Virtual Dedicated Servers, Assisted Plans, Administrators, Cost

[Charles Harper]

I am running an application that the creator tells me is likely to overload a shared host.

So I looked into getting a virtual dedicated server with GoDaddy where I am a reseller.

They tell me that even if I am technologically astute, that I should not mess with a server unless I have an administrator.

There is a difference in price between the assistant plan (with GoDaddy Adminstering) and just a virtual dedicated server.

Is my only option to pay the $245/mo for 50GB and 2000GB bandwidth for the assistance with a dedicated server?

Or are there other options totally outside of my scope?

I am interested in what some who really knows...thinks about this?

Charles

[jasonvthomas]

Hi
A VPS hosting, is good enough, It is like a dedicated server itself. You will get a master WHM panel and a Cpanel.

They tell me that even if I am technologically astute, that I should not mess with a server unless I have an administrator.

That is crap. You will learn about webhosting, dont think its too complicated. basically nothing much happens to it. Even if you need to make any settings changes there are tons of help that you could use.

Try this: http://www.hostican.com/index.php

And the price they are selling it here is awesome. I bet if anyone can find me a VPS hosting with this amount of space and bandwidth for a cheaper cost than this, say : 45 Gb with 2k Gb for $44 a month.

[stsnelson]

A VPS is the way to go. While HostICan is okay (was with them for a year) I decided to go with ServInt. Do your homework and make the best decision for your business.

[Charles Harper]

Well, if I did not go with their assistance plan it would be $50/mo for 20gb and 1000gb bandwidth.

Charles

Originally Posted by Charles Harper

I am running an application that the creator tells me is likely to overload a shared host.

So I looked into getting a virtual dedicated server with GoDaddy where I am a reseller.

They tell me that even if I am technologically astute, that I should not mess with a server unless I have an administrator.

There is a difference in price between the assistant plan (with GoDaddy Adminstering) and just a virtual dedicated server.

Is my only option to pay the $245/mo for 50GB and 2000GB bandwidth for the assistance with a dedicated server?

Or are there other options totally outside of my scope?

I am interested in what some who really knows...thinks about this?

Charles

Stay away from VPS it is not the same as dedicated...

Go to hostgator dedicated is $174.00 a month + the servers are secure and up-to-date unlike godaddy's out of date servers... You do NOT need to hire no admin ....

James

[rhelaine]

VPS might be good but you need to be sure what kind of load your app will put on the server.

VPS might be good but if the cpu power is limited you will find yourself in the same predicament very quickly.

you need to know how much power you need...

do some test to determine that...if you can pm me i will guide you though the process if you want

[Charles Harper]

In all actuality, the Bro. said that I needed dedicated. He did not say virtual. I assumed that it was the same in terms of quality except it was virtual and maybe had two or three people versus one person. I guess from what I can tell it does not.

When you say GoDaddy's dedicated servers are out of date, does that really make a big difference? I can get them cheaper as a reseller.

Charles

[ikontent]

Originally Posted by Charles Harper

Or are there other options totally outside of my scope?

I am interested in what some who really knows...thinks about this?

Charles

Charles : Here's my 2 cents.

If you are going to use either a server or a VPS, you need to consider who will take care of setting up the OS / customizing the software / doing the security hardening, updating patches etc.

Broadly, the "unmanaged" option requires YOU (or your representative) to do this.
In the "managed" option, the provider does all this, and gives you the Cpanel / WHM access.
There are some "semi-managed" offers that have part of this, but not all.

YOUR OPTIONS :
1) Go with a single "managed" provider (I don't particularly like Godaddy for hosting, but one man's meat..) In general, pricing for this is much higher for the "bundle" of services.

Or - go unmanaged and

2) There are several people / organizations that offer server management services; they will take care of the nitty gritty. Rates start from $25 per month per server, and are quite good.
3) There are also services that you can contract with for a "per task" basis and not necessarily a per-month basis.

Let me know if you are looking for recommendations; I know a few people who do a decent job on this.

Originally Posted by jasonvthomas

And the price they are selling it here is awesome. I bet if anyone can find me a VPS hosting with this amount of space and bandwidth for a cheaper cost than this, say : 45 Gb with 2k Gb for $44 a month.

