Richard A.Cox

I was surprised to find this sort of tosh in the 'Warrior' forums.

So, to reprise my earlier post I would like to point out the weakness of such flawed beliefs.

I am aware than many successful people propagate versions of this so-called law.

But remember, they want to sell to as wide an audience as possible.



Let's not exclude the daydreamers, hey!





*****************



There is a true story about an Englishman who was in New York on business strolling along the sidewalk.

He passes a ringing public payphone, and, out of curiosity, answers it.

The person on the phone is known to him, it is a colleague from his London office.

They had intended to ring someone else in New York, but mis-dialled and he happened to answer.

Now here is the point.

If he had been thinking about that person or his office, this event would have seemed like magic, or the LOA.

But it would have happened anyway.

People with flimsy belief systems are happy to attach the 'LOA" label when if works in their favour.

But do not in the TRILLIONS of instances when it does not.

You are fooling yourselves by attaching great importance to nothing more than a series of coincidences where you are the sole arbiter.

For every LOA event that 'works' there are several trillion that do not - thereby disproving the theory, using the very same logic.

so, to summarize.


The 'Law' of Attraction is a fiction and does not exist in any way, shape or form.

As long a you have faith in it, you will look for reasons to support it, so you don't look like an idiot. That is human nature.

Give it up and get real.

Life is much more fun that way.

pavondunbar

I 150% disagree with you, Mr Cox.

But...

To each his own.

May you have much success and prosperity in anything you do.

Pavon

My sig is on its lunch break for now.

michellec

Actually, my 'flimsy belief system' also means that I attach the 'LOA' label when things DON'T work in my favour.

I am responsible for my results, good OR bad.

Watching The Secret and thinking THAT is all there is to the law of attraction, is like reading a single post in this forum and thinking you know all there is to know about IM. And if you gain knowledge, but don't apply it or test it, what results can you expect?

Tosh? Not in my experience, but I don't need anyone to agree with my viewpoint.

Cheers,
M

Scott Chambers

There seems to be a lot of misconception about the LOA and films like the secret.
It can all be explained in one phrase very simply...

You get what you give!

That's it really. Okay, like anything else you can go in to more detail if you so wish. But basically, know what you want, find out what's stopping you getting it, get rid of those roadblocks and get on with it.

BTW, I should point out that nobody in the secret, or any subsequent material claims that you can "daydream" yourself to success. They ALL say that you must get off your backside. For some reason, a lot of people have missed that point, or chosen not to listen.

Monique Abrams

Richard~

Interesting Post.

In my opinion, life is full of things you can control and things you can't control, but change is an ally to both. Often, people view life with one or the other instead of understanding life contains both.

The Law of Attraction explains how your thought processes can control the outcome of events in your life, which is very true. Do you agree with that part?

Still, there is chance and things you cannot control. Because this is also true, that does not discredit the Law of Attraction. Both Exist.

parrott

I like the "access' tool of 'all of life comes to me with ease, joy and glory'....that means everything...good and bad.
LP

LP
http://www.beginnerslistbuildingmachine.com

Loren Woirhaye

Richard,

I think it is B.S. too, but there isn't much point arguing against
another person's belief system. You might want to read Kevin
Hogan's book "the 12 Principles of Business Success" where
he deconstructs the inaccurate thinking so prevalent today
and shows what is really going on, neurologically and psychologically.

IMO Napoleon Hill would be appalled by the nonsense being
peddled today. It's easy to say he's an exponent on LOA
attraction stuff but there is one section in the back of the
book where he writes about "accurate thinking" - but I think
a lot of today's readers miss that part or don't get that far.

Looking for a Marketing Breakthrough? (Selling copy and competitive stratagems developed for you)

Ray Erdmann

Ditto here too as well!

But as said, why force your opinion and/or belief onto someone else.

"Why Duplicate Mediocrity...When You Can Duplicate Success?

"...If you’re reading this, then you need to direct your attention elsewhere…as there’s nothing of importance here…YET!"

Richard A.Cox

You cannot do anything '150%'

although I appreciate the sentiment.

Richard A.Cox

You may take responsibility for your results, but that does not mean you have control.

I didn't refer exclusively to 'the Secret'. I referenced works over a century old.

