Is Law of Attraction Evil?

9 years ago

The law of attraction is neither good or evil but neutral in the same way any natural law is, like gravity.
it's the intentions, value and morals of the wielder which determine the results and whether they are good or evil.

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kirbymarketingconcierge

9 years ago

it was a good idea that people could believe, did believe in, wanted to believe in,

And that they could profit from.

self-interest trumps self-improvement

no criticism intended, just reality in this "mind forum"

WF listing this forum states:

Mind Warriors (195 Viewing)
All topics related to self-improvement. Power, energy and creativity translates into being able to make more money.

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heavysm

9 years ago

LoA is anything but evil. It's like the opposite of evil because you're opening yourself up to becoming a more wholesome, loving, and abundant thinking being.

One thing you have incorrect is to think that Napoleon Hill was before the New Age. From my studies he and the authors within his era were the spark for the New Age of LoA. Newer authors might have confused and changed around the idea, but he was the initial spark.

It has been part of eastern religious thought for centuries and was rediscovered within the western/capitalist system that Napoleon Hill was working within.

Think and Grow Rich is one of the first books of the New Age movement to associate LoA with material possessions/wealth, namely money.

For many years prior on the other side of the world people used it as a way toward enlightenment. The act of rediscovering the essence of what it means to be a being on this planet had a side effect of easily manifesting whatever the mind projected.

We in the west put waaaay too much attention on the side effect and not enough attention on what is actually going on within us that allowed us to "create" and "attract" more.

One of the spiritual tenants of LoA is that it cannot be used to harm others. Once a negative thought is implanted within the mind as directed toward others it can only rebound onto the person having the thought.

There is no evil here except for the inadvertent damage caused to oneself in thinking negatively, and that's not evil at all really, it's just misunderstanding how to manifest correctly.

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kirbymarketingconcierge

9 years ago

this is like an argument over God.

if you don't agree with LOA, your negative

Is LOA evil? it was a money maker

Am I being negative when I want to know what is true or false?

real or opinion?

objective or out of self-interest???

the problem at it's foundation (for the LOA Cult) :

when you want to counter something that is based on faith, don't try to show evidence that is based not on faith.

boy, is this going to get me in trouble!

I hope LOA dosen't include a cross - I hate nails!!!

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heavysm

9 years ago

Originally Posted by kirbymarketingconcierge

this is like an argument over God.

if you don't agree with LOA, your negative

Am I being negative when I want to know what is true or false?

real or opinion?

objective or out of self-interest???

the problem at it's foundation (for the LOA Cult) :

when you want to counter something that is based on faith, don't try to show evidence that is based not on faith.

boy, is this going to get me in trouble!

You're definitely not negative if you don't believe in LoA.

Whatever possesses the mind tends to manifest into reality.

All of the New Age books just have a very wealth and material oriented view of LoA, manipulating and corrupting the ideas it was originally derived from.

I honestly have no idea where or who these LoA cults are. Are we just talking about the avalanche of new authors over the past few decades writing about it?

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kirbymarketingconcierge

9 years ago

Originally Posted by heavysm

You're definitely not negative if you don't believe in LoA.

Whatever possesses the mind tends to manifest into reality.

All of the New Age books just have a very wealth and material oriented view of LoA, manipulating and corrupting the ideas it was originally derived from.

I honestly have no idea where or who these LoA cults are. Are we just talking about the avalanche of new authors over the past few decades writing about it?

your act of the "reply" and your comment, makes me respect you. I don't thing you used LOA on me

LOA Cult I just thought up.

I get impatient with lack of real evidence on peoples assertions (LOA works)

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heavysm

9 years ago

Originally Posted by kirbymarketingconcierge

your act of the "reply" and your comment, makes me respect you. I don't thing you used LOA on me

LOA Cult I just thought up.

I get impatient with lack of real evidence on peoples assertions (LOA works)

I think we just get too caught up in defining and trying to "see" what LoA is. This is definitely something which if thought too much about leads to massive confusion.

I studied this stuff passively when i was in school and i got really into the deeper meaning behind using meditations and visualizations to cement goals into reality.

Just concentrate on your goals, make them your primary focus, and work toward them. No deep or convoluted thinking needed.

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rbarnhart1

9 years ago

Great comments. Thanks for sharing your ideas.

@heavysm - I agree with what you're saying for the most part, with a couple of minor exceptions. New Age definitely started before Napoleon Hill. I didn't mean to imply that it started with him. I am not even going to assert that he was a member of New Age.

The problem is in assuming that all of the personal development authors and teachers are somehow linked to New Age. I don't believe that at all.

I suppose it might be helpful to define what exactly New Age is, but I'm concerned that it would lead to religious debates. I will only state this: New Age has it's basis in Hermetic Traditions. IF you know what that is and what it means, you can then draw your own conclusions. Personal development and the related concepts of LoA do not come from Hermetic Traditions.

That means, we can only rationally discuss LoA if we agree which version of LoA we are talking about. The only reason we have to make a distinction is because there are two groups of people: those who are in the New Age movement, and those who are in the Personal Development movement. Two totally different groups; two totally different agendas.

Hopefully that makes sense. I'll leave it at that for now and see what comments come up. Thanks again for sharing your ideas.

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rbarnhart1

9 years ago

@Kirby -- You make some good points, and I understand where you're coming from. A lot of money has been made from promoting LoA on both sides. But, honestly, I don't think there is anything wrong with that. If you can help someone get a better result through a technique, that is fine. I do have a problem with people selling rehashed information that is not based on personal experience. But, if you can add value and help someone solve a problem, that is fine in my opinion.

