The Mentoring "Issue"

[Adrian Cooper]

Originally Posted by Kay King

I was just reading a thread that is a good example of the "mindset" issue.

A few months ago a member laid out in detail in a FREE WF thread the method he was using. Recently he came back to report most recent results (which were great) and gave details on refinements he had made to the method he's using. In both threads he answered every question asked - in detail.

But several people are not taking this valuable advice and using it - they are asking him to "do a WSO and I'll buy it". THAT's the mentality you often run into when trying to help someone totally new. No amount of advice is ever enough...

kay

Exactly - and people with that mentality will always fail.

I have noticed over the years that 99% of people are looking for that magic bullet, holy grail etc that they can buy and make millions in IM.

To put it bluntly - these people are just fodder for the big IM'ers.

During the gold rush, it was rarely the speculators that made money, it was the shrewd people selling the picks, shovels and pans.

At the time of the tech stock crash 9 years ago, everyone was following the "analysts" who were saying "buy, buy, buy," while the "analysts" purchased the stock first and then as soon as they recommended it they went "sell, sell, sell".

IM is no different.

Mindset, and all it involves, is crucial to success.

Anyone who does not believe or accept that, or thinks they will eventually find a product to buy which will magically make them millions, had better not give up the day job. IM is not for you.

I know many of the top IM'ers, some well, and they all know this to be true.

Allen knows it to be true I am sure.

Mentoring is just another way of avoiding using your own Mind plain and simple.

You cannot buy success.

Mind is Principle, and nothing can be achieved without using it - not in IM, not in sport, not in Life.

[Alan Petersen]

I can't think of any other business but the online business where people expect to get up and running and making money without making an investment.

There are other things you do. I've seen a lot successful IM'ers offer un-paid internships. If you see a mentoring program you like that costs $X go out work to save that money. Even if it's working a couple crappy hourly jobs to get the money you need. That's a better plan than sitting around waiting for a free mentor to come and rescue you. I'm going to dig ditches for 3 months to raise the $1,000 I need to join this mentoring program. Vs. posting for free mentor on a forum and sitting back and waiting.

Originally Posted by kadensnga

You must come from the world which has forgotten that "some people really don't actually have money".

Doesn't mean they don't have potential.

[Charles Washington]

Originally Posted by Kay King

I was just reading a thread that is a good example of the "mindset" issue.

A few months ago a member laid out in detail in a FREE WF thread the method he was using. Recently he came back to report most recent results (which were great) and gave details on refinements he had made to the method he's using. In both threads he answered every question asked - in detail.

But several people are not taking this valuable advice and using it - they are asking him to "do a WSO and I'll buy it". THAT's the mentality you often run into when trying to help someone totally new. No amount of advice is ever enough...

kay

What thread was that, Kay?

[John Durham]

Originally Posted by Alan Petersen

I can't think of any other business but the online business where people expect to get up and running and making money without making an investment...

I cant stand MLM personally, but when someone signs you up for an MLM opportunity they are the exact thing as a "Free Mentor".

1: If you go to apply for a sales job at Merrill Lynch with the hopes of becoming a "Investment Banker" then your sales manager is what? (a free mentor, in fact; he might even PAY you).

2: If you go to real estate school and come out and you have a sales trainer then you have what "A free mentor"

3: If you want to learn how to get construction contracts and you take a job at a construction company to learn the ropes of selling "construction" what is that company to you? A "free" mentor.

4: If you go to a car lot for sales job they will pay YOU $500 a week for the opportunity to teach you how to sell cars... again "free mentor".



Free mentoring is only foreign, or unbelievable to people who don't understand "Business".

Originally Posted by apc01

I have noticed over the years that 99% of people are looking for that magic bullet, holy grail etc that they can buy and make millions in IM.

To put it bluntly - these people are just fodder for the big IM'ers.

As apoc01 say's here; 'students' to many people are no more than "fodder" to make money off of.

Some teachers would rather make money off the teaching itself, than making money off the successful people created through their mentoring. It's because of this basic belief "People just don't have what it takes to succeed".

Hello?

To me; learning that 'everyone doesn't succeed' is an "elementary" part of becoming a person who helps ALOT of people to succeed.

No everyone doesn't succeed that you mentor, but "smart" mentors like the guy at the head of the "real estate" class... realize that if 10 fall off and only two actually sell a house in the next 8 weeks then he has made HUGE progress in his mentoring endeavor. He has also helped a needle find it's way out of the haystack.

It's not brain surgery; "mentoring" (the rest of us call it "training") has been going on for thousands of years...

You take a group of people and train them to do something, some fail, some succeed.

That's real everyday life.

You take the ones that succeed and they produce fruit...you forget the ones who didnt, then you start the process over and steadily build a concentrated army of successful people.

