When a WSO warrior takes your money and runs - what then?

[Jekiko]

Moderator Comment:

You now need to contact the helpdesk to explain why you have two Warrior Forum usernames.






Yes - what happens when you pay in advance for a WSO and
the warrior doesn't fulfill and refuses to give you a refund ?

Well that is what happened to me.
Lost 150 dollars advance payment.


What should I do ?

[Corwinnx]

Find Bev Clement and ask her to put it on her Name&Shame wall...

Marcus

[George Stavrakakis]

Not much you can do other than file a claim with paypal or the credit card you used to purchase. Its crazy but you can't even name the person in the forum or you will get banned.

It really sucks when this happens and it happens more than you might think.

[Steve Diamond]

Originally Posted by Imran Naseem

Upfront payments are always bad...I remember paying a web designer once upfront..lost $500

Your experience is regrettable, but what about the freelancer who puts in the hours and completes a job in good faith, and then doesn't get paid? It cuts both ways.

Depending on the size of a project, I usually collect 40% - 50% in advance and the rest on completion. I've always been happy with this arrangement, and so have my clients.

Steve

[sevenish]

Originally Posted by Steve Diamond

Depending on the size of a project, I usually collect 40% - 50% in advance and the rest on completion. I've always been happy with this arrangement, and so have my clients.

Yep, same here.

To the OP, report the WSO vendor by submitting a ticket to WF Admin here:
http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...pport-com.html

[Corwinnx]

Steve,
Good suggestion for freelancers. There's also the option of using an escrow service, and my favorite... I zip the folder and FTP it to a date stamped blog that no one knows about. So if I deliver something and don't get payment, I can always prove I was the original creator by the date on the blog.

Marcus

[GarrieWilson]

Originally Posted by Corwinnx

Steve,
Good suggestion for freelancers. There's also the option of using an escrow service, and my favorite... I zip the folder and FTP it to a date stamped blog that no one knows about. So if I deliver something and don't get payment, I can always prove I was the original creator by the date on the blog.

Marcus

That "proof" will not prove anything. It would also not hold up in court.

[tommygadget]

Originally Posted by Jekiko

Yes - what happens when you pay in advance for a WSO and
the warrior doesn't fulfill and refuses to give you a refund ?

Well that is what happened to me.
Lost 150 dollars advance payment.


What should I do ?

Open a ticket here at the forum and enclose the correspondence. File a dispute with PayPal right away.

TomG.

[Kevin Birch]

Originally Posted by George Stavrakakis

Not much you can do other than file a claim with paypal or the credit card you used to purchase. Its crazy but you can't even name the person in the forum or you will get banned.

Where in the rules does it say you'll get banned?

The mods and the other Warriors would love to know about it - the guy will not last long that way . . .

[JackPowers]

The fair thing imo. is always to pay 50% upfront and then rest on delivery. Works both ways!

[J Elizabeth Dize]

Have you tried contacting this person (who I believe you've discussed in another thread) via Twitter? Perhaps they didn't get the e-mail, or forgot that they owe you a refund?

I'm not excusing what your freelancer did, but from the little I know, the Warrior you're dealing with has a good reputation.

[Pete223]

Originally Posted by kevinb

Where in the rules does it say you'll get banned?

The mods and the other Warriors would love to know about it - the guy will not last long that way . . .

http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...ead-first.html

"The main overriding rule for this forum is this:

If you have a problem with another Warrior, a Guru, or God, take it up with them directly. Not here. No exceptions."

Cheers, Pete

[John Taylor]

Action you can take..

1. It's perfectly acceptable to post honest feedback
within the relevant WSO thread.

2. Submit a support ticket outlining your evidence.

3. Submit a dispute through PayPal and claim non-
delivery.

4. If you paid by credit card, and PayPal haven't
settled in your favour.. submit a chargeback request.

5. In future ask service suppliers if they would be
willing to work through RentACoder. They have an
escrow system and hold ALL funds until the work
has been completed.

John

[Paul M]

Originally Posted by Jekiko

Yes - what happens when you pay in advance for a WSO and
the warrior doesn't fulfill and refuses to give you a refund ?

Well that is what happened to me.
Lost 150 dollars advance payment.


What should I do ?

You can also leave honest feedback in the members WSO thread,
to warn other warriors about your experience with that seller.


-Paul

[Poglia]

Originally Posted by Imran Naseem

Report it to the Admin and also Paypal

Paypal does not offer protection for digital products.