Here's the critical point we should discuss. As we talked about in the other thread, it is almost completely impossible to prove LoA. Why? Because education and brain functions are subjective.

Unless you know what I know and have had the experiences that I have had, you may not have the frame of reference in order for me to prove it. Did you hear the story about the Alaskan Eskimo who visited New York City? He went back home and told the people in his village about the things he saw there and they all decided he was completely nuts (they ostracized him because he told them something that was outside of their belief system).

The only way to prove anything that I might say about LoA is for you to follow the same system and use the same techniques. If you ask any group of people who meditate if meditation works (in terms of relaxation, peace and serenity, etc), they would say yes. How could they prove it to someone who has never learned how to meditate? There is no frame of reference.

Key point: if you were to "try LoA" to see if it works, it most likely would not. It's too easy to give up on something that you have little or no belief in. But, if you were to hire someone to put you through a training system, someone who could teach you all of the techniques, explain how to use them, etc, over the course of 6 months or so, then you would have a chance to experience it and better understand how to get the results you want.

Why hire someone? Because then you are more likely to commit to the process. You have something invested in it.

The only other option is to do thought experiments that might begin to demonstrate certain concepts. Here's one example you could do. Use 360 degree thinking on the concept of "infinite possibilities". 360 degree thinking means to think about a concept from every imaginable angle. What is "infinite possibilities"? What examples can you think of that demonstrates "infinite possibilities"? What is the opposite of "infinite possibilities? Come up with as many questions around the topic as possible and come up with as many answers as you can. If you choose to do this experiment in a Word document, I'd be glad to review it and then give you my version. That way we can begin to understand each other on these things.

It would be nice if I could just say: do Step 1, Step 2 and Step 3 and then you will see LoA. But, it is not that easy. Would you like to experiment with these ideas? I'd be glad to help if I can. Let me know.

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kirbymarketingconcierge

9 years ago

Originally Posted by rbarnhart1

@Kirby -- You make some good points, and I understand where you're coming from. A lot of money has been made from promoting LoA on both sides. But, honestly, I don't think there is anything wrong with that. If you can help someone get a better result through a technique, that is fine. I do have a problem with people selling rehashed information that is not based on personal experience. But, if you can add value and help someone solve a problem, that is fine in my opinion.

I agree, nothing wrong with making money and helping people

I wish they could say it - inventing, promoting LOA made money and you can too rather than being treated like sheep

I have a problem with rehash also, as well as a position of "the ends justify the means".

Here's the critical point we should discuss. As we talked about in the other thread, it is almost completely impossible to prove LoA. Why? Because education and brain functions are subjective.

if it's subjective, can you have proof? No. so I don't want to be told it works but, I can hear "it works for me" and "in my experience"

Unless you know what I know and have had the experiences that I have had, you may not have the frame of reference in order for me to prove it.

google "eprime" or go to E-Prime - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

thanks for being accurate. In your experience is crucial - IMO

Did you hear the story about the Alaskan Eskimo who visited New York City? He went back home and told the people in his village about the things he saw there and they all decided he was completely nuts (they ostracized him because he told them something that was outside of their belief system).

The only way to prove anything that I might say about LoA is for you to follow the same system and use the same techniques.

this is the Scientific Method = replicate same system/techniques by other people to see if getting the same results, and then a real Cause & Effect can be concluded

If you ask any group of people who meditate if meditation works (in terms of relaxation, peace and serenity, etc), they would say yes. How could they prove it to someone who has never learned how to meditate? There is no frame of reference.

Key point: if you were to "try LoA" to see if it works, it most likely would not.

because I don't believe it?

It's too easy to give up on something that you have little or no belief in. But, if you were to hire someone to put you through a training system, someone who could teach you all of the techniques, explain how to use them, etc, over the course of 6 months or so, then you would have a chance to experience it and better understand how to get the results you want.

Why hire someone? Because then you are more likely to commit to the process. You have something invested in it.

The only other option is to do thought experiments that might begin to demonstrate certain concepts. Here's one example you could do. Use 360 degree thinking on the concept of "infinite possibilities". 360 degree thinking means to think about a concept from every imaginable angle. What is "infinite possibilities"? What examples can you think of that demonstrates "infinite possibilities"? What is the opposite of "infinite possibilities? Come up with as many questions around the topic as possible and come up with as many answers as you can. If you choose to do this experiment in a Word document, I'd be glad to review it and then give you my version. That way we can begin to understand each other on these things.

It would be nice if I could just say: do Step 1, Step 2 and Step 3 and then you will see LoA. But, it is not that easy. Would you like to experiment with these ideas? I'd be glad to help if I can. Let me know.

you can't "help" me anymore than I can "help" you.

It's the seperation of belief and proof.

If try to add proof to a belief, your done.

Or are you a jehovah witness? my brother is, and he says he's right

are you wrong???

the only credence I give to you and him, is your conviction of your belief, through time.

if it works for you, I am happy for you. Just don't frame it's as a reality

thanks again for the reply.

I believe your a good person, member, and wish the best for you.

p.s. -

steps 1,2, 3

If I exercise daily, eat right most of the time, then I will be better. 1 2 3, cause & effect, 1 + 2 = 3

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discrat

9 years ago

I try to always have fresh, helpful information.

