Is Bill Cosby a Serial Rapist ?

Claude Whitacre 9 years ago

Originally Posted by Kurt

Claude is a cereal rapist. Sadly because of this, Trix are no longer for kids.

It's why you like a bowel of corn flakes.

When I read rumors like this, I try to just wait and see if any real proof comes out.

All famous wealthy men get something like this once in a while. It may be true. It may not.

I'm not even reading the account yet.
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MikeAmbrosio 9 years ago

Originally Posted by Kurt

Claude is a cereal rapist. Sadly because of this, Trix are no longer for kids.

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MikeAmbrosio

9 years ago

Didn't we have - in another thread - a short discussion about how "reliable" the Daily Mail is?

As to whether the rumors are true or not - I have no clue and neither does anyone else in the WF, I would suspect. That's why they're called rumors...

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seasoned

9 years ago

Originally Posted by MikeAmbrosio

Didn't we have - in another thread - a short discussion about how "reliable" the Daily Mail is?

As to whether the rumors are true or not - I have no clue and neither does anyone else in the WF, I would suspect. That's why they're called rumors...

Well, I heard something about this today on the radio. Maybe 40-60% here may believe it if it is HERE: Another Woman Comes Forward To Accuse Bill Cosby Of Rape Apparently, it goes back to at least 2006.

Cosby, accuser resolve sex suit A former Temple employee had alleged assault, which the star denied. No details of the outcome were released. - Philly.com

Bill Cosby raped me. Why did it take 30 years for people to believe my story? - The Washington Post

SNOPES just about claims the whole thing is based SOLELY on claims made by a jealous comedian last month and then, THEN, *****THEN***** they add:

Indeed, accusations against Cosby regarding sexual misconduct have surfaced multiple times across the years. The first one broke into the news in early 2005 when Andrea Constand, director of operations for Temple University's women's basketball team (who had since returned to Toronto), reported to Canadian authorities that after she visited Cosby at his home in 2004 to discuss career advice, he gave her some "herbal" pills to help her overcome her anxiety and then "touched her breasts and vaginal area, rubbed his penis against her hand, and digitally penetrated" her. The district attorney of Montgomery County, Pennsylvania (Cosby's home area), eventually announced he would not bring criminal charges against Cosby due to a lack of evidence; but Constand pursued a civil lawsuit against the comedian, who maintained that he merely gave Constand some Benadryl tablets and that any subsequent sexual contact between them was consensual:
Read more at snopes.com: Bill Cosby Rape Controversy

So he apparently ADMITTED that he did what she said and claimed it was consensual though that doesn't jive with a nice man giving her stuff like that to relax her. HER story makes more sense.

As for why his video went viral? *****DUH*****! The comedian might have been funny, said this, suggested people google him, and found 2.8 MILLION references and sees things like:

http://www.deathandtaxesmag.com/2302...ike-a-monster/

To be honest, it seems only about 753,000 may be 100% separate from the latest accusation though. And here is a timeline:

http://www.theroot.com/articles/cult...cusations.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/15/bu...wirl.html?_r=0

Steve

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Samuelgort Banned 9 years ago

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HeySal

9 years ago

In a world where people will do anything for a buck, accusations like this have to be taken with a grain of salt no matter what the reputation of the media the "news" is seen in. I've seen slander campaigns against people for the sole purpose of stopping them from having an impact on a cause they were behind. When you destroy a person, you can also destroy the cause they align with if you do it right.

I don't really find the accusations against Cosby of any interest to me. I don't know any of the people involved in the situation.

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Longshot1

9 years ago

I hope not. This is the dude who used to teach good morals every week on "Fat Albert."

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MikeAmbrosio

9 years ago

Well, I am kind of with Sal on this one. It doesn't affect me in any way. I don't know Bill Cosby or Andrea Constand. Maybe something happened, maybe not.

All I know is over the years it has been just as likely for someone to FEIGN some assault by a celebrity for financial gain as it is for an assault to actually happen - so it's hard to tell.

In the Snopes story you quoted for example...say for the sake of argument that it actually was Benadryl he gave her. I don't know about you, but in all the years I have taken Benadryl, and all of the people I know who have taken it, I never once had an experience (or know anyone who has) where I felt "out of it" enough to realize someone was doing something to me I didn't like, yet could not resist or stop it.

If it was Bendryl. If Cosby admitted to giving her that, then maybe it wasn't Benadryl but something like Rohypnol...

Who knows...

The only two who know for sure are the two in this story...

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seasoned

9 years ago

Originally Posted by MikeAmbrosio

Well, I am kind of with Sal on this one. It doesn't affect me in any way. I don't know Bill Cosby or Andrea Constand. Maybe something happened, maybe not.

All I know is over the years it has been just as likely for someone to FEIGN some assault by a celebrity for financial gain as it is for an assault to actually happen - so it's hard to tell.

In the Snopes story you quoted for example...say for the sake of argument that it actually was Benadryl he gave her. I don't know about you, but in all the years I have taken Benadryl, and all of the people I know who have taken it, I never once had an experience (or know anyone who has) where I felt "out of it" enough to realize someone was doing something to me I didn't like, yet could not resist or stop it.

If it was Bendryl. If Cosby admitted to giving her that, then maybe it wasn't Benadryl but something like Rohypnol...

Who knows...

The only two who know for sure are the two in this story...

Banadryl doesn't affect ME either. But my metabolism is apparently VERY odd. ASPIRIN, and similar things don't affect my perception of pain AT ALL. Cough suppressors, cold medications and all OTC sleep medicines in the US apparently don't affect me at all.

******HOWEVER****** some people SWEAR by it, etc.... LIKE: Benadryl Drug and Medication User Reviews on RxList

SO, WHO KNOWS? If someone saw benadryl in her system, it would be hard to charge anyone with anything, NO crime was broken AT ALL. I believe it is a FELONY to give someone Rohypnol though. He could get locked up. So that is a good reason to use the OTC drug.

Steve

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JosephCaf Banned 9 years ago

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- sbucciarel Banned 9 years ago
  
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TLTheLiberator

9 years ago

There's a lot of smoke there...

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WalkingCarpet

Banned 9 years ago

Life is all about disappointments.

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sbucciarel

Banned 9 years ago

Bill Cosby raped me. Why did it take 30 years for people to believe my story? - The Washington Post

^^^^^^^^^^
This one seems to be complicit in her own continued assault, since she chose to continue to see him "to take advantage of obvious career enhancement opportunities that being a "friend" of Cosby" could have.

That being said, if her allegations are true, it was indeed sexual assault and there are and have been for years, just too many reports for their to be no substance. He did, in fact, settle one case out of court with cold hard cash ... and to me, that doesn't indicate innocence.

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MikeAmbrosio

9 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

Bill Cosby raped me. Why did it take 30 years for people to believe my story? - The Washington Post

^^^^^^^^^^
This one seems to be complicit in her own continued assault, since she chose to continue to see him "to take advantage of obvious career enhancement opportunities that being a "friend" of Cosby" could have.

That being said, if her allegations are true, it was indeed sexual assault and there are and have been for years, just too many reports for their to be no substance. He did, in fact, settle one case out of court with cold hard cash ... and to me, that doesn't indicate innocence.

True, but it doesn't necessarily indicate guilt either. Sometimes lawyers advise their high profile clients to settle simply to make it go away.

Seen that before as well.

Not defending Cosby here, since I haven't read any of the links. Just my opinion based on these types of cases that have gone on for years.

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sbucciarel

Banned 9 years ago

Originally Posted by MikeAmbrosio

True, but it doesn't necessarily indicate guilt either. Sometimes lawyers advise their high profile clients to settle simply to make it go away.

Seen that before as well.

Not defending Cosby here, since I haven't read any of the links. Just my opinion based on these types of cases that have gone on for years.

I've read a lot of stories for years now. This newest one is very similar to the other one I cited.

"The next thing I remember was coming to on his couch while being undressed," Tarshis wrote. "I thought I was being clever when I told him I had an infection and he would catch it and his wife would know he had sex with someone. But he just found another orifice to use. I was sickened by what was happening to me and shocked that this man I had idolized was now raping me. Of course I told no one."

Tarshis wrote that during a second alleged attack, the pair had been drinking while attending an event at a music theater. She began to feel weak, and "the next thing I remember was waking up in his bed back at the Sherry, naked," Tarshis wrote.

You see ... this is what I have a problem with. I think he's a rapist but I think the women "come back for more" because being in his limelight is good for their careers .... something like what a prostitute does.

I was sickened by what was happening to me and shocked that this man I had idolized was now raping me. Of course I told no one."

Tarshis wrote that during a second alleged attack

She was sickened about what he did ... naturally, she didn't tell a soul and then went back to risk yet another attack? Geeesh. Sorry, but if your safety and morals aren't more important than your career, you're on your own as far as I'm concerned. I don't have the empathy that I would if they had been so appalled that they never saw him again or if they had reported the crime to the police.

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MikeAmbrosio

9 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

I've read a lot of stories for years now. This newest one is very similar to the other one I cited.

You see ... this is what I have a problem with. I think he's a rapist but I think the women "come back for more" because being in his limelight is good for their careers .... something like what a prostitute does.

She was sickened about what he did ... naturally, she didn't tell a soul and then went back to risk yet another attack? Geeesh. Sorry, but if your safety and morals aren't more important than your career, you're on your own as far as I'm concerned. I don't have the empathy that I would if they had been so appalled that they never saw him again or if they had reported the crime to the police.

And this is where I have the issue as well. Was she sickened by what happened (but kept going back anyway)? Or did she do everything willingly with expectations (hence the repeatedly going back) - and when those expectations were not met it BECAME sickening, and rape?

THAT'S what we'll never know for sure in this type of case.

However, consensual or not, Cosby is at the least a cheating liar and at worst a serial rapist. The first is a personal matter between him and his wife. The second is a legal issue - which is why it needs to be proven.

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seasoned

9 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

Bill Cosby raped me. Why did it take 30 years for people to believe my story? - The Washington Post

^^^^^^^^^^
This one seems to be complicit in her own continued assault, since she chose to continue to see him "to take advantage of obvious career enhancement opportunities that being a "friend" of Cosby" could have.

That being said, if her allegations are true, it was indeed sexual assault and there are and have been for years, just too many reports for their to be no substance. He did, in fact, settle one case out of court with cold hard cash ... and to me, that doesn't indicate innocence.

There are a LOT of people, primarily women, that see that as a NEED AND, seeing it as a need, consider this not as her being complicit, but him taking advantage of a position of authority. You USUALLY hear about it when it is employee vs. higher ups, but I think it does go to this sort of thing as well.

As for settling out of court, that is kind of difficult. GENERALLY payment is done with a check, as it can prove payment, and the person paid has to sign an agreement to drop the case. There are a lot of reasons why he may have paid, but yeah, I think most will take it as an admission of guilt.

Steve

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Young Financier

9 years ago

I believe this is some crap cooked up by the liberal media to crucify Mr. Cosby for not towing the "negro script." When black men like Bill Cosby and other black conservatives start preaching the message of hard work, no excuses, quit blaming white people, and doing for self, white liberals and other blacks viciously attack them. That is exactly what I believe Mr. Cosby is experiencing. It's nothing to get a few women to make false rape allegations. It's a well known fact that a lot of men are in prison today because of a woman who lied about being raped after having consensual sex which she later regretted.

Funny how the liberal media hold Dr. King up as a hero but his sexual behavior was well known. How come he wasn't crucified? Because he preached the message of victimology to blacks.

And before I'm accused of being racist, just know that I'm a black male myself.

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whateverpedia

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Young Financier

I believe this is some crap cooked up by the liberal media to crucify Mr. Cosby for not towing the "negro script."

LOL.

The Daily Mail - liberal media! ROFL.

The Daily Mail is most definitely on the right, if not the far right side of the spectrum.

Facts? Who needs 'em when you have prejudices to rely on.

From your rant it looks like even FoxNews may be a bit too "left" for you.

ROFL, ROFL, ROFL.

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Young Financier

9 years ago

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Richard Van

9 years ago

YF.

Did you used to be here before?

You sound like a chap that had his photo as his avatar, in a suit and something about billionaire in there. Sorry you just seem familiar.

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Midnight Oil

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

TV Land just dropped the Cosby Show reruns.

Still on BET's Centric channel as of last night. That will probably disappear from the schedule by the end of the week.

I imagine dvd sales will increase as that will eventually be the only way to see the show for some time, if ever.

Celebrity scandals rarely register on my radar, but this is very disappointing. He's been a fixture in my family as long as I've been alive. I grew up listening to all of my dad's Cosby comedy albums and watching The Bill Cosby Show and Fat Albert. My kids grew up on The Cosby Show. I've long considered it the last of the great family sitcoms. My grandkids are/were growing up on it.

What a way to end an incredible career. Such a genius. Such an idiot. Such a shame.

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TimPhelan

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Midnight Oil

Celebrity scandals rarely register on my radar, but this is very disappointing. He's been a fixture in my family as long as I've been alive. I grew up listening to all of my dad's Cosby comedy albums and watching The Bill Cosby Show and Fat Albert. My kids grew up on The Cosby Show. I've long considered it the last of the great family sitcoms. My grandkids are/were growing up on it.

What a way to end an incredible career. Such a genius. Such an idiot. Such a shame.

This is how I feel about it. I'm a bit of a progressive, or liberal, and I can tell you I am not enjoying seeing this happen to one of my favorite comedians. The first comedy album I ever had was a Bill Cosby album and I played that one to death. This is all very sad to me.

By the way, to suggest this is the fault of liberal media is ludicrous and delusional.

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Steven Wagenheim

9 years ago

I don't know what's sadder. That this may actually be true about somebody who I grew up with or that it doesn't surprise me.

In fact, with all I've seen in life, nothing surprises me anymore.

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Claude Whitacre

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

I don't know what's sadder. That this may actually be true about somebody who I grew up with or that it doesn't surprise me.

In fact, with all I've seen in life, nothing surprises me anymore.

It surprises me that you said that.

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Claude Whitacre

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Midnight Oil

What a way to end an incredible career. Such a genius. Such an idiot. Such a shame.

Pretty well said. These stars become mythic. And our image of them is shattered.

It reminds me of this quote from Lincoln.

"Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power".

It's like when I found out Liberace was gay....who knew?

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discrat

9 years ago

I know many of you may think I am trying to be funny.

But the fact of the matter is I will NEVER be able to look at Fat Albert the same; being the fan I was as a kid

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TimPhelan

9 years ago

From the pound cake speech:

I wanted a piece of pound cake just as bad as anybody else. And I looked at it and I had no money. And something called parenting said if I get caught with it you're going to embarrass your mother. Not you're going to get your butt kicked. No. You're going to embarrass your mother. You're going to embarrass your family.

If all the allegations are true, and it seems like it is getting harder and harder to believe otherwise, this particular part of the speech is very ironic. Where was that thing called parenting when he was taking advantage of these young women? Smh.

It's like when I found out Liberace was gay....who knew?

Wait a minute! What!?

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whateverpedia 9 years ago

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

It's like when I found out Liberace was gay...

You're kidding.

I thought Liberace taught Chuck Norris everything he knows.
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- Steven Wagenheim 9 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by whateverpedia
  
  You're kidding.
  
  I thought Liberace taught Chuck Norris everything he knows.
  
  You tell 'em. And he played one bad ass dude on Batman.
  
  Batman and the Player Piano Paper Puncher -...
  
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- Claude Whitacre 9 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by whateverpedia
  
  You're kidding.
  
  I thought Liberace taught Chuck Norris everything he knows.
  
  I really really tried to find a gay Chuck Norris joke. I couldn't find a good one.
  
  As a reward for bringing up Chuck Norris..my favorite Chuck Norris joke.
  
  Chuck Norris doesn't read books. He stares them down until he gets the information he wants.
  
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  Midnight Oil 9 years ago
  
  New Cosby Accuser Has Long Criminal History, Including Fraud | TMZ.com
  
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Dan Riffle

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Richard Van

YF.

Did you used to be here before?

You sound like a chap that had his photo as his avatar, in a suit and something about billionaire in there. Sorry you just seem familiar.

Yep, you're spot on, ol' chap.

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sbucciarel

Banned 9 years ago

Originally Posted by Young Financier

Funny how the liberal media hold Dr. King up as a hero but his sexual behavior was well known. How come he wasn't crucified? Because he preached the message of victimology to blacks

uhhh ... because rape and just having sex are not the same thing ... just a guess.
But bashing liberals in the thread will just get your posts deleted or the thread shut down, as bipartisan political discussions are not allowed.

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seasoned 9 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

But bashing liberals in the thread will just get your posts deleted or the thread shut down, as bipartisan political discussions are not allowed.

INTERESTING! I said the SAME thing, and was publicly reprimanded for saying that! I thought it was a "secret"!

Steve
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whateverpedia 9 years ago

Originally Posted by Young Financier

<dribble snipped>

Judging by your post here...

http://www.warriorforum.com/off-topi...ml#post9677922

FoxNews is actually w-a-y too "bolshie" for you.
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sbucciarel Banned 9 years ago

Originally Posted by Young Financier

I believe this is some crap cooked up by the liberal media to crucify Mr. Cosby for not towing the "negro script."

Here's a more acceptable "to you" point of view as depicted by the not so liberal media.

