Nobody wants your stupid membership site!!

[Brian McElroy]

Hey folks,

Is it just me... or does almost EVERYONE who tries
to put out a membership site fail miserably?

I have a new membership site that has done over
$100k the past couple months... it really ain't rocket
science.

What I think everyone gets wrong is...

They try to sell a stupid membership site!

And nobody wants it.

Most people set up a membership site, and write a
sales page for that membership site saying "my
membership site is so awesome, blah blah blah, you
should pay me $47 per month for the rest of life cuz
it rocks. And there's drip content. And a forum. Woot."

Trying to sell something like that is like banging
your head against a brick wall... you're not going to
get too far.

Here's what you should do if you want to funnel a
ton of people into a membership site (in any market):

1) Give away AMAZING FREE STUFF via a squeeze
page. No strings attached. (Follow up with non-buyers.)

2) Have AN OVERWHELMINGLY VALUABLE risk-free
trial (ding people for $1 and have them auto-bill after
14 or 30 days).

3) OVERDELIVER so people want to remain signed
up.

Here's the trick...

DON'T just sell the benefits of your membership
site with the $1 trial offer.

Give people something they ACTUALLY want, and
would pay much, much more to have.

Something like Yanik Silver's Maverick Business
Insider promotion, where he gave away a $15,000
"insider" presentation, along with a bunch of other
cool stuff, and a free trial of his continuity program.

This is simple stuff.

I'll be crying in my Cheerios if my membership site
isn't doing $100k per month by August... it's so
easy when you stop working hard on the wrong
things.

Get this part of membership site strategy down...
and you'll save yourself a LOT of headaches.

Cheers,
Brian

[Steven Fullman]

Awesome.

Why $1 rather than $free?

Does a $1 trialist make someone a proven buyer?

Are they overcoming a hurdle by spending at least a dollar?

Interested in your thoughts.

Steve

[Brian McElroy]

If you ding their credit card for a $1 trial, you can
automatically start charging them after the trial
period (i.e. forced continuity).

-B

[mikemcmillan]

Brian, it reminds me of all of the "free" offers you see on television where you get a 30 free supply of diet pills... whatever, you only have to pay the shipping. But in the agreement you consent to auto-rebilling at the end of the trial subscription. The have your credit card info so it's easy from their end. It must be the way to go because all of the big TV marketers do this. Thanks for the great tip!

[Sean A McAlister]

Words of wisdom.....

Let's rock it!

Highest Regards,
Sean

[quiescen]

Brian, as I mentioned in previous post, I've tried the $1 membership. Perhaps I wasn't doing it right but I get tired of all the looky loos bailing before being billed for the regular period.

And I offer very high quality one of a kind lessons.

Do you have any thoughts on this?

[Lisa Gergets]

I don't think the auto-billing is a problem as long as it's not in really really tiny print. When I don't know what's coming, and a charge makes me overdraft my account, I feel duped and will down-talk that product to anyone who'll listen.

Blazing Keywords scam, anyone?

[MarketingHuddle]

Brian,
Thoughts on the new "micro-continuity" concept of a fixed term membership and the "free+shipping"?

[Steven Fullman]

Originally Posted by Brian McElroy

If you ding their credit card for a $1 trial, you can
automatically start charging them after the trial
period (i.e. forced continuity).

-B

Thanks, Brian.

You can ding them for a totally free trial, though (with PayPal), and charge them automatically after X days.



Steve

[Jeremy Kelsall]

Brian you bring up some good points, but you leave some out too

First and foremost you need to have traffic, which is exactly what
most people are lacking. Not only don't they have it, but they don't
know how to get it.

The other thing that people don't have with their membership sites
is credibility.

I read all of these courses and watch all of these videos on making
tons of cash with membership sites, but in reality most of them if
not all of them leave those parts out.

It's easy to get a membership site hopping if you have a huge email
list or already have credibility in a certain niche, but the person that
has never done a membership site before that thinks they are going
to make a killing just by providing good content is going to be disappointed.

