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The LoA will teach you the lessons needed ... people don't learn the lessons and give up on LoA

by bhaitain
11 replies
I've known about the Law of Attraction for several years and just today I learned something about the LoA that I haven't before.

The speaker in the video said that the LoA sometimes will bring bad things into your life in order for you to learn the lessons needed so you can achieve the goal you have been visualizing. Without learning these lessons it would be impossible to reach your goal.

Makes me wonder what if all those people who tried the LoA and had the opposite effect of what they visualized dismissed it as a scam instead of accepting it and learning whatever they can from it.
#give #learn #lessons #loa #needed #people #teach
  • Profile picture of the author RogozRazvan
    How is this different from religion?

    If good things happen to you, it is because of LOA. If bad things happen to you, it is because LOA wanted you to learn some lessons.

    Complete circular argument and a huge catch 22 in this.

    I don't hate LOA, per se. I probably have too beliefs that are incongruousness with reality. I respect the right of other people to believe whatever they want. What bothers us, people that do not believe in LOA is the logical incongruity in all of this.

    What I believe instead is cause and effect.

    You do this, you get that. The effect is fixed so if you get the wrong effect, then the cause is wrong. Simplifies my life. Allows me to understand why I sometimes get results and other times, I don't. And it is better than waiting for some universal force to send me riches and happiness.

    For me the fact that I desire something is in no way linked to actually getting that outcome. What works for me is "desire -> action -> feedback -> improved action". But this is the basis of psycho-cybernetics, not LOA.

    PS: There is a difference between causality and correlation. A huge one.
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    • Profile picture of the author heavysm
      I don't think it's going too far to say that when speaking of cause and effect, the first cause in this situation is the thought which creates the act.

      The way LoA is preached by many authors and mystics makes it seem like a religion, i get that. But breaking it down to the basic idea that our thoughts affect reality...I just don't see how we can say it doesn't considering that thinking is the basis of our reality. Without thoughts we wouldn't have action.

      Speaking for the situations where people don't get what they way, let's say perhaps in a competitive environment like job searching where lots of people vie for the same job. The winner of the job would be the one whose cause (or initial thought) had the greatest strength. Perhaps that manifested as appearing better to the interviewers, feeling particularly happy on that day etc.

      Maybe it's just me, but the basic idea that our thoughts construct our reality just makes sense to me. Your actions come about as a result of your thoughts, therefore, control over your thoughts (or lack thereof: meditation) creates whatever reality you wish.
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    • Profile picture of the author bhaitain
      I'm also not sold on the whole LoA thing. I simply posted this because there seems to be a lot of LoA believers on here.

      "For me the fact that I desire something is in no way linked to actually getting that outcome. What works for me is "desire -> action -> feedback -> improved action". But this is the basis of psycho-cybernetics, not LOA."

      Ok the thing with LoA is they teach that when you align with your goal you will get a hunch or an intuition on what the next action you would take. I think they call it inspired action.

      With Psychocybernetics you could be trying a different action a million times and still not get to your goal. Also some actions can be costly which will prevent you from taking the next action (e.g losing capital).

      Also with law of cause and effect, we don't control all of the effects. (e.g. accidents, other people, etc.)

      I hope you realize I'm just playing the devil's advocate here.
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      • Profile picture of the author heavysm
        Originally Posted by bhaitain View Post

        I'm also not sold on the whole LoA thing. I simply posted this because there seems to be a lot of LoA believers on here.

        "For me the fact that I desire something is in no way linked to actually getting that outcome. What works for me is "desire -> action -> feedback -> improved action". But this is the basis of psycho-cybernetics, not LOA."

        Ok the thing with LoA is they teach that when you align with your goal you will get a hunch or an intuition on what the next action you would take. I think they call it inspired action.

        With Psychocybernetics you could be trying a different action a million times and still not get to your goal. Also some actions can be costly which will prevent you from taking the next action (e.g losing capital).

        Also with law of cause and effect, we don't control all of the effects. (e.g. accidents, other people, etc.)

        I hope you realize I'm just playing the devil's advocate here.
        @ bhaitain...I highly recommend you read the silva method. There are some audio courses of method but the original blue book should be a nice read.

        It explains how different brain states can bring you those flashes of insight that some people interpret as the intuition. It actually breaks it down pretty scientifically using the alpha brainwave state to trigger ideas as a derivative of visualizing a particular outcome (trying to find keys, predicting particular events etc).

        Regarding aligning with a goal and suddenly getting hunches about action to take...isn't that just going in detail about thinking and planning? I want to start a business, my brain works to find some profitable ideas, then some ideas come. Next thing you know you make some connections with other entrepreneurs, you pick up some bigger ideas and now you suddenly have partners who can help you achieve your goal.

