I don't like (HATE!) this (child abuse) ad

10 years ago

I remember being scared a few times, too. No - it's not okay to do that to the kid. If we can't get our message across to other adults without scaring children then we need to rethink our communication skills.

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Kay King 10 years ago

As a commercial, it's powerful.

I can't imagine so many people walking by - assume the crowd scene must have been actors. It's not natural to walk by a child in distress - and alone.

the director used five cameras and edited the footage together to seem longer.

It seems a bit mean but I doubt it did any lasting damage - and what if it saves another child from losing his mother for good?
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whateverpedia

10 years ago

The young fella was informed about what was going on before it took place and was looked after afterwards.

You're not meant to "like" the ad. It's designed to hammer home a message. It's meant to grab you by the scruff of the neck and hit you across the head with a lump of four by two.

Whether you "like" it or not is irrelevent. It got the message across, and more importantly, it got you talking about it which further enhances the message.

If you're a non-smoker and don't "like" it, then simply change the channels whenever it comes on.

If you're a smoker and don't "like" it, then the ad's mission was accomplished.

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Cali16

10 years ago

I don't know the story behind the commercial, but I would assume this is a child actor and it was all handled very professionally to create the intended impact.

Having lost my mother to emphysema a few years ago - despite the fact that she had quit smoking nearly 20 years earlier - I think it makes the intended point very well. If only she had stopped when I was that age, she might still be here today.

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Mr Bill

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Cali16

I don't know the story behind the commercial, but I would assume this is a child actor and it was all handled very professionally to create the intended impact...

I'm pretty sure a child of that age isn't an "actor" by choice and didn't "cry" by choice and didn't wipe his eyes after the scene and ask "was that ok or would you like another take?" Hi mother did it for money or some other justification. How about this, we're going to put you in a room filled with black spiders and get you all tangled up in your hair and shit just to get your reaction to horror...is that ok?"

What about kicking a dog to save other dogs because it's so effective? Somethings are not ok and hurting one human (let alone a poor little child) just to stop another human's bad habits because it'll save the health department so money down the track is probably one of the weakest excuses anyone could ever use.

Hey, let's throw a little kid in the pool and watch him nearly drown so we can encourage people to buy pool fencing - that's a good idea. No, I disagree, they can use whatever gory effects they like to make their point as long as they're special effects but they should not have made a little boy cry for real - that's just cruel and in my opinion could never ever be justified.

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Mr Bill

10 years ago

Originally Posted by whateverpedia

The young fella was informed about what was going on before it took place and was looked after afterwards.

You're not meant to "like" the ad. It's designed to hammer home a message. It's meant to grab you by the scruff of the neck and hit you across the head with a lump of four by two.

Whether you "like" it or not is irrelevent. It go the message across, and more importantly, it got you talking about it which further enhances the message.

If you're a non-smoker and don't "like" it, then simply change the channels whenever it comes on.

If you're a smoker and don't "like" it, then the ad's mission was accomplished.

Perhaps (obviously) I was being too gentle. I ******* hate that ad! And yes, of course I can turn away but that's not the point. I ******* hate the ad because they thought it was ok to make a little boy cry so they could make a point.

It's not ok and changing the channel (or using adult justifications) is not a "solution" to my ******* hating it. Changing the channel doesn't "unhurt" the little boy, neither does he care if some dumb adult smoker was "helped" by his emotional pain at some point later in the future. He was clearly terrified and lasting pain or not that's inexcusable.

Sorry but I think all the adults who were involved need to be slapped down to the ground and kicked around a little so they can get MY point and I can come up with all sorts of awesome justifications for doing that too...doesn't make it right.

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whateverpedia 10 years ago

There are very strict laws on using children in advertising in Australia.

Originally Posted by whateverpedia

The young fella was informed about what was going on before it took place and was looked after afterwards.

There would've been all sorts of legal and medical people including psychologists overseeing the campaign.

Originally Posted by Cali16

I don't know the story behind the commercial, but I would assume this is a child actor and it was all handled very professionally to create the intended impact.

Despite the ad, and the campaign behind it, being over 5 years old, there have never been any complaints about it.

Originally Posted by Mr Bill

Perhaps (obviously) I was being too gentle. I ******* hate that ad!

And yet here you are, discussing it.
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ForumGuru

Banned 10 years ago

The ad was a bit controversial when it was released back in the day...

Below is Today's Matt Lauer talking to Fiona Sharkie, the executive director of the Quit Victoria anti-smoking group about the ad.

Scared Little Boy (Anti-Smoking ad) from the...

Child protective services was on the "set" during the single take production.

Australian Anti-smoking commercial draws howls as boy sobs for mommy - NY Daily News

http://gothamist.com/2009/04/05/late...erves_view.php

Cheers

-don

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Mr Bill

10 years ago

Originally Posted by ForumGuru

The ad was a bit controversial when it was released back in the day...

This ad still plays at the moment. I saw it last night which is what prompted me to post this discussion.

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ForumGuru

Banned 10 years ago

Originally Posted by Mr Bill

This ad still plays at the moment. I saw it last night which is what prompted me to post this discussion.

I don't doubt it and as a former smoker with a child I think it's rather effective.

Cheers

-don

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Kay King

10 years ago

The moment someone didn't agree the ad was terrible - you changed the title of this thread to add "hate" and "child abuse".

Let's blow it way out of proportion - right? Child was not abused - a few seconds of uncertainty will not scar him for life - but residuals from the commercial will help pay for college.

Haunt him for years - separation anxiety? The kid was scared for a few seconds and if that's the worst that happens to him as a child, he'll be one lucky fellow.

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Mr Bill

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

The moment someone didn't agree the ad was terrible - you changed the title of this thread to add "hate" and "child abuse".

Let's blow it way out of proportion - right? Child was not abused - a few seconds of uncertainty will not scar him for life - but residuals from the commercial will help pay for college.

Haunt him for years - separation anxiety? The kid was scared for a few seconds and if that's the worst that happens to him as a child, he'll be one lucky fellow.

Kay, I changed the title because "don't like" obviously wasn't strong enough a statement. I didn't change it "just because" someone disagreed with me and I think it is abuse because I've been through it and for what he's about to cop it'll feel like abuse by any definition. I didn't even cry in my ad. All I did was wear a dumb costume and I copped it bad. I knew there'd be someone in here who would disagree with me. That's something that's just a given down here.

I'm not saying the kid will be a mental basket case because of it but he'll get teased about it at school (being able to brand him as a cry baby will be plenty of ammunition for the kids) and as he's growing up that will be bad enough and I know exactly how that feels. Sure he was scared for a few moments but like I said, that's not the only thing he's going to suffer from - I can guarantee you that. I think we all know how brutal kids can be and they will latch onto this for sure. But aside from that - losing your mum and thinking you've been left enough to make you cry is a bad thing to do. They did a bad thing.

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Kay King 10 years ago

He's what - three? He's not in school - by the time he's in school no one will know that's him. Or by the time he's in school he may be in movies and have a following.

I think you had a bad experience and you are projecting it here. I truly do.
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sbucciarel

Banned 10 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

The moment someone didn't agree the ad was terrible - you changed the title of this thread to add "hate" and "child abuse".

Let's blow it way out of proportion - right? Child was not abused - a few seconds of uncertainty will not scar him for life - but residuals from the commercial will help pay for college.

Haunt him for years - separation anxiety? The kid was scared for a few seconds and if that's the worst that happens to him as a child, he'll be one lucky fellow.

Yeah, it's ridiculously blown out of proportion and I can't watch the video due to bandwidth, but I assume it's just another "smoking kills people" video, which has proven not to work ...ever. Fact is, smokers know what smoking kills people and they still smoke. They are addicted to nicotine and unless they address the addiction, they're not going to quit.

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Mr Bill

10 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

Yeah, it's ridiculously blown out of proportion and I can't watch the video due to bandwidth, but I assume it's just another "smoking kills people" video, which has proven not to work ...ever. Fact is, smokers know what smoking kills people and they still smoke. They are addicted to nicotine and unless they address the addiction, they're not going to quit.

With resepect Suzanne without having seen the ad you're in no position to comment on how "ridiculously" out of proportion my disgust is and no, it's not just a typical quit smoking ad.

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sbucciarel

Banned 10 years ago

Originally Posted by Mr Bill

With resepect Suzanne without having seen the ad you're in no position to comment on how "ridiculously" out of proportion my disgust is and no, it's not just a typical quit smoking ad.

With respect Bill, it doesn't take a rocket science to know exactly what the video is about. I can read and it has been described thoroughly in this thread. I don't care that they spent money on marketing that will never work. The only people who will be affected by that kind of commercial are people who don't smoke. People who do smoke already know that they could die from the habit.

It's your trivializing the word child abuse that bothers me. Some allegedly well taken care of, well fed, kid crying on a video for a brief spell before mommy comes back does not constitute anything close to child abuse and if that brief moment in his life scarred him for life and humans were really that ridiculously fragile, mankind would have ceased to exist a long time ago. Save your child abuse concerns for real child abuse.

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Mr Bill

10 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

With respect Bill, it doesn't take a rocket science to know exactly what the video is about. I can read and it has been described thoroughly in this thread. I don't care that they spent money on marketing that will never work. The only people who will be affected by that kind of commercial are people who don't smoke. People who do smoke already know that they could die from the habit.

It's your trivializing the word child abuse that bothers me. Some allegedly well taken care of, well fed, kid crying on a video for a brief spell before mommy comes back does not constitute anything close to child abuse and if that brief moment in his life scarred him for life and humans were really that ridiculously fragile, mankind would have ceased to exist a long time ago. Save your child abuse concerns for real child abuse.

You're absolutely right Suzanne, we should really only concern ourselves with the most extreme, vile and abhorrent forms of child abuse. Anything other than that should be just ignored because it doesn't matter. If all you read in this thread was my trivialising child abuse then you need to either read it again, watch the video or...

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sbucciarel

Banned 10 years ago

Originally Posted by Mr Bill

You're absolutely right Suzanne, we should really only concern ourselves with the most extreme, vile and abhorrent forms of child abuse. Anything other than that should be just ignored because it doesn't matter. If all you read in this thread was my trivialising child abuse then you need to either read it again, watch the video or...

Sorry, but I guess you're still not getting it. Most of us don't feel this was any kind of child abuse at all, including me. I have 4 children and 6 grandchildren (by the way, how many do you have?) and have seen my share of real separation anxiety when taking children to school or daycare for the first time and actually having to leave them for hours. Guess what ... they get over it. It's not child abuse.

But if you want people sympathetic to your cause, you could have posted this in Mind Warriors. I'm sure they all would have cried a great big ole virtual tear and done a bunch of group hugs and all that.

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Mr Bill

10 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

Sorry, but I guess you're still not getting it. Most of us don't feel this was any kind of child abuse at all, including me. I have 4 children and 6 grandchildren (by the way, how many do you have?) and have seen my share of real separation anxiety when taking children to school or daycare for the first time and actually having to leave them for hours. Guess what ... they get over it. It's not child abuse.

But if you want people sympathetic to your cause, you could have posted this in Mind Warriors. I'm sure they all would have cried a great big ole virtual tear and done a bunch of group hugs and all that.

Wow, I really expected more intelligence from you Suzanne. I don't have any children so that means I should be happy when I see kids abused. I'm glad I'm not your child - that's for freaking sure!

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Steven Wagenheim

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Mr Bill

Wow, I really expected more intelligence from you Suzanne. I don't have any children so that means I should be happy when I see kids abused. I'm glad I'm not your child - that's for freaking sure!

Okay, after this I REALLY have to get to work.

Suzanne makes an excellent point.

That first day of school, when we drop our kids off for the first time and leave them there for a whole day, how many of them scream "Mommy don't leave me!" Tons.

So is that child abuse? Because if it is, we have to stop sending our kids to school.

And if it's not, it's certainly a lot worse than leaving a kid alone for 3 seconds.

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Mr Bill

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

...So is that child abuse? Because if it is, we have to stop sending our kids to school.

No it's not and Suzanne has not made any excellent points that I can see.

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Alast 10 years ago

Originally Posted by Mr Bill

No it's not and Suzanne has not made any excellent points that I can see.

I think it's child abuse, because I was one of those children who absolutely hated the torturous first day of school.
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Steven Wagenheim 10 years ago

Originally Posted by Mr Bill

No it's not and Suzanne has not made any excellent points that I can see.

And this is where I stop taking anything you say seriously.

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- Richard Van 10 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim
  
  And this is where I stop taking anything you say seriously.
  
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Kay King

10 years ago

The degree of abuse is irrelevant.

No, it isn't. Not at all. To define something you don't like as "abuse" is wrong. It trivializes the real abuse many children suffer.

Is it child abuse when you leave a screaming toddler with a baby sitter? Of course not - it's a lesson for the child that though his parent might leave him... mom or dad will come back.

Have you read "A Boy Named Dave"? Read that and say the degree is irrelevant! I read that years ago and will never forget it.

I don't have any children so that means I should be happy when I see kids abused.