It's ALL tosh

Richard A.Cox

All that is true, it's just not what the daydreamers claim is happening

Richard A.Cox

I agree with the exception of part where you refer a non-existent 'Law'

Richard A.Cox

I don't see anyone forcing anything on anybody.

Richard A.Cox

Cool, off to Amazon I go.

pavondunbar

No problem, Richard...

Glad you appreciate the sentiment...

And about the 150%...

It's a figure of speech...

Have a good day, sir! I disagree with your post like I stated earlier...

But...

I 150% respect your opinion.

Pavon

My sig is on its lunch break for now.

Richard A.Cox

Ah yes, you may use it whilst being aware it is an impossibilty.

Remind you of anything else?

Many people use that phrase without really understanding it's meaning, just as some 'daydreamers' invoke quantum mechanics to 'explain' the 'LOA'.

I have seen other forums with posts dating back to 2003 from people who have swallowed the LOA fiction hook, line and sinker.

Go there today and you will see the same people living the same lives, bemoaning thier lack of 'success' . They are often told by people who publish this rubbish that they must be 'doing it wrong'

Some clever marketers have even come up with a 'produce your own LOA movie' kit, presumably aimed at people with limited imaginations.

(and technical knowledge - windows movie maker will suffice for such projects-and in most cases it's already on your PC)

So we have more people finding more ways to extract money from the terminally gullible.

Shameful.

mindauggas

you can not arrive to such conclusions by giving an example...

LOA is yeat a hyphothesis by it makes sence when you look to it from different points of view:

1. your brain and thought are in your body > therefore they must do some changes to it...
2. body and behaviour are affected, then it comes to your frind circle, social skills and most importantly actions> and it brings success or whatever....(i have a huge theory on that)
3. mind can not tell the difference between your thoughts and real events...
4. how can you know that this thing(you described) is not caused by LOA in some way
5. read some philosophy and phisics before criticizing and please stop making assumptions from one examlpe...
6 it seems that you are trying to mock everything... but thats just you...


P.S. i'm nottrying to protect anything, LOA makes sence to me and i have seen a lot of evidence in my own life.... but its still a theory that you cant prove scientificaly but we know 4 fact that science changes very quicly so we can not count on it too...

P.S.S. if energy does not dissapear ... where do you think the energy of a thought goes? (thats from phisics..)

gave a nice day...

Richard A.Cox

Thanks for your input, my replies as follows.


1. Agreed
2. Yep, no problemo with that
3. Unproven Speculation
4. How can you know it is?
5. Neither of which support the so called LOA
6. Really?


PS. Yes, and if you wait long enough science may prove that Pixies exist and werewolves roam the forests. I wouldn't hold your breath waiting though.

PPS. Thought is not energy.

JasonFinch

I do agree that there is a lot of hype about the LOA -- but what most people don't talk about is how to remove the emotional blockers that consistently prevent what we want most...

This is the ONLY THING I do NOW cuz it FRIGGIN works like Gang-busters -- 7 Figure Marketing School

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ZigZag

Personally I believe in The Law Of Attraction in the sense that we "attract" the people and circumstances into our life that resonate with our dominant thoughts.

For instance a happy-go-lucky, friendly type of person is more likely to attract the same kind of people into their life. And a person who is focusing on all the beauty in the World will see evidence of that everywhere and that will be "attracted" into their life.

For me all of this happens because of proven psychological principles. I don't believe that vibrations are sent out to The Universe or anything metaphysical or supernatural is going on.

So keeping in mind that what you focus on you will "attract" into your life—because of the extraordinary power of the human mind—there's a lot to be gained from practicing The Law Of Attraction. (Even if you don't believe the mystical part of it.)

You wouldn't throw away a box of apples just because one of them is rotten, and you'd be missing out if you didn't practice certain principles that come under The Law Of Attraction umbrella.

For instance:






They also discuss developing an "Attitude Of Gratitude."

And this has also been scientifically proven by Dr. Steven Teopfer in a study where students wrote letters of gratitude for to people who had positively impacted their lives. After each letter the students completed a survey to gauge mood, satisfaction with life, and feelings of gratitude and happiness. "I saw their happiness increase after each letter. Meaning the more they wrote, better they felt" says Teopfer.