7 out of ten telemarketers I've trained failed, but I still developed a room of 100 killer telemarketers somehow, by stepping up to the plate everyday and "mentoring" both the successes and the failures alike.

I find this all very motivating.

[slvrsrfr]

very true kadensnga,

unfortunately i think a lot of folks get cynical, but i think that is because they take the failures of those they mentored too personally.

but altruism is alive and well. and i believe you are one of the fine examples.

jason

[Kay King]

Charles -

It was this one:

6 Months Later: $300 Daily w/Adsense (Lessons Learned)

[nostih]

Aside from my static website, IM is very new to me. I want to focus on affiliate marketing. I will say since I've been here, no one has come across to me like that(the bold remarks below) nor have I witnessed this.

I look at being new to a " online community" like I do when I go out to networking events to meet new prospects or referral partners.

Not at one event have I ever been given a referral on my first visit to one of the monthy events/association meetings that I attended.

It usualy takes a while. People want to get to know you, get to like you and trust you. They want to see how reliable you are and how serious you are about their and your business.

They want to see you get involved with the community and add value not just come "and get something".

I know this every time I get asked to join a offline association. I expect to "pay my dues" before I am truley acknowledged as a member of the club. You may not like that but that's the way things are.

That's the only way people send me referrals for my business. They've spent A LOT of time "watching me" without me even knowing it.

Ultra successful people know YOU MUST develop long term relationships to be MEGA successful. It's that simple.

My advice is to stick around and offer whatever you can offer. Nothing is too small or unimportant.

If you start a thread and get some response, by all means say thank you, even if that's not the answer you wanted.

Would I like guidence from one of the more successful Warriors, absolutely!

But I know I need to "prove" yes prove, that I am worthy of their time. Because the reality of it is, I'll benefit from them more than they will from me just based on them having more experience and more success than I.

I do not mind proving that I am worthy of being mentored. That's how little known folks become WELL KNOWN folks.

How do I do that? Stick around and add value to the forums. Bring a good positive attitude and be ready to work like hell!


Ron

Originally Posted by Alphy3000

I've seen a couple of posts where people were in search for an mentor. I've been searching those posts because i was in search for a mentor too. I noticed though, there not many mentors who immediately jumped and gladly offered their services to these ''newbies in search for guidance''.

Correct me if i'm wrong.. but there is an ongoing ''Oh, youre a newbie? you just have to figure it out on yourself and give blood if you're just starting out '' Mentality.

I think this has NOT have to be the case.

I think not only newbies but EVERYONE would EXTREMELY benefit if they had just someone who could give them quick guidelines, quick personal advice to their specific situation, quick thoughts and tips to help them get to the next step. Every great leader had a mentor. They say it could take up 6 - 9 months (or even more) if youre a newbie and trying to make your first money online in this IM world. I think we could dramatically decrease this time if we could offer each other some form of personal advice, guidelines etc.

That brings me to a very important question. Wich i ask not only out of personal reasons but to help the others here in the forum because i noticed there was a very strong need for this.

What does one needs to do to make a ''Skilled'' Warrior (lets say someone who earns more than 10,000 a month or more) to be a Mentor? (and i'm not talking about fulltime personal coaching over the telephone because everyone has projects theyre working on, everyone is busy etc. No.. i'm talking about just some quick advice/guidelines to their specific situation.. a personal mentor they could go to).

And of course, i know, there is not much value to the mentor to teach some newbie how to ''get'' money. But let the newbie then use his or her creative brain and figure out a way how they could provide you enough value for you. (for example, lets say the newbie has a specific skills you could use in you business, or let them gather 50 testimonials for you or something)

I think this would benefit everyone.

[Adrian Cooper]

Originally Posted by Michael Mayo

Here are a few facts to why I quit giving away free Mentoring/Coaching.

It the past I offered here on this forum 5 Free Coaching spots to the first
5 people that posted in the thread that they were interested in my offer.

All 5 were set up at my site with their own Private Message Board where they could contact me at nearly any time with questions.

The very first week only 2 of the 5 even bothered to log-in to the private
site and out of the 2 that did only 1 still remains a member.

The one that is still a member logs in about once a week to read the forum but no longer asks questions. Good or Bad? I think Good because we set this person up a model that he can do and if he needs me, he knows where to find me.

Out of the first 25 paying members that joined only 2 of them still remain
and the other 23 would make excuses to why they hadn't logged in for a
couple of weeks and then vanish still paying their monthly membership fee.

After one month of not logging into the private area and not giving me a
reason why, I canceled their membership and re-opened the training
positions.

Now I have 16 members and only 9 positions remaining open.

Here recently I offered 3 months of free coaching to a young lady that had posted here in the main forum that she really needed a coach/mentor.

