Do you really care what other IMers are doing?

[Andyhenry]

Time and time again I see threads here talking about what some IMer is doing and questioning whether you should do the same.

If someone says they hate article marketing and won't do it anymore - that has nothing to do with whether it will be useful as part of your business marketing.

If someone says they're not using Twitter anymore - so what? that has nothing to do with whether you should or not.

If someone says PPC is a waste of time and money - so what? there are a hundred others who will say the opposite.

Too many IMers spend all their time watching what others are doing and trying to copy them.

This is very often a really bad way to run a business.

There's a lot of benefit to modeling success and learning from others - but when it comes down to making money, YOU are responsible for your own results.

Whether your favourite guru is doing something or not has diddly squat to do with whether you should or not.

The quickest and easiest way to make money online in my experience has been to find people with a problem and help them - That has NOTHING to do with what other marketers are doing and you can be successful without ever speaking to another marketer (in some cases - especially if you don't speak to them).

Making money is not difficult and there are a thousand ways to do it - but the way that is right for YOU has zero to do with what is right for anyone else.

The simple fact of the matter is that most IMers are not taking enough consistent action on anything to have any chance of making money - so it's pretty irrelevant what their actual model is.

If you're new to IM and have come to this forum looking for answers consider this:


1 - How many 'buy buttons' do you have online?

Whatever effort you're putting in - until someone can actually give you money - it's irrelevant. (as far as making money is concerned)

2 - If I told you I was running a seminar and wanted you to speak but you would only make money from what you could sell at the event - what would you have to offer?

If all you have are other peoples products - start thinking about your future.

If you only have one $17 ebook - you have a massive gap in your model.

Unless you actually have enough things for people to buy for you to make the money you're dreaming of - it's not going to happen.

GET REAL!!!!!

If you're not making money - it's nothing to do with anyone else.

Andy

[Marian Berghes]

This reminds me of something that Gary Vaynerchuk said in a video...it was something like...don't try and copy the biggest guys in your market, get inspiration from them but RUN YOUR OWN SHOW. There is no such thing as getting rich by copying something, adding 2 features more and selling it again.

[Colin Evans]

The same can be said for "what's working?"

The only way to know for sure whether a particular method works or not is to try it yourself. I often get a laugh out of some of the replies made by people when various methods are discussed - I often read "forget it, it's a waste of time" for methods which I find quite successful...

I guess it depends on an individuals expectations.

[Amy Bass]

We all have different personalities and business models. Some have a talent for writing, others for doing graphics, etc... Focus on your strengths and outsource your weaknesses. I agree with Andy... just because someone does or does not do something does not mean you should automatically do the same. That is where experimenting comes in, to see what clicks with you.

[ExRat]

Hi Marian,

This reminds me of something that Gary Vaynerchuk said in a video...it was something like...don't try and copy the biggest guys in your market, get inspiration from them but RUN YOUR OWN SHOW. There is no such thing as getting rich by copying something, adding 2 features more and selling it again.

Don't you see the irony?

I'm not knocking you Marian. In fact it's a compliment.

I would rather hear YOUR point of view than Gary Vaynerchuk's. I don't care if he has more money than you or I, he doesn't actively contribute here - he might be in a different league therefore his opinion might be less appropriate for the average warrior.

YOUR opinion is valid, so offer that instead of Gary's.

I agree with the theme of Andy's post. In this forum, there are too many people that seem conditioned to follow others and act like if they don't obtain a blueprint or a mentor they will be lost.

If you go back a very long way, we are all probably from the same 'family'. Think about it. And that hairy bunch didn't have any blueprints but they managed to expand to the 7 billion or so that are in the 'family' today.

Someone had to 'imagine' the internet in the first place. So if we should copy or follow anyone, copy/follow that person by using our imagination and creating brand new stuff from brand new ideas all day, every day. It's the most obvious shortcut that everyone seems to want to avoid.

[Andyhenry]

Originally Posted by ExRat

I would rather hear YOUR point of view than Gary Vaynerchuk's. I don't care if he has more money than you or I, he doesn't actively contribute here - he might be in a different league therefore his opinion might be less appropriate for the average warrior.

YOUR opinion is valid, so offer that instead of Gary's.

Amen to that.

[Pete223]

Hi Andy, great post!

I think a lot of it is just human nature... Online/Offline, all the same!

The very successful companies/marketers, again Online or Off, very often, target these
folks!

I play golf with a good friend of mine and in the last 10 years he's probably purchased
12-14 drivers but he never worked on his swing!!!

