Sorry, I just don't believe you.

[Marty S]

Andrew Fox just sent out an email with a link to a video while also mentioning his fantastic vacation on a luxury yacht.

I am NOT saying he is fabricating, but the nature of the video is so entirely over-used, my natural instinct these days is to just think to myself, "I don't believe you."

Let me tell you I did not finish the video because when the first half of the video shows me NOTHING about what he is offering, but instead rambles on endlessly about "limited time offer", "nobody will ever get this offer again", "this video will be removed forever", "someone makes $20,000 month", blah, blah, blah.. X - close window.

Is it just me or do you guys get doubtful about a marketer when all they can say is limited, urgent, important.. and show NOTHING of why we are actually watching?

Andrew Fox may very well be the most honest person online, but I simply do not have time to hear these guys boast about their lives, money, vacations, testimonials etc. There are just too many of you. This may be a good strategy for hooking up newbies, but I have seen this all too often, with nothing to show for it except wasted time on re-rendered ideas.

NOTE to Gurus: if you send me a video, please just skip the hype BS, and tell me what you can do for me in the first 30 seconds. I am bright enough to see the potential in an idea or concept and if you can respect my time and intelligence, I am MUCH more likely to get involved with your list/product.

[Ian Jackson]

Originally Posted by Marty S

Andrew Fox just sent out an email with a link to a video while also mentioning his fantastic vacation on a luxury yacht.

I am NOT saying he is fabricating, but the nature of the video is so entirely over-used, my natural instinct these days is to just think to myself, "I don't believe you."

Let me tell you I did not finish the video because when the first half of the video shows me NOTHING about what he is offering, but instead rambles on endlessly about "limited time offer", "nobody will ever get this offer again", "this video will be removed forever", "someone makes $20,000 month", blah, blah, blah.. X - close window.

Is it just me or do you guys get doubtful about a marketer when all they can say is limited, urgent, important.. and show NOTHING of why we are actually watching?

Andrew Fox may very well be the most honest person online, but I simply do not have time to hear these guys boast about their lives, money, vacations, testimonials etc. There are just too many of you. This may be a good strategy for hooking up newbies, but I have seen this all too often, with nothing to show for it except wasted time on re-rendered ideas.

NOTE to Gurus: if you send me a video, please just skip the hype BS, and tell me what you can do for me in the first 30 seconds. I am bright enough to see the potential in an idea or concept and if you can respect my time and intelligence, I am MUCH more likely to get involved with your list/product.

Absolutely. Historically, I've had all this BS padding too, a lot in direct mailings from IM people like Andrew Reynolds and other people who've been under his tutelage. Not saying Andrew's not good at his vocation, quite the contrary, but the waffle is blinding.

[nostih]

If I made $20K a month only me, the IRS and my accountant would know about it. I guess that's why I have such a disdain for IM. I want to use the internet as a tool to market my service business and that's it. It's like some sort of cult with this online stuff.

[ss442]

Hi Marty, I can relate, I am on a several lists and all that "limited time" stuff is wearing thin on me too.

What marketers are focused on is 'getting the sale as soon as possible' and thus the "buy me before it's too late" syndrome. I kind of like the thought that the product and owner is going to be around for a while.

I know marketing is always changing but I agree with you here. Good point.

[nostih]

Is there such a thing in which you sign up to a ezine and the ezine actually provides value......no sales, no "sponsered ads", nothing involving a sales pitch. Just good old fashioned value?

I think for my ezine I am going to do it that way. The only thing I'll put is my contact info at the bottom. That's it.

Originally Posted by ss442

Hi Marty, I can relate, I am on a several lists and all that "limited time" stuff is wearing thin on me too.

What marketers are focused on is 'getting the sale as soon as possible' and thus the "buy me before it's too late" syndrome. I kind of like the thought that the product and owner is going to be around for a while.

I know marketing is always changing but I agree with you here. Good point.

[JackPowers]

Originally Posted by Ron.

If I made $20K a month only me, the IRS and my accountant would know about it. I guess that's why I have such a disdain for IM. I want to use the internet as a tool to market my service business and that's it. It's like some sort of cult with this online stuff.

I have to agree with you here!

