What payment processors are ok with MLM?

Banned 10 years ago

Originally Posted by Mikej413

I just read somewhere that paypal does not allow mlm(multi level marketing).

Yes - that's even an understatement. They don't allow anything that they think is MLM (and they think a lot of things are MLM that other people don't think are MLM at all!).

The one that used to process all the payments for the online MLM/pyramid schemes/HYIP scams was called "Alertpay" and that's now known as "Payza". How good/reliable they are now, since being taken over by Payza, I have no idea.

I suspect it's not going to be easy. The whole thing's a bit of a legal minefield. If you're setting up anything that might be MLM or might look like MLM, you might want to make very sure you have up-to-date legal advice from a lawyer who specializes in that before you start, because otherwise "payment processing" may rapidly turn out to be the least of your problems.

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Mikej413

10 years ago

Well pretty much everything I see online for marketing is MLM. I'm not interested in walking on eggshells here. I just want to find something I can use without worrying about having my account closed which is something I have heard of happening. The thing is don't most internet marketers use paypal? So I don't get it. I currently have paypal set up with globaladshare which I am still new at and haven't upgraded. I suppose they are MLM(or at least would probably be considered that by paypal) but they have paypal as one of the options. I'm thinking I might use solid trust pay for my internet marketing although I haven't yet signed up with them. Or maybe I'll just have to sign up only with companies that send checks.

Thanks
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Alexa Smith Banned 10 years ago

Originally Posted by Mikej413

Well pretty much everything I see online for marketing is MLM.

You and I must be using different worldwide webs, I think.

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- Mikej413 10 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Alexa Smith
  
  You and I must be using different worldwide webs, I think.
  
  .
  
  Either that or you don't spend much time on facebook.
  
  Thanks
  
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  Alexa Smith Banned 10 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Mikej413
  
  Either that or you don't spend much time on facebook.
  
  Ah, I see ... yes, that's absolutely right!
  
  Thanks
  
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LimitlessTraffic 10 years ago

Originally Posted by Mikej413

Well pretty much everything I see online for marketing is MLM.

Please define MLM.. I got a feeling this whole topic is all wrong!
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- Mikej413 10 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by LimitlessTraffic
  
  Please define MLM.. I got a feeling this whole topic is all wrong!
  
  I'm a newbie just like many of you guys are so I can't really define MLM at least not as good as some of you might. As far as I know, however, it basically means you get part of the sales of those under you(those you recruit). Lots of things seem to fall under the MLM umbrella though and it seems that most every company that isn't direct sales could be considered some kind of MLM. To some MLM is a dirty word in marketing but to others it leverages the playing field and makes it easier to make sustainable income online(some might say especially online).
  
  Thanks
  
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ErinWalsh

10 years ago

Have you looked into Square Up?

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Mikej413

10 years ago

Nope. Never heard of it.

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Tsnyder

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Mikej413

I just read somewhere that paypal does not allow mlm(multi level marketing). Since so many business opportunities online are mlm I would like to know which payment processors(ones that are legit anyway)do allow it and I can use with these companies. Thanks.

I read through the thread and I'm not sure what you're after.

Are you trying to start your own MLM and you need a
payment processor? If you're just joining an MLM company
they should have their own... if they don't, stay the heck away
from them.

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Mikej413

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Tsnyder

I read through the thread and I'm not sure what you're after.

Are you trying to start your own MLM and you need a
payment processor? If you're just joining an MLM company
they should have their own... if they don't, stay the heck away
from them.

No. I'm not trying to start my own. Earlier today I saw a business opportunity that warned people considering joining not to use paypal because paypal does not accept MLM businesses. So it got me wondering what pay processors do. Usually there is an option for which processor to use. Paypal often isn't an option and if it's so anti MLM then it should never be an option for those companies who might be considered MLM.

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Alexa Smith Banned 10 years ago

Originally Posted by Mikej413

No. I'm not trying to start my own.

Ok, sorry - like Tsnyder, I think, I misunderstood you a bit.

If you're not, then you don't have the problem, anyway: any MLM you join will already have an established way of paying its distributors.