Check out Fdcservers - they have a VPS offering with 300GB space / 10Mbps unmetered bandwidth (approx 3300 GB), free Cpanel WHM, at 39.95 per month.

Unmanaged, of course.

Do I win the bet? And what's the reward in the first place?

[MikeAmbrosio]

Originally Posted by Charles Harper

Is my only option to pay the $245/mo for 50GB and 2000GB bandwidth for the assistance with a dedicated server?

GoDaddy wants to charge you $245 per month for a dedicated server with ONLY 50 GB and 2000GB bandwidth???

Ouch.

I got my dedicated server in '06 from LiquidWeb:

120 GB hard drive
4000 GB bandwidth
Fully Managed

I pay $234/month

There are much better deals out there perhaps, but Liquidweb after 3+ years, I have never had downtime longer than 2 - 3 minutes and their support is second to none. I get ticket responses within 5 minutes on average.

Also, do NOT get self-managed unless you know servers. ikontent is right on the money there. Fully Managed does NOT mean they simply run your WHM. They keep your server up to date and secure.

Time to grow Charles

Mike

[xiaophil]

Hi Charles,

I don't understand how people can make recommendations when we haven't yet discovered what your requirements are.

The words Dedicated and VPS don't reflect the capabilities of the machines involved, they just describe different configurations.

Servers are generally specified by CPU, RAM, Disk space and Bandwidth.

The creator of your app will be able to tell you the resources required to comfortably run your app and any margin for growth. That's probably the best place to start.

Once you have a spec then it will be easier to evaluate the various deals available, such as some of the options above.

Self-managed usually means a raw Linux install and root prompt after which you're left to your own devices, so for ease of use it is probably a good idea to get something with a control panel.

Another option is slice hosting - a kind of VPS where you can begin with a small, low-cost slice and quickly and easily add more as your needs require.

The starting point though is probably to work out the server requirements with your app developer.

Best Regards,

[rhelaine]

in all honnesty....a coder is the last person i would ask about server specification. companies have different departments for testing and coding for a reason.

Usually a few relatively simple test can help you size your server.

As for the slices it great...but must be careful and check the price very closely. some company have small price for a couple of slices and they charge and arm and a leg for more.

Originally Posted by Charles Harper

In all actuality, the Bro. said that I needed dedicated. He did not say virtual. I assumed that it was the same in terms of quality except it was virtual and maybe had two or three people versus one person. I guess from what I can tell it does not.

When you say GoDaddy's dedicated servers are out of date, does that really make a big difference? I can get them cheaper as a reseller.

Charles

Charles,
A out of date server makes a huge different.. Not only does godaddy have one of the worst control panels around but I have seen servers not updated since 2001.. This is not only a huge security risk but that server will not be able to run latest scripts. Godaddy is the worst hosting company online.. Cheap or not, remember you get what you pay for..

Dedicated is a world of a difference from vps and dedicated gives you more control over your server. It also normally allows more abuse..lol

Charles, as a website developer for over 15 years I will say this if your script is so resource intensive then maybe it was not coded properly... I have no idea what script you have but I have built the most advanced freebie incentive scripts on the market and it will run under a reseller plan easily.

To rhelaine - Wrong, a coder should know his/her script better than anyone and should know exactly what it takes to run it. I am not talking about some wannabe coder that slaps free open source code together and calls himself a coder... I mean a real coder, if they built the script then they are fully aware of what it takes to run it.

James

[xiaophil]

Originally Posted by rhelaine

in all honnesty....a coder is the last person i would ask about server specification. companies have different departments for testing and coding for a reason.

Usually a few relatively simple test can help you size your server.

What a curious reply.

So you're saying the software creator can't figure out the resource requirements of their own application and is also incapable of running these simple tests of which you speak.

I know you're in a hurry to beat yesterday's post count (25 right?) but I have a suggestion for next time: take a deep breath, wipe your chin and put a bit of thought into it.

[jasonvthomas]

Check out Fdcservers - they have a VPS offering with 300GB space / 10Mbps unmetered bandwidth (approx 3300 GB), free Cpanel WHM, at 39.95 per month.

Unmanaged, of course.

Do I win the bet? And what's the reward in the first place?