But the fact is there will be rehashed information scattered all around the Internet. And people do make money with it .

Is this bad ?? Not necessarily. If the material truly offers Value and is conveniently delivered to the Customer there is nothing wrong if it has been shared with others.

Probably, 99% of the Products out there in IM niche are rehashed.

How do you think teachers and professors at Universities teach their students?

From stuff they have learned and are rehashing from their own past mentors and teachers.

- Robert Andrew

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Nothing to see here including a Sig so just move on :)

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kirbymarketingconcierge

9 years ago

Originally Posted by discrat

I try to always have fresh, helpful information.

But the fact is there will be rehashed information scattered all around the Internet. And people do make money with it .

Is this bad ?? Not necessarily. If the material truly offers Value and is conveniently delivered to the Customer there is nothing wrong if it has been shared with others.

Probably, 99% of the Products out there in IM niche are rehashed.

How do you think teachers and professors at Universities teach their students?

From stuff they have learned and are rehashing from their own past mentors and teachers.

- Robert Andrew

great points. I agree. it is mostly a "remix" , like in music.

I am optimistic, because we have to create.

maybe the 80/20 rule applies? 20% is original

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rbarnhart1

9 years ago

@Kirby -- Well, we seemed to have lost ground on that one. But, I understand where you're coming from, for the most part. Will you permit me to try one more time to show you what I mean?

You seem to suggest that I am wrong about something and also that you do not believe in what I believe in.

The problem is, I haven't stated what I believe. I have mentioned 2 LoA concepts ("time is an illusion" and "infinite possibilities"). I have not explained those concepts in much detail and I haven't really explained how those things relate to LoA.

So, I'm curious what it is that you do not believe in. The only thing you know for sure is that I am giving "whatever it is" a label called LoA.

Key point: if you were to "try LoA" to see if it works, it most likely would not.

because I don't believe it?

No. Because you do not have the experience, skill set, and knowledge. It's a learned process.

Consider this example. Let's say that you are not a professional basketball player. You know that Michael Jordan is an excellent basketball player, but you do not know what it is like to play in a championship game at the professional level. Mike could tell you what the experience is like, he could tell you all about his mind set during a championship game, he could even lay out some of his strategies. But, except on a surface level, you would not really understand what he is talking about. Why? Because you do not have the knowledge, experience, or skill set that Mike has. That means you can not experience the things that he has experienced. In order to do so, you would have to go through the same processes that he did to get there (as far as I know, no one has ever walked out onto a basketball court as a superstar without going through similar processes that Mike went through).

Are you with me on that? It's all about a process (not belief and not proof -- proof comes from doing a process). You can do scientific experiments on sulfur and other natural compounds, but thoughts, ideas and experiences are not like that. Not everything is a science experiment. I don't need to set up double blind experiments to prove that positive thoughts are better than negative ones -- because I feel better when I think positive thoughts -- and that's all that really matters.

My assumption is that you belive LoA is "sit around with happy thoughts and you will get everything that you want." Some people who claim to follow LoA concepts believe that. I do not.

My question to you is: Since I have not disclosed what my concepts are or what processes I use, how do you know if I am wrong?

I suggested two possibilities for you to get proof of what I'm talking about. One is to hire someone who is knowledgeable in these concepts who can help you achieve specific results (by taking you through a process). Two, do thought-experiments with someone who understands the concepts. When I say "thought-experiments" what I mean is, using critical thinking skills to discuss a concept. That way, we can begin to understand each other.

So, are you interested to learn more about this? You are not required to "believe" anything. It is simply an invitation to discuss an idea. If you are interested in that, send me a PM and maybe we can talk

By the way, if you do want to explore these ideas (in an effort to expand your thinking), can I ask that you not criticize groups of people for their beliefs? Regardless of what your brother believes, he is allowed to believe those things. That doesn't mean you have to believe what he believes, but it also doesn't mean that he is wrong. All I'm asking is to respect people and their beliefs. I do not agree with the New Age group, but I do not criticize them for what they believe. They are free to choose, as we all are free to choose. If we do not get to discuss anything else, hopefully that one idea will make a difference for you. Have a blessed day.

Thanks
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kirbymarketingconcierge

9 years ago

Originally Posted by rbarnhart1

@Kirby -- Well, we seemed to have lost ground on that one. But, I understand where you're coming from, for the most part. Will you permit me to try one more time to show you what I mean?

You seem to suggest that I am wrong about something and also that you do not believe in what I believe in.

NO. drop the right vs. wrong. our beliefs are different

The problem is, I haven't stated what I believe. I have mentioned 2 LoA concepts ("time is an illusion" and "infinite possibilities"). I have not explained those concepts in much detail and I haven't really explained how those things relate to LoA.

So, I'm curious what it is that you do not believe in. The only thing you know for sure is that I am giving "whatever it is" a label called LoA.

I do not believe LOA works, because I have not seen any evidence, facts, cause & effect tests yet, that it's either real or yet we cannot know ( maybe we don't know yet)

No. Because you do not have the experience, skill set, and
knowledge. It's a learned process.

