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Old 01-08-2009, 02:57 PM   #51
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Default Re: What are YOU thinking?

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Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post
Steven,No, but it doesn't prove you're not.

You've probably either hit a balance (gone neutral) or you're unconsciously shifting your eyes in ways that create the illusion.


Paul
It doesn't matter how I shift my eyes or if I look at it out of the corner of my eye, I can't make that thing go counter-clockwise.

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Old 01-08-2009, 02:57 PM   #52
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Default Re: What are YOU thinking?

crazy!!

at first she was anti-clockwise ...

then i scrolled back up to your words and could only see half of her and she started going clockwise ....

and now everytime i look she is going clockwise ...

insane!!

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Old 01-08-2009, 03:10 PM   #53
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Default Re: What are YOU thinking?

Hi,

RE - the gorilla. I followed the instructions for that video and was impressed/a little shocked when I watched it the second time.

I would guess that it's because your eyes are drawn down lower (the white team bounce it lower at the right point) and you are consciously ignoring the dark team's legs in order to focus on the white team.

Interesting stuff.

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Old 01-08-2009, 03:12 PM   #54
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Default Re: What are YOU thinking?

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I look to her left, she turns to the right.
I look to her right, and she turns left.

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Old 01-08-2009, 03:13 PM   #55
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Default Re: What are YOU thinking?

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Hi,

RE - the gorilla. I followed the instructions for that video and was impressed/a little shocked when I watched it the second time.

I would guess that it's because your eyes are drawn down lower (the white team bounce it lower at the right point) and you are consciously ignoring the dark team's legs in order to focus on the white team.

Interesting stuff.
Believe it or not, I saw the "gorilla" the first time I watched it, but nobody believes me when I tell them so.

Thomas
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Old 01-08-2009, 03:19 PM   #56
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Default Re: What are YOU thinking?

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Originally Posted by Angela V. Edwards View Post
It doesn't matter how I shift my eyes or if I look at it out of the corner of my eye, I can't make that thing go counter-clockwise.
Angela, if you can be bothered, take a piece of paper and cover up the picture but show only the shadow. Slowly lift the paper up the screen. This may allow you eyes to be tricked to seeing it move in the opposite direction.

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Old 01-08-2009, 03:27 PM   #57
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Default Re: What are YOU thinking?

Clockwise . . . I put it on my desktop to watch and it moves slower yet still clockwise.

Great thread!

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Old 01-08-2009, 03:27 PM   #58
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Default Re: What are YOU thinking?

I'm curious about something.

The picture IS moving, right? That part isn't an illusion.

Which means it has to be going in some kind of direction, right?

Well there's only two directions that I know of, right and left.

So which one is it?

This kind of stuff drives me crazy.

Honestly, I really don't get how it can't be moving in some direction.

Is there some kind of scientific piece somewhere that explains this?

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Old 01-08-2009, 03:32 PM   #59
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Default Re: What are YOU thinking?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

The picture IS moving, right? That part isn't an illusion.

Which means it has to be going in some kind of direction, right?

Well there's only two directions that I know of, right and left.
Steven, you've just answered your own question. Right and left isn't the same as clockwise and counter clockwise.

Think about it.


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Old 01-08-2009, 03:33 PM   #60
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Default Re: What are YOU thinking?

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Believe it or not, I saw the "gorilla" the first time I watched it, but nobody believes me when I tell them so.

Thomas
Are you talking about the basketball video Thomas? If so than how can anyone miss the gorilla. I saw it the first time as well.

If something else then post the link. I always liked this type of stuff.

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Old 01-08-2009, 03:35 PM   #61
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Default Re: What are YOU thinking?

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Are you talking about the basketball video Thomas? If so than how can anyone miss the gorilla. I saw it the first time as well.

If something else then post the link. I always liked this type of stuff.
Yeah...that's the one. Great minds...or is it great names, eh Thomas?

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Old 01-08-2009, 03:36 PM   #62
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Default Re: What are YOU thinking?

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Yeah...that's the one. Great minds...or is it great names, eh Thomas?