[Markus Nimocks]

Similar ideas here to the MicroContinuity concept - I'm just launching my first site and so far, so good!

[Ken Durham]

Great tips!
I hear one of the most profitable dating sites is free and only had a couple of days put into setting it up. I guess there is a lot to be said about giving away something everyone else charges for.

[Janet Sawyer]

Originally Posted by Steven Fullman

Thanks, Brian.

You can ding them for a totally free trial, though (with PayPal), and charge them automatically after X days.



Steve

But that's so totally wrong.

These people are grasping at straws. . . . they are down to their last dollar and you've sold them the promise this will work.

What you've failed to tell then is after YOU HAVE TAKEN THEIR LAST DOLLAR for their first months trial is that after that YOU ARE GOING TO SCEW THEM FOR SO MUCH MORE, MONTH IN AND MONTH OUT..........

Geez I hope YOU can sleep at nights.

[Steven Carl Kelly]

Originally Posted by Janet Sawyer

But that's so totally wrong.

These people are grasping at straws. . . . they are down to their last dollar and you've sold them the promise this will work.

What you've failed to tell then is after YOU HAVE TAKEN THEIR LAST DOLLAR for their first months trial is that after that YOU ARE GOING TO SCEW THEM FOR SO MUCH MORE, MONTH IN AND MONTH OUT..........

Geez I hope YOU can sleep at nights.

Gosh, I so completely disagree with this...

First, if you tell people in a very open and honest way up front about the recurring billing, then there's nothing at all wrong with it.

Two, not everyone who signs up for a $1 trial is grasping at straws.

Three, if you provide them excellent quality stuff for their $1, then they got the better end of the bargain.

Four, if you offer excellent quality stuff going forward, it is completely worth the monthly fee.

Fifth, if they want to cancel after receiving their free month they can, so what's the big deal.

Seems so straightforward and above board to me.

[Steven Fullman]

Originally Posted by Janet Sawyer

But that's so totally wrong.

These people are grasping at straws. . . . they are down to their last dollar and you've sold them the promise this will work.

What you've failed to tell then is after YOU HAVE TAKEN THEIR LAST DOLLAR for their first months trial is that after that YOU ARE GOING TO SCEW THEM FOR SO MUCH MORE, MONTH IN AND MONTH OUT..........

Geez I hope YOU can sleep at nights.

1. I never said 'last dollar'
2. You're BlueFarting me, aren't you

[quiescen]

I'm interested to know how you can "bypass" the freebie seekers in order to have a much higher retention rate. Anyone have any ideas about this?

Because I'd like to try the $1 offer again without having them bail after the trial period ends. Perhaps some relevant copy.

[Jason Moffatt]

Originally Posted by Janet Sawyer

But that's so totally wrong.

These people are grasping at straws. . . . they are down to their last dollar and you've sold them the promise this will work.

What you've failed to tell then is after YOU HAVE TAKEN THEIR LAST DOLLAR for their first months trial is that after that YOU ARE GOING TO SCEW THEM FOR SO MUCH MORE, MONTH IN AND MONTH OUT..........

Geez I hope YOU can sleep at nights.

This is such a crock.

Have you forgotten what type of forum this is? Who ever implied anyone should be screwing anyone? The point is to give away value beyond what people would pay for, not screwing them.

If they can't practice enough restraint from spending their last dollar it's not the vendors fault. I get so sick of people placing the blame on marketers instead of the irresponsible buyers.

[Steven Carl Kelly]

Originally Posted by quiescen

I'm interested to know how you can "bypass" the freebie seekers in order to have a much higher retention rate. Anyone have any ideas about this?

Because I'd like to try the $1 offer again without having them bail after the trial period ends. Perhaps some relevant copy.

By this month teasing next month's blockbuster stuff, and the month after's.