If you're concerned that their payment-method is PayPal and that they might be breaching PayPal's terms of service, and that they might get caught out, and that their distributors might lose their own PayPal accounts "for having been paid by them", then the solution is simple: check with PayPal first, before receiving a payment from them. If they say it's ok, then it's ok.

There have indeed been instances of this happening, in the past, but the businesses concerned were not really MLM companies at all: they were illegal online pyramid scams which paid people "for recruiting/sponsoring" (obviously illegal).

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Mark Hess

10 years ago

Try contacting Paxum: https://www.paxum.com. At one time I had approval to start a reverse 2-up compensation plan with them. You're going to have to speak with someone and get special permission in writing. They do a lot of processing in the adult space.

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Mikej413

10 years ago

That by itself is not illegal but it depends on how it's done. As far as I know for it to be legal there has to be a service or product involved. A pyramid or Ponzi scheme has no product or service.

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Alexa Smith Banned 10 years ago

Originally Posted by Mikej413

That by itself is not illegal

It is in North America, the whole of Europe, many Pacific Rim countries, and many other countries where MLM is legal and regulated.

Paying for recruitment/sponsorship is probably the "top illegality" that regulators and courts will pounce on. If you sponsor someone into an MLM company, you're allowed to earn a commssion on any "stock"/"products" they buy (up to a certain maximum price, which varies from country to country) in the course of signing up, but not a payment for sponsoring them. Under some circumstances, in some countries, you're allowed to earn a fee for training them (again, subject to many and varying limitations and exclusions), but not a payment for sponsoring them.

Respectfully, Mike, you make some "legal statements" on this subject which are simply incorrect.

Originally Posted by Mikej413

As far as I know for it to be legal there has to be a service or product involved. A pyramid or Ponzi scheme has no product or service.

Yes, a lot of people mistakenly imagine that the difference between an illegal pyramid and a lawful MLM is that one has no products and the other has. It seems that you're one of them. This is wrong.

There are many illegal pyramids that have perfectly genuine products. Courts still regularly close them down, regardless of their products and how good/genuine they are, if they're breaking the law.

All of this is just not nearly as simple as you're making out, Mike. It seems that you've been misinformed, but have chosen to believe a lot of the "industry myths" without ever checking them out or taking any legal advice.

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dreamzgold

10 years ago

I think paypal will not accept MLM model business. For MLM business most of them prefer Payza.

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jaunsamsel

10 years ago

Now I have also join mlm, and I think for payment paypal is the best, and cash/check process is also best, suddenly I win one contest in social networking website of mlm diary and got gifts from them.

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Joe Lumbergh

10 years ago

All of this is just not nearly as simple as you're making out, Mike. It seems that you've been misinformed, but have chosen to believe a lot of the "industry myths" without ever checking them out or taking any legal advice.

You are always so informed about everything alexa

(no sarcasm)

Would you mind elaborating on what exactly is considered an illegal MLM or what makes an MLM legal or tell us where to find legal advice on the subject?

thanks

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WillR

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Joe Lumbergh

You are always so informed about everything alexa

(no sarcasm)

Would you mind elaborating on what exactly is considered an illegal MLM or what makes an MLM legal or tell us where to find legal advice on the subject?

thanks

A big part of it is when the company and the people in the company are making majority of the money from recruiting new people to join, and not from the sale of real products and/or services.

A company needs to show that the products and/or services can stand on their own two feet -- ie: people would still buy those products and/or services even if there was no business opportunity involved. Otherwise those products and/or services are just being used to disguise a MLM system. That's one of the biggest tests.

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Alexa Smith

Banned 10 years ago

Hi Joe,

Originally Posted by Joe Lumbergh

You are always so informed about everything alexa

(no sarcasm)

Would you mind elaborating on what exactly is considered an illegal MLM or what makes an MLM legal or tell us where to find legal advice on the subject?

(I know a little bit about MLM because I was involved in it, myself, for nearly a year - long ago - and back then I had a lawyer who was very familiar with MLM.)

You need to get advice only from a lawyer with MLM-law experience, in your own jurisdiction, Joe. It's terribly high-risk getting anything that might pass for "legal advice" anywhere else, on this subject even more than on most, because there are so many widespread misunderstandings and so much misguided advice in circulation.

