Down But Not Out And Will Come Back Stronger Than Ever

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Short and to the point and them I'm outta here to find some work, yet again.

Constant Content refuses to accept me as an author. I can only imagine why. No, scratch that. I have no clue.

Textbroker has just downgraded me to a 3.4 star writer.

Why?

Because one client out of the 39 clients I have already written for didn't like my sense of humor in the article I wrote for him. But instead of just asking for a rewrite as other clients have done so that I could then release the article back into the queue for somebody else to work on, he makes a federal case out of it by refusing it, locking it up in the queue and thus forcing Textbroker to investigate. That investigation lead to their downgrading me because of this article.

The end result?

As a 3.4 star writer, there is nothing for me to write anymore as 99% of the articles in the queue are for 4 star writers. So my work has essentially been cut off,

With no WFH coming in since my first 2 clients, I'm back at square one...no income.

No problem.

I'm going to pick myself up off the floor, dust myself off, go to Google, look up "write articles for money" and see if there are any other sites of this kind out there that I can possibly write for.

In addition to that, I will continue working on my other projects since I have no writing work at this time. I'm certainly not going to sit around twiddling my thumbs or playing video games.

If anybody has any other suggestions for work I can do online, I'm all ears. Nothing is beneath me anymore. I've written for a penny a word these past few weeks so I hope I've proved that I'm not too good for honest work. I'm just having trouble thinking right now so a few ideas would be great. Any kind of paying job online I'll do.

They can kick me, beat me and pulverize me into the ground.

But they can't kill my spirit.

This too shall pass.
  • Profile picture of the author barbling
    They can kick me, beat me and pulverize me into the ground.

    But they can't kill my spirit.

    This too shall pass.
    You are correct - it will pass and you WILL come back strong than ever. Walking thru the fire always tempers us in ways mere normal life never could.

    Best of skill!
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  • Profile picture of the author laurencewins
    I hate the stress of chasing work. You can always try tie bidding sites such as elance or freelancer. Advertise in this forum. There are lots of sites that do advertise work so if you have the chops, you should pick some up.
    Pm me if you want extra tips.
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    Cheers, Laurence.
    Writer/Editor/Proofreader.

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    • Profile picture of the author AnniePot
      Write for Kindle. This is now where I direct 95% of my writing endeavors. Mind you, probably half of your success on Kindle depends upon your pre-writing research, to ascertain what is selling, and pre-publication and post-publication promotion.

      If you do go the Kindle route, and it can be lucrative, I strongly suggest you get your hands on everything Diana Houser and Tink have written about book promotion and much, much more.

      Also, join The Warrior Book Club.

      Good luck Steve . . .
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      • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
        Damn, l really thought you were on the up and up!


        I have to admit that this sort of crap is unfortunately a common occurrence!

        Well, at least on Fiverr it is!

        I have read some stories about individuals who became too successful with one or more gigs, and the competition, just had to kick up a stink, (similar to your situation, well likely) and you lose a gig or your entire account!

        Probably explains why the new format, does away with showing how many orders you have got from a particular gig, eliminates or reduces greedy scumbags killing off their competitors.

        Fiverr is a good place to try if you are prepared to do anything. Service based gigs, do pay, but you are working an hour or more for peanuts, although if you do your homework and pick wisely then a good hourly income can be achieved!

        I used to do service gigs, for Fiverr, but $8 for 2 or more hours work is crap, and not sustainable. But l am or soon will be selling a lot of PLR based products, that are selling quite well, but it takes a lot of effort to set up initially.

        And it took me a year and $600 to collect it all, so not an easy path.

        I have to admit that Graphriver, is similar, spend a month and about $200 on downloading beachy stuff, and l can potentially earn a good income from that as well.


        I stayed with these two, because the traffic is taken care of by them, so it is only the products l need to concern myself with.


        In all honesty, you should list all your assets here, so one of us might offer you a light bulb idea!


        I think that you mentioned that you have a lot of music tracks collecting dust, it might be an ideal fit for one of Graphicrivers other sites that deals with audio?

        But Envato, (Graphicriver) are pretty picky, it took me a good year or so and a lot of hard work and failure to get over the tipping point with them.

        But Fiverr is pretty easy going, and as l have learned their traffic converts quite well, so it could be a good option?


        Far better to make a sale and just download it to them, (a few minutes effort for $4 net profit) than to spend up to an hour doing something?


        Digging your way out of a hole is possible you just have to take it one step at a time!

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        • Profile picture of the author Kay King
          With no WFH coming in since my first 2 clients,
          What did you do after your first two clients (who were related)? You went in immediately and increased your WSO prices.

          Because one client out of the 39 clients I have already written for didn't like my sense of humor in the article I wrote for him. But instead of just asking for a rewrite as other clients have done
          Did the client ASK for humor? Did you argue/justify the work rather than simply start over?

          How many clients have asked for rewrites? I know it gets mentioned often on this forum but in reality a rewrite is extremely rare in my experience.

          I'll tell you one place to start: look at your "sample articles". What do they have in common? They are ALL in first person and ALL about Steven W. You need to have some examples of different styles (not just first-person-me) and about topics that are above and beyond your personal life/work schedule/goals/frustration/opinion.