He gets the same results... or even worse, he shoots higher because he needs to "adapt"
his new tool to his swing!

He's not going to start hitting the ball like Tiger Woods or Jack Nicklaus because
XYZ inc. is saying they use this club and not that club.

This can be said for any new shinny course/product that comes along in the Internet
Marketing world... work on your swing first!

Kindest Regards,
Pete

[rapidscc]

And that is how Andy speaks...kapow!!

:-)

oMar

[John Rogers]

Another twist on this...

If you find yourself fretting over what other sellers are doing, aren't doing, used to be doing, are planning on doing tomorrow, then you are paralyzing yourself into inaction.

Quit wasting energy on speculating, and go try something to generate sales.

If it works, great. Keep doing that. Improve the tactic if you're able.

If it doesn't work, that's great to. Throw that out and don't waste any more time on it. You're one step closer to success. Test your next tactic.

John

[Andyhenry]

Originally Posted by rapidscc

And that is how Andy speaks...kapow!!

:-)

oMar

I'm not trying to sell anything - just help people so I don't see the need to sugar coat it, there are a lot of people diluding themselves that they're building a business when they're just dabbling and copying other people in the hope that they'll suddenly make easy money.

There are a lot of ways to make money that I just don't do because I'm lazy or not interested in them - but they'd work for someone else. Also there are people making money doing things I have no interest in and wouldn't work for me because I wouldn't have the discipline to do them.

Copying other people just because you have no plan of your own is a really bad way to start a business because at best you'll end up aiming at their goals - and you have no idea what they are.

[Matt Maiden]

I think it's a good idea when you start a new venture such as an Internet business, to look around at the people who are already doing it to try and figure out which paths to go down and which ones to stay away from until you feel confident enough to forge your own.

I agree with you that too many people look at what the others are doing and following as a way of feeling safe and using someone else's confidence vicariously.

This is what leads to the always having to buy the next hot thing and jumping around mentality. A lack of self-confidence. The longer someone stays in that state of mind, the harder it is for them to break free and sooner or later they end up broke and or discouraged and call all of this B.S.

You can only be told and taught how to swim so many times before you have to jump in the pool on your own. Most of this running around the edges comes from that lack of confidence turning into fear and ultimately defeat.

This is why when I try to help a friend get "into the pool", I always give them something easy like set up a Blogger blog, then how to put an ad on it...

I think the problem with people seeing these big new product launches and marketing techniques is that there is no rating system on the product that tells someone "Advanced, Intermediate, or Beginner" and not knowing their own level buy the product and do not fully understand how to use the knowledge and contributes to their lack of confidence.

The vicious cycle continues.

[Marian Berghes]

Yeah didn't realise I just did that, weird stuff

I've never been the guy to copy others businesses, even if I do follow advice and stuff from different marketers I still test my stuff before trowing it out the window.

When I first started I've had a hard time understanding the phrase that almost all "guru's" preach: just copy what others do but do it better. I've heard this a million times and I was always like "WTH, why would I want to do the same thing that he does?"

I have a "outside the group" mentality in almost everything I do in life,don't know if its good thing or a bad thing but it works so far.

I do alot of stuff like others, I will admit that, simply because they work for me, but I always like to put "my touch" on things and test them in the ground.

In the beginning it might be a good idea to follow the course you bought to the letter till you get up, but when you got up don't start looking at what X guy is doing and copy him, inspire from what he is doing/telling and try it yourself...if it works fine...if it doesn't fine again.

There you go, my opinion

[John Taylor]

Do you really care what other IMers are doing?

Only when they are joint venture partners.

John

[Andyhenry]

Originally Posted by John Taylor

Only when they are joint venture partners.

John

Ok - I'll make the videos, I can take a hint

[John Taylor]

Andy,

Originally Posted by Andyhenry

Ok - I'll make the videos, I can take a hint

That's nice to know. However, I also
had a serious point to make..

When you partner with someone then
you put your reputation in their hands
by association.

So yes, I do care what other IMers are
doing when their actions may have an
impact on my business.

John

[tommygadget]

Hi Andy, great advice IMO. My most successful product/service to date came about by listening to feedback from my previous efforts and filling a NEED that others told me they had. If I was trying to do what others were doing, I might not have been listening at that crucial moment!

TomG.

[Alminc]

Excellent post Andy!

All newbies should make clear for themselves what they actually
want to focus on.