[GeorgR.]

Originally Posted by Jekiko

Yes - what happens when you pay in advance for a WSO and
the warrior doesn't fulfill and refuses to give you a refund ?

Well that is what happened to me.
Lost 150 dollars advance payment.


What should I do ?

paypal dispute, what else?

[Woody C]

Originally Posted by Corwinnx

Find Bev Clement and ask her to put it on her Name&Shame wall...

Marcus

...and where might one find this Name & Shame wall? I have a couple of names I would like to add. Hehe.

[Steven Carl Kelly]

Originally Posted by JackPowers

The fair thing imo. is always to pay 50% upfront and then rest on delivery. Works both ways!

For any good-sized transaction, this is the fair thing for both sides.

[JohnMcCabe]

Originally Posted by Corwinnx

Steve,
Good suggestion for freelancers. There's also the option of using an escrow service, and my favorite... I zip the folder and FTP it to a date stamped blog that no one knows about. So if I deliver something and don't get payment, I can always prove I was the original creator by the date on the blog.

Marcus

Originally Posted by GarrieWilson

That "proof" will not prove anything. It would also not hold up in court.

It may not stand up in court, but enough people believe it that it might elicit the desired reaction - a payment...

Originally Posted by chinkle

Time out! When you say you got ripped off what actually happened here. Did you apply everything this person told you to & follow his teaching exactly or did you buy one more program that you didn't follow through on & now your blaming someone who's had proven success. To make a blanket statement that you got ripped off is not totally fair unless you can look in the mirror & say you did everything possible to make it work & its just a bad system. I think you should let this person about this post & give him the opportunity to tell his side of the story if he doesn't answer back in this post than there's a pretty good chance that he's not ethical. At least you've given him the chance to defend himself.

Chinkle, unless you know more about this transaction than the original poster let on, you don't know what you're talking about.

WSO's often involve services such as article writing, web design, graphics, etc. And it isn't unknown for someone to take an order, and a payment, and disappear. From the phrasing of the original post, it sounds like that's what may have happened.

I'm not sure what made you jump to the alleged culprit's defense like that, but you may be jumping in without knowing what's beneath the water's surface.

[Bev Clement]

I've never had a name and shame wall, so can't help you there. Mary Murtha has one which is Name N Shame Wall| New Name N Shame Wall Bolg here to help people name individuals or companies who shammed and scammed them out of money, property, or intellectual property. talk to her.

[Steven Fullman]

Originally Posted by Corwinnx

Find Bev Clement and ask her to put it on her Name&Shame wall...

Marcus

Lol

Bev doesn't need a wall.

She has 'friends in high places'

Good call.

Steve

[Michael Mayo]

Beet me to it Bev.
Name N Shame Wall| New Name N Shame Wall Bolg here to help people name individuals or companies who shammed and scammed them out of money, property, or intellectual property.

Michael

Originally Posted by Bev Clement

I've never had a name and shame wall, so can't help you there. Mary Murtha has one which is Name N Shame Wall| New Name N Shame Wall Bolg here to help people name individuals or companies who shammed and scammed them out of money, property, or intellectual property. talk to her.

[IMChick]

paypal dispute, post an honest and factual feedback in the wso thread, report immediately to admin, send pm to the guy running the wso, keep names out of other threads or you will violate the WF tos and get banned. good luck.

[russellprisco]

Never had that happen on here (knock on wood), but I've lost $150 on eBay before. =( I feel your pain. =(

Just remember, every second trying to recover lost money is a second you could spend making more. Don't step over dollars to pick up dimes.

Good fortune to you, and I hope you make more than you lost (plus get your money back)

Also, unless they told you to F' off, it is possible that something has happened with that person. Maybe they're sick, lost a loved one, or maybe they're even dead themselves...

OMG... speaking of... I heard the funniest thing I've ever heard before in my life.

This should cheer you up at least a little....

~Russell Prisco =)

YouTube - Dumbest Cop Ever

[Jeff Henshaw]

We all lose money sometimes, both on and off the Internet. It's par for the course if one is in business.

Paypal does not offer protection for digital products.

The above statement is incorrect. If Warriors have little or no experience of a topic/thread of great concern to another Warrior, then it's better not to post.

My advice. File a dispute from within your PayPal account, copy the emails and/or pms that you have sent to the person or company with which you are in dispute to PayPal as evidence.

If the situation is just as you have posted, then I'll eat my hat if you don't get a refund via PayPal.

