Is Greed Good? Is There Virtue In Being Selfish?

by vicone
11 replies
"Greed is good" is perhaps one of the most memorable lines to emerge from the movies of the 80s. It was uttered by the character Gordon Gekko, a predatory corporate raider, to his young protege, Bud Fox in the 1987 movie, "Wall Street". Even to those who haven't seen the movie, the Gekko character has come to symbolize sheer amoral greed.

Another significant movie where the principle of self-interest is strongly highlighted is the 1948 film "The Fountainhead", based on the novel of the same name, by Ayn Rand. this was produced from a screenplay that Rand herself had adapted and starred Gary Cooper and Patricia Neal. However, unlike "Wall Street", which portrayed the darker side of self-interest, "The Fountainhead" expounded Rand's theories of egoism in an heroic light.

First published in 1943, the novel became a best seller by word of mouth. It was the story of an independent, crusading architect, Howard Roark, and embodies Rand's personal philosophy of ethical egoism - of acting according to rational self-interest.

Egoism is a doctrine that holds we should act so as to promote our own interests. This is contrasted with Altruism which, according to the Columbia Encyclopedia, holds the criterion of morality to be the welfare of others.

When I first came across Rand's ideas some years ago in her much smaller work, "The Virtue of Selfishness: A New Concept of Egoism" (1964) - "The Fountainhead" is a fairly hefty novel - I was both horrified and fascinated. The ideas challenged many of the basic concepts I had been taught throughout my life; ideas which underlined the absolute virtue of being "unselfish". To be accused of being selfish was a terrible putdown!

Notions of love, kindness, generosity, helping others, "do unto others as you would have them do unto you", and the like, had an obvious merit - if we all acted kindly towards one another, we would all benefit.

Yet the concept of 'rational self-interest' continued to have some appeal as I gained more experience of life and attempted to reconcile it with other principles, in particular in the way our thoughts and actions impact on the world around us. I began to see a closer connection between what we do and what we get - "We reap what we sow" - and that this had a stronger and broader application than was commonly understood. For instance, the notion of forgiveness may be followed with some difficulty by those who've been wronged but regard the instruction to have divine origins and should therefore be followed.

Yet, considered in the light of 'reaping what we sow', failing to forgive - carrying a grudge - has been the at the heart of enormous grief and misery, including feuds, wars, vendettas, terrorism, as well as personal conflicts with family members and friends.

In other words, it makes good sense not to hold grudges against others as that diminishes them and they feel obliged to retaliate. It makes good sense to treat others with kindness, compassion, appreciation and generosity for that empowers and uplifts others and creates a world that we can experience directly - one of warmth, peace and harmony.

In a world that is dynamic - constantly changing - we will attract those who share our attitudes and values. Those who consider kindness to be weak will move away to spend more time with brutish friends; however, those who appreciate the warmth of kindness will be attracted. Treating others well is in our best interests, if that is what we want - to live in peace and harmony.

Recognizing that we have the power of creating those personal worlds that reflect who we are, also brings with it a responsibility: taking control of our own lives. We cannot say "I will treat people badly and set that aside - only my good works are to have an effect on my personal experience." If we do not consciously choose to direct the way our lives develop, we still continue to reap what we have sown; we still continue to impact on the world around us but what we receive is the default - we respond to what we receive, the good and the bad, but distance ourselves from the source of what we get. It is somebody else's fault that misfortunes have come our way. It was never our intent that we are constantly short of love or money; that we are exploited and disadvantaged.

Taking personal responsibility for our own lives places us in the position of being able to shape our lives in such a way that we like what we get. We are able to create for ourselves the sort of world that we want to experience. We are attracted to those situations that will benefit us, according to what we appreciate. We move away from situations that displease us and don't match our values. We shape our lives by developing those attitudes and values most likely to benefit us and then follow our feelings according the results we receive.

Taking personal responsibility for our lives places us in the position of being able to help others in a way that will benefit them. By demonstrating that following this approach has been to our benefit, we can lead by example, show others that "this works for me - try it". Instead of merely offering fish to feed others for a day, week or month, we teach them to fish and feed them for a lifetime. That is true altruism.

Ivan
#creating our lives #egoism #good #greed #personal responsibility #selfish #selfishness #taking control #virtue
  • Profile picture of the author coby02
    I agree with you fully. Show respect no matter if others do not know how, or do not care to, the onus is on all of us to treat one another with respect and kindness at all times..... Help others when you can and you will be rewarded later on in life. Just by saying HELLO to another you just might of made their day a whole lot better even a smile while passing by someone on the street is always very pleasing....Alot of people need our help and just one kind word to them can just be the thing that they really needed to feel a little happier..... that was a very interesting topic
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  • Profile picture of the author Scott Muzzey
    I believe every culture on this planet has a version of the Golden Rule. I know that one can argue as to the effectiveness of this rule; how do you treat a masochist or a sadist? But I won't digress. I bring this up to offer some evidence of the universal nature of kindness.

