I.M.Retired

There is a new start-up company promoting mobile sites to businesses in a small city near where I live. Today the owner contacted me about developing a strategic marketing plan for selling mobile websites to local business owners.

A problem was discussed that neither of us were sure how to tackle. I'm hoping my fellow Warriors can give some insights or work-arounds to this situation.

Here's the problem:

There is one major website design company in our area that has the lion's share of the market. The company registers a domain name for the local business owners and provides hosting and web design services.

So, if the new start-up person wants to create a mobile site for someone that already has a website and hosting, basically, it appears that they would have to create an entirely separate mobile site on a different domain with a different hosting package - because the 'designer' does not give customers access to their domain names or control panels.

Nor can customers update their own sites or renew their own domain names. The 'designer' charges for every update and updates the domain registration on behalf of the customer.

Plus, if a customer tries to move away from them (I'm trying not to disclose the designer's gender here) to a new company, the designer closes the website and buys the domain name so the customer can no longer use it. This person has been getting away with this because of lack of serious competition in the area.

My question is: How would you tackle this situation in marketing a mobile website to local business owners, as 90% of the business owners in this area have websites under control of 'the 'designer.' (Gegraphically, our area is fairly small - so it's hard to cut in to someone else's territory, especially when you are going in direct competition with them.)

Would you simply go for new accounts with businesses that don't have an existing website? (That's probably what I would do, but I'm only doing a marketing plan, not running the business.)

Or would you attempt to get business owners to gain access to their cPanel or whatever control panel is being used for their website? With access to their control panel, all that would be needed would be a sub-domain for the mobile site on their existing domain and hosting package. (Many business owners are not happy with 'the designer' and are looking for alternatives, so there is already a hungry market waiting to be tapped.)

Or is there a better approach? (Keeping in mind that the start-up person wants to focus on mobile sites only, and has no desire to set-up non-mobile websites. The start-up person has affiliate links for domain name registrations and hosting, but does not want to become a reseller, either.)

You comments and suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

MKBridge

The problem here is even if you make a separate site, hosted separately, you still need to get access to the main site to install a redirect script. Therefore, I would go for businesses that aren't signed up with this "designer". I feel sorry for all his clients.

SocialSequencing

Why not work together with the "Big" company? Sort of a JV? I mean, your start-up isn't interested in non-mobile sites. Instead of focusing on new business, I would contact the Big company instead offering my services. The Big company will hire your start-up purely for mobile, while focusing on their business strategy and your startup will get business. Sounds to me like a win-win on both sides!

just my 2 cents

Chiel

I.M.Retired

MKBridge: Thanks for the heads-up. For some reason I overlooked that part of the equation. However, if a site was designed purely as a mobile site then there wouldn't be a need for a redirect, would there? Some businesses simply want a mobile site and don't want to be bothered with a larger site.

Chiel: The "Big" company doesn't JV with anyone. The want the pie, the whole pie and nothing but the pie. (But it is a nice idea...)

SocialSequencing

So there's no way around it, so it would seem. Worst case of a monopoly in my opinion, that doesn't allow any newcomer into the marketplace.

Do you know any of the businesses that currently have a site running with them? I would want to take a closer look at their contract. I mean, they have the businessowners in their claws holding their domainnames up for ransom anytime he want to move to another business.

midasman09

Set up your own "Mobile Directory" of Mobile Sites that YOU create....with your own "Area Domain"....get a domain like "DouglasCountyMobile.com"... then ....register Sub Domains for each town and each site.

http://roseburg.douglascountymobile.com the Starting Page for the Town you're starting with.

On this first page is a List of Clickable Labels; Where To eat - Where To Shop - Where To Stay - Services - Medical - Dental

And....on each of these Pages is a List of Clickable Labels; In the "Where To Eat" Category you have a List of Clickable Labels showing Cuisine; Chinese - Italian - Greek - Mexican - Sushi - Thai etc....and....clicking on any of these Links brings up 2 or 3 restaurants in that Cuising Category.

Now....each restaurant's URL is http://tomspizza.douglascountymobile.com or.... http://bobsbbq.douglascountymobile.com

And...when you fill up categories in that town, you make a sub-domain for the next town;
http://winston.douglascountymobile.com

then the next town http://sutherlin.douglascountymobile.com

with all the categories in each and each business gets their own SUB-Domain.

You probably don't have a clue as to what I'm talking about but....that's what I'm doing in my area....and I'm using Quentin's Script and Tutorials to set this up.

Don Alm

I.M.Retired

I do, actually. I'm really not as stupid as I look, you know!

However, the problem I'm addressing here is not how I would develop the site; rather, it involves developing a work-around tactic for a local business owner who wants to create mobile sites for customers. (And who does not want to offer a whole range of other services to customers who are already hooked into a 'Big' local designer who does not want to share 'their' piece of the pie.) (The title of this thread is perhaps a bit misleading, but I wasn't sure how to word it properly.)

Your advice is well thought out and I appreciated it very much! You have basically outlined a very workable plan for creating local mobile directories - something well worth considering by anyone who is interested in offering this type of service to their clients.

Val

SocialSequencing

Hi Don,

Are these scripts and tuts available on WF? Could you point me in that direction?