Are you saying I don't have YOUR experience therefore I am ignorant of the truth???
and, I lack the skill set (should I buy something???)

and finally, I am stupid because I don't know?

you can only give me stories, built on metaphors. Because you have no proof. you have a belief (and probably a vested interest in promoting this)

here we go again - life is like a box of chocolates

Consider this example. Let's say that you are not a professional basketball player. You know that Michael Jordan is an excellent basketball player, but you do not know what it is like to play in a championship game at the professional level. Mike could tell you what the experience is like, he could tell you all about his mind set during a championship game, he could even lay out some of his strategies. But, except on a surface level, you would not really understand what he is talking about. Why? Because you do not have the knowledge, experience, or skill set that Mike has. That means you can not experience the things that he has experienced. In order to do so, you would have to go through the same processes that he did to get there (as far as I know, no one has ever walked out onto a basketball court as a superstar without going through similar processes that Mike went through).

Are you with me on that? It's all about a process (not belief and not proof -- proof comes from doing a process). You can do scientific experiments on sulfur and other natural compounds, but thoughts, ideas and experiences are not like that. Not everything is a science experiment. I don't need to set up double blind experiments to prove that positive thoughts are better than negative ones -- because I feel better when I think positive thoughts -- and that's all that really matters.

My assumption is that you belive LoA is "sit around with happy thoughts and you will get everything that you want." Some people who claim to follow LoA concepts believe that. I do not.

My question to you is: Since I have not disclosed what my concepts are or what processes I use, how do you know if I am wrong?

I suggested two possibilities for you to get proof of what I'm talking about. One is to hire someone who is knowledgeable in these concepts who can help you achieve specific results (by taking you through a process). Two, do thought-experiments with someone who understands the concepts. When I say "thought-experiments" what I mean is, using critical thinking skills to discuss a concept. That way, we can begin to understand each other.

So, are you interested to learn more about this? You are not required to "believe" anything. It is simply an invitation to discuss an idea. If you are interested in that, send me a PM and maybe we can talk

By the way, if you do want to explore these ideas (in an effort to expand your thinking), can I ask that you not criticize groups of people for their beliefs? Regardless of what your brother believes, he is allowed to believe those things. That doesn't mean you have to believe what he believes, but it also doesn't mean that he is wrong. All I'm asking is to respect people and their beliefs. I do not agree with the New Age group, but I do not criticize them for what they believe. They are free to choose, as we all are free to choose. If we do not get to discuss anything else, hopefully that one idea will make a difference for you. Have a blessed day.

I know that I do not know. I am ok with that.
I hold others accountable when they pass off a belief as knowledge

I respect people's beliefs. have I not respected what you believe?

you say positive thoughts make you feel better, I believe that to (shared experiences are not proof either)

I respect and believe that an Islamic extremist believes that he will go to heaven and have 72 virgins, and I will avoid that person.

I don't want to die, beliefs are irrelevant, because I have proof!

if he beheads me, I will be die.

*Notice my example is different, than your example.

this is Like being like michael jordan....it's Like playing basketball

so LOA isn't evil,

But, maybe... a person or group, whatever.. who accepts a belief as real, and then try's to impose it, on others, that is EVIL

_____________________

are you selling something? your advice that will get me Proof is to hire someone? Really???

don't waste time on me - I am not your target market

remember be Positive. and what I say, "do we value the truth or are own opinion?"

It's ok if your selling something. if it helps people, thats good.

we are so averse to being labeled a 'salesperson'.

maybe that is you sticking point. I don't feel insulted really with you sayinf what you did. were all marketers of something, we all sell ourselves

my brother (jehovah witness) said, if your beliefs can't be questioned, you need to ask questions, of yourself

this is my last lengthy post - I am Not a writer, and this takes too much time (and I'm not selling

anything)

best wishes to all members! hope I haven't bored anybody, or upset anyone

as the WF heading for this place states:

Mind Warriors (203 Viewing)
All topics related to self-improvement. Power, energy and creativity translates into being able to make more
money.]

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Mr Bill

9 years ago

Anything that encourages people to start thinking about having a better life couldn't possibly be "evil". There is no LOA cult, it's just an idea that thinking about what you want in life will make you start to take action towards achieving it and religious nutters need to step aside - worldwide. They've done enough damage already.

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George Flm

9 years ago

It's far from evil unless you engage in some sort of shady practices that are questionable to say the least.

I've seen it happen and subscribe to the school of thought, that every action causes a reaction in universal terms. Yet whatever result I've seen was the byproduct of induced hypnosis like manipulating time to benefit from exogenous factors.

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melvinsh

9 years ago

Life itself is Law of Attraction. For every giver there will always be a receiver. So LOA is really matching the frequency to receive and giving and receiving are both 2 sides of 1 coin. Being neutral I believe will help the most because it is your starting point where you can start choosing instead of feeling you have no control over your life.

A lot of channelers and spiritual teachers speak of the neutral state where all your power resides. It's just realizing you can choose good or bad for yourself and that you give life meaning. And it is already known that everything is energy so you just want to become that which you desire.

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albinagomes

9 years ago

No not at all..But Mutual Attraction is a must for compatibility

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C G

9 years ago

Check out

Outwitting the Devil: The Secret to Freedom and...
Napoleon Hill gives us his view on LOA used by the devil

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jonb

9 years ago

I don;t believe in the devil or anything like that, so I can;'t really comment. But...

If you're sitting around visualizing and nothing else, the LOA is a waste of time, and doesn't really exist.

If believing in the LOA causes you to go out and take action, than it's a fine motivator.

If believing that rubbing your lucky frog pendant causes good luck and you go out and take action, that's a fine motivator, too.

Anything that puts you into action without hurting other people is great. Anything that causes you to sit around and wait for success isn't.

