Napoleon Hill was BROKE!

by Shaine
38 replies
Dan Kennedy in his Wealth Attraction Seminar, mentioned the Napolian Hill actually spent a lot of his life broke even after the success of "Think and Grow Rich".

He said that Hill was rescued later in life by W. Clement Stone and hired as a sales trainer. Which is kind of ironic since Stone was actually inspired by Hill's work, yet Hill ended up practically broke and Stone very rich.

Well Dan goes on to explain that the differece between their success lies in the titles of each of their books. Hill's "Think and Grow Rich"and Stone's "The Success System That Never Fails"

He goes on to explain how thinking is not enough to stay rich you have to have proven systems in place combined with prosperity thinking.

Here's the YouTube video I found of the seminar: Dan Kennedy Wealth Attraction DVD 1 - YouTube

Dan Kennedy gives a lot of valuable information throughout it.
#broke #hill #napoleon
  • Profile picture of the author Jonathan 2.0
    Banned
    To be fair a great percentage of "Think And Grow Rich" was based on interviews Hill did with the most wealthy and successful people at the time.

    (Personally, I still think it's an amazing book.) And, the amount of people who credit their success to TAGR is something to consider. Even people like Jim Carrey and Bruce Lee.
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  • Profile picture of the author C G
    I don't care if he was broke.. His book changed my life

    Cheers,

    C.G.
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  • Profile picture of the author Raydal
    I love Dan Kennedy's philosophy in this presentation. His Wealth Attraction
    book also discusses the same issues of asking for money for your product
    or service.

    I remember the first time I charged $10,000 for a copywriting job it was
    a psychological hurdle--thinking that you don't deserve the money to
    thinking that you are charging too much.

    Today that client is a millionaire--changes your thinking very quickly!

    -Ray Edwards
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  • Profile picture of the author Mr Bill
    I'm sure Dan is the man but I'm sorry to say OP but I think that the title of this thread is in very poor taste. You even capitalised BROKE as if it was the only measure of a man and that we should never take advice from people unless we know the exact details of their financial situation. I'm sure he was broke many times as are we all. 99.9% of the people I've met on this earth are "bouncing off broke" all the time. I'm pretty sure he'd be more than a little humiliated with people referring to his partnership with JW as him being "rescued" and if he was still alive and able to defend himself I'm sure he'd take issue with your sensational headline. That's not really showing him the respect millions and millions of people would insist that he deserves.

    Lots of brilliant people have been broke in their lives. Some of them are only broke because they spend all their money having a fantastic life - nothing wrong with that. Others because they made one or two disastrous decisions that wiped them out. Others are just happy living a cheap life. I'm sure he could have got a job if he wanted or needed to then he'd be be "bouncing off broke" like the rest of us. I don't think it diminishes what he wrote and the thoughts he had that he shared. The book is about him reporting on what he discovered while interviewing "rich" people.

    Many journalists also give people valid advice on money and I'm pretty sure most of them aren't rich either. What about all the "financial advisers" - most of them are in jobs and bouncing off broke as well. Good advice comes from many areas and in all sorts of packages. Through his words he gave me great advice in that thinking right will help you believe in yourself enough to take action. Before that, my life was full of bitter school teachers telling me that I was useless (which I was most of the time...lol) but the one I remember the most (and choose to remember) told me I wrote very well and was a very intelligent kid. I looked at her like she was drunk of course but later in my life I looked back at her as the one who gave me confidence where there previously was none.

    Napoleon Hill did the same for me. He exposed me to a better way of thinking and I couldn't care less how much money he had. I never looked to him for advice on making money. I only looked at him as a very important thought leader and he will permanently and irreversibly be so forever.
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    • Profile picture of the author tobyjensen
      Gurus are often broke. Knowing means you have answers. Doing means you will make money. Take Google for instance. It had to have a side avenue of ads to generate money. Providing a search service in and of itself does not make money. Both knowing and doing are required to have a high income stream.

      Just asking your life coach if they are rich is a poor question. They are probably just a good salesman if they are rich. Would you let the salesman at the dealership work on your car? Exactly! But they make tons more than the mechanic in the back.

