Need Some Advice About My Business Partner

13 replies
Fellow Warriors,

I'm in a bit of a sticky situation and I could really use some outside input. I will try to keep this to the point and spare unnecessary details, but it is a long story. Here goes...

February of this year I knew absolutely nothing about IM. Never thought about it and had no education on it whatsoever. My friend of several years had been gaining interest in it over the past year, slowly. The first course he bought, which was last year, was Frank Kern's Mass Control. He pretty much sat on the material for a while and didn't do anything with it, being that he had no product nor knew what to sell online. He started to introduce me to concepts and gained my interest and we decided we would start to learn what this was all about. We spent the next several weeks spending 20-30 hours on top of our normal jobs going through Mass Control. We watched all the material, the seminars, etc. Frank Kern made it entertaining too, so it wasn't like work at all.

By mid april (we started just about march) we were starting to understand "something". What it was we really had no idea yet, and now I realize that I didn't know **** because I had nothing practical I could use this information with. We decided to start with affiliate marketing and wanted to use video as the medium. We had learned about traffic geyser, so in a few nights I learned how to create videos with my mac and we created a nice quality sales video based around a clickbank product. I used TG to send it out to all the video sites (note that I made the video and did all the submissions, while he came up with titles, descriptions, and keywords). Within 3 days we had 2 sales already and it was like, woah! The video still brings in an average of 1 sale a week. This was done with little knowledge of how to actually presell or provide content. Thinking about it now, I realized at that point we should've just kept making more videos, and getting better...

My partner has a problem though, something that is well discussed on this forum. He is constantly looking for the next greatest thing, the automated, lazy, do nothing solution that will dump money in his lap. He consistently jumps from product to product, picking up bits and pieces of this and that, but never implementing anything or getting any practical knowledge by actually doing it. I bought a PLR package that came with articles, a review, keywords, and the product. Since after 3 weeks of me saying "we need to do market research and pick some niches/products to work with" and him never actually doing it, I decided I would buy someone else's work and see what I could do with it. He spent one night trying to create a blog and submit it and just gave up. I am highly technically proficient, and he is not. So I told him I thought the workload was unfair and that I didn't want to be responsible for research if I was going to be handling setting up websites, submitting, etc.

He agreed with me and said he would do some research. What did he do? He bought another product that supposedly gives you thousands of pre researched niches with all the keywords etc. 3 weeks later from that, he still had nothing done. Then I picked up a product I thought was really worth it, a WSO i found on this forum. I read the whole course and got it, and sent it to him as well and he said he read it. In 1 hour using Micro Niche Finder I came up with 5 really good keyword/product sets and 3 possibles.

He said he was going to come up with more and the last time I saw him he said he had 5 ready. I talked to him online 2 days ago and tried to get the info out of him of what research he had done. He barely answered my questions and only named 4 products, and he had little to no information on actual research he did. This was all after I wrote him this really long email detailing our whole game plan, step by step, and what each of us was responsible for. I also wrote several paragraphs of motivational material to try to get him on track. He never replied to it and only mentioned in the IM that he was going to have some of the content ready for me that night.

Well, two days later and still have heard NOTHING from him. He has not contacted me at all, not even to say that he couldn't get his **** done. Overall, I have spent a lot of time and energy trying to get him motivated and on point, trying to setup a business plan ( i went to a small business startup workshop at the local college too ), coming up with tasks and delegating responsibilities, and have been very patient with him. He has these ups and downs where he gets depressed and doesn't think it will work, and its like, NO **** ITS NOT GONNA WORK BECAUSE YOU AREN'T DOING ANYTHING!

The problem is, he is my friend, I care about him, I want him to have the good life and get out of the job he wants to leave so bad (so he says). If it wasn't for him, I wouldn't know anything about internet marketing (which is soon to be my main source of income). It's really tough because I've already gone to his house and had a 1 hour talk with him about my dissatisfaction of what was going on, the unbalance of the responsibilities, and his problem with always buying new products but never using anything. He also has a listening problem and usually thinks he has more value to add on any topic than anyone else, so you never know if he is actually considering what you are saying or if hes just "letting you speak".

