I may actually close my paypal account

[MichaelHiles]

PowerPay.

They are the defacto CC provider for the IM business.

[Dana_W]

I'd be less peeved if I were someone who had a ton of refund requests but as I said, I've gotten ONE refund request through paypal, and I refunded it promptly. And I do a LOT of transactions.

Also - I make the vast majority of my money these days from services - writing press releases and distributing them - NOT from info products.

And this is why I don't like companies that are monopolies - they don't feel obligated to provide good customer services or to be particularly concerned about being responsive to their customer's needs.

However, this is basically just me venting. I appreciate the insight from everyone, and I will stay with them from the time being but try to reduce as much as possible the amount of payments I take through them , and steer as many people as possible towards Visa and mastercard.

[Alice Seba]

Originally Posted by billbarrett

You can try 2checkout.com - it is a very nice payment processor and they now offer to transfer your earnings directly to a debit MasterCard. )

2Checkout has a 5% reserve with a 90 day hold, just FYI:


2Checkout.com - Merchant Account / Credit Card Processing Alternative Is There a Reserve Policy?


...and they reserve the right to increase it.

I use them and am happy with them, but you don't get away from the reserve by moving to 2CO. It is a smaller percentage, but they hold it longer. Plus, they only release funds once per week. With PayPal, you get instant access.

Alice

[Andy Hart]

The problem I have with this is that Paypal are well known to just close your account at any given time and give no real reason, so then your money just sits with them for 90 days until it is "investigated" ( and who earns the interest??).

So my point is that I very regularly withdraw the main bulk of my PP account so they cant take it from me at the drop of a hat when they decide to close my account, and this is very common and happens to people who are squeaky clean, I know many will disagree but it DOES happen a lot.

So how the hell do we get round that?

I don't want to leave money in my PP account and have a CC in place to cover refunds??

Not good news

andy

[bizideas]

Originally Posted by Andy Hart

So my point is that I very regularly withdraw the main bulk of my PP account so they cant take it from me at the drop of a hat when they decide to close my account, and this is very common and happens to people who are squeaky clean, I know many will disagree but it DOES happen a lot.

So how the hell do we get round that?

I don't want to leave money in my PP account and have a CC in place to cover refunds??

Not good news

andy

Andy or Dana,

There is also a function called an "auto sweep" in which every night your funds are routed to your bank account automatically instead of manually doing it yourself. You have to have high volume in order to get this approved. Don't expect to get this setup via an email either. Talk to your account
rep in order to get this setup. It's not something that's clearly posted on their site (last I checked).

Before we moved to authorize.net We always kept a certain amount to cover for refunds as well. Certainly not 10%. Let's say we had 16,000 dollars in payments over the course of the weekend. We could usually expect about 2% of that to be refunds or customer complaints and what have you. So we'd keep 300 to 500 in the Paypal account to service customers.

[bizideas]

Originally Posted by Dana_W

I'd be less peeved if I were someone who had a ton of refund requests but as I said, I've gotten ONE refund request through paypal, and I refunded it promptly. And I do a LOT of transactions.

Also - I make the vast majority of my money these days from services - writing press releases and distributing them - NOT from info products.

Dana,

Oh, I'd be pissed too. I've been in your shoes. Paypal just hammers people with no warning. Most people don't "get it" because it hasn't happened to them. They just assume you're a shady or naive business person. I even thought that, until...

Back in 2005 I had $40,000 frozen because we had a "huge surge in business." We were blind sided without any warning whatsoever. I had to give them all kinds of info including where my warehouses were, location photos, SSN/Tax ID, driver's license, home address, electric bill, purchase orders for my inventory, etc, etc. Oh man I was livid, afraid, sick, and everything else. Did I give them what they wanted? YOU BET. I would've given them my pet schnauzer if they wanted it. I was in a serious fix because I needed to pay bills, buy inventory, and pay employees like normal businesses do. After 4 days of dozens of emails, phone calls, missed phone calls, and faxes they released our funds...make that 47K worth because the money just kept rolling in, we just couldn't access it during the freeze!