      Start with the basics: what do you need to get done?
      What will get you there?
      That's a good start. Just do that. Things can get to complicated very quickly.
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  • Profile picture of the author Odahh
    broke is not bad ..poor is .

    Hill had bad management skills of the money when he made it or he would dump it all in a new business .

    there are three skill set that somone need in a team to have lasting success . someone to make a thing someone to market the thing and someone to watch the money .

    you can make a fortune in the short term make and marketing stuff..but without somone watch the money ..you are in trouble .

    how many of say you are a football team like the patriots .. and you win 3 superbowls in 4 years.. and suddenly there are all these books one winning and being champions .. and how to dominate .. and then for the next ten years you migh get to the big game a few times but fail ... the number of books out there goes down .

    what was the cyclists name .. i know i read a few of his books on winning and being the best and went into how he was not doping .. turns out he was .. oh yeah Niel Armstrong
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    • Profile picture of the author The Niche Man
      I get the irony of your headline. That a man who spent his life detailing the lives of some of the riches men in history, died broke. That doesn't make since on the surface does it?

      Of course the monumental legacy he left dwarfs in comparison to the financial expectations people expected of him. But it does show the thin line existing between knowing success principles and executing them personally.

      It reminds me of the hair stylist with split-ends as well as the preacher or police officer with with wayward kids. Sometimes a person can spend so much time serving others they can forget to serve themselves.

      I shudder to think where or who I'd be if I hadn't read that book.

      Thank you Napoleon Hill
      God Rest Your Soul
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  • Profile picture of the author tidungcity
    Well Dan goes on to explain that the differece between their success lies in the titles of each of their books. Hill's "Think and Grow Rich"and Stone's "The Success System That Never Fails" Jakarta Pulau Tidung Indonesian.
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    • Profile picture of the author danex
      A lot of myth about this issue.
      Hill & Stone were partners in Succes Unlimited Magazine, so
      I don't think he died broke.
      Og Mandino was their manager and editor.

      I'm not a big fan of Hill's books.
      All their teachings are based on the Charles Haanel work (the masterkey system).
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  • Profile picture of the author Young Financier
    Hill himself explained in his work that there were many instances where he'd accumulate a fortune and then lose it somehow. I don't think Hill had any problem making money, his problem was keeping the money he'd made. I remember a letter that Hill had written to Charles Haanel in 1919 telling Haanel that because of applying what he'd learned in "The Master Key System," he was able to secure a position paying $105,000 a year (that would be $1.4 Million in today's money). So, again, I don't think Hill had a problem MAKING money.

    This also reinforces what Danex stated about Hill being influenced by Haanel. Here's the text, verbatim, from the letter Hill wrote to Haanel.

    April 21, 1919.
    Mr. Charles F. Haanel,
    St. Louis, Mo.

    My dear Mr. Haanel:

    You probably know, from the editorial in the January issue of the Golden Rule, copy of which my Secretary sent to you, that I began twenty-two years ago as a coal miner at a dollar a day.

    I have just been retained by a ten million dollar corporation at a salary of $105,200.00 a year, for a portion of my time only, it having been agreed that I shall continue as editor of the Hill’s Golden Rule.

    I believe in giving credit where it is due, therefore I believe I ought to inform you that my present success and the success which has followed my work as President of the Napoleon Hill Institute is due largely to the principles laid down in The Master-Key System.

    You are doing a good work by helping people to realize that nothing is impossible of accomplishment which a man can create in his imagination. Surely my own experience proves this.

    I shall cooperate with you in getting your course into the hands of the many who so greatly need your message.

    Cordially and sincerely,
    Napoleon Hill,
    Editor, The Golden Rule“Chicago, Illinois
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  • Profile picture of the author Dain Supero
    Originally Posted by Shaine View Post

    Dan Kennedy in his Wealth Attraction Seminar, mentioned the Napolian Hill actually spent a lot of his life broke even after the success of "Think and Grow Rich".