Ok - that explains a lot. There is no one more expert on child raising - than someone who doesn't have the little critters. If you've never lived with a toddler 24 hr a day, 7 days a week - you probably think most things that happened to them is child abuse. You've not lived with a kid who has tears flowing one moment and a big grin 2 seconds later.

If you want to raise a child into an adult who is incapable of making decisions, incapable of surviving on his own, incapable of creating a rich and varied life for himself....then raise your kid without saying "no" - without a moment of fear, unfairness, or uncertainty. When the real world hits him - he'll fall apart because he never learned how to manage his emotions - how to control his fear ...how to face adversity and keep going.

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Mr Bill

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

Is it child abuse when you leave a screaming toddler with a baby sitter?

No, but do it on purpose for filming and use it for marketing and it's abusive - yes. Of course it is.

Originally Posted by Kay King

It trivializes the real abuse many children suffer.

I've never trivialised abuse and to put those words into my mouth is a low and frankly surprising act. Setting a limit at which abuse is considered abuse makes no sense. If something is abusive it's abusive.

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Steven Wagenheim

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Mr Bill

No, but do it on purpose for filming and use it for marketing and it's abusive - yes. Of course it is.

Does the child know the difference? Of course not. So how does that even matter?

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Kay King

10 years ago

Hmmm -

It's OK to upset a child so a parent can have a night out....but not to add to the kid's college fund or pay for his private school?

Lighten up

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Mr Bill

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

Does the child know the difference? Of course not. So how does that even matter?

Really? Come on man.

Originally Posted by Kay King

Hmmm -

It's OK to upset a child so a parent can have a night out....but not to add to the kid's college fund or pay for his private school?

Lighten up

Yeah, I'm going to lighten up when kids get abused - why would you even suggest that? Makes no sense at all. So commercialising a child's distress makes it ok? Wow! Seriously?! I can not believe you just said that Kay. Wow.

Originally Posted by Kay King

...Ok - that explains a lot. There is no one more expert on child raising - than someone who doesn't have the little critters...

That's the height of arrogance Kay. What, you think the only person who can see something wrong being done to a child is someone who has had children? That's an insane point of view.

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Steven Wagenheim

10 years ago

So the problem you have is not with the actual pain inflicted on the child, regardless of the degree, but the motive behind the pain.

Leaving a kid with a babysitter for 8 hours while you're working and him crying his eyes out is okay because there is no ulterior financial or otherwise gain not directly related to the child while making a commercial that has a child crying for 3 seconds that could potentially stop millions from smoking is not okay because it does nothing for the child himself?

Correct?

Well, what if the child's mother is a smoker? Or somebody else in that child's family. And she or they see the commercial or, in her case, realize what she's doing may potentially leave her child without a parent, and because of that stop smoking, or get her husband, the child's father, to stop smoking?

Would it then be okay? After all, it is now for the benefit of the child if somebody in that child's family stops smoking.

Before you answer no, please understand then that your answer will then nullify and invalidate the excuse that leaving the child alone with a sitter for a day is okay because it's for the child's own good because mommy has to work.

Mommy can work from home. There are telecommuting jobs. She doesn't have to leave the house. If she really cares what's best for the child, she'll stay home.

I'm sorry but I have a serious problem with people who validate or invalidate the treatment of a child based on their own narrow terms.

Parents who make their children cry are either abusing them or not abusing them. You can't qualify that based on a motive that, as I pointed out, can easily be justified as to actually be helpful to the child as in getting that child's mother or father to quit smoking.

You cannot have it both ways.

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Mr Bill

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

So the problem you have is not with the actual pain inflicted on the child, regardless of the degree, but the motive behind the pain.

What?! Stop being ridiculous. I thought you were done with this thread?

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

Leaving a kid with a babysitter for 8 hours while you're working and him crying his eyes out is okay because there is no ulterior financial or otherwise gain not directly related to the child while making a commercial that has a child crying for 3 seconds that could potentially stop millions from smoking is not okay because it does nothing for the child himself?

Correct?

No, I never said that.

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

Well, what if the child's mother is a smoker? Or somebody else in that child's family. And she or they see the commercial or, in her case, realize what she's doing may potentially leave her child without a parent, and because of that stop smoking, or get her husband, the child's father, to stop smoking?

Would it then be okay? After all, it is now for the benefit of the child if somebody in that child's family stops smoking.

Before you answer no, please understand then that your answer will then nullify and invalidate the excuse that leaving the child alone with a sitter for a day is okay because it's for the child's own good because mommy has to work.

Mommy can work from home. There are telecommuting jobs. She doesn't have to leave the house. If she really cares what's best for the child, she'll stay home.

I'm sorry but I have a serious problem with people who validate or invalidate the treatment of a child based on their own narrow terms.

Parents who make their children cry are either abusing them or not abusing them. You can't qualify that based on a motive that, as I pointed out, can easily be justified as to actually be helpful to the child as in getting that child's mother or father to quit smoking.

You cannot have it both ways.

I'm not trying to have anything both ways Steven. Your argument is convoluted, inaccurate and poorly thought out. It makes no sense and you're comparisons and points are invalid. Your condoning what these morons did and that makes me sick.

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sbucciarel

Banned 10 years ago

Originally Posted by Mr Bill

Really? Come on man.

Yeah, I'm going to lighten up when kids get abused - why would you even suggest that? Makes no sense at all. So commercialising a child's distress makes it ok? Wow! Seriously?! I can not believe you just said that Kay. Wow.

You missed the sequel to the video ...the part where Mom gets a big check and they go out and celebrate with ice cream and candy and then Mom puts some away for this college fund ... years later, after graduating from college and landing a lucrative position, he thanks his Mom for putting him in that commercial, saying ... it changed my life.

Where's your outrage for the filming of kids from other countries allegedly starving to death. Does the camera crew buy them a meal before filming or does it suit their purposes better if they actually are really, really hungry? Do they buy them groceries for the family afterwards? Why don't they send the ones who look obviously malnourished to a hospital immediately? Why don't they swipe the flys off of them? Why don't they knock that pan of contaminated water out of their hands and give them clean water?

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Mr Bill

10 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

You missed the sequel to the video ...the part where Mom gets a big check and they go out and celebrate with ice cream and candy and then Mom puts some away for this college fund ... years later, after graduating from college and landing a lucrative position, he thanks his Mom for putting him in that commercial, saying ... it changed my life.

Where's your outrage for the filming of kids from other countries allegedly starving to death. Does the camera crew buy them a meal before filming or does it suit their purposes better if they actually are really, really hungry? Do they buy them groceries for the family afterwards? Why don't they send the ones who look obviously malnourished to a hospital immediately? Why don't they swipe the flys off of them? Why don't they knock that pan of contaminated water out of their hands and give them clean water?

So, I'm only allowed to have one outrage? How insane is that? You're saying that as long as they got paid for distressing and humiliating the child it's ok and you call yourself a good mother? Righty 'o...whatever. That's even more disgusting.

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sbucciarel

Banned 10 years ago

Originally Posted by Mr Bill

So, I'm only allowed to have one outrage? How insane is that? You're saying that as long as they got paid for distressing and humiliating the child it's ok and you call yourself a good mother? Righty 'o...whatever. That's even more disgusting.

No, you're allowed as many petty outrages as you want to have. I already suggested the forum where that shit would fly and it's not OT.

Actually, Bill ... I think it's you who are disgusting by attempting to trivialize child abuse. I don't need your seal of approval for my motherhood skills. I have my children's.

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Mr Bill

10 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

No, you're allowed as many petty outrages as you want to have. I already suggested the forum where that shit would fly and it's not OT.

Actually, Bill ... I think it's you who are disgusting by attempting to trivialize child abuse. I don't need your seal of approval for my motherhood skills. I have my children's.

Lol, ok Sue now you've lost the plot. I'm disgusting for disapproving of an ad that exploits a child's distress. Right. drinky drinky? I think you've got that backwards. I'm the one standing up for kids! How on mother earth is that trivialising abuse?! lol omg. You might want to read what I've been writing in this thread before you jump in with your opinions and get everything wrong.

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Steven Wagenheim

10 years ago

I've reported this thread for deletion. When you essentially call people here no better than child abusers because they're not as outraged by this video as you are, that's where you've crossed the line.

I am SOOOO glad I don't know you in real life and I pray to God my daughter never meets anybody like you.

Please delete this train wreck.

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Mr Bill

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

I've reported this thread for deletion. When you essentially call people here no better than child abusers because they're not as outraged by this video as you are, that's where you've crossed the line.

I am SOOOO glad I don't know you in real life and I pray to God my daughter never meets anybody like you.

Please delete this train wreck.

Aaaah, so now you agree with me that they are abusers? So we're on the same side now? Excellent, I'm glad you can see things clearly now. So you don't want your daughter to be associated with anyone who defends a child from exploitation? What sort of a father is that? Would you prefer she goes out with someone who likes it and is amused and dismissive when children are exploited?

You pray to a god? lol there's your problem right there.

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Kay King 10 years ago

keep destroying your reputations

I've raised two sons who are happy, healthy, successful. They are good husbands and great fathers.

My reputation - as a Mother - is pretty damned good.

My point was if you are going to claim a crime (child abuse) has been committed - that infers someone is guilty of committing that crime.

It made sense to say "I don't like this ad" - makes no sense to go over the top and claim child abuse and put down anyone who disagrees with you.
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sbucciarel

Banned 10 years ago

Originally Posted by Mr Bill

Lol, ok Sue now you've lost the plot. I'm disgusting for disapproving of an ad that exploits a child's distress. Right. drinky drinky? I think you've got that backwards. I'm the one standing up for kids! How on mother earth is that trivialising abuse?! lol omg. You might want to read what I've been writing in this thread before you jump in with your opinions and get everything wrong.

Sure Bill ... now I'm a drunk because I disagree with your ridiculous definition of child abuse. Fact is, I don't drink at all, nor use any drug stronger than aspirin, not that it's any of your business. You really are an abusive fellow, aren't you?

You are not standing up for kids. You're on some kind of misguided, weird soapbox to point out something that you, and you alone consider child abuse. It's a momentary moment of discomfort in what is probably an otherwise privileged life, or at least a fine and dandy life.

Anyone who actually has children know that children cry at the drop of a hat, over and over and over again and when that happens in an otherwise normal household, it is not child abuse.

Your definition of child abuse would criminalize most households in the US. I do actually care about real child abuse and animal abuse as well.

Do you know that PeTA films many videos of abused animals to put thousands and thousands of dollars in their coffers? Do you also know that they don't operate a single shelter and that they kill the animals that well meaning folk unknowingly surrender to them?

You are equating something so incredibly trivial with a criminal offense ... that of child abuse. I can only assume that you, rather than I, had a highly potent drink of something for breakfast.

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Mr Bill 10 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

...You are not standing up for kids...

I'm not? How can you say that? Perhaps your should read what this thread is about before you go off half cocked and thanks but I'm totally straight. I'm the one defending this kid, you're the ones defending the marketers. I know which side I'm on. I'm on the side of the kid. Clearly you think it's ok and for that you'll be judged. If my standing up for a kid's right to not be exploited is being abusive then you have things backwards and seem to be very confused.
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Richard Van

10 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

But if you want people sympathetic to your cause, you could have posted this in Mind Warriors. I'm sure they all would have cried a great big ole virtual tear and done a bunch of group hugs and all that.

Originally Posted by Mr Bill

Wow, I really expected more intelligence from you Suzanne. I don't have any children so that means I should be happy when I see kids abused. I'm glad I'm not your child - that's for freaking sure!

Come on people this has gone quite well. I was even starting to hope Riffle may be along soon to say...

"Bejesus, this might just end well!..."

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sbucciarel

Banned 10 years ago

Originally Posted by Mr Bill

Wow, I really expected more intelligence from you Suzanne. I don't have any children so that means I should be happy when I see kids abused. I'm glad I'm not your child - that's for freaking sure!

Actually, you should be unhappy and angry when children are really abused, but yeah, Bill... I'm glad you're not my child either. I have enough and they are all strong, intelligent, self-reliant individuals who were never abused and don't abuse their children and who know what real child abuse is.

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seasoned

10 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

Sorry, but I guess you're still not getting it. Most of us don't feel this was any kind of child abuse at all, including me. I have 4 children and 6 grandchildren (by the way, how many do you have?) and have seen my share of real separation anxiety when taking children to school or daycare for the first time and actually having to leave them for hours. Guess what ... they get over it. It's not child abuse.

But if you want people sympathetic to your cause, you could have posted this in Mind Warriors. I'm sure they all would have cried a great big ole virtual tear and done a bunch of group hugs and all that.

HEY YEAH! Have ****YOU**** seen people at a school stay LATE just so that they could see YOU taken home? I HAVE! SEVERAL TIMES! I went to a private school at the time, and all the kids went into a room and played games, etc... waiting for their parents or guardians to pick them up. When only a couple people were left, and it was late, they would go to the principal's office, and wait there. That office then stayed open, and several people stayed there. MANY other times, I was one of the FEW to stay so late.

Steve

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Mr Bill 10 years ago

Originally Posted by ForumGuru

I don't doubt it and as a former smoker with a child I think it's rather effective.