        All of this just happens as a projection onto our reality: you think about something and the brainstorming/planning of that idea is created into your reality. I think it's pretty simple really. But as I'll state again, the way new age authors and gurus talk about it...it can sound like you're working with spirits and magic or whatever. The basic idea overall that your thoughts create your reality, as they are the basis of your actions, i think still holds up here.
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  • Profile picture of the author RogozRazvan
    @Heavysm - The thought does not influence external circumstances. All the desire in the world can not move even a grain of sand on a beach. What the thought determines is a behavior - your behavior. That behavior creates results. Results create circumstances.

    Do not confuse the map with the territory. Wanting something is equivalent with having something only by taking action towards having it.

    If A = thought, B = behavior, then A leads to B, yes. But this is a causal relationship, not some mystical law of attraction. And between A and B there is a thing called free will since we are not operating only on instinct. If I feel angry and I feel like smashing the phone in the wall, between my thought (taking the phone and smashing it) and the action (throwing it) there is a space. A space in which I can take a decision.

    And you are making a logical error in your statement.

    Our thoughts create our PERCEPTION OF REALITY. Thoughts do not create reality and no, I don’t want to go into platonism and existentialism. We create the map, the interpretation of reality. Reality is the same for everyone. It is absolute and it is found in the law of identity, A = A.

    If you’ve been taught that an elephant is a tiger, because everyone told you it is a tiger, you’ll believe when you see an elephant that it is a tiger. Yet, an elephant it is a elephant. Your perception of him being a tiger is a belief. The principle is that an elephant is an elephant.

    A leads to B. A is cause, B is effect.

    B is stuck. Is fixed. If you don’t get B, A is wrong. B is reality. The objective reality.

    Therefore, since you can not change B through A, you can only change A to suit B.

    @Bhaitain - There aren’t millions of actions in most circumstances. Actually, most are binaries. Do it or don’t do it. Take the deal or don’t take the deal. Life is NOT that complicated.

    Cause and effect is absolute in theory. In theory, I repeat. An accident is caused by a factor. The effect is the accident. That factor may be related to you or not. But it is always causality. Even the fact that I write this post is causal.

    Anyway, arguing on LOA is as useless as arguing on religion. LOA is based on faith mostly, not logic. I’m trying to use logic to explain something that is not easy to define through logic. If LOA works for you, whoever may read this, then good for you. Use it.

    But if you see that it doesn’t work, then stop using it. I personally believe that LOA is the worst thing that happened to humankind, education wise, in the last 100 years. We’ve got an entire planet waiting for things to happen to them because some slick guru promoted a bit too much ideas like “you don’t have to work, you just need to sit, wait, want and what you desire will appear to you”.

    I DO believe that as people we attract certain things. But we attract them AS A CONSEQUENCE OF THE CIRCUMSTANCES WE CREATE THROUGH OUR ACTIONS. Speeding drunk will attract you a driving ticket and it doesn’t take LOA to understand that. Going to the gym and looking attractive will attract the opposite sex and believe me, it is not your desire to attract the opposite sex but the asset itself (your body) that creates this relationship.

    So my sincere opinion is MORE WORK, LESS RATIONALIZING.

    And I know that these arguments can easily be attacked.

    “But if you say that A leads to B, then why people who work hard are not rich?”
    “Why do small puppies die every day?”
    “Why those who deserve the best do not get it?”

    And this is because there is a difference between objective and subjective causality. Objective is what works. Subjective is what we’ve been taught that it works. An entire nation believes that going to college will net them a $70.000/year job right after graduation. This is highly subjective. Objective is that the market is driven by different market forces and that it takes more than a diploma to get in the door.

    Does this means that no one will get that job? Some will do. But statistically, I consider my approach more healthy and efficient than LOA. I don't believe that anything social, between humans is absolute.

    Cute girls will usually end up with good looking guys. Some won't.
    Smart and hard working people will end up rich. Some will end up poor.
    People usually divorce after 15 - 20 years. Some will never divorce.

    Or maybe my definition of LOA is wrong. For me is still the same BS promoted by people like Joe Vitale.
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    • Profile picture of the author heavysm
      To be fair, you mentioned Joe Vitale and I don't agree with his view of LoA.

      I also don't like that The Secret made LoA more mainstream stretching it's meaning and contorting it beyond it's spiritual origins.

      LoA is actually derivative of spiritual doctrine, as you become a more loving and wholesome being you tend to attract things easier. But that isn't science, and there's nothing empirically examinable within that description, because it was never intended to be logically or intellectually picked apart.

      So the way in which LoA came about was more by accident and side effect than anything else new age self help gurus claim. We can argue the idea into tedium, but really get no where since it isn't an idea that can be realistically examined through controlled experiments.

