Why do so many successful online marketers have bad customer service?

[rmx]

I recently purchased products from 2 successful online marketers. I KNOW they have been successful in their niches.

In one case several important links that were part of the purchase don't work. Also part of the website has been down. I sent numerous emails to tell about the problem. I actually got one response back and they said would take care of it in a few days. that was 2 weeks ago. Another person told me they had the same experience.

The other site is a monthly membership. There has been almost no activity for the last month. Things that were promised weeks ago never happened.

Both of the marketers had larger upsells they were offering.

The material they had was good and I probably would have bought more from both of them if they would have had decent customer service.

I'm sure they know the biggest expense is to get new customers.

The best customers are ones who have already purchased from you...if you treat them right.

Sometimes the bigger we grow the more we forget the basics.

RMX

[Habitat]

It's true. No excuses but they are probably trying to take on everything that comes on their plate..and start forgetting. That's just a guess though. Sorry that happened to you

[adetutu]

Sorry,majority of them are like that because they believed they have arrived.But if thre's any internet marketer I would ever leave to respect,that person would be Steve Wagenheim.His customer service is "THUMB UP".

He'll make sure you don't have any cause to complain.It happened to me too.Some online marketers on this forum,they called themselves ******brothers.It took me time pestering one of them before I was able to get my download link from them.But Steve never does that.I've dealt with him.
Thanks

[Irene Houston]

You've highlighted a really important point here - it's all too easy to forget the 'courtesy element' involved in treating existing customers/clients with respect.

No doubt these internet marketers are too busy counting their money to reply to your queries... but will they have return business? I doubt it.

[EndGame]

I know where you are coming from with this.

I don't think the majority of successful online marketers are like this, but there are too many like this.

My honest opinion? I think some of these so-called gurus are victims of their own success. They know how to make money, make the sale, market to the crowd, setup JV deals, drive traffic, create desire and urgency. They invest so much time in that, they burn themselves out and often leave customer service to the last minute. They lose sight of it, and are too over-worked to do it themselves. Unfortunately, some of the remote staff they hire don't understand the business or don't have the training required to live up to the desired standards in customer services.

A lot of these marketers are one-man-bands and this business (because it is a business) is just too much for one person. And for whatever reason, there is a reluctance to hire good trained staff.

Of course, I am talking a little bit too generally here, and I am at risk of taring everyone with the same brush. To be honest, there are a lot of marketers out there with excellent customer service. But I have experienced un-delivered promises before after purchasing something and it is hugely disappointing and I see where you are coming from.

The skill now, is seeing what these guys are doing right, copying that and improving on what they get wrong.

[MichaelHiles]

IMHO it's because marketers, by nature, know that their game is purely numbers, and if they blow off a customer, many tend to ignore the implications because they can just sell some more.

I don't happen to agree with a lot of this because I also understand the financial aspects to business operations beyond pure sales and markeing, and I understand the concept of cost of obtaining a customer vs. the cost of keeping one.

[oortcloud]

Simple, because they are experts in marketing and their interest lies in marketing and selling. Actually delivering content is the boring laborious part. So it doesnt get much attention.

[MidMido]

Because they did everything but left the customer service in the last place

[JustaWizard]

I don't have any Internet Marketers to complain about, but I am a HUGE fan of good customer service in general, and have managed many retail and food service establishments in my younger years...

...bottom line, there is absolutely no excuse for anything other than giving at least good customer service, if not stellar knock-your-socks-off customer service.

Best,
David

[Blase]

My first response is because they are successful
in spite of themselves.

I wish I would have keep a list of all of the bad service and
screwings I've had.

Three weeks ago I actually took the time to write and mail
a real letter regarding a problem. NO RESPONSE!

I also think part of the problem is these guys don't
know they have a problem because it's all outsourced.

[bryce]

Calling a spade a spade...... Most just dont care! They care about making things right, to take your money, then they dont want to know, after they have it!

I am a salesman from way back, and even offline, some sales people are trained to "ignore" peoples problems for a period of time, in the hope that the customer considers the wasted time too much, and discontinues their communication.