75% of the students said they planned to continue to write letters of gratitude even when the course was over. "We are all walking around with an amazing resource: gratitude," says Toepfer. "It helps us express and enjoy, appreciate, be thankful and satisfied with a little effort. We all have it, and we need to use it to improve our quality of life."

And I'm sure there's even more proven techniques in The Secret and Law Of Attraction material in general. So I basically apply the "take-what's-useful-and-leave-the-rest" technique when it comes to The Law Of Attraction.

"Magic is believing in yourself, if you can do that, you can make anything happen."—Johann Wolfgang Von Goethe

Pat Ordenes

I can say that I am fond of the LOA...
But there is another LOA that we marketers must exercise and stress more so:
The Law Of Action!


"...ideas are about the cheapest of all commodities... But the supply of men who can execute ideas and make money out of them is pitifully small." - Bruce Barton, 1936.

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TheAge

While I don't believe in the LOA, and I think the mindsets propogated by movies such as The Secret is wishful shortcut thinking, I do think it is important to not discount the very real workings of the 'Self fulfilling prophecy', or the 'Pygmalion Effect'.

That is, when thinking in a positive manner, you'll have reason to stay motivated and do the work necessary for success, as opposed to being caught in a negative mindset, not expecting much from yourself, and thus not bothering to lift a finger.

If you treat yourself well and respect yourself, you're going to expect more from yourself and live up to your values.

If you're a negative thinker and think you are undeserving of any success, well, then you're not going to pursue your values because you're convinced you're not worthy of them.

- Adrian

ZigZag

If people are getteing results because of practicing Law Of Attraction techniques and principles—and they're more successful and happier than ever—then why come into the forum and start preaching against it?

I have a gratitude rock which I learned from The Secret and it's a wonderful exercise. I'm not expecting a Ferrari to fall in to my lap because of it however it's still a productive exercise. And I'm happier because of it.

Personally I believe that there's things going on in this World and The Universe that we're yet to understand.

Thousounds of years ago people would have been killed for proposing that the Earth was round instead of flat. And at one point in time people had to go into hiding by joining various secret societies because of their beliefs of science instead of religion to understand the World.

Now whether The Law Of Attraction is something that will be proved or partly explained at some point in the future is debatable however I always think it's good to keep an open mind.

"Magic is believing in yourself, if you can do that, you can make anything happen."—Johann Wolfgang Von Goethe

bergie812

People can believe whatever helps them get what they want. If the LOA works for them great if not fine. Just be happy and be the best you can be.

Richard A.Cox

Preaching? It is my opinion. That's what happens in forums, people give out their viewpoints.



An open mind is one thing. Spouting fiction as fact is another

Lisa aka LJ

A sign that the Law of Attraction works is that I am increasingly unconcerned with people thinking it doesn't work.

Lisa J. Lehr
Just Right Copy
www.justrightcopy.com
Just Right Articles
www.lisawritesarticles.com

Wizardofwisdom

Well, Mr. Cox, not very scientific as an argument, is it?

I have seriously examined both sides of this argument, and I have been forced to conclude that the LOA must exist - there actually is no alternative.

But, Mr. Cox, I wonder if you have read the scientific evidence that more than bears this out ... look up Dean Radin, Candace Pert, Amit Goswami, Deepak Chopra, Gregg Braden et. al. Forget "The Secret" - watch "What The Bleep Do We Know?" ... and then come back and say it's "tosh."

Still, you started a good debate, and I'm pleased to have attracted you into my reality for that purpose!

So thanks.

Trev.

Never Be A Victim Of Circumstance Again! http://www.master-success-secrets.com

Loren Woirhaye

"What The Bleep..." is a house-organ for the Ramtha
organization and some of the participants, particularly the
scientists, were unhappy with the way their work was
portrayed. It's a fun movie with some engaging ideas
in it but it is not credible scientifically. There is a long
list of critics and their comments summarized on
Wikipedia.

Looking for a Marketing Breakthrough? (Selling copy and competitive stratagems developed for you)

ZigZag

Perhaps you're not preaching then.

However you should be made aware that your posts are coming across as forcing your opinions on others and what I call "preaching." I'm not the first person to think that either.

To me it doesn't seem like you're interested in debating or having a discussion at all. And you can't blame me when you keep saying stuff like:

"Give it up and get real ..."
"It's ALL tosh ..."
"It's just not what the daydreamers claim is happening ..."
"I was surprised to find this sort of tosh in the 'Warrior' forums ..."

