The Mentoring "Issue"

[Alphy3000]

I've seen a couple of posts where people were in search for an mentor. I've been searching those posts because i was in search for a mentor too. I noticed though, there not many mentors who immediately jumped and gladly offered their services to these ''newbies in search for guidance''.

Correct me if i'm wrong.. but there is an ongoing ''Oh, youre a newbie? you just have to figure it out on yourself and give blood if you're just starting out '' Mentality.

I think this has NOT have to be the case.

I think not only newbies but EVERYONE would EXTREMELY benefit if they had just someone who could give them quick guidelines, quick personal advice to their specific situation, quick thoughts and tips to help them get to the next step. Every great leader had a mentor. They say it could take up 6 - 9 months (or even more) if youre a newbie and trying to make your first money online in this IM world. I think we could dramatically decrease this time if we could offer each other some form of personal advice, guidelines etc.

That brings me to a very important question. Wich i ask not only out of personal reasons but to help the others here in the forum because i noticed there was a very strong need for this.

What does one needs to do to make a ''Skilled'' Warrior (lets say someone who earns more than 10,000 a month or more) to be a Mentor? (and i'm not talking about fulltime personal coaching over the telephone because everyone has projects theyre working on, everyone is busy etc. No.. i'm talking about just some quick advice/guidelines to their specific situation.. a personal mentor they could go to).

And of course, i know, there is not much value to the mentor to teach some newbie how to ''get'' money. But let the newbie then use his or her creative brain and figure out a way how they could provide you enough value for you. (for example, lets say the newbie has a specific skills you could use in you business, or let them gather 50 testimonials for you or something)

I think this would benefit everyone.

[R Hagel]

Hi Alphy3000,

Correct me if i'm wrong.. but there is an ongoing ''Oh, youre a newbie? you just have to figure it out on yourself and give blood if you're just starting out '' Mentality.

I don't think the senior Warriors and successful folks on this forum think the newbies have to give blood or stumble along blindly. Rather, I think the biggest problem is the way in which potential students ask for mentors.

First, there seems to be an entitlement mentality coming from some of these potential students. They want a mentor who'll drop everything and give them guidance... for free. And even aside from monetary compensation, some potential students don't want to give anything in return. (Nevermind that some of the potential mentors charge hundreds or even thousands of dollars for their time.)

Most of those with the entitlement mentality never even follow up. They read the forum threads and don't do anything with the advice. They buy products and don't apply it. They beg for mentors and then don't follow through.

(Note -- I am not saying all or even most people do this or have this mentality, but experienced folks can recognize those "entitlement mentality" people fairly fast, and they steer clear of offering them personal guidance.)


Secondly, there is a lot of mentoring and helping out going on behind the scenes.


Third, it takes the same amount of time to advise one person via a PM as it does to advise someone in a public thread. The difference is that the public thread can help dozens, hundreds or even thousands of other people, while the advice given in a PM just helps that one person. As such, plenty of forum folks see that sharing their expertise publicly is the BEST use of their time.


Those are just a few factors that help explain why different people get different results when they're looking for mentors here on the forum. There are other factors, but you get the idea.

Cheers,
Becky

[AfteraDream]

Well, this forum is such a great place and you can find more info than you need actually to start. I agree that mentor is very useful and everyone should have one (I wish I had one) but still, come here, post your questions and you will get help, not from one person too..

[AfteraDream]

BTW, maybe offering 5 percent from your income would work in attracting a mentor

[Roz3377]

I think any of the newbies would GREATLY benefit from reading old posts on this forum. When I want to know something I will do a search on this forum and read all I can before asking for help. I think if everyone did this they wouldn't need as much help. Not everyone can give all their time and attention to someone starting out. I try and help anyone I can but I understand that some of the newbies can be a bit overwhelming.

[Tenzo]

I'm not convinced that it would be a good idea to be mentored by someone just because they responded to an anonymous thread asking for a mentor. Get to know people on the forum. Learn what facets of IM a warrior enjoys and is good at. Get a feel for communication styles and world-view(as it relates to business, at least).

Contact someone you respect with specific questions about something they know, and you may get a response. Act on that response and respect that persons time.

Maybe you'll get lucky.

Regards,
Kevin

[Adrian Cooper]

The major benefit for having a mentor I would think - I never had one - is answerability.