    Selfish behavior is relative is it not? A behavior may be viewed as selfish to one set of persons (usually the ones not receiving the advantage of this behavior) yet the same behavior may be viewed as selfless to others (usually those receiving the advantage of the behavior). I am trying to think of an example of this but can't right now, it is late.

    I really like your threads Ivan. You either ask very interesting questions or else you have great answers. But more importantly you make me think.

    Scott
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    • Profile picture of the author OnlineMasterMind
      Greed is bad... just ask anyone "struggling" through life just trying to "survive."

      It's not right to try and get more than your "fair share."

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      • Profile picture of the author Chris Lockwood
        Originally Posted by p1a1u1l1 View Post

        Whats wrong with getting more than your fair share? if you put more than
        your fair share of work then you should get more out.
        I think he was joking. "Fair share" is a code phrase the socialists like to use to make it sound like some people make "too much" money (i.e. more than other people).

        To answer the original question- it depends how you define "greed", a word that is way overused these days, like "scam".

        For instance, if you run a business to make money (which is the whole purpose of business), some people will call that greedy. Yet people who get jobs just for the money are never called greedy.

        You could argue that many employees who just show up and do a half-ass job are more greedy than their employers, who have to please their customers.

        Keep in mind when Hollywood has a character say "greed is good", what they are trying to say is all business people or rich people are greedy. Hollywood is amazingly anti-capitalist, ironic considering what huge companies the studios are.
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  • Profile picture of the author wealthy affiliate
    Hi, there

    This is rather philosophical and what is interesting is that my name is also ivan.

    It seems i have to write something here. I believe every question has 2 answers. And everything has 2 sides. There is no "the only answer". That's easten philosophy.
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  • Profile picture of the author Bayo
    Greed isn't good.

    Being selfish is because self-ish = Self-care - You're focusing on self. A lot of people have this misguided notion that looking after #1 is bad and it should always be about the other person...rubbish.

    You matter and if you're not OK, you're not going to be in a position to help anyone else are you?
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    • Profile picture of the author lilmechante01
      Originally Posted by Bayo View Post

      Greed isn't good.

      Being selfish is because self-ish = Self-care - You're focusing on self. A lot of people have this misguided notion that looking after #1 is bad and it should always be about the other person...rubbish.

      You matter and if you're not OK, you're not going to be in a position to help anyone else are you?
      I'm going to approach this from a IChing (or Taoist) standpoint.

      I will agree with you a person should love and take care of himself/herself so that they are in the position to love and help others....in other words, improving yourself for that of being service to the greater good... then you are working toward that of cosmic order, community, benefit, and great power thus creating balance.

      But, if you concentrate and focus so much on your own needs that you disregard and neglect the needs of those around you...then the selfishness will eventually lead to you toward adversity, decline, stagnation, and repair because the Universe will end up stepping in to create the balance for you.

      Think I'll try to stay on the good side of Karma
      Namaste
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      I CHOOSE to re-create MYSELF anew every single moment and experience the GRANDEST VERSION of the GREATEST VISION I have about WHO I AM!
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      • Profile picture of the author vicone
        Just a curious question for Namaste.

        Just looking at your location - Is Anahata a place?

        Anahata is also the 4th Chakra. According to Wikipedia:

        "In Anahata, one is making decisions, 'following your heart', based upon one's higher self, and not from the unfulfilled emotions and desires of lower nature. The wish-fulfilling tree, kalpa taru, resides here, symbolising the ability to manifest whatever you wish to happen in the world.

        It is also associated with love and compassion, charity to others, and forms of psychic healing."

        Nice one, Namaste!

        Ivan
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        • Profile picture of the author lilmechante01
          Originally Posted by vicone View Post

          Just a curious question for Namaste.

          Just looking at your location - Is Anahata a place?

          Anahata is also the 4th Chakra. According to Wikipedia:

          "In Anahata, one is making decisions, 'following your heart', based upon one's higher self, and not from the unfulfilled emotions and desires of lower nature. The wish-fulfilling tree, kalpa taru, resides here, symbolising the ability to manifest whatever you wish to happen in the world.

          It is also associated with love and compassion, charity to others, and forms of psychic healing."

          Nice one, Namaste!

          Ivan
          Anahata--The 4th Chakra is precisely the "place" listed for my location. I try to reside in the upper chakras as much as I can (and one of the lower ones which I won't list )-- although with Kundalini I try to keep all balanced, and am exploring the others as well...gotten to the 0 through 8th so far :rolleyes: I also have to remember at times that people who don't know about the chakras, or those who "live" through the lower chakras may think I'm a bit off-the-wall at times with what I write lol But, I'm just me...even if I seem a bit quirky:p
          Thanks Ivan!
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          I CHOOSE to re-create MYSELF anew every single moment and experience the GRANDEST VERSION of the GREATEST VISION I have about WHO I AM!
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