I see it as being two different kind of marketers here:

Those that sell outside the group

Those that sell inside the group

The latter is more alike to pyramid scheme salesperson offering time and time again to bring you riches and fame. Appealing purely to greed.

[jasonl70]

Andrew Fox is a very successful and well known marketer and super affiliate - his yacht and ferrari are the real deal.

I suppose if your marketing is more successful then his, you can tell him 'what works'.

[CDarklock]

Originally Posted by Marty S

Andrew Fox just sent out an email with a link to a video while also mentioning his fantastic vacation on a luxury yacht.

Whereas Kevin Thompson sent one out the week before last with a link to a video while mentioning his friend's ride with a NASCAR driver.

Nascar Racing Kevin Thompson - The Automatic Income Coach

Compare the two and ask yourself which one makes you trust the source more.

Three marketers to watch: Kevin Thompson, John Alanis, Jeff Czyzewski. They're doing it right. If you want to do it right, study what they do that other marketers don't.

[Loren Woirhaye]

Originally Posted by Ron.

Is there such a thing in which you sign up to a ezine and the ezine actually provides value......no sales, no "sponsered ads", nothing involving a sales pitch. Just good old fashioned value?

I think for my ezine I am going to do it that way. The only thing I'll put is my contact info at the bottom. That's it.

good idea. Check out Paul Myers's TalkBiz ezine. He does
pitch stuff (mostly his own reports) but most of it's about
how stuff works. Always fun to read.

[Marty S]

Originally Posted by jasonl70

Andrew Fox is a very successful and well known marketer and super affiliate - his yacht and ferrari are the real deal.

I suppose if your marketing is more successful then his, you can tell him what works'.

You miss the point, as I am saying what works on me. I know there is going to be big love for any IMer I mention here, but his just came in today and it wasn't effective.

On the other hand, I got a few really good and helpful videos from StomperNet recently, just to let you know I am not out to bash your friend.

[nostih]

Not really,


it depends on what your selling and whom your selling it to. If you're selling high end consulting to CEO's do you think they would buy using those methods? No, I don't think so.




[quote=CDarklock;921291]Whereas Kevin Thompson sent one out the week before last with a link to a video while mentioning his friend's ride with a NASCAR driver.

Nascar Racing Kevin Thompson - The Automatic Income Coach

Compare the two and ask yourself which one makes you trust the source more.

Three marketers to watch: Kevin Thompson, John Alanis, Jeff Czyzewski. They're doing it right. If you want to do it right, study what they do that other marketers don't.[/quote]

[rapidscc]

Originally Posted by jasonl70

Andrew Fox is a very successful and well known marketer and super affiliate - his yacht and ferrari are the real deal.

I suppose if your marketing is more successful then his, you can tell him 'what works'.

Hi Jason,

I think I can see marty's point here..She's just saying that people should focus on value in their marketing..What can they give people...what is their value proposition.

As for marketing with hype, since we are marketers, we should know that these are marketing efforts that converts..it may leave some bad taste but they work specially for newbies..So I guess they are pretty much used..

Now this is my opinion regarding this matter..If we are affected by this types of marketing it simply means somehow our mentality is still that of a buyer's.

Why not do the same instead, but this time add the "thing" that is missing with the commonly used method.

That way you could help change it for the better..That is if we're all internet marketers here...

oMar

[Wasabi Kurt]

Originally Posted by Marty S

I simply do not have time to hear these guys boast about their lives, money, vacations, testimonials etc. There are just too many of you. This may be a good strategy for hooking up newbies, but I have seen this all too often, with nothing to show for it except wasted time on re-rendered ideas.

NOTE to Gurus: if you send me a video, please just skip the hype BS, and tell me what you can do for me in the first 30 seconds. I am bright enough to see the potential in an idea or concept and if you can respect my time and intelligence, I am MUCH more likely to get involved with your list/product.

Thank you Marty, you're so right! I think this whole trend in IM started back when audio interviews (both as free lead generators and ones for sale) became so popular and it hasn't stopped with video. There's almost nothing I hate more in IM than having to listen to an hour or two of rambling drivel in an audio only to discover that there was maybe one or at most two sentences worth of actual useful content in the entire MP3 (or video)!!! Of course the creators know this which is why they often don't provide written transcripts of the content, or if they do it's for an added fee. Worse yet is to discover that all this time has been wasted to find out that if you want any real content, you have to subscribe to their multi-hundred dollar a month membership site, where you have the chance to watch another 12 or 20 hours of video in order to extract a few pages of notes and content...