If you are on your own working from home there is no one there making sure that things get done when they are supposed to be done.

If you have a mentor they expect objectives to be met.

A better way of doing it is something I have been considering setting up for some time, and that is a mastermind group.

Virtually all of the top IM'ers are members of at least one mastermind group, and Napoleon Hill in Think and Grow Rich lists it as the most important factor for success.

[bay37]

Originally Posted by Alphy3000

What does one needs to do to make a ''Skilled'' Warrior (lets say someone who earns more than 10,000 a month or more) to be a Mentor? (and i'm not talking about fulltime personal coaching over the telephone because everyone has projects theyre working on, everyone is busy etc. No.. i'm talking about just some quick advice/guidelines to their specific situation.. a personal mentor they could go to).

I think a lot of people who have "made" it in the IM world are very hands on and hard working. This is what happens - you start mentoring 5 people, 4 of them go MIA for weeks, one keeps working at it for a couple weeks, loses some money and quits. This doesn't quite encourage the "mentors" to keep trying - whats the point?

After all, answering 10 - 20 emails per day, even if they're simple questions, takes a lot of time. When your students disappear or give up, it can be very frustrating.

That is the reason a lot of pros only do 1-1 coaching or charge big amounts of money and coach small groups - at least this way you can expect the person you're coaching to commit to the course a little more than usual.

I agree that there is a big need in the industry for quality 1-1 help, especially with various technical bits and what not. It is also a huge responsibility, which is something a lot of wannabe coaches do not understand. Once you start coaching someone, you have made a commitment and cannot pull back half way through.

In the end, it's just not worth it. Unless you really enjoy mentoring others. I would rather spend that time with my girlfriend, friends or just jogging on the beach...

[jasonl70]

I've tried to help out several warriors who have approached me in the past.. with few exceptions, they wouldn't listen to the advice given and often would stubbornly dig their heels in (like insisting their problem was "not enough traffic", when they had a site that simply didn't convert). Too much desire to cut corners, too much aversion to both analytical thought as well as learning some marketing/sales fundementals (like reading Dan Kennedy's Ultimate Sales Letter).

This doesn't apply to everyone of course, but it has been my experience the majority of the time

[runfast]

Originally Posted by bay37

I
I agree that there is a big need in the industry for quality 1-1 help, especially with various technical bits and what not. It is also a huge responsibility, which is something a lot of wannabe coaches do not understand. Once you start coaching someone, you have made a commitment and cannot pull back half way through.

In the end, it's just not worth it. Unless you really enjoy mentoring others. I would rather spend that time with my girlfriend, friends or just jogging on the beach...

Has anyone done 1 on 1 coaching by sharing the profits?

[Asher]

Originally Posted by R Hagel

• Rather, I think the biggest problem is the way in which potential students ask for mentors.
• First, there seems to be an entitlement mentality coming from some of these potential students.
• They want a mentor who'll drop everything and give them guidance... for free.
• And even aside from monetary compensation, some potential students don't want to give anything in return.
• Nevermind that some of the potential mentors charge hundreds or even thousands of dollars for their time.
• Most of those with the entitlement mentality never even follow up.
• They read the forum threads and don't do anything with the advice.
• They buy products and don't apply it. They beg for mentors and then don't follow through.

Hi Becky,

Great points you made. A point made by Jason Moffatt in
a different thread mentioned about how people should
stop blaming the marketer and start looking at the
irresponsible buyer applies in this case.

It's not the problem of mentors but the student itself.

Great stuff - thanks!

Asher

[Mugil]

A mentor needs to know the facts (I've seen some well-known Internet marketers stating some things that simply aren't true), needs to be able to "think like a newbie" (some marketers who have been in this business a long time don't seem to handle this part very well) and needs to know what it takes to succeed (everyone seems to have their own theories about this).

My mentor is Josh Spaulding. Highly recommended.

[Andy Fletcher]

You need to stop thinking, "What's in it for me?" and start wondering, "What's in it for them?"

Figure that second one out and you won't need a mentor.

[Kay King]

Has anyone done 1 on 1 coaching by sharing the profits?

I've seen new members ask for that often - but the problem is they are not in profit and 50% of $0 is still $0.

Michael's program is an example of one that would be great mentoring - if you are willing to put your money where your mouth is.