I really can't figure out what his issue is and why its so hard for him to just stick to 1 plan and get something done. It is stressing me out big time because I have been ready to go for months now. I have plenty of tools and web knowledge/experience to be of great use by anyone with an idea and a little bit of research. I am not a fan of the research side, but am a master of implementation. If I have to, Ill start doing my own research, because I know I can make this work. I have a totally positive mindset and I do not doubt that I am going to make this dream a reality.

I am going away Friday-Sunday for a small vaction. I am thinking that if he still has not produced any content at all, any good research, or anything of actual value by the time I return, then I am going to tell him that I will not be starting a business with him.

I want some opinions here. Should I give him more time/more chances? Is cutting him off the best way to approach the situation? And what should I say to him to end the partnership so that I can still try to hang on to the friendship?

Thank you to everyone who read this and also everyone who replies. I appreciate the time and advice that people have, and am very grateful for the many treasures I have already found on this forum.

Vossman
#advice #business #partner
  • Profile picture of the author PowerWealth247
    one of my favorite quotes is :
    "If you cannot change the people around, change the people around you."

    Seriously.
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  • Profile picture of the author casestudykev
    Get together in the same room while you work, you will either gor forward quickly, or you will burn him out.
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    • Profile picture of the author vossman
      Originally Posted by casestudykev View Post

      Get together in the same room while you work, you will either gor forward quickly, or you will burn him out.
      We were meeting regularly until I had another project I took on doing an ecommerce site. We still met but not as frequently and I set us both up so that the tasks were split evenly and both were more focused on our individual proficiencies. At this point in the game, there is no point for him to come over if he is not prepared. I cannot do my part without him doing his. So if he comes over, it will be me waiting/watching him do his side, and then once he gets something together, I will be handling the rest. An online business can work regardless of location of the partners. Phone, Email, IM, Skype, WebEx, etc. all make this possible.

      The last time he came to my house to work we wound up sitting outside for 2 hours talking. I had no problem listening to his ramblings about life and offering my advice but we also talked about next steps (for the millionth time) and he promised he was going to get **** done. Weeks later and hes done nothing with his time. If he spent 1 hour a day doing some research, we'd be just fine.

      Vossman
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      • Profile picture of the author dsanchez
        I don't mean to sound drastic, but this situation sounds (like you said) extremely unfair to me.

        For a partnership to work, all people involved must be in the same frame of mind and work together as a team; otherwise this happens, somebody will end up with all the tasks on his shoulders while the rest (being 1 or more) will do nothing.

        It's just plain unfair that one person does ALL the work while others keep posponing their duties and wasting valuable time.

        Remember, time only goes forward; once is gone is lost.

        Dagmar
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      • Profile picture of the author casestudykev
        Originally Posted by vossman View Post

        We were meeting regularly until I had another project I took on doing an ecommerce site. We still met but not as frequently and I set us both up so that the tasks were split evenly and both were more focused on our individual proficiencies. At this point in the game, there is no point for him to come over if he is not prepared. I cannot do my part without him doing his. So if he comes over, it will be me waiting/watching him do his side, and then once he gets something together, I will be handling the rest. An online business can work regardless of location of the partners. Phone, Email, IM, Skype, WebEx, etc. all make this possible.

        The last time he came to my house to work we wound up sitting outside for 2 hours talking. I had no problem listening to his ramblings about life and offering my advice but we also talked about next steps (for the millionth time) and he promised he was going to get **** done. Weeks later and hes done nothing with his time. If he spent 1 hour a day doing some research, we'd be just fine.

        Vossman

        So, you set a system that he can quickly finish what you assigned him?

        How about this?

        Ask him what would be a productive arrangement and do what he says, try it two times and evaluate.

        This should only be attempted if you recognize that:
        1) things are not working
        2) you are trying to impose your methods/perspectives on someone else


        If I was going to guess, I'd say you and he are different types of people, if you can't find a way to work well together, then you shouldn't work together.

        Your way doesn't work, so give his a try. If his way doesn't work, then you're done.
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        • Profile picture of the author vossman
          Originally Posted by casestudykev View Post

          So, you set a system that he can quickly finish what you assigned him?