Now I found that sometime later that they lost a class action lawsuit for this kind of activity. We didn't get in on it because we had already moved to authorize.net and e-online data. I'm not advocating that you dump Paypal but just be informed of your options before you get hit by a bus.
Customers love having them as an option and you'll certainly lose business if you don't take it (USA, I can't speak for other regions).

Here's what you can do.

When you a chance, call Paypal and ask to get an account representative assigned to you. Doing this is somewhat of a proactive measure that can curtail and shape your account as your business grows. Let your rep know the profile of your business and tell them that the vast majority of your payments are for services. If you are including signatures for contract and completion, that's even better because Paypal can forward those documents to the CC processor when a chargeback dispute comes in. Illustrate to them your refund ratios. If you're doing "A LOT" of transactions then many times they will be accommodating. This is especially true if you're doing the bulk of your business outside of eBay which has a real stronghold on how merchants take payments. This is of course because eBay owns Paypal (but that's another discussion altogether.). Remember there's a lot of competition on the net for merchant services.

While you have them on the phone, ask them to set your account up for auto sweep, which will transfer funds over to your bank every night.

Doing some of these things could in fact get that percentage lowered.
Think about it, do they really need to hold 7K of a 70K week or month if your refund ratio is low to begin with? I don't think so. I think they've profiled your business incorrectly.

I could go on and on about advantages vs. disadvantages of various online merchant services but I think I'll stop rambling.

[bizideas]

Originally Posted by Melody

Actually, no, their rates are not awful - the average merchant pays none of the usual fees affiliated with having your own direct merchant account, which are anywhere from $25 to $100 per month on top of your txn fees, and the standard "rolling reserve" period is actually 6 months - not 60 days. Small merchants rarely pay less than 2.75% - and digital products are often as high as 5%.

Find out what the competition charges before you complain about PP - you might be surprised.

Melody

Well Yeah, that's very true. At the end of the month, Paypal ends up being cheaper...and check this out.
Whenever we receive a chargeback, whether valid or invalid, we have to fork over 25 dollars to our processor. Not our gateway, but to our processor. So if a customer forgets that they charged this thing or that, or if their wife/husband used the card on something and the customer is too lazy to call us and find out what it was and just file a chargeback, we get to pay. Even when we're right.

That scenario doesn't happen with Paypal.

[Scott Murdaugh]

I personally think that EVERYONE should consider closing down their Paypal account... Over the years they've completely destroyed the businesses of thousands of legitimate sellers... They froze I believe $15k+ designated to donated to the Red Cross for Katrina survivors...

And several months ago they froze my account without warning... I'd been a customer with no issues for over 6 years. They froze several thousand dollars worth of my money.

The only "reason" they gave me was that they've detected my account was "high risk"...

I started a huge thread about it on here... And I got a lot of replies like "You're not telling the whole truth, you did something wrong..."

Bull****. I've done nothing wrong, not now and not over the 6 years I was working with them.

I refuse to work with a company that can put me through that kind of hell for no reason. If it where up to me the FTC should shut down Paypal ASAP.

Does anyone really want to work with a company who can freeze all of your money and shut down your account for absolutely no reason?

I know I don't.

-Scott

[InternetMarketingIQ]

"Your business is important to us"

Well obviously it is... that's why they are keeping only a small amount on reserve ... just 10%!!!

And who earns the interest on this small amount? Paypal is Corporate America and corporate America is stomping all over the liberties of the american people.

My bank just sent me a notice that they are raising my checking fees to $15 a month unless I keep an absurdly high balance for which I earn ZERO interest.

What can you do... you have to have a bank right? And you have to have some way to get payments.

This is a fun little watch for those who like video tutorials and appreciate the freedom to do business without being taxed to death: YouTube - The Obama Deception HQ Full length version

It's long but well worth your time to watch. Small Business is being pushed out. Censorship is on it's way. Autonomy? Hardly. If you can't get access to money you can not grow and if there are not people with money to buy your products you can not grow.