If you are not willing to pay for mentoring - you will need to do something on your own first before expecting someone to give up their time to help you. Use info on this forum, search google, etc - to learn the basics of IM on your own and apply it. You'll be noticed as someone who is serious about marketing - and be able to ask intelligent questions about specific methods or topics.

More importantly, you'll be seen as an up and coming new marketer rather than a "needy newbie" and others will want to help you succeed.

kay

[LB]

Of those who are truly skilled, you can hire them but it will cost you. Most of the "gurus" charge hundreds per hour and it's definitely worth it if you are in a position to take advantage of it.

HOWEVER, I place most of the blame on the "students" who want champagne mentoring at Big Mac prices or in many cases, no price at all. Some of them even get confrontational with a "prove it" attitude.

Most successful people don't feel any sort of obligation to prove anything, they are quite content to keep making money without your approval.

If you are truly looking for a mentor, get a clear idea of exactly WHAT you need help with and then seek out experts in that area.

I think not only newbies but EVERYONE would EXTREMELY benefit if they had just someone who could give them quick guidelines, quick personal advice to their specific situation, quick thoughts and tips to help them get to the next step.

"Quick" is a relative term and if it's worth answering, then it's worth answering fully.

There are plenty of great products on internet marketing that will give you all the quick answers and outlines you need.

Set out on your course and when you hit a real stumbling block you can seek out a mentor who specializes in that area.

[Daniel Brock]

I don't understand the whole mentor thing.

Do people not have enough thought power to think crap out on their own? The only mentors I have used are through the knowledge in ebooks that they pass through to me.

People like to use the mentor thing as a crutch imo - its like 'oh hey, i dont have a mentor yet so therefore there is no reason for me to do any work'

A way to get out of doing work in a way. They are also hoping that the mentor will do all the hard work for them - like tell them what will work for a certain site, give them step by step guidelines to follow on a specific niche, etc.

And I do agree with the person who said people just think they are entitled to these things without giving anything back. Honestly, why does someone making a ton of money want to give up their time for free, to help someone possibly take a piece of their own pie? They will get nothing...and possibly less by being a mentor.

[igorhelpsyousucceed]

There is mentoring going on in every single post here.

since it is a forum, the community is the mentor.
When a newbie comes asking for help, there are plenty
of people who show up with great inputs and insights.

However, it is up to the newbie to get the mentor and not the
other way around.

Igor

[CDarklock]

Originally Posted by Alphy3000

I noticed though, there not many mentors who immediately jumped and gladly offered their services to these ''newbies in search for guidance''.

People who make good mentors tend to have three things in common.

1. They are highly successful.
2. They understand what they do well enough to teach.
3. They truly love helping people by teaching them.

When you put these three things together, these people want to help as many people as possible as quickly as possible.

Mentoring one person is the single least efficient way to do that.

There has to be a value proposition in it for the mentor. Find the value proposition (val prop), and your chances of getting a mentor go way up.

[Mike Hill]

Originally Posted by AfteraDream

BTW, maybe offering 5 percent from your income would work in attracting a mentor

Well 5% of nothing is still nothing if they don't bother doing the work. They don't have anything invested into the relationship to actually work.

There will come a time when things get tough and if you don't have your hard earned money invested then a person will most likely quit.

Mike Hill

[Raydal]

Originally Posted by CDarklock

People who make good mentors tend to have three things in common.

1. They are highly successful.
2. They understand what they do well enough to teach.
3. They truly love helping people by teaching them.

When you put these three things together, these people want to help as many people as possible as quickly as possible.

Interesting list indeed, and #3 is a big issue for me. But some
people really don't want to be helped and that could be
frustrating.

Not everyone can teach their success and if you do this for
the money regrets can step in quite quickly. When you get
a student who has passion about learning what you teach
this can be all the reward a mentor needs.

-Ray Edwards

[Steven W Johnson]

I mentored NETWORK marketers 30 years ago. Man, what a pain in the butt! They were inconsistent, and unreliable. They'd say one thing, do another. They wouldn't show up. They wouldn't follow up. Heck, most of them would just blow away in the wind (largely because of the METHODS in use at the time, sadly)

I then got a taste of mentoring INTERNET MARKETERS. Ouch! Mostly the same thing - very easier to start, and very very hard to finish. Internet Marketers are more committed (perhaps do to the amount of money they have tied up in "the cause"), but equally adept at the same old human frailties and inconsistencies - and they too, largely wander off.