Thanks for the tip, i really wanted to find out something more cheaper for myself, thats why that message on my post. You win handsdown, No first price though, But I really appreciate you sharing the link.

I bet if somebody can beat this price though!

[seasoned]

Originally Posted by rhelaine

in all honnesty....a coder is the last person i would ask about server specification. companies have different departments for testing and coding for a reason.

Usually a few relatively simple test can help you size your server.

As for the slices it great...but must be careful and check the price very closely. some company have small price for a couple of slices and they charge and arm and a leg for more.

WOW, have you even DEALT with such companies? ******I HAVE*****!!!!!! Some are the some of the largest companies in their INDUSTRIES! Most of the testers are IDIOTS and CREATE problems that won't occur, etc.... Granted, some of the coders aren't too bright either(one reason they are called CODERS), but most are a lot brighter than the testers.

THE person that wrote it is the most likely to know if there is a bad query, a table scan, etc.... which means PROBLEMS with shared servers and VPS, or if it needs special libraries or permissions, that will caused problems with shared servers.

And NO, a relatively simple test usually WON'T help you size your server, UNLESS provided by astute users, experience, or the author!

Steve

[Paul Myers]

Mike's option sounds good.

I personally have accounts with Verio, with managed dedicated servers at $300/mo. The tech support for them is absolutely the best I've ever gotten from any hosting company, and I've used quite a few.

You need to be really careful with a VPS, as they tend not to have the necessary number of processes, amount of RAM, CPU cycles or bandwidth for a lot of "heavy" applications. I had one that ground to a halt on a regular (more than once daily) basis doing nothing but spam filtering on the inbound email load.

The same daily email load is roughly 5 minutes worth of the capability of the basic dedicated server type I use. And one of the addresses on that system sees over 20,000 delivery attempts daily, at last count. (100% spam to that address at this point.)

There have been problems, but those will happen with any host. The key, for me, is how they handle it when problems occur. Verio has been absolutely wonderful about that. I've given them, I think, 3 or 4 testimonials for their tech support, and I've asked more than once to talk to a supervisor to tell them how good the rep I'd just spoken with was.

Their FreeBSD and Linux dedicated servers are rock solid. Linux is preferred for most IM-type apps. FreeBSD is much better in terms of resource usage, especially processes and RAM.

Note the absence of affiliate links.


Paul

[seasoned]

VPS is a *******SHARED******* server, for purposes of this discussion! ALL VPS buys you is the ability to "manage your own server"! So you appear to have root access, can set up scripts, but do NOT have stable resources! For this, you get ALL the problems and almost NONE of the benefits!

By the way. Godaddy is one of the most expensive companies out there! THIS is how they can sell domain names that are so cheap. SURE, it LOOKS low. Look at how things will expand, and figure out what your price will be!!!!

BTW it is amazing that some of these people even responded! GOD, WANT TO BE CONFUSED? Ask on a public forum! I can tell you that I know about servers, VPS, Shared accounts, Programming, and YEP, I EVEN once priced several companies, which included godaddy! Godaddy is FINE for domain names, though they STILL take too many liberties. They are OK for SSL certs. Otherwise, STAY AWAY!!!!!! Too much trouble, too high a price, and their support on domain names STINKS, so I doubt other support could be any better!

OH, and so there is no confusion, I thought I posted this earlier. It is only coincidence that paul posted between them. He, like some others here, wrote a nice meaningful post.

Steve

[Paul Myers]

Steve,

some of the coders aren't too bright either(one reason they are called CODERS)

[SPLORF!]

That may well be the funniest thing I've read in a week.


Paul (taking notes for the next geekfest)

[seasoned]

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

Steve,[SPLORF!]

That may well be the funniest thing I've read in a week.


Paul (taking notes for the next geekfest)

Yeah, programmers USED to do it ALL! THEN they had analysts! God, the use of terms has just gotten CRAZY! In my last interview for a job, they called into question my ability to do conversions. "It isn't on your resume....". I had to explain to them that, as a programmer, I had to interface with other systems, and convert data from previous systems, etc... In fact, I have done more conversions than most!

So when I hear "coder", I have to wonder if that doesn't simply mean one that types things in in the proper syntax.....

Told ....

If the employees salary is less than 10000 then increment the counter

Writes ....

if ($employees_salary<10000){$counter++;}

A monkey could conceivably do THAT.