Memberships (recurring) would probably be the exclusion to the rule as the customer is also likely to cancel the membership, and this always makes a seller sit up and listen, at least in the interim.

[Kyle Tully]

Personally I think the main reason is simply because most marketers focus on marketing instead of management.

Which isn't much of a problem at first -- you can handle a few support requests here and there without any issues.

But if you don't setup the infrastructure to handle a large volume of clients BEFORE you actually get them... that's when it becomes a nightmare.

[Steve Wisley]

It really P.O.'s a person when you spend your money and have to spend your time and energy to get the service you deserve. That's why customer service is so important. Everyone talks about building a list...well, you can't build a list if people keep falling off because you don't perform. So, these people are really hurting themselves. Some may not realize it and some may not care.

But, the bottom line is you have to take care of your customer no matter what. If you are getting to the place where it is not possible to give good service yourself then it is time to think about finding help. Sometimes that's hard...after all it is MY business. But, to keep moving up with your business you just gotta' do it.

[artwebster]

Could it be because they haven't read that part of their ecourse yet?

Customer service is paid scant attention to in much training.

I'm fortunate in that I cannot afford to buy anything but many months ago I was bought a WSO (I really thought they were different!) - it was incomplete so I completed a support ticket and contacted the warrior involved.

I shouldn't have bothered.

The product is still incomplete.

[ExRat]

Hi rmx,

I guess you're talking about the IM/biz opps market?

Some people in this thread have sussed it, some haven't.

The OP said -

I'm sure they know the biggest expense is to get new customers.

The best customers are ones who have already purchased from you...if you treat them right.

Sometimes the bigger we grow the more we forget the basics.

Well I don't currently operate in this market, but I study it intensely.

If you look at who is making the money and who is not, you will come to these conclusions -

The biggest expense is trying to retain *happy* customers in the long term. Mainly because most people will fail to make money regardless of what methods they study.

The best customers are the ones who jump from product to product, buying everything in sight.

There is a percentage of the market who will give anything a fair shot, fail to refund or fail to give the seller a hard time. If you gravitate to high-ticket items, and spend your time purely on pushing people past the point where they are able to either -

a) refund

b) refund the total cost

that percentage becomes lucrative.

Anonymity and mutliple personalities rule. Many of the top earners have multiple personas and repackage their work using these personas. They also promote these personas using their other personas - giving themsleves recommendations and testimonials.

If you have a conscience in this market, you will most likely fail or only ever achieve mediocrity.

You must be able to target the desperate, vulnerable, weak-minded, naive and uninformed. And you must be prepared to bleed them dry, frustrate the life out of them and leave them needing a little more, every time.

Most people who don't achieve IM greatness but do OK, and have a conscience, overcome this conscience barrier by promoting others via simple adverts.

If they don't see the evil, then in their mind they are not perpetuating it. For example, someone said something like this on this forum not long ago -

'I don't like all of these rip off products, so I keep my conscience clean by just making my money off adsense.'

Duh. Anyone see the irony?

You're better off discarding your conscience completely than accepting crumbs and fooling yourself that you're a saint.

How can long term customers possibly pay off in this market?

Generally, they have two paths to take -

a) fail - in which case they are not around in the long term

b) succeed - in which case they're not going to be buying your average IM product in the long term

Yet still, many people talk about 'keeping customers in the long term' as the holy grail. They don't realise that they are not talking about how to be successful as an IMer. They are talking about how they wish that sellers would treat them as a customer.

And they can talk about it all they like, but the people making the coin are going to respond to what works for them and what doesn't.

Here's a simple experiment that anyone can do.

Go to the review forum. Read the long posts about the major IM product launches. Ignore the obviously false posts with glowing recommendations from affiliates, partners, circle jerk friends and so on.

You will probably see a recurring theme in there, as you try and establish what the successful sellers are doing in this marketplace.

There's the answer to the million dollar question. There's the secret to making money in the biz opps market that you have been desperately seeking.

It aint pretty and it aint wholesome. Much of life isn't. It's dog eat dog - survival of the fittest.