Allen West joined Hannity to discuss "Bill Cosby Wanting Americans To Be More Like Muslims!" - Allen West Republic

Bill Cosby's pro-Muslim post causes a stir | On Air Videos | Fox News

Allen West joined Hannity to discuss "Bill Cosby Wanting Americans To Be More Like Muslims!" - Allen West Republic

http://video.foxnews.com/v/389614787800

http://radio.foxnews.com/2014/11/17/...against-cosby/

Funny ... the not so liberal Fox News doesn't seem to support their brother Bill Cosby
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TLTheLiberator

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Young Financier

I believe this is some crap cooked up by the liberal media to crucify Mr. Cosby for not towing the "negro script." When black men like Bill Cosby and other black conservatives start preaching the message of hard work, no excuses, quit blaming white people, and doing for self, white liberals and other blacks viciously attack them. That is exactly what I believe Mr. Cosby is experiencing. It's nothing to get a few women to make false rape allegations. It's a well known fact that a lot of men are in prison today because of a woman who lied about being raped after having consensual sex which she later regretted.

Funny how the liberal media hold Dr. King up as a hero but his sexual behavior was well known. How come he wasn't crucified? Because he preached the message of victimology to blacks.

And before I'm accused of being racist, just know that I'm a black male myself.

I'm black also and...

It is interesting that the public allegations began after Mr. Cosby went off the reservation - so to speak in 2004 with the "Pound Cake" speech.

According to CNN the public allegations began in 2005.

Rape allegations won't go away for Bill Cosby - CNN.com

And...

The internet being how it is, is IMHO, responsible for this latest round of bad pub for the Coz.

Mr. C. is promoting a new book it and he asked the internet to meme him. Of course if there's any negativity out there on a public person - presto, old allegations will pop up and then the media outlets will have to ask questions regarding the allegations even if that person only wants to promote a book.

IMHO, this is what has happened to Mr. Cosby.

You said this above about Dr. King...

"Because he preached the message of victimology to blacks."

I say this...

It was a much different time in America than today when it was necessary to get rid of public discrimination and obtain our right to vote in all parts of the country.

I think you're young enough to have missed all that "fun" and with your mindset you can't begin to appreciate what Dr. King and those folks went through and accomplished - but you should.

At 57 and being raised in the north, I missed it also.

IMHO, If he had lived I think Dr. King would have evolved into the type of leader you would appreciate today.

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seasoned

9 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

I'm black also and...

It is interesting that the public allegations began after Mr. Cosby went off the reservation - so to speak in 2004 with the "Pound Cake" speech.

According to CNN the public allegations began in 2005.

Rape allegations won't go away for Bill Cosby - CNN.com

And...

The internet being how it is, is IMHO, responsible for this latest round of bad pub for the Coz.

Mr. C. is promoting a new book it and he asked the internet to meme him. Of course if there's any negativity out there on a public person - presto, old allegations will pop up and then the media outlets will have to ask questions regarding the allegations even if that person only wants to promote a book.

IMHO, this is what has happened to Mr. Cosby.

You said this above about Dr. King...

"Because he preached the message of victimology to blacks."

I say this...

It was a much different time in America than today when it was necessary to get rid of public discrimination and obtain our right to vote in all parts of the country.

I think you're young enough to have missed all that "fun" and with your mindset you can't begin to appreciate what Dr. King and those folks went through and accomplished - but you should.

At 57 and being raised in the north, I missed it also.

IMHO, If he had lived I think Dr. King would have evolved into the type of leader you would appreciate today.

Are you saying that you LIKED the "pound cake" speech? THAT was a pretty conservative speech! CONSERVATIVES wouldn't have said anything against that speech! I figured you would HATE such a thing! And YEAH, MLK preached that people should be judged by the content of their CHARACTER! The pound cake speech is simply saying OK, you have all this facility! BUILD THE CHARACTER, and USE IT!

Steve

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Richard Van 9 years ago

It's getting a bit like YouTube in here.

Yesterday there was a thread on avoiding being poor that didn't mention race and that became a racial discussion. This time we have a well known man (Who I used to love in the Cosby show in my earlier days) with rape allegations and it's going down that route too.

No problem with that, it's kept civil here which is more than I can begin to say for YT so this isn't a criticism. It just reminded me that yesterday I was watching a gardening video about making a better compost and when I scrolled down it had taken a mere 3 comments for it to descend into a race war. I actually wonder sometimes if it's white people making the anti white comments and vice versa just to troll things.

So Kudos to the bar area for keeping these things clean and in the spirit of getting off topic in the off topic forum.
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- TimPhelan 9 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Richard Van
  
  Yesterday there was a thread on avoiding being poor that didn't mention race and that became a racial discussion.
  
  Richard, that thread was meant to be about race. Look at post #18 by the OP who complained that people weren't reading the article and then brought up the race issue, which was also a huge part of the article. The subject of avoiding poverty by doing those three things listed is an interesting subject, but that was only a part of the reason that thread was started.
  
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TLTheLiberator

9 years ago

Originally Posted by seasoned

Are you saying that you LIKED the "pound cake" speech? THAT was a pretty conservative speech! CONSERVATIVES wouldn't have said anything against that speech! I figured you would HATE such a thing! And YEAH, MLK preached that people should be judged by the content of their CHARACTER! The pound cake speech is simply saying OK, you have all this facility! BUILD THE CHARACTER, and USE IT!

Steve

I don't have a big problem with most of what he said but I do have a big problem with how he said it.

IMHO it was an ugly and facetious speech that lacked context. And since he was at the NAACP he conveniently forgot to mention their shortcomings in leadership.

But sorry, I don't think personal responsibility is only a conservative trait. You folks just like to harp on it a lot more than others.

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seasoned

9 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

I don't have a big problem with most of what he said but I do have a big problem with how he said it.

IMHO it was an ugly and facetious speech that lacked context. And since he was at the NAACP he conveniently forgot to mention their shortcomings in leadership.

But sorry, I don't think personal responsibility is only a conservative trait. You folks just like to harp on it a lot more than others.

We must have watched different ones, or different parts. As for mentioning leadership, I could point out that some ARE discussing it. Michael nutter, in that video I posted in another thread talks about it.

Even COSBY said he was going to talk to the kid about it until he found the mother and father were the same way. A lot of "leaders" are the SAME way.

As for the trait being more common? I could point out SO much here, from you, in the media, etc... to prove it isn't. We discuss it SO much.

Steve

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discrat

9 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

At 57 and being raised in the north, I missed it also.

IMHO, If he had lived I think Dr. King would have evolved into the type of leader you would appreciate today.

57 ?

Your 57 ?

Not that that is old I just though you were in your thirties or so.

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Richard Van 9 years ago

Originally Posted by discrat

57 ?

Your 57 ?

Not that that is old I just though you were in your thirties or so.

Dig upwards man. Dig upwards....
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TLTheLiberator 9 years ago

Originally Posted by discrat

57 ?

Your 57 ?

Not that that is old I just though you were in your thirties or so.

I've been with the Lakers since 1970!
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- TimPhelan 9 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator
  
  I've been with the Lakers since 1970!
  
  My condolences.
  
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- discrat 9 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator
  
  I've been with the Lakers since 1970!
  
  Why does it always come back to this
  
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  Claude Whitacre 9 years ago
  
  I liked the Poundcake speech, and I'm not conservative.
  
  Anyway. Here s what I know about Bill Cosby.
  
  His comedy is the stuff of legend. His show in 1983 still makes my ribs hurt from laughing so hard. He very recently had a special..and he still has it.
  
  Here's his 1983 special;
  
  Bill Cosby Himself (1983) - YouTube
  
  The other stuff? Who knows.
  
  We know he cheated on his wife. So has about 50% of the married men out there.
  
  The rest doesn't affect how I view his comedy.
  
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TimPhelan

9 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

IMHO, If he had lived I think Dr. King would have evolved into the type of leader you would appreciate today.

I have to disagree with you on that one TL. MLK was not conservative at all and was in fact extremely progressive. He supported the government getting involved to help solve social problems, supported income redistribution ( he even was in favor of a minimum income ), he was against the Vietnam war, etc... I can't imagine him evolving into anything else besides what he was.

I don't think personal responsibility is only a conservative trait.

I agree completely with this. Bill Cosby is another who is obviously not a conservative, but has been very outspoken about personal responsibility, which isn't just a conservative value.

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TLTheLiberator

9 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

I have to disagree with you on that one TL. MLK was not conservative at all and was in fact extremely progressive. He supported the government getting involved to help solve social problems, supported income redistribution ( he even was in favor of a minimum income ), he was against the Vietnam war, etc... I can't imagine him evolving into anything else besides what he was.

I agree completely with this. Bill Cosby is another who is obviously not a conservative, but has been very outspoken about personal responsibility, which isn't just a conservative value.

I wasn't saying that Dr. King would have evolved into anything close to a modern day conservative but I am saying that - he would have come to the understanding that stuff like minimum income wasn't going anywhere and...

...he would have evolved into the type of leader who understood the middle ground between personal responsibility and the responsibilities of the society and one even Young Financier could appreciate.

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TimPhelan

9 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

...he would have evolved into the type of leader who understood the middle ground between personal responsibility and the responsibilities of the society and one even Young Financier could appreciate.

So he would be more like our current President, whom Young Financier is not a big fan of from what I recall?

I still disagree though. I just don't see MLK evolving much towards the middle ground. He already understood the middle ground pretty well.

Recently I asked my GF's dad, who is 87 and who personally knew MLK, what he thought about what was going on in Ferguson during the days after the killing of Michael Brown. He said, "Well, the people are doing what they need to do". I have no doubt in my mind that if MLK was alive today he would be in Ferguson protesting along with the others and be vilified for it by many of the same who vilify our current President at every opportunity.

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Claude Whitacre

9 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

I have no doubt in my mind that if MLK was alive today he would be in Ferguson protesting along with the others and be vilified for it by many of the same who vilify our current President at every opportunity.

And he would have probably been a major factor in keeping the peace.

To the mods; Please don't delete this thread. Close it if you want. But there is some good stuff here.

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TimPhelan

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

And he would have probably been a major factor in keeping the peace.

Absolutely! He was all for nonviolent protest: "Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that." "Nonviolence is a powerful and just weapon. which cuts without wounding and ennobles the man who wields it. It is a sword that heals." We really could use him in the coming days I think.

He also said this: "A riot is the language of the unheard."

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Midnight Oil

9 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

He also said this: "A riot is the language of the unheard."

Hopefully you and anyone else reading this understands that he was not advocating rioting. It was a cautionary statement.

In context:

Now I wanted to say something about the fact that we have lived over these last two or three summers with agony and we have seen our cities going up in flames. And I would be the first to say that I am still committed to militant, powerful, massive, non*-violence as the most potent weapon in grappling with the problem from a direct action point of view. I'm absolutely convinced that a riot merely intensifies the fears of the white community while relieving the guilt. And I feel that we must always work with an effective, powerful weapon and method that brings about tangible results. But it is not enough for me to stand before you tonight and condemn riots. It would be morally irresponsible for me to do that without, at the same time, condemning the contingent, intolerable conditions that exist in our society. These conditions are the things that cause individuals to feel that they have no other alternative than to engage in violent rebellions to get attention. And I must say tonight that a riot is the language of the unheard. And what is it America has failed to hear? It has failed to hear that the plight of the negro poor has worsened over the last twelve or fifteen years. It has failed to hear that the promises of freedom and justice have not been met. And it has failed to hear that large segments of white society are more concerned about tranquility and the status quo than about justice and humanity.

"The Other America"
Speech by
Rev. Martin Luther King, Jr.
Grosse Pointe High School - March 14, 1968

The M.L. King Speech

MIKE WALLACE: There's an increasingly vocal minority who disagree totally with your tactics, Dr. King.

KING: There's no doubt about that. I will agree that there is a group in the Negro community advocating violence now. I happen to feel that this group represents a numerical minority. Surveys have revealed this. The vast majority of Negroes still feel that the best way to deal with the dilemma that we face in this country is through non-violent resistance, and I don't think this vocal group will be able to make a real dent in the Negro community in terms of swaying 22 million Negroes to this particular point of view. And I contend that the cry of "black power" is, at bottom, a reaction to the reluctance of white power to make the kind of changes necessary to make justice a reality for the Negro. I think that we've got to see that a riot is the language of the unheard. And, what is it that America has failed to hear? It has failed to hear that the economic plight of the Negro poor has worsened over the last few years.

WALLACE: How many summers like this do you imagine that we can expect?

KING: Well, I would say this: we don't have long. The mood of the Negro community now is one of urgency, one of saying that we aren't going to wait. That we've got to have our freedom. We've waited too long. So that I would say that every summer we're going to have this kind of vigorous protest. My hope is that it will be non-violent. I would hope that we can avoid riots because riots are self-defeating and socially destructive. I would hope that we can avoid riots, but that we would be as militant and as determined next summer and through the winter as we have been this summer. And I think the answer about how long it will take will depend on the federal government, on the city halls of our various cities, and on White America to a large extent. This is where we are at this point, and I think White America will determine how long it will be and which way we go in the future.

MLK: A riot is the language of the unheard - CBS News

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TimPhelan

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Midnight Oil

Hopefully you and anyone else reading this understands that he was not advocating rioting. It was a cautionary statement.

Of course. You saw my two quotes before that didn't you?

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Midnight Oil

9 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

Of course. You saw my two quotes before that didn't you?

I did, and I should have worded that differently. My apologies. I think it's just the way it was left dangling there. Without clarification it reads like he was advocating riots as an option.

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TimPhelan

9 years ago

Another alleged victim speaks out. This one a former "super model".

Janice Dickinson Alleges That She Was 'Sexually Assaulted' By Bill Cosby

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discrat 9 years ago

Janice on ET tonight said she woke up in a daze and found something sticky between her legs and unfortunately it was not jello pudding
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Steven Wagenheim

9 years ago

Well, there's too much smoke here for there not to be a fire somewhere. If proven true, while the statute of limitations has run out on these crimes, this will absolutely destroy his reputation and completely alter how many people feel about him.

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discrat 9 years ago

Steven,
I will go one step further and say that the Bill Cosby Brand is severely and
(more than likely ) permanently damaged . i.e. he's done. he's through, finished. He should just take his money and just live off the interest and his investments.

Cause no matter what he does or says in the future there will ALWAYS be harsh suspicion towards this Man and his apparent double Life. No one will want to associate with him.
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whateverpedia

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

If proven true, while the statute of limitations has run out on these crimes,

Is there a statute of limitations on these type of crimes?

I say this because of the recent jailing of Rolf Harris in the UK. Apparently the offences he committed all took place many years ago.

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Steven Wagenheim

9 years ago

Originally Posted by whateverpedia

Is there a statute of limitations on these type of crimes?

I say this because of the recent jailing of Rolf Harris in the UK. Apparently the offences he committed all took place many years ago.

In the US, rape is 7 years. Unless any of these happened in the last 7 years, there's nothing that can be done. Only murder has no statute of limitations in the US.

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Richard Van

9 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

Richard, that thread was meant to be about race. Look at post #18 by the OP who complained that people weren't reading the article and then brought up the race issue, which was also a huge part of the article.

Tim,

Yes you're right. I didn't mean anything by my comment. More thinking out loud as it mildly reminded me of YT. As I said though it doesn't bother me here because it's always kept civil if it does go that route and I still enjoy reading the threads anyway.

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Alexa Smith

Banned 9 years ago

Originally Posted by whateverpedia

I say this because of the recent jailing of Rolf Harris in the UK. Apparently the offences he committed all took place many years ago.

This is true. Many decades ago. I'm (obviously) not defending what he did, but there are very few (if any) other European countries which would have sent him to prison for such a long time at the age of 84, and some in which judges wouldn't even have been allowed to, for offenses from so long ago.

.

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seasoned

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Alexa Smith

This is true. Many decades ago. I'm (obviously) not defending what he did, but there are very few (if any) European countries which would have sent him to prison for such a long time at the age of 84, and some in which judges wouldn't even have been allowed to, for offenses from so long ago.

.

WOW! So if you are 80+, you get a pass, and if you hide a body well enough, you are free? I wonder what the average time to find a dead body is. If the disappearance is smooth enough, and you hide it well enough, I bet you can getaway with it. There ARE a lot of murders that are solved merely because someone happens across the body, or somebody gets suspicious and instigates some search. Look at the zodiak killer! 37 KNOWN murders over about FIFTY years! He literally TAUNTED the police! He sent them letters talking of his exploits, telling them of murders, etc.... His case has several times been marked INACTIVE which means they aren't trying to solve it.

Zodiac Killer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Because of that kind of problem, someone in the US figured that murders shouldn't have a limit. Many OTHER crimes do. AND, while many are more lenient with minors and seniors, it really doesn't make any sense.

Steve

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Alexa Smith Banned 9 years ago

Originally Posted by seasoned

WOW! So if you are 80+, you get a pass, and if you hide a body well enough, you are free? I wonder what the average time to find a dead body is.

Nobody said anything about murder, Steve.

In general, European Union countries don't send people in their 80's to prison for offenses committed many decades ago, if they're clearly no longer a danger to anyone. The UK is an exception to this.

.
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sbucciarel

Banned 9 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

Another alleged victim speaks out. This one a former "super model".

Janice Dickinson Alleges That She Was 'Sexually Assaulted' By Bill Cosby

This is another one who met up with Cosby because she wanted a spot on the Cosby show and ended up in his hotel room. It says "her stomach was bothering her so she asked him for a pill." He gave her a pill and a drink and woke up with no pajamas and the memory of him raping her.

She "of course" did not report the rape to the police. She wrote about it in her memoirs and he and his lawyers convinced her to remove details. She, of course ... did remove those details.

Thing is ... I believe all these stories, but I find the women reprehensible in that they did and said nothing until now. Anything to further a career and accusing a rapist of rape who happens to famous and powerful in Hollywood does nothing to further your career.

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discrat

9 years ago

This stuff is all believable. Maybe one story you could make the call as being erroneous.

But not 4 stories.

Janice Dickinson is weird and I never liked her attitude in general.

Nonetheless, if she was raped she was raped regardless of how I do not care for her or not.