[Istvan Horvath]

Let's make it clear for Janet:
If it is clearly stated next to the Order for $1 for the first month that after that I will be billed $XX amount monthly - there is nothing wrong with it.
On the other hand, if this continuity is really a "forced" one, i.e. the the fact that I will be enrolled and billed for $XX every month is hidden somewhere in an obscure "disclaimer" file - that's wrong and crappy IM.
But nobody was talking about that, I guess

[JamesPenn]

Hi Brian

Great post. Congratulations on your projected 100k month in August.

Just a quick question...

Is your membership site an IM site or in another niche?

Thanks,
James

[Keith Kogane]

I'm currently trying to make a decent business plan that my lazy self can stick with re: a membership site. What I think I am settling on is doing a limited seat coaching program with a small group, and just record all the sessions and materials to use as the content on an eventual lower-priced drip-out membership site.

I like to set things up so I actually get paid to produce content, but I'm still noodling it out.

But I agree with the OP that it's much easier to "sell" the membership when people have bought and liked your stuff. Once they are mentally okay with the idea that giving you money makes them feel good, it's just a matter of making it easy and comfortable for them to do.

[Matt Gannon]

That's funny how Janet would say that when she has a review site on membership scripts, like everyone else says if its there in plain text its not wrong, thanks for the great tips, I am not making a membership site atm, but maybe someday in the future, so thank you for the helpful tips I will remember them!

[CDarklock]

Originally Posted by Steven Fullman

Are they overcoming a hurdle by spending at least a dollar?

In some jurisdictions, you don't have a legally enforceable contract until some form of tangible compensation changes hands.

[KatherineAnneCarr]

yep.. or sell a product that is related to the membership site.. and part of the sale of the report / ebook whatever is a free trial to the membership... then they will be billed after the trial as well..

[Steven Fullman]

Originally Posted by Janet Sawyer

But that's so totally wrong.

These people are grasping at straws. . . . they are down to their last dollar and you've sold them the promise this will work.

What you've failed to tell then is after YOU HAVE TAKEN THEIR LAST DOLLAR for their first months trial is that after that YOU ARE GOING TO SCEW THEM FOR SO MUCH MORE, MONTH IN AND MONTH OUT..........

Geez I hope YOU can sleep at nights.

How's it any different from any other shareware, trialware, careware, or any other product you GET TO TRY FOR FREE?

And, if you still like it at the end of the trial period...is it unethical to charge for it? Erm...no.

(if the charge is hidden in the small-print, and not blatant, THAT's bad. But I reckon most 'forced' continuity is only forced 'cos most people don't read the LARGE print, let alone the small)

Steve

[Karen Blundell]

Originally Posted by TinkerAndPo

I don't think the auto-billing is a problem as long as it's not in really really tiny print. When I don't know what's coming, and a charge makes me overdraft my account, I feel duped and will down-talk that product to anyone who'll listen.

Blazing Keywords scam, anyone?

yes! I totally agree. It happened to me with another similar scam. I signed up for a trial, and nowhere could I find that I would be billed automatically for $49.95 per month.

I was all over them and explained to my CC company what happened. I got my money back.

So trial memberships are fine as long as they know they will be billed later, and it is clear when they will be charged and how much.

[Steven Fullman]

Originally Posted by CDarklock

In some jurisdictions, you don't have a legally enforceable contract until some form of tangible compensation changes hands.

Interesting. How does that affect list builders who give stuff away?



Steve

[CDarklock]

Originally Posted by Janet Sawyer

But that's so totally wrong.

Let me see if I understand you.

A person signs up for my $1 trial month, and at the end of the month I bill him $47 for the next month.

You assume that this person only had $1 in the first place, makes no money at all over the course of the month, and now has some dire financial condition when I charge him the next $47.

Didn't he have to pay his mortgage and utilities during that month? Didn't he need groceries, gas, etc? It seems to me that if he's in dire straits over $47 a month after his trial, it's not my membership site that put him there, and having $47 more probably wouldn't help much anyway.