She never replied back to my offer???

See, it's frustrating to try and Help someone that won't even try to help
themselves.

Now, I am very selective of whom I will even offer my services to when it
comes to coaching because I don't have time to waste on someones
false dreams.

Result:
Now if someone signs up for coaching and Pays their first months
membership fee it doesn't mean they will be accepted int my coaching
program. What?... If I don't accept someone into coaching then I return
them their money at that time.

This is a case were the sum of the many have ruined it for the remaining
few that would actually take action.

Nuf rambling, Hope you got my points.

Have a Great Day!
Michael

PS. If you were to look in the WSO forum right now you wold see that John Taylor and
Andy Henry are offering free Affiliate Training via the "Affiliate Marketing bootcamp" in their
WSO. Here is the link to the WSO: [FREE WSO] A Call To Arms...

The fact is, not everyone is suited to IM.

The bricks and mortar world is so very tough that it enforces discipline and commitment or fail - simple as that.

Since the Internet people have been led to believe that IM is easy and a sure fire way to making millions. This is a false perception accentuated by the gazillions of products out there promising unlimited income etc.

To succeed in IM requires a business approach, total commitment and a success Mindset.

Success Mindset is most crucial of all, because it is the basis upon which all else stands.

As it stands today, everyone has the potential to succeed but only maybe 5% at most have the Mind to succeed.

This is why when I personally teach people how to succeed in IM I address the Mind first and then the application. No one I have ever taught has failed.

I should mention though that teaching and mentoring is not what I usually do. Those I have taught in the past have been either known to me or arrived through people known to me.

[Barry Walls]

Originally Posted by kadensnga

I cant stand MLM personally, but when someone signs you up for an MLM opportunity they are the exact thing as a "Free Mentor".

1: If you go to apply for a sales job at Merrill Lynch with the hopes of becoming a "Investment Banker" then your sales manager is what? (a free mentor, in fact; he might even PAY you).

2: If you go to real estate school and come out and you have a sales trainer then you have what "A free mentor"

3: If you want to learn how to get construction contracts and you take a job at a construction company to learn the ropes of selling "construction" what is that company to you? A "free" mentor.

4: If you go to a car lot for sales job they will pay YOU $500 a week for the opportunity to teach you how to sell cars... again "free mentor".

None of these are free...well, apart from the fact that you don't see the money physically leaving your pocket. Each manager in each example has an over rider on a sales persons income in almost all cases.

In some cases, its as high as 95% when everything is accounted for.

All the best

Barry

[John Durham]

Originally Posted by Barry Walls

None of these are free...well, apart from the fact that you don't see the money physically leaving your pocket. Each manager in each example has an over rider on a sales persons income in almost all cases.

In some cases, its as high as 95% when everything is accounted for.

All the best

Barry

Wow. Good argument. You're right, since the money is actually going "into" your pocket instead something must be dreadfully wrong about my above statement. Oh yeah, it was the part about someone making a commission off the trainee's earnings, instead of charging them regardless of whether or not they get results. That was the part that didn't make sense. I got it now.

[Craig Desorcy]

I've been mentoring people now for a few years.

Many of the people that came to me from the IM niche are
get rich quick junkies who have no money and bought into
the big lie "This is as easy as clicking a mouse".

90% of them are not willing to study and take action.

I refuse to help anyone for free anymore.

since I started charging I attract good students for the
most part that are not coming to the internet to get
rich quick.

I noticed about people asking for mentors here is
they want it for free. If you are one of those people
please read the following very carefully

"You Do Not Want It If It's Free!"

What???

Something really bad starts to happen in your subconscious mind
after getting something for free and it does not serve your greater
good. I'm not willing to go into great detail about this here but trust me
free is not free by any means.

Pay for everything and don't look for a handout or someone to come
along and show you the ropes... This isn't the boy scouts or church.
Most of use that have sites and earning money paid a very high
price for the knowledge and you'll have your own price to pay if this
is truly what you want for your life.


Craig

[John Durham]

"As a person who wants to charge you for training I suggest you don't ever get any for free... because it's not good."

I'm outta here.

[Craig Desorcy]

Originally Posted by kadensnga

"As a person who wants to charge you for training I suggest you don't ever get any for free... because it's not good."

I'm outta here.

Not true for a trainer trying to establish himself, get testimonials and
possibly up sell the client after creating and demonstrating massive value.

Now if the trainer offers it for free and you decide to take it,
after it's done put a dollar value on it and pay the person.