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Richard Van

9 years ago

Originally Posted by discrat

Janice Dickinson is weird and I never liked her attitude in general.

I don't know her and I don't know the details of Mr Cosby but I'll say this much. Anyone that wakes up with the DNA evidence to nail the guy, who then doesn't report it and writes a book about it instead, is probably taking the piss.

Not saying he's innocent, I'm just not convinced about Janice.

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seasoned

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Richard Van

I don't know her and I don't know the details of Mr Cosby but I'll say this much. Anyone that wakes up with the DNA evidence to nail the guy, who then doesn't report it and writes a book about it instead, is probably taking the piss.

Not saying he's innocent, I'm just not convinced about Janice.

Yeah, giving descriptive details about people, companies, or places in a book, involved in some criminal act, that weren't provided to/by the police, is not a good idea. SHE could end up getting sued.

Steve

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seasoned

9 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

This is another one who met up with Cosby because she wanted a spot on the Cosby show and ended up in his hotel room. It says "her stomach was bothering her so she asked him for a pill." He gave her a pill and a drink and woke up with no pajamas and the memory of him raping her.

She "of course" did not report the rape to the police. She wrote about it in her memoirs and he and his lawyers convinced her to remove details. She, of course ... did remove those details.

Thing is ... I believe all these stories, but I find the women reprehensible in that they did and said nothing until now. Anything to further a career and accusing a rapist of rape who happens to famous and powerful in Hollywood does nothing to further your career.

Well, a lot of women have spoken about the fear, apprehension, and embarrassment of reporting such a thing, etc.... So you could almost understand why it wasn't reported. THAT is the reason why we are even talking about it. Still, the story above is too vague. I could see someone dreaming or imagining that.

Steve

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Claude Whitacre

9 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

Anything to further a career and accusing a rapist of rape who happens to famous and powerful in Hollywood does nothing to further your career.

Really? It makes you famous.

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thunderbird

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

Really? It makes you famous.

False accusations are the exception, not the rule. When a number of unassociated individuals emerge with similar accusations, it is very strongly indicative that the accused really committed the crime. The chances of it being otherwise would be infinitesimal.

Being famous wouldn't further the career of a person no one would want to hire for fear of a false accusation. It could be downright dangerous since it could turn a person into a target of attack in various forms -- online, in person, harassing phone calls etc. Sadly, the fear victims suffer is, indeed, justified. Note that one of the victims of famous-in-Canada radio host/sexual crime predator Jian Ghomeshi' was a lawyer and actually stated that the knowledge that her accusation probably wouldn't go far stopped her from going public with the accusation until very recently. Repeat violent wife-beater US Federal Judge Mark Fuller still holds his job.

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Steven Wagenheim 9 years ago

TV Land just dropped the Cosby Show reruns.
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- seasoned 9 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim
  
  TV Land just dropped the Cosby Show reruns.
  
  It is a shame that this affects all the OTHERS as well. Probably DOZENS and maybe HUNDREDS get licencing fees, and residuals, and they won't get nearly as much now. I wonder if fat albert is cancelled. the money for THAT may ALL go to cosby.
  
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  Midnight Oil 9 years ago
  
  Lou Ferrigno's wife, Carla: Bill Cosby tried to sexually assault me - Washington Times
  
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Claude Whitacre

9 years ago

Originally Posted by thunderbird

False accusations are the exception, not the rule. When a number of unassociated individuals emerge with similar accusations, it is very strongly indicative that the accused really committed the crime. The chances of it being otherwise would be infinitesimal.

The fact that the accusers are not associated doesn't seem to affect the feeding frenzy.

The similar accusations (drugging) do indicate a real crime. But they aren't proof.

And as much as I tend to agree that he's probably guilty of at least part of it, there is no evidence...only testimony...of crimes committed long ago.

About 30 years ago, when I was selling vacuum cleaners in people's homes...I was working in an apartment complex. I talked to a single woman, found out she had no job, and left....to talk to other prospects. I was training a young man, who waited in the car for me. When I found out that nobody living in the building had a full time job, I left the building.

I was picked up after I left the building, by the police. She had told the Manager that I had attacked her. No idea why. within a half an hour 2 other women reported the same thing.

I wasn't in the building more than 15 minutes total. I have no idea what their motivation was, no idea why I was the one accused. Fortunately, their stories didn't match, and I was released. Of course, I never worked anywhere near that building again.

Maybe that's why I like evidence.

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sbucciarel

Banned 9 years ago

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

I was picked up after I left the building, by the police. She had told the Manager that I had attacked her. No idea why. within a half an hour 2 other women reported the same thing.

I wasn't in the building more than 15 minutes total. I have no idea what their motivation was, no idea why I was the one accused. Fortunately, their stories didn't match, and I was released. Of course, I never worked anywhere near that building again.

Maybe that's why I like evidence.

That's the problem with this ... they had the chance to report when there was evidence, but didn't.

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thunderbird

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

<snip>

About 30 years ago, when I was selling vacuum cleaners in people's homes...I was working in an apartment complex. I talked to a single woman, found out she had no job, and left....to talk to other prospects. I was training a young man, who waited in the car for me. When I found out that nobody living in the building had a full time job, I left the building.

I was picked up after I left the building, by the police. She had told the Manager that I had attacked her. No idea why. within a half an hour 2 other women reported the same thing.

I wasn't in the building more than 15 minutes total. I have no idea what their motivation was, no idea why I was the one accused. Fortunately, their stories didn't match, and I was released. Of course, I never worked anywhere near that building again.

Maybe that's why I like evidence.

I agree that it is best to have a legal system in place that weighs evidence. However, that is for criminal prosecution, while entertainment executives are free to fire someone who they have reason to believe is a criminal psychopath.

Weird stuff happens. Many years ago, a woman who took a fancy to me lured me to her home then locked me in her basement. It was scary, but I did manage to get away. What does it mean? Squat, really. What you're describing sounds like people who knew each other conspiring. In Bill Cosby's case, it is a disparate range of women who have emerged with claims being drugged and sexually violated by him and most of them seem well-adjusted and certainly way past the phase of their lives when they aspired be famous Hollywood performers.

For the record, I believe the women and think Bill Cosby is a psycho sexual predator who has been preying on innocent young women for decades.

I was big fan of Bill Cosby myself and his shows played a role in my childhood. I used to think he was the epitome of cool. He's a classic psychopath. Charming, calculating, brilliantly manipulative, lacking common empathy, criminal. I've been aware of the allegations against Bill Cosby for years and often wondered about the lack of reaction. There a number of celebrities who've committed horrendous crimes but have avoided punishment due to their fame, celebrity, wealth, charm. Certain sectors of society really are largely above the law. Maybe things that's changing in contemporary times, with online social media and everything.

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sbucciarel

Banned 9 years ago

Originally Posted by thunderbird

For the record, I believe the women and think Bill Cosby is a psycho sexual predator who has been preying on innocent young women for decades.

I was big fan of Bill Cosby myself and his shows played a role in my childhood. I used to think he was the epitome of cool. He's a classic psychopath. Charming, calculating, brilliantly manipulative, lacking common empathy, criminal. I've been aware of the allegations against Bill Cosby for years and often wondered about the lack of reaction. There a number of celebrities who've committed horrendous crimes but have avoided punishment due to their fame, celebrity, wealth, charm. Certain sectors of society really are largely above the law. Maybe things that's changing in contemporary times, with online social media and everything.

I completely agree with your description of Bill Cosby. I think that, except for the felon that just came out with a story, that the stories are true. But I have a problem with describing the women as "innocent." Most sound little more than glorified prostitutes to me... willing to compromise both their morals and their "safety" for the promise of fame. The teens bother me the most, obviously taught to look the other way and not risk their careers over this ... where were their parents and why didn't the parents prosecute? I have very little empathy for these women.

I've been in the business world for most of my adult life. I've had many meetings with men for interviews and I never had, nor would I consider having, a business meeting in someone's hotel room. I also wouldn't meet a business associate and promptly swallow a handful of pills that were offered .... and if the worst case scenario happened and he raped me, the next time I saw him would be in a court of law.

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thunderbird

9 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

I completely agree with your description of Bill Cosby. I think that, except for the felon that just came out with a story, that the stories are true. But I have a problem with describing the women as "innocent." Most sound little more than glorified prostitutes to me... willing to compromise both their morals and their "safety" for the promise of fame. The teens bother me the most, obviously taught to look the other way and not risk their careers over this ... where were their parents and why didn't the parents prosecute? I have very little empathy for these women.

I've been in the business world for most of my adult life. I've had many meetings with men for interviews and I never had, nor would I consider having, a business meeting in someone's hotel room. I also wouldn't meet a business associate and promptly swallow a handful of pills that were offered .... and if the worst case scenario happened and he raped me, the next time I saw him would be in a court of law.

I know you're right that vulnerable people lacking in good judgment and with misguided aspirations are easy targets for abusive predators. I don't think being a "glorified prostitute" means someone deserves to be violated. It is as wrong to abuse a prostitute as any other human being. It was because of society's inability to recognize and acknowledge the humanity of prostitutes that serial killer Robert Pickton in Canada could kill 49 street walkers and vulnerable women over a period of many years without being properly pursued. The one law enforcement official who, early on, recognized it was going on got fired..

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sbucciarel

Banned 9 years ago

Originally Posted by thunderbird

I know you're right that vulnerable people lacking in good judgment and with misguided aspirations are easy targets for abusive predators. I don't think being a "glorified prostitute" means someone deserves to be violated. It is as wrong to abuse a prostitute as any other human being. It was because society's inability to recognize and acknowledge the humanity of prostitutes that serial killer Robert Pickton in Canada could kill 49 street walkers and vulnerable women over a period of many years without being properly pursued. The one law enforcement official who recognized it was going on got fired..

I agree that prostitutes deserve equal protection under the law. They also have equal responsibility for reporting the crime and testifying against the perp in a trial if they want justice. That's not possible with a serial killer, but it certainly is with a serial rapist. These women waited decades, long past a time when Cosby could or would benefit them in any way and several of them saw him numerous times willingly after allegedly being raped.

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Midnight Oil

9 years ago

Picture Pages' Renita Chaney Hill claims Bill Cosby sexually assaulted her from 15 | Daily Mail Online

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Claude Whitacre

9 years ago

Sooooooo none of these women reported the incidents until now?

Does anyone know what started these reports (not including the obvious "He molested them").

I mean, what caused the first person to come forward?

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sbucciarel

Banned 9 years ago

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

Sooooooo none of these women reported the incidents until now?

Does anyone know what started these reports (not including the obvious "He molested them").

I mean, what caused the first person to come forward?

Who knows ... since numerous of them don't have a problem with seeing a serial rapist repeatedly if they think it might benefit them in some way, maybe they were hoping that his lawyers would pay them all off.

But I first heard whispers from at least one woman long time ago. Cosby calls that the "discredited allegations from decades ago."

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Midnight Oil

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

Sooooooo none of these women reported the incidents until now?

Does anyone know what started these reports (not including the obvious "He molested them").

I mean, what caused the first person to come forward?

Seems to have started a slow burn when Hanniball Burress worked the accusations into his comedy bit back in October. Then it really caught fire after Cosby's PR team, who obviously don't understand the interwebs, launched that idiotic Meme Me campaign.

There's a pretty decent timeline with some interesting tidbits and links here:

Timeline: Abuse Charges Against Bill Cosby -- Vulture

The first one who came forward in January 2005 may have been consensual according to an old ABC News report. No charges brought after investigation.

Cosby denied even knowing the second (?) in February 2005, but I don't know if that was proven true or not.

In June 2005, another claims she was in an on and off relationship with him for several years. She came forward after reading about the first in National Enquirer. NE paid her $7,500 for her story as long as she passed a lie detector test. Supposedly she passed, but the story was never published for some reason. She claims to have been in love with him and that he drugged her weeks after he kicked her out.

The way it's coming out, it sure seems like there's some truth to it.

Then again, some (most?) of the accusers seemed to be in a position where they were wanting something from him, also. Stardom? Fame? Love? Money? And when those things didn't happen, well . . .

There's definitely a domino effect. Some possibly just piggybacking on the other stories wanting their few minutes of internet stardom. Some possibly just finding the courage to come forward.

At least three, I think, were teenagers at the time. Where the hell were their parents?

Lou Ferrigno's wife was a teenager, I think. That whole story seems strange. Cosby's wife goes to bed and leaves her husband alone with a good looking teenage girl who worked as a Playboy Bunny?

Ah, hell . . . I'm rambling. It's a mess.

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discrat

9 years ago

Psychopath ??

Very interesting observation.

One characteristic/s of a true Psychopath is being cold, cruel, and zero empathy while being such an incredible 'actor' the individual fools everyone.

Bill Cosby ??

uhmmmm.......

just saying

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Claude Whitacre

9 years ago

Originally Posted by discrat

Psychopath ??

Very interesting observation.

One characteristic/s of a true Psychopath is being cold, cruel, and zero empathy while being such an incredible 'actor' the individual fools everyone.

Bill Cosby ??

uhmmmm.......

just saying

Actor?....Jello?.......Man? They were women?.......It all adds up, doesn't it?

Actually, psychopaths are usually damaged, so that they have terrible impulse control. The "Brilliant, evil, manipulative mastermind" is mostly a myth.

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TimPhelan

9 years ago

So the latest one to come forward was just 15 when she says he molested her. It went on for 4 years before she ended it. Cosby paid for her college education still.

Last night Bill did s show in Bermuda and joked about all this! He pretends to cry and the audience laughs. Weird.

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seasoned

9 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

So the latest one to come forward was just 15 when she says he molested her. It went on for 4 years before she ended it. Cosby paid for her college education still.

Last night Bill did s show in Bermuda and joked about all this! He pretends to cry and the audience laughs. Weird.

Sometimes people will laugh at ANYTHING! Some people will also. If he feels he can get away with it, joking about it may limit its scope. If he can get enough people laughing at the IDEA, opinion can change. It is often used for generalnon personal things. Of course THIS IS personal, so it could backfire. He might feel he has nothing to lose. I mean he had like 5 major things lined up and they are GONE! How much would he get for an appearance or endorsement? That money is GONE.

Steve

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sbucciarel

Banned 9 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

So the latest one to come forward was just 15 when she says he molested her. It went on for 4 years before she ended it. Cosby paid for her college education still.

Last night Bill did a show in Bermuda and joked about all this! He pretends to cry and the audience laughs. Weird.

Weird and out of touch. Fact is, he's been planning a comeback and his comeback has been mostly derailed, a series and numerous other big projects that were in the pipeline and tons of interviews have all been nixed. Some people will still love him no matter what, but I'll bet we won't see him doing Jello commercials or any other product commercials any time soon.

TMZ reports that a planned Cosby appearance on the Queen Latifah show has been canceled.

Cosby's Nov. 19 appearance on the Late Show With David Letterman is canceled.

NBC announces it is halting development of its new show starring Cosby.

Netflix postpones a Bill Cosby comedy special set to air Nov. 28.

November 19, 2014
Nearly all remnants of Cosby vanish from the airwaves as TV Land pulls all Cosby Show reruns from its schedule and NBC scraps the sitcom it was developing with him.

The Associated Press releases video of a November 6 interview in which Cosby tells an AP interviewer to "scuttle" footage of him refusing to comment on the charges. "If you want to consider yourself to be serious," he says, "it will not appear anywhere." Cosby later says he "thought AP had the integrity to not ask."

Multiple theaters cancel upcoming apperances by Cosby, including the Treasure Island Hotel and Casino in Las Vegas and the Virginia Theater in Illinois.

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discrat 9 years ago

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

Actually, psychopaths are usually damaged, so that they have terrible impulse control. The "Brilliant, evil, manipulative mastermind" is mostly a myth.

How about Pro Social ones ??
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thunderbird

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

Actor?....Jello?.......Man? They were women?.......It all adds up, doesn't it?

Actually, psychopaths are usually damaged, so that they have terrible impulse control. The "Brilliant, evil, manipulative mastermind" is mostly a myth.

What do you base that on? The brilliant evil mastermind who can maintain a facade of normalcy, even success, that the public sees while leading a sick psychopathic life behind the scenes is very real. Russell Williams and Ted Bundy are a couple of examples of that.

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discrat

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

Actor?....Jello?.......Man? They were women?.......It all adds up, doesn't it?

Actually, psychopaths are usually damaged, so that they have terrible impulse control. The "Brilliant, evil, manipulative mastermind" is mostly a myth.

In all due respect, it is not a Myth at all. Really

And as far as damaged ? Kind of up for debate.

Psychopaths (particularly violent ones) through extensive study do show some remarkable inclination to have certain physical structures of the Brain, particularly ones that control Empathy, to be underdeveloped and abnormal.

Tests have shown through both Pet Scans and MRIs this to be the case.

I do not know if you can really characterize that as damaged or just congenital malformations..

But emotionally damaged ? I think in many cases, yes !

You combine the abnormal hard wiring with an abusive and terrible childhood ,and it can be the ingredients of a Perfect Storm..

Think Charles Manson and John Wayne Gacy

Experts have surmised that psychopaths tend to have a combination of Nature/Nurture characteristics.

Simply Meaning that in many cases it is a combo of genes and life experiences that results in these inexplicable grisly acts that these brutes commit. (Of course there are many non-violent psychopaths in society. Many CEOs irrefutably have some of these traits, that is for sure

)

As far as brilliant Masterminds and psychopaths ??

There are plenty of examples throughout the history of man including Hitler, Jim Jones,ida amin, pol pot ,Robert Maxwell ( who many of our UK friends here probably know about ) to name a few. I could go on and on.

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Claude Whitacre

9 years ago

Originally Posted by discrat

In all due respect, it is not a Myth at all. Really

And as far as damaged ? Kind of up for debate.

