Good Girl With the Mouth of a Sailor

[Robert43]

Don't change a thing - unless YOU have a problem with it. The only one you have to answer to is yourself. If you have a formula, a style, and it's working ... don't mess with success. And certainly, don't over analyze the complaints of one person who may have been having a bad day, may just have a lousy sense of humor, or may have an obnoxious boss/husband/neighbor.
We like you just fine! Stay you!
Robert43

[sevenish]

I do best going mostly salt-free when it comes to client communications. My clients don't buy personality so much as they buy services and results, so I'm more comfortable maintaining a professional tenor with business communications to the degree possible.

Besides, it's just as easy to be colorful without the salt if you have adequate language skills (and clearly you do) ... in my opinion.

That said, I think you should do what YOU feel is right for your business, based upon what YOUR research and YOUR customers tell you.

Best wishes. and thanks for the great exercise in business writing style.

[JasetheAce]

I think you need to adapt to the market you are selling to. Look I am all for you being yourself but it comes down to what you wish to achieve. Making dollars is normally the bottom line. I may sound sexist but even though we are in the 21st century and I am far from being a saint but women swearing is still more alarming than when men swear. Good luck though.

[joan007]

Tiffany,

I have read several of your posts and I think you are a very talented lady. If you are a Christian and the Holy Spirit truly lives in you, you will know exactly what to say and do. Just keep your wit and humor and abandoned all vulgarity. People will love you work.

[Marian]

Originally Posted by joan007

Tiffany,

I have read several of your posts and I think you are a very talented lady. If you are a Christian and the Holy Spirit truly lives in you, you will know exactly what to say and do. Just keep your wit and humor and abandoned all vulgarity. People will love you work.

I agree with that. You're not going to offend anyone when you don't say those bad words... and if you need - there are lots of vocabularies, thesaurus, dictionaries online you can replace them :-)

I've read excellent reports and ebooks - without a need for such words. You don't need that, IMHO.

Marian

[Anna Johnson]

Hey Tiff,

One thing I would add to this discussion - and your thinking about this issue - is not to confuse the results of the poll with your customer base. In my case I voted for 'keep it clean and G rated' before I read your post and discovered the context. I simply applied the question to myself and voted in accordance with how I do business. Swearing doesn't come naturally to me so it would be 'fake' for me to start using it in my own products and marketing.

In your case, however, swearing is part of how you talk/write. I'll leave the argument over whether or not it's a shortcut or an easy option to others. But let me reiterate that you already have customers who like and buy from you for who you are. The people who voted in this poll are not your customers. We are giving you our opinions on the matter, but the more important indicator is your results.

So all the talk of being professional and businesslike is somewhat moot - you're already doing well, so what is the issue? Yes, a valued customer expressed her concerns and you took action to provide her with an alternative solution. Kudos to you for doing that and it looks like she really appreciates what you did. Maybe you will do that again some day (don't we all sometimes go beyond the call of duty for our most valued clients?) but that doesn't mean you should change who you are, how you do your business or start creating alternative versions of your products.

If what works for you... works for you... why change?

Finally, to everyone: I do think issues like this go beyond 'business'. As has been pointed out many times, Tiffany is doing just fine, so the argument that using profanity is hurting her business doesn't wash.

But let's assume she really is leaving money on the table by using profanity... at the end of the day, she is being herself. Is there really anything more important than being who you truly are? I mean, haven't we all made decisions in our lives when we've opted not to go with a sure money maker... because it wasn't who we are? I know I have, and this may be another example of that.

So, once again, be who you are Tiff.

[Michael Oksa]

Hi Anna,

Just wanted to clear up a finer point...

Tiffany is doing just fine, so the argument that using profanity is hurting her business doesn't wash.

In my comments I was saying that foul language comes across as unprofessional. However, I never suggested that it was hurting her business. They're two separate issues (at least in my mind).

~Michael

[Michele Miller]

Aw Tiff, I feel your pain. I swear a lot. I do try to keep it out of my business though, and the most I would say is probably the word "crap", but the words you used, "kissing ass" wouldn't be offensive to me, but to some people.....

Put it this way, if you don't swear, you will keep everyone happy, and if you do swear, you'll always wonder if you offended anyone. (I'm talking about your business here, not your personal life). God knows I couldn't stop swearing completely. If I had to put a dollar in a jar for everytime I swear in my own personal life I'd need to find a five gallon bucket so that I could empty it out every day, a jar just wouldn't cut it.

I followed that link to the ittybiz site, and I laughed hysterically at the tattoo story, I must go back and read more.

Take care,

Michele

[Wakunahum]

I think marketers should use whatever language they want.