Make your own choices and do things in a way that sits comfortably with you. It's you who has to live with yourself. Think about how much money you really need to achieve your goals in life. Go and get that money in the best way possible for you, and you are then a success.

Just don't be fooled - not only by others, but also by yourself.

[EndGame]

Epic post Exrat, as always.

Here is a question though (not to challenge what you say, but so that I can better understand it); are you saying all biz op and make money online gurus and vendorswho have been successful are guilty of the above, or the majority?

I might be naive, but some very successful marketers in this industry at least seem to be good guys who have a conscience. Frank Kern, MikeFilsaime (who both did a lot for the Macy John's appeal).

[ExRat]

Hi EndGame,

are you saying all biz op and make money online gurus and vendorswho have been successful are guilty of the above, or the majority?

I'm saying that enough of them appear to use this approach that it's a statistically relevant amount - enough for me to generalise and suggest that it's the majority of the ones who are currently cleaning up.

Of course, there are many different shades. And it would be mainly pointless of me (or anyone) to try and classify them into some kind of good/evil bracket.

The main focus of this forum is to discuss online marketing and to hopefully home in on the good stuff that works. Ideally, in most cases, we take that knowledge away with us, consider it against our own personal values and do with it as we choose.

My main point for posting was to emphasize that so many are starting out with the assumption that 'the only good marketing is fundamentally based upon building long term relationships.'

In general, it may well be. And in general, the cost of aquiring new customers may be the most important consideration.

BUT, as we are talking specifically about the biz opps market online, then all of the evidence that I have seen suggests that this market is the exception to the rule. And when I consider the reasons why, it makes more sense.

So those who start out with that assumption (that long term customers rule) are going to miss a whole boatload of tricks that appear to be working well, currently.

I might be naive, but some very successful marketers in this industry at least seem to be good guys who have a conscience. Frank Kern, MikeFilsaime (who both did a lot for the Macy John's appeal).

I would add that unless I'm mistaken, Mr. Filsaime was one of those who truly graduated through the warrior school (apologies if I'm incorrect M.F.) - unlike many others who have posted here occasionally, but mainly when they have a launch - so kudos to him for that.

An open, hypothetical question for you, that is asked purely to stimulate thought, rather than in relation to anyone named above -

Hypothetically, if I were to be the most cut-throat marketer in IM (in terms of how I focus totally on profit, don't get too caught up on fantastic customer service, appear to sell anything I can lay my hands on and partner with anyone who will entertain the partnership and also utilise every single customer annoying but ROI increasing gadget I can find) BUT I also 'did a lot of public work for charity'....does that last part change anything, in terms of my business ethics or how the customer feels about doing business with me? How about if I 'paid' for the charitable acts purely through exploiting my customers?

It's well known that people in the public eye have PR departments, agents and even spin doctors who are employed purely to plan public events and PR stunts that will engraciate the person with the public as an ethical, caring, sensitive, conscience driven individual - this is a common and perfectly acceptable set up.

This is not-so-far-removed from some of the points I was trying to make above - those who sacrifice the time it can take to administer prolific customer service, tend to compensate by putting the time into their own PR. Not only does this lessen the impact of any public customer rants, it also ensures that there is plenty of good PR out there to introduce the swarms of new prospects to their brand.

Perhaps they have deduced that the time spent on this activity is more productive than time spent 'holding the hands' of existing customers, in the hope that those satisfied customers will write positive PR for them?

Perhaps, overall, buyers see a fickle bunch of sellers and are therefore fickle themselves? Or vice versa (chicken/egg), which (either way) leads to less unsolicited positive reviews. Perhaps it's better to write your own?

It may also be true to say that if some of the least ethical sellers are selling training for systems that they have never employed themselves, it makes more sense to quickly move on to the next project than it does to spend time trying to get people to understand something that they don't really understand themselves.

[EndGame]

Thanks for the comprehensive reply.

Like you, I should have seperated the PR from the customer service. In fact, whether PR or not, I should have seperated their involvement with charity from their customer service and business practices. I really used the charity exaple as a way to illustrate their good qualities. Perhaps I have been duped by good PR, and confused the issue.