Just my thoughts,
Jeff.

[Kevin Birch]

Originally Posted by Pete223

http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...ead-first.html

"The main overriding rule for this forum is this:

If you have a problem with another Warrior, a Guru, or God, take it up with them directly. Not here. No exceptions."

Cheers, Pete

Pete - I still can't see where its says that you'll get banned for naming a scammer.

yes, I agree that 'Having a problem' means having a problem, but being scammed is totally different, and always will be.


Kevin

[Kevin Birch]

Originally Posted by Poglia

Paypal does not offer protection for digital products.

Oh yes it does (from personal experience) and they will often refund for digital products, even when there has been a 'no refund' clause (which is illegal to say BTW) as it goes against the various international 'Sale of Goods' laws.

Granted, the refunds may take a while, but they have always arrived back in my account, sooner or later.

[George Stavrakakis]

Originally Posted by kevinb

Pete - I still can't see where its says that you'll get banned for naming a scammer.

yes, I agree that 'Having a problem' means having a problem, but being scammed is totally different, and always will be.


Kevin

Kevin - No big deal either way but I know that it has happened to people. Being scammed is a problem and if you name names in the a threas other than the WSO thread then you take the risk.

[George Stavrakakis]

Originally Posted by kevinb

Oh yes it does (from personal experience) and they will often refund for digital products, even when there has been a 'no refund' clause (which is illegal to say BTW) as it goes against the various international 'Sale of Goods' laws.

Granted, the refunds may take a while, but they have always arrived back in my account, sooner or later.

Kevin is absolutely correct here. Paypal will help if the claim is filed with 45 (I think) days from the transaction.

[Johnadab]

I sympathise with you.
Hopefully the guy will see that it is not worth
messing with his reputation over 150 bucks.

[Didier Faucher]

(Personal message.)

When a respected IMer and Warrior sells illegally your product
with PLR after having already been caught 2 times, what do you do?

Very classy, man...
(He knows who he is.)


Didier

[Jekiko]

Thank you so much for all your advice.

The most annoying thing about this is that I opened a thread asking if anyone had worked with this guy - and I got good remarks. Then the guy answered in the thread! Everything seemed OK - so I gave more time.

Things didn't work out as he didn't have the time so I asked for a refund and he agreed.

He just didn't pay it !
After a couple of weeks I reminded him

----------------------------------------
Hi xxxxxxx

A couple of weeks ago you said that you were
sending me a refund of 150 cos you did not have time to complete my work.

When I questioned that it had not come through, you said it would take a few days. well I have left it for about two weeks, and I still have not received the refund.

Didi you forget to send it ?

please let me know as I need the money.

Thanks.
-----------------------------------

and got this:

---------------------------
"Shoot Im sorry I thought i issued it, it took longer for the transfer then i thought. i had the wrong account set up bu t it will be coming soon, i shoul dhave it to you later today"
------------------------------
It did not arrive - and he never replied to my PMs


Now - I don't want to make trouble for anyone by opening up a case with paypal. If they pp freeze the guys account because of this, I would not be happy about that.

Most likely he has no time, forgot, family problems, money problems and working double shifts again in the restuarant.

BUT - whatever the reason, there is no excuse for ignoring my PMs and emails.

That thread that I mentioned is still active and I just replied to it.

Just in case WF decides to delete that thread and my account, I has saved it and can easily dump it to a blog if I have to.

Now - I don't want to spend any more time writing about this or dealing with PP, I just want a little professional decency.

So come on Jeremy, sort it out.

Thank you

[Jekiko]

Nathan.

Friend, you're being a bit of a sucker, don't you think? Are you
really that magnanimous? Allowing someone to essentially steal
your money -- and feeling reluctant to "make trouble" for anyone
by opening a case with PayPal? Surely you must be kidding? lol

Well I hope you are wrong.

I just got a reply to one of my PMs to a warrior that works with this guy.
So maybe it will work out.

Actually, the money is one thing, but the damage to my work flow was worse. Many people say "outsource" to save time - well problems like this can set your whole project back by weeks - and that costs more than the 150 bucks.

What was annoying is that I was looking for someone to work continuously - thats why I bought into his 6 pack mini site WSO

The worse thing is the non-communication.

[Corwinnx]

Bev,
Thanks. Sorry bout that. I don't know why I thought it was you who had that wall. I must be going senile.

Marcus

[Paul M]

Originally Posted by Johnadab

I sympathise with you.
Hopefully the guy will see that it is not worth
messing with his reputation over 150 bucks.