Thomas
I will take all the help I can get. lol

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Old 01-08-2009, 03:38 PM   #63
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Default Re: What are YOU thinking?

Okay, my wife just came home and we conducted a test.

Take what you want out of it.

I told her to look at the picture turning. I asked her what direction she saw
it turning in. I saw it left to right. She said the same thing.

I then said to her, okay, when you see the picture change direction to right
to left, yell "now". I'll do the same.

Each time the picture changed direction we both yelled now at the same
time.

The picture is changing the way it is bouncing, rotating or whatever you
want to call it. We did this for 5 minutes, each time successfully telling
when the picture changed direction.

Either are brains are connected or there is some actual random programming
to this photo.

Like I said, take what you want out of it.

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Old 01-08-2009, 03:41 PM   #64
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Default Re: What are YOU thinking?

I asked my wife to do the gorilla test and she missed it the first time. lol

You should have seen the look on her face when I asked if she saw the gorilla.

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Old 01-08-2009, 03:48 PM   #65
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Default Re: What are YOU thinking?

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I'm curious about something.

The picture IS moving, right? That part isn't an illusion.

Which means it has to be going in some kind of direction, right?

Well there's only two directions that I know of, right and left.

So which one is it?

This kind of stuff drives me crazy.

Honestly, I really don't get how it can't be moving in some direction.

Is there some kind of scientific piece somewhere that explains this?
All animation is an illusion Steven. Tom and Jerry is just a series of stills played close enough to trick the eye in believing it's moving

The animated gif will occasionally stutter, it's not changing 'direction' it's merely faltering in its rendering. The reason both you and your wife saw it change direction at the same time was simply that your eyes were given the chance to perceive it changing because of the stutter.

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Old 01-08-2009, 03:56 PM   #66
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Default Re: What are YOU thinking?

Hi,

For the gorilla video, I presume the best approach is to tell someone to watch it and count the white team passes. If anything, allow them to formulate the idea that the trick is something to do with catching them out regarding how many passes are made.

If there is no mention of gorillas, or no hint that they should be focussing elsewhere, then I guess it increases the likelihood of the illusion working.

Quote:
Either are brains are connected or there is some actual random programming to this photo.[snip]The picture is changing the way it is bouncing, rotating or whatever you want to call it
You crack me up Steven.

Hi Thomas B,

Quote:
I asked my wife to do the gorilla test and she missed it the first time. lol
I asked my gorilla to to do the test and he said, "Where are the people and the basketball?"

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Old 01-08-2009, 03:57 PM   #67
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Default Re: What are YOU thinking?

Very cool - for me she's always turning clockwise. Except when I focus on the shadow only, then she turns anticlockwise.

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Old 01-08-2009, 04:06 PM   #68
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Default Re: What are YOU thinking?

which type of brain test is this
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Old 01-08-2009, 04:10 PM   #69
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Default Re: What are YOU thinking?

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which type of brain test is this
The one between most people's ears

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Old 01-08-2009, 04:11 PM   #70
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Default Re: What are YOU thinking?

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Hi Thomas B,



I asked my gorilla to to do the test and he said, "Where are the people and the basketball?"

Rog, what kind of house are you living in?

I may send my wife over. hehe

Thomas
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Old 01-08-2009, 04:17 PM   #71
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Default Re: What are YOU thinking?

Steven,

Dude, you're SOoooo determined to make this something sinister and sneaky. More drama? Or just a desperate focus on appearances being simple and dependable?

I'll assume you've seen the picture that, from one perspective, looks like a beautiful young woman at a dressing table, and, from another, looks like an ugly old woman in a scarf. This is somewhat similar in effect, although not precisely.

Perspective depends on a lot of things. Most perspective is subjective, and that causes some people a big problem. They want appearances, as they perceive them, to be constant and unchanging.

Stuff like this will mess with a lot of folks, because they don't want to believe their eyes will play tricks on them, much less their minds, which are what does it for these types of demonstrations.