The "tosh" you're talking about is something that people are passionate about and something that has been improving their lives. Many people are seeing real results from practicing The Law Of Attraction and I think that should be respected whether you believe in it or not.

You can't expect people to think you're having a discussion when you keep putting your point of view across like that. You're entitled to your opinion of course and I actually agree with you however you're coming across negatively to people.

The next logical (and childish) thing for people to say in these kind of discussions is: "That's their problem." Well personally I'd want to know that my posts are coming across the wrong way because then I can change my approach next time.

So I hope you appreciate me giving you a heads up.

"Magic is believing in yourself, if you can do that, you can make anything happen."—Johann Wolfgang Von Goethe

Karen Blundell

mindmovies.com...yes, when I saw that site I was like, whoa what a rip-off. I created my own "mind movie" using , you guessed it, Windows Movie Maker.
Regarding the Law of Attraction: I do believe that "thoughts are things, so think good thoughts"...
ie: positive thoughts+belief in yourself+inspired action=desired results

I think most people ignore the inspired action part

Richard A.Cox

Well, Mr um, Wizard

Good for you.

Those people you mention are no different from the 'scientists' that tobacco companies used to hire to say passive smoking couldnt harm you. Everyone has an agenda.

.

Richard A.Cox

Yes Mr Zag, I do appreciate the 'heads-up'.

Thank you

jasdon

So, what's yours?

Happiness, Peace, Security, Fulfillment.

Richard A.Cox

The clue is in the title of the thread

jasdon

I don't believe in pointing to other peoples work or videos etc to desribe what I know, so let me explain to you why you are wrong.

The LOA is irrefutable; here's why;

You consciously think about something in a certain way, and your subconscious guides you toward it, and maybe, it to you. Therefore, some of the stuff that comes your way, is a product of your thought. (Not to be confused with coincidence, as per your example with the guy answering the phone - which you claim to be a true story - unless you were one of the guys on the phone, you can't know that for a fact - actually, it sounds like something from a Derren Brown book, 'Tricks of the Mind' perhaps?).

This can be proven. Before you type out a post, you must first think about it. You must think (probably on a mid-conscious level) of each letter - if not, you can't type it, right?
The same is true for everything in your life - going to the shops, making money, driving a car....breathing, which you do on a subconscious level via instinct.

No-one can make a penny unless they have thought it previously. LOA isn't some wierd mumbo jumbo - it's just a fact of life, like photosynthesis or gravity, it's there, and undeniable. So it follows, that if you want something to happen, you first need to think about it in a certain way.

You cannot do anything at all, unless the thought of doing it has taken place.

Now whether you believe it or not is upto you. But whether you believe it or not, makes not difference to it's being real.

Happiness, Peace, Security, Fulfillment.

Richard A.Cox

Bad start - here I am refuting it.


Acutally scientists believe it's the other way around

And regardless of whether or not the example I gave is true, you cannot claim that conicidence does not exist.

So what? That has nothing to do with any fictional, unproven laws

.

ZigZag

Yeah it should probably be called "The Theory Of Attraction" considering that's it's unproven.

I don't have a problem with people believing that there's something else going on in The Universe that we're not aware of because I respect open mindedness however calling it a law when it's mostly theory is where they run into trouble.

The creator of The Secret is actually quite "out there." She's said some strange stuff including that we attract everything that happens to us. (Including the weather and natural disasters.)

When someone challenged people about children attracting child abuse some Law Of Attraction practitioners said they intended it to happen and it's because of something they did in a past life. That's just too "out there" for me. Personally I don't believe that we attract everything that happens to us.

That said I do like a lot of the principles and techniques in The Secret and I'm open to possibility that we attract people and circumstances by a process that we're not aware of.

"Magic is believing in yourself, if you can do that, you can make anything happen."—Johann Wolfgang Von Goethe

jasdon

As I said in my previous post, it's irrelevant that you refute it - that makes no difference to it's reality.

If I am wrong - and you are right - tell me how you do something without previously having thought about it.


Yeah, see, this is why I prefer people to try and use their own brains rather than repeat stuff they've read - if you don't, you are only as intelligent as your source (at best) and here the source is unknown.