Psychopaths (particularly violent ones) through extensive study do show some remarkable inclination to have certain physical structures of the Brain, particularly ones that control Empathy, to be underdeveloped and abnormal.

Tests have shown through both Pet Scans and MRIs this to be the case.

I do not know if you can really characterize that as damaged or just congenital malformations..

Most psychopaths have a damaged cerebral cortex. So, planning, impulse control, and rational thinking are affected. These people are what most of us think of, when we hear the word Psychopath. Most brain damage isn't so isolated, that it only affects empathy.

When I said "Damaged", I could have said "non-functioning".

And we tend to group evil people, that commit terrible crimes as psychopaths. Most violent criminals don't lack empathy. They lack impulse control. A different part of the brain.

You actually sound like you've studied it.

Originally Posted by thunderbird

What do you base that on? The brilliant evil mastermind who can maintain a facade of normalcy, even success, that the public sees while leading a sick psychopathic life behind the scenes is very real. Russell Williams and Ted Bundy are a couple of examples of that.

I base it on extensive study, and the fact that I have been told that I am a high functioning sociopath, by doctors.

Brilliant evil mastermind? Psychopaths aren't any more brilliant than we are, and most are subnormal. Sure, some bright people are also psychopaths, but it's a rarity.

Bill Cosby isn't Ted Bundy or Hitler. And I'll let you in on a secret. Most men I know have secrets that would get them arrested if they were public. Half cheat on their wives, and getting a girl drunk to have sex with her, especially in the 70's and 80's..was so common, it wasn't even an issue.

Remember the seventies? At the time, maybe 25% of the girls I dated asked for some kind of drug. Weed or pills. It was very common. Slipping a girl a drug, without her knowledge is another issue.

Cosby isn't a psychopath. He's a man who took advantage of his celebrity, and used girls. If you ever met a psychopath, you would know the difference.

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

Weird and out of touch. Fact is, he's been planning a comeback and his comeback has been mostly derailed, a series and numerous other big projects that were in the pipeline and tons of interviews have all been nixed. Some people will still love him no matter what, but I'll bet we won't see him doing Jello commercials or any other product commercials any time soon.
.

In a month or so, we'll be talking about something else. You're right, his career is over, but that's probably going to be the end of it. He could make a comeback, but there isn't enough time to distance himself from this.

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discrat

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

Most psychopaths have a damaged cerebral cortex. So, planning, impulse control, and rational thinking are affected. These people are what most of us think of, when we hear the word Psychopath. Most brain damage isn't so isolated, that it only affects empathy.

When I said "Damaged", I could have said "non-functioning".

And we tend to group evil people, that commit terrible crimes as psychopaths. Most violent criminals don't lack empathy. They lack impulse control. A different part of the brain.

You actually sound like you've studied it.

Yeah, it is something I have had interest with particularly in having a close friend who is a medical professional ...
..and we have had lots of in depth talks about it.

Very fascinating stuff.

Here is one Myth I have found out about studying Psychopaths, particularly violent ones.

Maybe it could be just semantics.

But people seem to say that they have no conscience ( knowing right from wrong) of the acts they do.

This is quite the opposite.

They definitely( in most cases) know the difference between right and wrong.
They choose to just do wrong.

And relish it. In fact they love to talk about it and relive their nasty deeds later on in their Life with stories. Bundy, Dahlmer, Tommy Sells ..a lot of them loved going over the cases with Authorities.

And also many psychopaths just do not have feelings or remorse. They actually are in disbelief that others can have feelings or care for people.

Here is the thing though. Many psychopaths are so smart and cunning they will purposely mimic a caring person. They will do this to be able to manipulate a person and fool them so in the end they can get what they want.

But if you really analyze closely some of these Monsters can mimic but there is a disconnect in what they are saying and what they are truly feeling.
A tell- tale from some of the ones I studied is the fact they failed to produce tears when they became passionate or seemingly very very sad. None.

Case in point : I was watching some tapes of Aileen Wuornos a few months. Throughout all her very passionate and many times seemingly sad interviews there were NEVER any tears shedded. Iam talking about instances where almost all 'normal' people would expect tears, it was that seemingly emotional.

P.S. Plus, another reason it fascinates me is that my first girlfriend's ( 23 years ago) dad was a violent psychopath. Who at the time I had no idea. He fooled the crap out of me. Charming and we had really good conversations with each other. Psychopaths love to be charming, btw

I still kick myself for sitting around bon fires and kicking back , shooting the chat and and drinking beers with this Monster. It is just unreal, really.

It wasn't until later I found out about his psychopathic horrors. ( I also found out later that this first girlfriend of mine hanged herself in 1996 because of him)

From what I understand he is just getting out of Prison this year since being there since 1994. I could write a book about it

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Claude Whitacre

9 years ago

Originally Posted by discrat

Yeah, it is something I have had interest with particularly in having a close friend who is a medical professional ...
..and we have had lots of in depth talks about it.

Very fascinating stuff.

Here is one Myth I have found out about studying Psychopaths, particularly violent ones.

Maybe it could be just semantics.

But people seem to say that they have no conscience ( knowing right from wrong) of the acts they do.

This is quite the opposite.

They definitely( in most cases) know the difference between right and wrong.
They choose to just do wrong.

I can't speak for all psychopaths, but I can speak for myself.

The language is wrong. It isn't "Right" or "Wrong". Those concepts never enter my mind. When I hear someone say "He knows right from wrong", I still am not sure exactly what they mean. It's a cultural idea that doesn't mean anything to me.

But I've studied how psychopaths think.
And the psychopaths you mention, don't want to do "Wrong". They have drives that they just want to satisfy. If that drive was to paint, they would still be obsessive...but obsessive about painting.

In their case, they became obsessive about killing. And to them, it was all the same as painting. Bundy got off listening to testimony about his crimes, because that's what excited him. The fact that it was "wrong", was not a factor. It was simply what drove him. If you take out emotions, all that's left are drives and intellect.

But killing people, and not wanting to stop...isn't "A brilliant Mastermind"..... It's dysfunctional.

The part of the brain that controls language skills may not be affected in Psychopaths. So they come off as intelligent. Not Brilliant, but not stupid. So, after we find out that they are also committing evil acts, we elevate their status to "Diabolical, Manipulative, Masterminds". When in fact, they were anything but brilliant.

I've listened to Ted Bundy tapes. He was of normal intelligence. Normal cleverness. He didn't even stand out to me as particularly intelligent. But the part of the brain that tells us "Killing women is not a smart or kind thing to do"...simply wasn't functioning in him.

Every criminal that isn't mentally disabled isn't a mastermind. Hitler wasn't brilliant. The part of his brain that tells us "You can't control the world" simply didn't exist in him.

Psychopaths have no "Governor" that controls their actions. Sometimes, if the rest of the brain functions well, they become great leaders. And every once in a while, that allows them to indulge their fantasies, while hurting others.

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discrat

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

But killing people, and not wanting to stop...isn't "A brilliant Mastermind"..... It's dysfunctional.

.

Here is the thing : ALL psychopaths are not killers. I know, I know most people when they hear the word psychopath they think blood thirsty axe killer and Friday the 13th etc..

Big misconception.

The fact of the matter is very few psychopaths are killers

There are many psychopaths in corporate America .And many CEOs are bonafide psychopaths.
Impulsive, grandiose, selfish, zero empathy, walking all over anybody no matter what to get what they want, and do not care if they hurt someone as long as they get their's etc..etc..

So it is a mistake to say that psychopaths are not brilliant because they have an insatiable appetite for killing.

As it has been demonstrated that many just do not have an insatiable appetite for killing, whatsoever !

The Enron execs, Berne Madoff, and countless other white collar criminals are psychopaths who were very smart, cunning, and yes in some respects brilliant masterminds.

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Claude Whitacre

9 years ago

Originally Posted by discrat

So it is a mistake to say that psychopaths are not brilliant because they have an insatiable appetite for killing.
.

I didn't say that. I said killing people is a dysfunction. In fact, empathy and intelligence are located in different areas of the brain.

But killing people also shows a lack of planning ahead. Not planning the killing, but planning for their future. Bundy had impulse control and a lack of empathy.

No. You can be very smart, and still have an impulse to kill. But a healthier brain, suppresses that urge.

Like it or not, I pretty much agree with everything you've said about this.

I don't know the Madoff case well. But Psychopaths show signs early in life. If Madoff didn't show signs of very bad behavior until after he was in the financial world for decades.....it could be that the temptation was simply greater than his fear of getting caught.

Anyway, about Cosby. Would they call his actions "Rape" today? I think so. Would they have called his actions "Rape" in the seventies? Maybe. Maybe not.

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discrat

9 years ago

Yes, it all is very intriguing.

I could go on and on analyzing some of these people. You seem to also like to dissect the human mind of these people as well

I do think some of these psychopaths, particularly white collar ones, had some intelligence or brilliance so to speak to do what they did. ( some not)

However, in the end I think what you say or imply is also true...
if they were so brilliant why is madoff rotting in jail, why did Bundy get fried in the chair, why did Hitler have to kill himself at a relatively young age and finally...

how could Bill Cosby ( if he is a psychopath and if this stuff is true) be so stupid to think he could be that brazen and never be found out all these years ??

So brilliant ? Yeah at the end of the day, not really

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Claude Whitacre

9 years ago

Originally Posted by discrat

how could Bill Cosby ( if he is a psychopath and if this stuff is true) be so stupid to think he could be that brazen and never be found out all these years ??

This is just a guess. He simply wasn't thinking about it at the time. The thought of getting caught or not getting caught, probably didn't enter his mind.

It's actually harder for me to understand why non-psychopaths commit crimes. I chalk it up to stupidity, but I know that's not the real answer.

And......the version of events in his head are probably different from the version in the girl's heads. He may not even look at his actions as crimes, but just bad judgement. He may even see himself as the victim here. After all, he helped the girls out financially, and they mostly came back to him. So, maybe...at the time...most of them didn't see it as a crime either.

We define rape differently now. He wasn't violent, and at the time, that was more the definition of rape.

Anyway, these are just guesses, not even opinions.

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discrat 9 years ago

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

It's actually harder for me to understand why non-psychopaths commit crimes. I chalk it up to stupidity, but I know that's not the real answer.

Claude, I hear you..
... but I think some violent crimes can be out of passion or heat of the moment ( "you slept with me wife so Iam going to put this ice pick through your skull ") also people who have heavy addictions to drugs.

And there is a very SMALL minority of people who commit violent crimes because they are mentally ill.
Schizophrenia and OCD ( very very rare though) come to mind.

Some experts categorize Psychopathy as a mental illness, some don't !!
Mainly they do not because psychopathy is NOT treatable.

But some medical professionals in practice do turn the table on a psychopath to control his devious behavior.
Ex. "Hey Charlie you know if you follow the rules and do this....then you can have everything you always wanted and thought you deserved in this World "

That can work believe it or not and has been demonstrated before with patients/

But your heard the saying when someone is commenting about a bad person , " well that little Johnny is just a bad seed" ..
Sometimes that is a hopeless psychopath they are referring to
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seasoned

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

This is just a guess. He simply wasn't thinking about it at the time. The thought of getting caught or not getting caught, probably didn't enter his mind.

It's actually harder for me to understand why non-psychopaths commit crimes. I chalk it up to stupidity, but I know that's not the real answer.

And......the version of events in his head are probably different from the version in the girl's heads. He may not even look at his actions as crimes, but just bad judgement. He may even see himself as the victim here. After all, he helped the girls out financially, and they mostly came back to him. So, maybe...at the time...most of them didn't see it as a crime either.

We define rape differently now. He wasn't violent, and at the time, that was more the definition of rape.

Anyway, these are just guesses, not even opinions.

In the 70s, and 80s, I think they had the basic definition of rape.

That was that denying a person the ability to consent, and having sex outside of marriage without original consent was rape! ALSO, minors are not capable of entering a legal contract and therefore can not give consent. So THAT is statutory rape. The term statutory is just to make it clear that it is rape because of the statute, and not because of a lack of consent.

I think outside of maybe rape within a marriage, running consent, and in a position of authority, the rape laws were the same.

Of course they later ruled that rape is possible in a marriage. They ruled that consent can be withdrawn at any moment. They ruled that rape is rape even if they are both adults and consent to it, if the "aggressor" is in a position of authority. Of course, this is just as I recall. The rules may have existed earlier.

And rape is often violent, but that was never part of the definition.

Steve

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seasoned

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

Actor?....Jello?.......Man? They were women?.......It all adds up, doesn't it?

Actually, psychopaths are usually damaged, so that they have terrible impulse control. The "Brilliant, evil, manipulative mastermind" is mostly a myth.

FIRST, you say it is VERY VERY VERY real, and THEN you say it is a MYTH? I mean the two statements are right against one another!

Probably MOST people that do this, and try to figure out all sorts of permutations to mitigate it, etc..., have an impulse that they never wanted to control, or just don't want to try. It is like a kid denied a piece of cake because he did something wrong. He might eat the cake and, knowing that he may be yelled at, move the cut area out of sight. If caught, he may try to shift subjects, or make it seem like it WAS that way.

Steve

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sbucciarel

Banned 9 years ago

Originally Posted by Midnight Oil

At least three, I think, were teenagers at the time. Where the hell were their parents?

Lou Ferrigno's wife was a teenager, I think. That whole story seems strange. Cosby's wife goes to bed and leaves her husband alone with a good looking teenage girl who worked as a Playboy Bunny?

Ah, hell . . . I'm rambling. It's a mess.

Good question ... where were the parents and why did they allow a teen to fly off to all kinds of places to meet up with him unescorted by a guardian? Could be they too were hoping it would all pay off in the long run.

There's enough oddity in all of the stories to cast doubt that these women aren't somewhat complicit in the "rapes."

I believe that he drugged and had non-consensual sex with women. I don't know if I believe every story that chimes in at this point, especially those that had ongoing relationships with him after the "rape."

I think he'll get what he deserves, and that is public shame and loss of earnings/career. But I can tell you that I also don't think very highly of the women involved.

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Claude Whitacre

9 years ago

Originally Posted by thunderbird

I was big fan of Bill Cosby myself and his shows played a role in my childhood. I used to think he was the epitome of cool. He's a classic psychopath. Charming, calculating, brilliantly manipulative, lacking common empathy, criminal.

Heck, you're describing me, except for the criminal part.

Is Cosby guilty of some of this. Maybe...maybe even probably. But this is a feeding frenzy.

I sure hope I never start a feeding frenzy where every girl I got high with, or drunk with, sees my picture in a magazine......and assumes I must be wealthy.

After reading the timeline, it looks like Cosby very recently made a couple of minor mistakes (besides the crimes), and got the ball rolling. I saw him on The Colbert Report just a month or so ago. Nothing reported then.

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whateverpedia 9 years ago

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

Really? It makes you famous.

That illustrates what a thin line there is between famous and infamous.
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Alexa Smith Banned 9 years ago

Originally Posted by Young Financier

I believe this is some crap cooked up by the liberal media

Funniest (unintentionally) post of the day, after Claude's then?

I've heard the Daily Fail called some pretty insulting things, quite understandably, in my time (and called it several things, myself), but "liberal media" most certainly isn't one of them! It's one of those "How ironic can you get?" comments.

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Kurt

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Young Financier

I believe this is some crap cooked up by the liberal media to crucify Mr. Cosby for not towing the "negro script." When black men like Bill Cosby and other black conservatives start preaching the message of hard work, no excuses, quit blaming white people, and doing for self, white liberals and other blacks viciously attack them. That is exactly what I believe Mr. Cosby is experiencing. It's nothing to get a few women to make false rape allegations. It's a well known fact that a lot of men are in prison today because of a woman who lied about being raped after having consensual sex which she later regretted.

Funny how the liberal media hold Dr. King up as a hero but his sexual behavior was well known. How come he wasn't crucified? Because he preached the message of victimology to blacks.

And before I'm accused of being racist, just know that I'm a black male myself.

Yes! It's the "liberal media" owned by that pinko liberal Rupert Murdoch!

BTW, you have NO idea what happened between Cosby and those women. Stop pretending like you do.

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seasoned

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Young Financier

I believe this is some crap cooked up by the liberal media to crucify Mr. Cosby for not towing the "negro script." When black men like Bill Cosby and other black conservatives start preaching the message of hard work, no excuses, quit blaming white people, and doing for self, white liberals and other blacks viciously attack them. That is exactly what I believe Mr. Cosby is experiencing. It's nothing to get a few women to make false rape allegations. It's a well known fact that a lot of men are in prison today because of a woman who lied about being raped after having consensual sex which she later regretted.

Funny how the liberal media hold Dr. King up as a hero but his sexual behavior was well known. How come he wasn't crucified? Because he preached the message of victimology to blacks.

And before I'm accused of being racist, just know that I'm a black male myself.

Well, it is hard to see where Cosby is here. I heard about some stupid statements he has made, and there are some things, like support of Muslims.

And I am not belittling Cosby's carreer. HECK, I liked ispy! Ispy, in the 60s(started 1965), was a popular kind of drama/comedy, and cosby was a kind of co-main character. He was the second one given credit. The bill cosby show in 1970. There was fat albert in 1972, where he did the narration and voices and got top credit.

I Spy TV Opening Theme Version 1 - YouTube

The Bill Cosby Show Opening 1970 - YouTube

Fat Albert Opening Theme - YouTube

I heard once, a long time ago, that Cosby went into an area that was pro black, that had signs of various people that helped, and one was abraham lincoln, and cosby stated "What has HE ever done for blacks!?" And he says things like THIS:

Bill Cosby Rants Against Republicans, Compares Them to Segregationists for Not Applauding Obama

Liberals CAN'T even make such statements! If conservatives supported obama, liberals would likely hate him, and speak against him. A number of liberals HAVE spoken against him because of various problems. If liberals supported obama, conservatives would likely hate him. This has been true of nearly EVERY president since 1980. WHY should OBAMA be exempt? It isn't white versus black at all. If he were white, and only hired whites, I would STILL dislike him. It isn't about what he IS, but about what he is DOING. I was against bill clinton and carter ALSO.