    He said that Hill was rescued later in life by W. Clement Stone and hired as a sales trainer. Which is kind of ironic since Stone was actually inspired by Hill's work, yet Hill ended up practically broke and Stone very rich.

    Well Dan goes on to explain that the differece between their success lies in the titles of each of their books. Hill's "Think and Grow Rich"and Stone's "The Success System That Never Fails"

    He goes on to explain how thinking is not enough to stay rich you have to have proven systems in place combined with prosperity thinking.

    Here's the YouTube video I found of the seminar: Dan Kennedy Wealth Attraction DVD 1 - YouTube

    Dan Kennedy gives a lot of valuable information throughout it.
    1. Have you actually read Think and Grow Rich? The reason the title begins with "Think" is because all "Action" begins with thought. I cannot recall Hill ever saying that we should stop at thinking and not follow up with positive action.

    2. There's no system that never fails. If it's man-made, it can and will fail.

    3. Hill's system has and does work for countless persons. It also, like all other systems, has failed many persons.

    In the end, it's not the system that determines success or failure. It's the person.
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    • Profile picture of the author John D
      It's my understanding that Hill never did it for the money. He always took pay that was far less than what he deserved for his services.

      I read TAGR a few months ago, and it is full of value. I'm currently reading Hill's other book "The Law of Success", it's a really deep and detailed read on the inner workings of the mind and nature...not quite what I expected...but I can dig it.

      I think his estate/legacy is very wealthy to this day, and his influence is without measure. So I guess him being broke is relative, considering their are alot of BROKE people with money around too.
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  • Profile picture of the author rbates
    There are a lot of people who are making a great deal of money,
    but are spending a great deal more. Just because someone
    has a great idea, like TAGR, or is making mega-money through
    some other means, does not mean that they well equipped to
    handle their money.

    I do not know the specifics of Hill's money problems, and likely no
    one in this forum does (well, probably someone will say they do), but
    that book was extremely innovative at that time, and it is still relevant.

    If a heart surgeon makes $4 million a year, but blows his/her money on
    vacations, houses, cars, whatever, and ends up in debt, does that mean
    that he/she is not a good heart surgeon?
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  • Profile picture of the author Arun Chandran
    I think that Grow Rich with Peace of Mind was his best book. I don't know why it never became as popular.
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  • Profile picture of the author anwar001
    Most of the world's richest people were probably broke at some point in their lives. If he was always broke, then that is another issue. But if he was sometimes broke and sometimes had lot of money so he had some abilities to make money, but maybe he didn't manage it properly or invested in risky things.
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    • Profile picture of the author SupplementTalk
      Think and Grow Rich is such an amazing book and one of my favorites of all time. This book is almost like a school textbook for the aspiring marketer or entreprenuer.

      I know of a group of hundreds of people that actually do a morning study of this book and then have open discussion.

      Napolon Hill and Brian Tracy (The Luck Factor) are my two favorites for inspiration about building your own wealth inside and out.
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  • Originally Posted by Shaine View Post

    Dan Kennedy in his Wealth Attraction Seminar, mentioned the Napolian Hill actually spent a lot of his life broke even after the success of "Think and Grow Rich".

    He said that Hill was rescued later in life by W. Clement Stone and hired as a sales trainer. Which is kind of ironic since Stone was actually inspired by Hill's work, yet Hill ended up practically broke and Stone very rich.

    Well Dan goes on to explain that the differece between their success lies in the titles of each of their books. Hill's "Think and Grow Rich"and Stone's "The Success System That Never Fails"

    He goes on to explain how thinking is not enough to stay rich you have to have proven systems in place combined with prosperity thinking.

    Here's the YouTube video I found of the seminar: Dan Kennedy Wealth Attraction DVD 1 - YouTube

    Dan Kennedy gives a lot of valuable information throughout it.

    Well, as Nap Hill's grandson, let me assure you that Napoleon's Hill was NOT even close to being broke when he died. He had at least a million in Combined Insurance of American stock. I have his Will.