Indeed, since the sites we're discussing are generally IM-focused sites, he should have been able to earn $47 from SOMETHING he learned there over the month. If he didn't... why is that my fault?

[CDarklock]

Originally Posted by Steven Fullman

Interesting. How does that affect list builders who give stuff away?

Not at all. A list subscriber already isn't contractually obligated to the list owner.

[Steven Fullman]

Originally Posted by CDarklock

Not at all. A list subscriber already isn't contractually obligated to the list owner.

And therefore, nor is the person who takes out a free trial...?

[CDarklock]

Originally Posted by Steven Fullman

And therefore, nor is the person who takes out a free trial...?

The two situations are not related.

Subscriptions don't involve a contract because the subscriber doesn't have any duties to perform under the contract. Whether you provided consideration to become a subscriber is immaterial.

On a membership site, your members may have obligations. If you don't include consideration in the signup process, you may lose recourse to the law if they fail to meet them. If your members don't have obligations, or you simply don't care whether you can pursue legal action against them (who the hell would sue their members for failing to meet the TOS?), free trials probably don't have any legal downside.

[Brian McElroy]

True... although I use 1-click upsells, which you can't do
with PayPal. It's the same concept though, and works a
lot better than trying to sell a stupid membership site

-Brian

Originally Posted by Steven Fullman

Thanks, Brian.

You can ding them for a totally free trial, though (with PayPal), and charge them automatically after X days.



Steve

[Brian McElroy]

I hear you man... but there are EASY solutions.

I'm talking about a site outside of internet marketing,
with NO LIST, NO JVs, and NO TRAFFIC.

How do you get a lot of traffic?

Create an offer that converts, and pays affiliates a
high amount per visitor they send to your website.

Pay out more per visitor than your competitors...
and you'll never, ever have a problem getting traffic.

No credibility? I just partnered with a guy who has
credibility.

Problem solved...

The value I bring to the table (just like most Warriors)
is knowing how to generate traffic, turn it into leads,
convert them into sales, and upsell the bejeezus out
of 'em.

Not rocket science, right?

-Brian

Originally Posted by Jeremy Kelsall

Brian you bring up some good points, but you leave some out too

First and foremost you need to have traffic, which is exactly what
most people are lacking. Not only don't they have it, but they don't
know how to get it.

The other thing that people don't have with their membership sites
is credibility.

I read all of these courses and watch all of these videos on making
tons of cash with membership sites, but in reality most of them if
not all of them leave those parts out.

It's easy to get a membership site hopping if you have a huge email
list or already have credibility in a certain niche, but the person that
has never done a membership site before that thinks they are going
to make a killing just by providing good content is going to be disappointed.

[Jeremy Kelsall]

Brian

Originally Posted by Brian McElroy

Not rocket science, right?

-Brian

Not at all

We have a couple successful membership sites too, but it was tough getting going in the beginning. What you just put in that post is exactly what I struggled with in the beginning...AND THAT INFO WAS IN NONE OF THE PRODUCTS I BOUGHT.

[Slyknight]

I can see that u r an expert. I hope I can manage to succeed like you in the future.

[Brian McElroy]

That's a great point... I definitely didn't learn that stuff
from an info product.

I just talked to a guy doing $100k/m from a membership
site and modeled that (along with learning a lot of stuff
right here in this forum).

-Brian

[quiescen]

In the subscription business, they say you don't really have one unless 50% of your sign ups carry over to the next payment cycle. Do you have any stats or figures for the attrition and retention rates associated with the $1 offer?

The reason I ask is I tried it myself and found it to be less than successful. But you are inspiring me to give it another go. Especially during this "summer slump."

There seems to be a few things missing here...

First let me say Janet no need to go off on Steve for something that is not wrong... You misunderstood his post drastically. Not once did anyone ever say anything about scamming people or taking their last dollar. Trial memberships do work and nothing wrong with them when you are honest and up front..