If it's too foul, crude, sexual, gross, etc., they may suffer the consequence of losing out on some sales.

But hey maybe someone doesn't care about the potential lost sales and just wants to be themselves which is fine.

If I happen to be offended, I guess I'll stop reading/buying.

[new2ebiz]

I agree with Kevin and Katie and Jenn, etc. on this. To me, it's business.

Especially "Kay said it perfectly: Quote:
You will never lose a customer because you DON"T use WTF, kiss ass or similar terms. "
or
"It's more like a word-fog that keeps people from seeing you clearly." Beautiful prose, btw.

I'm not perfect either; I let 'one fly' every once in awhile. In the past, as a suicide prevention counselor I'd sometimes used a 'choice word' to get the attention of a client, but they soon learned I'd ask for clarification if they used 'foggy words with no meaning' in our sessions.

And what parent hasn't heard or seen their child repeat something they've seen at home, only to go 'oops, I did not think they saw/heard that'.

I find most cuss words have lost any 'real' meaning if they ever had one; they don't make a point, especially in a business product.

At the very least, warn your customers up front if your book includes something that might be offensive to them. And since you said your market is a Christian audience, you come across more professional when you 'stick to business'. Don't bother with two versions.

On the other hand, even if your market demographic is made of people who find such language 'ok'; I'd still use cuss words o n l y when they were useful to the point you're making.
Afterall, what is it you're trying to accomplish? Who is your audience/readership?

Why take a chance? Business is business.

[KenStrong]

Originally Posted by new2ebiz

In the past, as a suicide prevention counselor I'd sometimes used a 'choice word' to get the attention of a client

So what's wrong with doing the same thing to get the attention of a prospect? No one here is suggesting that anyone cuss in every sentence... the idea is to use it sparingly and effectively (IF you use it)...

And since you said your market is a Christian audience

She doesn't say that anywhere... go back and read the thread.

[TheGodfather]

my take on this is to be as natural sounding as any John / Jane Doe... If they get offended by a few crude jokes or some bad language then they aren't worth doing business with, they are probably fooling themselves. They can't all be the "Ned Flanders" type...

On the other hand, if you're selling some religious crap to that kind of crowd namely priests and such, then you might consider tuning it down a tad bit... but sound as natural as you can...

[2frog]

You're serious about your business, right? So, what's wrong with being "professional"? Your products can be chock-full of personality without including any curse words. It's not that hard, really. It's just like any other profession, be yourself, be engaging and fun, but if you use words that some might deem offensive, you are alienating potential customers.

Look at the flip side. Are you going to alienate any potential customers by NOT using any curse words? Seems unlikely. I think it's kind of silly when people think using profanity gives them "personality". Anyways, look at your poll results and I think you'll agree.

[Elmer Hurlstone]

Tiff,

As much as it pains me, I'll have to go along with Kevin on this one. I'm less pained agreeing with Michael Oksa and the others that said profanity is generally unprofessional in written products.

It's highly unlikely anyone will ever get pissed at you for failing to use "bad language" in your stuff. On the other hand since one person called you on it it's likely others are thinking the same as she.

A couple decades back I spent a few years in Toastmasters. During our weekly meetings we had person designated as an "ah counter". This persons job was to drop a marble into a tin can each time a speaker used "ah, um, uh" or some other verbal place holder. For some profanity becomes such a place holder. In speech it's impossible to retract; in writing much easier.

I don't think you'll be "less yourself" if you don't cuss while writing.

Of course if the carriage pops off your typewriter and lands on your foot upon hitting return feel free to colorfully express yourself. We'll understand.

Elmer

PS. My late father served 22 years in His Majesty's Merchant Marine. I learned from a master.

[Michael Oksa]

Originally Posted by Elmer Hurlstone

Of course if the carriage pops off your typewriter and lands on your foot upon hitting return feel free to colorfully express yourself. We'll understand.

Carriage?

Typewriter?

Return?

What next? Ribbon? Platen?



For those too young to remember...

Online Typewriter Manual 1

Also, there was a time when CDs had two sides, were black, and about 12 inches in diameter.

~Michael

[WritingMadwoman]

LOL Michael, reminds me of this story I saw today:

13-year-old's remarks on 30-year-old Walkman


Wendy

[Kay King]

Tiff -

You asked for opinions - and you sure got them! Whatever you do, it'll be fine. Your personality shows through in this thread - without a single "bleep".

kay

[Sirius Lin]

Hi Tiffany,

IMHO, if I wanted a copy written, I'd look for a writer with his/her own style as opposed to something generic. You definitely have your own unique, recognisable writing style, so I don't see the need to change. After all, it won't be you after that!