          You've gotten into the habit of writing articles almost like a journal - and that won't work when writing for clients.

          Constant Content refuses to accept me as an author. I can only imagine why.
          There is a reason and if you asked nicely in an effort to "improve my writing" - perhaps they would offer some insight about the process. Don't know - but worth a shot.

          You could go on freelance sites - submit 50 bids a day to the best job offers you see - and within 2-3 weeks you could have a good rating and testimonials. It's what I've done more than once - and I know other writers who've done the same successfully.

          Before you do that - you need to identify WHAT is going wrong. You have the writing ability - that's not in question. You may not be able to separate yourself from the writing - and if you can't you need to focus on kindle books rather than writing clients.
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          • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
            Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

            What did you do after your first two clients (who were related)? You went in immediately and increased your WSO prices.

            Did the client ASK for humor? Did you argue/justify the work rather than simply start over?

            How many clients have asked for rewrites? I know it gets mentioned often on this forum but in reality a rewrite is extremely rare in my experience.

            I'll tell you one place to start: look at your "sample articles". What do they have in common? They are ALL in first person and ALL about Steven W. You need to have some examples of different styles (not just first-person-me) and about topics that are above and beyond your personal life/work schedule/goals/frustration/opinion.

            You've gotten into the habit of writing articles almost like a journal - and that won't work when writing for clients.

            There is a reason and if you asked nicely in an effort to "improve my writing" - perhaps they would offer some insight about the process. Don't know - but worth a shot.

            You could go on freelance sites - submit 50 bids a day to the best job offers you see - and within 2-3 weeks you could have a good rating and testimonials. It's what I've done more than once - and I know other writers who've done the same successfully.

            Before you do that - you need to identify WHAT is going wrong. You have the writing ability - that's not in question. You may not be able to separate yourself from the writing - and if you can't you need to focus on kindle books rather than writing clients.
            Kay, to quickly answer the question about the humor, the article was "10 Things Men Think Turn Women On (But Don't)" and was supposed to be like in the Letterman top 10 style. So yes, it was absolutely supposed to be humorous. His remarks to me were that he felt my sense of humor was odd. Obviously that warranted him reporting me to Textbrokers and getting my account slammed.

            As for my WFH prices, I have dropped them back down. At least I think I have. I'll have to check the page again.
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            • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
              Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

              Kay, to quickly answer the question about the humor, the article was "10 Things Men Think Turn Women On (But Don't)" and was supposed to be like in the Letterman top 10 style. So yes, it was absolutely supposed to be humorous. His remarks to me were that he felt my sense of humor was odd. .
              Steven; You have got to post that article...now. We can tell you if the guy had a point, and it should make an entertaining read.
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  • Profile picture of the author HN
    Banned
    You are one of the top 30 authors in Ezine. You've got 2800 articles published. Your articles have got 571,100 views. There were 569,100 views by August 18th. So this means you've got 2000 views which is less than 1 view per article since then (in almost 2 months).

    What would I do if I were you? I would pull your articles from Ezine since they are obviously not generating traffic any more. I would partner with a person who could make a much better use of your existing articles. You have already a ton of content which you are wasting. It's a shame not to use it wisely.

    There is no wonder that Ezine doesn't work. Their traffic from Google in January 2011was 6.7 million and now it's only 11,000 visitors. To make the numbers easier to comprehend let's divide by 1000. Let's say you were making $6,700 a month in 2011 and in 2014 your earnings dropped to 11 dollars per month. This is how badly Ezine publishers have suffered over time. I don't understand people who are to this day making claims that article directories still work, unless they consider $11 compared to $6,700 still worth the effort.

    Here's the stats.
    ezinearticles.com - SEMrush's main report for domain

    Also I 've got an Ezine database with complete stats for all authors that have published at least 10 articles, there are 71 thousand such authors. I 've been monitoring this business model for a while.

    Your ratio is 200 views per article. This is not as bad as for example Nick Lorson's, who has 600 articles and only 5300 total views, thus the ratio is less than 9!
    But your ratio is very low compared to John J. Alexander whose ratio is 87,500 !!!
    Or Ann Wong from Singapore whose ratio is 25,700. John has only 22 articles and 1,9 million total views. Ann has 41 articles and 1 million views. However even they have only got 2,000 and 4,500 views respectively since August 2014. I can use the database to find the authors or articles that have the best ratios, which have been syndicated the most or the least. By analyzing this data I can provide you with hints about what kind of articles might perform best. Of course you wouldn't post them to EZ, since I believe it's a waste of time. There are other ways.
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    • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
      Banned
      Originally Posted by HN View Post

      I don't understand people who are still to this day making claims that this article syndication crap works today.
      Yes; we can all see really clearly, every time you post on this subject (between intermittently being banned) that "you don't understand".

      Part of the reason for that is that you continue to confuse "article syndication" with article directory marketing (or you pretend to, anyway, just for the sake of calling it "crap", as above).