Now, I mentor exclusively DIRECT NETWORKERS (defined as those who apply Internet Marketing tactics and strategies to Network marketing monetization models) - wow! what a difference. Thanks perhaps solely to the power of the DN biz model, students are easier to start, even easier to get "to black" and stay way way longer and work harder than any cross-section of student I've ever coached or mentored. Never in my marketing/coaching life have I had this much fun mentoring!

And my favorite part? I don't have to charge a THING (thanks to the usual "incestuous" relationship that exists within the Professional Direct Networking business arena) hehe - if more mentors were compensated NOT based on their fee structure but based on the SIZE and VOLUME of the organization that develops from teaching a student.....well, it's just so much more powerful a model, is all I can say.

[hmigroupllc]

If I were offering mentor services, I would not be jumping on these requests for mentors either.

Unfortunately, it's not that most mentors don't want to mentor newbies, it's that most looking for a mentor are still of the mentality that it should cost them next to nothing to take the the skills from an expert who spent thousands, or tens of thousands of dollars themselves to get where they are.

So, until you are sure the person has a REAL business mentality - ie., that business and quality advices isn't free - then you really don't want to deal with it. It is a waste of time

Nothing personal about this. It is just a fact. Napoleon Hill covered it well almost 80 years ago. No matter how hard you try to change things, only 2% - in the end - ever have everything it takes to see a business through to success.

Starting off with the newbie, "I can do this for free" mentality is a non-starter. Mentoring anyone won't work until the person has eliminated this notion from their mind.

Wayne Sharer

[mmurtha]

Hey Alphy3000,

Originally Posted by Alphy3000

Correct me if i'm wrong.. but there is an ongoing ''Oh, youre a newbie? you just have to figure it out on yourself and give blood if you're just starting out '' Mentality.

I think this has NOT have to be the case.

Okay, I am correcting you. That thought and expression is as untrue as you can get!

I've been on this forum for awhile now and have never seen this mentality. In fact, I've witnessed just the opposite of it. The people here will bust a gut to help newbies or anyone else.

Yes, there are some that will charge for their services, but who can blame them. Who wouldn't expect that given the amount of time and experience it took them to gain the knowledge and success they share?

Did you think everyone should dive in on these types of threads and give their services free of charge?

I think people sometimes believe that other people owe them for some reason. Matter of fact, the world is made up of millions, but the truth is no one is owed anything. As Becky pointed out, these people have an "entitlement" mentality. So who has a negative mentality?

[Alan Petersen]

I see a lot of mentoring going on in these forums every day. Someone asks a questions or is looking for advice they'll usually find several warriors posting to help.

I have seen the threads asking for free mentors and that's another thing. At least take the time to develop relationships and friendships here and maybe some will take you on as mentee. But to post I'm looking for a free mentor well I'm not surprised you're not getting a bunch of successful warriors knocking your door down.

Mentors need to be successful in their own right so they're busy. I'm sure they help their friends out all the time but it's a stretch to expect them to take on a stranger. As others have said offering a % of your future profits is a bit silly since they don't know you from Adam. What happends if they spend hours/days/months mentoring you and you don't take action? You have waisted their time.

I think mentoring/coaching is important no matter what level you're at. I just signed up for my first mentor/coaching program. But I didn't post a thread on the warrior forum asking for free mentor. I found a good mentor and program and I coughed up some green.

That shows the mentor I'm serious. Plus they should be paid for their valuable time/knowledge. And it holds me accountable. I got money riding on this now. I want it to pay off in spades.

If you can't afford a mentor/coach continue checking out the forums and learning from the people here who share a lot of good information for free.

[Michael Mayo]

Here are a few facts to why I quit giving away free Mentoring/Coaching.

It the past I offered here on this forum 5 Free Coaching spots to the first
5 people that posted in the thread that they were interested in my offer.

All 5 were set up at my site with their own Private Message Board where they could contact me at nearly any time with questions.

The very first week only 2 of the 5 even bothered to log-in to the private
site and out of the 2 that did only 1 still remains a member.

The one that is still a member logs in about once a week to read the forum but no longer asks questions. Good or Bad? I think Good because we set this person up a model that he can do and if he needs me, he knows where to find me.

Out of the first 25 paying members that joined only 2 of them still remain
and the other 23 would make excuses to why they hadn't logged in for a
couple of weeks and then vanish still paying their monthly membership fee.