The only exceptions to this I can think of are some of Frank Kern's lengthy videos. Not all of them, just some. He provides a very unique blend of entertainment, content and marketing, and if you're paying attention you can learn a ton of things about how to market effectively just by watching a video that he's created to try to sell you one of his products.

[CDarklock]

Originally Posted by Ron.

If you're selling high end consulting to CEO's do you think they would buy using those methods?

Yes. Why don't you?

Are you all bound up in what it is, instead of what it's doing?

[nostih]

Based on what's in your singnature, I can see why you'd think that. It seems you don't care about how it's sold, just sell it. Maybe the way I do things is not your cup of tea but I have way to much integrity to use methods like that. I would not feel comfortable doing that.

If it works by all means go for it. It's just not for me. I want to do more than just "sell them something".

Originally Posted by CDarklock

Yes. Why don't you?

Are you all bound up in what it is, instead of what it's doing?

[bemore]

I agree and correct me if I'm wrong, but are there an exceptionally large amount of these same offers coming out daily? It seems like there's more than ever, all screaming for our attention. Granted, they obviously work or else no one would be doing them.

But, good point. Most of us don't really care how much your yacht or car costs. I don't see Bill Gates going on about how much his 50,000 square foot house costs, but I guarantee it's more than the yacht and the car put together. I think we're just so bombarded with the offers day in and day out, urgent, $10 billion worth of bonuses, etc and it's getting kind of old.

Don't get me wrong, sometimes there's a gold nugget buried in there, but a 30-40 minute video to tell us about it is just too much. If the sales pitch can't be said in 5 minutes or less, it's wasting time.

It probably stems from the fact that nowadays, everyone wants a ton of proof, screenshots, income and check photos, etc. I mean, it's great if someone if showing you how to use a piece of software and makes a 20 minute video on the features it has included. But a sales pitch that long is unnecessary.

On another note, maybe it would be wise for us to step back and examine their sales process. Maybe they're on to something that we don't see yet. Something that may be used in our own business. Remember that we were all new at some point and some of these tactics may have worked on people here as well. It takes more to impress someone with knowledge anymore but there might be something that we're missing.

Anyway, everyone is right, and wrong. Just depends on which side of the fence you're standing. Just my two cents. P

[Eric Lorence]

I think you're a little out of their "Target Market", which is those already earning 2-5k per month, and looking to reach the next level.

If you don't have the basics down, these programs will do little for you.

Have to find more beginners programs, like some mentioned above.

Yes, those numbers are real for them, but they've been at it for a while.

[raymagnetic]

Originally Posted by Marty S

Andrew Fox just sent out an email with a link to a video while also mentioning his fantastic vacation on a luxury yacht.

I am NOT saying he is fabricating, but the nature of the video is so entirely over-used, my natural instinct these days is to just think to myself, "I don't believe you."

Let me tell you I did not finish the video because when the first half of the video shows me NOTHING about what he is offering, but instead rambles on endlessly about "limited time offer", "nobody will ever get this offer again", "this video will be removed forever", "someone makes $20,000 month", blah, blah, blah.. X - close window.

Is it just me or do you guys get doubtful about a marketer when all they can say is limited, urgent, important.. and show NOTHING of why we are actually watching?

Andrew Fox may very well be the most honest person online, but I simply do not have time to hear these guys boast about their lives, money, vacations, testimonials etc. There are just too many of you. This may be a good strategy for hooking up newbies, but I have seen this all too often, with nothing to show for it except wasted time on re-rendered ideas.

NOTE to Gurus: if you send me a video, please just skip the hype BS, and tell me what you can do for me in the first 30 seconds. I am bright enough to see the potential in an idea or concept and if you can respect my time and intelligence, I am MUCH more likely to get involved with your list/product.

I'm in agreement with you. A lot of these guys make their millions selling a dream. I'm not mad at them for it or knocking their hustles, to each his own I say.

I'm just not in a big hurry to take my wallet out and buy what most of these guys are selling.