I didn't, and I don't. Coincidence usually has very little with ones self; it is an action 'to' rather than an action 'of'.




You say unproven - my proof is that you nor anyone else can do anything without first thinking about it.

Unless you can disprove this - you have the choice of either accepting it, or to live in ignorance (while still using it tens of thousands of times a day).

Happiness, Peace, Security, Fulfillment.

ZigZag

That's a good point actually Jasdon. I'm not sure if it proves The Law Of Attraction but you're definitely right that everything we accomplish starts of as an idea in the mind.

Reminds me of the following quotation: "Watch your thoughts for they become your words. Whatch your words for they become your actions. Watch your actions for they become your character. Watch your character for it becomes your destiny."

And: "All that we are is a result of what we have thought."—Buddha

"Magic is believing in yourself, if you can do that, you can make anything happen."—Johann Wolfgang Von Goethe

Richard A.Cox

There you are, something I can agree with.

Richard A.Cox

Quite, just as irrelevant as your contention of it's existence.

And the burden of proof is with you.

jasdon

Firstly, you started the thread saying that LOA is fiction - the burden of proof lies (abviously quite heavily) on your shoulders. If you'd named your thread 'prove to me that LOA isn't fiction', then it would be the other way round...

Now, this is the third time I've written this, so please, try to understand it this time;

Everything you do, first starts off as a thought. That is the LOA in a nutshell. You can't lift a cup to your lips without first thinking it. That is proof positive of it's excistence. You cannot do anything without first thinking it - therefore, what you think about in a certain way, can be created.

To prove me wrong, you must give examples of things you do without it first being a thought in your conscious or subconscious mind.

Can you do that?

Happiness, Peace, Security, Fulfillment.

Richard A.Cox

Ahem, to correct you.

Your statement has nothing whatsoever to do with what the daydreamers are claiming. I have already agreed with the point you are making.

Go read it again, if you need reminding.

Acting on thoughts is not a contention and never has been.

If you really want me to start quoting the fiction back to you I can do, but as you claim to know all about the 'Law' of attraction' there should be no need.



Since many of the claims of the law of attraction appear impossible without violating established scientific principles and our understanding of the universe, it has received criticism from the scientific community.

The Associated Press is also quoted as saying that "some medical professionals suggest it could even lead to a blame-the-victim mentality and actually be dangerous to those suffering from serious illness or mental disorders".

Physicist Ali Alousi, for instance, criticized it as unmeasurable (and therefore unscientific) as well as questioning the likelihood that thoughts can affect anything outside the head.

jasdon

I can only talk on what I see as the LOA - this is why I don't like to quote others or hand out links to youtube videos etc.

Otherwise, it just gets into a joke with one side realing out their 'expert' and the other side seeing or raising with theirs...

So we agree that the basics are real - without the embellishments or fantasy that some people try to attach to it.

Happiness, Peace, Security, Fulfillment.

Richard A.Cox

Yep, I will go with that.

Firaatje

If you keep a closed mind, you won't see what kind of wonders happen in this world everyday. And i don't care if it is LOA of whatever. I believe that everything that happens in one's life is a result of the choices we are making everyday. It doesn't matter if you are a sceptic or a believer. The point is, to take responsibility for your own result that you get in your life.

Just a 24 year old woman who lives in the beautyfull Europe. Loves to write on my site's and i work during the day.

Mode and fashion blog
My jeans site

parrott

RIGHT! The key is to remove those emotional blocks so you have the freedom to make choices based on now, not on all that emotional garbage from the past

LP
http://www.beginnerslistbuildingmachine.com

TheAge

Whether thinking positively helps you, or you thought about getting that carpark at work this morning and BAM!, you get it, does absolutely NOT mean some supernatural law governing the universe to help you exists at all.

I wish people would give themselves more credit, instead of attributing their own success and hard work to some prehistoric metaphysical idea.

- Adrian

softwarefilt

What you are talking about here is confirmations bias, which humans are known to act on. We have an eye for things that support our beliefs, and tend to ignore things that go against our beliefs. Completely natural.

I agree that the LOA needs to be treated in a more scientific manner, but I disagree that science has somehow disproven it.

~Tracey
Filtering Software

solardave

I would rather believe in something and find out it's not true, then waste my life not believing in anything.At least I have purpose. Just my Opinion.

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