After one month of not logging into the private area and not giving me a
reason why, I canceled their membership and re-opened the training
positions.

Now I have 16 members and only 9 positions remaining open.

Here recently I offered 3 months of free coaching to a young lady that had posted here in the main forum that she really needed a coach/mentor.

She never replied back to my offer???

See, it's frustrating to try and Help someone that won't even try to help
themselves.

Now, I am very selective of whom I will even offer my services to when it
comes to coaching because I don't have time to waste on someones
false dreams.

Result:
Now if someone signs up for coaching and Pays their first months
membership fee it doesn't mean they will be accepted int my coaching
program. What?... If I don't accept someone into coaching then I return
them their money at that time.

This is a case were the sum of the many have ruined it for the remaining
few that would actually take action.

Nuf rambling, Hope you got my points.

Have a Great Day!
Michael

PS. If you were to look in the WSO forum right now you wold see that John Taylor and
Andy Henry are offering free Affiliate Training via the "Affiliate Marketing bootcamp" in their
WSO. Here is the link to the WSO: [FREE WSO] A Call To Arms...

[Steven W Johnson]

I charge for mentoring, but my model is a radical departure from a traditional "fee for services rendered" approach. Because I drop nearly 100% of everything I charge my students BACK INTO THEIR BUSINESS. Often MORE than 100% - if they don't make the big bucks, neither do I - it's akin to a "percentage of the long-term prize" strategy. And how much of that would they be giving up if they WEREN'T using my services, but were pursuing the same industry/model? EXACTLY THE SAME AMOUNT, irrespective of whether they get an advanced marketer/mentor in their camp or not. Sort of a no-brainer.

[Steven W Johnson]

Originally Posted by Michael Mayo

Here recently I offered 3 months of free coaching to a young lady that had posted here in the main forum that she really needed a coach/mentor.

She never replied back to my offer???

Here's a simple way to solve that. Charge 30 grand for your services for a year (heck, Russell gets that for a DAY!! hehe)

Think they just MIGHT call you a bit more then? LOL

[Steven W Johnson]

Mentors (and ESPECIALLY Internet Marketing Mentors) are NOTORIOUS for undervaluing their services - it's a common difficulty throughout the consulting world, but within the IM space, the "compression" of fees for services rendered is almost laughable. Mentors are WORTH MORE!! Charge accordingly!

[Michael Mayo]

Originally Posted by Steven W Johnson

Mentors (and ESPECIALLY Internet Marketing Mentors) are NOTORIOUS for undervaluing their services - it's a common difficulty throughout the consulting world, but within the IM space, the "compression" of fees for services rendered is almost laughable. Mentors are WORTH MORE!! Charge accordingly!

Hi Steve,

I tend to agree with you although I didn't create the WarriorDojo for the
purpose of making money. It started as a way for me to give back to the
WF for all the knowledge I've received here.

I try to help by making it affordable for those that actually want to reach
their goals.

The reason I charge now is the fact that it helps to weed through the
tire kickers.

Truly, I do like to see others to succeed. It gives me the feeling of
accomplishment when I know I made a difference in someones life.

Have a Great Day!
Michael

[runfast]

Mentoring is lot like a marriage. It works Best if the Mentor Wants to Teach and the Students Wants to Learn. I think there are to many newbies that want to get rich quick and don't want to Learn slowly. And then there are Mentors that get frustrated because the Student is upset because they paid 5K to learn how to make 10k in 60 days and it didn't happen.
A good mentor should have a good long visit over the phone and 1 or 2 free coaching classes. Hopefully by then they can analyze how dedicated they really are to succeeding.
Again it is like a marriage...when both need/want each other then good things can happen.

[Alminc]

Here's a simple way to solve that. Charge 30 grand for your services for a year (heck, Russell gets that for a DAY!! hehe)

I think that every expensive mentoring should include two parts:
- it should teach me how to fish
- it should give me a lot of fish too

An example: If a mentor teaches me how to generate targeted traffic
to my site he should demonstrate it in live by creating a website
and generating targeted traffic to that website, document every single
detail of what he did, and then hand everything to me: the site with
existing traffic and complete documentation on how it is done.
Then I could replicate it by analysing the site he created and by studying
the documented operations performed by mentor.