One thing I was always taught is that if something sounds too good to be true then it usually is. Just my opinion.

[jasonl70]

Again, Andrew Fox is extemely successfull. As far as I can tell, nobody here is in any position to say he's doing things wrong - it's like me trying to say Tiger Woods is playing golf wrong. And the fact is this: Andrew's "swing" has put him into the big leagues, in a short time, at a young age.

It doesn't matter what ANY of us think of him. What matters is if he can strike the right chord with enough people to generate sales, and he's figured out that what he "focus's on" seems to strike the right chord with enough people to make him millions from his efforts.

[LB]

Originally Posted by jasonl70

Again, Andrew Fox is extemely successfull. As far as I can tell, nobody here is in any position to say he's doing things wrong - it's like me trying to say Tiger Woods is playing golf wrong. And the fact is this: Andrew's "swing" has put him into the big leagues, in a short time, at a young age.

It doesn't matter what ANY of us think of him. What matters is if he can strike the right chord with enough people to generate sales, and he's figured out that what he "focus's on" seems to strike the right chord with enough people to make him millions from his efforts.

Well said.

There is so much bitching on this forum about marketing...is this still a marketing forum?

Ironically, if someone was pitching a money-making course from the street corner in tattered clothes people would laugh at their lack of credibility. So instead it's done from a yacht and people get offended.

Makes ya think.

[nostih]

^No, peolple just like to express themselves. You do it, I do it, we all do it. You may not have a POV on this subject but I am sure you've racked up over 2000 posts talking about something.

There's no harm in asking a question. Take it at face value. Either answer or don't.

[jasonl70]

Originally Posted by Ron.

Based on what's in your singnature, I can see why you'd think that. It seems you don't care about how it's sold, just sell it. Maybe the way I do things is not your cup of tea but I have way to much integrity to use methods like that. I would not feel comfortable doing that.

If it works by all means go for it. It's just not for me. I want to do more than just "sell them something".

He (Andrew) is selling products teaching people how to make money. His own success is proof of his ability to make money. There is nothing unethical or unsavory about showing proof of your ability.

This is marketing 101 people - sell the results. And in the world of IM, the success of the IM'er is the biggest testimony as to the results of their methods (unless you're part of the crowd the actually believes the guru's have secrets and won't actually teach you what they do). Generaly, it's the mediocre IM'ers (ie, those without amazing success) who have issue with this. I'll leave the analysis of this to your own imaginations..

BTW - it DOES work with ceo's.. I was a senior manager for an IT consulting company - we did not sell the nut's-and-bolts of the techology, we sold the results of implementing our solution. This is simply the psychology of sales.

[Marty S]

Originally Posted by jasonl70

It doesn't matter what ANY of us think of him.

No point again, we really aren't talking about him, but moreso Guru's strategy to marketers who have some experience already. This blah blah candy doesn't work on me anymore, but I did say that it's probably a good thing to suck in newbs.

All I am conveying is that Gurus have to place a value on MY time, because I already do make full time money at this. So if I am going to give any of them my time/money, for me at least, I want them to come right to the point.

Jason you are somehow associating this with defending a marketer you seem to like and have probably purchased from. That's great, it's not personal but I was just wondering if others shared my point of view about unnecessary hyping.

[USEO]

Originally Posted by Marty S

You miss the point,...

I don't think Jason does miss the point.

Your Title Say's "Sorry, I just don't believe you."

Jason's reply is saying "his is the real deal, he does have the cars, he does
have the yacht, he does have the money".

You don't believe him - Jason "knows" it's true.

That said I totally understand why you don't get turned on by AF's
flaunting his wealth.

For him, it clearly works, it turns on enough people for a few minutes and
just long enough for them to get the Plastic Out and buy his stuff.

Just my thrupence worth.

Craig K.

[tommygadget]

Originally Posted by Marty S

No point again, we really aren't talking about him, but moreso Guru's strategy to marketers who have some experience already. This blah blah candy doesn't work on me anymore, but I did say that it's probably a good thing to suck in newbs.

All I am conveying is that Gurus have to place a value on MY time, because I already do make full time money at this. So if I am going to give any of them my time/money, for me at least, I want them to come right to the point.

