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What's with all the single opt-in sites?!

by markowe
28 replies
So many sites are single opt-in - know how I know? Because I am constantly getting signed up for various mom-and-pop-type sites by someone (or more than one someone) with a very similar Gmail address as me, and I get all these mailings which I would otherwise have not, had there been a double opt-in (I would've just ignored the confirmation email).

If you think double opt-in will somehow lose you signups, I urge you to think again - is that worse than annoying complete strangers who have no interest in your site?
#optin #single #sites
  • Profile picture of the author NK
    At the same time double opt-ins can cost you sales, which is why most people go with single opt-in. That is the tradeoff - whether you want more chance at a sale, which have you end up with a bulkier, less responsive list, or a leaner list that builds at a much slower pace and lost income.
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  • Profile picture of the author WillR
    Originally Posted by markowe View Post

    I urge you to think again - is that worse than annoying complete strangers who have no interest in your site?
    Would I rather get more people on my list at the small cost of annoying a few people who would never have visited my site anyway? Honestly, yes. I'm not doing anything wrong. Can't help it if some goose signs up a random person. So long as your email has all the Can Sam compliant parts then it's no issue any way.

    I use single optin and am not about to stop anytime soon. When you are paying for traffic you are going to waste a lot of your money using double optin.
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  • Profile picture of the author Valdor Kiebach
    single optin is fine as long as the first response is message like 'someone has used this email address to sign up for bla at bla on [date] from ip xxx.

    If this was not you or you wish to unsubscribe then click here [unsub link]'

    This way you are covering yourself against those who are using a false address.
    Otherwise you could risk being blacklisted as a spammer.
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    • Profile picture of the author Jtraits
      Originally Posted by Valdor Kiebach View Post

      single optin is fine as long as the first response is message like 'someone has used this email address to sign up for bla at bla on [date] from ip xxx.

      If this was not you or you wish to unsubscribe then click here [unsub link]'

      This way you are covering yourself against those who are using a false address.
      Otherwise you could risk being blacklisted as a spammer.
      This. Keep that in mind that you can be listed as a spammer and then more or less, the game is over for what you have been building so far.
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      • Profile picture of the author WillR
        Originally Posted by Jtraits View Post

        This. Keep that in mind that you can be listed as a spammer and then more or less, the game is over for what you have been building so far.
        You can be listed as a spammer just as easily with double optin.

        All it takes is a few people not recognizing one of your messages (or not liking the content) and marking it as spam.

        Look around. Everyone is using single optin nowadays. Do what works.
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        • Profile picture of the author Robert Puddy
          Originally Posted by WillR View Post

          You can be listed as a spammer just as easily with double optin.

          All it takes is a few people not recognizing one of your messages (or not liking the content) and marking it as spam.

          Look around. Everyone is using single optin nowadays. Do what works.

          hmmm except that the ones peed off like the poster are inclined to report you for spam and get you blacklisted. and I don't mean marking it as spam either I mean actually reporting to your isp, or worse still too godaddy if that's where your domains are.

          And with evidence that it was sent to the wrong email address, and totally unsolicited
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    • Profile picture of the author Sid Hale
      Hi Valdor,

      Read what you just wrote...


      Originally Posted by Valdor Kiebach View Post

      single optin is fine as long as the first response is message like 'someone has used this email address to sign up for bla at bla on [date] from ip xxx.

      If this was not you or you wish to unsubscribe then click here [unsub link]'
      That is a confirmation email - and in effect, a double opt-in.

      Instead of clicking to confirm... you're asking the reader to click if they don't want to confirm
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  • Profile picture of the author Brent Stangel
    is that worse than annoying complete strangers who have no interest in your site?
    How would I be annoying them? I didn't sign them up. If they have a problem it's with the person who signed them up.
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    • Profile picture of the author Jeff Schuman
      One trick to making money online is being an Internet marketing spy. Look at what the people who are making the most money they are doing and emulate them. When I see the top sites using single opt in forms that is a clue. Join their list, study their email messages, and use similar strategies yourself including building lists with single opt in.
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    • Profile picture of the author JohnnyPlan
      Originally Posted by Brent Stangel View Post

      How would I be annoying them? I didn't sign them up. If they have a problem it's with the person who signed them up.
      And, not your fault either.