Cheers

-don

I have no doubt it might have some effect but at what cost? To do this to him privately so he can learn the lesson to stay close to mum is one thing but to splash him all over the world crying - I'd be mortified as I got older and I'm sure he will be as well. What's he going to say..."don't worry, I was only acting?" the kid would have almost no concept (if any at all) of what acting is about and certainly wouldn't have agreed to "we're going to make you really scared, then film it then put it on everyone's TV so they can see you crying as well - are you ok with that? Sign here" - I doubt it.
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Mr Bill

10 years ago

Originally Posted by whateverpedia

There are very strict laws on using children in advertising in Australia.

There would've been all sorts of legal and medical people including psychologists overseeing the campaign.

Despite the ad, and the campaign behind it, being over 5 years old, there have never been any complaints about it.

And yet here you are, discussing it.

Actually there have been HEAPS of complaints about it. Not sure what point your making about my discussing it. This forum is filled with us discussing things we hate. He doesn't look over 5 years old to me but even if he was that would still be irrelevant as would having the studio filled with psychologists. What if they decided to burn his little hands on a fire to "drive home" the message about home safety - would having a doctor there to bandage him make it ok? No. I think it's perverse.

I also have some experience in this field because I was forced to participate in an ad when I was about 7. They made me wear some stupid costume and the kids at school teased me relentlessly to the point that I can remember little else about my years at primary school. It's NOT ok to do this to any kid. I can almost guarantee you he'll be branded a cry baby when he gets to school if the kids ever find out this was him. That kid is scarred and will probably suffer for years to come. I hope it was worth it for the adults who are scum.

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ForumGuru Banned 10 years ago

Originally Posted by Mr Bill

...are you ok with that?

Originally Posted by Mr Bill

He doesn't look over 5 years old to me...

Alexander was 3 1/2 years old when the spot was shot. Knowing what kind of impact the ad could have, and knowing what I knew about my son at the time, I may have allowed him to do the spot if he and I were "in the business".

That said, I realize some people will disagree on this subject...

Cheers

-don
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seasoned

10 years ago

I think it is a good ad. People don't seem to react to this sort of thing unless a kid is involved, or THEIR life is threatened! This attacks BOTH fronts. Don't under estimate the kid. He may be a GREAT actor.

HEY, this reminds me of a child actress that got the job because she DIDN'T cry when an executive lifted her up! Where is she? OK OK, it is AGAINST the law in the US to have VERY young kids for films unless the WHOLE film cycle is disturbed, so they often want identical twins. So the question is where are THEY?

Well, look them up,the olsen twins: Google Image Result for http://images2.fanpop.com/images/photos/6300000/Olsen-mary-kate-and-ashley-olsen-6342418-1793-1843.jpg

They were very young at the time. IMAGINE though, MOST kids CRIED!

Steve

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garyv

10 years ago

I don't like they way they did it either. There's a bazillion kids on the planet, surely they could've found one that can cry on cue. I have a couple in my house that are good at it.

However - this is far from the worst thing this kid will ever experience I'm sure. And if we were to always protect kids from people making them cry, then there'd be no shots, dentists, circumcisions, ear-rings, etc.

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Mr Bill

10 years ago

Originally Posted by garyv

...However - this is far from the worst thing this kid will ever experience I'm sure. And if we were to always protect kids from people making them cry, then there'd be no shots, dentists, circumcisions, ear-rings, etc.

Be that as it may, it will haunt him for years (the kids at his school will make sure of that) and even so, does he need more bad things to add to other bad things he'll experience in his life? I "like" that you don't like the ad either but jeezaloo, kids have got enough to worry about without us adding extra unnecessary things to their list.

He's obviously suffering separation anxiety (not matter how brief) and even though there were people there to comfort him post-trauma he will be teased for it for years to come - kids don't need those memories because bad memories go on to haunt us through out their lives.

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Dennis Gaskill

10 years ago

That's hardly child abuse. That's almost an insult to children who really are abused. A child that age will cry about something nearly every day, and often more than once a day. This was a few seconds of time. A few seconds. Hardly the traumatizing event you're making it out to be.

And, it's an impactful commercial. I wouldn't be at all surprised to learn that this ad inspired many, many parents to quit smoking.

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Mr Bill

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

He's what - three? He's not in school - by the time he's in school no one will know that's him. Or by the time he's in school he may be in movies and have a following.

Let's hope not - but I doubt it. As soon as even one kid finds out - he'll cop it for sure.

Originally Posted by Kay King

I think you had a bad experience and you are projecting it here. I truly do.

I'm sharing what actually happened to me in real life. It hurt me and I still remember hating the ramifications as a kid.

Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill

That's hardly child abuse. That's almost an insult to children who really are abused. A child that age will cry about something nearly every day, and often more than once a day. This was a few seconds of time. A few seconds. Hardly the traumatizing event you're making it out to be.

And, it's an impactful commercial. I wouldn't be at all surprised to learn that this ad inspired many, many parents quit smoking.

The degree of abuse is irrelevant. They made him hurt on purpose - that's abuse.

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Dennis Gaskill

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Mr Bill

The degree of abuse is irrelevant. They made him hurt on purpose - that's abuse.

By that logic a lot of things could be called abuse that most don't think of as abuse. And they didn't "hurt" him, they let him become frightened. That's not the same thing.

Give what you said though...

I'm sharing what actually happened to me in real life. It hurt me and I still remember hating the ramifications as a kid.

...I don't expect you to agree. I think you're overreacting, but that's your prerogative.

I'm guessing whatever you went through probably lasted longer than a few seconds, but you're projecting all your feelings on this child, who I doubt was as affected by his few seconds alone as you were with your ordeal.

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Mr Bill

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill

By that logic a lot of things could be called abuse that most don't think of as abuse. And they didn't "hurt" him, they let him become frightened. That's not the same thing.

Being frightened isn't harmless.

Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill

Give what you said though...

...I don't expect you to agree. I think you're overreacting, but that's your prerogative.

I'm not over reacting, I hated what they did to him because I know from experience the harm these things can do and how cruel kids can be. He's going to cop it twice - once during the filming and then again at school. It's my reaction based on experience - I'm not guessing - I know it. The very first time I saw it I swore loudly at the TV and have hated it ever since.

Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill

I'm guessing whatever you went through probably lasted longer than a few seconds, but your projecting all your feelings on this child, who I doubt was as affected by his few seconds alone as you were with your ordeal.

I didn't go through any trauma at all during the filming of my ad. I just copped years and years of ridicule and teasing after it was aired - from the very next day and for years after. I was branded. So in fact he's got it worse than me. Not only did they make him cry on purpose (unforgivable for the purposes it was done for) but he'll cop it in the school yard and being teased and ridiculed as a kid can have far reaching effects. I grew up and was finally able to defend myself but I had to get violent to do it. How was that a good thing? Aren't our jails filled with grown up kids who were abused and suffered they were young?

I'm just saying this was needless, cruel (even if only a "little bit" cruel) and totally unjustified and I can almost guarantee (of course I hope I'm wrong) that he'll be paying for it for a long time and during the wrong time - when he's a kid and doesn't have the perspective of an adult. Giving him cash for University may not make it all go away. I wasn't paid for my ad and even if I was would I have given it all back just to have not been teased daily as a kid when I needed friends the most? I can guaran-bloody-te you I would!

His perceptions of the world and faith that his mother will never leave him in danger have been altered forever and perhaps irreversibly. He now knows for sure that his mother will leave him and even though that might have been something that could have occurred in real life it's unforgivable to force that experience onto him and it was all for nothing...at least not as far as he'll be concerned but at least it made a few smokers think about giving up and they'll throw him some cash so it's all worth it - right? Wrong. It's not ok and will never be ok to do that to a child and especially not one that young.

Poor kid, I feel bad for him then and for what he's about to cop in years to come, how can that be a bad thing? The kids aren't going to pat him on the back and say "great acting dude!". Being labeled a cry baby is pretty bad when you're a kid and the only thing you want is to have friends.

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Dennis Gaskill

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Mr Bill

It's my reaction based on experience - I'm not guessing - I know it.

Yes, YOUR reaction, based on YOUR experience . . . not his. Everyone handles things differently. You're projecting your experiences onto him. He may handle it, if there is an "it" at all, very differently from the way you did.

You don't know what his experience will be. It won't be the same as yours. It could be worse, but it could also be a lot better. You don't know, you're projecting your experiences and your feelings and your reactions onto someone you don't even know.

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Mr Bill

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill

Yes, YOUR reaction, based on YOUR experience . . . not his. Everyone handles things differently. You're projecting your experiences onto him. He may handle it, if there is an "it" at all, very differently from the way you did.

You don't know what his experience will be. It won't be the same as yours. It could be worse, but it could also be a lot better. You don't know, you're projecting your experiences and your feelings and your reactions.

Isn't that how we all make decisions? Based on our own real experiences? Is it responsible for them to gamble that he probably won't mind being teased or that he probably won't be teased? Obviously not. It's totally irresponsible for them to make that call just because they want to make a spectacular advert. How can anyone justify them taking a gamble on this emotional abuse?

You can call it projecting but it doesn't diminish the fact that from my personal (and observational) life experience there's a very strong likelihood that when kids see him crying on TV they will call him a cry baby and that's one of the worst things to be teased about. That's not very (or at all) far fetched and I think it's highly likely so I'm calling abuse.

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Alast

10 years ago

I disagree that this is child abuse, Bill. Think of it like this:

That boy endured a few seconds of fear, and was probably reunited with his mum shortly after. However, this is reality for some children. If this advertisement even happens to convince one parent to quit smoking, then I think it is completely justified. Reality is, not everyone has a happy ending like this child did.

I also reacted similarly to the child when I was young, but it's far from 'traumatizing'.

Just to add: I also had separation anxiety as a child; this is not something that I feel traumatized about.

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Mr Bill

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Alast

I disagree that this is child abuse, Bill. Think of it like this:

That boy endured a few seconds of fear, and was probably reunited with his mum shortly after. However, this is reality for some children. If this advertisement even happens to convince one parent to quit smoking, then I think it is completely justified. Reality is, not everyone has a happy ending like this child did.

I also reacted similarly to the child when I was young, but it's far from 'traumatizing'.

If it had happened in real life I might agree with you it that it wasn't abuse but they did it on purpose. Did they give him a lolly and film that? No. They made him cry and filmed that. I consider that abuse. It may not be bashing him half to death but still, they hurt him on purpose for their own purposes and that wasn't to teach him a lesson. It was to use that footage for something completely unrelated to his pain. That's abusive by any definition and no one considered for a second what abuse he'll cop as he's growing up in the schoolyard.

And I'm sure he'll be scared of losing his mum again; now that he knows how it feels he'll be terrified of it happening again. Don't any of you remember the fear of the losing your parents, being lost or scared? How can it not be abuse? It may not be the worst form of abuse but it's abuse. Is "a little bit" of abuse ok now? What about just "a little bit of abuse" for unrelated adult purposes? Is that ok? No, it's not. Was it to teach him some sort of lesson for his own good? No.

Originally Posted by Alast

...Just to add: I also had separation anxiety as a child; this is not something that I feel traumatized about.

Maybe not now but how did it feel when you were a kid?

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Alast

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Mr Bill

If it had happened in real life I might agree with you it that it wasn't abuse but they did it on purpose. Did they give him a lolly and film that? No. They made him cry and filmed that.

What would filming him eating a lolly achieve? There is a very strong, and purposeful meaning behind this advertisement.

I consider that abuse.

The issue is, it doesn't really matter what you think. There would have been a lot of preparation, I would presume, behind this advertisement, to ensure the child was in no way harmed. Although I respect what you consider to be abuse, I do not agree with it. I think manipulation would be a far better word to use.

It may not be bashing him half to death but still, they hurt him on purpose for their own purposes and that wasn't to teach him a lesson. It was to use that footage for something completely unrelated to his pain.

They didn't hurt him, they made him scared for a few seconds. Given there would have been a lot of preparation behind this advertisement, I can almost assure you it won't negatively impact him in the future.

That's abusive by any definition and no one considered for a second what abuse he'll cop as he's growing up in the schoolyard.

From my personal experiences as someone who has endured separation anxiety; the chances are, he'll cry at school over different things. In fact, what kid that young doesn't cry?

I can't imagine this will impact his later life whatsoever, it's asinine to imagine that a video of him crying at such a young age will cause further bullying. Maybe if he was a teenager, it would be a different story.

And I'm sure he'll be scared of losing his mum again; now that he knows how it feels he'll be terrified of it happening again.

Is that necessarily a bad fear to even have? Everyone should be scared of losing their mum (or dad), particularly at such a young age. Okay... maybe they shouldn't consciously be scared, but it could also be good for the child (from a rather different perspective). If what you're saying is right, at least the child will have a hard time wondering off, which could result in far worse things from happening, right? I mean, kidnapping, for example.

Don't any of you remember the fear of the losing your parents, being lost or scared? How can it not be abuse?

Yes - but it didn't cause any harm beyond the few minutes I lost them. I was immediately fine once reunited - but that is just my experience. I think it's clear you have had different experiences.