Jason you are somehow associating this with defending a marketer you seem to like and have probably purchased from. That's great, it's not personal but I was just wondering if others shared my point of view about unnecessary hyping.

Marty, you're totally wrong, no disrespect intended. I have done several trials of selling helpful products which show people how to make money online. When I cut straight to the chase, cut out the "fat" and hype and showed exactly what my products could to for their bottom line, they bombed. The ONLY time when I totally dispensed with the fluff and pre-sell was with my last wso (closed, I'm not selling anything). The ONLY reason that was so successful is because I have a track record a mile long here. It would NOT work out in the "wild" so to speak. I hope you don't take this the wrong way, it's just my opinion, but backed up with real-world experience. Having said that, it really annoys me when I get emails that drone on about someone's latest vacation for several paragraphs before getting to the point, but we weren't talking about that, were we?

TomG.

[Peter Adamson]

Originally Posted by Marty S

This may be a good strategy for hooking up newbies, but I have seen this all too often, with nothing to show for it except wasted time on re-rendered ideas

That's the point. They are targetting newbies. The first info product I bought as a newbie was such hype and rubbish I would not spend 5 seconds reading the sales letter today. But how many people turn 18 every year? How many fresh aspiring IMers read their first sales letter every year? There are a lot of them, and they seem to be easy targets because these guys are lining their pockets and the phenomenon does not look like it will abate any time soon.

[Marty S]

Originally Posted by tommygadget

Marty, you're totally wrong, no disrespect intended. I have done several trials of selling helpful products which show people how to make money online. When I cut straight to the chase, cut out the "fat" and hype and showed exactly what my products could to for their bottom line, they bombed. The ONLY time when I totally dispensed with the fluff and pre-sell was with my last wso (closed, I'm not selling anything).

I don't understand what you think I am wrong about when I say it doesn't work on me. It's like a fluff video to me, because I am in a spot where I ONLY have time for GURUS who can give me some real valuable advice in rather short order.

[Jeff Henshaw]

Is there such a thing in which you sign up to a ezine and the ezine actually provides value......no sales, no "sponsered ads", nothing involving a sales pitch. Just good old fashioned value?

I think for my ezine I am going to do it that way. The only thing I'll put is my contact info at the bottom. That's it.

Your proposed ezine 'business model' has one flaw, in my opinion, that is - how will you make money from it? Providing valuable targeted information is vital ... but ...

Remember that you are spending time and money creating the ezine and the subscriber page(s). Then there are the advertising/promotion and autoresponder costs, not to mention the hosting.

You should at least cover your costs, even if you don't intend to make money directly from your ezine. Of course, if you have something bigger in mind to earn money from your subscribers, then please ignore everything that I have posted.

Regards,
Jeff.

[CDarklock]

Originally Posted by Ron.

Based on what's in your singnature, I can see why you'd think that.

No, you can't.

Information marketing is backwards. We've all heard "sell the sizzle, not the steak" - but information marketing promises a steak and delivers the sizzle.

"Hear that? That's steak!"

Yeah, but you can't eat it. We're not really delivering what we sell. That's why so many people are unhappy with it. That's why refund rates are so high. That's why people call it a scam and bad-mouth us everywhere as liars and cheats.

What makes John, Kevin, and Jeff different is they admit out of the gate that you have to work your arse off to get the steak. You don't just automatically get a steak when you hear the sizzle. There's work to be done.

It's clear to me that you don't understand what Kevin's doing in that blog post, so I'll clarify it for you.

- He's not bragging about how much money he has and what he does with it. He's showing you his friend having fun.

- He's not telling you that you can or should go for a ride in a NASCAR vehicle. He's telling you that you can and should do the things you want to do.

- He's not saying "I am over here and you are over there". He says "we". He's part of your ingroup; you're part of his.

- He's restricting the size of the group. That makes not only him, but YOU, part of an elite culture.

So let's go back to that group of CEOs.

"You know, my friend Joe recently got written up in Fortune for his new business methodology, and it's just always been his life's dream to get his ideas out there in front of the business world like that. That's really why we do what we do - unlike the guys who only care about the bottom line, we care about the whole industry, and what really makes the business world better."

Same four points. Do you really think it wouldn't work?