      Originally Posted by HN View Post

      I 've been monitoring this business model for a while.
      LOL ... the great irony is that you claim to be monitoring it but don't even understand which "business model" you're referring to! You have really surpassed yourself, with this one.

      All the professional article marketers here have been telling people (for years longer than you've been here - under this username, anyway) that article directory marketing has been stone dead for many years. The difference is that unlike you, they have both the sense and the experience to distinguish between that and "article syndication".

      This thread might interest you, in the extremely unlikely event of your actually being willing to learn something rather than just "trolling away" in your inimitable style. It's from the end of last year. If you actually read it, you'll quickly discover that it's the account of someone with very little experience setting out to make her first $1,500 through article syndication over a period of a few weeks, and actually making about $4,000, instead, during that time: http://www.warriorforum.com/member-c...ndication.html

      The idea that EZA's declining traffic somehow illustrates that "article syndication doesn't work" really lends altogether new meaning to the expression "ludicrous nonsense".

      .
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      • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
        "The difference is that unlike you, they have both the sense and the experience to distinguish between that and "article syndication"

        Alexa, I'm not up to date on this subject. What is the difference between the two?
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        • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
          Banned
          Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

          Alexa, I'm not up to date on this subject. What is the difference between the two?
          Hi Tim - to simplify, article directory marketing was "putting your articles into article directories in an attempt to generate potential customer traffic from the article directory to your own site". This hasn't worked at all, for many years (I don't really think it worked much, even back in 2009, before the "Panda updates", but that's subjective), and was in any case only ever based on a fundamental misunderstanding of "how article directories work" and what benefits they can, and can't, provide to anyone's business.

          It's easy to imagine that you're "getting traffic from an article directory" when in fact what you're doing is bringing about a situation in which potential customers go to an article directory (rather than to your own site) and you get, yourself, only the proportion of them who click through from the article directory to your site, rather than getting them all. In other words it's actually counterproductive and loss-making, to do this. (Fortunately it doesn't now happen any more, worth talking about.)

          For all the reasons explained in this post, no article marketer wants to try to use an article directory in that way.

          The irony of the often-seen "article marketing doesn't work so well these days, since all those Google updates" perspective (I don't, of course, suggest that that's HN's perspective) is that it was all those Google updates which actually enabled article marketers to submit our articles to EZA, effectively, and without running into that former potential problem, by using EZA for the purpose for which it's there (which is, in turn, explained in this post!) In other words, Google directly helped us (as so many of us have been pointing out here, so consistently, for so many years).

          Ezine Articles (for those of us still using it and still benefitting a little from it, among whom I number myself, to be honest) represents perhaps "the last 1% of article marketing". The first 99% of it (described here) is, unsurprisingly, rather more significant and income-producing. EZA is an afterthought.

          To claim (as people very occasionally do, and this is HN's perspective, or so he very openly and unambiguously says, anyway, though he may just be trolling yet again) that the fact that EZA's traffic has seriously declined (and that really is a "fact") illustrates that "article syndication doesn't really work" is barely any more logical, reasonable or perceptive than claiming that the fact that the principle conductor of the London Symphony Orchestra is retiring this year illustrates that CD's don't work any more as a way of playing music. In other words it's just a flatly ridiculous and readily disprovable assertion (albeit that there's arguably a tangentially relevant commonality apparently linking the two different contexts, and it might just be enough to fool a visitor from Mars who doesn't even know what day of the week it is).

          .
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          • Profile picture of the author discrat
            Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

            Hi Tim - to simplify, article directory marketing was "putting your articles into article directories in an attempt to generate potential customer traffic from the article directory to your own site". This hasn't worked at all, for many years (I don't really think it worked much, even back in 2009, before the "Panda updates", but that's subjective), and was in any case only ever based on a fundamental misunderstanding of "how article directories work" and what benefits they can, and can't, provide to anyone's business.

            If Iam not mistaken this is where many people like Wags made a very handsome living pre 2011 ish.

            I think some referred to it as Bum Marketing.(aptly named by Travis Sago)

            It was great while it lasted.

            I just do not see Article Syndication EVER going out of style , though
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            • Profile picture of the author Joe Stewart
              Originally Posted by discrat View Post

              If Iam not mistaken this is where many people like Wags made a very handsome living pre 2011 ish.

              I think some referred to it as Bum Marketing.(aptly named by Travis Sago)
              If I'm not mistaken, the term "Bum Marketing" was referring to people like myself and other brainless individuals who were writing and submitting articles and either direct linking in the resource box to affiliate offers, or sending the traffic to websites with offers, adsense, etc on them instead of building lists that we could market to again and again.

              Arghh!!

              Live and learn.
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          • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
            Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

            Hi Tim...
            The first 99% of it (described here)
            ...
            That's what I was thinking it was, but was a bit confused when I googled "article syndication" and came across Go articles and Ezinearticles as examples. I gotcha now though. These directories are now a very small part of article marketing and rightfully so.
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          • Profile picture of the author HeySal
            Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

            Hi Tim - to simplify, article directory marketing was "putting your articles into article directories in an attempt to generate potential customer traffic from the article directory to your own site". This hasn't worked at all, for many years (I don't really think it worked much, even back in 2009, before the "Panda updates", but that's subjective), and was in any case only ever based on a fundamental misunderstanding of "how article directories work" and what benefits they can, and can't, provide to anyone's business.

