Once again, if people didn't give cc numbers over the phone then sellers who use TV infomercials would go out of business."

      That's completely different to what you are suggesting. Those call centers are accepting payment on behalf of a vendor, not making purchases on behalf of a customer. Big difference.

      Andrew
      Andrew, I hope I am not coming across as arrogant to you. I just know alot of business use their customers credit cards to order things for them... for instance what if your customer wants a domain and a web page but doesn't have their own internet access. It happens all the time. The only way it would be a problem is if you were scamming people and the credit card owners were turning you in for fraud... then I could see an issue.

      Even then it would have to be a TON of people charging back... it would take more than just a few. This is done with the customers consent, and the conversation can even be recorded.
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      • Profile picture of the author rondo
        Originally Posted by kadensnga View Post

        Andrew, I hope I am not coming across as arrogant to you. I just know alot of business use their customers credit cards to order things for them... for instance what if your customer wants a domain and a web page but doesn't have their own internet access. It happens all the time. The only way it would be a problem is if you were scamming people and the credit card owners were turning you in for fraud... then I could see an issue.
        They would pay me first, and I would register it under their name and pay for it myself. I would not act as them.

        You seem to be suggesting it's OK to act as them while making purchases with their credit card. I don't think that's OK because you are entering contracts every time you purchase something.

        And I don't think you're being arrogant just because we disagree.
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  • Profile picture of the author activetrader
    Why don't you just set up a page, put your affiliate banner and tell them to make sure their cookies on and go click on your banner and sign up? so much easier that way
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    • Profile picture of the author John Durham
      Originally Posted by activetrader View Post

      Why don't you just set up a page, put your affiliate banner and tell them to make sure their cookies on and go click on your banner and sign up? so much easier that way
      That is an excellent idea, however I will be marketing to people offline, who aren't necessarily sitting at their computers at the time, or who do not even necessarily have internet access, but want a web page...small mom and pop type businesses. I like to get the sale while it's hot...this avoids having to make a million follow up calls "did you register with host gator yet..."?

      100 bucks is only worth so much time.

      That's why I'm brainstorming with fellow warriors, to see how worthwhile of an idea it might be though. Thanks.

      Originally Posted by rondo View Post

      They would pay me first, and I would register it under their name and pay for it myself. I would not act as them.

      You are suggesting it's OK to act as them while entering into the domain contract. I don't think that's OK.

      And I don't think you're being arrogant just because we disagree.
      Well, if you pay for it yourself then all of the sales would come from the same credit card. I have heard of people getting their commissions frozen for that. Which is why I brought up the question. That was my original idea. I wondered if vendors were as suspicious of the same IP with different cc numbers as they are of the same cc numbers coming from different IP's..."
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      • Profile picture of the author activetrader
        Originally Posted by kadensnga View Post

        That is an excellent idea, however I will be marketing to people offline, who aren't necessarily sitting at their computers at the time, or who do not even necessarily have internet access, but want a web page...small mom and pop type businesses. I like to get the sale while it's hot...this avoids having to make a million follow up calls "did you register with host gator yet..."?

        100 bucks is only worth so much time.

        That's why I'm brainstorming with fellow warriors, to see how worthwhile of an idea it might be. though. Thanks. It's looking less worthwhile by the the minute.
        If you are using the same computer and the same IP address for everyone, and this is the same address you are using to log in and check your stats, hostgator may very well deny your commission after review
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  • Profile picture of the author Tsnyder
    Listen...

    This is a serious legal topic. Why are you asking this question
    on a marketing forum?

    You need to seek advice from an attorney well versed on the subject.

    When you do you're going to find out that collecting other people's
    credit card info to then place an order for them through a third party
    is illegal. Every credit card order form has an authorized user certification
    statement. Unless you are an authorized user listed on the account
    you will be committing a felony.

    Pay ZERO attention to those who say it isn't a problem... pay ZERO attention
    to me... CALL AN ATTORNEY TOMORROW.

    Tsnyder
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    If you knew what I know you'd be doing what I do...
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    • Profile picture of the author John Durham
      Originally Posted by Tsnyder View Post

      Listen...

      This is a serious legal topic. Why are you asking this question
      on a marketing forum?

      You need to seek advice from an attorney well versed on the subject.

      When you do you're going to find out that collecting other people's
      credit card info to then place an order for them through a third party
      is illegal. Every credit card order form has an authorized user certification
      statement. Unless you are an authorized user listed on the account
      you will be committing a felony.

      Pay ZERO attention to those who say it isn't a problem... pay ZERO attention
      to me... CALL AN ATTORNEY TOMORROW.

      Tsnyder
      I used to have a room that did over million dollars a year taking customers credit cards over the phone, and purchasing their domains for them , and we had 2 attorneys on retainer. I know that it's not illegal to do with the customers recorded consent. If you are acting on behalf of the vendor, in this case I would be representing host gator as an affiliate and acting on their behalf. Not pretending to be the client but rather doing the data entry of processing the clients information on hostgators behalf through hostgators merchant account, and the customer would get hosting from hostgator. They would "own" their domain name, not me.