For Example:

Join XXXXXXXXXXX.com today for
a trial period of 7 days for Only $2 After 7 days you will not pay
$27.97/Month but for a limited time you can permanently lock in
your membership for Only $9.97/Month. Get started now by
filling out the registration form below.

What is missing here is this though... Many talk about offering high quality products and value, Many talk about over-delivering, Many Talk about Traffic..

Those are all good things and things that you do need in order to make a site a success.. It is very important to offer high quality products and not some rehashed junk, you must give your members value and a reason to pay that money from day one. Over-delivering means offering related products to the main product and as explained above it should not be some rehashed junk.

Traffic also is important for any website, not just membership sites. That traffic is a great deal more effective if it is targeted traffic and not just a bunch of window shoppers...

The part nobody on this thread has mentioned is the FACT that you must offer a solution to solve the visitors problems.. You can have the highest quality product in the world with billions of window shoppers but if it does not solve their problem then your product and website means nothing at all.

As I have also posted in several other threads many seem to miss the FACT that you will look more professional if you have "Terms Of Service" "Privacy" "FAQ's" "Support Contact Form" "Disclaimers (if applicable)" ...

It was mentioned about that you have to be "Known" and I am sorry but this is not always the case. Sure if you are "known" and you have friends then you are going to do better. This is NOT a requirement to get a membership site going and make money though. You can very well succeed with a membership site by following the below...

* Offer high quality products
* Offer value to those members
* Over-Deliver to those members
* Market to targeted traffic as well as random traffic
* Offer a solution to solve the members problems
* Be professional and give terms, privacy, faq's, contact form
* Do not hype anything, be honest and upfront
* Offer quality support to your members
* Offer full faq's and help sections in the members area

These are just the basics but get those basics down and the rest will come with ease.. It requires work, you do not just slap up a site with a bunch of RR, MRR, PLR rehashed junk that has been given away on every single giveaway event known to man. If you are willing to take action and put work into it and build that site up every single day then the rewards will come... For some it may be 6 months down the road while others may be able to do it in 2 weeks..

Just my thoughts for what they are worth..

James

[kindsvater]

Originally Posted by CDarklock

In some jurisdictions, you don't have a legally enforceable contract until some form of tangible compensation changes hands.

I'm not aware of any jurisdiction with this rule.

[petevamp]

Very nicely put pal heres looking up to you

[Nilesh]

Brian,
you got full points.Lot to learn.

[SeanyG]

Awesome thread. Simple but spot on.

One question: How do you figure out the content you should have in your membership site?

[Joe118]

That one is easy -- the minute they paid something for it, they're more committed so less likely to leave, more likely to convert to continuity customers.

Originally Posted by Steven Fullman

Awesome.

Why $1 rather than ?

Does a $1 trialist make someone a proven buyer?

Are they overcoming a hurdle by spending at least a dollar?

Interested in your thoughts.

Steve

Originally Posted by SeanyG

Awesome thread. Simple but spot on.

One question: How do you figure out the content you should have in your membership site?

Well quick example ....

Let's say you create a digital report "How To Create A Reasonable Income In 6 Months - Using Your Blog"

*Side note* - You should have already done this yourself before writing a digital report on it.

The digital report would lay out step by step how "YOU" created yourself a decent income that at least covers your bills. It should explain what you did, how you did it, and etc.. No Fluff or Hype!!

Along with this in the members area you have Video and Text Transcripts both of each of those steps indepth details.. For example let's say your digital report says that you used YouTube in X way to help generate X traffic. Well the Video and Text Transcripts would go into more indepth detail explaining every single step and I mean explain it in newbie terms so it is easy to follow. If your digital report covered about 10 different steps then you would create these indepth videos and transcripts for all 10 steps.

Also in the members area you are going to offer resources, links to the actual websites you used.. Each resource should explain what it is and how you used it. If you used additional tools to drive traffic such as another membership site or software then list that in the members area also..