You may want to consider adding a little caveat or something on the pages where you offer your writing service, though, to let your clients know ahead of time that they might see a colourful word or 2. So if they want their writing to be strictly G-rated, they need to specify it.

Warmest regards,
Sirius

[TiffanyDow]

Originally Posted by Sirius Lin

Hi Tiffany,

IMHO, if I wanted a copy written, I'd look for a writer with his/her own style as opposed to something generic. You definitely have your own unique, recognisable writing style, so I don't see the need to change. After all, it won't be you after that!

You may want to consider adding a little caveat or something on the pages where you offer your writing service, though, to let your clients know ahead of time that they might see a colourful word or 2. So if they want their writing to be strictly G-rated, they need to specify it.

Warmest regards,
Sirius

Oh I would never cuss in a client's project unless they tell me to ahead of time (which they have). lol

[morwanneg]

Since you are in a business, try to please everybody though i'ts hard. Customer is always right as they say, so for them to like not only your product but your attitude, try to be gentle in words. Your attitude may reflect to your product so better make a good impression.

[discrat]

Okay here is the way I look at this whole issue. I cuss, although with a new Baby I am cutting back. But I say the F-word in conversation with my Wife and other Close people on an everyday basis.

But to me using Profanity in any way , shape ,or form in front of people I do not personally know or to total strangers is just flat out Disrespectful. For one thing, if I subscribed to your Newsletter or I am getting info. about your Products you are selling.....well you dont know me from Adam.
So why would you ASSUME that you can start using profanity laced conversation with me ??
It is just very unflattering, totally unprofessional, and disrespectful to make ASSUMPTIONS like this.
And sure if our business relationship turned into a friendship and we got to know each other, then yeah I would love to shoot the shirt with ya !!

But quite honestly, saying that 'im just being myself' is an easy but in my view flawed way to look at things in life. !! Heck, if that was the case I would be drinking beer at Church or having Sex with my Wife at the Public Pool. Point is there is a time and place for everything and all matters of Living Life and being yourself is based on context and discretion.

So I would have to say Thanks but NO thanks to anymore continued dialogue with you. Just based on your lack of respect and a false ASSUMPTION that you THINK its alright to use profanity around me !!!

[Li Weng]

Originally Posted by AfteraDream

Look at Frank Kern... a lot of people like him and he uses profanity all the time. For me, I cuss too alot, and when I see others using some profanity at the right time and the right place it's great and funny.

I've noticed the only occasion where he uses profanities
(and lots of it) is when he's communicating face-to-face
in a live seminar environment, and he doesn't come out
and start cussing right away, he cleverly sets the stage
for it.

And the thing is, Kern can afford to use profanities because
he's totally branded and anchored himself to this character
where it's OK in the minds of his customers that he uses
them. (he said that himself in a seminar)

Nevertheless, there's almost zero profanity in his emails and
the actual content of his products.

So I'd say profanity is okay in your marketing IF that's consistent
with your personal branding. But it's not necessary nor appropriate
in the actual content of your product.

[Nigel Greaves]

Originally Posted by Kevin Riley

Anyone who's talked with me on a personal level - like Craig Desorcy, James Allen, James Brown, Ken Leatherman, John Rogers, Elmer Hurlstone, Michael Brown, John Mann to name a few - know that I have a very harsh vocabulary. Hey, I grew up on a ranch and worked in construction. To me, the F word is a noun, verb, adjective, adverb, and has a few more uses in the English language.

However, I am often appalled at the language in IMer's products. I just don't find it professional. And Tiffany, that includes the term "kissing ass". In a gritty interview or a special report, it could belong - but not in a product.

I have to say I agree with you Kevin. I'm no prude, and can use language appropriate to the conversation to say the least, but I wouldn't dream of using bad language in a business context. Maybe that's me but I believe the majority of people would find it "jars" them and distracts from the message you're trying to get across. It also leaves an impression you may not intend or want to make.

Let me give you an example of what I mean. About a year ago I bought a WSO from Naomi Dunford and was stunned at her language. She's a talented and witty writer who doesn't need to use obscenities but in that product she allowed it to get in the way of her message. So much so that when I read her name or her sites name I immediately think "obscene language". A shame because, as I say, she's a very talented writer but in that instance she conditioned me to think of her in one particular way that persists even a year later.

Nigel

[ken_p]

i would say, go for the second one. it would only show, how versatile you are, and what you are willing to do for your clients.
I have no problem with bad girls, but some people do. So at least they got a choice.
have fun!

[Jon Steel]

It is simple as this:

Profanity offends some people, but clean language offends no one. And if you want to make as many sales as possible, you want to offend the least amount of people. So there you have it.

js