      That wasn't the question.

      In answer to your question, I am not asking a legal question in the forum. I am asking if affiliate programs do this with people, and wether or not anyone has ever done it successfully.
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  • Profile picture of the author Tsnyder
    Okay... have it your way... I know better.

    Tsnyder
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    • Profile picture of the author John Durham
      Originally Posted by Tsnyder View Post

      Okay... have it your way... I know better.

      Tsnyder
      Not trying to offend once again. But you didnt address the real question I was asking.

      I would NEVER do anything that was not legal or ethical. Nor do I do anything illegal when I loan my daughter my credit card to go shopping. Now if she took it shopping without my consent, then that would be illegal, and I could sue her, otherwise I have no need to and the whole question of legality is pointless.

      If your customers are asking you to do it, and have no plans to pursue you for fraud, why would it ever be an issue?

      I will check with hostgator.
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      • Profile picture of the author MrsAuspicious
        Originally Posted by kadensnga View Post

        Not trying to offend once again. But you didnt address the real question I was asking.

        I would NEVER do anything that was not legal or ethical. Nor do I do anything illegal when I loan my daughter my credit card to go shopping. Now if she took it shopping without my consent, then that would be illegal, and I could sue her, otherwise I have no need to and the whole question of legality is pointless.

        If your customers are asking you to do it, and have no plans to pursue you for fraud, why would it ever be an issue?

        I will check with hostgator.


        I'm totally stunned by this thread :rolleyes: I'm an Avon Representative and almost daily I have customer's call in or email in orders,with their credit card numbers, expiration and the 3 digit vericode on the back. I do with with Avon and Tupperware. They call and tell me their CC# and I place the order online. If you compare Direct Sales and the TOS of any affiliate they are almost identical in a variety of ways. I have I believe 25+ credit card forms on file that have what we call open stats on. Each time the customer calls or emails in an order, I pull their file and the credit card is debited the proper amount.
        Anyhow, I believe this thread was only opened to inquire on whether or not Hostgator allowed this. I just found the info in their TOS This specific company doesn't allow it although there are OTHERS that do
        8. Relationship of Parties.
        You and HostGator are independent contractors, and nothing in this Agreement will create any partnership, joint venture, agency franchise, sales representative, or employment relationship between the parties. You will have no authority to make or accept any offers or representations on our behalf. You will not make any statement, whether on your site or otherwise, that reasonably would contradict anything in this Section. You are not an agent of the HostGator and HostGator expressly disclaims responsibility for any conduct by you in violation of our terms of agreement.
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  • Profile picture of the author HoefferFan
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    • Profile picture of the author John Durham
      Originally Posted by HoefferFan View Post

      Short term income plan? It actually might be the stupidest thing I have ever heard in my life. I would be willing to wager my mercedes that you don't make 2 sales.
      You sure about that? This is a no brainer.

      Calling peoples ideas stupid isn't very becoming by the way. Keep rockin out those one liners!!!


      Originally Posted by MrsAuspicious View Post

      I'm totally stunned by this thread :rolleyes: I'm an Avon Representative and almost daily I have customer's call in or email in orders,with their credit card numbers, expiration and the 3 digit vericode on the back. (This specific company doesn't allow it although there are OTHERS that do
      Well that's not what I was hoping, but host gator was only an example. There must be a way to market affliate programs offline to people who don't even have internet... Anyway, thanks for the answer, you would think some people had never operated offline before. Hello? Tupperware? Avon? Mari kay? Fuller Brush? SMC?

      That's what 3 digit veri codes are for.

      Thank you.
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  • Profile picture of the author artwebster
    The major problem here is that you are not supplying what the customer wants to buy - you are 'holding out' as the customer and buying in his name. To do this you must have written consent.

    Because the customer is not an active participant in the purchase, there are questions relating to any guarantee that have to be considered - it would not be enough to inform the supplier that you were acting as proxy for the customer (many guarantees are not transferable) nor, for that matter, to inform the customer that you will act as his proxy and buy on his behalf.

    As has already been stated, this requires solid qualified legal advice.

    If you were supplying the product that the customer wants to buy, no problem.
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  • Profile picture of the author DaveDunn
    Why don't you just ask Hostgator if this is acceptable practice?
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  • Profile picture of the author globalpro
    OK,

    Not trying to be antagonistic, but all I keep hearing is that you 'used' to do this and want to do it now. Times have changed and the potential for CC fraud has as well. More importantly, legal precedent is being set everyday about liability when there's a problem.

    The person that is saying they do this with Avon, may be doing it, but what are the liability concerns involved. All it takes is one problem and if a law is being violated, I guarantee you the answer will, "ignorance of the law is no excuse'.

    As it's pointed out above, contact an attorney for legal advice. That would be the place to start.

    Thanks,

    John
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    kadensnga,

    Globalpro is right! IF you are an agent, it is different. So WHY is this bad?