            It's easy to imagine that you're "getting traffic from an article directory" when in fact what you're doing is bringing about a situation in which potential customers go to an article directory (rather than to your own site) and you get, yourself, only the proportion of them who click through from the article directory to your site, rather than getting them all. In other words it's actually counterproductive and loss-making, to do this. (Fortunately it doesn't now happen any more, worth talking about.)

            For all the reasons explained in this post, no article marketer wants to try to use an article directory in that way.

            The irony of the often-seen "article marketing doesn't work so well these days, since all those Google updates" perspective (I don't, of course, suggest that that's HN's perspective) is that it was all those Google updates which actually enabled article marketers to submit our articles to EZA, effectively, and without running into that former potential problem, by using EZA for the purpose for which it's there (which is, in turn, explained in this post!) In other words, Google directly helped us (as so many of us have been pointing out here, so consistently, for so many years).

            Ezine Articles (for those of us still using it and still benefitting a little from it, among whom I number myself, to be honest) represents perhaps "the last 1% of article marketing". The first 99% of it (described here) is, unsurprisingly, rather more significant and income-producing. EZA is an afterthought.

            To claim (as people very occasionally do, and this is HN's perspective, or so he very openly and unambiguously says, anyway, though he may just be trolling yet again) that the fact that EZA's traffic has seriously declined (and that really is a "fact") illustrates that "article syndication doesn't really work" is barely any more logical, reasonable or perceptive than claiming that the fact that the principle conductor of the London Symphony Orchestra is retiring this year illustrates that CD's don't work any more as a way of playing music. In other words it's just a flatly ridiculous and readily disprovable assertion (albeit that there's arguably a tangentially relevant commonality apparently linking the two different contexts, and it might just be enough to fool a visitor from Mars who doesn't even know what day of the week it is).

            .
            I still have around 50 or 60 articles on EA. Haven't put anything I've written in there for a few years now........but I actually did get quite a bit of value from them there for a long time. Of course, I posted them on my own site a day or two before on EA - but some very good sites in my niche picked up those articles for their own websites and letters. My niche is way off the usual IM charts, though, and there was little info of the variety I was writing, and I think that gave me an extra value boost from sharing them with other websites. Not at all the same thing as writing in a field inundated with info on the same subjects (IM).
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            • Profile picture of the author HN
              Banned
              Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

              I still have around 50 or 60 articles on EA. Haven't put anything I've written in there for a few years now........but I actually did get quite a bit of value from them there for a long time. Of course, I posted them on my own site a day or two before on EA - but some very good sites in my niche picked up those articles for their own websites and letters. My niche is way off the usual IM charts, though, and there was little info of the variety I was writing, and I think that gave me an extra value boost from sharing them with other websites. Not at all the same thing as writing in a field inundated with info on the same subjects (IM).
              You've got 1,100 views per article. Not bad.

              Originally Posted by Joe Stewart View Post

              I couldn't help but notice this, Steven. At one time I had 849 articles in EZA, but they or I have removed 32 and I now have 817 active. Still, the stats from the articles that are still there show me having 683,949 views.
              Just sayin'. HTH
              Why don't they list you in the authors directory? Did you hide your profile? There is nobody with 817 articles.

              EzineArticles Expert Authors

              There are only 29 authors (13 from USA; 6 of them with photos) that have 65-70 thousand views. You are not there. You are doing a great job flying below my radar.
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              • Profile picture of the author HeySal
                Originally Posted by HN View Post

                You've got 1,100 views per article. Not bad.

                Views isn't what I put them up for. I put them up for the other websites to snag them - they did more good for me on some of those sites than sitting on EA being read.
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                • Profile picture of the author HN
                  Banned
                  Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

                  Views isn't what I put them up for. I put them up for the other websites to snag them - they did more good for me on some of those sites than sitting on EA being read.
                  But of course dear. I am not questioning that at all. I am telling that in order for others to snag them you need someone to read (view) them first.
                  Again: in order to have them syndicated you need someone to stumble upon them first. I don't see how the owners of authority sites can pick up the articles that have a very few or no views at all. Are they all searching for least used articles like myself?

                  As the stats show the traffic is down to 0.2% of what it used to be. So for the same effort that you get 1 website to syndicate your article you could have gotten 580 back in 2011. Don't you agree that it's a significant drop?
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                  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
                    Originally Posted by HN View Post

                    But of course dear. I am not questioning that at all. I am telling that in order for others to snag them you need someone to read (view) them first.
                    Again: in order to have them syndicated you need someone to stumble upon them first. I don't see how the owners of authority sites can pick up the articles that have a very few or no views at all. Are they all searching for least used articles like myself?

                    As the stats show the traffic is down to 0.2% of what it used to be. So for the same effort that you get 1 website to syndicate your article you could have gotten 580 back in 2011. Don't you agree that it's a significant drop?