      Aren't the IP addresses tracked for a person signing up? So, if someone is signing up a bunch of random strangers (with their emails) to your list, you would have access to that and could report it to their ISP. If this is not a current feature on your email autoresponder provider, I'd say, find one where it is.
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  • Profile picture of the author Valdor Kiebach
    Higher risk of being labled a spammer with single optin I would have thought.
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  • Profile picture of the author wiifm
    A simpler solution is go right for a low cost impulse sale, then there is no opt-in at all and you can legally follow up.
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  • Profile picture of the author masterjani
    These days it is best to have single optin because people don't have time to verify again and again. Just unsubscribe or create a filter to disallow those mails.
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  • Profile picture of the author bogomil22
    I also think that single opt-in has more pluses than double opt-in...So, if you want more sales, you should use single opt-in, but this doesn't mean that you have to spam your subscribers with stupid and useless products. If you want customers for life, it is better for you to be sure that you are offering only valuable products.
    And also people have head and should use it when they decide to opt in, not to complain after that and also not to forget that there is always a unsubscribe button which they can click every second.
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    • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
      Originally Posted by Brent Stangel View Post

      How would I be annoying them? I didn't sign them up. If they have a problem it's with the person who signed them up.
      Classic mistake, confusing logic with humanity.

      When an email shows up in their box, they aren't going to blame the guy who signed them up. They're going to blame the guy who sent it.

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      • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Valdor Kiebach View Post

        Higher risk of being labled a spammer with single optin I would have thought.
        Not so much, I think, Valdor: people "reporting spam" typically don't even remember whether they originally confirmed their email address when they opted in, much less allow themselves to be influenced by that.

        We need yet another thread discussing the relative advantages and disadvantages of email address confirmation on opt-in like we need a hole in the head. Not least because many (if not most) of the "arguments" adduced in favor of confirmed opt-in are based on logical fallacies and misunderstandings. It was all pretty comprehensively covered in this thread (and in 100 others): http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...ml#post8554418

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        • Profile picture of the author Robert Puddy
          Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

          Not so much, I think, Valdor: people "reporting spam" typically don't even remember whether they originally confirmed their email address when they opted in, much less allow themselves to be influenced by that.

          We need yet another thread discussing the relative advantages and disadvantages of email address confirmation on opt-in like we need a hole in the head. Not least because many (if not most) of the "arguments" adduced in favor of confirmed opt-in are based on logical fallacies and misunderstandings. It was all pretty comprehensively covered in this thread (and in 100 others): http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...ml#post8554418

          .
          I don't agree with you Alexa I have been threatened with having all my sites closed down over one person crying spam to my hosting provider, and once I showed them it was double optin they let it go.

          But if I hadn't been able to prove proper mail management I would have been in the crapper
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          • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
            Banned
            Originally Posted by Robert Puddy View Post

            I have been threatened with having all my sites closed down over one person crying spam to my hosting provider
            If you will use GoDaddy, Bob ...

            (I do take your point, of course: you can be better placed with your service providers, in the event of an argument, if you've confirmed the opt-ins. But seriously, that is a very well-known GoDaddy trick that I think no other host would try to pull: hearing that story, I'm confident, without asking, that you were hosting at GoDaddy. ).

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            • Profile picture of the author Robert Puddy
              Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

              If you will use GoDaddy, Bob ...

              (I do take your point, of course: you can be better placed with your service providers, in the event of an argument, if you've confirmed the opt-ins. But seriously, that is a very well-known GoDaddy trick that I think no other host would try to pull: hearing that story, I'm confident, without asking, that you were hosting at GoDaddy. ).

              .
              You'd be wrong

              I wouldn't (and have never) touch GD with a 10 ft barge pole.