And so for any other aspect of online business.
If it's about product creation, mentor should create a product for me and
document every single step done, etc, etc.

Mentoring that only teaches you how to fish, without giving you the fish
too, is hardly worth the fee paid by the mentoree.

[Steven W Johnson]

To continue with the metaphor, I teach fly-tying, and wrist movement, and equipment research and design, and time-of-day strategies, and GETTING INSIDE THE HEAD OF THE FISH skills, and then cleaning the fish, cooking it, storing it for future use, along with fertilizing the garden with what's left over (smiling) and I WONT STOP til there's a boatload in the freezer (literally, i use BOATS!) and a big ol garden growing thanks to all that yummy fertilizer! hehe

[jhongren]

I believe that people who spend different amount of money
have different attitude and mindset.

This is what I gathered from my own expereince.

I agree with Michael...many asked for free mentoring
are not that committed as compared to those who
are willing to spend a certain sum of money.

I had one experience which a subscriber of mine
asked me for free mentoring as he really needed
the amount of money urgently.

I helped him then and gave him my private email.
He never replied me after I have sent him a long email
with 15 questions asking for his experience, his
strengths and weakness, his resources etc so I can
better understand him and work with him.

But he never replied.

Anyway, in another incident for someone who
paid the mentoring fee upfront, he is always
completing the assignment I gave him on time.

I was discussing this with Jeremy that we would
prefer to mentor a paying mentee who is willing
to pay for our time and experience because he
is at the same time committed to his own success.

My 2 cents,
John

[CDarklock]

There is a zen saying, "When the student is ready, the teacher appears."

If you don't have a mentor, you are probably not ready for a mentor. When you are, one will present itself. Asking - and waiting - for one only gets in the way of becoming ready.

[jasonl70]

people looking for free mentoring for a cut of future profits are expecting someone else to take on all of the risk of their business start-up. That's a pretty crazy proposition.

I understand there's good money in coaching programs, but I don't know if I could deal with the lack of follow-through of the students.

[Sue Harrison]

Hi all

As someone who posted a thread asking for a mentor a couple of days ago (which is probably what sparked this thread off) I can only apologise for asking, given the answers I have read through on here.

I take on board everything that has been said here and realise that what I was expecting was something I really wasn't entitled to. The people here who are earning alot of money via IM, or whatever way, are doing so because they have tried and tested numerous methods (and failed no doubt on occasion) but have stuck with it, and eventually found the route to success.

There is so much information on here that I agree, people like me shouldn't need to ask for help, on a one-to-one basis, without expecting to pay for it.

On another thread I have admitted how "afraid" I am of taking that first step to actually doing something - my problem, no-one elses.

I honestly can't think of a valid reason why anyone would want to mentor me, for next to nothing, given my inability to actually start to put into practice, a plan of action, given that I can find an answer to most questions on here - the only things I am suffering from are information overload and being "side-tracked" via so many links to other things and wondering if the first thing I was considering doing is better than the second, or third.....

I apologise (sincerely) and do actually appreciate the kick up the backside that reading all these posts has given me

[Ldimilo]

The issue with mentoring someone interested in Internet marketing is really where to start....

So where do YOU start?

*with the internet technicalities?
*time management?
*basic business principles?
*tools that can help automate things for you?
*Marketing and sales philosophies?
*Systems?

The reality is that most people who want to be mentored for free really are saying that they aren't willing to invest in themselves to make money. If you are a mentor and have a student that isn't willing to invest in themselves, why would you invest in them?

[Steven W Johnson]

Originally Posted by Sue Harrison

I apologise (sincerely) and do actually appreciate the kick up the backside that reading all these posts has given me

No apology necessary, Sue. Starting the conversation is a step that a VERY LARGE percentage of wannabes never ever even take!! Then, following through, and asking even MORE questions, and DIGESTING the responses is what the WF is all about. So, whether you realize it or not, you are ON YOUR WAY. Don't be too hard on yourself. Every single one of the warriors here with 200 or 2000 or 12,000 posts started with a post count (and related level of understanding of all this) of ZERO!! Remember that! You'll get there. Just remember, now that you've begun, NEVER QUIT!

[John Durham]

Originally Posted by Ldimilo

The reality is that most people who want to be mentored for free really are saying that they aren't willing to invest in themselves to make money. If you are a mentor and have a student that isn't willing to invest in themselves, why would you invest in them?