As for Martin Luther king, I haven't heard him preach victimology, though I didn't look at that much of what he did. His "I have a dream" speech, by its VERY EXISTENCE, showed a ring of hope. It is unrealistic that ALL non blacks should be so friendly to blacks. They aren't even that friendly to one another. BUT, by the time he died, MANY were that friendly. Back then, there may have been some meaningful elements of institutional racism. There certainly were such elements for much of his life.

Steve

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TLTheLiberator

9 years ago

NBC under pressure to cancel upcoming Bill Cosby sitcom amid new rape allegations - Salon.com

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ceenote100

9 years ago

So what has Mr. Cosby been REALLY doing with all those Jello pudding pops huh?

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thunderbird

9 years ago

When this many victims emerge, it strongly suggests that the accused perpetrator committed the crime. Likewise, Michael Jackson does deem to have been a pedophile, considering the number of victims emerging. It is not uncommon to be dazzled and intimidated by someone's fame and celebrity-status or bought-out to shush about it. Kirk Douglas never got formally accused or prosecuted for violently raping actress Natalie Wood. He was a powerful producer; she was an aspiring actress.

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TimPhelan

9 years ago

Good grief! Don Lemon! This is just weird and awkward. Lemon asked one of the accusers why she didn't bite his penis! The reaction on twitter afterwards using #DonLemonReporting is hilarious.

Lemon: Can I ask you this, because -- and please, I don't mean to be crude, ok?
Tarshis: Yeah.
Lemon: Because I know some of you -- and you said this last night, that he -- you lied to him and said "I have an infection, and if you rape me, or if you do -- if you have intercourse with me, then you will probably get it and give it to your wife."
Tarshis: Right.
Lemon: And you said he made you perform oral sex.
Tarshis: Right.
Lemon: You know, there are ways not to perform oral sex if you didn't want to do it.
Tarshis: Oh. Um, I was kind of stoned at the time, and quite honestly, that didn't even enter my mind. Now I wish it would have.
Lemon: Right. Meaning the using of the teeth, right?
Tarshis: Yes, that's what I'm thinking you're --
Lemon: As a weapon.
Tarshis: Yeah, I didn't even think of it.
Lemon: Biting.
Tarshis: Ouch.
Lemon: Yes. I had to ask. I mean, it is, yeah.
Tarshis: Yes. No, it didn't cross my mind.

Yep. Had to ask that question Don. I'm sure Edward R. Murrow and Mike Wallace would have asked it also. :/

Twitter:

Why did JFK drive down that road in Dallas? You're telling me there were no other streets?
#donlemonreporting

why didn't the earth just move instead of getting hit by a meteorite and making the dinosaurs extinct?
#DonLemonReporting

If Shamu doesn't like SeaWorld, why does Shamu keep working there? #DonLemonReporting

Why did President Lincoln need to go to a play? Why not stay home and look at daguerreotypes? #DonLemonReporting

My favorite
"Did you think of distracting Cosby with some Jello pudding? You know he loves that!" #donlemonreporting

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TLTheLiberator

9 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

Good grief! Don Lemon! This is just weird and awkward. Lemon asked one of the accusers why she didn't bite his penis! The reaction on twitter afterwards using #DonLemonReporting is hilarious.

Yep. Had to ask that question Don. I'm sure Edward R. Murrow and Mike Wallace would have asked it also. :/

Twitter:

Why did JFK drive down that road in Dallas? You're telling me there were no other streets?
#donlemonreporting

why didn't the earth just move instead of getting hit by a meteorite and making the dinosaurs extinct?
#DonLemonReporting

If Shamu doesn't like SeaWorld, why does Shamu keep working there? #DonLemonReporting

Why did President Lincoln need to go to a play? Why not stay home and look at daguerreotypes? #DonLemonReporting

My favorite
"Did you think of distracting Cosby with some Jello pudding? You know he loves that!" #donlemonreporting

Maybe Don saw the movie Shankshaw Redemption where Tim Robbins let the guy know that he couldn't account for his actions if the bad guy in jail forced his penis into Robbins' mouth and once defensive action was begun in earnest the destruction it released could not be reversed and wouldn't be worth it to the bad guy - no matter what happened to Mr. Robbins as a result of his actions.

But I guess Don should know.

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seasoned

9 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

Good grief! Don Lemon! This is just weird and awkward. Lemon asked one of the accusers why she didn't bite his penis!

Well, I think something is just WRONG with don lemon. He I now KNOWN for being a bit crazy, and he DID ask that black hole question!

Why did JFK drive down that road in Dallas? You're telling me there were no other streets?
#donlemonreporting

COME ON! It was PLANNED! A BETTER question is why was the car open, and why did the secret service approve that road? Seeing such a hedge, and tall building, they should have had people there, watched better, or denied the route.

why didn't the earth just move instead of getting hit by a meteorite and making the dinosaurs extinct?
#DonLemonReporting[/quote

FORGET THAT!

If Shamu doesn't like SeaWorld, why does Shamu keep working there? #DonLemonReporting

Why did President Lincoln need to go to a play? Why not stay home and look at daguerreotypes? #DonLemonReporting

My favorite
"Did you think of distracting Cosby with some Jello pudding? You know he loves that!" #donlemonreporting

Yeah, as crazy as don lemons question was, the posts to twitter made even LESS sense!

IMAGINE if they bit! They would have a horrible reputation, and likely be sued and end up in jail!

Steve

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TLTheLiberator

9 years ago

Bill Cosby's New NBC Show Is No Longer In Development

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Loridori4

9 years ago

I just want to know WHY is all this coming out now?

timing seems strange...why wait 40 years to holler rape?

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seasoned 9 years ago

Originally Posted by Loridori4

I just want to know WHY is all this coming out now?

timing seems strange...why wait 40 years to holler rape?

People get older, reconsider, and the fear/embarrassment disappears. All you need to release it is a TRIGGER. There have been a LOT of triggers over the past 40 years, including 2 last week!

Steve
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Alexa Smith

Banned 9 years ago

Originally Posted by Loridori4

timing seems strange...why wait 40 years to holler rape?

It's not about the number of years, I think?. It's more about the number of other people coming forward and the resultant publicity.

Exactly as was seen in the UK, recently, with the Savile case, the Rolf Harris case, and so very many others (some of them still ongoing, albeit many of them resulting in acquittals rather than in convictions): once one or two people come forward with these allegations, others feel that they ought to, too, because of the "mutual credibility" arising from multiple allegations.

.

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seasoned

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Alexa Smith

It's not about the number of years, I think?. It's more about the number of other people coming forward and the resultant publicity.

Exactly as was seen in the UK, recently, with the Savile case, the Rolf Harris case, and so very many others (some of them still ongoing, albeit many of them resulting in acquittals rather than in convictions): once one or two people come forward with these allegations, others feel that they ought to, too, because of the "mutual credibility" arising from multiple allegations.

.

Yeah, if you have something against some powerful person/group, you may keep quiet. When you find you have a big enough group that agrees, ALL may come forward, So it is understandable, and it IS a pattern in rape.

MOST probably know that their coming forward won't get them anything, and cosby won't see any criminal charges. All it will do is make them feel better, POSSIBLY support criminal charges from later charges, and maybe destroy cosby's career.

BTW Criminal charges have one level of proof. Civil charges aren't as demanding. The court of public opinion is even less demanding. Contract decency clauses are even less demanding.

Steve

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sbucciarel

Banned 9 years ago

Originally Posted by Alexa Smith

It's not about the number of years, I think?. It's more about the number of other people coming forward and the resultant publicity.

Exactly as was seen in the UK, recently, with the Savile case, the Rolf Harris case, and so very many others (some of them still ongoing, albeit many of them resulting in acquittals rather than in convictions): once one or two people come forward with these allegations, others feel that they ought to, too, because of the "mutual credibility" arising from multiple allegations.

.

I've read about those UK cases ... they were interesting. In the US, these cases are too old to try. Worse case scenario is that his career is over, and I think that's going to be the result of this, and it's just as well.

The thing that I've mentioned before is ... if you are willing to place yourself in compromising position and repeat that behavior after being "raped" due to a perceived benefit to your career, does the blame only lie with the rapist?

Let's say that all these women ... their dreams came true and Cosby was the catalyst for Hollywood success beyond their wildest imaginations ... would they be singing right now?

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momtraders

9 years ago

Actress recalls alleged rape by Bill Cosby, who 'pinned me by my neck' | Death and Taxes - This women says {During one incident in Denver, he “wanted me to act completely drunk, wasted, while he stood behind me and stroked my neck and upper chest,” Bowman remembered. “He didn’t touch me beyond that, on that day, but that’s where it certainly started}

Because of the nature of the rape accusations, (drugged, passed out) his little fantasy that he had this women reenact tells me that yes these allegations are most likely true.

Also, I was abused 15 years ago, I was a teen and I still have never brought attention to my attackers because honestly I am still scared today, even more so why did it take me so long? I am just now starting to have triggers that are becoming unbearable and for the first time in my life I want to tell my story and possibly hold the people accountable.... but that will probably never happen because of the fear.

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TLTheLiberator

9 years ago

CNN's Don Lemon Apologizes For Bizarre Penis Biting Rape Question

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sbucciarel

Banned 9 years ago

... and the landslide continues. Now it's the Cosby reruns going
TV Land pulls 'Cosby' reruns; fallout continues

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discrat

9 years ago

You really have to wonder about the repercussions of such a potentially damaged Brand here.

Some of the people who were involved with Cosby, like the younger actresses on The Cosby Show.

It is a well known fact that Cosby took those kids under his wings and got them really very lucrative deals to SET them up financially with Syndication Royalties. Now what ??

Theo and little Rudi are probably saying, "Damn , back to work "

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sbucciarel Banned 9 years ago

Originally Posted by discrat

You really have to wonder about the repercussions of such a potentially damaged Brand here.

All the canceled shows and the shows that were scheduled that will not be airing now and the royalties to all the other actors for the Cosby show ... other people are definitely negatively impacted by this.
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seasoned

9 years ago

Originally Posted by discrat

You really have to wonder about the repercussions of such a potentially damaged Brand here.

Some of the people who were involved with Cosby, like the younger actresses on The Cosby Show.

It is a well known fact that Cosby took those kids under his wings and got them really very lucrative deals to SET them up financially with Syndication Royalties. Now what ??

Theo and little Rudi are probably saying, "Damn , back to work "

Most of the syndication royalties, it looks like, are GONE!!!!! Cosby is SO closely associated with the show that even if there is an episode that he is never in, they won't show it. Even the CONCEPT, and the family name/makeup may be tied with him. That would mean no new movies, series, or episodes with that.

Steve

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Midnight Oil 9 years ago

Originally Posted by discrat

Theo and little Rudi are probably saying, "Damn , back to work "

Both have worked consistently since The Cosby Show ended. But still a valid point on royalties.
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TLTheLiberator

9 years ago

What I don't get is why he had to allegedly rape anyone in the first place.

I understand that a affair could have been damaging to his image and career but couldn't he have convinced at least one woman to give him the help he allegedly needed without allegedly raping them and to stay quiet about it?

Charles Kuwalt had another entire family and no one knew about it until after his death.

I guess being America's dad comes with a bunch of restrictions.

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Claude Whitacre

9 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

What I don't get is why he had to allegedly rape anyone in the first place.

I understand that a affair could have been damaging to his image and career but couldn't he have convinced at least one woman to give him the help he allegedly needed without allegedly raping them and to stay quiet about it?

I guess being America's dad comes with a bunch of restrictions.

Because it isn't about sex. It's about control.

There are lots of men with these issues. Most never act on them, because they have little opportunity, or because they have enough self control. But when you are in a position of power, the temptation and opportunity is greater.

The "drugging" aspect of it was the telling part. If it was just about sex, he wouldn't have felt the need for that.

It's very sad for all involved.

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

"Everyone on that show treated me with nothing but kindness. Now keep me out of this!"

-Raven Symone

You go, Girl.

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TimPhelan 9 years ago

Inappropriate perhaps, but this song came to mind:

Sublime - Date Rape - YouTube
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TLTheLiberator

9 years ago

"Everyone on that show treated me with nothing but kindness. Now keep me out of this!"

-Raven Symone

Raven-Symone slams rumors Bill Cosby sexually assaulted her - CBS News

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Midnight Oil

9 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

"Everyone on that show treated me with nothing but kindness. Now keep me out of this!"

-Raven Symone

Raven-Symone slams rumors Bill Cosby sexually assaulted her - CBS News

Just disgusting that Hip Hop Hangover is trying to drag her into something like this. I don't care if it is a parody site. I hope she sues the crap out of them.

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sbucciarel

Banned 9 years ago

Good grief ... the stories just don't stop and the women are all the same ....

Serignese says she first met Cosby in 1976, when she was 19 and he was headlining a show at the Las Vegas Hilton. She was standing in the Hilton gift shop when Cosby approached her.

"Somebody came up to me and put their arm around my neck from the back and said, 'Will you marry me?'" Serignese told HuffPost over the phone. "And I turned around to see who it was, and it was Bill Cosby."

After the show she claims she was escorted back to the green room, where Cosby held out two white pills and a glass of water, saying, "Here, take these." She did.

"The next memory I have was I was in a bathroom and I was kind of bending forward and he was behind me having sex with me," she said. "I was just there, thinking, 'I'm on drugs, I'm drugged.' I felt drugged and I was being raped and it was kind of surreal. My frame of mind was that it would be over soon and I could just get out of there."
Bill Cosby in 2012.

She didn't call police.

Over the next 20 years, she says she had intermittent contact with Cosby, including at least one sexual encounter around 1985. She also accepted two payments from him in 1996 after she was in a car accident, including a $5,000 check from his agent, but she never came forward publicly about the assault for fear that no one would believe her.

It says ... he just handed her two pills and she just popped them into her mouth, and then while being raped, she says .... "I was just there, thinking, 'I'm on drugs, I'm drugged.

Duh .... what exactly did she think the pills were and why did she take them?

New Cosby accusers include Lou Ferrigno's wife

Carla Ferrigno, wife of The Incredible Hulk star Lou Ferrigno, has revealed that Bill Cosby used a 'friend' to pick her up and arrange for her to meet the star.

After a night out with Cosby and his wife Camille, they went to Cosby's home in Los Angeles where Camille retired, her date left the room and Cosby tried to have his way with her.

Carla Ferrigno, in an exclusive interview with MailOnline, says she was still in her teens when Cosby tried to sexually assault her.

Bill Cosby attacked Lou Ferrigno's wife Carla while wife Camille was in house | Daily Mail Online

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Claude Whitacre 9 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

Over the next 20 years, she says she had intermittent contact with Cosby, including at least one sexual encounter around 1985.

What?

Again, here may well be truth to these accusations.....but What?
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- sbucciarel Banned 9 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre
  
  What?
  
  Again, here may well be truth to these accusations.....but What?
  
  I know ... who has a "sexual encounter" not claiming that it was yet another rape with their rapist? Geeesh ... these women.
  
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  TimPhelan 9 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by sbucciarel
  
  Geeesh ... these women.
  
  Yep. It's weird. While, I think the sheer number of women coming forward and the similarities of their stories is making most people believe them, just about all have something strange going on with them. It's really hard to fathom anyone being drugged and raped, and then voluntarily meeting their rapist again for whatever reason.
  
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dewalds86

9 years ago

Shame this is sad to hear. I have always looked up to this guy.

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sbucciarel

Banned 9 years ago

Bill Cosby - Spanish Fly - YouTube

In it, Cosby describes being a kid and hearing about a wonder drug -- "Spanish Fly" -- that would make a girl go crazy once it was put into her drink. He presents this as a horny/goofy lark of an idea, a myth that kids buy into all over the world. More disturbingly, Cosby then describes his adult interest in such a drug, especially on a trip he took to Spain with Robert Culp of I Spy -- both Culp and Cosby, he claims, were desperate to get their hands on some Spanish Fly.

Even when I heard this bit as a kid, I wondered: Why would famous TV stars need a drug to get women interested in them? Why is sex something to lie and cheat and scheme to get, rather than something to share? Hearing it now, it's positively chilling, especially the crowd's easy laughter, which suggests that Cosby was able to put over his fantasy of women stripped of their ability to say no as something near universal. Boys will be boys, hahaha, and then refuse ever to speak of it once they become rich and powerful men.

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sbucciarel

Banned 9 years ago

Here it is ... a timeline. Here's the first and only one to take him to court, which was settled out of court.

March 8, 2005

Andrea Constand, the former director of operations for the Temple University women's basketball team, files a lawsuit against Cosby, alleging that he drugged and molested her at his home in Pennsylvania in 2004. A local prosecutor had declined to file charges related to the alleged abuse. After Constand's accusations become public, a second woman, Tamara Green, says on the Today Show that in the 1970s, Cosby gave her pills that knocked her unconscious and then groped her. Court papers in the Constand case mention Green and 12 anonymous women who make similar allegations against the actor and comic. Cosby denies ever molesting any of the women.

Here's the rest

Bill Cosby Rape Allegations: A Timeline

... and get this, the last entry

Nov. 20, 2014

A woman claiming to be one of the alleged anonymous Cosby victims mentioned the 2005 Constand lawsuit tells her to story to People. Therese Serignese says she was 19 when she met Cosby in Las Vegas in 1976. She says he invited her to a backstage green room after a show and offered her Quaaludes, which she took. The comedian then sexually assaulted her, Serignese alleges. The woman also says that she subsequently had a sexual relationship with Cosby and later asked him for money.