[nostih]

CD,

chill man. It's not that serious.


It's all good.


Ron

Originally Posted by CDarklock

No, you can't.

Information marketing is backwards. We've all heard "sell the sizzle, not the steak" - but information marketing promises a steak and delivers the sizzle.

"Hear that? That's steak!"

Yeah, but you can't eat it. We're not really delivering what we sell. That's why so many people are unhappy with it. That's why refund rates are so high. That's why people call it a scam and bad-mouth us everywhere as liars and cheats.

What makes John, Kevin, and Jeff different is they admit out of the gate that you have to work your arse off to get the steak. You don't just automatically get a steak when you hear the sizzle. There's work to be done.

It's clear to me that you don't understand what Kevin's doing in that blog post, so I'll clarify it for you.

- He's not bragging about how much money he has and what he does with it. He's showing you his friend having fun.

- He's not telling you that you can or should go for a ride in a NASCAR vehicle. He's telling you that you can and should do the things you want to do.

- He's not saying "I am over here and you are over there". He says "we". He's part of your ingroup; you're part of his.

- He's restricting the size of the group. That makes not only him, but YOU, part of an elite culture.

So let's go back to that group of CEOs.

"You know, my friend Joe recently got written up in Fortune for his new business methodology, and it's just always been his life's dream to get his ideas out there in front of the business world like that. That's really why we do what we do - unlike the guys who only care about the bottom line, we care about the whole industry, and what really makes the business world better."

Same four points. Do you really think it wouldn't work?

[Steve Diamond]

Hang in there, Marty. I'm with you.

I'm not saying anything about the ethics or the efficacy of anyone's method of selling to what they believe to be their target audience. But I do say that this method won't sell anything to me.

I don't want to know that I can get rich with your methods. I want to know something about how I can get rich with your methods. You know, is it about how to hire an army of ditch-diggers and find jobs for them? Is it about how to find and sign up sponsors for my next high altitude jump? (Two examples of things I wouldn't do, in case anyone was wondering.) Or is it about specific techniques for raising conversion rates on my existing sales pages? Surely you can tell me that much without giving away your secrets. If your sales material does nothing to enlighten me on that score, I'll hit delete or close the tab mighty fast.

[jasonl70]

When marketers show thier ferrari's, mansions, etc, they are targeting others who apsire to the same things they have attained. This is a valid market.

Some people want the life of leisure that Frank Kern goes out of his way to display, others want big houses and cool cars, and yet others can't fathom either and would be happy making a few extra grand a month. All are legitmate markets, and you can't be all things to all people.

[tommygadget]

Originally Posted by Marty S

I don't understand what you think I am wrong about when I say it doesn't work on me. It's like a fluff video to me, because I am in a spot where I ONLY have time for GURUS who can give me some real valuable advice in rather short order.

Marty, I think you missed what I'm saying. I said that when I cut out the fluff and showed people exactly what my service/product would do for them (target: you, the experienced marketer looking for USEFUL stuff), it BOMBED because there was no visualization of the prize, the end goal, the reward and so went the motivation. That's why you see the "sizzle" as others have said. I hope I was more clear this time.

TomG.

[Marty S]

Originally Posted by jasonl70

When marketers show thier ferrari's, mansions, etc, they are targeting others who apsire to the same things they have attained. This is a valid market.

Some people want the life of leisure that Frank Kern goes out of his way to display, others want big houses and cool cars, and yet others can't fathom either and would be happy making a few extra grand a month. All are legitmate markets, and you can't be all things to all people.

Marketing 101, thanks.

Back to the original question:

Is it just me or do you guys get doubtful about a marketer when all they can say is limited, urgent, important.. and show NOTHING of why we are actually watching?

[Mark Riddle]

To me the Ferraris yachts and mansions scream scam.

It's late night infomercial world for the get rich with no work crowd.

Personally I would rather watch a ShamWow, or the Pocket Fisherman, or the Showtime Rotisserie.

These are showing what you can do with the product,.

The Ferrari & the Mansion crowd does nothing for me to build the Know, Like, Trust quotient.

But I also understand that some people like hype, and blowhard slimy high pressure sales folk.