                    But even $1 is money, so I guess it still works.
                    Oh sure. Yeah, you need readers, lol. I always depended on Google to list my website's copy before EA, though. Eventually, I just started getting requests from some sites to write info for them, or to interview. So I get the same effect just talking now. I much prefer to yack on the phone than to pound keys.

                    All in all, my numbers might not appear very high to some people, but for my particular field, I'm doing real well. We're a pretty small and tight group of people for the most part - and a lot of things are still done offline. Online is literally a "sideline". If you don't meet enough people face to face in the field in this "niche" - you're just out in the cold. Period.
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                            • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                              Why don't they list you in the authors directory? Did you hide your profile? There is nobody with 817 articles.
                              I'm not sure why you're arguing or what point you are trying to make. For many EZA publishers the last thing they wanted was to be known as "a big time EZA publisher". They didn't care about views - didn't write in the IM/MMO niches or market.

                              I have a lot of articles on EZA but you won't find them. They are all under various pen names and each name is associated with a particular niche. My goal was syndication...not directory publishing.

                              I could put an article on EZA in a "pet niche pen name" and that article would appear on several other websites quickly. It was easy syndication and that's the only reason I used EZA. The result for me was much like guest posting on authority blogs is today...links and traffic.

                              I never saw any point to being a top dog on an article directory. I didn't want my articles ranked by EZA - I wanted them on other sites. Outside the IM/MMO niche I found site owners were diligent about including the proper author bios, etc.

                              When I entered a niche I would work to get that pen name associate with that niche...keep a list of sites/owners also in the niche. A quick email or two when a new article was published and the page was quickly picked up by sites in that niche.

                              In my view, EZA stopped working well by 2009 though people kept talking about it long after that.

                              The above isn't an instruction nor an argument. Just another way that EZA was used by many of us who didn't want to be known as an "EZA author" or tracked by our articles there.

                              I don't agree with the idea you can keep recycling the same old EZA articles over and over. Sometimes what you've done in the past needs to remain in the past while you move on.

                              kay
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                              • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
                                Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                                I'm not sure why you're arguing or what point you are trying to make. For many EZA publishers the last thing they wanted was to be known as "a big time EZA publisher". They didn't care about views - didn't write in the IM/MMO niches or market.

                                I have a lot of articles on EZA but you won't find them. They are all under various pen names and each name is associated with a particular niche. My goal was syndication...not directory publishing.

                                I could put an article on EZA in a "pet niche pen name" and that article would appear on several other websites quickly. It was easy syndication and that's the only reason I used EZA. The result for me was much like guest posting on authority blogs is today...links and traffic.

                                I never saw any point to being a top dog on an article directory. I didn't want my articles ranked by EZA - I wanted them on other sites. Outside the IM/MMO niche I found site owners were diligent about including the proper author bios, etc.

                                When I entered a niche I would work to get that pen name associate with that niche...keep a list of sites/owners also in the niche. A quick email or two when a new article was published and the page was quickly picked up by sites in that niche.

                                In my view, EZA stopped working well by 2009 though people kept talking about it long after that.

                                The above isn't an instruction nor an argument. Just another way that EZA was used by many of us who didn't want to be known as an "EZA author" or tracked by our articles there.

                                I don't agree with the idea you can keep recycling the same old EZA articles over and over. Sometimes what you've done in the past needs to remain in the past while you move on.

                                kay
                                Kay, you're absolutely right. Most of my MMO articles are worthless today because times have changed so drastically.

                                Ironically, my best articles view wise are in the health niche. One is on the benefits of Wheat Germ and the other on the dangers of antihistamines. They got about 10,000 views a month. Unfortunately, I never did anything about monetizing them so that's all they're good for, views.

                                If you did a Google search, they were on page 1. Now, they don't appear at all with the demise of EZA. Interesting. It's the same article and just as relevant but because it's at EZA it doesn't even show up in the SERPs.

                                But that's all water under the bridge anyway.

                                Alexa has been a big help to me as far as steps on getting syndication if I ever want to go back into writing for myself again. Right now the article business is slow with the changes at Textbroker so I'm working on other things now.

                                I'll be fine. I'm resilient but most of all, I'm finally calm. Every day isn't the end of the world if I'm not making money. Not having to cash in my life insurance policy made me realize that.

                                Today I put up a sales page for patches for a new synth. I have a demo on Soundcloud and YouTube so we'll see how that goes. I'm not expecting miracles but since I'm just about the only one with a patch library released for this synth, I should at least make a few sales if my demo is good enough. Time will tell.

                                Anyway, thank you and everybody else who finally got me to relax and stop acting like a horse with its head stuck up its backside.

                                With that, I am now off to try to do some promotion of my new patch library. I'm thinking maybe the vendor's section of KVR forum. I don't know what their ad rates are but I'm sure they can't be too bad.
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                                • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                                  Steven -

                                  I do think checking out and discussing the life insurance was beneficial. You know you have that if you need it - you know various ways it can be accessed. You realized you aren't desperate to have money right now.

                                  I was looking at bank accounts this morning and realized how LITTLE money I have spent in the past couple of months. I'm downsizing daily so I'm giving away a lot of stuff and not accumulating more before I move north. I had reduced my expenses before quitting my job because I didn't want to have to scramble for more income and I didn't want to work for a while.