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ElGuapo

9 years ago

It's pseudoscience, not evil.

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kirbymarketingconcierge 9 years ago

Originally Posted by ElGuapo

It's pseudoscience, not evil.

pseu·do·sci·ence
ˌso͞odōˈsīəns/Submit
noun
a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

thanks for relpy's.

sometimes I fell trapped between the money motivated and

La La Land on this sub-forum.
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- rbarnhart1 9 years ago
  
  Hi Kirby -- Good post. I'll try to keep this short also.
  
  I am not selling anything. I was offering to have a discussion with you (perhaps on Google Hangouts -- so that we don't have to do all this typing . That way, we could come to an understanding on various ideas and concepts (i.e. share knowledge).
  
  I believe you are a good person who could benefit from expanding your thinking. If I wanted to sell something, I'd have a link in my sig line.
  
  If you have no interest in learning about this, then I withdraw my offer. But, I assumed that we've been having these discussions because you wanted to understand why I believe what I do.
  
  Are you saying I don't have YOUR experience therefore I am ignorant of the truth???
  and, I lack the skill set (should I buy something???)
  
  No, not at all. You and I are not ignorant of the truth as it applies to my example about Michael Jordan. We simply don't have his skills and knowledge and experience, and therefore cannot experience the things he's experienced (such as winning a championship). It's the same as that. Has nothing to do with being ignorant of truth. It has to do with lacking the prerequisites for having a particular experience.
  
  and finally, I am stupid because I don't know?
  
  Absolutely not. I don't believe I suggested that at all. Lacking experience in something has no bearing on your intelligence. It's a process that requires learning and practice.
  
  Life works like this: do something --> get a result. do something --> get a result. do something different --> get a different result. I lived my life in a certain way for x numbers of years. I got a certain result (which I was not happy with). I changed what I was doing to something else. Interestingly enough, I got a different result (which I am happy with). There is a correlation between these two things. If I do what I did before, I get the results I used to get. It's really that simple. I'm suggesting to you that you could learn how to do something different as well (if you are willing to).
  
  you can only give me stories
  
  That's because you live Somewhere, USA and I live Somewhere Else, USA. The only means of communication I have is this inadequate keyboard I'm pecking on. If you lived next door to me and we had about 5 months free with nothing to do, I could demonstrate these ideas and you could then decide for yourself if they make sense or not. But, since we don't have that, stories are all I've got for you. Or you can buy something and learn it on your own -- but the knowledge is not going to sneak up on you.
  
  So, I will leave the offer open. If you are interested in expanding your thinking and exploring new ideas (i.e. open-minded), I'd be glad to talk to you. Nothing for sale. No pitches. And, just so everything is on the table, I am in the process of starting a business, but I do not have any products or services available at this time. I do have some affiliate products in the wings that I will be using once my business is up and running -- but I do not promote my business nor do I promote any affiliate programs here on WF. I am here to learn and network, nothing more.
  
  Whatever you decide, I wish you the best in your marketing and business endeavors. Have a blessed day.
  
  Thanks
  
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Alexa Smith

Banned 9 years ago

Originally Posted by ElGuapo

It's pseudoscience, not evil.

This.

I don't think there's anything "evil" about it, at all.

It's just some semi-mystical, pseudoscientific flannel which was resurrected (by some very successful marketers with a large and notoriously gullible market) about a decade or so ago, purely for marketing and financial purposes.

.

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rbarnhart1

9 years ago

Hi Alexa. I believe you are referring to the movie and book called The Secret. Resurrected is an interesting way to put it. It certainly wasn't on the radar in mainstream thinking before that.

The concept of LoA wasn't really dead though. Brian Tracy, Zig Ziglar and Tony Robbins (among others) have been promoting similar ideas and concepts for years (Brian Tracy probably came the closest to promoting it as "law of attraction").

When you say "gullible market" are you referring specifically to people who bought The Secret? My problem with that program is that it mixed good LoA concepts with the New Age ideas and concepts that I cannot support.

Having said that, there are valid concepts to be learned from The Secret, if you're willing to overlook the New Age bits and pieces.

For example, the program promotes an idea called "secret shifters", which is simply this: create a list of things that makes you happy (people you love, pets, experiences you've had that you enjoyed, etc). Write the list down and keep it with you. Whenever you feel bad, pick something from the list and start thinking about it. As you do, your mood will shift to feeling good.

For someone who constantly feels bad, this one simple technique would have been worth the money spent on the program -- because it solved a real-world problem for them.

So, I don't think people who bought this program were gullible at all. Now, the people who bought into the New Age stuff or who misunderstood how the principles work, perhaps that subset of people could be called gullible, depending on your point-of-view.

The important thing is to be careful how you label things. You can learn valuable ideas in strange places.

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Lucian Lada 9 years ago

Originally Posted by rbarnhart1

For someone who constantly feels bad...

... there's only one solution: a visit to a therapist. Not some mambo jumbo books claiming to "heal" one's mind and soul or whatever they say.

Just like one visits the doctor when one senses there's something wrong with their body, so does a person who senses there's something constantly wrong with their mind.

Tony R & Co. are unqualified for this job, to put it mildly.
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rbarnhart1

9 years ago

LOL. People praying for something, instead of working for it accuse people who do roughly the same thing, but without having to go to a church and remember long prayers? Somebody's jelly.

Hi Lucian. Interesting point. However, I think you have very much misrepresented both sides of that equation. Praying has nothing to do with getting something without working for it. LoA also has nothing to do with getting something without working for it.