Is it just me or do you guys get doubtful about a marketer when all they can say is limited, urgent, important.. and show NOTHING of why we are actually watching?

Yes very doubtful, the ability to achieve success does not automatically translate to being able to convey your knowledge of how you became successful.

Mark Riddle

[ExRat]

Hi Marty,

Your question -

Is it just me or do you guys get doubtful about a marketer when all they can say is limited, urgent, important.. and show NOTHING of why we are actually watching?

I don't really understand the last bit, but regardless -

Quite early on, I gained enough experience to be able to judge who might provide something that was beneficial to me, and who might do my head in. So I avoid the latter. If I don't judge it correctly, I unsubscribe.

But you seem to want to suggest to these people that they change their approach to suit you -

NOTE to Gurus: if you send me a video, please just skip the hype BS, and tell me what you can do for me in the first 30 seconds. I am bright enough to see the potential in an idea or concept and if you can respect my time and intelligence, I am MUCH more likely to get involved with your list/product.

Why would you? Just unsubscribe. As mentioned above, you are not in their target demographic.

If you don't like the noise, press mute.

This topic comes up over and over and I just don't get it.

If you have advanced enough to a level where the hype and BS annoys you (which is a natural progression) then surely you have also advanced to a level where if necessary, you will happily continue with your business while NOT being subscribed to ANY email lists, not being taught by others, not buying educational products, not having your hand held etc...

You seem to suggest that you have advanced to that level here -

This may be a good strategy for hooking up newbies, but I have seen this all too often, with nothing to show for it except wasted time on re-rendered ideas.

So why complain? Whatever they can teach/sell you, you don't need it - they sell newbie products and teach newbie stuff - so why the angst?

Hi Ron,

Is there such a thing in which you sign up to a ezine and the ezine actually provides value......no sales, no "sponsered ads", nothing involving a sales pitch. Just good old fashioned value?

As mentioned above - Paul Myers.

[Marty S]

Originally Posted by ExRat

Hi Marty,

I don't really understand

I agree.

Really do you think I don't know how to unsubscribe? Priceless. :-)

[ExRat]

Hi Marty,

I agree.

Really do you think I don't know how to unsubscribe? Priceless. :-)

In that case (there was a little more to my reply) - the part I didn't understand was this undecipherable sentence -

and show NOTHING of why we are actually watching?

...perhaps you'd like to explain what you hoped to achieve with this thread?

[Nahar]

I really enjoy this thread because I see great points on both sides.

About a decade ago I was done with college and started looking for a job, but since I was a foreigner and without the "green card" nobody wanted to even interview me. So I got to watch quite a few of those multi-level marketing presentations. Every single one of them started with either a video showing how beautiful my mansion and Ferrari will be if I just pay a few hundred dollars today and join the scheme or a long testimonial which would always list the presenter's cars and vacation spots which were made possible by the company he/she was promoting.

I started thinking about joining one of those pyramids but then I went to another presentation and saw the same guy talking about this amazing selling internet connection scheme who just a few months earlier shared similar stories about the millions he had made selling some magic water filters to his grandmothers and aunts.

Needless to say: this kind of marketing does not appeal to me at all...

BUT...

I must agree with jasonl70 who among other smart things said:

Originally Posted by jasonl70

It doesn't matter what ANY of us think of him. What matters is if he can strike the right chord with enough people to generate sales, and he's figured out that what he "focus's on" seems to strike the right chord with enough people to make him millions from his efforts.

It's true - even though it might annoy some of us, if it isn't evil and works well - there is no point arguing that the guy is doing it wrong.

[ExRat]

Hi Nahar,

I started thinking about joining one of those pyramids

Needless to say: this kind of marketing does not appeal to me at all...

[hunty]

Originally Posted by Ian Jackson

Absolutely. Historically, I've had all this BS padding too, a lot in direct mailings from IM people like Andrew Reynolds and other people who've been under his tutelage. Not saying Andrew's not good at his vocation, quite the contrary, but the waffle is blinding.

I totally agree with what you are saying...I subscribed to mr Reynolds cash on demand course at $29 a month, and every module is filled with how much he earns and the lifestyle he has..I know he has done well and his teaching methods are very good....but do we really need to have the hype rammed down our throats..
All the limited and one time never to be repeated offers are all mindgames to get people to buy the products straight away.
What really makes me laugh is that if you exit the page on a lot of these one off offers, you tend to get a virtual agent offering you the product for less anyway????