It may not be the worst form of abuse but it's abuse. Is "a little bit" of abuse ok now? What about just "a little bit of abuse" for unrelated adult purposes? Is that ok? No, it's not. Was it to teach him some sort of lesson for his own good? No.

I wouldn't call it abuse at all. I find it hard to believe it will have any negative ramifications on his future. I dare say nobody at his school will notice him from the advertisement.

If they did it for a bit of fun, then I would agree with you. But there is a very strong, and effective purpose behind the advertisement, and I think justifies 3 seconds of fear endured by the child.

Maybe not now but how did it feel when you were a kid?

I don't think crying about losing my parents stemmed from any separation anxiety of mine. I think it was something that most children face out of fear. I only vaguely remember one or two incidents which have not impacted my life, ever.

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Mr Bill

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Alast

...The issue is, it doesn't really matter what you think.

They didn't hurt him.

It matters to me (that's why I started this discussion) and yes they did hurt him so it clearly mattered to him to. If that was acting, the kid deserves an Oscar. It wasn't acting, he was crying because he was hurting. I don't care how long it lasted and to defend their actions is misguided and uncaring.

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Alast

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Mr Bill

It matters to me (that's why I started this discussion) and yes they did hurt him so it clearly mattered to him to. If that was acting, the kid deserves an Oscar. It wasn't acting, he was crying because he was hurting. I don't care how long it lasted and to defend their actions is misguided and uncaring.

Kids get hurt all the time, mentally and physically. We can't wrap them up in bubble wrap all the time. It could have been prevented (obviously), but the fact is, it was given the thumbs up by people who knew it wasn't going to be detrimental to the health of the child, and were there to care for the child with the repercussions. It was safe, and the child was in no real harm at all.

I bet he's forgotten all about this by now.

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Mr Bill

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Alast

Kids get hurt all the time, mentally and physically. We can't wrap them up in bubble wrap all the time. It could have been prevented (obviously), but the fact is, it was given the thumbs up by people who knew it wasn't going to be detrimental to the health of the child, and were there to care for the child with the repercussions. It was safe, and the child was in no real harm at all.

I bet he's forgotten all about this by now.

Yeah, kids get hurt all the time so one more doesn't really matter or hurt anyone else. Not sure if that will stand up in court by an abuser as a defense but as long as there are no physical scars it was probably worth the risk. He'll probably be ok. People gamble all the time with their own lives and what's one more damaged kid among all the other damaged kids? He'll probably forget it and he probably won't get bullied as a public cry baby and if he does - so what? We've all been bullied and it never did us any harm. At least some adults were saved and the ad agency got paid that's the main thing. He's only some sooky kid.

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Alast

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Mr Bill

Yeah, kids get hurt all the time so one more doesn't really matter or hurt anyone else. Not sure if that will stand up in court by an abuser as a defense but as long as there are no physical scars it was probably worth the risk. He'll probably be ok. People gamble all the time with their own lives and what's one more damaged kid among all the other damaged kids? He'll probably forget it and he probably won't get bullied as a public cry baby and if he does - so what? We've all been bullied and it never did us any harm. At least some adults were saved and the ad agency got paid that's the main thing. He's only some sooky kid.

You're blowing this way out of proportion.

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Mr Bill 10 years ago

Originally Posted by Alast

You're blowing this way out of proportion.

Of course I am. It's only some kid.
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- Alast 10 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Mr Bill
  
  Of course I am. It's only some kid.
  
  No - it's only some event that is not comparable to physical abuse. I am not in any way demeaning mental health issues at all (having suffered, and still suffer is certain aspects myself), but this was done with professional supervision, for a very good purpose. It's just unlikely that anything negative will come from this, and I say that with confidence.
  
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Richard Van 10 years ago

Bill,

I appreciate you f****** hate this ad and no matter what anyone says you will always feel that the benefit and affect of this ad is negligible in comparison to the hurt you think it will cause but if it stops two people smoking that's 2 kids that won't have to suffer like him.

Originally Posted by Mr Bill

Not sure what point your making about my discussing it.

He means you've brought this here and apart from your good self, people can see how effective it is at helping people stop smoking. That in turn may save thousands of other kids like this kid having to suffer in real life, not in an advert.

Originally Posted by Mr Bill

Be that as it may, it will haunt him for years

It might not Bill. I remember losing my Mum on several occasions on shopping trips at a young age. It was very frightening.

I grew up fine though and suffered ten times more shit than that in the intervening years that have probably affected me.

(the kids at his school will make sure of that)

They did to you but may not to him. You really can't guarantee that. At all.

Originally Posted by Mr Bill

I have no doubt it might have some effect but at what cost?

Maybe none and in the meantime thousands of other kids may not have to go through that when they get the same feeling standing at one of their parents graves during their funeral. And that really will affect them for the rest of their lives. Much more than if you lost your Mum for a few minutes.

Bill, you're naturally entitled to your own view on this and it's clear it's something that has affected you and I can understand why you feel this way. My point is we all handle things differently and this kid may be just fine. In fact in years to come they may invite him on a chat show to ask if he ever stopped to wonder how many lives he'd saved making that ad. Hell, it may kick start a film career.
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Mr Bill

10 years ago

I sincerely hope I'm wrong. I just think it's criminal to play and gamble with kids like that.

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Richard Van 10 years ago

Originally Posted by Mr Bill

I sincerely hope I'm wrong. I just think it's criminal to play and gamble with kids like that.

I can understand that too. There are other things that have been debated here that have affected me in life and I get very passionate about that too. Nothing wrong with it and I too sincerely hope you're wrong and I also hope and like to think many lives will be saved as a result of the ad.
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Mr Bill

10 years ago

You're right, mental abuse is mostly harmless.

You say it with confidence, I say it with real experience. But I'm probably wrong. And like everyone above says - it doesn't matter what you do to kids as long as there's a payoff for an adult.

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Alast 10 years ago

Originally Posted by Mr Bill

You're right, mental abuse is mostly harmless.

You're putting words into my mouth, which is a sign for me to leave.
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- Mr Bill 10 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Alast
  
  You're putting words into my mouth, which is a sign for me to leave.
  
  Not my words.
  
  Originally Posted by Alast
  
  No - it's only some event that is not comparable to physical abuse...
  
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Richard Van

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Mr Bill

You're right, mental abuse is mostly harmless.

You say it with confidence, I say it with real experience. But I'm probably wrong. And like everyone above says - it doesn't matter what you do to kids as long as there's a payoff for an adult.

Nope.

My point was this. Yes, possibly thousands of parents lives will be saved and thousands of young kids may not have to go through a far, far worse separation anxiety issue when they bury their own parents.

Lets forget that though.

This kid, who is responsible for saving all those lives, has just experienced losing his Mum briefly which incidentally has happened to just about every kid in the world at some time. Only difference is everyone else did it in real life rather than being surrounded by people to look after him.

So it's not a case of "It doesn't matter what you do to kids", otherwise these ads would be everywhere and if they were, you'd be posting these threads all the time. They did this to one child to hammer home a message. You think it's wrong, my point is this is bugger all compared to the real crap that is probably going to happen as he grows up.

If this is the worst he ever experiences, he's one lucky kid.

As I said, I can see your point of view but as I wasn't emotionally affected by the several times I experienced exactly what that kid did in real life and on that basis if it stops any number of kids his age having to attend the funeral of one of their parents then yes, I'm happy with it.

Originally Posted by Mr Bill

Until the kids at school start picking on him and then he'll want to kill them and then we'll all say that child abuse is no excuse for adult murder.

This happened to you and the kids picked on you. Fair point.

How many of them did you kill?

Originally Posted by Mr Bill

This forum is filled with us discussing things we hate.

The thing is if you come here to discuss something that you hate, you can expect people not thinking from a point of hate to discuss things with you from another angle and then you'll wind up annoyed and stressed for the whole day about something you can't change or do anything about.

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Mr Bill

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Richard Van

How many of them did you kill?

I took out about 6 of them with a bench (they ran off crying to dob) and was pulled off one who I actually wanted to kill. I was pounding the shit out of him until the teacher stepped in. I also hated my family for putting me through that for their gratification but that's a whole other side effect which I'm sure also doesn't matter to anyone but the kid it was happening to - me.

Originally Posted by Richard Van

...you'll wind up annoyed and stressed for the whole day about something you can't change or do anything about.

This is the first time I've ever complained about child abuse. I won't be doing it again - especially not to a group of marketers who accept it's ok.

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Richard Van

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Mr Bill

I took out about 6 of them with a bench (they ran off crying to dob) and was pulled off one who I actually wanted to kill. I was pounding the shit out of him until the teacher stepped in. I also hated my family for putting me through that for their gratification but that's a whole other side effect which I'm sure also doesn't matter to anyone but the kid it was happening to - me.

So you didn't kill anyone but you know this kid will. It happened to you so it must happen to everyone.

Good thinking.

This is the first time I've ever complained about child abuse. I won't be doing it again - especially not to a group of marketers who accept it's ok.

Nonsense. No one said child abuse was ok.

People are just discussing with a you a point of view that you can't even begin to fathom. You can't see past this advert and the memories you have. If it saves a million kids going through this in real life, only instead of losing their Mum under controlled conditions like that kid, they have to bury their Mums instead, is irrelevant to you.

My Father beat me and my Mother daily for the first seven years of my life. I also lost family members in that time, watched my Father commit suicide which he got me out of bed to watch and I lost my Mum far more than that kid did in real life situations.

With respect, I do not think child abuse is ok.

You have a well set in and grounded opinion on this, you know you're right. It happened to you so it'll happen to him and come hell or high water you will always be right.

Now why don't you go and try and reclaim some of the day you've lost by getting annoyed over something you can't control or change? Getting stressed over it changes nothing and for the record I'm very sorry this has stirred up memories for you and I'm sorry you had to go through what you did.

Be serious though, no one is saying child abuse is ok.

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Mr Bill

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Richard Van

So you didn't kill anyone but you know this kid will. It happened to you so it must happen to everyone.

Good thinking.

I never said it WILL but there's a chance - yes.

Originally Posted by Richard Van

Nonsense. No one said child abuse was ok.

No, they just think it's ok if you have a good marketing reason - same thing to me.

Originally Posted by Richard Van

People are just discussing with a you a point of view that you can't even begin to fathom. You can't see past this advert and the memories you have. If it saves a million kids going through this in real life, only instead of losing their Mum under controlled conditions like that kid, they have to bury their Mums instead, is irrelevant to you.

I never said it was ok for people to bury the mothers. I just think it's disgusting to hurt kids for any reason.

Originally Posted by Richard Van

With respect, I do not think child abuse is ok.

I'm glad we agree.

Originally Posted by Richard Van

You have a well set in and grounded opinion on this, you know you're right. It happened to you so it'll happen to him and come hell or high water you will always be right.

I never said it WILL. I said it happened to me and so there's a chance that it will probably happen to him and no adults have the right to prostitute their child's emotions for any reason.

Originally Posted by Richard Van

Now why don't you go and try and reclaim some of the day you've lost by getting annoyed over something you can't control or change?

Actually in the time I expressed my disgust and defended this poor child I built and sold a website and did a deal with someone to start up a new business. I have time to do both.

Originally Posted by Richard Van

Getting stressed over it changes nothing

It might. One things for sure though, if we sit back and say nothing then even abusing kids will be ok in the name of advertising.

Originally Posted by Richard Van

... and for the record I'm very sorry this has stirred up memories for and I'm sorry you had to go through what you did.

Thanks man. I'm almost over it but then again I'm only 50 - there's still time.

Originally Posted by Richard Van

Be serious though, no one is saying child abuse is ok.

I couldn't possibly be more serious and though no one said it was actually Ok to abuse kids for marketing purposes a heap of people said it was occasionally justified. That's what disgusted me the most.

My point was that some people think this sort of shit is ok when it never is and until someone goes through it they'll probably continue to think it. My only hope is that I sowed a seed of doubt that (even mental) child abuse for marketing purposes is never ok.

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Richard Van

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Mr Bill

No, they just think it's ok if you have a good marketing reason - same thing to me.

It might. One things for sure though, if we sit back and say nothing then even abusing kids will be ok in the name of advertising.

I couldn't possibly be more serious and though no one said it was actually Ok to abuse kids for marketing purposes a heap of people said it was occasionally justified. That's what disgusted me the most.

My point was that some people think this sort of shit is ok when it never is and until someone goes through it they'll probably continue to think it. My only hope is that I sowed a seed of doubt that (even mental) child abuse for marketing purposes is never ok

Mr Bill,

I haven't seen anyone and I certainly never mentioned advertising or marketing. The ad to me was to encourage other people to stop smoking because you can see how stressed the little fella got when he thought he'd lost his Mum. The ad is designed to stop kids losing their Mums permanently and not having to bury them at that age.

That has nothing to do with a marketing reason. It was an advert for quit.com.au. Australia's quit smoking site. I suspect they have a few stories to tell of kids losing parents and having to go through that. Maybe that's why they did it.