Thanks

Amber Jalink

Val - I'm kind of questioning the "designer's" legalities here actually.

If a person pays for the site (i.e., if its in their contract that their domain IS included), then the icann laws are that the designer does NOT own it, and those people legally have the right to transfer it including the design if they actually have it stated that they paid for it.

If the designer "includes the design free" then obviously that's not the case.

I'm a little unsure on what you mean by this:

How is this possible? How can the buy the domain name, if the customer already owns it??

Amber

Amber Jalink, Founder http://www.dime-co.com
WSO - Create Native Apps - Prelaunch Announcement

Amber Jalink

What I would totally suggest, is that you tell your client/person to team up with someone who DOES want to do the sites for them!

i.e., package price: $xxx includes new design plus mobile site, and $xx monthly hosting.

PM me. My programmer is going after doing this RIGHT NOW (not mobile) so he'd be thrilled to team up with someone who has the leads. (Plus he does hosting)

Amber

Amber Jalink, Founder http://www.dime-co.com
WSO - Create Native Apps - Prelaunch Announcement

I.M.Retired

I don't know for sure, I'm only speculating here, but from what I've heard, 'they' offer a free domain name with their website package. So the domain name is registered by the designer on the designer's reseller account, and while the person's name is the name of the registrant, the designer puts their name as the technical contact.

When renewal time comes, if the person wants to transfer the domain to another registrar, the designer reminds them that it was a free domain as part of the customer's website package. Most customers are not all that savvy - so they back down.

The designer tries to stall until the domain name has expired and tells the customer that the domain has expired, but conveniently forgets to mention the 30 day grace period. The name will then expire and once it is re-released, the designer can buy it free and clear, as usually the customer's domain is very specific to their business and the chance is slight that anyone else might want it. Or if the customer goes elsewhere, the new website designer has to go to bat and try to get possession of the domain name - or register a new one, which means the customer's best business name is gone and they are forced to settle for an alternate name.

Since no one can prove that the designer is doing anything illegal, most folks just move on. And the designer hosts the website and does not give the customer access to their control panel.

Jay Moreno

Sounds like a law suit waiting to happen...

Personally I wouldn't let it stop you, I would move forward with your business plan, if the problem arises expose what they are doing, you are the good guys and could possibly get the up sell of a new main website in it's entirety.

Once people find out this guy is doing shady things I doubt they will want to continue doing business, even if it means a lot of messing around getting access to the domain and website, I would rather cut my losses than be held to ransom. What's to stop him charging them extortionate renewal fees etc later on down the road. If someone was jeopardizing the branding of any of my business's I would not hesitate to take legal action, on the flip side we have investors that are savvy lawyers so that's a bit easier for me to put in action! LOL

Amber Jalink

Well what this guy is doing IS illegal according to the ICANN laws. If these people are the registrant, what they need to do is have someone directly contact the registrar to move the domain to a different host (and get access to it).

Doesn't matter if the "designer" is on as admin/tech contacts, its ultimately the Registrant who is the ultimate owner. Just because he included it free, if it states their name as the registrant, and in the terms they bought that they do own it, then this person is doing it completely shady/borderline illegal.

He's actually cybersquatting his own customer's sites - illegal.

So what needs to be done is a few things:

1) The customers need to get together and file a law suit against this person. Doesn't matter that they don't know everything - just get someone who DOES to handle this.

2) File a complaint with this person's Registrar (i.e., if its Network Solutions - they have BIG issues with stuff like this person is trying to pull). They would likely revoke this person's status.

3) Have the people (or someone for them) get access to the domain name through the registrar to set up their own account, or do it through someone else. That way this cybersquatting can't be done.

4) Definitely have people start posting publicly on places like consumer reports or the better business bureaus and chamber of commerce (esp. if the designer is a member) - having bad publicity and pressure might help make a few changes.

But I definitely say a lawsuit (or even the threat of one, class action comes to mind) about the shady/cybersquatting being done with these people's own sites they've paid for.

5) File a complaint with the FTC (or whoever is in charge of it) for an illegal monopoly, and what is being done by this person, when someone tries to move their site elsewhere. Just an inquiry for it might make the "designer" smarten up!

All it takes is a type of "cease and desist" letter from a lawyer, BEFORE a domain expires.

They don't cost that much to have it properly done. A few hundred bucks, and this person might be forced to smarten up, especially if warned or threatened with a legal suit or class action suit.

Doesn't mean huge legal fees - especially if a few businesses pooled their funds together in a joint effort against the "designer".

I won a case in WIPO for a slightly similar thing (not entirely, but partially).

Trust me. It just takes someone who knows what they're doing, AND TO STAND UP to the person with proper legal assistance for it to work.

Amber

PS: Disclaimer: I'm not a lawyer, but I love law. I was asked on that WIPO case to go up against a lawyer. I won. They lost. But the lawyer was misinformed, so I don't blame him.

Lawyers won't take this lightly. This person is borderline illegal / cybersquatting / holding these domains for ransom, which IS against the ICANN policies. Shut them down.

Go after the businesses to gain their trust.

Amber Jalink, Founder http://www.dime-co.com
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