LoA IS NOT a "get stuff" mechanism (unless you are on the New Age path and believe in that sort of thing).

If you only look at one small aspect of something and then choose to believe that the one small aspect is the whole thing, you will have a very distorted view. It's sort of like looking at a blueprint for building a home and assuming it's all about wood, and metal, and plastic instead of realizing that all of that can be turned into a house that will serve generations of people.

What is LoA? It's a set of principles that allows people to live life in a certain way (a philosophy, for lack of a better word). Nothing more than that.

Hopefully that makes sense. You can only understand something if you take the time to explore it with an open mind. If you just want to make assumptions and create opinions based on sound bites, you might miss some incredible opportunities to learn and grow as a person.

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rbarnhart1 9 years ago
or whatever they say.

That is why you may not believe in these things. You have not fully looked at what is being discussed.

I have made two assertions:
1. There is one group of people who promote LoA as a New Age concept
2. There is another group of people who promote it as a personal development concept
I disagree with the version promoted by the New Age group. If you do some research into successful people, you'll find they have some common beliefs and principles that they use. You can just call those concepts personal development if you want. But, as it relates to a system of thinking, I choose to call it Law of Attraction (as taught by Brian Tracy, Napoleon Hill, and others). There are certain principles of thought that produce better results than others.

The basic premise is that thoughts are the precursor to action. Before you take an action, it is preceded by a thought. If that is true, then what you think is probably an important factor to get right. Therefore, I study everything I can on right thinking.

I'm curious who thinks this is a bad idea. It seems like rational thinking to me.
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Alexa Smith

Banned 9 years ago

Originally Posted by rbarnhart1

When you say "gullible market" are you referring specifically to people who bought The Secret?

No; I wasn't referring specifically to those (I wasn't old enough, at the time, to be aware of them). I have seen it, though.

Originally Posted by rbarnhart1

there are valid concepts to be learned from The Secret, if you're willing to overlook the New Age bits and pieces.

I'm not, though. It offends me. It's all bullshit for the gullible, in my opinion.

.

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kirbymarketingconcierge

9 years ago

@Alexa Smith

love your candor.

I was just thinking (it comes and goes)

Being "charismatic" or "comfortable in your own skin" is all LOA is

when your happy with yourself, confident in your communication, move with purpose....

others find it "attractive"

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Alexa Smith

Banned 9 years ago

Originally Posted by kirbymarketingconcierge

love your candor.

It's only tongue-in-cheek, on this subject.

Originally Posted by kirbymarketingconcierge

others find it "attractive"

Yes - I see that it's attractive to many, and I understand why, I think. If I wanted to offer a more serious criticism of "The Secret", I might start from the perspective that it's rather long-winded on telling people "how to wish for things" but distinctly lacking in advice on taking the necessary action to increase the chances of achieving any of those outcomes, rather than just waiting for them all, somehow, to "show up". But I'm too busy "participating in the, like, ongoing meaningfulness of the experience".

.

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Jonathan 2.0

Banned 9 years ago

Originally Posted by Alexa Smith

I might start from the perspective that it's rather long-winded on telling people "how to wish for things" but distinctly lacking in advice on taking the necessary action to increase the chances of achieving any of those outcomes, rather than just waiting for them all, somehow, to "show up".

Hi Alexa.

It sounds like to me that your only experience with "The Law Of Attraction" is that of watching the movie "The Secret." Have you read any of the original literature from the late 19th and early 20th Century regarding LOA?

Because none of them suggest that all you have to do is "wish" for something and it will magically show up in your life.

(Having your actions in alignment with your thoughts is an important component of the attraction process ...)

In fact there's a great wealth of information in those books and it would be a shame for people to miss out just because they have a skewed perspective because of how LOA was illustrated in the movie.

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Mr Bill

9 years ago

There's nothing magical or mystical going on in anything posted in this forum despite the way some people express their views (including me). It's a simple reality that if you think in a positive manner and take action that's aimed at achieving your desired goals it helps get you there faster than being negative, sitting on your arse, trolling or arguing against things that no one really believes anyway.

Positive thinking (big or small) plus positive action (big or small) increase your chances of positive results - that's all.

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SteveSki

9 years ago

Evil? Do you know that the Law of Attraction is taught in the bible?

Read Mark 11:24 and see for yourself.

Cheers,

SteveSki

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kirbymarketingconcierge 9 years ago

Originally Posted by SteveSki

Evil? Do you know that the Law of Attraction is taught in the bible?

Read Mark 11:24 and see for yourself.

Cheers,

SteveSki

good to see your around (remember your avatar name)

do you know, I believe the bible is a Book to me?
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rbarnhart1 9 years ago

Originally Posted by SteveSki

Evil? Do you know that the Law of Attraction is taught in the bible?

Read Mark 11:24 and see for yourself.

Verse 23 is even more suggestive of LoA. Although, I am hesitant to make the claim that the Bible teaches LoA. There are many LoA concepts that have interesting counterparts in the Bible. In fact, some concepts such as "sowing and reaping" are directly related.

I think it is more accurate to say that the Bible teaches principles that are beneficial to the people who learn, understand and practice them. Whereas, LoA is a collection of principles that have been developed over time by many people.

As long as you stay on the personal development side of LoA (rather than the New Age version), then you can also accurately say that many LoA concepts are Bible-based or supported by the Bible.
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Lucian Lada

9 years ago

Originally Posted by rbarnhart1

In another thread here on the Mind Warrior's board, someone posted a warning that Law of Attraction was from the devil and that those who believe in it are worshiping Satan.