If it is affiliate marketing, then forget about everything else until
you have mastered driving massive traffic.

If it is product creation, go create your own products and learn to
sell them through your own funnel.

And so on.

Don't get lost in the ocean of information about all and everything
that has to do with making money online.

Pick just one strategy, or business model, and do only that until
you have strong online presense within that model.

Don't care about others business models, mind your own business,
become knowledgeable, become a master. FOCUS!

[R Hagel]

Modeling successful others and proven ideas isn't bad, such as when you take a neat idea from one niche and try it out in another. The problem (as has been mentioned) is when folks just blindly copy and have no plan of their own.

My opinion is that some of this has to do with folks still being stuck in the "employee mentality." This is where the boss gives you work to do, you disengage the brain and you just do the work until it's time to go home.

Folks get used to that. And then when they start their own business, it's hard to adjust to the fact that THEY'RE the boss, the one who makes decisions. They're still accustomed to getting feedback, seeing what others are going and asking for opinions on every little thing they do. They're still accustomed to letting someone else do all the thinking.

For example, about 11 or 12 years ago I had a telemarketing job where we had to ask to use the restroom. Now imagine someone working in that environment for years and years (and perhaps being comfortable with it) -- you can just see what kind of mentality one would develop. Definitely an approval seeking, "Am I doing this right?" mentality.

So, I'd suggest that people start looking for this behavior in themselves... and then consciously make the decision to stop it. Look to Andy's OP for clues to whether you have this mentality (e.g., are you blindly copying tactics without really understanding the tactics themselves?).

Or clues like this: You seek out reviews for everything, even a $7 ebook from a well-known person. You fret over the purchase until someone you know and trust says the product is good.

Or like this: You want constant feedback on your own work. Maybe you're even afraid to take an afternoon to create a short report because you're not sure if you're "doing it right." So instead of taking two hours to do it, you're sitting on the WF for two hours soliciting opinions about whether you should do it.

And similar clues.

So, how to stop it?

Good question. Mainly, it's about stepping out of your comfort zone. Some people won't do that until the pain of staying in their comfort zone is bigger than the perceived/assumed "pain" of stepping out of the comfort zone.

I'm thinking baby steps might be the answer (e.g., start ignoring the gurus one by one; force yourself to take action without first seeking approval, etc).

Second one (and this is the biggie): create a business plan. Then you don't have to worry about what anyone else is doing, because you have your own roadmap.

Just some rambling thoughts on a Friday afternoon...

Becky

[Matt Maiden]

Originally Posted by R Hagel

Just some rambling thoughts on a Friday afternoon...

Good ones too

[Andyhenry]

Originally Posted by R Hagel

Second one (and this is the biggie): create a business plan. Then you don't have to worry about what anyone else is doing, because you have your own roadmap.

Just some rambling thoughts on a Friday afternoon...

Becky

Thanks Becky.

You're right - that one is a biggie.

Many people have no plan and if they actually looked at what they were doing in the cold light of day it would be obvious why they're not getting the results they want.

Whenever people come to me and ask for help in their IM efforts it's always easy for me to see what they're doing wrong - some of that is experience and outside perspective but sometimes they just never really got 'real' about it and looked at it from a common sense angle and asked some probing questions about whether their expectations are in-line with their actions and what will come from them (or even if they can tell what will come from them).

you'd never be able to start an offline business like this but so many people try it with the online business because they expect to fail so they don't start with a solid plan.

Looking for others to tell you what to do is a great way to have someone else to blame when it doesn't work.

Andy

[Nick Brighton]

Originally Posted by ExRat

Hi Marian,

If you go back a very long way, we are all probably from the same 'family'. Think about it. And that hairy bunch didn't have any blueprints but they managed to expand to the 7 billion or so that are in the 'family' today.

Someone had to 'imagine' the internet in the first place. So if we should copy or follow anyone, copy/follow that person by using our imagination and creating brand new stuff from brand new ideas all day, every day. It's the most obvious shortcut that everyone seems to want to avoid.

Well said Roger.

For me, what I find the most exciting of all is being able to sit down in my office and look at my stats and say "Hmm, let's see what's not working and why...and how I can make it better or do it differently".

That to me is confidence boosting, ego boosting and income boosting all in one shot.

If you are blindly following others, with no responsibility or self control...then your motivation, self esteem and enthusiasm is at its' lowest.

When you're excited about why someone doesn't buy and you build a list of 10 x different ways to get them to buy WITHOUT consulting a forum or search engine...