You must come from the world which has forgotten that "some people really don't actually have money".

Doesn't mean they don't have potential.

[slvrsrfr]

Originally Posted by kadensnga

You must come from the world which has forgotten that "some people really don't actually have money".

Doesn't mean they don't have potential.

thanks for this kadensnga,

that's the problem i'm facing. i just got laid off today and so i don't have money to spend on mentoring but i've got the time, the motivation and the potential to work hard at this.

thing is, do folks not do anything altruistically anymore. i don't think just because someone has money to spend on mentoring that they'll be a better candidate.

it depends how hungry you are to succeed. and man i'm famished :O)

[jasonl70]

Originally Posted by kadensnga

You must come from the world which has forgotten that "some people really don't actually have money".

Doesn't mean they don't have potential.

Originally Posted by slvrsrfr

thanks for this kadensnga,

that's the problem i'm facing. i just got laid off today and so i don't have money to spend on mentoring but i've got the time, the motivation and the potential to work hard at this.

thing is, do folks not do anything altruistically anymore. i don't think just because someone has money to spend on mentoring that they'll be a better candidate.

it depends how hungry you are to succeed. and man i'm famished :O)

Let's pretend for a minute that what you wanted to do was start a different business (rather then IM). Just for giggles, let's just say it's a automotive body shop. Would you walk up to the owner of a shop and ask him to create you a business plan, a marketing plan, and teach you the ropes - for free?

The fact is I have invested a ton of time helping others for free. I've spent entire weekends brainstorming business plans, etc, just to have the other person NOT DO A THING. That's time wasted, which I could have spent with my son or on my own business.

Even worse, people do not realize that it's more then just an investment of our time when we decide to help them - we have an emotional investment as well.

This scenerio has panned out at least 90% of the time I have agreed to help people out - I, for one, simply have no desire to go through it anymore.

I've also offered to help newbies by offering to JV (they build the product [which they already were going to do], I orchestrate the launch and promote to my list), and not once has a single one of them EVER followed through.

I've prepaid new warriors for services when they were in financial jam - and they took the money and ran. One even used the money to offer services on the WF, and apparantly had problems delivering to them as well.

I've stayed up late at night putting code together for warriors (for free), and again a LOT of them never even said thanks.

I'm like Charlie Brown, constantly believing that this time Lucy won't pull the football away at the last second

-end of rant - But now maybe some folks will understand what it's like on the other side.

[John Durham]

Originally Posted by jasonl70

Let's pretend for a minute that what you wanted to do was start a different business (rather then IM). Just for giggles, let's just say it's a automotive body shop. Would you walk up to the owner of a shop and ask him to create you a business plan, a marketing plan, and teach you the ropes - for free?

The fact is I have invested a ton of time helping others for free. I've spent entire weekends brainstorming business plans, etc, just to have the other person NOT DO A THING. That's time wasted, which I could have spent with my son or on my own business.

Even worse, people do not realize that it's more then just an investment of our time when we decide to help them - we have an emotional investment as well.

This scenerio has panned out at least 90% of the time I have agreed to help people out - I, for one, simply have no desire to go through it anymore.

I've also offered to help newbies by offering to JV (they build the product [which they already were going to do], I orchestrate the launch and promote to my list), and not once has a single one of them EVER followed through.

I've prepaid new warriors for services when they were in financial jam - and they took the money and ran. One even used the money to offer services on the WF, and apparantly had problems delivering to them as well.

I've stayed up late at night putting code together for warriors (for free), and again a LOT of them never even said thanks.

I'm like Charlie Brown, constantly believing that this time Lucy won't pull the football away at the last second

-end of rant - But now maybe some folks will understand what it's like on the other side.

I think it's about expectations management.

You have to train 20 people at a time to create 2-4 success stories. It's worth it to find a diamond in the rough.

[willkho]

Originally Posted by Mugil

A mentor needs to know the facts (I've seen some well-known Internet marketers stating some things that simply aren't true), needs to be able to "think like a newbie" (some marketers who have been in this business a long time don't seem to handle this part very well) and needs to know what it takes to succeed (everyone seems to have their own theories about this).

My mentor is Josh Spaulding. Highly recommended.

Hi Mugil,

I am a newbie too and I am looking for a mentor to help me to get on the right path to IM success. I am certain that your mentor had done something good for you that you have recommended him in this forum. Would you mind sharing your experience with us?