Thanks man. I'm almost over it but then again I'm only 50 - there's still time.

Good, I'm glad. I'm 38 and very grateful I have got over that and the myriad of things that I've experienced since. I'd be in prison for my Fathers murder had I not.

If you carry the past into the present you don't actually experience the present for what it is. Like I said though, I'm sorry you haven't been able to move on.

Actually in the time I expressed my disgust and defended this poor child I built and sold a website and did a deal with someone to start up a new business. I have time to do both.

Excellent, you have something positive to focus on.

Again for the record I think it's sad that the child had to go through that and I hope he was rewarded after and his parents didn't financially gain from it. I don't know what the arrange was so can't comment.

On a positive though if that kid stops one person from dying and preventing their children crying at their funeral and crying way past 50 if it was you, then I'd like to think the advert did it's job.

Read that again. I'm talking about stopping other kids going through far, far, far more emotional upheaval than that child. Nothing to do with marketing or advertising.

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Cali16

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Mr Bill

And like everyone above says - it doesn't matter what you do to kids as long as there's a payoff for an adult.

I haven't seen one person in this entire thread say anything remotely like that.

There's a HUGE difference between not seeing this particular incident as "child abuse" (including emotional abuse) and being cold, heartless, horrible human beings that think exploiting or intentionally harming children is perfectly fine if it's for a "good cause".

It sounds like this child (who, again, was well prepped) had an unexpected - as opposed to intentionally provoked - reaction when his mom walked a short distance away for a few seconds. Children have unexpected reactions to situations all the time. Ask any adult actor about working with children or animals; many will tell you it's very challenging because they're both unpredictable and don't always follow the script; and children can and do get emotional, especially if they're tired or hungry (so can adults, for that matter).

You've made it abundantly clear that there is simply no room for disagreeing with you.

I don't believe there is one person in this thread who would condone any form of child abuse. And I'm sure most of us are genuinely saddened that you had such a painful experience as a child. But perhaps it's time to let all that anger go, don't you think?

For the record, I regard children as precious and would be extremely angry and vocal if I thought for one moment a child was being intentionally harmed (physically or emotionally) for any reason. That's not what I see happening with the making of this particular ad.

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Mr Bill

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Cali16

...But perhaps it's time to let all that anger go, don't you think?

It's not really about me letting go. For the most part I'm a happy positive guy as I hope some of you will remember. It has affected me for my entire life mostly when I'm bullied or I see someone else being bullied and I only ever raise it when I see grown ups doing it again to another child.

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Steven Wagenheim

10 years ago

** NOTE TO SELF ** You're going to so regret sticking your nose into this hornets nest.

Some facts about my life before I start.

As a child, I was beat up walking home from school almost every single day. Kids made fun of me because I was cross eyed and my mother dressed like Lily Munster. I was the poster child for the abused kid growing up. It was 13 of the most horrible years anybody would ever want to go through and I don't wish it on anyone.

One day my mother dropped me off at my grandparents and left me there overnight. I cried because I missed her and wanted to go home.

By the time I got into high school and put all the grammar school crap behind me, made some friends with "older, more mature kids" all of that stuff was almost a memory. And by the time I met my wife at age 24, I didn't even remember any of it. It's like it never happened.

If those 3 seconds is the worst thing this kid ever goes through in his life, I want to get a hold of a Tardis, go back in time to when this commercial was made, take the kids place in exchange for that kind of fairly tale life.

Secondly, I am totally against smoking. I lost almost my whole family to cancer or something smoking related.

Having said that, i don't think this ad is going to do one damn bit of good.

Why?

I know smokers. My wife's friend Tony (a fellow school teacher now retired) has had heart attacks and God knows what else. He still refuses to quit. Smokers don't care if their child is going to be parentless or, for that matter, about their own mortality. Smoking is an addiction. They can't stop. My wife just lost her mother to smoking. She couldn't stop. My father in law, having lost his love of his life, still can't stop himself. Do you think he cares if his children lose him? No. All he cares about is smoking. He won't even use those ECigs. Why? Because it's not the same.

No ad of a kid crying is going to put an end to this problem.

Personally, I have reached the point where I no longer have any sympathy for anybody who smokes. They choose to put that crap in their lungs. They are the ones who have to live with the consequences, not me. If you smoke, don't damn well do it around me or I'll walk out of the room or throw you the hell out of my house.

What's my point in all this?

Simple.

You can hate this ad all you want. But in the grand scheme of things, speaking as an abused child and a second hand smoker for nearly 20 years, I can tell you that none of it means garbage. The kid will be fine and the smokers will continue to smoke.

That is the beautiful and ugly reality of all of this.

None of it matters...not the good or the bad.

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Alast

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

Having said that, i don't think this ad is going to do one damn bit of good.

Why?

I know smokers. My wife's friend Tony (a fellow school teacher now retired) has had heart attacks and God knows what else. He still refuses to quit. Smokers don't care if their child is going to be parentless or, for that matter, about their own mortality. Smoking is an addiction. They can't stop. My wife just lost her mother to smoking. She couldn't stop. My father in law, having lost his love of his life, still can't stop himself. Do you think he cares if his children lose him? No. All he cares about is smoking. He won't even use those ECigs. Why? Because it's not the same.

No ad of a kid crying is going to put an end to this problem.

I'm sure the people who have quit/are attempting to quit would disagree with this. Just because you experienced it, doesn't mean it's some universal fact.

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Steven Wagenheim

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Alast

I'm sure the people who have quit/are attempting to quit would disagree with this. Just because you experienced it, doesn't mean it's some universal fact.

The point is, people who have quit smoking didn't quit because of this commercial or any commercial for that matter. They quit because they wanted to. If you think a commercial has the power to make somebody quit smoking then you obviously have no idea how powerful an addiction smoking is.

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Alast

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

The point is, people who have quit smoking didn't quit because of this commercial or any commercial for that matter. They quit because they wanted to. If you think a commercial has the power to make somebody quit smoking then you obviously have no idea how powerful an addiction smoking is.

This advertisement could motivate someone who wants to quit, to actually do it, without getting sucked back into the addiction. Although I agree that nobody will quit on the basis of this advertisement, I disagree when you say, "i don't think this ad is going to do one damn bit of good". The chances are, with the millions of people who have watched this advertisement all around the world, at least one person got something positive out of it, and helped assist with them quitting.

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Richard Van

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

The point is, people who have quit smoking didn't quit because of this commercial or any commercial for that matter. They quit because they wanted to. If you think a commercial has the power to make somebody quit smoking then you obviously have no idea how powerful an addiction smoking is.

That's a very good point, I don't have kids so I don't know how it would have made me feel.

Having said that for 6 months before I gave up I was very desperate to give up. Is it not possible that people like that, with kids they love dearly who watch the ad while smoking a cigarette they don't want and then look in the garden and see their kid that they definitely wouldn't think harder about stopping? Or maybe call the quit.com.au?

Not one? Because just one kid not going to his Mums funeral is enough for me.

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Kurt

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

The point is, people who have quit smoking didn't quit because of this commercial or any commercial for that matter. They quit because they wanted to. If you think a commercial has the power to make somebody quit smoking then you obviously have no idea how powerful an addiction smoking is.

I quit smoking 10 years ago. I was a 3 1/2 pack a day smoker, so I probalby know a little about the addiction.

However, this commercial isn't only about quiting smoking, it's also about never starting in the first place. You can't become addicted to something you never try.

Agree or not with using a kid, having a child display REAL emotions is a powerful technique. It's virtually impossible to watch the kid cry and not feel his pain. And this ad isn't the only influence. It's part of a decades-long campaign.

The stats suggest these campaigns are working, and working very well. At the end of Prohibition in the US, something like 77% of adults smoked. The last stats I checked shows it's now down to 18%.

How do we explain this dramatic decrease in smoking if it isn't because of these anti-smoking campaigns?

And if TV commercials don't influence human behavior, why have businesses spent trillions of dollars on TV commercials? Are they all just throwing their money away?

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Steven Wagenheim

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Kurt

I quit smoking 10 years ago. I was a 3 1/2 pack a day smoker, so I probalby know a little about the addiction.

However, this commercial isn't only about quiting smoking, it's also about never starting in the first place. You can't become addicted to something you never try.

Agree or not with using a kid, having a child display REAL emotions is a powerful technique. It's virtually impossible to watch the kid cry and not feel his pain. And this ad isn't the only influence. It's part of a decades-long campaign.

The stats suggest these campaigns are working, and working very well. At the end of Prohibition in the US, something like 77% of adults smoked. The last stats I checked shows it's now down to 18%.

How do we explain this dramatic decrease in smoking if it isn't because of these anti-smoking campaigns?

And if TV commercials don't influence human behavior, why have businesses spent trillions of dollars on TV commercials? Are they all just throwing their money away?

Kurt, I pray to God that you're right, that these ads are actually doing something. And I pray that one day not only will nobody smoke but cigarettes will no longer be sold.

And with that, I've gotta get to work.

Good day all.

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seasoned

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

Kurt, I pray to God that you're right, that these ads are actually doing something. And I pray that one day not only will nobody smoke but cigarettes will no longer be sold.

And with that, I've gotta get to work.

Good day all.

I recently saw something I would never have believed could happen! A store, that is BIG, in states that ALLOW smoking, that USED to sell cigarettes, with a competitor that follows them EVERYWHERE, and sells cigarettes, *****STOPPED***** selling cigarettes! OH YEAH, my FATHER stopped smoking! My MOTHER had stopped smoking! I have been in NO office in the past 14 years that allowed smoking! FEW hotels do! NONE of the restaurants have! MAYBE there is some hope!

BTW the store was CVS!

Steve

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HeySal

10 years ago

I'm thinking the kid won't be traumatized later. He might get a little shaky about watching where mom is when they're out in a crowd, but that's not a bad thing.

That said - I still think that if we need to scare kids to have points made to us, we kinda need to figure something out about ourselves.

I can't imagine anyone stopped smoking because of this ad, though. It seems to me the very concept of someone quitting a hardcore addiction over this ad is purely a lark. I guess it made the non-smokers feel like they were doing something, though.

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Mr Bill 10 years ago

Originally Posted by HeySal

I'm thinking the kid won't be traumatized later...

Until the kids at school start picking on him and then he'll want to kill them and then we'll all say that child abuse is no excuse for adult murder.
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Alast 10 years ago

Originally Posted by Mr Bill

Not my words.

This specific incident, yes. If the physical abuse was enough to be taken to court, that is.

Originally Posted by HeySal

I guess it made the non-smokers feel like they were doing something, though.

I agree with this.
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stealth_warrior

10 years ago

i agree with you ... child abuse for marketing purposes is never ok.

but i guess many people more aware because of that ads

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Richard Van 10 years ago

Originally Posted by stealth_warrior

i agree with you ... child abuse for marketing purposes is never ok.

but i guess many people more aware because of that ads

Hi Stealth.

Can you find me the quote where someone, because apparently we're all saying it but can you find me the quote where someone said child abuse is ok for marketing purposes?

When I grew up, losing your Mum in a shopping centre is at the very bottom of what I learned child abuse to mean.

I don't like seeing that kid cry myself as I don't like seeing any kid cry and I suspect as a Mother sitting sat home smoking a ciggy looking at little Jonny playing in the garden that she may feel the same. Maybe she'll ring quit.com.au.
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HeySal

10 years ago

Oh jeez people.

Holy F! Someone made a kid cry cause his mom wasn't there. I'm gonna quit smoking right now!

Well, maybe I'll just go out and have one right now.

Look Mr. Bill......
People aren't empathizing with you because almost every one of us have been laughed at. I can't count the times I was laughed at for something. Most people get over it. For some reason you didn't. I'm sorry that it happened to you, and wonder why it hurt you so terribly that you are this reactive to it to this day.

DO I think adults are morons if they need to make a kid cry to get a point over to other adults? Yeah, I do.

Do I think the commercial did anything in the long run? No. Adults KNOW what they are toking on. I don't know one smoker that doesn't know what the medical community has to say about cigarettes. They smoke anyway. This commercial isn't going to change that.

Will this kid be traumatized for the rest of his life over it? I highly doubt it. It's not worse than most people have experienced, and completely moot compared to what some people had to live through.

Will kids laugh when he gets in school and they see him cry? Maybe. Maybe not. By the time he's in High School, though, the responses are going to be more like "Awe, look how CUTE you were". That will probably make everything alright even if he was embarrassed when younger. It will give him some empathy if it does upset him. Look at how strong the empathy you have for the kid is.

It was a completely wasted and stupid marketing idea from get to go. I think it was wrong to scare the kid...or any kid for any purpose. The odds are very great that he's going to be just fine and the marketing company got lambasted hard enough that they'll be a little smarter next time they want to drive a point home.

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Mr Bill

10 years ago

Originally Posted by HeySal

...It was a completely wasted and stupid marketing idea from get to go. I think it was wrong to scare the kid...or any kid for any purpose. The odds are very great that he's going to be just fine and the marketing company got lambasted hard enough that they'll be a little smarter next time they want to drive a point home.