...well, that's when you know you're in business for the right reasons.

[ExRat]

Hi Becky,

I picked up on this -

stuck in the "employee mentality."

[snip]

So, I'd suggest that people start looking for this behavior in themselves... and then consciously make the decision to stop it

...because when I started out online, I decided to change myself as well by trying to change my own employee mindset into one resembling that of an entrepreneur. It's a very long road, but a lot of fun and immensely educational. I think I'm addicted to it

Quick example - like most rat-racers, I used to love Friday nights out at the pub. I would spend all week working for that reward - a small taste of freedom and irresponsibility. And I used to despise the fact that around midday on Sunday, one had to start planning for Monday (IE - not getting too drunk on Sunday afternoon). The job used to 'eat into' whatever smaller amount of freedom I felt that I had.

For a long time now I have made a point of being semi-productive and working on Friday nights. The main reason for this is purely to reverse the conditioning and to be doing the opposite of what the rat-racers are doing. I don't really want to be mixing with them en masse (in case their conditioning rubs off on me) so it's ideal.

And this theme runs through almost everything that I do. I avoid doing things that rat-racers do and do the opposite instead. It can get quite testing at times in normal situations - like today at the barber's shop. It's really easy to get strange looks from 'the masses' just by chatting because my attitude, lifestyle and outlook is the opposite of everyone elses.

I deliberately avoid anything that is forced upon us by the system in a regimented manner. So Christmas is a tough time where hibernation or disappearing helps, so that I can quietly get on with work.

I take my holidays when nobody else does. I love to sunbathe on a Tuesday afternoon.

Sorry to drone on (I could have given hundreds of real examples), but I wanted to make the point that not only is it a good idea to shake off the conditioning of the employee mindset - it's also been an interesting experiment (that I will continue to explore) to completely reverse it and turn it on it's head. Hence my 'dare to be different' tagline. I recommend it to anyone who has the right circumstances and the guts to ignore those who are uncomfortable with someone who continually upsets the apple cart and refuses to conform - it can make the natives restless. But it allows you to discover a different kind of freedom that most will never experience.

[John Durham]

Just take any business concept you want, and put it online. That's all. Who cares what everyone else is doing. Do what you do. Discover a way to make what 'you do' work!

There are a thousand different ways to make a sale. Just make a sale.

[dsmpublishing]

Hi

i only care when they are copying my products (which does happen) but if it is about what they do and sell i dont care at all. If i did i could become obsessed and say if they were getting 25 new subscribers a day and i was getting 21 it would send me absolutely crazy and turn me into a mad woman!!!!

We are ALL different and do things in a different way and if we watched each other too much we would get so competitive that we would actually end up losing money and this is what we dont want to happen.

sam
X

[danmurphy]

the reason people don't make money is because they watch everyone else... figure out your target market... find out what they want... and give it to them!

who cares how

[BIG Mike]

Actually, I do to some extent - mainly for new ideas or nuggets I can integrate into what I'm already doing.

For example, if I see a bunch of folks talking about why they won't use Twitter anymore, I'm curious about the underlying reasons why and whether or not a product could be developed from it.

As in any industry, I think it's important to know what others are doing and why they're doing it/not doing it. Unfortunately, we see a lot of people in IM, who take everything they hear as Gospel, rather than simply evaluating the information in the context of their own business models and then acting on it or not.

I don't think anyone should automatically allow their business to be driven by what others are doing, but I do think they should keep their eyes and ears open to possiblities.

[R Hagel]

Hi Roger,

I don't think you droned on. I rather enjoyed your insights and learning about your journey.

Originally Posted by ExRat

...because when I started out online, I decided to change myself as well by trying to change my own employee mindset into one resembling that of an entrepreneur. It's a very long road, but a lot of fun and immensely educational. I think I'm addicted to it

You mention it being a very long road, and I think that's true of a lot of people. That's because it seems we're taught to conform and taught to be employees.

For example:

--Most folks these days are expected to go to college and get a degree that will help them land a job... working for someone else.

-- Parents tell their entrepreneur-minded kids to "get a real job."

-- People always ask kids, "what do you want to be when you grow up?" If they say something like "scientist" or "firefighter" or "teacher" or whatever, everyone smiles and says, "great!" But if the child says something that might hint at him being an entrepreneur, everyone exchanges weary "I hope this is just a phase" smiles.

-- Getting things like a mortgage is sometimes more difficult for self-employed folks, because lenders feel a job is safer.

And so on.


Now here's the funny thing...