Your brain constantly interprets things, filling in gaps, assigning meaning and "fact" based on recognition skills, momentary laterality (which side of the brain you're using as primary right now), lighting, and a ton of other factors.

Understanding that, as it plays out in day to day life, is what creates "the wisdom of age." It's not about experience, it's about understanding the role of experience in how we interpret things, and knowing just how often those interpretations can be completely wrong.

I spoke with a woman earlier today who "gets" this at 30, and has for a long time. I've spoken with plenty of people in their 70's and 80's who still don't get it. (We in the trade call those people "old fools.")

Instead of looking for a conspiracy, take this as a lesson in the mutability of perception. That's not only more accurate, it's more productive.

Understanding just how much of our daily experience is a matter of how we choose to look at things is a liberating lesson.


Paul
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Old 01-08-2009, 04:22 PM   #72
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Default Re: What are YOU thinking?

Hi Thomas B,
Quote:
Rog, what kind of house are you living in?

I may send my wife over. hehe
"Welcome to the monkey house Mrs. Belknap. Would you like a cup of tea? We're having a party...when I grow up I want to be a monkey God."

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Old 01-08-2009, 04:24 PM   #73
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Default Re: What are YOU thinking?

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Hi Thomas B,


"Welcome to the monkey house Mrs. Belknap. Would you like a cup of tea? We're having a party..."

PG Tips I trust...or is it more of the Lewis Carroll variety?

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Old 01-08-2009, 04:24 PM   #74
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Default Re: What are YOU thinking?

How cool is that

One question.. what does it mean when it flips vertical?

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Old 01-08-2009, 04:27 PM   #75
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How cool is that

One question.. what does it mean when it flips vertical?

Louis
Brain Aneurysm.

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Old 01-08-2009, 04:31 PM   #76
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Default Re: What are YOU thinking?

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Perspective depends on a lot of things. Most perspective is subjective, and that causes some people a big problem. They want appearances, as they perceive them, to be constant and unchanging.

Understanding that, as it plays out in day to day life, is what creates "the wisdom of age." It's not about experience, it's about understanding the role of experience in how we interpret things, and knowing just how often those interpretations can be completely wrong.

Instead of looking for a conspiracy, take this as a lesson in the mutability of perception. That's not only more accurate, it's more productive.

Understanding just how much of our daily experience is a matter of how we choose to look at things is a liberating lesson.

Paul
Paul you have brilliantly summed up the whole point of this thread.

I would also really love to hear Paul Hancox take on this too...



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Old 01-08-2009, 04:33 PM   #77
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Default Re: What are YOU thinking?

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Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post
I'm curious about something.

The picture IS moving, right? That part isn't an illusion.

Which means it has to be going in some kind of direction, right?

Well there's only two directions that I know of, right and left.

So which one is it?

This kind of stuff drives me crazy.

Honestly, I really don't get how it can't be moving in some direction.

Is there some kind of scientific piece somewhere that explains this?
Steven,

She is neither moving counter clockwise or clockwise.

Pixels are moving from left to right, up and down.

No spinning what so ever just going to one side to another

Louis

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Old 01-08-2009, 04:35 PM   #78
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Default Re: What are YOU thinking?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post
Understanding just how much of our daily experience is a matter of how we choose to look at things is a liberating lesson.
Ooh. I'm saving that one



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Old 01-08-2009, 04:38 PM   #79
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Default Re: What are YOU thinking?

The brain work weird and is very mysterious....

Thanks so much for that!

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Old 01-08-2009, 04:55 PM   #80
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Default Re: What are YOU thinking?

Hi TomW,

PG tips of course.

Hi Paul (also Seye post #69),

My personal perspective is that peoples' reactions and conclusions are the most interesting test results from this. And the reason I feel that these things are valuable is that I think it's beneficial for anyone (particularly those in business) to consider increasing their ability, and inclination to -

a) ask questions of themselves about the things that they see around them that make them go 'hmmm'

b) quickly arrive at logical decisions about how something 'works' and lessen the time it takes to reach a final conclusion

c) apply the lessons that they learn from these processes to other areas of life to see if new lessons are learnt

Put another way, it's wise to develop a habit of 'looking behind the curtain' and double-checking oneself for faulty assumptions.