              Though I am currently doing some research on the list building criteria right now, your not the only one who makes the argument for single optin.

              So I'm doing some scratching around finding out the latest thinking on it... I will report back
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              • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
                Banned
                Originally Posted by Robert Puddy View Post

                I wouldn't (and have never) touch GD with a 10 ft barge pole.
                Fair enough: I apologise unreservedly for the aspersion-casting, in that case!

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          • Profile picture of the author WillR
            Originally Posted by Robert Puddy View Post

            I don't agree with you Alexa I have been threatened with having all my sites closed down over one person crying spam to my hosting provider, and once I showed them it was double optin they let it go.

            But if I hadn't been able to prove proper mail management I would have been in the crapper
            Single optin is just fine. I have a record of all people who have joined my lists also. It shows the time and date, their location, IP address, etc. Exactly the same information I would have if they had joined a double optin list. That is more than enough proof for me to give to any hosting company, etc that had any issues.

            But let's face it. I've been running single optin lists for years now and never had one issue. I also know a ton of other marketers using single optin and have never heard if any issues like this at all.

            The reality is what you are talking about can happen whether you are using double optin or single optin. They are still going to be getting that first email from someone they do not know. Provided you keep the correct records, which almost all autoresponder companies force you to do anyway, then you'll be just fine.
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            • Profile picture of the author millionairesandie
              Originally Posted by Brent Stangel View Post

              How would I be annoying them? I didn't sign them up. If they have a problem it's with the person who signed them up.
              Who is this mystery person? They don't know WHO that person is. All they know is that they don't recognize your name, email, subject, etc So they're going to hit spam because they're thinking their email was sold to someone. They're not going to read & see anything that says "you signed up on such and such date with such and such email from IP such and such." Even if they did, most aren't going to take the time to track down WHO that IP belongs to.


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  • Profile picture of the author Rageki
    I think single opt in is better. If subscribers are annoy by my email, they have an unsubscribe option.
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  • Profile picture of the author Raydal
    Originally Posted by markowe View Post

    So many sites are single opt-in - know how I know? Because I am constantly getting signed up for various mom-and-pop-type sites by someone (or more than one someone) with a very similar Gmail address as me, and I get all these mailings which I would otherwise have not, had there been a double opt-in (I would've just ignored the confirmation email).
    What makes you so sure that is the reason? I get spammed all the time
    and usually from businesses using the same self-hosted autoresponder script.
    This I know is deliberate because they usually have the unsubscribe link
    waaaaay to the bottom after some empty space between.

    -Ray Edwards
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  • Profile picture of the author parushing
    The best way to not have to worry about your sites being taken down by a hosting company is be your own hosting company. Get a box to host your money on and stop relying on cheap ass cpanel hosting. If you you are going to be in business operate like one.

    Hint: "Own your shit then you don't have to worry about a hosting provider shutting you down.."
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    • Profile picture of the author kpmedia
      Originally Posted by parushing View Post

      The best way to not have to worry about your sites being taken down by a hosting company is be your own hosting company. Get a box to host your money on and stop relying on cheap ass cpanel hosting. If you you are going to be in business operate like one.
      Hint: "Own your shit then you don't have to worry about a hosting provider shutting you down.."
      If you're a spammer, then the datacenter will shut you down. Or confiscate the IP space.

      I'm not sure I'd call cPanel "cheap" either. When set up well (CloudLinx, Litespeed/nginx, Varnish, Idera bnackups, etc), then the server softaware setup alone can run about $100-200. That's not including the hardware or colo costs.
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  • Profile picture of the author ibugu
    I have noticed that single optin seems to be increasing.
    Put the stray ones on your list and save the email.
    That will protect YOU from a spam complaint.
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  • Profile picture of the author talfighel
    When you take a look at the TOP marketers in the world, they use single opt ins rather then double.

    At the same time, there are other very successful marketers who use double opt ins.

    So really, you have to see what works better for you as the email marketer. Track both and see which works best for you to get more open rates and sales.
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