                                  When you look clearly at what you have and what you can access if you need it - it makes it much easier to deal with taking time off or starting something new. You realize you are not as desperate or broke as you thought - you have options and you can choose not to use your options. Life always looks brighter when you have choices you can make.
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    • Profile picture of the author Joe Stewart
      Originally Posted by HN View Post

      You are one of the top 30 authors in Ezine. You've got 2800 articles published. Your articles have got 571,100 views. There were 569,100 views by August 18th. So this means you've got 2000 views which is less than 1 view per article since then (in almost 2 months).
      I couldn't help but notice this, Steven. At one time I had 849 articles in EZA, but they or I have removed 32 and I now have 817 active. Still, the stats from the articles that are still there show me having 683,949 views.

      That tells me that your article titles aren't very compelling. This isn't meant to be negative criticism in any way. My only point is that if you were to re-use those articles I'd definitely look at similar articles in those niches that have a high amount of views and change your titles to something similar.

      Just sayin'. HTH
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  • Profile picture of the author writeaway
    Nietzsche: what doesn't kill me only makes me stronger.

    Keep that fighting spirit alive. Your breakthrough is just around the corner. Visualize it. Believe it. ACT on it.
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  • Profile picture of the author Lucian Lada
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  • Profile picture of the author Rod Cortez
    This thread has been reopened because we have a member here who is asking for help and this thread got hijacked by bickering (those posts have been deleted).

    Now, let's try this again. And this time I only want to see direct responses to the OP's question. If you do not agree with someone's point of view do it in a respectful manner or I am going to delete your post.

    The focus here should be answering Steven's question with what you think will help him out, not getting into it with other members.

    So, let's try this one more time. I WILL be monitoring this thread, so please stay on topic.

    RoD
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  • Profile picture of the author thunderbird
    Again, Steven, if you put together a package of Royalty Free tunes, I'll buy them. I've asked other folks who make videos if they'd be interested. I know you want to be sure that it would be worth your time and effort. Would anyone here buy it?

    You could maybe sell it as a dimesale, starting at a ridiculously low price like $9 so a bunch of people snap it up right away. Just a thought.
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  • Profile picture of the author thunderbird
    Based on soundtracks video-marketers use on their stuff I've watched, I think stuff along the lines of your pop tune category style would appeal to marketers. Cheerful and upbeat stuff.
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  • Profile picture of the author thunderbird
    Several video marketers on the Facebook VideoMakerFX forum have said they'd buy it. (I just noticed how much I used the word "stuff" in the above post, LOL)
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Originally Posted by thunderbird View Post

      Several video marketers on the Facebook VideoMakerFX forum have said they'd buy it. (I just noticed how much I used the word "stuff" in the above post, LOL)
      When you say they would buy "it" could you maybe be a little more specific about what "it" is?

      See, royalty free music itself is a wide niche and everybody has different needs. Some people are looking for cinematic type scores. Others for dance music. Still others are looking for something that fits a sports reel.

      In order for me to make a product package to sell here or anywhere for that matter, I would have to at least have some idea as to what exactly these people are looking for and if there is enough of them to warrant creating just one type of package, such as all pop music or all dance music or all cinematic music.

      And then within each genre there are sub genres. By trying to appeal to everybody (putting out a package of multiple genres) I may not have enough of any one genre to appeal to anybody. By trying to appeal to one genre or sub genre, there may not be enough of a demand to make it worth while.

      I just don't want to spend what would have to take weeks to do in order to put together a package that may make all of one or two sales (if that) because I misread or, worse, didn't understand the market.

      I already made that same mistake with my dance beats pack for people looking to exercise to dance music. Turns out I really didn't research the niche enough to know just who would want this and then, what kind of music they'd even be looking for. And in contacting over 50 sites for JVs and getting not one reply, that suspicion was confirmed. It was a terribly ill thought out plan and I don't want to make that same mistake again.

      I know people want royalty free music. But without knowing specifically what kind they're looking for (as in taking an actual survey of prospective buyers) I'm just taking pot shots in the dark. That isn't the way to create and market a product.

      Believe me, I'd love to sell my music. But my site, which has been online now for over 10 months, has made all of 2 sales. And that's with over 5,000 tracks and every genre covered. I see no evidence that consolidating any of that is going to suddenly make a different. Without that evidence, it's not an efficient use of my time.

      Sure, I could swallow the $20 for the WSO and give it a shot. The money isn't even that big of an issue. But the time it would take to put something like this together without any clue as to how it would do is not a good use of my time. At least not IMO.

      Maybe down the road when I don't have other things on my plate that look my promising, I'll revisit this issue and put something together.