          How about this?

          Ask him what would be a productive arrangement and do what he says, try it two times and evaluate.

          This should only be attempted if you recognize that:
          1) things are not working
          2) you are trying to impose your methods/perspectives on someone else


          If I was going to guess, I'd say you and he are different types of people, if you can't find a way to work well together, then you shouldn't work together.

          Your way doesn't work, so give his a try. If his way doesn't work, then you're done.
          We have come up with several methods/plans together in our meetings. All of them fell through because the first steps (which he said he was happy to do) were never completed.

          The current system is one that I found. He read it and liked it, and I basically took all the steps and delegated the responsibilities based on each of our proficiencies. He agreed with me on them.

          I am not imposing anything on him and have left everything completely open for discussion or modification. He, in all cases, has been in total agreement with me on who should do what and the methods in which to do so.

          After each set of plans was drawn up, I followed up with him via email. Most of the emails were just ignored. The next time we hung out (not for business) I didn't bring anything up. He did, and said he had stuff ready, etc. When I started to ask him about it, he had no real information.

          So as you are suggesting, almost all "ways" were both of our creations. And this last one that I put together, he totally agreed upon. We have had multiple discussions on who should do what part, and he's even admitted that he felt like he was not doing enough and not doing his fair share.

          We have worked together well in the past, but its hard to evaluate how well you work with someone when they are not doing ANY work, but keep promising they will.

          Vossman
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  • Profile picture of the author Shana_Adam
    In theory 2 people working together should be great.

    Twice the juice and creativity. However if one is the weak link then It puts a damper on things. You could have an open discusiion and find out what the real problem is and you both need to have some values like a mission statement put in place ie

    1. There is no get rich quick scheme
    2. Knowledge has no power unless executed - avoid purchasing schemes especially as there is lots of free content on the internet
    3. goals in place to prove commitment
    4. Open discussions meetings weekly about problems
    5. Be realistic and not head bank - ie dreaming of riches without any action being executed


    personally as you have already made a few sales - why not just do some solo work and build up some success and re -evaluate whether at all you need a partner.

    It seems like he is not really feeling motivated due to the lack of quick sales!

    Also Frank Kerns mass control is for more advanced marketers. Start slow and work your way up - it will save a lot of frustration in the long run!
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    • Profile picture of the author vossman
      Originally Posted by Shana_Adam View Post

      In theory 2 people working together should be great.

      Twice the juice and creativity. However if one is the weak link then It puts a damper on things. You could have an open discusiion and find out what the real problem is and you both need to have some values like a mission statement put in place ie

      1. There is no get rich quick scheme
      2. Knowledge has no power unless executed - avoid purchasing schemes especially as there is lots of free content on the internet
      3. goals in place to prove commitment
      4. Open discussions meetings weekly about problems
      5. Be realistic and not head bank - ie dreaming of riches without any action being executed


      personally as you have already made a few sales - why not just do some solo work and build up some success and re -evaluate whether at all you need a partner.

      It seems like he is not really feeling motivated due to the lack of quick sales!

      Also Frank Kerns mass control is for more advanced marketers. Start slow and work your way up - it will save a lot of frustration in the long run!
      I agree with you and am slowly doing some different things on the side. But I don't want to get too involved with a project if hes going to turn this around. I resonate with the advice you are giving and understand completely. I have tried relaying this to him multiple times in multiple ways, but hes not being very receptive. I've already brought up these problems, and he has agreed with me on that too. These suggestions are good but are things I have already done.

      Understand this. If he wasn't my friend, he would already be long gone. Is there anyone here who is in a similar situation where one of their friends became their business partner? I have serious doubts after the past 2 months, that in 4 days hes gonna get a spark. I have hope, but logically I don't see the likelihood. I really need advice on the best way to cut him out of the business, while maintaining a level of friendship, if that's even possible. Maybe its not.

      Vossman
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  • Profile picture of the author Shana_Adam
    I believe that unless its a true passion and you guys are 100% in sync with one another.
    Doing business with friends and family is not a good idea.

    Friends especially can be very selfish and jealous, you will never hear the end of it with them with the constant I did this for you - even 10 years later.