What I was trying to say though, was my experience of Frank Kern's team and Mike Filsaime has led me to believe they do pay attention to customer service and do make good on promises to their customers. I could have put that better though.

I realize you were being general, and not specific about marketers in this industry, but I just wanted to confirm it.

I agree with a lot of what you say. It seems very easy for successful marketers to attract hungry newcomers to their email lists and massive product launchs and promotions, and in a way, they do play on some of the weaknesses of their prospects and customers. That is what I find most difficult about that market.

I have seen many warriors and marketers suggest that if you know just a bit about internet marketing, you are in a position to teach others about it, and so you should as it is lucrative. I have struggled with this, and never entered the "space" for a couple of years. When I comment on something, I want to know what I say is legitimate and helpful and I don't really think I could allow myself to outright lie about my earnings, abilities or knowledge.

I do know of some people who have been creative with the truth and have made a lot of money by doing so. The idea is attractive, a few innaccuracies here and there, followed by a bucket load of cash flowing into my paypal and bob's your uncle. But it doesn't sit comfortably with me. Yes it would be relatively easy (easier than some of the things I have done in the past) but I don't know if I am ready to trade my morals for cash.

I have started a blog on online marketing and my businesses, but I don't have a product to sell, and don't feel I am in a position to make guarantees on what people could earn following my advice. I wouldn't feel right about lying about what I do in order to get a good financial return. But I do enjoy using my blog and articles to submit my thoughts to the marketplace of ideas an get feedback on them.

At one time, I may have been tempted to promote certain make money products, in much the same way you describe in your post. Knowing something doesn't sit right with the product, but promoting it in a half-assed way to recieve a little commission and at the same time, distance myself from the bad vibes. That would be a huge mistake for me personally and in business.

Thanks again for your posts in this thread, it has all genuinely given me food for thought.

[EndGame]

[quote=ExRat;906171]Hi EndGame,

I'm saying that enough of them appear to use this approach that it's a statistically relevant amount...quote]


On another note, you should post to your blog more.

[ExRat]

Hi EndGame,

On another note, you should post to your blog more

If I had a pound for every time... Yeah, you're right. Thanks for the nudge.

[mrmcd]

Some of them are use to receive those big pay checks all to themselves. As it's the end of the financial year now, this is a good time to have a think about this topic. I am doing all my new projects and ventures with at least one partner.
Having said that, I also want to add that customer service is sadly missed these days! Just think about your last flight, or dinner at a nice restaurant, whats going on!

[Frank Donovan]

Some interesting points made in this thread, particularly on the value of new vs previous buyers.

While it's a general commercial truth that it's cheaper to sell to an existing customer than to acquire a new one, that assumes there's a constant flow of new products or services that can be offered.

The larger manufacturing companies may approach this issue by incorporating some built-in obsolescence in their products - making it necessary for existing customers to upgrade at regular intervals.

Big pharmaceutical firms have often been accused of shunning cures for diseases in favour of an endless supply of "new" drugs intended merely to relieve the symptoms.

Those involved in the MMO/BizOpp market have a potential problem in this respect. Once the end of the traditional funnel has been reached (usually a top-end coaching/mentoring program) there isn't much scope for diversification.

Yes, you could jump on everyone else's big launch and blitz your list with affiliate offers.

But, knowing that there's an almost endless stream of hungry, eager and naive buyers entering the MMO market all the time, many successful marketers find it easier to keep targeting these ripe, newbie pickings, either by continually revamping their old products or by adopting different personas and effectively being their own competition. After all, they've done this before and they now have the process down to a fine art.

In this context, it's not too hard to see how the concept of keeping existing customers happy may not have quite the same appeal as in other businesses.


Frank

[rcm3rd]

I think customer service everywhere has suffered from
the big companies to the smaller ones.

IM gurus, not all, are not the best, for sure. I don't
know why exactly.

Whatever the reason, a business is a business.
If I treated people in my offline biz the way I've been treated
online, I would be toast , fast.

So I only stick to guys like Marlon Sanders who give
great content as well as customer service.

I just won't support anyone who suck at customer service
plan and simple