Hidden Taxes are on the rise and there is no real end in sight. It's alarming but most people have their heads in the ground and refuse to believe the reality of what is happening.

Green House Gases and Global warming are the guise by which taxes are going to be levied.

Obama is FORCING business to comply with laws that will raise the cost of everything.

Nellis Airforce base has a new $100 million dollar Solar Powered facility. It saves them $1 million a year! Hello... can anyone do the math? Would you invest $1,000 to save $10 a year on anything? The payout will never come. The cost to maintain the facility will eat away the yearly savings. Renewable energy is a nice thing to think about... but it has to make economic sense. And forcing people to bleed out every last dollar in an economy that has negative growth is a recipe for disaster.

And it all comes back to the Secrecy of the Privately Owned Federal Reserve Bank.

So don't expect business to get easier it is only going to get harder.

American Express paid their CEO $48 million in 2008. Then they cut the credit limits on nearly all their members while at the same time raising their maxium card rate to 27% and for good measure they began to charge overage fees on the new lower balance limits. And to top it off they took $3.5 Billion in Government Handouts.

That is just one example. AIG got $160 billion! One company! One company that makes what? They make paper promises! The state of California is $24.3 billion in the hole and they are going to send out IOU's? IOU's to the elderly and disabled? We can't fund the truly needy in our society but we can hand away 7x that amount to the executives at one insurance company?

Lies and Deception... get used to it because more is on it's way.

Paypal is a crap company.

[JB]

I just quit WorldPay for the same reason, they wanted to keep a permanent sum of €15K in reserve in case of charge backs even though the site has not had one in 5 years. Reason they hit me with this is because I set up recently as company with limited liability. I dropped them and went for Paypal - all good so far but I am waiting for something similar albeit not as severe as 15K!

[Bruce Wedding]

Originally Posted by Dana_W

Your reserve amount will be 10% of the total payments you receive, which will be held on a rolling 60-day schedule. That means 10% of the money you take in each day will be held in your account, and then made available for withdrawal 60 days later.

For example, if you receive $2,000 every 60 days into your PayPal account, then a reserve amount of about $400 would be required on a rolling 60-day period. In other words, about $6.67 would be held in reserve each day, then released 60 days later.

Am I the only one confused on the math? $2,000 every 60 days is $33.33 a day. 10% of that is $3.33 a day or $200 every 60 days. They calculated 20%, not 10%.

[Alton Hargrave]

I have used Paypal for years and I always grant my own refunds using their system. I will make the decisions about who gets a refund. I don't want them doing that.

[Nahar]

Originally Posted by Dana_W

And this is why I don't like companies that are monopolies - they don't feel obligated to provide good customer services or to be particularly concerned about being responsive to their customer's needs.

I totally agree with you and appreciate you posting the message from PayPal. I am quite tired reading all those "Yea, they are bad, but you have no choice" replies to your thread. My simple brain tells me: If a company I pay my money to is making my life harder instead of easier - they should pay the consequences so I must do something that will result in them loosing money. If for some reason I am stuck with them - I must find other ways. Otherwise things won't change for the better.

I am not saying that getting rid of PayPal is the way to go in this case (as many people have rightly pointed out here - you would probably loose some business if you did), but there are several things you can do to teach them a lesson or two. One is publishing their correspondence on Warrior Forum to make us consider using PayPal's competitors instead of PayPal - which is what you did and I appreciate it.

You have probably heard this before: evil triumphs when good men do nothing

[TheGodfather]

the only thing i can say is to switch to some other company that doesn't treat it's clients like that.

I switched to moneybookers today and i think that they are ok. They seam to have lower fees then others...

[VegasVince]

Originally Posted by Dana_W

I'd be less peeved if I were someone who had a ton of refund requests but as I said, I've gotten ONE refund request through paypal, and I refunded it promptly. And I do a LOT of transactions.