I'm sure it's not the worst thing to happen to kids but I just can't condone exploiting children - even a little bit. He might get over it and he might not get picked on but who has the right to take that risk? No one. It may not have been sexual or physical or even the worst mental abuse but it was totally unnecessary and I wanted to express my opinion on that based on my own very real experiences as a bullied kid based on an ad that I appeared in when I had no choice and believe me - when I saw what they wanted me to wear I knew it was a bad thing and I was right - it was - and it's effects lasted for years (all my primary school years).

Did I get over it? Yes but don't let me ever see anyone doing that to another kid again because over it or not, it's just not in me to sit back and take it.

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Richard Van

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Mr Bill

I'm sure it's not the worst thing to happen to kids but I just can't condone exploiting children - even a little bit. He might get over it and he might not get picked on but who has the right to take that risk? No one. It may not have been sexual or physical or even the worst mental abuse but it was totally unnecessary and I wanted to express my opinion on that.

And in fairness you have every right to do that.

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Alast

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Mr Bill

I'm sure it's not the worst thing to happen to kids but I just can't condone exploiting children - even a little bit. He might get over it and he might not get picked on but who has the right to take that risk? No one. It may not have been sexual or physical or even the worst mental abuse but it was totally unnecessary and I wanted to express my opinion on that based on my own very real experiences as a bullied kid based on an ad that I appeared in when I had no choice and believe me - when I saw what they wanted me to wear I knew it was a bad thing and I was right - it was - and it's effects lasted for years (all my primary school years).

Did I get over it - yes but don't let me ever see anyone doing that to another kid again because over it or not, it's just not in me to sit back and take it.

I respect your opinion, and appreciate the fact you have every right to express your opinion - I just don't necessarily agree with your opinion. That's what opinions are designed for.

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Mr Bill

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Kurt

...It's virtually impossible to watch the kid cry and not feel his pain.

That's exactly what happened here but with the extra depth of my own personal experience. My reaction was instant but it wasn't the reaction they expected or wanted to illicit.

Originally Posted by Alast

I respect your opinion, and appreciate the fact you have every right to express your opinion - I just don't necessarily agree with your opinion. That's what opinions are designed for.

That's fine, I just had to raise it.

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Kurt

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Mr Bill

That's exactly what happened here but with the extra depth of my own personal experience. My reaction was instant but it wasn't the reaction they expected or wanted to illicit.

Keep saying it. I'm sure that saying the same thing over and over will change everyone's mind. You're probably just a couple dozen more repetitions away from convincing me.

BTW, why aren't you concerned about my childhood troubles? Why is it all about you?

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Mr Bill

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Kurt

Keep saying it. I'm sure that saying the same thing over and over will change everyone's mind. You're probably just a couple dozen more repetitions away from convincing me.

BTW, why aren't you concerned about my childhood troubles? Why is it all about you?

I'm sorry for anything that happened to you but thank you for your extremely useful input. You're right. It's all about me. Yep. That was exactly my point.

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HeySal

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Mr Bill

I'm sure it's not the worst thing to happen to kids but I just can't condone exploiting children - even a little bit. He might get over it and he might not get picked on but who has the right to take that risk? No one. It may not have been sexual or physical or even the worst mental abuse but it was totally unnecessary and I wanted to express my opinion on that.

I appreciate that fact. I also think that others are just as adamant about their own points of view. While they may seem cruel to you, I don't think one of these people would actually ever do anything overtly or purposely cruel to any kid. I think they honestly just feel this wasn't that mean and are surprised at how strongly you feel it is.

The human mind is a strange contraption. Ya just never know what's going to hit people the hardest. I'm wondering why your experience was such a nightmare for you. You were obviously a very sensitive little kid. At least this world and all of it's ignorance and insensitivity hasn't changed that for you. A little more empathy could probably go a long way for all of the rest of us, too. Stay caring. It's a good quality.

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seasoned

10 years ago

You know, it is IRONIC! Before I was 10yo, I was threatened, beaten, bored, exhausted by trying to breath POLLUTED air(OFTEN WITH CIGARETTE SMOKE), and effectively abandoned for times from nothing to over a day. I forget how long I was essentially an ORPHAN, but still remember what the bed was like. I slept the night. I was lost, HUNDREDS of miles away from home, I didn't know where ANY family was and didn't have ANY reason to believe that they knew where I was!

So HEY, I think MY situation trumps bills.

In a way, it is odd. Kids are tortured EVERY DAY and ********NOBODY******** cares! This film addresses ONE way they are tortured, and bill hates it because it shows ANOTHER way as well. You don't even know if the kid was acting or something.

Steve

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Mr Bill

10 years ago

I'm stunned at how many people have stepped up to defend what these arseholes did. Using a child's distress to sell a message is a vile and low act regardless of how many worse things can happen to a child or how many "superkids" you've raised. It's not very far from that view to arguing that Murder is worse than rape. Bad is bad.

The kid was clearly and honestly distressed, they filmed it, even edited it to make it look worse and go for longer and broadcast it globally. That was a bad thing and I think he will pay for it for many years in the ways I've detailed. It doesn't take too much intelligence to see that.

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Kay King

10 years ago

What is your remedy? Would you take this child away from his mother as you have judged her to be abusive? Where would you put the child that would be safer or better?

Whatever - it's opinion and we don't get a say in that child's life.

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Mr Bill

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

What is your remedy? Would you take this child away from his mother as you have judged her to be abusive? Where would you put the child that would be safer or better?

Whatever - it's opinion and we don't get a say in that child's life.

What sort of an insane argument is that Kay? My remedy is not to do that to a child - any child. I'm pretty sure that's extremely obvious.

For ****s sake! All I said is this was bad! How any of you can defend these guys is totally beyond me. But, by all means keep it up and keep destroying your reputations - no skin off my nose. If you condone what they did then you are no better than they are.

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Steven Wagenheim

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Mr Bill

What sort of an insane argument is that Kay? My remedy is not to do that to a child - any child. I'm pretty sure that's extremely obvious.

For ****s sake! All I said is this was bad! How any of you can defend these guys is totally beyond me. But, by all means keep it up and keep destroying your reputations - no skin off my nose. If you condone what they did then you are no better than they are.

Oh really? I'm no better than they are?

You sir can go F yourself.

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Mr Bill 10 years ago

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

Oh really? I'm no better than they are?

You sir can go F yourself.

If you condone what they do hen yes, you're no better than they are and if you find that offensive perhaps you should ask yourself why? Why would you not like being compared to the exploiters? Mmmm, busted much? You hate it as much as I do or else you be standing by their side. That fact that you want me to go **** myself tells me only one thing and that's that I'm right.

lol...Thank you.
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Richard Van

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Mr Bill

I'm stunned at how many people have stepped up to defend what these arseholes did. Using a child's distress to sell a message is a vile and low act regardless of how many worse things can happen to a child or how many "superkids" you've raised. It's not very far from that view to arguing that Murder is worse than rape. Bad is bad.

The kid was clearly and honestly distressed, they filmed it, even edited it to make it look worse and go for longer and broadcast it globally. That was a bad thing and I think he will pay for it for many years in the ways I've detailed. It doesn't take too much intelligence to see that.

There's an advert here of scared looking kids in abused homes. They are clearly actors, they all look very sad and some are crying. They are depicting kids suffering from child abuse but some how they've made them sad or cry so you think they're the actual kids scared or crying in their abusive homes.

Should those child abuse donation adverts be banned for abusing children in their ads?

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Mr Bill

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Richard Van

There's an advert here of scared looking kids in abused homes. They are clearly actors, they all look very sad and some are crying. They are depicting kids suffering from child abuse but some how they've made them sad or cry so you think they're the actual kids scared or crying in their abusive homes.

Should those child abuse donation adverts be banned for abusing children in their ads?

Oh god, seriously? If they were acting they clearly weren't distressed. This poor kid was actually distressed and there's no argument about that - the ad agency even admitted it while attempting to defend their ad. To suggest the two are comparable is flawed.

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Richard Van

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Mr Bill

Oh god, seriously? If they were acting they clearly weren't distressed. This poor kid was actually distressed and there's no argument about that - the ad agency even admitted it while attempting to defend their ad. To suggest the two are comparable is flawed.

You know for a fact the advert I'm talking about, the advert I haven't said anything about other than calling it an advert, the advert that's aired over here, is done by actors? These kids are crying on tap?

You can actually say that with certainty that the ad company that made those ads for the charity absolutely definitely got child actors with a penchant for crying to come in?

My turn to say wow. Looks like the ad company that did the ad for quit.com.au are the only 'child abusing' ad company out there.

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Mr Bill

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Richard Van

You know for a fact the advert I'm talking about, the advert I haven't said anything about other than calling it an advert, the advert that's aired over here, is done by actors? These kids are crying on tap?

You can actually say that with certainty that the ad company that made those ads for the charity absolutely definitely got child actors with a penchant for crying to come in?

My turn to say wow. Looks like the ad company that did the ad for quit.com.au are the only 'child abusing' ad company out there.

I have no idea what ad you're talking about. You're the one telling the story Richard. You said they were actors - I didn't. If they were acting then no abuse or distress was experienced so your comparison is invalid.

At least we are finally starting to agree that the makers of this ad are exploiting (and by association abusing) the poor kid. I'm glad we agree.

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Richard Van

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Mr Bill

I have no idea what ad you're talking about. You're the one telling the story Richard. You said they were actors - I didn't. If they were acting then no abuse or distress was experienced so your comparison is invalid.

At least we are finally starting to agree that the makers of this ad are exploiting (and by association abusing) the poor kid. I'm glad we agree.

No, I mean't they're actors just like this kid in the smoking advert and like that kid they're crying.

My point stands that they made the kid cry in the smoking ad and they made them cry in the...wait for it...Child abuse advert.

The kids in both ads are the same. Are you saying the kid and the film crew and all the other people present in the smoking ad are different to the kids (That's more than one kid) film crew and and all the other people in the child abuse ad?

Nothing invalid about my point at all. Kids being made to cry to get to a goal, only thing is in my case the kids are crying to raise money for child abuse.

Do you see the irony? They're making kids cry to make money for kids that suffer from child abuse.

On that note, I'm off home where I shall sit in the sun and enjoy a beer. I hope you have a nice weekend Bill.

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Mr Bill

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Richard Van

No, I mean't they're actors just like this kid in the smoking advert and like that kid they're crying.

My point stands that they made the kid cry in the smoking ad and they made them cry in the...wait for it...Child abuse advert.

The kids in both ads are the same. Are you saying the kid and the film crew and all the other people present in the smoking ad is different to the kids (That's more than one kid) film crew and and all the other people in the child abuse ad?

Nothing invalid about my point at all. Kids being made to cry to get to a goal, only thing is in my case the kids are crying to raise money for child abuse.

Do you see the irony? They're making kids cry to make money for kids that suffer from child abuse.

No, you're wrong. Those kids (according to you) were actors. This is a three and a half year old kid who was not acting. THAT'S the difference. Not only did they make him cry (and it's beyond me how any of you could condone that for advertising purposes) but they exploited that moment of distress for their own agenda. Anyone who thinks that's ok has serious issues.

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Richard Van

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Mr Bill

No, you're wrong. Those kids (according to you) were actors. This is a three and a half year old kid who was not acting. THAT'S the difference. Not only did they make him cry (and it's beyond me how any of you could condone that for advertising purposes) but they exploited that moment of distress for their own agenda. Anyone who thinks that's ok has serious issues.

One of the kids is the same age as that one, he's in a cot. He's about 3 to 4 years old. Crying hysterically.

I said actors because anyone in any advert where it's being filmed by a film crew is just that.

I'm not wrong. Stop giving it the "You said they were actors" crap. I'm using that word in the sense that they're not the same kids in the adverts to raise money for starving kids where they film actual starving kids. That kid didn't really lose his Mum just like the kids in the child abuse ads were not really kids in abused homes. They were actors, in both cases. Do you get that? If not don't respond, you're not understanding what I'm saying and making up what you want to hear.

I'm saying they made both cry or are you saying this was CCTV or hidden camera of some poor kid who lost his Mum? No your not.

Good bye Bill.

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Mr Bill

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Richard Van

...Stop giving it the "You said they were actors" crap...

Hey, you're the one who said it. I think you're a bit confused because you've been busted agreeing with me. That's ok, kids need us to defend them when they're being treated like this so welcome aboard.

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Richard Van

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Mr Bill

Hey, you're the one who said it. I think you're a bit confused because you've been busted agreeing with me. That's ok, kids need us to defend them when they're being treated like this so welcome aboard.

Think whatever you want Bill, I'm out of this.

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Mr Bill 10 years ago

Originally Posted by Richard Van

Think whatever you want Bill, I'm out of this.

Thank you for your permission to be upset when miserable adults do stupid things and stand up to people who think it's ok. How clever. Good! Bye bye.
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- Richard Van 10 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Mr Bill
  
  Thank you for your permission to be upset when miserable adults do stupid things and stand up to people who think it's ok. How clever. Good! Bye bye.
  
  Let the sun shine in your face and let those shadows hang behind you.
  