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goodewealth

9 years ago

One thing I will say is...if you "consent then" please don't act brand new now and holler "rape" to gain financially later. And honestly not saying which is what...but that is exactly what majority of this appears to be now. I worked in a lawyers office for 9 years and I have seen many cases that dragged on and the only way that those "accused" could see their way out was to submit and succumb to a dispersed "undisclosed" amount of retribution to the plaintiff and it didn't mean that they were guilty it just meant that it would be a "costly" drawn out issue that could drag on for years...and believe me the fees would be far greater than the original settlement. So, really let us see how this all comes out in the end.

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thunderbird

9 years ago

"If you have a rapist friend
now is the time, now is the time
for your friendship to end."

(altered one letter in the lyrics of a Bob Marley song)

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TimothyW

9 years ago

I think "they" had to crucify him, because he was speaking "truth in love" to the black community. The race card is very similar to the victim card -- and Cosby was calling out the black community on their playing both cards as an excuse to abdicate responsibility.

The black community leaders cannot have that. Hence the scorched earth policy, re: Mr. Cosby.

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discrat 9 years ago

It is really becoming a Tsunami for ole Bill !!

https://tv.yahoo.com/news/law-order-...232500878.html
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- seasoned 9 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by discrat
  
  It is really becoming a Tsunami for ole Bill !!
  
  https://tv.yahoo.com/news/law-order-...232500878.html
  
  Talk about IRONIC!!!!!!
  
  Steve
  
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seasoned

9 years ago

Originally Posted by TimothyW

I think "they" had to crucify him, because he was speaking "truth in love" to the black community. The race card is very similar to the victim card -- and Cosby was calling out the black community on their playing both cards as an excuse to abdicate responsibility.

The black community leaders cannot have that. Hence the scorched earth policy, re: Mr. Cosby.

That IS interesting. It would be something to check the timeline, and politics. Of course, they apparently haven't gone after some, like Michael Nutter(Mayer of philidelphia and ALSO black). He is ALSO calling people out. He was even on National news, because a lot of kids got together, and the new pope is coming to Philadelphia!.

Steve

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TimPhelan

9 years ago

Originally Posted by TimothyW

I think "they" had to crucify him, because he was speaking "truth in love" to the black community. The race card is very similar to the victim card -- and Cosby was calling out the black community on their playing both cards as an excuse to abdicate responsibility.

The black community leaders cannot have that. Hence the scorched earth policy, re: Mr. Cosby.

Umm. No. That isn't it. Although some in the black community didn't like what he said at times or how he said it, he recently was still extremely respected and popular among that community. One poll I saw showed he was the second most respected black person, ahead of Obama even, and trailing only Oprah.

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TimothyW

9 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

Umm. No. That isn't it. Although some in the black community didn't like what he said at times or how he said it, he recently was still extremely respected and popular among that community. One poll I saw showed he was the second most respected black person, ahead of Obama even, and trailing only Oprah.

Thanks Tim. Now, what you have said here DOES make sense, and DOES speak to the point I brought up. Unlike what "whatever" said (which makes no sense).

-- TW

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thunderbird

9 years ago

Originally Posted by TimothyW

I think "they" had to crucify him, because he was speaking "truth in love" to the black community. The race card is very similar to the victim card -- and Cosby was calling out the black community on their playing both cards as an excuse to abdicate responsibility.

The black community leaders cannot have that. Hence the scorched earth policy, re: Mr. Cosby.

At this point, I honestly believe that someone has to be in serious denial not to recognize that Bill Cosby is a serial sexual predator and rapist. Maybe it's just me, but I don't feel that I must bond with someone of similar outlook if that person is a psychopathic criminal. Doing so would just denigrate any cause and erode its credibility.

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TimPhelan 9 years ago

Another one comes forward. This one a Playboy playmate of the month ( 1963 ).
Bill Cosby
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- Midnight Oil 9 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by TimPhelan
  
  Another one comes forward. This one a Playboy playmate of the month ( 1963 ).
  Bill Cosby
  
  "The story of this story is that it won't stop developing."
  Perderick L. "Perd" Hapley
  Channel 4 Eyewitness News
  
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whateverpedia

9 years ago

Originally Posted by TimothyW

I think "they" had to crucify him, because he was speaking "truth in love" to the black community. The race card is very similar to the victim card -- and Cosby was calling out the black community on their playing both cards as an excuse to abdicate responsibility.

The black community leaders cannot have that. Hence the scorched earth policy, re: Mr. Cosby.

Another white guy pontificating about black people.

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seasoned

9 years ago

Originally Posted by whateverpedia

Another white guy pontificating about black people.

What he said HAS been known to happen, so it is a bit silly to claim it is false because he is white.

A number of BLACKS have complained about how certain blacks are "uncle toms", etc... SIMPLY because they say the truth, don't sound stereotypical, or are successful, etc...

But go ahead and say something is not true simply because of the color of the skin on the person saying it. It is IRONIC, but nothing new.

Steve

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TimPhelan

9 years ago

Originally Posted by seasoned

A number of BLACKS have complained about how certain blacks are "uncle toms", etc... SIMPLY because they ... are successful, etc...

Please show just one example of a black being called an uncle tom simply because they are successful. Good grief, the racial bs that comes from you is never ending.

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Midnight Oil

9 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

Please show just one example of a black being called an uncle tom simply because they are successful. Good grief, the racial bs that comes from you is never ending.

Rep. Bennie Thompson defends calling Clarence Thomas an "Uncle Tom" - CBS News

Uncle Herman (Tom) Cain

Condoleezza Rice Is an Uncle Tom | Miami New Times

Uncle Tom Powell Stumps for Massah Bush

9 Black Celebs Malcolm X Would Call Modern Day Uncle Toms - Atlanta Blackstar
Keeping on topic, "Actor-comedian Bill Cosby’s consistent effort to heap blame on poverty-stricken African-Americans for their plight without giving equal acknowledgment to the role of institutional racism, would likely qualify him as an Uncle Tom."

Just a few.

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TimPhelan

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Midnight Oil

Rep. Bennie Thompson defends calling Clarence Thomas an "Uncle Tom" - CBS News...

Just a few.

Nope. They weren't called uncle Toms just because they were successful. I'm not defending the use of that term by the way, but politics was the reason it was used in the examples you listed. Speaking of which, politics and race have nothing to do with Cosby drugging and raping women.

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Midnight Oil

9 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

Nope. They weren't called uncle Toms just because they were successful. I'm not defending the use of that term by the way, but politics was the reason it was used in the examples you listed.

You may not be defending it, but you're certainly excusing it based on politics. They are successful, right?

You're either intentionally ignoring the obvious or really just don't have a clue. Before calling Steve's comments "racial bs," perhaps you should spend some time with Google or reading the comment sections of articles about black celebrities and entertainers, in particular. Read through #uncletom on Twitter. It really doesn't take much effort.

Louis Armstrong

That still did not prevent members of the African-American community, particularly in the late 1950s to the early 1970s, from calling him an Uncle Tom, a black-on-black racial epithet for someone who kowtowed to white society at the expense of their own racial identity.

Louis Armstrong - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Sammy Davis Jr.

Sammy Davis Jr. was an international celebrity, a cultural hero adored by white America for his talent and loathed by a generation of black America for being just another Uncle Tom, a minstrel who forgot his roots.

Sammy Davis, Jr.'s 'Music, Money, Madness' : NPR

Arsenio Hall

There is a point when you say, 'I can't please anybody'....Spike Lee's saying I'm an Uncle Tom and white people are saying I'm 'too black'...Who am I doing this for? You say, I'm just tired of not being able to please anyone....

Arsenio Hall Has Emotional Moment on Oprah's 'Next Chapter'. Talks Being Called 'Uncle Tom' And Not Black Enough for Late Night & More :: theJasmineBRAND

Luther Campbell

Spike is upset because Samuel L. Jackson's character in the movie is just like him: a conniving and scheming Uncle Tom.

Spike Lee Is No Quentin Tarantino | Miami New Times

"The Fab Five," an ESPN film about the Michigan basketball careers of Jalen Rose, Juwan Howard, Chris Webber, Jimmy King and Ray Jackson from 1991 to 1993, was broadcast for the first time Sunday night. In the show, Rose, the show's executive producer, stated that Duke recruited only black players he considered to be "Uncle Toms." Grant Hill, a player on the Duke team that beat Michigan in the 1992 Final Four, reflected on Rose's comments.

http://thequad.blogs.nytimes.com/201...to-jalen-rose/

Also used frequently in headlines. For example:

Rae Dawn Chong Exposes Oprah As An Insecure Uncle Tom!

Black...Power? Celebrities Who Got Called Uncle Toms And Sellouts...Did They Deserve It?

ESPN's Hugh Douglas Fired After Calling Co-Host an "Uncle Tom" - Today's News: Our Take | TVGuide.com

It goes on and on . . .

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

Speaking of which, politics and race have nothing to do with Cosby drugging and raping women.

Don't lecture me just because I followed up on your comments.

Back to topic now?

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Claude Whitacre

9 years ago

Well, with the last few exchanges, this thread is almost guaranteed to be deleted or shut down. Nice.

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Steven Wagenheim 9 years ago

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

Well, with the last few exchanges, this thread is almost guaranteed to be deleted or shut down. Nice.

And once again, I didn't do it.
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sbucciarel

Banned 9 years ago

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

Well, with the last few exchanges, this thread is almost guaranteed to be deleted or shut down. Nice.

^^^^^
Exactly ... it almost got shut once because of the liberal comments. Please refrain as this story ain't over yet.

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Midnight Oil

9 years ago

So, back to topic . . .

I'm really surprised that we haven't heard anything from Phylicia Rashad, Sabrina Le Beauf, Lisa Bonet, Tempestt Bledso or Keshia Knight Pulliam. I understand they may not want to get involved in the controversy, but they worked closely with him for years and surely have some insights.

I somewhat expected Rashad to voice her support of Cosby by now. She, Le Beauf and Bonet were all in that age group at the time. If one of them came out with a story, that would be the equivalent of a media nuclear blast.

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sbucciarel

Banned 9 years ago

Originally Posted by Midnight Oil

So, back to topic . . .

I'm really surprised that we haven't heard anything from Phylicia Rashad, Sabrina Le Beauf, Lisa Bonet, Tempestt Bledso or Keshia Knight Pulliam. I understand they may not want to get involved in the controversy, but they worked closely with him for years and surely have some insights.

I somewhat expected Rashad to voice her support of Cosby by now. She, Le Beauf and Bonet were all in that age group at the time. If one of them came out with a story, that would be the equivalent of a media nuclear blast.

Lisa Bonet tweeted a cryptic message on Twitter about Karma catching up and things not staying in the dark forever.

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Steven Wagenheim 9 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

Lisa Bonet tweeted a cryptic message on Twitter about Karma catching up and things not staying in the dark forever.

Well, that can't be good.
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TimPhelan 9 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

Lisa Bonet tweeted a cryptic message on Twitter about Karma catching up and things not staying in the dark forever.

That account has been suspended so it's unclear, and unlikely?, that is was hers.
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- sbucciarel Banned 9 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by TimPhelan
  
  That account has been suspended so it's unclear, and unlikely?, that is was hers.
  
  Ahhh ... I see. A fake.
  
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TLTheLiberator

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Midnight Oil

So, back to topic . . .

I'm really surprised that we haven't heard anything from Phylicia Rashad, Sabrina Le Beauf, Lisa Bonet, Tempestt Bledso or Keshia Knight Pulliam. I understand they may not want to get involved in the controversy, but they worked closely with him for years and surely have some insights.

I somewhat expected Rashad to voice her support of Cosby by now.

She, Le Beauf and Bonet were all in that age group at the time. If one of them came out with a story, that would be the equivalent of a media nuclear blast.

Why throw your career out the window for someone who's in big, big trouble?

There's way too much smoke to come out in support of him now.

Would you?

FYI...

Rashad is a lot older than Bonet and the kids.

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Midnight Oil 9 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

Rashad is a lot older than Bonet and the kids.

Right. I was referring to Rashad being on the upper end of the age scale of the current accusers. She was only seven years or so older than at least a couple of them during the eighties. Possibly younger than a couple of others.
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- Midnight Oil 9 years ago
  
  Per Lisa Bonet's manager: She is not on Twitter, and all accounts saying it's her are fake.
  
  Instagram
  
  Just someone else trying to drag another one in, it seems. Or just for some deranged shits and giggles.
  
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TimPhelan 9 years ago

Originally Posted by Midnight Oil

You may not be defending it, but you're certainly excusing it based on politics. They are successful, right?

Sure, they are successful, but what Steve said was they use this term "simply... because they are successful." That is what is BS imo. If you and Steve believe that good for you, but just googling "uncle tom celebrity" doesn't prove his point.
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HeySal

9 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

Please show just one example of a black being called an uncle tom simply because they are successful. Good grief, the racial bs that comes from you is never ending.

There were a few blacks that were just elected that I've seen called that very publicly. One is in SC and one is in Utah. The one in Utah is not only black, but also female. Tim Scott, Mia Love.

The correct term is "Congratualtions". I saw the term "uncle tom" explode when both of them were elected. Tim's also been called a ventriloquist Dummy.

Go to twitter and search "Uncle Tom" and either name. You'll see it was a very common response to both of their victories.

I don't know what is happening with this Cosby case, and I know from my time at the Crisis center that many men that are admired by their communities have skeletons in the closet, but I do know he was speaking out very sharply to blacks about taking responsibility for their own lives - the same kinds of thing King was promoting about the time they killed him. I don't know enough to say whether this man got a little "cocky" because of his position, or if he's being railroaded, though.

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TimPhelan 9 years ago

Originally Posted by HeySal

I don't know enough to say whether this man got a little "cocky" because of his position...

I'm not going to touch that line.
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discrat 9 years ago

No I do not think he is being railroaded.

There is just overwhelming evidence that this guy has major skeletons in his closet.

I am sure we will be hearing more stories from those closest to Cosby, fellow actors etc... that may corroborate some of this.

His best bet would be to take the money and run. Go to some obscure European country and sip Martinis on the Beach for the rest of his Life.

Me ?? That's what I would do
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Mike Anthony

9 years ago

and often coming in for the backup

Originally Posted by HeySal

The correct term is "Congratualtions". I saw the term "uncle tom" explode when both of them were elected. Tim's also been called a ventriloquist Dummy.

"Blacks" are more called that by other blacks for policy not being successful. You never know what you are talking about when you decide to talk about "Blacks".

but I do know he was speaking out very sharply to blacks about taking responsibility for their own lives - the same kinds of thing King was promoting about the time they killed him..

For as long as Cosby was "speaking out" you could just as well say there was a conspiracy connection to his comedy or shucks it could be the pudding pops (pudding is dark brown and mushy and we can't have none of that
symbolism of weakness in the Black community).

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HeySal

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

and often coming in for the backup

"Blacks" are more called that by other blacks for policy not being successful. You never know what you are talking about when you decide to talk about "Blacks".

For as long as Cosby was "speaking out" you could just as well say there was a conspiracy connection to his comedy or shucks it could be the pudding pops (pudding is dark brown and mushy and we can't have none of that
symbolism of weakness in the Black community).

Yeah - whatever excuse you want to use for the name calling makes it okay? Policy -- or way of life? These blacks are successful because they chose to be. They deserve to be honored, not ridiculed. I realize that part of the name calling had to do with political affiliation - but if you think that makes it right, you're just proving what others said before.

I'm not the one who suggested conspiracy - I was merely commenting on the idea that was presented in a previous post. He wouldn't be the first person destroyed because someone opposing what they were saying had a lot of power. Does this kind of thing actually apply to Cosby? I have no rippin' clue. What I said, in case you actually need translation of such a simple idea, was that I wouldn't be surprised if the allegations are true, but will not be surprised if he's being railroaded for something either. I don't know much about him other than as a character in a TV show and a few comments he's made to the black community at large.

My post was in answer to someone here that didn't think the term Uncle Tom was still being used, or some such. And yeah - I'm an old white broad. I don't live in a cave, though. I actually communicate with people of all races so get over yourself.

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Mike Anthony

9 years ago

Originally Posted by HeySal

Yeah - whatever excuse you want to use for the name calling makes it okay? Policy -- or way of life? These blacks are successful because they chose to be.

You right mistress SaL. Youse always right. its not like whites call others red necks or anything likes that because of ways of life and jolly gee wese all know that the mother cleaning toilet and serving tables well theys never chose to be successful. Theys just like the smell of ajax.

Don't complain..what in the world was "these blacks are successful because they chose to be" supposed to mean? As opposed to whom?

They deserve to be honored, not ridiculed. I realize that part of the name calling had to do with political affiliation - but if you think that makes it right, you're just proving what others said before.

Tims question was regarding being called Uncle tom for being successful. Neither he nor I as far as I can see was justifying name calling. thats called a strawman. If as you stated it was for affiliation with parties and their policies then you failed to address that point.

My post was in answer to someone here that didn't think the term Uncle Tom was still being used, or some such. And yeah - I'm an old white broad. I don't live in a cave, though. I actually communicate with people of all races so get over yourself.

Never said you lived in a cave. also never said you have to live in a cave to be ignorant either. For that you only have to talk about things you don't have any real knowledge of. Every time there is a news item involving some black person theres you and Seasoned in some commentary on"blacks" and the Black community". maybe given you have no inside knowledge you should get over your own self being the designated social commentators of a community you only know from the outside.

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Claude Whitacre

9 years ago

And...this thread is deleted in...3...2...1.....

But I get it. It's more important to spew bile, than have a real conversation.