Also - I make the vast majority of my money these days from services - writing press releases and distributing them - NOT from info products.

And this is why I don't like companies that are monopolies - they don't feel obligated to provide good customer services or to be particularly concerned about being responsive to their customer's needs.

However, this is basically just me venting. I appreciate the insight from everyone, and I will stay with them from the time being but try to reduce as much as possible the amount of payments I take through them , and steer as many people as possible towards Visa and mastercard.

You'se weren't venting Dana...you were telling the truth....hope you don't listen to the sheep... and turn away from what you know is right and wrong. Don't give PayPal that kind of power over you'se girl...cuz you're bigger then that.....

I have spent nearly my entire Warrior Forum career exposing PayPal..... correctly predicting exactly what continues to get handed down from the omnipotent monopoly called PayPal.....aka...GOD to many of you.

Back in the day....my fellow Warriors laughed at me...for being paranoid. It wasn't paranoia...it was common sense.

Few are laughing now....and Vinnie called it right from the beginning...and the proof continues to pile up as honest Warriors finally "get it."

I told you'se people from day one...that most of you bend over and spread 'em for PayPal even when you have done nothing wrong....because you are so frightened over losing the "only game in town" you'll whore your integrity for these people and their arbitrary decisions...that screw far more honest people...then the bad guys they claim they are trying to catch.

I told you peeps....that if your FDIC insured bank screwed you out of even one little dollar bill...you'd bitch and whine....yet when the phantom bank called PayPal takes your money....you kiss their ass and beg to be let back in the club. Sad. True.

I told you'se Warriors that PayPal screws and freezes the account of FAR more HONEST marketers...then the so-called bad apples they pretend they go after. The list of honest Warriors screwed with continues to pile up...and I told you so.

I told you back in the day...that even the Mother Teresa of marketers...would eventually have their accounts screwed with.....and I lost track long ago of the number of big names around here..who have been jerked with.

Don't think it can't happen to you? You are living in Fantasy Land, peeps!

I AM THE ONLY WARRIOR IN THIS JOINT WHO EVER HAD THE BALLS TO EXPOSE PAY PAL'S DIRTY LITTLE SECRET...AND ONE OF THEIR BIGGEST MONEY MAKERS....which is....

THE ARBITRARY FREEZING OF ACCOUNTS FOR UP TO 6 MONTHS.....which means PayPal holds your money...and earns interest on it.....because your PayPal money aint really in PayPal ..it's in Pay Pal's interest bearing bank account! And that's the truth.

AND IT'S BIG BUSINESS FOR PAY PAL.....THE INTEREST THEY MAKE ON FROZEN ACCOUNTS IS MASSIVE....AND WHEN YOU ARE EXONERATED.....THEY WILL RETURN YOUR STOLEN FUNDS 180 DAYS LATER......WITHOUT AN APOLOGY OR WITHOUT ONE DIME OF INTEREST.

That's wrong. It's also criminal.

On the street we call it....skimming.

You Canadians and other foreign accounts.....are being screwed royally on the conversion rate...and you know it. PayPal skims on conversions rates from US dollars to Canadian Dollars...and if you don't believe me....ask Sylvia Rolfe and others....who get screwed daily by the conversion skim.

Dana's letter isn't a suprise to me......the crux of it is this......

PayPal wants yet another reason to hold your money in their banks.....because the interest is massive. It has nothing to do with protecting good people...cuz the good people are the ones PayPal screws.


I have asked this final question....for over two years...and not one Warrior has ever replied:

Here it is again:

What does PayPal do with the money earned off the accounts they freeze and hold for the good of us all..lol????

I suspect that when the anti-trust lawsuit eventually gets handed down....that will be the question of the week.

I have been threatened by Pay Pal lawyers not to bring that up on any of my future radio shows.....and I told them to kiss my ass. So should you people. Don't ever give a monopoly the power over your money...and never beg and kiss ass....for the honor of having them...take yours!


xxx Vegas Vince
Legend.