There are countless people who believe that "as long as the company has genuine products", it's necessarily legal (untrue). There are huge numbers of people who imagine that it's ok, within an MLM framework, to be financially rewarded for recruiting/sponsoring people (completely wrong). There are even people actively promoting MLM's who imagine that "MLM" and "network marketing" are two alternative expressions for exactly the same thing (they're not, at all), and all sorts of myths like this. It's essential to get legal advice from those qualified and licensed to give it.

.

Thanks
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Joe Lumbergh 10 years ago

Hi alexa.
oh well.. I dont want to hire a lawyer but thanks anyways!

Most important part is, paypal won't accept payments from my costumers even if my MLM is legal, can someone confirm that?
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- Alexa Smith Banned 10 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Joe Lumbergh
  
  Most important part is, paypal won't accept payments from my costumers even if my MLM is legal, can someone confirm that?
  
  Well, ultimately I suppose only PayPal can confirm that with certainty.
  
  But the last time I looked at their terms of service, they definitely specifically excluded "MLM" (and not just illegal ones!).
  
  For what it's worth, they also have a longstanding reputation for "determining" that some things "are MLM" which most people - including participants - really haven't thought are MLM at all. Even after processing some payments for them.
  
  So my guess would be very much that trying to use PayPal even for a legal MLM might turn out to be unwise. Again, that's a guess.
  
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Joe Lumbergh

10 years ago

thanks, alexa.

EDIT: Nevermind I found it lol:

You may not use the PayPal service for activities that: (...) relate to transactions that (...) (b) support pyramid or ponzi schemes, matrix programs, other “get rich quick” schemes or certain multi-level marketing programs, (...)

https://www.paypal.com/ch/webapps/mp...ptableuse-full

They say "certain" mlms... would be nice to know how exactly they distinguish. Well, w/e.

old post:
I googled Paypal+mlm and found old posts quoting the TOS of paypay stating that MLM is not allowed.

However if I search the TOS of paypal for "level" "multi" and "mlm", I don't find any passage saying anything about MLMs. Maybe they removed the clause and it's now allowed? Or am I to stupid to find it?

Anybody got some insight or experience?

Thanks
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Alexa Smith Banned 10 years ago

Originally Posted by Joe Lumbergh

They say "certain" mlms... would be nice to know how exactly they distinguish.

I strongly suspect that the answer there, as is so often the case with PayPal, may be "inconsistently". And/or "in accordance with their internal, undisclosed, subjective, risk-assessment factors re people's accounts".

For what it's worth (if anything) PayPal's terms of service do actually vary - sometimes quite significantly - from country to country, too.

I'm not helping you much, here, and have no "inside information" that you don't have, but - again - for myself, I wouldn't dream of trying to use PayPal for anything even debatably MLM-related. Sorry, I know it's not what you want to hear.

Originally Posted by jaunsamsel

Now I have also join mlm, and I think for payment paypal is the best

I swear I'm living on a different planet from some of the people posting in this thread.
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Joe Lumbergh

10 years ago

I'm not helping you much, here, and have no "inside information" that you don't have, but - again - for myself, I wouldn't dream of trying to use PayPal for anything even debatably MLM-related. Sorry, I know it's not what you want to hear.

You've helped enough. I already made up my mind and definetly wont use paypal for that project, if we finish it.

I swear I'm living on a different planet from some of the people posting in this thread.

+1

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Tenwalde

9 years ago

Hi, I am wondering... did you ever find a MLM processor? Thanks

Thanks
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cow1981 8 years ago

Pay Pal will freeze your account and keep your funds you get zilch na nothing just when you up and running along come the USA UK Law and shut you down even payzar has been and had accounts frozen so tread carefully with who you open an account with there are a few who make it hard for charge backs and help MLM accounts forget Pay Pal there not the be all end all and they run at a loss have been for years and may freeze accounts and take the money for there own bottom line as I've read elsewhere on Google search if you stay under the $500 mark and give good service and products and limit the size of your matrix like do a strait line in two like 16 and 32 total 48 so they cycle fast and keep all happy don't be greedy and have a good product for them to use like a five hundred dollar TV or LAPTOP THATS NEW AND HAS A FULL warranty
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What payment processors are ok with MLM?

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