      Right now it doesn't make sense without more knowledge of the market.
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  • Profile picture of the author thunderbird
    I understand, Steven. It's a risk for sure and a serious expenditure of your time, effort, and talent. I have watched a number of marketers' videos, primarily for small businesses and I have noticed a recurring use of certain songs. I linked to the pop section of your site wagsrfm-Pop and so far 8 people have indicated they'd buy a package of your royalty free songs if it were offered in JVZoo or something. I've noticed that a number of marketers use songs from WarriorForum memberTallCoolOne's song package for their videos. Here's an example:
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  • Profile picture of the author thunderbird
    So far, 10 marketers on the VideoMakerFX FB page alone have expressed interest if you put a royalty-free music track package together. A common request is that they be 2-5 minutes long.
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Originally Posted by thunderbird View Post

      So far, 10 marketers on the VideoMakerFX FB page alone have expressed interest if you put a royalty-free music track package together. A common request is that they be 2-5 minutes long.
      Great, but of what kind of music? Also, how do I even reach these people? Will they come here for a WSO?
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      • Profile picture of the author thunderbird
        Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

        Great, but of what kind of music? Also, how do I even reach these people? Will they come here for a WSO?
        I would let them know on on the VideoMakerFX page and other video making sites I'm on. JVZoo -- which I have tended to visit a lot in last several months -- is good at promoting newly listed products and, I guess, WarriorPlus is too. Many successful jvzoo product launches weren't necessarily WSOs, but a lot of marketers still check them out. Some jv with someone such as Todd Gross could help. More and more of members of the VideoMakerFX FB page are interested. I linked to your pop music page (http://wagsrfm.com/pop/), so I think tunes along those lines would work. Also, tunes marketers have used for small business clients have tended to be pop-ish -- catchy, cheerful, uplifting. Sometimes clean-sounding catchy, uplifting metalic songs are favored.
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        • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
          Originally Posted by thunderbird View Post

          I would let them know on on the VideoMakerFX page and other video making sites I'm on. JVZoo -- which I have tended to visit a lot in last several months -- is good at promoting newly listed products and, I guess, WarriorPlus is too. Many successful jvzoo product launches weren't necessarily WSOs, but a lot of marketers still check them out. Some jv with someone such as Todd Gross could help. More and more of members of the VideoMakerFX FB page are interested. I linked to your pop music page (Pop), so I think tunes along those lines would work. Also, tunes marketers have used for small business clients have tended to be pop-ish -- catchy, cheerful, uplifting. Sometimes clean-sounding catchy, uplifting metalic songs are favored.
          Thanks. Any idea as to how many tracks they would want and what they'd be willing to pay for that number of tracks. I have no problem doing this if it's going to be worth my time but if past WSOs here are any indication, the package would have to be at least 100 tracks which will take me some time to compile at 2 minutes per track, which I think was what you said they wanted.

          ** EDIT ** Stupid question time. Is there any possible way you could introduce me to these people so I could chat with them? I am on Facebook so it's not a problem if at all possible.
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          • Profile picture of the author thunderbird
            Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

            Thanks. Any idea as to how many tracks they would want and what they'd be willing to pay for that number of tracks. I have no problem doing this if it's going to be worth my time but if past WSOs here are any indication, the package would have to be at least 100 tracks which will take me some time to compile at 2 minutes per track, which I think was what you said they wanted.

            ** EDIT ** Stupid question time. Is there any possible way you could introduce me to these people so I could chat with them? I am on Facebook so it's not a problem if at all possible.
            I'm not sure how many tracks. Maybe 50? Price could be dimasale, starting at say, $9, jumping to $17 at some point (with plenty of warning that it would rise in price), then at $27? Offer a generous OTO with more tracks (could be ones you've already composted, repackage, perhaps extend, songs?

            You can try https://www.facebook.com/groups/VMFXGroup/. Maybe they'll let you join.They may just want people who've purchased the product (which is good if a little buggy but they will be updating and upgrading it).
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            • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
              Originally Posted by thunderbird View Post

              I'm not sure how many tracks. Maybe 50? Price could be dimasale, starting at say, $9, jumping to $17 at some point (with plenty of warning that it would rise in price), then at $27? Offer a generous OTO with more tracks (could be ones you've already composted, repackage, perhaps extend, songs?

              You can try https://www.facebook.com/groups/VMFXGroup/. Maybe they'll let you join.They may just want people who've purchased the product (which is good if a little buggy but they will be updating and upgrading it).
              Okay, let's do a little math. Say I create 50 2 minute tracks. That's about 50 days of 6 hours of work per day. Let's say between that and getting the sales page together, uploading everything, doing all the admin stuff, it's 60 days and 360 hours of work.

              Now you say 10 people are interested and would probably purchase.

              Doing the dime sale thing and starting the price at $9 and raising it 10 cents after every sale, and assuming all 10 of these people buy, we have...

              $9 + $9.10 + $9.20 + $9.30 + $9.40 + $9.50 + $9.60 + $9.70 + $9.80 + $9.90

              That comes out to $94.50 for 360 hours of work.

              If the tracks were already done I'd say eh, it's a matter of zipping up some files and running a WSO and I make a hundred bucks minus the $20 fee, so 80 bucks.

              But to do all that work for what actually comes to $74.50 is obviously not even close to being worth it.

              If I was still updating the RFM site regularly, I'd take the time to make the 50 tracks anyway, not put them on the site and then run the WSO. But since I really don't have the time to do that as I am working on other things right now (Just got another writing gig for about $150 for 6 articles) I don't see it happening. Not for that kind of money.