[willkho]

I am a newbie and I do understand the needs of having a mentor. A good responsible and sincere mentor. Not one who is just wanting to get your money and let you struggle on your own and giving crab excuses of not following the steps or not doing the assignment etc.

When a newbie wants to engage a mentor, he is already wanting to take a serious step in IM. Otherwise he can always just rely on ebooks, software, forum, blogs etc. I do agree that one needs to be paid for work done. So paying a mentor for his guidance is a fair deal.

I would say that if a student fails to get results after being mentored, both mentor and student have to be blamed for the failure. It is either the mentor is not getting his message across or the student is not listening.

Many of us wants to be our won boss. IM gives us that freedom and most of all is a low cost and low risk business where many can afford it. BUt if a mentor is to charge a huge sum just for mentoring, many newbies will have to think twice or thrice before wanting to go into IM. Paying such a great sum and yet success is not certain, this makes it a high risk investment.

[tofumonkey]

you know, there's a difference between looking for a mentor and be 'guided through' VERSUS being served success on a silver platter.

I've seen so many people pay money for courses, ebooks, seminars, even mentorship and they themselves don't follow through.

Sometimes, success is simple. Only that it requires alot of action. But it is exactly the same thing that people are unwilling to do.

[Barry Walls]

I think its best to make it painful for the student for while at the start. This helps to sort out the wheat from the chaff. If students won't go through the painful process, then its a good indication that you can't help them...they are likely opportunity chasers rather than business builders...and are doomed to being endlessly distracted by the next shiny thing. Mentors have a duty to themselves to identify and weed out these students.

Sometimes, this involves money, but hard task focus is much better IMO. It has to be a baptism of fire. Large sales organizations use this method to sort new graduates all the time. They put them in a pressure cooker and invest their time in whats left over once the cooking is finished.

Anyone who wants mentoring for free doesn't value the time of the mentor. Why should they? The mentor obviously doesn't value his own time if he gives it away for free.

If someone comes to me and says "I don't have the money" my immediate reaction is "go and get a bucket and a sponge, knock on doors and wash cars".

Those who do are bound to succeed at whatever they do in life.

All the best

Barry

[AfteraDream]

Originally Posted by Mike Hill

Well 5% of nothing is still nothing if they don't bother doing the work. They don't have anything invested into the relationship to actually work.

There will come a time when things get tough and if you don't have your hard earned money invested then a person will most likely quit.

Mike Hill

Yeah, but if you do succeed then those 5 percent can be a lot. I personally don't intend to quit on my project. It is not doing as well as I'd love to but I understand it's my fault and I need to do more marketing (which is boring and repetitive..). I'd love to have a mentor and I'd probably be willing to part with 5 percent to have one.

[Mark McClure]

If you want a provocative view on why many people don't 'follow through' in mentoring or coaching programs, read George Leonard's book, Mastery.

He describes very concisely (and without being condescending or arrogant) the "Master's Journey" and how all of us, to varying degrees, meet the 'dabbler', the 'obsessive' and the 'hacker' within us and around us...

I am a coach and have also been coached.
Leonard is right on the money IMHO.

[Adrian Cooper]

Originally Posted by willkho

I
I would say that if a student fails to get results after being mentored, both mentor and student have to be blamed for the failure. It is either the mentor is not getting his message across or the student is not listening.

Many of us wants to be our won boss. IM gives us that freedom and most of all is a low cost and low risk business where many can afford it. BUt if a mentor is to charge a huge sum just for mentoring, many newbies will have to think twice or thrice before wanting to go into IM. Paying such a great sum and yet success is not certain, this makes it a high risk investment.

Mentoring is of limited value because it cannot convey the factor required for success - Mind. As I mentioned before, success is 90% Mind and 10% application.

If a person does not have the right Mindset, no amount of mentoring will make an iota of difference any more than products will.

[Kay King]

I was just reading a thread that is a good example of the "mindset" issue.

A few months ago a member laid out in detail in a FREE WF thread the method he was using. Recently he came back to report most recent results (which were great) and gave details on refinements he had made to the method he's using. In both threads he answered every question asked - in detail.

But several people are not taking this valuable advice and using it - they are asking him to "do a WSO and I'll buy it". THAT's the mentality you often run into when trying to help someone totally new. No amount of advice is ever enough...

kay