LOL. People praying for something, instead of working for it accuse people who do roughly the same thing, but without having to go to a church and remember long prayers? Somebody's jelly.

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Lucian Lada

9 years ago

Oh, but I think praying has everything to do with getting something without working for it. A lot of people imagine that if they pray in just the right position, health, money and happiness will come to them without lifting a finger.

Believing in getting something just because one recites religious poems is absurd, but hey, it might be just me.

The reason I don't like LoA, regardless of who promotes it, is because every book on it is riddled with "make me feel great about myself"-type of paragraphs. These people cannot go one page without saying, "You are so wonderful, you are this incredible being that can do that and that and that and..." etc. Their books are designed to pump the reader's emotional state, so they don't feel bad about buying a book with basic/common-sense advice.

And why the heck to they keep churning out book after book? Isn't one book supposed to solve the problem?

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rbarnhart1 9 years ago

You make some very valid points, Lucian. But, from my perspective, you're only seeing the surface of the issue.

Just to make sure that we are the same page, let me point out a couple of things.

you said:

A lot of people imagine that if they pray in just the right position, health, money and happiness will come to them without lifting a finger.

That's a true statement. A lot of people do believe that. But a lot of people believing doesn't make it so, right?

I don't believe that way. Most of the people who have similar beliefs to mine also do not believe that way (both from the religion side and the LoA side).

Just because a lot of people believe that they can pray and get what they want, doesn't mean that prayer is all about that. It really isn't. Prayer is a way for those who believe in a creator (God) to connect with Him in a very personal way. It is a relationship with a Higher Power (or however you choose to think about that). Someone who is praying to God just to get stuff might want to reevaluate their religious values.

The reason I don't like LoA, regardless of who promotes it, is because every book on it is riddled with "make me feel great about myself"

There are books like that, but from my experience not all of them are. Have you read any of Brian Tracy's books? He invests a few paragraphs in doing this. But, there is a reason. Many people who buy his books have low self-esteem and this has to be fixed.

so they don't feel bad about buying a book with basic/common-sense advice

My favorite expression: "common sense". It was common 100 years ago. Today, not so much. Aside from that, who gets to decide what is "common sense"? If I read a book and learn something that I didn't know, does that mean I don't have common sense? Does that mean I'm less of a person because I didn't know?

You make it sound like the average person should automatically know all the stuff in these books. The information in these books is not that common (meaning, most people's brains do not contain the information found in "these books" and for a large percentage of people whose brains do contain it, very few use it productively). That's why there are multiple books -- because people haven't acted on the information yet.

Does that make sense? I get where you're coming from. But, you really do have to get below the surface and research these ideas. I could give you a list of books that would probably change your perspective on these topics. I'm willing to bet 3 things:

1. You probably haven't heard of several of the books
2. You probably haven't read most of them
3. If you read them, you will learn at least one or more things that will have a significant impact on your life, if you choose to act on what you read.

Hopefully that helps.
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George Flm

9 years ago

LOA poses as insoluble for a great many but is really about building yourself esoterically and ultimately the world around you changes based on what you feed your own subconscious.

It typifies a phenomenal success ratio for those who use it even inadvertently. So even those who never read about the subject can still rejoice outstanding results provided that they have a firm belief mechanism in place that sets their wheel in motion.

There are "artificial" means to make it work for you by the provision that you go into the lengths of hypnosis to alter your consciousness, feel phenomenal and pour your dynamic in endeavors that pay off.

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rbarnhart1

9 years ago

Alexa said:

I'm not, though. It offends me. It's all bullshit for the gullible, in my opinion.

That's a shame. You're probably missing some interesting ideas that might prove useful. Having an open mind leads to much more learning and understanding than other modes of thinking.

distinctly lacking in advice on taking the necessary action to increase the chances of achieving any of those outcomes

Perhaps with the movie, I could partially agree with you. The book, on the other hand, was much more informative and useful.

I rarely recommend The Secret as a source for practical knowledge in the area of LoA, but to dismiss it entirely is a huge mistake. There actually are useful concepts within it.

I still am not 100% sure if you are condemning everyone involved with LoA or just the New Age group. The New Age stuff is not something that I support or agree with. But, I also do not criticize them or consider them gullible (perhaps some segment of their followers could be described that way -- but to say they all are is an unfair generalization).

This is why it's critical to understand that there are two groups of people who follow LoA. It would be laughable to criticize people like Brian Tracy and others as gullible.

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Alexa Smith

Banned 9 years ago

Originally Posted by rbarnhart1

This is why it's critical to understand that there are two groups of people who follow LoA. It would be laughable to criticize people like Brian Tracy and others as gullible.

Yes, I take this point completely.

I'm not at all short of respect for Brian Tracy!

It's only the "new agey" crap I'm slandering.

.

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rbarnhart1 9 years ago

Originally Posted by Alexa Smith

Yes, I take this point completely.

I'm not at all short of respect for Brian Tracy!

It's only the "new agey" crap I'm slandering.

.

Gotcha. Okay, thanks for clarifying that. :-)

There definitely is a segment of people on both sides of LoA who could be classified as gullible. But, I try not to judge people, particularly based on beliefs, etc. The majority of people on both sides of LoA have a good heart and have good intentions.
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Brent Jones

9 years ago

It appears that there are a ton of remarks made in this thread already, so my thoughts may or may not be read.