[Andyhenry]

Wow, I just got to the end of this thread.

I was going to comment then I saw people starting to nit-pick each other and thought no, then I thought sod it


Marty - I think I'm with you on your general perspective on these marketing launches and promos.

I have no interest in someone telling me about their cars etc.. I just care about what are they selling and is it something that will save me time or money - or make me more money.

The only other important factor is who they are and what I think of them.

If I don't know them - I don't care what they say.

If I do know them - I don't care what they say (but this time I'll buy)


With someone like Andrew Fox, I've bought some stuff from him over the years and made money from it, so I'd open his email - but if I started watching a video and it was going on about the lifestyle stuff - I'd be skipping forward and trying to get the bit where it says what it is and how much they want for it.

So, while I understand the reason for putting the 'sizzle' there - I'm not its target audience so it just irritates me.

But some people want it so fair play to them.

Andy

[Nahar]

Originally Posted by ExRat

Hi Nahar,

This is what happened: The logic behind multi-level marketing scheme did make sense to me, but once I realized that actors were hired to lie about their life changing experiences and how joining the scheme resulted in them making millions and being able to spend all their time with their families, etc. - every time I hear someone bragging about his Ferrari, etc. I feel like I am being lied to.

But - I am also saying that if you do have a Ferrari and a big mansion and you know that displaying your wealth will appeal to the people you are targeting - you should definitely do it. That's all.

[rojo]

Yes it sucks, It totally shows the lack of real quality wen all that hard sales stuff is used. Time sensitive/scarcity make sense in some products and I actually purchase early wen software I want is being made available for a limited number of users (this is of course a sales tactic but remains good both for the seller and for the purchaser on many cases).

[hangtimenino]

I think each has his own idea of how to attract clients, and believe it or not, there are people who actually get attracted to these kinds of video that you are talking about.
It really depends on what works for you.

[Mike Hill]

Originally Posted by Marty S

You miss the point, as I am saying what works on me. I know there is going to be big love for any IMer I mention here, but his just came in today and it wasn't effective.

On the other hand, I got a few really good and helpful videos from StomperNet recently, just to let you know I am not out to bash your friend.

Yeah but here's the thing... You didn't like Andrews video and didn't buy nothing... You liked (loved) StomperNet's video but you still didn't buy nothing...

So what's the point...

Point is you are not the target market (obviously) and to say something isn't successful or doesn't work just because it didn't make you buy something is pretty lame... as you can clearly see you aren't even in the target market...

Truth is, those videos you be talking about DO WORK to the tune of hundreds of thousands of dollars.

Mike Hill

[Marty S]

Originally Posted by Mike Hill

Point is you are not the target market (obviously) and to say something isn't successful or doesn't work just because it didn't make you buy something is pretty lame... as you can clearly see you aren't even in the target market...

Mike Hill

What is pretty lame about your comment Mike is that I did not say it doesn't work, nor did I say it wasn't successful... I said it doesn't work on me. You may have noticed I have been trying to make that point, had you read a little closer.

The reference to a recent stompernet video is that they seem to be able to create videos without the over-the-top hype and are one of the most successful businesses EVER in pulling in new paying members.

[Mike Hill]

Originally Posted by Marty S

What is pretty lame about your comment Mike is that I did not say it doesn't work, nor did I say it wasn't successful... I said it doesn't work on me. You may have noticed I have been trying to make that point, had you read a little closer.

The reference to a recent stompernet video is that they seem to be able to create videos without the over-the-top hype and are one of the most successful businesses EVER in pulling in new paying members.

Quite frankly ... Who the hell cares then?? This whole thread is a lame duck... "Hey let's talk about what doesn't work on me..." Christ, you'd have thought you were the only one in the market...

What value does starting this thread bring then?

Mike Hill

[Marty S]

Research I suppose... To see if fellow marketers would support more videos (more often) that were more factual and to the point, rather than full of hype. I might be able to use that kind of information myself in the future.

Gee, was I supposed to have a bigger mission than this to create a thread here?

[Kevin Riley]

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