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  Paul Myers 10 years ago
  
  Robert,
  
  You crack me up
  
  I'll take that result.
  
  As far as the football incident, the explanation is so sensible (even if the rules aren't) that chasing the theory after hearing it suggests an agenda on the part of the "offended" people. According to the player, his coach told him when he got back to the sidelines, "You can't slide."
  
  There's also the outright lie going around that the guy was threatened with fines for praying. That simply never happened, but even being told that doesn't deter the folks on Facebook who want to believe there's some sort of anti-Muslim bias in the NFL.
  
  People will believe what they want to believe, no matter what the facts suggest.
  
  Claude,
  
  Sort of like the old Michelin commercials. "Because there's a lot riding on your tires." That one was a grabber.
  
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Paul Myers 10 years ago

Bill,

"Exploit" means to use a thing to one's advantage. In that sense, they did in fact exploit the situation. But ONLY the situation. Not the child. And it wasn't done for profit in the usual sense, which is why I made the distinction regarding the type of marketing.

The common connotation of the word when applied to a person suggests using them for one's own advantage and to the "exploited" person's disadvantage, in an unfair fashion. I don't see that fitting this scenario at all.

So Mom walked away knowing she'd get that reaction. It will still be a lesson the kid will benefit from, as most children do from the same experience. He's no more likely to suffer from it than any child who's left with a baby sitter. Less so, in fact, because the response will have been immediate, rather than hours later.

Most of us are uncomfortable when seeing a child in distress. That's not only normal, it's programmed into us. It's genetic. Our first impulse is to do something to protect the child. It comes from exactly the same place as the "it's so cute" response to kittens and puppies and any other mammal with a disproportionately large head and eyes.

Your insistence that this kid is going to be somehow scarred is based only on a very different experience you had as a child, and is unlikely to actually be borne out. Pounding that drum over and over isn't likely to convince anyone.

Which is a more "pure" motive? A parent who walks away from a child for a few seconds in order to simultaneously get paid (with some or all of that going to the child's benefit, one presumes) and promote a worthwhile health issue, or the one who hands the kid over to a stranger for hours at a time so they can go out and have dinner with friends?

Also, just as an aside... if the kid is 3 and a half years old, it's unlikely anyone he goes to school with (by the time he does) will recognize him, even if they see the commercial. If you want to talk about red herrings, that one is the champ in this thread.

Paul
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Paul Myers

10 years ago

Bill,

I don't have any children so that means I should be happy when I see kids abused.

No, it means that you may not understand just how resilient children are to such simple things.

I don't have kids myself, but my family is very large, and I've dealt with a LOT of cousins, my siblings, and many of their kids. A momentary separation anxiety in an unfamiliar environment is not going to leave an emotional hangover the next day, much less scar a child's psyche for life. What it will do, in any reasonably normal child, is prepare them for the idea that they're okay when Mom isn't within arm's reach.

My cousin Matt would scream terribly for a couple of years when his mother or another trusted adult wasn't around. He'd been very sick (spinal meningitis), and the time he spent in the hospital left him afraid of being away from his home and family. He equated it with physical pain and aloneness.

A reasonable fear for a 7 year old.

By the time he was 10, he was over it - completely. He is one of the most well-adjusted and thoroughly together people I've had the privilege to know.

Kids get picked on in school. This one has nothing to worry about if his parents have any sense. "Just explain to them that it's acting. Make believe, to get people to think about not smoking. Then ask them when was the last time they got paid to be on TV."

Boom. Social status enhanced. No stigma.

That child was not abused. From what I've seen so far, it sounds like he had a real moment of separation anxiety and they used the film of that to make their point.

And I'm sorry, but anti-smoking campaigns are not marketing in the sense that would make this any sort of "wrong."

Paul

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Mr Bill

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

Bill,No, it means that you may not understand just how resilient children are to such simple things.

I don't have kids myself, but my family is very large, and I've dealt with a LOT of cousins, my siblings, and many of their kids. A momentary separation anxiety in an unfamiliar environment is not going to leave an emotional hangover the next day, much less scar a child's psyche for life. What it will do, in any reasonably normal child, is prepare them for the idea that they're okay when Mom isn't within arm's reach.

My cousin Matt would scream terribly for a couple of years when his mother or another trusted adult wasn't around. He'd been very sick (spinal meningitis), and the time he spent in the hospital left him afraid of being away from his home and family. He equated it with physical pain and aloneness.

A reasonable fear for a 7 year old.

By the time he was 10, he was over it - completely. He is one of the most well-adjusted and thoroughly together people I've had the privilege to know.

Kids get picked on in school. This one has nothing to worry about if his parents have any sense. "Just explain to them that it's acting. Make believe, to get people to think about not smoking. Then ask them when was the last time they got paid to be on TV."

Boom. Social status enhanced. No stigma.

That child was not abused. From what I've seen so far, it sounds like he had a real moment of separation anxiety and they used the film of that to make their point.

And I'm sorry, but anti-smoking campaigns are not marketing in the sense that would make this any sort of "wrong."

Paul

Paul the abuse is in the exploitation. His mother walked away on purpose in order to get that reaction. They've admitted that. The marketing for a quit smoking campaign is still marketing and I don't think it was right to parade this kid in his moment of distress for all the world to see and now there's a big risk that when he gets to school he'll be ridiculed and that's where the abuse lies.

Clearly a moment of distress and all these red herring arguments about how kids get distressed all the time are moot. The fact is that this kids distress is being used as a marketing tool and that's where I think this crossed the line.

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Mr Bill

10 years ago

Paul, I wouldn't have to keep repeating it if the supporters of this kind of behaviour kept ignoring it. It's not about the kids that he goes to pre-school with now, it's the kids later on at "big" school that will pick on him and even if the chances are slim does that give the adults the right to take that risk? Who can honestly say that this kid later on is going to like having his distress broadcast for all to see?

The facts, he didn't cry on cue. He was made to cry so they could film him. That can't be condoned for any reason no matter how small the risks are. It's just not. Intelligent adults ought to be able to think of something better than that. They resorted to a cheap shot and I'm calling them out on it.

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Steven Wagenheim

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Mr Bill

Paul, I wouldn't have to keep repeating it if the supporters of this kind of behaviour kept ignoring it. It's not about the kids that he goes to pre-school with now, it's the kids later on at "big" school that will pick on him and even if the chances are slim does that give the adults the right to take that risk? Who can honestly say that this kid later on is going to like having his distress broadcast for all to see?

The facts, he didn't cry on cue. He was made to cry so they could film him. That can't be condoned for any reason no matter how small the risks are. It's just not. Intelligent adults ought to be able to think of something better than that. They resorted to a cheap shot and I'm calling them out on it.

In your response to Paul, you completely ignored this question.

Which is a more "pure" motive? A parent who walks away from a child for a few seconds in order to simultaneously get paid (with some or all of that going to the child's benefit, one presumes) and promote a worthwhile health issue, or the one who hands the kid over to a stranger for hours at a time so they can go out and have dinner with friends?

I would like an answer to it.

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Mr Bill

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

In your response to Paul, you completely ignored this question.

I would like an answer to it.

Would you? I didn't answer it because it was loaded but I wouldn't want to disobey your command. Which one filmed the distress and sold it to an advertising agency?

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Steven Wagenheim

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Mr Bill

Would you? I didn't answer it because it was loaded but I wouldn't want to disobey your command. Which one filmed the distress and sold it to an advertising agency?

In other words, you don't have an answer.

As I figured.

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Paul Myers

10 years ago

Bill,

That question was no more "loaded" than your arguments. Probably a lot less so, since it involves real-life situations that happen every day in well-adjusted, normal families all over the world.

Here's a "less loaded" question for you: How old were you when you appeared in the commercial you mentioned earlier?

Paul

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Mr Bill

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

Bill,

That question was no more "loaded" than your arguments. Probably a lot less so, since it involves real-life situations that happen every day in well-adjusted, normal families all over the world.

Here's a "less loaded" question for you: How old were you when you appeared in the commercial you mentioned earlier?

Paul

It's all up in the first few posts Paul.

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Kay King

10 years ago

This is typical of what makes kids cry...seriously, it is.

Hilarious Photos of Kids Throwing Tantrums for the Craziest Reasons

The captions may sound funny....but any parent will have similar stories to tell.

My favorite: He doesn't want to go even though we told him we aren't going anywhere.

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sbucciarel

Banned 10 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

This is typical of what makes kids cry...seriously, it is.

Hilarious Photos of Kids Throwing Tantrums for the Craziest Reasons

The captions may sound funny....but any parent will have similar stories to tell.

My favorite: He doesn't want to go even though we told him we aren't going anywhere.

LOL ... brings back memories remembering all the reasons and how often children cry.

“I planted a flower in the pot he gave me.”
“I did not buy him a suit of armor.”
“The ocean is too loud.”
“Miley was on TV.”
“I made her a lantern.”
“He’s scared of his Darth Vader t-shirt (which he picked out and insisted on wearing.)”
“I won’t let him eat styrofoam.”
“They asked me if they were five. I said no.”
He couldn’t have ALL the trains in the museum.
I wouldn’t let him demo (destroy) all the items in this Apple Store.
He took his socks and shoes off. His feet are now cold.
“There was no more cake…because he’d eaten it all.”
“He couldn’t close his toy box because his foot was in it.”
“He can’t find his rubber ducky.” (It's on his head)
“Her hair got wet.”
“I told her she can’t marry daddy (…or her brother).”
“They received new hats.”
“She found out that I have a name other than ‘Mum’.”
“She got paint on her fingers while finger painting.”
“He spotted his beloved and very stinky stuffed doggy in the washing machine.”
“Microwave ate his lunch.”
He didn’t want to be Superman.

"I wouldn't let her out of the house dressed like that."

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TimPhelan

10 years ago

Here's what I read in an article about the spot:

Before filming, they say that the actor was well versed in what was going to happen and was told it was going to be an exercise in "make-believe."

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headline...es-the-lost-l/

Seems to me, it's good acting rather than anything remotely close to child abuse. Now, if they simply put a kid out there who didn't know what was going to happen, who wasn't an actor, then I would have a problem with it.

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ForumGuru

Banned 10 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

Here's what I read in an article about the spot:
Seems to me, it's good acting rather than anything remotely close to child abuse. Now, if they simply put a kid out there who didn't know what was going to happen, who wasn't an actor, then I would have a problem with it.

For the record the kid was told what was going to happen, and the commercial was rehearsed, but he did start shedding real tears as he actually lost sight of his mother towards the end of the commercial. The people that produced the ad say Alex shed about 5 minutes of real tears at that point.

See the 1:25-2:30 mark of the interview with Fiona Sharkie, the executive director of the Quit Victoria anti-smoking group.

Scared Little Boy (Anti-Smoking ad) from the...

Cheers

-don

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TimPhelan

10 years ago

Originally Posted by ForumGuru

The people that produced the ad say Alex shed about 5 minutes of real tears at that point.

See the 1:25-2:30 mark of the interview with Fiona Sharkie, the executive director of the Quit Victoria anti-smoking group.

Cheers

-don

Thanks for that video Don. Do you think she misspoke when she said 5 minutes? I read in other articles it was 5 seconds and later in that interview the spokesperson says "within seconds of those tears" he was with his mom giggling.

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ForumGuru

Banned 10 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

Thanks for that video Don. Do you think she misspoke when she said 5 minutes? I read in other articles it was 5 seconds and later in that interview the spokesperson says "within seconds of those tears" he was with his mom giggling.

I am not sure but it's possible, as I wondered the exact same thing when I listened to the interview. Unless of course he just got a ltlle fussy with the whole thing by that time a cried it out for a while.

Cheers

-don

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Paul Myers 10 years ago

Bill,

I don't know about you, but where I and my siblings went, kids were a lot more mean in middle and high school than in grade school. And nobody ever got made fun of in first grade, much less later, for having cried in kindergarten.

Okay. Rather than answer the question with a number, you make me search for it.

So, you were 7. In school at an age where the other kids would recognize you and be old enough to be watching TV. We're already into a whole different environment. And it was, if I recall correctly, about clothing, which is the cause of a big chunk of school abuse.

Don't you think conflating the two is a bit over the top?

Leaving out the excessive abuse you've heaped on quite a number of people here for the crime of simply seeing it from a different perspective that doesn't involve painful personal memories of an unusual nature...

Paul
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Mr Bill 10 years ago

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- Rod Cortez 10 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Mr Bill
  
  Give it a rest moron. You figured nothing! Don't try and be clever - it's not working. I gave my answer.
  
  Enough with the name calling. Let's keep this discussion civil or I am closing this thread.
  
  I understand there's a lot of emotion going on here, but if we can't keep the name calling or personal attacks out of this discussion, I will lock the thread.
  
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Paul Myers

10 years ago

Bill,

Nobody in middle or high school is going to pick on someone for crying when they were 3 years old, assuming they ever know about it. Even the most malicious types where I went to school wouldn't have gone that far. They'd have been laughed out of school.

You're reaching, dude.

The risks of what you describe happening are infinitesimal. A tiny fraction of the risk of, say, leaving a child with a baby sitter.