    When he and Stone teamed up, Nap had been very successful in California radio and TV....ever seen those u-tube videos? JB Hill
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    • Profile picture of the author Mr Bill
      Originally Posted by Nothing but the truth View Post




      Well, as Nap Hill's grandson, let me assure you that Napoleon's Hill was NOT even close to being broke when he died. He had at least a million in Combined Insurance of American stock. I have his Will.

      When he and Stone teamed up, Nap had been very successful in California radio and TV....ever seen those u-tube videos? JB Hill
      Thanks you for replying JB! Finally some real facts in this cliche driven sensationalist forum! I'd like to apologize on behalf of this forum for this thread which was atrocious from the start. Your Grandad did a hell of a job inspiring millions of us. You should and must be very proud.

      Well done for taking the time to debunk the title and message of this embarrassing thread!
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    • Profile picture of the author Young Financier
      Originally Posted by Nothing but the truth View Post




      Well, as Nap Hill's grandson, let me assure you that Napoleon's Hill was NOT even close to being broke when he died. He had at least a million in Combined Insurance of American stock. I have his Will.

      When he and Stone teamed up, Nap had been very successful in California radio and TV....ever seen those u-tube videos? JB Hill
      This is the only post in this thread that matters....the actual grandson of the man in question. So I think he'd be in a position to know.
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  • Profile picture of the author Sisi
    Really cool! Thank you! I have read the book myself
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  • Profile picture of the author JohnnyPlan
    Really, what does it matter if a person lived or died broke so long as his life amounted to something good. So many people benefited from this man's contribution to literature. How many authors can actually boast fans that line up to say how their life was changed after reading just one book?
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    • Profile picture of the author The Niche Man
      Well, based on post #20 ... and if it's true, I think Dan Kennedy owes someone an apology. That's where the O.P obtained the original information. She didn't make it up - she provided video of Dan Kennedy saying it. Did we forget that?

      But I still agree with past comments, either way it doesn't affect the legacy this giant of a man has established for all eternity.

      God only knows where a lot of people would be if he hadn't taken that challenge from Andrew Carnegie. Remember the stopwatch test Andrew Carnegie gave him?

      Where Carnegie explained what would go into writing the book, how he would give him introduction and access to the world's riches men to interview. How many years it would take and how much personal sacrifice it would require. The challenge? He wouldn't get paid for it. Wow! Carnegie had a stopwatch hidden out of view and later admitted had Mr. Hill took too long to make the decision Carnegie would have cancelled the deal.

      How many of us would have passed the stopwatch test? Mr. Hill did and the world is a better place for it. God Bless his soul and may he always rest in peace. - Amen.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mr Bill
    True but she chose the topic thread knowing it would appear in search engines and it would damage a good dead man's reputation. She hasn't been back here to respond to any of our posts and could have adjusted the title of her thread but she's been absent so let's not forget all of that either.

    I stand by my original comment. This thread is in poor taste even if post 20 is fake. I'd like to see it taken down.
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    • Profile picture of the author The Niche Man
      Originally Posted by Mr Bill View Post

      True but she chose the topic thread knowing it would appear in search engines and it would damage a good dead man's reputation. She hasn't been back here to respond to any of our posts and could have adjusted the title of her thread but she's been absent so let's not forget all of that either.

      I stand by my original comment. This thread is in poor taste even if post 20 is fake. I'd like to see it taken down.
      I don't know her, and I'm sure she can defend herself (if she ever comes back). But I wouldn't like to think she did it just to purposely damage his reputation, no more than Dan Kennedy - who she got the original statement from.

      I suspect if you or I said it, she would have ignored it. But because a creditable icon in our industry made the statement, it caught her attention, like it did all of us.