Hold on, that wasn't your original post that seems to have disappeared now.

You posted as if you and the OP of this thread are the same person.
Then the same message you posted (that disappeared) has now been
re-posted by user "Jekiko."

You wouldn't happen to be using multiple accounts would you...and if so,
why?


-Paul

[triosolutions]

just inform the admain and report to paypal also. If goods or service not delivered to you then Paypal might reverse the transaction. Also you can report you credicard company if you have paid the amount through credit card. your credit card company will get reverse if you tell them you have not received the goods for what you paid for.

[Swastik]

Originally Posted by Paul M

Hold on, that wasn't your original post that seems to have disappeared now.

You posted as if you and the OP of this thread are same person, then
the same message you posted (that disappeared) has now been
re-posted by user "Jekiko".

You wouldn't happen to be using multiple accounts would you...and if so,
why?


-Paul

Yep, I noticed that too and Nathan's quote can prove it.

On the topic, here's what I recommend you do -

1) Try to Contact the freelancer one last time.

If no reply, then...

2) Paypal dispute.

3) Let the helpdesk know about the matter. From what I know, they'll ask the freelancer for clarification.

Thanks!

[Jekiko]

Hi Paul,

I am staying at a friends house for a couple of days (Jon) and he was logged in to WF on his computer.

When I saw all the responses to my thread I thought I had better answer. - I forgot about logging out and then in again under my name LOL !

So it was only after we looked back at the thread Jon spotted the mistake, so I thought I had better log in and put my comment under my name.

Sorry for confusing things.

BTW - I really appreciate all the advice.

I just hope that I don't have to use any of it.

[Michelle Brouse]

Originally Posted by Jekiko

Hi Paul,


BTW - I really appreciate all the advice.

I just hope that I don't have to use any of it.

Nah, you won't. I have ya'll covered. Just let me know if things don't go through - I'll keep an eye out for PM's this time!

Thanks!
Michelle

[Karen Blundell]

Originally Posted by Steve Diamond

Your experience is regrettable, but what about the freelancer who puts in the hours and completes a job in good faith, and then doesn't get paid? It cuts both ways.

Depending on the size of a project, I usually collect 40% - 50% in advance and the rest on completion. I've always been happy with this arrangement, and so have my clients.

Steve

this is also the arrangement I make and it works beautifully for all parties concerned.

to the OP, I'm so sorry this happened to you. I hope this gets rectified for you

[Paul M]

Originally Posted by Jekiko

Sorry for confusing things.

Fair enough Jekiko, just seems a little strange.


Regards,
-Paul

[actionplanbiz]

Originally Posted by George Stavrakakis

Its crazy but you can't even name the person in the forum or you will get banned.

It really sucks when this happens and it happens more than you might think.

Why Cant You name him OUt? that is crazy.

where is this policy?

[Jekiko]

OK
- Just to let everyone know,

I have just received a PM from him.
Seems a reasonable reply and he says he will refund on Wednesday.

The annoying thing is he didn't respond to me PM last week, only when I open a thread about it. Last week I gave him 5 days to sort it out.

This was my warning:
----------------------------------------------------
HI AGAIN

WHY DONT YOU ANSWER MY PM s?

YOU SEEMED A NICE GUY AND ACCORDING TO PEOPLE THAT WORK WITH YOU, THEY SEEM HAPPY.

I DONT UNDERSTAND YOU - I AM TRYING TO DO THE RIGHT THING BY YOU - GIVING YOU A LINK FOR YOU ON MY WEBSITE - BUT YOU DONT ANSWER ME AND YOU DONT SEND THE REFUND.

I'LL GIVE YOU FIVE DAYS BEFORE I START RANTING ABOUT THIS.

I UNDERSTAND YOU ARE BUSY - BUT TAKING THIS AMOUNT OF TIME AND IGNORING MY PMs IS NOT GOOD.

SORRY BUT I AM GETTING PISSED OFF.
------------------------------------------------------
No reply till today.

[Alan Petersen]

Originally Posted by actionplanbiz

Why Cant You name him OUt? that is crazy.

where is this policy?

Go read the sticky called "rules".

The main overriding rule for this forum is this:

If you have a problem with another Warrior, a Guru, or God, take it up with them directly. Not here. No exceptions.

[netcash4u]

Hi Jekiko,

I hope you get your money back soon!

I will be cautious next time around! Won't you agree?
Ken