Craig

[Steven W Johnson]

I like to refer to mentoring as "dot connecting" - I maintain that almost EVERYONE can be successful online, if only for THOSE LAST FEW DOTS. And, WOW are they ever elusive for most people. They are MASTERS of 94, 95, even 97 of the 100 dots they need to be successful. It's those last 2 or 3 or 5 that are all the difference between struggling to make barely enough to keep the Internet service and domains and hosting paid for, and being able to tell their employer to shove it. Identifying the missing dots, building a plan of action to add those into someone's arsenal of online moneymaking weaponry - that is what good mentoring is all about.

[willkho]

Well, everything in the marketing world is based on the perception of the product, the impression of the sales letter and also the psychological impact of the entire package from sales letter, testimonials, graphics, to price and safter sales service. Selling a mentoring service is no difference. There are too much BS on the internet that prompt every newbie to question if the offer and promises are real.

Thus one cannot just jump to conclusion that many are reluctant to follow the steps taught and continue to pay for lessons that are rather lenghthy that hard to see results.

Willkho

[thomashoi]

Originally Posted by Alphy3000

I've seen a couple of posts where people were in search for an mentor. I've been searching those posts because i was in search for a mentor too. I noticed though, there not many mentors who immediately jumped and gladly offered their services to these ''newbies in search for guidance''.

Correct me if i'm wrong.. but there is an ongoing ''Oh, youre a newbie? you just have to figure it out on yourself and give blood if you're just starting out '' Mentality.

I think this has NOT have to be the case.

I think not only newbies but EVERYONE would EXTREMELY benefit if they had just someone who could give them quick guidelines, quick personal advice to their specific situation, quick thoughts and tips to help them get to the next step. Every great leader had a mentor. They say it could take up 6 - 9 months (or even more) if youre a newbie and trying to make your first money online in this IM world. I think we could dramatically decrease this time if we could offer each other some form of personal advice, guidelines etc.

That brings me to a very important question. Wich i ask not only out of personal reasons but to help the others here in the forum because i noticed there was a very strong need for this.

What does one needs to do to make a ''Skilled'' Warrior (lets say someone who earns more than 10,000 a month or more) to be a Mentor? (and i'm not talking about fulltime personal coaching over the telephone because everyone has projects theyre working on, everyone is busy etc. No.. i'm talking about just some quick advice/guidelines to their specific situation.. a personal mentor they could go to).

And of course, i know, there is not much value to the mentor to teach some newbie how to ''get'' money. But let the newbie then use his or her creative brain and figure out a way how they could provide you enough value for you. (for example, lets say the newbie has a specific skills you could use in you business, or let them gather 50 testimonials for you or something)

I think this would benefit everyone.

I fully agree with you that newbies need a mentor to guide them on
making their first sale online.

However, i feel that you need not make $10,000 monthly
to be qualified as a mentor. In fact, if you can make a clickbank sale online
by yourself, you can become a mentor.

Afterall, this is real money which you make outside of your
9-5 job or that pathetic paycheck! It's only a matter of
refining and testing to make the next $100, $1000 a day
income.

Now, I want you to realize that Internet marketing is REAL
and tons of people have already made full time income online.

As a newbie, you either spend a lot of time figuring your way
out or invest some money and make learning faster and
more enjoyable.

Many people have no complains about spending at least 10 years of formal education
and tens of thousands of dollars to earn a degree which
cannot guarantee a lifetime income, but they expect to spend only
a little time and/or little money to make millions in a few months!!

[Ben_Curtis]

Originally Posted by igorhelpsyousucceed

There is mentoring going on in every single post here.

since it is a forum, the community is the mentor.
When a newbie comes asking for help, there are plenty
of people who show up with great inputs and insights.

However, it is up to the newbie to get the mentor and not the
other way around.

Igor

Wow! That is terrific! The community is the mentor....but too many people want a short cut, they want others to do the work, they want the rewards without the struggle, without the study! This endeavor is like any worthwhile undertaking; it requires hard work, persistence and courage. The knowledge is here; the gold is in the ground; get your shovel and start digging!

[John Durham]

Originally Posted by willkho

Well, everything in the marketing world is based on the perception of the product, the impression of the sales letter and also the psychological impact of the entire package from sales letter, testimonials, graphics, to price and safter sales service. Selling a mentoring service is no difference. There are too much BS on the internet that prompt every newbie to question if the offer and promises are real.

Thus one cannot just jump to conclusion that many are reluctant to follow the steps taught and continue to pay for lessons that are rather lenghthy that hard to see results.

Willkho

Instead of charging people why not create an opportunity and train them to be successful with it, then you make money off of your results oriented training and the opportunity you created to help people succeed?

In my experience anybody that has what it takes (the raw willpower) to succeed, doesn't need to spend 5k on training to find their way around... they will make it happen either way.

Anybody with that kind of will power, can make you alot more than 5k if you create a good opportunity for them to participate in.