To help with any content that may be needed you are going to offer as a bonus 25 articles a month to each member -- But NOT plr junk, you are going to offer then unique fresh articles that are not for sale or giveaway noplace else. You will then explain what to do with these articles and how to get the most out of them.

You would have additional FAQ's and Help Sections in the members area. You would post additional results in the help section and other members success stories in the help section.

This is just a small example and it may not be the best example but I think you get the idea ... Offer a complete "Step By Step Hands Holding System"

James

[Mark Brian]

What happens if you run out of content to provide? Like if you totally made them a guru already, the won't buy from you anymore. Is there such an "end" to membership sites?

Likewise, is $xx/mo membership (offering deferred content) better than one time $xxx-$xxxx fee (offering the whole thing), like some big IM launches?

[charlesburke]

Interesting that a couple of people have had reservations (or more) about the forced continuity aspect of this offer.

Could it be that they're reacting to an event in their own purchasing past? I've had the same thing happen to me, too, and for a while I was rabidly against forced continuity deals. Twice in the past year I managed to unwittingly sign myself up to memberships where the unsubscribe info was tucked carefully away in a hard-to-find nook, back in the darkest corner, under a moss-covered rock. When I got myself out of the first one I swore to read all offers carefully in the future. Notwithstanding that, I got caught a second time recently, and I came away from that one poorer by almost $150 before it was over. But I also lost my knee-jerk aversion to the IDEA of forced continuity.

It took a while, but I've finally got it straight in my own head... when the deal is clearly disclosed and the unsubscribe link is easy to find, that's forced continuity.

On the other hand... when you would have to stand on your head and look under the sofa to find the terms --- and the unsubscribe link requires a special dispensation --- well, that's AMBUSH continuity. Totally different set of ethics.

Cheers from warm and smiling Thailand,
Charles

[CDarklock]

Originally Posted by kindsvater

I'm not aware of any jurisdiction with this rule.

Meincke v. Northwest Bank & Trust Co. and Scramm Enterprises, L.C., No. 7-829/06-1541, 2007 Iowa App. LEXIS 1330 (Iowa Ct. App. Dec. 28, 2007).

The district court initially ruled the contract in question to be valid. On appeal, the appellate court found that the contract in question was void for lack of consideration. Further review in the Iowa Supreme Court reversed this decision and affirmed the district court ruling.

While this particular contract was ultimately found valid, the appellate ruling is the central point: a contract may be found void for lack of consideration in some jurisdictions.

Originally Posted by Mark Brian

What happens if you run out of content to provide? Like if you totally made them a guru already, the won't buy from you anymore. Is there such an "end" to membership sites?

Then you have a loyal base of customers that would be more than glad to buy any other products or other memberships you put before them... There will also always be new members that join..

Originally Posted by Mark Brian

Likewise, is /mo membership (offering deferred content) better than one time - fee (offering the whole thing), like some big IM launches?

This depends upon your business model and how you want to do things.. The thing about membership sites, they are designed to create you a recurring income..

James

[CmdrStidd]

Great thread everyone. I do have a question, however, for my own mind and situation.

I am getting ready to release some software that I developed. I am releasing it in 2 forms, free and paid where the paid may have a little more functionality and definitely wont have any ads which the free version will. I want to offer a membership site on the back end and was thinking of making the first month free with the purchased software.

The membership site would give access to tech support for the software, training videos, free upgrades, and a user forum where users could share experiences or suggestions.

The free users would have to pay the regular monthly fee from the start rather than getting the one month free, but they would have all the above features just like the purchased software users have.

Is this viable and if so, can you recommend a site that currently is doing this as a model for me to look at or gauge from?

Thanks in advance for all your great help.

[globalpro]

CmdrStidd,

Here's one that is doing what you are talking about, with a free/paid set up. It's a web based application related to Twitter. Not sure exactly how it works, as I don't use Twitter.

The model is the same and doing well. I set the membership site up.

Tweet Riches - The most viral Twitter service on the planet!

Thanks,

John