When we're teenagers we start to make the move from depending on our parents for everything to becoming independent. We learn to think for ourselves. That move is expected and encouraged, so most people do fairly well with the adjustment.

Really, the distance between dependent teenager and independent adult isn't all that different than the move from dependent employee to independent entrepreneur. But what makes the difference is expectation.

We're EXPECTED and encouraged to become independent adults.

We're also EXPECTED and encouraged to become conforming employees.

No wonder it can be a long road.

Cheers,
Becky

[ExRat]

Hi Becky,

I don't think you droned on. I rather enjoyed your insights and learning about your journey.

Cheers!

Really, the distance between dependent teenager and independent adult isn't all that different than the move from dependent employee to independent entrepreneur. But what makes the difference is expectation.

True. There are also aspects of 'normal' life that tend to make it more difficult too - some coincidental, some planned. EG - marriage (spouse pressure), mortgages, company schemes that encourage people to stick around (share options, benefits, pension etc).

Add to that the pressure from society that I mentioned, where if you buck the trend, you're a 'drop out' or 'unconventional'.

Even though I spent many years wandering aimlessly through the rat race, I think I ended up where I have because I didn't have any expectations put upon me and had no examples to follow. Funny how bad luck can morph into good luck, eh?

(To get back on topic) Carving out my own groove comes naturally to me, whereas doing 'what you are supposed to' seems like the easy way out - very much like failure.

And in line with Big Mike's comment - I wouldn't say I 'care' what others are doing, but because the majority all talks about what the majority does, whereas mavericks tend to keep quiet - I find it very interesting to 'keep tabs' on what others are doing, in order to spot the mavericks and find clues that will help me to progress, because they are being successfully used by people of the same 'maverick' ilk.

[JayXtreme]

In the simplest of terms...

No... I don't really care what anyone else is doing. In fact.. just recently, 90% of my IM activity has been spent locked away from anything. No influence, no e-mail (aside from my content girl, she ALWAYS has my ear..).

Just me..

Sure, my JV partners and mastermind guys think I'm a bit lazy recently.. but they understand. Sometimes, I just need single minded focus to get really creative on bigger projects.

When all is said and done, the ONLY things that will work in my business, are the things that I put into it..

Peace

Jay

[Steven Wagenheim]

Andy, there is so much I've wanted to say in reply to your post and a lot of
the replies here that I don't even know where to start.

Let me begin with "caring" about what other marketers do.

There are 2 kinds of caring.

The first kind is where you cling onto every little thing that John Doe does
in the hope that one of those things will make you some money. This is
what leads way too many people to jump from one thing to the next. It is
the reason why, in the MLM community, the average retention for a
program is about 90 days. People have no patience and when they see that
the program that has promised them the moon doesn't pan out, they move
on to the next one.

The second kind of caring is where you observe what's going on to see
what changes are taking place in the community. This is critical if you're
going to stay on top of things. Imagine that some law goes into effect
that greatly affects affiliate marketing, such as the new tax laws for
certain states in regard to Internet sales. If a smart IMer figures out a
way to make the best of these changes or even monetize them, isn't it
in your best interests to see what they're doing and, if nothing else, test
it for yourself? You may be leaving money on the table, or worse, seriously
hurting your business if you don't.

Point is, we don't live in a vacuum. We need to keep our eyes open or we
end up getting left behind.

Now, in response to the discussions on the employee mentality. This is
another big problem with people who "think" that they want to run their
own business online. They say that they want the "freedom" to work when
they want, but the problem is, they don't have the "discipline" to work
when they have to. The reason is simple. They don't have a boss looking
over their shoulder telling them what to do and when to do it. And from
what I've seen, not everybody is cut out to force themselves to get out
of bed and tackle that to-do list...if they've even made one.

As far as a business plan. How many people are even qualified to make one?

As an employee, it's not something you ever had to worry about. Now, all
of a sudden, if you're out of work like I was, you're forced to think in ways
that you've never had to think in before. Without training, how is this
even possible? I went to school for 4 years, got a degree in marketing and
finance and yet it still took me 3 years of fumbling in the dark before I
finally made a REAL business plan. The average Joe doesn't have a prayer
in that department.

As for John Taylor's comment about caring about what marketers do if
you're going to do business with them...absolutely.

Reputations can be ruined by associating with the wrong people. So for
that reason alone, I want to know every little thing that so and so did.