[TheGodfather]

Originally Posted by VegasVince

You'se weren't venting Dana...you were telling the truth....hope you don't listen to the sheep... and turn away from what you know is right and wrong. Don't give PayPal that kind of power over you'se girl...cuz you're bigger then that.....

I have spent nearly my entire Warrior Forum career exposing PayPal..... correctly predicting exactly what continues to get handed down from the omnipotent monopoly called PayPal.....aka...GOD to many of you.

Back in the day....my fellow Warriors laughed at me...for being paranoid. It wasn't paranoia...it was common sense.

Few are laughing now....and Vinnie called it right from the beginning...and the proof continues to pile up as honest Warriors finally "get it."

I told you'se people from day one...that most of you bend over and spread 'em for PayPal even when you have done nothing wrong....because you are so frightened over losing the "only game in town" you'll whore your integrity for these people and their arbitrary decisions...that screw far more honest people...then the bad guys they claim they are trying to catch.

I told you peeps....that if your FDIC insured bank screwed you out of even one little dollar bill...you'd bitch and whine....yet when the phantom bank called PayPal takes your money....you kiss their ass and beg to be let back in the club. Sad. True.

I told you'se Warriors that PayPal screws and freezes the account of FAR more HONEST marketers...then the so-called bad apples they pretend they go after. The list of honest Warriors screwed with continues to pile up...and I told you so.

I told you back in the day...that even the Mother Teresa of marketers...would eventually have their accounts screwed with.....and I lost track long ago of the number of big names around here..who have been jerked with.

Don't think it can't happen to you? You are living in Fantasy Land, peeps!

I AM THE ONLY WARRIOR IN THIS JOINT WHO EVER HAD THE BALLS TO EXPOSE PAY PAL'S DIRTY LITTLE SECRET...AND ONE OF THEIR BIGGEST MONEY MAKERS....which is....

THE ARBITRARY FREEZING OF ACCOUNTS FOR UP TO 6 MONTHS.....which means PayPal holds your money...and earns interest on it.....because your PayPal money aint really in PayPal ..it's in Pay Pal's interest bearing bank account! And that's the truth.

AND IT'S BIG BUSINESS FOR PAY PAL.....THE INTEREST THEY MAKE ON FROZEN ACCOUNTS IS MASSIVE....AND WHEN YOU ARE EXONERATED.....THEY WILL RETURN YOUR STOLEN FUNDS 180 DAYS LATER......WITHOUT AN APOLOGY OR WITHOUT ONE DIME OF INTEREST.

That's wrong. It's also criminal.

On the street we call it....skimming.

You Canadians and other foreign accounts.....are being screwed royally on the conversion rate...and you know it. PayPal skims on conversions rates from US dollars to Canadian Dollars...and if you don't believe me....ask Sylvia Rolfe and others....who get screwed daily by the conversion skim.

Dana's letter isn't a suprise to me......the crux of it is this......

PayPal wants yet another reason to hold your money in their banks.....because the interest is massive. It has nothing to do with protecting good people...cuz the good people are the ones PayPal screws.


I have asked this final question....for over two years...and not one Warrior has ever replied:

Here it is again:

What does PayPal do with the money earned off the accounts they freeze and hold for the good of us all..lol????

I suspect that when the anti-trust lawsuit eventually gets handed down....that will be the question of the week.

I have been threatened by Pay Pal lawyers not to bring that up on any of my future radio shows.....and I told them to kiss my ass. So should you people. Don't ever give a monopoly the power over your money...and never beg and kiss ass....for the honor of having them...take yours!


xxx Vegas Vince
Legend.

wow... good thing i'm moving away from paypal

[SullyUI]

Seriously, if Paypal wasn't so well trusted, and if I didn't have such a large number of transactions on my account for my reputability, I probably wouldn't use it.

But, regardless, it works well for merchant and online business stuff. I'll probably end up putting up with this hassle like many other business people.

This reminds me of when Paypal was freezing accounts of some members here that had too many transactions in a short period of time.