As another user pointed out, the LoA is neither good nor evil. It just is what it is, whether you understand it or not.

But the LoA, as explained in silly nonsense books and films like "The Secret" is absolute garbage. It promotes a victim mindset - that your thoughts are more powerful than your actions. The ludicrous idea that the world will do things to you based on your thought patterns.

I understand that thoughts become actions. I also understand that a positive thought is far more powerful and motivating than a negative thought. That's fine. But thinking you can will your destiny into existence by simply thinking about it is absurd. That's like saying you believe in telekinesis or mind control.

To recap, positive thinking, setting goals, high expectations for your results, etc. - those are all good things.

"The Secret" and the group of cultists who think they can actually physically change reality, up to and including physical healing, with the power of their minds are dangerous and absurd.

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rbarnhart1

9 years ago

@Brent Jones

Hey Brent. Thanks for sharing that. I've said previously that I don't recommend The Secret, because it uses some bad analogies and only covers very surface level stuff (not to mention the New Age stuff that I can't go along with).

However, there were several very well-respected people on the show and the majority of them were very grounded in reality (action is required, etc).

In addition to that, there were an additional 30+ people who produced content for The Secret that didn't make it through the final cut (I don't know if any of that was ever published or released or if it's sitting in a vault somewhere).

For example, one person who did not make it on the show was Dave Buck. Dave is the CEO of Coachville, which is one of the most respected coaching certification schools around (it was founded by Thomas Leonard, who basically pioneered the entire industry of coaching as we know it today).

So, I think it is a mistake to discount the show entirely -- there is definitely some useful nuggets of information. If nothing else, if you get to know some of the teachers and follow the work they do, that alone is worth the watch (I suppose you could just read the credits and do a Google search, but then you wouldn't really know which ones were credible and which ones were not)

Thanks again for sharing your opinion.

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Jonathan 2.0 Banned 9 years ago

Originally Posted by rbarnhart1

So, I think it is a mistake to discount the show entirely - there is definitely some useful nuggets of information.

Good point. I agree rbarnhart1. : ) There definitely is some good advice and guidance in the movie.
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- kirbymarketingconcierge 9 years ago
  
  I can seperate marketing from other things.
  
  "the secret" was marketing, the movie was a marketing channel. (and also helpful to people)
  
  we as marketer's can find any niche, and any audience in out inter-connected, internet world. like "cat juggling" for example.
  
  we project what we believe, want, or can sell from there.
  
  the feedback we get, money, people telling us how good it is, it works, etc.., then confirm
  
  that version of reality. for example a sports figure who throughout his career is told by
  
  his handlers how great he is, then believes, he is ... objectively.
  
  so goes marketing, so goes human nature in general. IMO
  
  Thanks
  
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Brent Jones

9 years ago

Originally Posted by rbarnhart1

@Brent Jones

Hey Brent. Thanks for sharing that. I've said previously that I don't recommend The Secret, because it uses some bad analogies and only covers very surface level stuff (not to mention the New Age stuff that I can't go along with).

However, there were several very well-respected people on the show and the majority of them were very grounded in reality (action is required, etc).

In addition to that, there were an additional 30+ people who produced content for The Secret that didn't make it through the final cut (I don't know if any of that was ever published or released or if it's sitting in a vault somewhere).

For example, one person who did not make it on the show was Dave Buck. Dave is the CEO of Coachville, which is one of the most respected coaching certification schools around (it was founded by Thomas Leonard, who basically pioneered the entire industry of coaching as we know it today).

So, I think it is a mistake to discount the show entirely -- there is definitely some useful nuggets of information. If nothing else, if you get to know some of the teachers and follow the work they do, that alone is worth the watch (I suppose you could just read the credits and do a Google search, but then you wouldn't really know which ones were credible and which ones were not)

Thanks again for sharing your opinion.

Thanks for all this. I appreciate your insights into the background of the Secret. I'll have to do more research on it.

To clarify, I'm sure there were some people behind the Secret who had good intentions and noble backgrounds. But the final product came out anything but useful. I maintain that the underlying messages promoted throughout both the film and book are dangerous and deceiving. It is designed to appeal to the same kind of desperate person who turns to card readers, faith healers and fortune tellers.

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rbarnhart1 9 years ago

Originally Posted by Brent Jones

It is designed to appeal to the same kind of desperate person who turns to card readers, faith healers and fortune tellers.

I don't know if it was necessarily designed that way, but it definitely pulls that crowd in and wraps them up in a big way. The outcome is the same. And that's a big part of why I tend to stay away from it now.

I think I mentioned this before (not sure if it was in this thread or another), but the book is way more practical and leaves out all of the cheesy story-line graphics from the movie. Less distraction and as a result, it eliminates a big part of the perception that the average person gets from the movie.

If you decide to look into it, I would definitely go with the book. Just remember to go in with the mindset of extracting useful information. Freely discard whatever does not fit your beliefs. In a way, you have to know what your looking at in some cases. For example, right in the beginning you hear the quote "as above, so below". That is a cornerstone concept from Hermetic traditions. As innocent as it sounds, it can lead down that New Age path. Bottom line, if you stick to what's practical -- things that you can actually use and do something with -- then you'll come out with some good info.

Hope this helps.
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Shri Gp

9 years ago

LOA is not evil,if you WOOP

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Is Law of Attraction Evil?

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