For example, when the forced continuity stuff was going on, there were
a few people who took some heavy hits. At the time, were you not aware
of who they were and got involved with them, you might have been the
victim of some nasty press yourself.

Again, we do not live in a vacuum. And while I agree that ultimately, those
who succeed are the ones who truly think for themselves and are
themselves, you can't bury your head in the sand. To me, that's just
professional suicide.

Anyway, that's my million dollars worth on the subject.

It's good to be back.

[tommygadget]

Hey Steve,

Welcome back...

TomG.

[Andyhenry]

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

As far as a business plan. How many people are even qualified to make one?

I'd say anyone who expects to create financial freedom has a duty to themselves to make one.

If you're not qualified to create a business plan for the business you intend to create your income - I'd ask serious questions about whether your expectations of it working out are realistic.

This is another one of those areas where due diligence and learning your craft before creating unrealistic expectations of revenue is concerned.

If you can't create a plan for why something will work and make money - you have no business expecting it to work and you'd be stupid to spend your time doing it.

Andy

[Matt Maiden]

Originally Posted by R Hagel

...we're taught to conform and taught to be employees.

So true Becky,

I struggled with this when my children were growing up because this is exactly what I did not want to instill into them.

I always tried to be aware of how I had them follow the rules but not with an iron fist.

I tried to implement the consequential method to learning. There are consequences to your actions. Good and bad.

The first time my son got into any trouble was around 10 years old and climbed into the neighbors yard to play on a old lawn mower and naturally it broke. The wheels fell off.

I witnessed this and went next door and the neighbor said it was no big deal but I asked her to go along with my teaching and she agreed.

When my son came in the house I told him that I saw him break Mrs. Dary's mower and that we needed to go and talk to her about what to do about fixing it.

All of the blood drained from his face and was shocked that he would have to face her. I took him over and Mrs Dary had him work it off.

He had to go do yard work for her for two weekends.

He never got into trouble again.

I think if we are taught how to make wise choices rather than told what to do, there would be less followers and more leaders.

Matt

[Steven Wagenheim]

Originally Posted by Andyhenry

I'd say anyone who expects to create financial freedom has a duty to themselves to make one.

If you're not qualified to create a business plan for the business you intend to create your income - I'd ask serious questions about whether your expectations of it working out are realistic.

This is another one of those areas where due diligence and learning your craft before creating unrealistic expectations of revenue is concerned.

If you can't create a plan for why something will work and make money - you have no business expecting it to work and you'd be stupid to spend your time doing it.

Andy

I agree with you 100%, which was my point as to why so many people
fail right out of the starting gate.

Great Post Andy ... I agree 100% - I could care less what "others" are doing, if they are doing something to make them money then good for them. I will go do my thing and not worry about trying to "copy" someone else.

I do not waste my time on looking up "others" stats
I do not waste my time reading dozens of "gurus" emails
I do not waste my time trying to find out where someone else is listed
I do not waste my time trying to follow someone elses plans

Instead I spend that time on building my business and taking care of my customers..

James

James

[nostih]

Yes, I do.


Only because I am new and trying to get a feel for things. I use it as a way to see what's out there and what's available.

Originally Posted by Andyhenry

Time and time again I see threads here talking about what some IMer is doing and questioning whether you should do the same.

If someone says they hate article marketing and won't do it anymore - that has nothing to do with whether it will be useful as part of your business marketing.

If someone says they're not using Twitter anymore - so what? that has nothing to do with whether you should or not.

If someone says PPC is a waste of time and money - so what? there are a hundred others who will say the opposite.

Too many IMers spend all their time watching what others are doing and trying to copy them.

This is very often a really bad way to run a business.

There's a lot of benefit to modeling success and learning from others - but when it comes down to making money, YOU are responsible for your own results.

Whether your favourite guru is doing something or not has diddly squat to do with whether you should or not.

The quickest and easiest way to make money online in my experience has been to find people with a problem and help them - That has NOTHING to do with what other marketers are doing and you can be successful without ever speaking to another marketer (in some cases - especially if you don't speak to them).

Making money is not difficult and there are a thousand ways to do it - but the way that is right for YOU has zero to do with what is right for anyone else.

The simple fact of the matter is that most IMers are not taking enough consistent action on anything to have any chance of making money - so it's pretty irrelevant what their actual model is.

If you're new to IM and have come to this forum looking for answers consider this:


1 - How many 'buy buttons' do you have online?

Whatever effort you're putting in - until someone can actually give you money - it's irrelevant. (as far as making money is concerned)

2 - If I told you I was running a seminar and wanted you to speak but you would only make money from what you could sell at the event - what would you have to offer?