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Mike Anthony 9 years ago

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

And...this thread is deleted in...3...2...1.....

But I get it. It's more important to spew bile, than have a real conversation.

You can characterize any response the way you wish. It holds no weight. This is a thread about a serial rapist. the minute Seasoned and company turned to race theres nothing wrong with stating its wrong for them to do so and if that leads to deletion then it leads to deletion..and yes not having racists comments stand on WF is more important than discussing Bill Cosby.
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sbucciarel

Banned 9 years ago

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

And...this thread is deleted in...3...2...1.....

But I get it. It's more important to spew bile, than have a real conversation.

Spewing bile is what some here do best. This discussion was about Bill Cosby and the allegations quite a few women have made of at least inappropriate sexual behavior. It should not have ever been about race or politics ... at all. I'm done trying to save the thread to keep it open for further discussion. It's run it's course.

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Midnight Oil

9 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

Bill Cosby paid off women says ex-NBC employee - NY Daily News

The Emmy-winning Cosby, NBC's most bankable star at the time, used Scotti to deliver monthly payouts to eight different women in 1989-90

Cosby lawyer Martin Singer scoffed at Scotti's claims.

"What evidence does he have of Mr. Cosby's involvement?" Singer said Saturday.

Scotti, who lives in Lakewood, N.J., saved copies of money orders from the era detailing his payouts to four of the Cosby women.

Angela Leslie, now 52, was the last name on the receipts

Doh!

Leslie's story isn't that remarkable compared to the others. She claims he made a move or two and she stopped him. The money order receipts made out to her, though . . . that really doesn't look good.

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sbucciarel

Banned 9 years ago

Originally Posted by Midnight Oil

Doh!

Leslie's story isn't that remarkable compared to the others. She claims he made a move or two and she stopped him. The money order receipts made out to her, though . . . that really doesn't look good.

Something that occurs to me is that most of these women are probably telling the truth because, in my view, they no longer have anything to gain by telling their stories and the stories make them look pretty bad. I think most people put two and two together and see how these women gained financially from this and the fact the several of them had consensual relationships with him after allegedly being raped. These stories taint their own reputations, IMO.

Here's a new one and this one apparently didn't gain from Cosby and didn't see him again

Bill Cosby assaulted another ex-model, she alleges - NY Daily News

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Midnight Oil

9 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

Here's a new one and this one apparently didn't gain from Cosby and didn't see him again

Bill Cosby assaulted another ex-model, she alleges - NY Daily News

"I didn't want to take this black icon down," said Allison, who has degrees from NYU in film and television. "This was my Bill Cosby. Do you want to shatter everyone's belief system?"

Not wanting to make light of what she says happened to her, but damn, is that what we're down to now with this story? Shattering everyone's belief system? LMAO.

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sbucciarel

Banned 9 years ago

Originally Posted by Midnight Oil

Not wanting to make light of what she says happened to her, but damn, is that what we're down to now with this story? Shattering everyone's belief system? LMAO.

I guess for some ... not me. I didn't watch the Cosby Show much. Didn't care for it. Didn't watch his stand-up. I've never been a Cosby fan to any real degree. I didn't like or dislike him. Now I just think he's a real pig.

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Karen Blundell

9 years ago

Originally Posted by HeySal

if he's being railroaded, though.

there is something about all of this that doesn't sit right with me - and I wonder if indeed he is being railroaded -

all these women all deciding to open up now - it seems very suspicious to me -

and yes, I understand (all too well) about the fear and shame which would prevent a woman going to the police right away, but it is all too coincidental that all of these women waited years and years before coming forward, and some of them saw him repeatedly after the alleged rape - to me that destroys any credibility they may have -

It is very sad that most of America has already decided he is guilty and that his career is all but over. What ever happened to innocent until proven guilty?

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thunderbird

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Karen Blundell

there is something about all of this that doesn't sit right with me - and I wonder if indeed he is being railroaded -

all these women all deciding to open up now - it seems very suspicious to me -

and yes, I understand (all too well) about the fear and shame which would prevent a woman going to the police right away, but it is all too coincidental that all of these women waited years and years before coming forward, and some of them saw him repeatedly after the alleged rape - to me that destroys any credibility they may have -

It is very sad that most of America has already decided he is guilty and that his career is all but over. What ever happened to innocent until proven guilty?

The public and the media was suddenly paying attention to it, but women didn't suddenly emerge all at once. Yes, a number of them were emboldened by the fact that other victims emerged and were being taken seriously for once, as is the case with Canada's own sexual predator psychopath Jian Ghomeshi, and Britain's highly protected BBC pervert Jimmy Savile (who, unlike Bill Cosby, died of natural causes before meeting up with Karma). I don't feel sad for Bill Cosby. He's meeting Karma and he deserves it. I feel sad for the multitude of women he violated. Did some get bought out? Yes, that's what big money can do, even in cases of rape.

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sbucciarel

Banned 9 years ago

Originally Posted by Karen Blundell

there is something about all of this that doesn't sit right with me - and I wonder if indeed he is being railroaded -

all these women all deciding to open up now - it seems very suspicious to me -

and yes, I understand (all too well) about the fear and shame which would prevent a woman going to the police right away, but it is all too coincidental that all of these women waited years and years before coming forward, and some of them saw him repeatedly after the alleged rape - to me that destroys any credibility they may have -

It is very sad that most of America has already decided he is guilty and that his career is all but over. What ever happened to innocent until proven guilty?

Karen, there's nothing new about these allegations. They've been around for decades. The media just starting paying attention again after the comedian worked it into his show and it went viral. I have zero doubt that Bill Cosby did these things and at least most of the revelations are true. Do I respect the women involved? In most cases, no, but that has nothing to do with anything. Drugging and sexual assault are criminal. He used his power and money to keep the reports from damaging him previously. This man is scum in my book.

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Mike Anthony

9 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

Please show just one example of a black being called an uncle tom simply because they are successful. Good grief, the racial bs that comes from you is never ending.

Pretty much......He's always front and center whenever theres something negative being said about blacks. This isnt an issue about race. The women could more make this about gender. the conspiracy theory thing is just a way for the racists to hijack the situation. Cosby's comments on the Black community started long ago. if it was connected then this would have taken place back then.

Crying shame for the women and for a few of those actors in the cosby show that never saw much work after but now are out of a paycheck.

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TimothyW

9 years ago

Originally Posted by whateverpedia

Another white guy pontificating about black people.

To whatever -- your statement makes no sense -- sorry.

Can someone pontificate about people in wheelchairs, even though they are perfectly able to walk? Of course.

Are you a rapist or a victim of rape? If not, then how are you pontificating in this thread?

Your line of thinking is absurd.

Do you ever read editorials? I mean read them, and not write in a complaint about how the editor should never have been pontificating about someone/something the editor is not (personally).

Do you also complain when a black person "pontificates" on something about white people?
They have no "right" to do that?

Absurd. Certifiably absurd.

-- TW

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whateverpedia

9 years ago

Originally Posted by TimothyW

To whatever -- your statement makes no sense -- sorry.

So a white guy knows all about what black people think and feel do they. OK.

Can someone pontificate about people in wheelchairs, even though they are perfectly able to walk? Of course.

WTF?!?!?!

Are you a rapist or a victim of rape? If not, then how are you pontificating in this thread?

WTF?!?!?!? (again).

Your line of thinking is absurd.

And yet the above two quotes make sense to you. OK.

Do you ever read editorials? I mean read them, and not write in a complaint about how the editor should never have been pontificating about someone/something the editor is not (personally).

WTF?!?!?!?! (yet again).

Absurd.

You can say that again.

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TimothyW

9 years ago

All I can say is -- I gave you plenty of rope -- and look what you did with it.

Originally Posted by whateverpedia

So a white guy knows all about what black people think and feel do they. OK.

WTF?!?!?!

WTF?!?!?!? (again).

And yet the above two quotes make sense to you. OK.

WTF?!?!?!?! (yet again).

You can say that again.

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seasoned

9 years ago

OH, and I HATE using the urban dictionary for ANYTHING like this, but the description of uncle tom here is VERY telling!!!!!!!

Urban Dictionary: Uncle Tom

Look at the last statement!

Uncle Tom 

Uncle Tom is a term used by black people to try to convince other black people that working, education, living well, and setting a good example for their children is selling out.

"De Shawn got a job? At Ameritech? He's a Tom"

Steve

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TimPhelan

9 years ago

Originally Posted by seasoned

OH, and I HATE using the urban dictionary for ANYTHING like this, but the description of uncle tom here is VERY telling!!!!!!!

Of course you looked for the answer that is closest to what YOU think. How about quoting the top answer?

"A black man who will do anything to stay in good standing with "the white man" including betray his own people."

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Midnight Oil

9 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

Of course you looked for the answer that is closest to what YOU think. How about quoting the top answer?

"A black man who will do anything to stay in good standing with "the white man" including betray his own people."

You could also quote the one where some people are actually named:

A person of color, especially a black person who acts in a way so as to come across as trying to please or gain approval of the white-dominated establishment. Example of folks in the recent past accused of "Uncle Tom" behavior are Condoleezza Rice, Herman Cain, Allen West, Artur Davis, Angela McGlowan, Michelle Malkin (née Maglalang)

Mitt: Did you hear what Condi said about Obama?
Ryan: What what tell me?
Mitt: She said I'll be a much better world leader than Obama since I understand American exceptionalism.
Ryan: Love it. Gotta love them Uncle Tom wannabe's. They just so want to get our approval.

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seasoned

9 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

Of course you looked for the answer that is closest to what YOU think. How about quoting the top answer?

"A black man who will do anything to stay in good standing with "the white man" including betray his own people."

What you just said makes NO sense! If I find 50 people that disagree with me here. If I even found 50 THOUSAND! HECK, if I found 50 MILLION! The fact that if ONE person has such a a feeling about a relatively obscure reference, though I could find THOUSANDS, then I am right.

HECK, look at THIS: Uncle Tom syndrome - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Or THIS:

Steve Harvey: True Uncle Tom - YouTube

Or THIS:

Don Lemon Fires Back At Critics, 'Uncle Tom'...

I COULD spend all week backing this up, but I won't bother. BESIDES, there are even examples of RACISM(AND NOT FROM WHITES), and murder threats based on this. The stuff I listed here is relatively tame, even though it IS a reason for gangs and poverty.

So YEAH, this is FAR from rare!

Steve

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sbucciarel

Banned 9 years ago

It

Bill Cosby paid off women says ex-NBC employee - NY Daily News

Lisa Bonet Posts Cryptic Tweet About Bill Cosby Scandal -- Calls Situation "Karma" : Off-Key : Music Times

The Lisa Bonet story, plus a couple of others I thought were interesting

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TLTheLiberator

9 years ago

IMHO, the Cos is a victim of social media - nothing else. If someone was planning to sandbag him it could have happened a long time ago.

(after all that's happened like all the allegations and the almost trial etc.,)...

...He's the one who played with fire by writing another book and asking the internet to get involved etc., and boy, he's been burned to a crisp.

And for the record I think its very sad but I'm not sad because of it.

And...

Yes blacks have called other blacks "Uncle Toms" for many reasons and the absolute stupidest reason is if someone is fairly successful in life.

You normally hear that reason from someone who hasn't even graduated from high school.

All the other reasons for blacks calling other blacks Toms, such as so-called acting white etc., (or like any dominant group) are pretty normal when it comes to most minorities in most situations throughout history.

The Politicos...

Folks like Condi Rice and other black GOPers are called UTs because they are perceived by many blacks as joining someone hostile to black folk in order to get ahead.

One of my uncles was a GOPer back when the social and economic distinctions were a lot more blurry between the two parties than the are now. He said the line was shorter and he also had a bunch of military contracts circa 1968-1978

I personally am very slow and cautious about using that term on anyone, but there are famous black folks that I'm not very fond of and jealousy has nothing to do with it.

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sbucciarel Banned 9 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

Folks like Condi .

What part of keep politics out of it don't you understand? It's not allowed and we'd rather the thread stay open so we can discuss this.
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- TLTheLiberator 9 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by sbucciarel
  
  What part of keep politics out of it don't you understand? It's not allowed and we'd rather the thread stay open so we can discuss this.
  
  Since I was speaking on the Uncle Tom phenomenon and not speaking of actual politics I don't see any good reason for the mods to nuke this thread because of what I said.
  
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Midnight Oil 9 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

He's the one who played with fire by writing another book and asking the internet to get involved etc., and boy, he's been burned to a crisp.

Yeah, that was just an idiotic move.

Hey, we've got all this controversy stirring up, let's play Meme Me on Twitter.

That PR firm may be hard pressed to find future celebs as clients.
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discrat 9 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

IMHO, the Cos is a victim of social media - nothing else. If someone was planning to sandbag him it could have happened a long time ago.

.

Maybe Society is a victim because we did NOT have Social media all these years Cosby was seemingly doing this stuff

Social Media has its Pros and Cons. I think the Pros about it is we have an extensive form of communication that is available for anyone and everybody at anytime.

The Cons it is we have an extensive form of communication that is available for anyone and everybody at anytime.
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sbucciarel

Banned 9 years ago

Social media is just another form of communication. Social media didn't rape and drug women. Cosby did. Most of them benefited financially, but Cosby's problems are his own doing. I don't feel the least bit sorry for him. He chose his path. Thought his fame and power would get him through. It won't.

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Steven Wagenheim

9 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

Social media is just another form of communication. Social media didn't rape and drug women. Cosby did. Most of them benefited financially, but Cosby's problems are his own doing. I don't feel the least bit sorry for him. He chose his path. Thought his fame and power would get him through. It won't.

You know, I may be a royal pain in the ass sometimes, but the worst thing I ever did in my life is accidentally dropping a rifle on a girl's head.

We were playing army.

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discrat 9 years ago

Wonder how Cosby's wife deals with this ? How she runs it through her head ?
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- thunderbird 9 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by discrat
  
  Wonder how Cosby's wife deals with this ? How she runs it through her head ?
  
  At least one of Bill Cosby's victims thinks she knows about it and has known about it for decades.
  
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Kurt

9 years ago

In all fairness, Claude is an equal opportunity cereal rapist. Everyone from Captain Crunch to Count Chocula needs to be afraid...very very afraid.

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Mike Anthony 9 years ago

Originally Posted by Kurt

In all fairness, Claude is an equal opportunity cereal rapist. Everyone from Captain Crunch to Count Chocula needs to be afraid...very very afraid.

Thanks for he comedic timing on that.
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goodewealth

9 years ago

I have a question here....if a person consented to these acts all these years....(consent meaning=taken money for acts performed) Does one think it is okay to come back when the "well" has run dry or the bank account hits low digits to say "rape". I am asking because some of these sound very unfounded and some seem believable. Either way Bill will get his "if" he is doing all these terrible things to women. But, I honestly do not feel you have the "right" to return and holler rape after the fact if you excepted money from the beginning. That is the most desturbing part to me here. Also, I have another question if anyone dares to chime in.....Who said that the Uncle Tom belittlements came from politics?
"A black man who will do anything to stay in good standing with "the white man" including betray his own people."

The black man from history kept their mouths closed until the white man started having him beat his own kind because the white man wanted the black man to be hated by his own kind. So, we do need to speak where this actually came into play....facts always help a bit better to understand when it is used and how it is used.

I also don't agree with lines like ....."you sound white on the phone" or "you trying to act white" I only hear this verbiage in the South....as I am a Yankee...and it is normal to have proper etiquette and to speak with proper pronunciation where I am from. I really and truly to my core.....hate and this is a strong word...but that we choose to belittle ourselves and other races regardless of who they are. You see my birth certificate says "Black" by my grandmother was white and French mixed. I have cousins and relatives of mixed races so how can we be so narrow minded in all this. Rape is rape...I don't care who did it and what their status is ....but honestly "Otis" on the corner could have did this a dozen times and more over the years and he would not get this much publicity period.

I really am saddened by this whole thing deeply....This kind of mess keeps division!!!

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Matt Fulger

9 years ago

Originally Posted by goodewealth

I have a question here....if a person consented to these acts all these years....(consent meaning=taken money for acts performed) Does one think it is okay to come back when the "well" has run dry or the bank account hits low digits to say "rape". I am asking because some of these sound very unfounded and some seem believable. Either way Bill will get his "if" he is doing all these terrible things to women. But, I honestly do not feel you have the "right" to return and holler rape after the fact if you excepted money from the beginning. That is the most desturbing part to me here. Also, I have another question if anyone dares to chime in.....Who said that the Uncle Tom belittlements came from politics?
"A black man who will do anything to stay in good standing with "the white man" including betray his own people."

The black man from history kept their mouths closed until the white man started having him beat his own kind because the white man wanted the black man to be hated by his own kind. So, we do need to speak where this actually came into play....facts always help a bit better to understand when it is used and how it is used.

I also don't agree with lines like ....."you sound white on the phone" or "you trying to act white" I only hear this verbiage in the South....as I am a Yankee...and it is normal to have proper etiquette and to speak with proper pronunciation where I am from. I really and truly to my core.....hate and this is a strong word...but that we choose to belittle ourselves and other races regardless of who they are. You see my birth certificate says "Black" by my grandmother was white and French mixed. I have cousins and relatives of mixed races so how can we be so narrow minded in all this. Rape is rape...I don't care who did it and what their status is ....but honestly "Otis" on the corner could have did this a dozen times and more over the years and he would not get this much publicity period.

I really am saddened by this whole thing deeply....This kind of mess keeps division!!!

Amen to that! If only more people would see through all the BS as you have, there wouldn't be such division among the masses.

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discrat

9 years ago

I think it is amazing that Cosby is continuing his Tours with standing ovations, down n Florida at least.

It is hard to pinpoint. But this honestly does put up some red flags. For me at least.