      Besides it would take far more than that to blemish Mr. Hill's reputation. His body of work is legendary and cemented in history.
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      • Profile picture of the author markmandy54
        Is it ironic that the most influential people who have lived died broke of material possessions yet were the wealthiest individuals of contribution, happiness, love, etc?
        I'm not saying money is the root of evil, however most unfortunately pursue it as their master as opposed to leveraging it to provide opportunity. A lot can be learned by opening the mind/heart regardless of their financial stature. I appreciate this post as it provokes some excellent questions.
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  • Profile picture of the author Bhekizwe
    There is an emphasis on following through in business.Napoleon Hill brought out ground breaking researching on "sexual tranmsutation", "master mind principle" etc however follow up is so important
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  • Profile picture of the author JoshDylan
    In all honesty, you would be surprised just how many of the worlds wealthiest started off with nothing but the clothes on their backs. All it takes is ambition and determination to achieve your goals and ANYTHING is possible. Just takes time and effort. Great book though, gotta agree.
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    • Profile picture of the author Mr Bill
      Originally Posted by markmandy54 View Post

      ...I'm not saying money is the root of evil,...
      That's good because it's not. It's the love of money that is the root of some evil.

      Originally Posted by JoshDylan View Post

      In all honesty, you would be surprised just how many of the worlds wealthiest started off with nothing but the clothes on their backs...
      You see, now, if the feeling behind this thread was that he started out broke and then created his own wealth the title would make more sense. I still think the OP should come back and edit the title. OP where are you?
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  • Profile picture of the author JoshDylan
    ^Agreed - Self made millionaires do make a good story for a book though
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  • Profile picture of the author writeaway
    Great point. Systems enable enduring success. While the right mindset is crucial, it must be part of an overall system of success.
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  • Profile picture of the author tobyjensen
    Considering the context of this site the OP was just plain genius with the headline as far as I can see. This thread is still alive after all this time. People are still discussing the (mostly) valid merits of Hill, whether money is important, and what does success mean.

    Keep it up. All of you!
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  • Profile picture of the author mspillman
    He may have suffered several financial setbacks but, by my account, he was FAR WEALTHIER than most people on this planet if, by nothing else, from the wisdom that he picked up on during his research.
    Riches do not always equate to money. Perhaps that is the problem...too many people think that it does.
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  • Profile picture of the author tidungcity
    Many journalists also give people valid advice on money and I'm pretty sure most of them aren't rich either. Info Pulau Tidung And Wisata Pulau Seribu Paket Wisata Pulau Tidung
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  • Profile picture of the author Rory Wilkinson
    Its an interesting point.

    Some of the best sports coaches ever are those that didn't play the game themselves at a high level. It doesn't mean that the principles and ideas aren't good. Their expertise is that they can help others to get better results and at the end of the day that is how they should be measured.

    And this book certainly helped a lot of people get better results.
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  • Profile picture of the author ashten
    I find it quite funny because although I do think Dan is a brilliant copywriter/marketer, I think he might of heard some of "he say, she say" and didn't do a bit of investigating himself.

    In Napoleon Hill's Law of Success, one of the main principles is ACTION. Applying that which you learn. I like Napoleon Hill because of the Philosophy of Success. The main point is to not focus on the money, money is valueless, it's just a brilliant tool for exchanging values.

    Assets are the TRUE value. What is an asset? An object of value that you can trade at any time for money. If you have all of your "wealth" in money form, the truth of the matter is that you're loosing more and more every year @ 3% loss due to inflation.

    If, on the other hand, you have all (or most) of your "wealth" in assets and only focus on growing an income based off of cash flow, then you have bypassed the 3% loss and actually had a x% gain instead, (compounded if you're bright)

    The key point is this:
    It doesn't seem to me that Dan Kennedy did his own research and one of Napoleon's main point in his philosophy was to turn a blind ear to those who have opinions based off of "he say, she say" or "hear, tell." So even if he did have no money in paper form, you can't say he wasn't (or isn't) wealthy because he still has thriving assets up healthy and alive today providing value far past his death, and there's really no end to it, I see that being a HUGE success in my eyes.
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  • Profile picture of the author Matthew Trujillo
    I think being rich is a state of mind. I know what it's like to be dead broke.

    But in my mind I never felt like that way, my mindset is the polar opposite of broke.

    What you think, so shall you become. Napoleon Hill demonstrates how to have a rich mindset.

    He isn't telling you how to become rich , but rather how to program your mind for success in life.
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