If all you have are other peoples products - start thinking about your future.

If you only have one $17 ebook - you have a massive gap in your model.

Unless you actually have enough things for people to buy for you to make the money you're dreaming of - it's not going to happen.

GET REAL!!!!!

If you're not making money - it's nothing to do with anyone else.

Andy

[slvrsrfr]

Originally Posted by ExRat

Hi Marian,
I agree with the theme of Andy's post. In this forum, there are too many people that seem conditioned to follow others and act like if they don't obtain a blueprint or a mentor they will be lost.

this is a great post ex. oftentimes we like to follow others because we think it will make it easier for us. and it can. but it also allows us to have a ready excuse if we don't succeed.

"well it must have been the 'guru's' problem" we'll say. when all along the only solution to succeeding in this business is focused and determined efforts.

though i'd like to think that a mentor could help streamline the process for me. from what i've heard, mentors have helped many other folks expedite the process.

jason

[Emily Meeks]

Constantly trying to see what other people are doing is also a distraction and decreases the chance you'll stop reading ebooks and DO SOMETHING.

I'm sure there are many people who won't necessarily want to do what I've set out to do, but to them I say, "Well that's my story and I'm sticking to it >:P"

People whine about how the vast majority of safelists/PLR products suck, but what do I do? I take both and put a twist on everything. Safelists are filled with newbies trying to learn how to make money and/or get traffic, easy target audience. There's no point searching for "good" PLR... PLR products are UNFINISHED PRODUCTS where you can turn crap into gold. If that's not your cup of tea then no problem, there's other things you can do.

Maybe one day I'll look into PPC, but right now I just don't care. There's tons of others who make millions off PPC and think people like me are crazy.

I'm at the point where I've learned all I can. Time to stop learning and start putting myself through more of the grunt work it takes to get there.

[Martin.Avis]

Hey Andy - stirring up the hornet's nest again I see!

I absolutely agree with your core premise that blindly following others is a bad way to model success. You don't start out from the same place they did, so you are very unlikely to end up where they are.

However, I do 'care' what others are doing - so that I can take the bits that look promising, adapt them to my personality and see how their idea can be made to work inside my frame of reference.

The trick is to apply thought.

Without that added element you are at best a sheep and at worst a lemming.

With thought you are an innovator and an entrepreneur.

There is nothing wrong with watching and listening and learning from other people, so long as you realize that what you are seeing is their way. It works for them, but may need some adaptation to work for you.

So perhaps the biggest guru of the all is Paul Anka who wrote:

For what is a man, what has he got?
If not himself, then he has naught
To say the things he truly feels and not the words of one who kneels
The record shows I took the blows and did it my way!

Martin

[Harvey Segal]

Originally Posted by Martin.Avis

So perhaps the biggest guru of the all is Paul Anka who wrote:

For what is a man, what has he got?
If not himself, then he has naught
To say the things he truly feels and not the words of one who kneels
The record shows I took the blows and did it my way!

Or an IM version . . .

For what is a man, what has he got?
If not his blog, then he has naught
To post the things he truly thinks and not the words of one who links
The records show I used escrow and now they won't pay


Harvey

[Andyhenry]

Hi Martin,

I'm not sure I would call the forum a hornets nest

But maybe I am prodding it with a stick.

Whenever someone posts a question here - there are always people with various perspectives ready to answer it from many angles so it's interesting for people to share.

Obviously the point I was making wasn't that you can't learn from others or you should ignore other people (I work with many IMers and have a lot of IM friends so of course I wouldn't suggest not caring about others as a generalisation), but that many people seem to have so little confidence in themselves that by default they look for someone else to tell them how to live their online business life. I firmly believe that no-one else can give you the important answers to life's questions and until you have your own clear perspective on what you want to achieve with an online business, no-one can tell you how to do it or what tools you need.

Once you are clear - then there will probably be others that it makes sense to learn from and work with.

Andy

Originally Posted by Martin.Avis

Hey Andy - stirring up the hornet's nest again I see!

I absolutely agree with your core premise that blindly following others is a bad way to model success. You don't start out from the same place they did, so you are very unlikely to end up where they are.

However, I do 'care' what others are doing - so that I can take the bits that look promising, adapt them to my personality and see how their idea can be made to work inside my frame of reference.

The trick is to apply thought.

Without that added element you are at best a sheep and at worst a lemming.