              It financially makes zero sense, as much as I'd enjoy working on all that music. I just can't do it at the expense of the activities that are actually making me a decent wage for hours put in.
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              • Profile picture of the author thunderbird
                Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

                But to do all that work for what actually comes to $74.50 is obviously not even close to being worth it.<snip>
                It financially makes zero sense, as much as I'd enjoy working on all that music. I just can't do it at the expense of the activities that are actually making me a decent wage for hours put in.
                I hear you. Steven, that would be correct if every person interested actually commented and if the immediate interest expressed by 10 people in a matter of a day was the total of number of interested people. I can't guarantee anything, for sure. Oh, well...I tried.

                I personally think you should be networking with actual New York and Hollywood filmmakers, aiming for big money (I believe that you're up-to-par with film/TV score composers), but that's just me
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  • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
    Banned
    Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

    Okay, let's do a little math. Say I create 50 2 minute tracks. That's about 50 days of 6 hours of work per day. Let's say between that and getting the sales page together, uploading everything, doing all the admin stuff, it's 60 days and 360 hours of work.

    Now you say 10 people are interested and would probably purchase.

    Doing the dime sale thing and starting the price at $9 and raising it 10 cents after every sale, and assuming all 10 of these people buy, we have...

    $9 + $9.10 + $9.20 + $9.30 + $9.40 + $9.50 + $9.60 + $9.70 + $9.80 + $9.90

    That comes out to $94.50 for 360 hours of work.

    If the tracks were already done I'd say eh, it's a matter of zipping up some files and running a WSO and I make a hundred bucks minus the $20 fee, so 80 bucks.

    But to do all that work for what actually comes to $74.50 is obviously not even close to being worth it.

    If I was still updating the RFM site regularly, I'd take the time to make the 50 tracks anyway, not put them on the site and then run the WSO. But since I really don't have the time to do that as I am working on other things right now (Just got another writing gig for about $150 for 6 articles) I don't see it happening. Not for that kind of money.

    It financially makes zero sense, as much as I'd enjoy working on all that music. I just can't do it at the expense of the activities that are actually making me a decent wage for hours put in.
    Steve,

    Why not use some of the existing tracks that you have on your site and throw together a package or two to dip your feet in? It's not like you are currently making money from those thousands of tracks on your site --> and you may even get a few decent affiliates mailing your offer(s). It should not take you 360 hours to bundle some some stuff up that you have created already. No immediate need to overthink or do more creation..some folks just want some legal tracks, that are decent, that can be had on the cheap.

    I have purchased many $7-$17 dollar track packages that were comprised of a mixed selection of cuts. I just paid $17 bucks for a 60 tune assorted PLR pack a few days ago, and I have paid as much as $20 for 10 tracks. At one point I had a 12 month subscription to download all of the tracks I wanted from a major provider and that cost me $100.

    All of the track packs I have purchased have been a mix of cuts except for a couple which were of a specific genre (and slightly more expensive). The vast majority of packs I have purchased were mixed genre, no doubt about that. Have all of them been PLR? Nope, some have been PLR and others have been straight royalty free licenses.

    What do I use the tracks for? Background music for YouTube video creations, of course! And yes, I own more than a dozen decent video creation tools including VideoMakerFX and Easy Sketch Pro...

    Cheers

    -don
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      Steven - didn't you have this exact conversation a few threads ago?

      I'd swear it's the same almost word for word on both sides!
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Originally Posted by ForumGuru View Post

      Steve,

      Why not use some of the existing tracks that you have on your site and throw together a package or two to dip your feet in? It's not like you are currently making money from those thousands of tracks on your site --> and you may even get a few decent affiliates mailing your offer(s). It should not take you 360 hours to bundle some some stuff up that you have created already. No immediate need to overthink or do more creation..some folks just want some legal tracks, that are decent, that can be had on the cheap.

      I have purchased many $7-$17 dollar track packages that were comprised of a mixed selection of cuts. I just paid $17 bucks for a 60 tune assorted PLR pack a few days ago, and I have paid as much as $20 for 10 tracks. At one point I had a 12 month subscription to download all of the tracks I wanted from a major provider and that cost me $100.

      All of the track packs I have purchased have been a mix of cuts except for a couple which were of a specific genre (and slightly more expensive). The vast majority of packs I have purchased were mixed genre, no doubt about that. Have all of them been PLR? Nope, some have been PLR and others have been straight royalty free licenses.

      What do I use the tracks for? Background music for YouTube video creations, of course! And yes, I own more than a dozen decent video creation tools including VideoMakerFX and Easy Sketch Pro...

      Cheers

      -don
      That I could do. Yeah, I think I have about 50 assorted tracks that are at least about 2 minutes that I could throw in a package and sell here. Won't take long to put together. I will have to make watermarked versions of them so they can hear samples because I doubt people will buy a collection blindly.

      @Kay

      You're right. In my defense, I didn't bring this up and didn't intend to. My fault for allowing myself to get sucked into it again.

      I'm dropping it now and putting all this on the backburner for now.
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