      There have been several attempts to explain the phenomenon of thoughts and brainwave states as they influence our reality, but yielding hard evidence that a single neuron of thought created a particular portion of physical reality simply isn't going to happen.
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  • Profile picture of the author RealCasher
    LoA is not even real.. your energy is. If you want to do something beneficial, Meditate.
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    • Profile picture of the author Michael Shook
      The LOA is a description of how the world works. It allows for the idea that your thoughts create your own version of reality. Reality is not the same for everybody. And there is no absolute way for you to share your version with anyone else. OK, I don't know of a way to do that.

      Take the glass half full vs half empty. Which it is depends on what you think. On top of which, topologically speaking there is no inside the glass because the outside is the same as the inside.

      The LOA is just a way of making sense of the world. It has no more and no less validity than any other idea that explains the world.
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  • Profile picture of the author Omar PowerMoves Adams
    When you have strong negative emotions you activate particle flow, and it helps you Focus On What You DO Want In Order To REDIRECT That Particle Flow Into More Productive Feelings.


    YOURS In Prosperity,

    Omar "Power Moves" Adams
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    • Profile picture of the author rbarnhart1
      Great discussion going here. I really like the thought that went into these posts (RogozRazvan, love the logic -- good stuff).

      Here's something that most people don't realize. Cause and Effect is Law of Attraction (this is coming from a completely non-new-age perspective). I'm not into New Age or anything like that. We had a discussion awhile back focused on this concept. Basically, in my opinion, New Age groups have hi-jacked LoA as a concept and changed the context of it dramatically.

      Law of Attraction is all about cause and effect. What RogozRazvan said about thought not affecting one grain of sand in our reality is absolutely correct. But,that's not what LoA is about. It's about how we interact with and process the world around us.

      We are specifically talking about two different aspects of life -- the inner world (our thoughts, our emotions, our ego, our self-limiting beliefs, etc) and the outer world (in particular, our perception of the outer world).

      Going back to another example that RogozRazvan gave: an elephant isn't a tiger. Again, absolutely correct, but is not what LoA is about. Let's look at a different example: two people are riding a roller coaster -- one is terrified, the other is exhilarated. Exact same input, situation, and circumstances but two completely different reactions and outcomes. Now we are talking about things that LoA can impact.

      Why was one person terrified on the roller coaster? Because of a belief that is lodged in that person's subconscious mind. Many people agree that roller coasters are fun and they get much enjoyment from it. The person with the limiting belief probably won't ever be on a roller coaster again and will miss out on the opportunity to experience the enjoyment this activity can provide.

      Thoughts affect beliefs, decisions and actions. That's LoA in a nutshell. Here's the bigger picture. There are literally billions of things out there in our world. Our brain can't process all of that stuff all at one time -- so it filters out the stuff it considers unimportant (here's an interesting thought experiment -- where did these filters of important/unimportant come from?)

      There are so many things that get filtered out of our conscious awareness. There are also many opportunities all around us that will lead to certain better results (causes and effects). But most people don't see these opportunities because it gets filtered out.

      LoA is primarily about becoming aware of the infinite possibilities that are all around us and then doing something about the opportunities that are there. That is an extremely simplistic understanding of a much larger set of ideas and concepts -- but hopefully this sheds some light on what LoA is actually about.
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  • Profile picture of the author Odahh
    rogoz,

    in effect loa ..is at core the law of cause and effect ..

    from my experience and my disgust with the general explanation of loa ..

    the loa does not randomly bring bad or good thing into your life ..and thinking that will cause a lot of circular tale chasing and victim based consciousness ..

    ...you have a problem or something bad going on .. the true base of the law attraction tell you that you must look at what you are doing to cause the problem ..and then you have the power to change what you are doing that causes the problem ..

    the problem with mystics is to be mystics they have to make simple thing sound mystical

    desiring something really just leads to more desire ,,if you try to get something from a position of not having ..you will just become more aware of what you do not have .

    the base ics of abrahamic religions is that we where created in the image of a god that is a creator..so we ourselves are creators ..the question is why we create the lives we create ..

    so my view is that loa is the tool of a creator ..sometime we create bad things in our live to make ourselves aware of much better things that we needed the bad experience ..to truely understand the value of the good things ..

    anywat that is my personal philosophy based on how i have learned to us the law of attraction ..

    and reality is not the same for everyone ..because we have such different make up .. down to a genetic level ..i have had an hour hour and a half sleep this night which is why i am on this thread ..and in a few hour will be working a physically demanding job ..and will get through the day just fine on one cofee .. and i will do fine ..

    the general population does not want to ask the question what did i do to cause this and why would i cause this ..

    blaming the victim.. they call it .

    i have learned to call it making the creator accept their creation ..

    thought only becom things if they result in the creator taking the proper insired action ..to make them happen..

    a person can dream of winning the lottery .. even though it is a near 0 chance of happening anyway .it is absolute zero ..but most people only have those dreams between the point they buy the ticket and when the drawing comes out soon after .

    many loa or whatever just get stuck in the dream phase ..
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