    Most friendships die out naturally when one personally grows. Maybe he is wanting out - so by behaving like this he is giving you the message to go your own way- without having to feel guilty about being the one who instigated it so it would be your fault. That is when you become a success or failure he will still have his "hold on you"

    If your a success then - you cheated him.
    If your a failure then - well you deserve it as you cut him out!

    These are psychological tricks people play.
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    • Profile picture of the author vossman
      Originally Posted by Shana_Adam View Post

      I believe that unless its a true passion and you guys are 100% in sync with one another.
      Doing business with friends and family is not a good idea.

      Friends especially can be very selfish and jealous, you will never hear the end of it with them with the constant I did this for you - even 10 years later.

      Most friendships die out naturally when one personally grows. Maybe he is wanting out - so by behaving like this he is giving you the message to go your own way- without having to feel guilty about being the one who instigated it so it would be your fault. That is when you become a success or failure he will still have his "hold on you"

      If your a success then - you cheated him.
      If your a failure then - well you deserve it as you cut him out!

      These are psychological tricks people play.
      Ahh how tricky the mind is. Thanks for this great post, I wasn't even thinking about this.
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      • Profile picture of the author Richard Essi
        Hi Vossman,

        I hear you loud and clear. I hear you when you say that if this guy was not your friend, he would have long been gone. I hear you when you say that you feel for him because you see how badly he wants to get out of his dead end job, which is making him lose his mind, and function like a "walking zombie". I hear you when you say that you have proposed multiple working arrangements to work efficiently and in a more balanced manner, to no avail.

        Shana_Adam mentioned a couple of interesting points about partnerships with family members, and close friends.

        Let me give you an example. I have a very close friend of mine who is actually more like my brother. Our families hang out together, our wives are friends, and our children play together. In other words, it doesn't get any closer than us.

        We both got introduced into Internet Marketing through Corey Rudl's IMC courses. This happened seperately, each on our own end years ago; I was still in the US while he was in Europe. He actually made a little bit of money with this as well as with PPC.

        Now fast forward a couple years later, we meet and realize that we both got started in Internet Marketing at the same time through the same person ( Even though I had been introduced to Internet/Direct Sales through Don Lapre way before).

        Based on what we evaluated together, we came to the conclusion that I had a little bit more knowledge than he did in the IM field. So, we decided to work together....duh!!!!
        It appeared to be more than obvious that we were meant to work together!

        As we started "working together" we noticed that we were both very easily distracted, and we ended jumping from program to program, and not following through with one thing ( The most common disease online today for those looking to make money on the Internet lol ). Your ability to focus and implement is priceless!!

        Anyway, when we got together to work, we would always waste so much time talking strategizing, joking etc...that we realized that we were not effective especially since we were both working full time in our respective jobs - so you can imagine the late hours and early mornings!

        Anyway, to make a long story short Vossman, what I can tell you is that I realized that I was way more effective when working on my own, but then I didn't want to feel like I was leaving him behind.

        But here is my reflection. If I can focus better, and be more consistent on my own, then I stand a better chance of actually succeeding at all my projects, and I will be in a better place to help him if needed.

        He still insists that we work together, and since I can't just "zap" him, I have decided to work with him on long term projects that I could "care less" for. In other words, these are projects that could take months or more to materialize, and I won't mind. But for my own sanity I work like a mad man on my own to try to get out of the 9-5 rut, which I guess is your objective too.

        Your friend is suffering from several issues, too numerous to list. This does not make him a bad guy. His state can be considered as blind for now, and the greatest favor you could do for him is to increase your vision and activate yourself while you can....no situation is permanent!

        Do not let guilt, or fear of rejection or incomprehension from you friend keep you back. You can't give a sip of your glass of water if there is no water in it. Fill up your glass with water first, and then Identify a good source of water so that you can keep on giving your friend all he could ever ask for without ever resenting him.

        It is my opinion that if you don't proceed like this, you will be sucked dry of all your efforts, and resentment and anger will slide in, and once this vile liquid mixes with your blood, getting it out could be much harder than you think!!

        Hope this helps

        All the best!

        SirCharles
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