For what you fear to actually happen would require a ridiculously improbable set of circumstances. They'd require malicious adults having knowledge of the kid's having been in the commercial, a motive for harming the kid later, access to one or more sociopathic students in the kids' school, and a culture in the school that was so idiotic that bashing him over it wouldn't result in social rejection of the basher.

What are the odds of all of those things happening at the same time?

Paul

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Mr Bill

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

Bill,

Nobody in middle or high school is going to pick on someone for crying when they were 3 years old, assuming they ever know about it. Even the most malicious types where I went to school wouldn't have gone that far. They'd have been laughed out of school.

You're reaching, dude.

The risks of what you describe happening are infinitesimal. A tiny fraction of the risk of, say, leaving a child with a baby sitter.

For what you fear to actually happen would require a ridiculously improbable set of circumstances. They'd require malicious adults having knowledge of the kid's having been in the commercial, a motive for harming the kid later, access to one or more sociopathic students in the kids' school, and a culture in the school that was so idiotic that bashing him over it wouldn't result in social rejection of the basher.

What are the odds of all of those things happening at the same time?

Paul

Paul, the teasing will occur in early primary school when kids are mean and stupid. It wasn't so infinitesimal in my case so I'm the only one speaking from direct experience here. Come to think of it, other kids also copped it. Maybe kids in America are all awesome and well behaved - but here in Australia they can be wicked and mean and these days with social media I'd think the chances of them finding out are not as infinitesimal as you may think. In fact they would be greater I'd think.

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bizgrower

10 years ago

Sorry for your childhood experience, Mr Bill.

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Paul Myers

10 years ago

Watched it again, and then the comments from the producer. I just don't see the big issue here. The kid wasn't hysterical or panicked, and the mother was back to him, according to the producer, within seconds of the tears starting. Supposedly he was giggling shortly after that.

And for goodness sake, they don't even mention his name. It would seem they never will, so how would the kids he'll go to school with later even know who it was in the commercial? If they did, a few tears like that from an actor isn't going to get the kid harassed in school. That's just not going to happen.

This raises some interesting and valid points about advertising, but I can't imagine why it would cause such a stir.

No, that's not true. I can imagine why. People like drama, and they'll jump for it even when it's not there.

Paul

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discrat

10 years ago

Man this is child abuse by yet a clearly deluded woman at Walmart purposefully letting her daughter tumble out of a Shopping cart is not child abuse

lol
Seriously, if that was a totally impromptu scene where a hidden camera was taking this and the boy had NO idea what was going on then I would kind of shake my head in disgust. Couldn't imagine doing that to my girls

But from what I have read it seems this was rehearsed and he may have become emotional after a bit.

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TimPhelan 10 years ago

Originally Posted by discrat

But from what I have read it seems this was rehearsed and he may have become emotional after a bit.

I think that was the whole point of the rehearsals: start crying after your mom leaves. I haven't heard anything that makes me believe it wasn't all acting.
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- Steven Wagenheim 10 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by TimPhelan
  
  I think that was the whole point of the rehearsals: start crying after your mom leaves. I haven't heard anything that makes me believe it wasn't all acting.
  
  And kids can be incredible actors. Just watch some of the daytime soaps.
  
  OMG, Nick and Sharon are getting married today and Phyllis has returned from her coma and Jack is there with Kelsey and he'll totally flip when Phyllis crashes the wedding and Victor is going to find out the truth about Sharon which really doesn't matter because Phyllis is going to spill the beans anyway and poor Michael probably has prostate cancer.
  
  Oh the humanity.
  
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  TimPhelan 10 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim
  
  And kids can be incredible actors.
  
  Yep. Here's one at 1 1/2 years old already knowing how:
  
  Boy Fake Cries on Cue. Hilarious! - YouTube
  
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Paul Myers

10 years ago

Robert,

a clearly [distracted] woman at Walmart [accidentally or through neglect] letting her daughter tumble out of a Shopping cart is not child abuse

Fixed that for ya.

The mother was still responsible for the fall in that one, of course, but the intent is what I questioned.

The part where the "adults" start yelling at each other isn't connected to the actual fall except peripherally. The people videoing the thing were looking for drama, so they could post it to Facebook or YouTube and feel all righteous and stuff.

Like the people who accused the NFL of being anti-Muslim because a ref made a call based on the rules as he thought they were being broken. Doesn't change their minds that the player and his coach both understood what happened and don't think there was any religious element to the call at all. They're gonna have their drama and crucify their "villain," dammit!

Paul

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Paul Myers

10 years ago

Jonathan,

I think almost anyone would feel sorry for the kid. That's the normal response, even if you knew it was 100% acting.

Back when A&P markets had coffee grinders, I used to beg my Mom to let me hang out by the machine when we'd go shopping. (I loved the smell of fresh ground coffee even then.) The few times I got separated from my parents, it wasn't at all scary. I was always an independent little monster.

I understand the whole "fear of abandonment" and "separation anxiety" things in an intellectual sense, from having seen a lot of it. It's one of those that I don't really grasp at an emotional level, though, having never had that concern.

The idea of my parents abandoning me never even occurred to me.

Paul

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Jonathan 2.0 Banned 10 years ago

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

I think almost anyone would feel sorry for the kid. That's the normal response, even if you knew it was 100% acting.

True. Good point. : )
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Claude Whitacre

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

Jonathan,

I think almost anyone would feel sorry for the kid. That's the normal response, even if you knew it was 100% acting.
The idea of my parents abandoning me never even occurred to me.

Paul

I think the commercial is brilliant. It grabs you on an instinctual level. I don't think you can help but be affected by it. And smoking is tagged as the reason the kid is alone.

These commercials that are very primal, will work better than any argument.

Yeah, the idea of my parents abandoning me, never occurred to me either. But I wonder if it occurred to them?

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whateverpedia

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Mr Bill

Yeah, the idea of my parents abandoning me, never occurred to me either. But I wonder if it occurred to them?

My parents abandoned me many times when I was a toddler. The only trauma I suffered was that they kept coming back.

(And yes, I'm joking).

As the one who started the ball rolling in this thread disagreeing with the OP's premise, I feel I should come back to the thread.

I left it when it became apparent that the OP was upset about the ad due to a personal experience he had.

There is nothing I can say to the OP that will make him feel better about his experience, and neither can anyone else. If it still disturbs him after all these years perhaps some professional counselling may be in order. That is far beyond the scope of this forum though. The OP will have to deal with it in his own way.

Australia has a history of showing ads on serious topics that are designed to shock. Fellow Aussies will remember some of the drink-driving ads that have been shown over the years as examples of this. It's not meant to make you feel good - far from it. It gets the message across loud and clear.

Anyway, 5 years after the ad was shown, people are still talking about it. In a marketing forum wouldn't we all like to have created a campaign that people were still talking about 5 years after it was launched.

And Bill, you asked what lessons the child would've learnt from this happening to him, here's two:

1) Never let your parents out of your sight. In another 5 years time when he's 13 or so, that won't matter so much as he'll be trying everything he can to get away from his folks, but for the time being he'll know not to let them get away.

2) He'll probably learn not to take up smoking.

If he takes that much from the experience, even he will agree that it was all worth it.

From my own experiences, my folks told me over and over not to touch a burning stove. The only way that I actually learnt that lesson was for them to actually let me touch one. It hurt like hell, and I bawled my eyes out.

Was letting me touch the burning stove child abuse? I don't believe so, because I learnt a lesson that will stay with me forever.

Anyway, that's my final contribution to this thread. I'm outta here.

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Kurt

10 years ago

Originally Posted by whateverpedia

Australia has a history of showing ads on serious topics that are designed to shock. Fellow Aussies will remember some of the drink-driving ads that have been shown over the years as examples of this. It's not meant to make you feel good - far from it. It gets the message across loud and clear.

Anyway, 5 years after the ad was shown, people are still talking about it. In a marketing forum wouldn't we all like to have created a campaign that people were still talking about 5 years after it was launched.

The following commercial by Yul Brynner had a big impact on me. It did take me about 20 years after seeing his commercial for me to stop smoking, but his message stuck with me all that time.

This commercial doesn't look special, but its impact was because it was released a couple of days after Brynner's death from lung cancer and was recorded when he knew he was going to die..

Yul Brynner's Anti-Smoking PSA - YouTube

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TimPhelan 10 years ago

Originally Posted by Kurt

The following commercial by Yul Brynner had a big impact on me.

One commercial that stood out to me as a kid was the one of the DA in the Perry Mason show. Same thing with him, he knew he was dying.
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- Steven Wagenheim 10 years ago
  
  I remember the Brenner one but don't remember this one. Don't think it aired in my area.
  
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discrat

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

Robert,Fixed that for ya.

The mother was still responsible for the fall in that one, of course, but the intent is what I questioned.

The part where the "adults" start yelling at each other isn't connected to the actual fall except peripherally. The people videoing the thing were looking for drama, so they could post it to Facebook or YouTube and feel all righteous and stuff.

Like the people who accused the NFL of being anti-Muslim because a ref made a call based on the rules as he thought they were being broken. Doesn't change their minds that the player and his coach both understood what happened and don't think there was any religious element to the call at all. They're gonna have their drama and crucify their "villain," dammit!

Paul

Paul,
You crack me up

Using a bit of playfulness and trying to lighten things up a little in this Thread with some irony, sarcasm, and some self deprecation.

Not trying to rehash the Walmart incident here....at least not in a serious manner

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discrat

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

Robert,Fixed that for ya.

Like the people who accused the NFL of being anti-Muslim because a ref made a call based on the rules as he thought they were being broken. Doesn't change their minds that the player and his coach both understood what happened and don't think there was any religious element to the call at all. They're gonna have their drama and crucify their "villain," dammit!

Paul

The scary thing Paul is my wife DVR 'ed The View and I happened to watch it right after this incident.

Rosie O Donnell went off big time saying the incident was directly spurred on by Anti-Muslim sentiment which is so prevalent in the US now

Later on she retracted when one of the other women on The View said the NFL came on air and said the referees made a honest mistake with no ulterior motives and apologized for it.

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Jonathan 2.0 Banned 10 years ago

Same Paul: I don't see the big fuss either. Although I felt sad for the little guy, the video didn't really affect me at all.

I actually lost my Parents in The Supermarket when I was a toddler. (In fact, I had to go to the front counter and ask the Man for help.) It wasn't a pleasant experience.

They announced my name on the big speaker saying that I had lost them. Looking back, it didn't affect me at all. Even to this day, I love shopping for food. It even occurred to me (that although it would be slightly odd) that my Parents "abandoned" me on purpose.

Anyway, I guess the point is that kids are extremely resilient and "bounce back" from situations much worse than that of the video.
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seasoned

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

Watched it again, and then the comments from the producer. I just don't see the big issue here. The kid wasn't hysterical or panicked, and the mother was back to him, according to the producer, within seconds of the tears starting. Supposedly he was giggling shortly after that.

And for goodness sake, they don't even mention his name. It would seem they never will, so how would the kids he'll go to school with later even know who it was in the commercial? If they did, a few tears like that from an actor isn't going to get the kid harassed in school. That's just not going to happen.

This raises some interesting and valid points about advertising, but I can't imagine why it would cause such a stir.

No, that's not true. I can imagine why. People like drama, and they'll jump for it even when it's not there.

Paul

There is actually a special job in the acting industry. The title is "Baby Wrangler"!!!!!! Since many may think I am making this up, here is one of MANY references via google: Coaxing the Smile That Sells - Baby Wranglers in Demand in Marketing for Children - NYTimes.com

They may do ANYTHING! Maybe the kid doesn't want a stuffed bird next to a stuffed cat, and the wrangler does it. Maybe the wrangler will tell the child he or she won't get a treat today, etc... But they elicit some reaction from the child without even TOUCHING the child, or threatening in any real way.

I doubt VERY much that ANY of what was done here was as real as it seemed. It is also TOO unpredictable.

Steve

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Paul Myers

10 years ago

Steve,

You gotta respect a pharmacy that decides not to sell cigarettes. They also do in-store flu shots, and offer all sorts of other health options. If memory serves, they were the first major chain pharmacy to do free blood pressure checks and give patients clear summaries of possible negative interactions of prescription drugs, too.

Paul

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Kurt

10 years ago

About the NFL, their rule is that a player can't go to the ground to celebrate. So if the ref didn't recognize it as prayer, it was an obvious penalty to him. If an NFL player does "the worm" in a celebration, he will be penalized for "going to the ground" to celebrate.

However, the NFL also has a rule that permits religious celebrations. It wasn't about the praying, it was all about going to the ground and the ref not recognizing it was a prayer.

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Kay King 10 years ago

my wife DVR 'ed The View

There's your problem Not exactly a bed of logical conclusions there.
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- discrat 10 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Kay King
  
  There's your problem Not exactly a bed of logical conclusions there.
  
  Yeah, she gets into it. I used to but honestly that Rosie O'donnel jumps to conclusions about many things. And it gets old
  
  Although I do not agree with Whoopi a lot, I feel like she has always been fair for the most part
  
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I don't like (HATE!) this (child abuse) ad

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