    1. This could cause disputes, because....
    2. It could be considered laundering, because....
    3. There are no phone records or IP logs to track.
    4. You may not have issued the appropriate info and disclaimers. For example, do you tell them HOSTGATOR(however they indicate the charge) will be making the charge? Leaving that ONE item out is grounds for dispute, etc....

    BTW you are NOT doing this for free. It is basically a premium with their purchase. That is the way the FTC sees it.

    Privacy rules are stricter, ID fraud is more popular, people are more cautious!

    Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author derekwong28
    Practically speaking, what would be look like to a credit card processor or payment gateway if you have a large number of orders from the same ip address using different credit cards registered to different people? It would look blatant fraud and most payment processor would flag the transactions as supicious immediately or even block further transactions from your ip. That is unless the payment is not done in real time by the vendor. That is why you have to contact the vendor and ask for their approval should the number of transactions be big.

    Derek
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    • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
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      • Profile picture of the author John Durham
        Just for the record here was host gators response:



        Hello,

        this is permitted as long as you are using their billing, payment and contact information on file.

        Thank you for contacting HostGator!

        Jay Weissman
        Affiliate Director
        Sales Administrator
        1-866-96-GATOR

        Think I made this up? Call him!



        On another note:

        It's not looking like the best idea anyway after projecting it out. The reseller account idea DOES look better. I appreciate everyone's input. I already make good money online. Just trying to find something "simpler". Thanks everyone for brainstorming with me!

        A local pastor had asked me about starting a statewide online network (web directory) for local ministers/churches... I figured I could give them their web pages for free and still make money... many of them are without internet access.

        Lastly:

        Thank you for your concern for my legal well being as a fellow warrior.

        In "reality" though; it's pointless to argue that it's not a regular ethical, even "popular" business practice which happens everyday all over the world in companies large and small, who are far from being scam artists.

        Avon isn't going to be shutting down anytime soon, nor Tupperwear, nor Fuller Brush, nor SMC...but then, maybe the government just hasn't caught on to what they do after 100 years, or we know something that their team of legal advisers doesn't...

        I'm finding more daily that IM knowledge and general business knowledge are not synonymous!

        Originally Posted by globalpro View Post

        OK,Not trying to be antagonistic, but all I keep hearing is that you 'used' to do this and want to do it now. Times have changed and the potential for CC fraud has as well. The person that is saying they do this with Avon, may be doing it, but what are the liability concerns involved.
        John
        Not to be antagonistic but; are you for real?

        You're making generalizations and saying nothing, however I at least appreciate that you are not spouting in a dogmatic tone...

        To all 'other' concerned parties:

        I am the least cocky person you will ever meet, also never one to "issue" a challenge, but WILL "stand up" to one. Just because someone spouts something off in an "authoritative manner" , that doesn't make them an authority, anymore than just because someone is bigger than you means they can kick your butt.

        Ask MSN.

        For those of you who are interested:

        The answer to the "actual" question asked is provided by host gator above in case anyone ever wonders in the future, hopefully this thread will serve to help you
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  • Profile picture of the author globalpro
    OK,

    Wasn't trying to be 'authoritative', but instaed speaking from the experience of working for a security/compliance company that helps businesses comply with industry standards and the law. Since the responses I gave came off as generalizations, your post stated 'Let's say I design...'

    Nothing specific about it.

    At the same time, I do apologize for my responses. I thought you were looking for honest input. After reading your responses to the different people, I understand now that you intend to do this irregardless of the responses you get. I guess what you were seeking is validation.

    Sorry my bad. All the best in what you do.

    Thanks,

    John
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    • Profile picture of the author John Durham
      Originally Posted by globalpro View Post

      OK,

      Wasn't trying to be 'authoritative', but instaed speaking from the experience of working for a security/compliance company that helps businesses comply with industry standards and the law. Since the responses I gave came off as generalizations, your post stated 'Let's say I design...'

      Nothing specific about it.

      At the same time, I do apologize for my responses. I thought you were looking for honest input. After reading your responses to the different people, I understand now that you intend to do this irregardless of the responses you get. I guess what you were seeking is validation.

      Sorry my bad. All the best in what you do.

      Thanks,

      John
      A: I wasn't directing the Authoritative comment to you. It was addressed to "others".
      B: I "did" want input, but only on the question being asked.
      C: I wasn't bent on doing it irregardless..., as you can see by reading above, I abandoned the idea after considering all the variables.
      D: "let's say I design..." is hypothetical but still describes a specific idea...being hypothetical isn't being less specific.

      Sorry to come across as defensive. I guess I probably 'was' a little. Felt a little attacked and belittled, by Tsnyder addressing me as if I were an idiot for asking a legitmate question on this forum, and obviously not reading thoroughly because I wasn't even asking the question he addressed.

      Please understand that even now, your response is based on the EXACT opposite of what I am saying above.

      Wishing you the best as well.
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  • Profile picture of the author TheFlash
    Bo Mill was asking for $47 for a "WSO" selling exactly this idea... to advertise free websites for people... then give them affiliate link to host on hostgator...
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