For example - consider how much time each of us might spend reading/learning/absorbing information, and bear in mind that a small increase in one's ability to recognise and discount a large proportion of what is put 'in front' of us, is going to allow us to get to the meat a lot quicker - hence the gains from the time and effort spent on these things, is going to increase exponentially.

{added clarification - this was in response to Paul's post, as a follow on, but it's worth mentioning that it was from reading his views in the first place that I became more interested in the above approach. I hope that that's clearer.}


Last edited by ExRat; 01-08-2009 at 05:55 PM. Reason: to add clarification
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Old 01-08-2009, 04:56 PM   #81
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Default Re: What are YOU thinking?

Thomas,
Quote:
Paul you have brilliantly summed up the whole point of this thread.
Tankeweverrymutch! For my next trick, watch me pull a rabbit out of... HEY! What's a rabbit doing in my hat?
Quote:
I would also really love to hear Paul Hancox take on this too...
That would indeed be interesting.


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Old 01-08-2009, 05:05 PM   #82
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Default Re: What are YOU thinking?

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What's a rabbit doing in my hat?

Paul
I think it escaped from Roger's tea party...it probably prefers a sly sip of fine malt to Darjeeling...



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Old 01-08-2009, 05:15 PM   #83
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Default Re: What are YOU thinking?

Tomw,

You've ruined my perfectly good day because now I can only see it going clockwise and I'm totally bothered!!
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Old 01-08-2009, 05:19 PM   #84
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Default Re: What are YOU thinking?

Thomas,
Quote:
I think it escaped from Roger's tea party...it probably prefers a sly sip of fine malt to Darjeeling...
Glenlivet to Glengettie? Laphroaig to Lipton? Edradour to Earl Grey? Blue to Bigelow? Or, stepping down a notch... Original Grouse to orange pekoe? Chivas to chai?

Good rabbit. We'll have the grouse for lunch instead.


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Old 01-08-2009, 05:21 PM   #85
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Default Re: What are YOU thinking?

Wow, I'm excited. I can see it going left!!

I squeezed my eyes nearly shut and peeked out a little and then it turned the other way. When opened them, it continued to turn left until I squinted real hard and it turned right again. But I can do see it both ways at will now.
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Old 01-08-2009, 05:46 PM   #86
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Default Re: What are YOU thinking?

Tom,
I love this pic. I saw it in the mind warriors forum before and right from the start I could see her going in both directions. It is all about perceptions. Some will see it one way and one way alone, others will see it the opposite way and still others control their own perception and the ways in which they veiw the world and this image.

Great to see all the different minds in here and the way others view and perceive things.

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Old 01-08-2009, 06:00 PM   #87
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Default Re: What are YOU thinking?

Bizarre....

At first I could only see it spinning clockwise. Finally with much effort, if I looked down at the shadow, I could change my perception and see it spinning the other way for only a few seconds, before it randomly started to spin clockwise again.

Continuing to practice, I'm now at the point where I can control which way I see it spinning by looking at the shadow of the shoe, and I'm gaining a bit of control over which way it spins by looking at the whole thing.

If I continue to practice, I think I could develop complete control over which way I see it spinning.

Fascinating....I'm right brained by nature, but apparently easily trainable. Hmmmm.....that's information I should probably keep away from my wife.

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Old 01-08-2009, 06:01 PM   #88
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Default Re: What are YOU thinking?

Roger,

That's one effective lesson to take from it. The time savings alone can be huge, not to mention the expense avoided from bad decisions.

For me, the most useful parts of figuring out that perspective is malleable were learning to adjust my own and to see those of others. It's very hard not to like people when you realize how much we're all alike.


Paul
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Old 01-08-2009, 06:02 PM   #89
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Did you guys see the 'find the man in the coffee beans' picture as well?

http://www.theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php?p=27

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Old 01-08-2009, 06:20 PM   #90
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Thomas,Glenlivet to Glengettie? Laphroaig to Lipton? Edradour to Earl Grey? Blue to Bigelow? Or, stepping down a notch... Original Grouse to orange pekoe? Chivas to chai?