With thought you are an innovator and an entrepreneur.

There is nothing wrong with watching and listening and learning from other people, so long as you realize that what you are seeing is their way. It works for them, but may need some adaptation to work for you.

So perhaps the biggest guru of the all is Paul Anka who wrote:

For what is a man, what has he got?
If not himself, then he has naught
To say the things he truly feels and not the words of one who kneels
The record shows I took the blows and did it my way!

Martin

[Marian Berghes]

About business plans, there is also the concept of "plan as you go" business plan.

That doesn't mean that you should start without a plan at all, it just means that you don't have to put every little small detail and bolt in the plan.

I see too many people that spend weeks or months on planning how they are going to approach a market and stuff.

You don't have to stay that long, remember, a business plan is not something set in stone in my book...its more like a set of guidelines that help you stay on track...but when you need to make changes, DO THEM, if they are not in the business plan that doesn't mean you shouldn't take advantage of an opportunity.

Thats the beauty of "plan as you go", you make a simple, flexible yet realistic plan to start out with, and you will change and adapt as you implement it.

Thats just my opinion tho...some people do like to have a full blown business plan...to me, its just faster and more flexible to do it this way.

[Emily Meeks]

Originally Posted by R Hagel

-- Parents tell their entrepreneur-minded kids to "get a real job."

HA yes that's exactly what my mom said to me, and of course she said, "If you want to make money online you can do it in your OWN apartment, if you're gonna live here you're gonna get a REAL JOB." Of course, "make money online" is said in the most condescending tones ever (this is one of the many things where she and I clash - doesn't matter if it's religion, the way I dress or the way I plan to earn a living...)

Oh yes, and the reason I never want to go to university: I absolutely REFUSE to spend $100,000 and 80 hours/week to earn a degree I don't care about that only brings in $30,000/year. (I go to community college classes, but the classes I take/plan on taking don't add up to any sort of degree - German, Middle-Eastern Dance, Ninjutsu, Theatre, Jewelry, Archeology, Creative Writing, Japanese... if I'm going to school, I'll study what I WANT to study, regardless of the degree)

It was always my life's greatest debate - How to Do Everything I Want AND Make A Living? Debate debate debate until I discovered Internet Marketing. Went through the completely-lost-newbie stage and have a plan. I'm still learning things all the time and learning how to improve - but fact is, you cannot please everyone all the time and you'll go crazy if you try.

I'll admit I can be headstrong about doing things "My Way". Even if I outsource certain things, at the end of the day I'll still make up my own mind about the way a job should be done.

I know I went off on a personal limb there but the moral of the story is that we all have our own path. So many are conditioned to follow, follow follow. The fact you're on the WF means you're somebody who thinks that's bull****. There's no such thing as nonconformity, but rather self-conformity, if that makes sense. That I believe is ESSENTIAL to any kind of success as an entrepreneur.

[Andyhenry]

Originally Posted by Marian Berghes

You don't have to stay that long, remember, a business plan is not something set in stone in my book...its more like a set of guidelines that help you stay on track...but when you need to make changes, DO THEM, if they are not in the business plan that doesn't mean you shouldn't take advantage of an opportunity.

That's how anyone with half a brain creates a plan.

There are always lessons you learn and changes you can make to improve things based on lessons you learn along the way, so any plan without the flexibility to change it when needed is likely to end much less effectively.

[Hamish Jones]

I don't freak out and blindly follow what people are doing, but I do care- especially with competitors.

You can always learn from your competitors but I do not think you will get anywhere by blindly copying them.

[Marian Berghes]

Originally Posted by Andyhenry

That's how anyone with half a brain creates a plan.

There are always lessons you learn and changes you can make to improve things based on lessons you learn along the way, so any plan without the flexibility to change it when needed is likely to end much less effectively.

You would be surprised on how many online business and small businesses refuse to "adapt" or change stuff inside them just because they made a 60 page plan or some sht for the next 1 year and they are going to stick to it by the letter.

I know small businesses in my area that laughed at me when I told them that in this "economic crisis" you should make some special offers, a little more advertising or anything to get more customers so you don't close down like the other 4-5 businesses in close proximity to my home.

They said that they don't have it in their business plans to make special offers and discounts, they are going to fire some people, cut some bonuses, stop paying extra time and they will get trough it.

To me, firing people should be a last resort for a business.

Thats just my personal opinion and how I run my own stuff.

So in conclusion: Don't "over-think" your plan, just make one to get started and you will adapt & improve it as you go.