[JB]

Why use Payapl? Purchasers trust them as being secure (with the transaction and their identity), globally they are a household name and almost everyone with an internet connection has an account. They act like any other massive corporation ie. stomp all over the little guy BUT they get the job done. My guess is that if you did a study of two identical sites you would find a higher conversion rate on the one that offered Paypal. That's why I use them and will continue to use them, at least until something better with the same level of consumer trust comes along - given their size and position in the the marketplace I can't see that happening anytime soon.

[VegasVince]

Originally Posted by Sully Chaudry

Seriously, if Paypal wasn't so well trusted, and if I didn't have such a large number of transactions on my account for my reputability, I probably wouldn't use it.

But, regardless, it works well for merchant and online business stuff. I'll probably end up putting up with this hassle like many other business people.

This reminds me of when Paypal was freezing accounts of some members here that had too many transactions in a short period of time.

Yeah...too many transactions in a short period of time.....is definitely worth freezing someone's account over without so much as a phone call or the need to explain why. lol. And the burden of proof is on you...and good luck.

So sorry PayPal.....I'll try better next time to be a loser...and not sell so much stuff. Can I have my money back....please!

Amazing how PayPal manages to still grab THEIR FEES out of those "too many transactions.".....that they stick in their FDIC insured banks....even though they themselves are NOT FDIC regulated in any way.

Anyone here who still believes your PayPal money is sitting in cyber space! LMAO! If so....pm me so I can sell you some land in Bull Head City Arizona, baby!

And you're right of course....why rock the boat? Never piss of PayPal....cuz you'll die with out them!

God forbid we might piss them off....cuz as we all know....... business could NOT occur with out GOD/PayPal.

I still don't know how people made millions of dollars before this "company"....the ugly step daughter of Ebay...came around. How did Gary Halbert and others like him...make all that money without PayPal????

And PayPal only jerks with the bad guys anyway....right? That's why they exist....to get the bad guys. That's why they freeze accounts...hold money....and this and that! To get the bad guys. Problem is...the bad guys aint got no money in their PAY PAL ACCOUNTS.....LMAO! Do you'se people get this at all????

I mean....they would never freeze the account of an Ebay Powerseller with perfect feedback...cuz that wouldn't make sense, right?

And if they did....they would return his or her money...and apologize, right?

Not PayPal. They are actually pissed off when they are forced to give the money back....and will make you fill like trash.....even though they took your money...for no reason....and returned it 6 months later. True.

They'd give back the interest on it , right?

I mean if you steal someones money....and hold it for 6 months...only to return it.....wouldn't that be expected? Especially considering they earned interest on YOUR frozen funds.

Wouldn't that almost be required? LMAO!

Not PayPal. They don't give you a dime above what they take from you....even when they give it back after they've held it long enough to squeeze some interest points out of your money in the guise of saving mankind...even though no one ever had a complaint about you.

Nope. PayPal is so scary to so many of you....you thank THEM FOR FREEZING YOUR ACCOUNT.

Do you realize how many accounts end up frozen...and the funds held in FDIC insured banks? Do the math...add up the interest...and tell me what they do with the interest? Cuz they sure as hell don't give it back...and that's after they still take your fees...and screw you on foreign conversions.

Do what ever you want. Give PayPal your first born child for all I care....

As for me...Vince aint no whore.


xxx Vegas Vince
Legend.

[Nisip]

The whole truth about Paypal, and the website with much more than thousands of stories from Paypal users is:

Welcome to PayPalSucks.com, PayPal Lawsuit, PayPal Alternative, PayPal Complaints, Fraud & Evil behind the PayPal system!

[Dana_W]

Thanks, Vince, appreciate it!

Well, as I said, this coming week I definitely am going to invest in getting a merchant account so that at the very least, I can steer as many people as possible towards paying with Visa and Mastercard. I'd like to get away from Paypal completely but there are a couple of subscription services which pay me through paypal and I'd lose money if I quit paypal.

That's my ultimate goal, though!