Steve

[rhelaine]

in my experience both the small coder and big companies under estimate the resources needed for their app to run...always has been.

I spent countless hours redefining the minimum conf needed to run software for our clients when i was in the corporate world.

Yes a coder will tell you " you need a dual core and 2g of ram" ...what the H... does that mean?

Do i need a P4 dual core or or half a Last generation Xeon? Do i need 2Gb total or only for the app? how many users does he concider in his estimate? is it a recommended conf or a optimum conf? for regular use or for peak use?

Look at the recommanded conf Microsoft says Vista needs and what it really needs.

If you want to go with what your coder says go ahead.

I am just saying that if you want something reliable you need to test the app in prod before making a decision.

[Charles Harper]

The problem with my app will be the bandwidth, but it looks like the consensus seems to be that I need to get a dedicated server and GoDaddy where I a reseller really does not necessarily offer discounted pricing. Wow. I thought that was the advantage of being a reseller.

I digress...

So, $230-$250 managed sounds like the going rate. They can give me something like a control panel.

Theoretically, If I have 40 gb of storage, it makes sense to run other websites on there also.

I am still reading comments and really appreciate the time Warriors have taken to give thoughtful responses.

Mike, I appreciate your saying it is time to grow. When I gulped at the $200/mo. being above my sweet spot, that is what I was beginning to say. Thanks for that. I am getting there.

Charles

[seasoned]

Originally Posted by Charles Harper

The problem with my app will be the bandwidth, but it looks like the consensus seems to be that I need to get a dedicated server and GoDaddy where I a reseller really does not necessarily offer discounted pricing. Wow. I thought that was the advantage of being a reseller.

I digress...

So, $230-$250 managed sounds like the going rate. They can give me something like a control panel.

Theoretically, If I have 40 gb of storage, it makes sense to run other websites on there also.

I am still reading comments and really appreciate the time Warriors have taken to give thoughtful responses.

Mike, I appreciate your saying it is time to grow. When I gulped at the $200/mo. being above my sweet spot, that is what I was beginning to say. Thanks for that. I am getting there.

Charles

VPS affects ALL resources! Of course, they limit the space so HOPEFULLY you can access all the space you pay for, but THAT IS IT! If someone else starts spamming a lot, runs a download site, etc... It WILL affect bandwidth. As for CPUs, they have VPS systems to SHARE cpus, so THAT is affected also. $230-$250 last I knew was CHEAP for a managed server. $99-$250 is CHEAP for an unmanaged server. Some go FAR higher. Heck, colocation seems to start around $99, and that is just for a small space and line!

I looked at FDCservers. NICE deal, but NOT as nice as advertised here. 8-(

Steve

[Charles Harper]

Here seems to be the best that I have been able to find from ServInt

30 GB Disk Space
1 TB Monthly Transfer
768 MB Guaranteed (1.5 GB Burst RAM)
CentOS 5 Operating System
4 IP Addresses
Unlimited Domains and User Accounts
FREE Virtuozzo Power Panel
FREE nightly backups
FREE cPanel or Plesk 9 Available [details]
No set-up fee
$49 monthly
Features, Upgrades and Options


Seems to be the best of all worlds...

[MikeAmbrosio]

Hi Charles,

The ServInt package you are showing is VPS, but I assume you knew that

When I got my dedicated server, I was basically making very little money on line. I decided that having this expense (which was my first business expense over $50 per month) would motivate me to doing more.

It worked. Have never missed a payment

Good luck with your project.

Mike

[Charles Harper]

Again, Mike you are probably right on that. I have been thinking that I need to hustle a bit.

My head says servint virtual server at $49/mo.

My gut says hostgator dedicated at $174/mo with cpanel, fantastico, etc.

You Warriors have been the coolest and I thank you all for participating in this thread. This, to me, is what the Warrior Forum is all about.

Charles

Originally Posted by Charles Harper

My gut says hostgator dedicated at $174/mo with cpanel, fantastico, etc.

Charles

Go with your gut charles ....lol

Keep in mind also that you can very well run 20 or 30 sites from one dedicated server. Even if these sites have massive traffic and use many processes. Plus you have the ability to use different ip's without extra cost.

James