Good rabbit. We'll have the grouse for lunch instead.


Paul
Or Bruichladdich to Big Red Robe Oolong, which is exactly what I have just done...probably anathema, but it helps me sleep better.

It's getting late here!



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Old 01-08-2009, 06:25 PM   #91
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Tom,
I love this pic. I saw it in the mind warriors forum before and right from the start I could see her going in both directions. It is all about perceptions. Some will see it one way and one way alone, others will see it the opposite way and still others control their own perception and the ways in which they view the world and this image.

Great to see all the different minds in here and the way others view and perceive things.

Sylvia
Thanks Sylvia. Yes, reading others' views and reactions has been a real treat. It was part of the motivation for posting and ultimately formulated a considerable amount of the "message," by creating real examples!

Great blog post today btw.



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Old 01-08-2009, 06:36 PM   #92
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Thanks Tom, glad you enjoyed it

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Old 01-08-2009, 06:37 PM   #93
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Hi Paul,

(I added a note to my previous post)

Quote:
For me, the most useful parts of figuring out that perspective is malleable were learning to adjust my own and to see those of others. It's very hard not to like people when you realize how much we're all alike.
Likewise, for the first sentence. But I must admit the major benefit you mentioned in the second would be different for me. I can see the benefits of that benefit though.

I find that currently it is helping me to have more accurate expectations, and therefore be more comfortable with outcomes - whether they are my own, or of others. And in a way, perhaps rather than helping me to see how alike people are, that was something that I over-estimated previously. Perhaps, I didn't realise how differently I saw things to other people, or why.

Also, by realising how much perceptions are malleable, we can take more personal control of them and be more picky about who we allow to alter them. Time for bed. I'm overstraining my pea-sized head-jelly.

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Old 01-08-2009, 06:38 PM   #94
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WOW!..this is unbelievably cool.

I saw it running counterclockwise at first then when I scrolled down and refocused on it again it went clockwise. Which shocked me. I started to think like Steve Wags and thought it was a timed animated GIF.

Great fun!
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Old 01-08-2009, 06:44 PM   #95
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Interesting.

In the article Eric pointed to, the author suggests that this effect has nothing to do with laterality. Okay, I can buy that. I tried a different approach, and found that you can get the change by shifting focus a bit at the right time.

What's fun, and somewhat interesting, is that doing a lateral shift created the same change for me. Clearly it's not indicative of lateral dominance, but is it affected by it?

Interesting stuff indeed.


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Old 01-08-2009, 06:48 PM   #96
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OK I figured it out now. As another poster suggested just focus on the shadow of the two feet at the bottom. Just look away and look back and it will change direction. I can now do it at will. Over and over again.

Very interesting.
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Old 01-08-2009, 06:49 PM   #97
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Roger,

That the benefit of the second would be different for you is a matter of perspective.

Seriously, I believe we're talking about "alikeness" from different angles. I mean something very much at the root of what we all want and need. The surface stuff is, lergely, a matter of how we choose to go about getting it.

And yeah, it's great for learning to set boundaries and expectations. When we see how people go after what they want, we can more easily see where their approaches will conflict with our own.


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Old 01-08-2009, 07:02 PM   #98
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Quote:
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I hate it when that happens...


On a serious note, it would be interesting to see how many successful IMers are RT brained vs LT brained. My guess is a RT brained individule will have an easier time implimenting any given strategy and running with it.


KJ
I would like to go back to this thought about who might be more successful as an IMer...I'm thinking that RT brained individuals might come up with new concepts & services, while the LT brained folks would be the better implementers. Being RT brained myself, I'm always excited by the big picture, but struggle with making the nitty gritty happen. Any comments?
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Old 01-08-2009, 07:03 PM   #99
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Forgot to sign my name...still am a "newbie"

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Old 01-08-2009, 07:09 PM   #100
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Clockwise, that's really cool!
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