Just the way he is able to go on with Life and perform his routine and just have seemingly NO conscience or at least showing little ( considering the gravity of the situation) reminds me of another type individual in Society that many of us fear.

Hint : It starts with a P

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sbucciarel

Banned 9 years ago

Originally Posted by discrat

Hint : It starts with a P

Yeah .... Playa only he used drugs to expedite the seduction process.

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Tom B

Banned 9 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

Yeah .... Playa only he used drugs to expedite the seduction process.

Putin used drugs, but they were more in line with ending competition and journalists. That is if the P stands for Putin.

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discrat

9 years ago

Claude,
Could you be so kindly to intervene here and educate these good souls to what the letter P may be?

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sbucciarel

Banned 9 years ago

Originally Posted by discrat

Claude,
Could you be so kindly to intervene here and educate these good souls to what the letter P may be?

I'm fairly certain, that without a degree in Psychiatry, or without even testing Cosby that you think he's a Psycopath. Kind of like armchair Psychology.

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

And most men use alcohol. Getting a woman drunk, with the hopes that she will have sex with you, is so common, (mostly with young men) it's half the reason men buy women a drink.

Having high hopes and raping someone or assaulting them sexually are two different things. Slipping something in the drink without the woman knowing about it is a crime. Even here, some of these women knew they were offered Qualudes and took them willingly from him, but never the less, if the advances/assault that occurred afterwards were true and not consensual it's still a crime whether they took the drugs willingly or not.

I haven't lived a sheltered life and know that a lot of men use alcohol to "loosen" up a woman's inhibitions in the hopes that he'll get laid.

Originally Posted by discrat

Having NO REMORSE is clearly one of the variables that measure if one is a Sociopath/Psychopath

There are some very clear differences between Sociopaths and Psychopaths, but again, without being tested by a professional, it's really not possible to make clinical diagnoses.

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discrat

9 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

I'm fairly certain, that without a degree in Psychiatry, or without even testing Cosby that you think he's a Psycopath. Kind of like armchair Psychology.

Having high hopes and raping someone or assaulting them sexually are two different things.

There are some very clear differences between Sociopaths and Psychopaths, but again, without being tested by a professional, it's really not possible to make clinical diagnoses.

Suzy,
Sorry your wrong
The words Sociopath and Psychopath are interchangeable.

Really.

Talk to any medical profession.

Its all semantics.

One of my best friends is a Psychiatrist. I know
( so contrary to your false assumption no arm chair psychology here

)

Yes, there are a few that make a distinguish. <===== ( so please do not come up with some internet quote or example that tries to refute this . I know I have seen them

)

The fact is a large segment (though, a minority that do not) of the medical professions makes no distinguished observation. I know some say sociopath is more Nurture characteristics( anti social personality developed from Worldly conditions) and psychopath is more Nature characteristics ( born with).

But I am talking about real world medical professionals and how they view this

And all psychopaths are not violent just like all sociopaths are not non- violent !! Many people try to state this. And its incorrect

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sbucciarel

Banned 9 years ago

Originally Posted by discrat

Suzy,
Sorry your wrong
The words Sociopath and Psychopath are interchangeable.

Really.

Talk to any medical profession.

Its all semantics.

One of my best friends is a Psychiatrist. I know
( so contrary to your false assumption no arm chair psychology here

)

Yes, there are a few that make a distinguish. <===== ( so please do not come up with some internet quote or example that tries to refute this

)

The fact is a large segment of the medical professions makes no distinguished observation. ( i know some say socio is more Nurture characteristics( anti social personality developed from Worldly conditons) and psychopath is more Nature characteristics ( born with).

But I am talking about real world medical professionals and how they view this

And all psychopaths are not violent just like all sociopaths are not non- violent !! Many people try to state this. And its incorrect

I read books too. We even have libraries here.

Research suggests that, "psychopaths are a stable proportion of any population, can be from any segment of society, may constitute a distinct taxonomical class forged by frequency-dependent natural selection, and that the muting of the social emotions is the proximate mechanism that enables psychopaths to pursue their self-centered goals without felling the pangs of guilt. Sociopaths are more the products of adverse environmental experiences that affect autonomic nervous system and neurological development that may lead to physiological responses similar to those of psychopaths. Antisocial personality disorder is a legal/clinical label that may be applied to both psychopaths and sociopaths" (Walsh & Wu, 2008).

Sociopathy vs. Psychopathy | Forensic Focus

How to Tell a Sociopath from a Psychopath | Psychology Today

Sociopath vs psychopath - the differences listed

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Claude Whitacre

9 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

Sociopath vs psychopath - the differences listed

You're both right.

The link Suzanne gave, describes the differences clearly. Socio...mean social. The disorder is brought on by their environment (and usually some brain abnormalities too) Psychopaths are born that way, or suffer physical brain damage.

And Discrat is right, in that they are used interchangeably by everyone except psychiatrists that specialize in the disorder.

The worst cases have both brain disorders and an abusive childhood.

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sbucciarel

Banned 9 years ago

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

You're both right.

The link Suzanne gave, describes the differences clearly. Socio...mean social. The disorder is brought on by their environment (and usually some brain abnormalities too) Psychopaths are born that way, or suffer physical brain damage.

And Discrat is right, in that they are used interchangeably by everyone except psychiatrists that specialize in the disorder.

The worst cases have both brain disorders and an abusive childhood.

Yeah, I'm aware that they are often used interchangably, but found this difference interesting.

A psychopath will not have empathy ... period ... for anyone. They cannot.

A sociopath can form a few close relationships and would feel some guilt if they harmed someone, physically or emotionally in that small circle.

But yeah ... I imagine someone with both the brain damage of the psychopath and the abuse of a sociopath would likely end up being the most likely candidate for being a serial killer.

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thunderbird

9 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

I read books too. We even have libraries here.

How to Tell a Sociopath from a Psychopath | Psychology Today

Sociopath vs psychopath - the differences listed

We have books here too, LOL plus Internet and Wikipedia. I can write anything I want; I have a disclaimer. Bill Cosby sure seems to be a psychopath since he shows discipline and planning not typically characteristic of sociopaths.

One thing I don't buy is the notion that he could be doing that for decades without other folks in entertainment knowing about it. Oh, yeah, they have known about it for decades. They just act shocked and appalled when it becomes an issue with the public. Same applies to Jimmy Savile of the BBC in the UK and Jian Ghomeshi of CBC in Canada. Usually a lawsuit of some sort, or perhaps a viral video, precedes their "suddenly" becoming aware of it.

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sbucciarel

Banned 9 years ago

Originally Posted by thunderbird

We have books here too, LOL plus Internet and Wikipedia. I can write anything I want; I have a disclaimer. Bill Cosby sure seems to be a psychopath since he shows discipline and planning not typically characteristic of sociopaths.

One thing I don't buy is the notion that he could be doing that for decades without other folks in entertainment not knowing about it. Oh, yeah, they have known about it for decades. They just act shocked and appalled when it becomes an issue with the public. Same applies to Jimmy Savile of the BBC in the UK and Jian Ghomeshi of CBC in Canada. Usually a lawsuit of some sort, or perhaps a viral video, precedes their "suddenly" becoming aware of it.

I think Hollywood and well really, a lot of institutions have a cover up policy when it comes to the rich and famous secrets. I imagine that a lot more people than are telling knew about Cosby. I find it interesting that all of those on the Cosby show are remaining silent. I doubt seriously that he abused anyone on that show. It would be too close to home and if it blew up during the show's lifetime, it would be an enormous scandal. He seemed to choose young and aspiring actresses and models ... those who thought that any attention from Cosby could bring them fame and fortune.

"The casting couch" certainly is no secret in Hollywood. Many famous actresses have gotten their fame from their performance on those couches before they got their parts in movies.

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thunderbird

9 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

<snip>

"The casting couch" certainly is no secret in Hollywood. Many famous actresses have gotten their fame from their performance on those couches before they got their parts in movies.

That would more true of the past than the present. Nowadays, from what I've seen, they get their roles by being good at acting. The casting couch is generally the lower echelon of sleazes who actually have no intention of helping aspiring performers advance their careers. In fact, that is a usually quick way to trash one's career in entertainment.

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whateverpedia

9 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

I think Hollywood and well really, a lot of institutions have a cover up policy when it comes to the rich and famous secrets.

Have a look at some of the stories coming out of the UK at the moment.

First there was Jimmy Saville, then Rolf Harris, and now a cabal of elites are being linked to a pedophile ring that sacrificed young boys. According to the emerging stories, this was known about and hushed up by the Thatcher administration.

Tebbit hints at sex abuse cover-up as pressure over missing files intensifies | UK news | The Guardian

A ‘big political cover-up’ of 1980s pedophile-ring in U.K. Parliament? - The Washington Post

Margaret Thatcher 'personally covered up' child abuse allegations against senior ministers - Mirror Online

The alleged paedophile ring at the heart of the British Establishment - Telegraph

Home Office

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sbucciarel

Banned 9 years ago

Originally Posted by whateverpedia

Have a look at some of the stories coming out of the UK at the moment.

First there was Jimmy Saville, then Rolf Harris, and now a cabal of elites are being linked to a pedophile ring that sacrificed young boys. According to the emerging stories, this was known about and hushed up by the Thatcher administration.

Tebbit hints at sex abuse cover-up as pressure over missing files intensifies | UK news | The Guardian

A 'big political cover-up' of 1980s pedophile-ring in U.K. Parliament? - The Washington Post

Margaret Thatcher 'personally covered up' child abuse allegations against senior ministers - Mirror Online

The alleged paedophile ring at the heart of the British Establishment - Telegraph

Home Office

Yeah .. I read most of this some time ago and was bewildered how so many covered all this up for so long. Boggles the mind, especially when children are involved.

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Claude Whitacre

9 years ago

Originally Posted by thunderbird

. Usually a lawsuit of some sort, or perhaps a viral video, precedes their "suddenly" becoming aware of it.

Suddenly became aware of it...

But also suddenly were really bothered by it.

It's human nature. It isn't just celebrities. It's all of us.

We all have secrets. And we all keep secrets about someone else.

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

He seemed to choose young and aspiring actresses and models ... those who thought that any attention from Cosby could bring them fame and fortune. .

I don't know if he really picked them out. You have women coming to you....expressing interest....needing you....and if you have certain proclivities, you take advantage of the opportunity. What's interesting to me, is that he really seemed to enjoy the "Drunk or drugged" actions of the women. It wasn't just that he wanted sex, he wanted them to be ...I know know..helpless...or submissive. That seems to run through these stories. Oh well, some men like bondage...I guess his fantasy was drunk/drugged women.

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

"The casting couch" certainly is no secret in Hollywood. Many famous actresses have gotten their fame from their performance on those couches before they got their parts in movies.

I'm guessing it's worse than that. I have read unsubstantiated stories of leading actors choosing their leading lady, as a way to bed them.

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sbucciarel

Banned 9 years ago

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

I don't know if he really picked them out. You have women coming to you....expressing interest....needing you....and if you have certain proclivities, you take advantage of the opportunity. What's interesting to me, is that he really seemed to enjoy the "Drunk or drugged" actions of the women. It wasn't just that he wanted sex, he wanted them to be ...I know know..helpless...or submissive. That seems to run through these stories. Oh well, some men like bondage...I guess his fantasy was drunk/drugged women.

A couple at least reported that they were approached by him or one of his staff, so I don't know how many of them you could lump into the groupie thing.

But the drug thing is interesting. It's in all of the stories, and not all of the stories ended in actual sex. Some ended with the drugged woman just "fondling" him. It does seem like he had a thing for helpless, drugged women. Maybe it was control. Who knows. It's sick.

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Claude Whitacre

9 years ago

The Ferguson verdict is coming down. I bet Cosby was never so glad to hear anything in his life. Tomorrow we'll all have another bone to chew on.....another loud noise to draw our attention.

By the way, what was the last one? Oh, yeah..Ebola.

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TimPhelan 9 years ago

Claude, are you trying to get this thread closed or deleted?

Mods, please ignore Claude's lapse in judgment. He's a sociopath after all.
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sbucciarel

Banned 9 years ago

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

The Ferguson verdict is coming down. I bet Cosby was never so glad to hear anything in his life. Tomorrow we'll all have another bone to chew on.....another loud noise to draw our attention.

Like anyone doesn't know how that's going to turn out already.

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Claude Whitacre 9 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

Like anyone doesn't know how that's going to turn out already.

Yup. And it's playing out as we speak.
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Claude Whitacre

9 years ago

Originally Posted by discrat

I think it is amazing that Cosby is continuing his Tours with standing ovations, down n Florida at least.

It is hard to pinpoint. But this honestly does put up some red flags. For me at least.

Just the way he is able to go on with Life and perform his routine and just have seemingly NO conscience or at least showing little ( considering the gravity of the situation) reminds me of another type individual in Society that many of us fear.

Hint : It starts with a P

He's not a Psychopath. At least not in the way most define that word.

It could be that he has no remorse for his actions. It could also be that he doesn't remember his actions as being criminal.

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

Yeah .... Playa only he used drugs to expedite the seduction process.

And most men use alcohol. Getting a woman drunk, with the hopes that she will have sex with you, is so common, (mostly with young men) it's half the reason men buy women a drink.

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Tom B

Banned 9 years ago

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

He's not a Psychopath. At least not in the way most define that word.

It could be that he has no remorse for his actions. It could also be that he doesn't remember his actions as being criminal.

No, Putin has no remorse.

I figured why not interject some more politics since this thread went haywire a long time ago. hah

Not like that other guy who starts with a T who said that thing that starts with an R about that person who coughs a lot because of that sickness that starts with a G.

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discrat

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

He's not a Psychopath. At least not in the way most define that word.

It could be that he has no remorse for his actions. It could also be that he doesn't remember his actions as being criminal.

Actually, having NO REMORSE is a clear trait that has been proven over and over again by experts as a predominant trait in Psychopathy .

There is just no denying that.

There is a Test that quantifies whether you are a Sociopath/Psychopath or not. Very reliable test that was developed by Robert Hare.
Basically this is the gold standard in detecting whether one has the traits of Psychopathy .
Hare Psychopathy Checklist - the versions and the details

Having NO REMORSE is clearly one of the variables that measure if one is a Sociopath/Psychopath

I definitely would NOT write it off. I can't say one way or the other with Cosby.

Maye not in the way MOST define it. But possibly in the way Medical Professionals define it he could be.

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Claude Whitacre

9 years ago

Originally Posted by discrat

Actually, having NO REMORSE is a clear trait that has been proven over and over again by experts as a predominant trait in Psychopathy .
.

What you are saying is true. But your logic is faulty.

Having no remorse is a sign of a psychopath, if they have committed terrible crimes against other people.

It's entirely possible that Cosby simply doesn't see his actions as a crime. And if that's the case, it means he's either in denial, or his actions, at the time....weren't that out of the ordinary.

And helping people out financially (after the event) could indicate guilt.(not a psychopathic trait) But it could also indicate that he really had feelings for the girls, and they had feelings for him.

I'm not justifying his actions, I'm arguing your logic.

Originally Posted by discrat

Not trying to pick on you but this viewpoint is really dissipating and archaiec. It is just not true anymore. I know in the 80s and 90s when I was in College this was a prevalent way of thinking.

Shoot, I am my buddies did it all the time. Sloppy drunk sex,

I know I am a little younger than you so I see it more.

These actions wouldn't be tolerated today, and they would be described as a crime. But these events happened in the 70s and 80s (If I remember correctly). They didn't happen today. So, it was a different tolerance back then.

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discrat

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

What you are saying is true. But your logic is faulty.

Having no remorse is a sign of a psychopath, if they have committed terrible crimes against other people.

It's entirely possible that Cosby simply doesn't see his actions as a crime. And if that's the case, it means he's either in denial, or his actions, at the time....weren't that out of the ordinary.

.

This is just NOT true. You are misunderstanding Psyhocpathy.

It does not have to be 'Crime based'. Actually in MOST cases psychopathy deals with circumstances that are NOT

A Psychopath can do totally legal things to people that can destroy lives and make them incredibly destructive.

Example.... Spreading false lies about Co - Workers saying that they slept with the Boss and not having any remorse about it. Or having affairs with married people and not having any remorse.
Or lying to parents, spouses, siblings over and over again without a thought to it.

These are ALL examples of real live scenarios that have and do involve people with psychopathic tendencies.

No remorse, no illegalities committed but a trail of destruction

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Claude Whitacre

9 years ago

Originally Posted by discrat

This is just NOT true. You are misunderstanding Psyhocpathy.

It does not have to be 'Crime based'. And in MOST cases psychopathy deals with circumstances that are NOT

A Psychopath can do totally legal things to people that can destroy lives and make them incredibly destructive.

Example.... Spreading false lies about Co - Workers saying that they slept with the Boss and not having any remorse about it. Or having affairs with married people and not having any remorse.
Or lying to parents, spouses, siblings over and over again without a thought to it.

These are ALL examples of real live scenarios that have and do involve people with psychopathic tendencies.

No remorse, no illegalities committed but a trail of destruction

I stated my first sentence so that it could be mis-interpreted. My mistake. These actions don't have to be legally "Crimes". It can be any destructive behavior toward others. I used the word "Crimes" too broadly.

But idea behind it is still valid.

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discrat

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

I stated my first sentence so that it could be mis-interpreted. These actions don't have to be legally "Crimes". It can be any destructive behavior toward others. I used the word "Crimes" too broadly.

But idea behind it is still valid.

uhmmmm.... ohh- kaaaay

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discrat

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

And most men use alcohol. Getting a woman drunk, with the hopes that she will have sex with you, is so common, (mostly with young men) it's half the reason men buy women a drink.

Not trying to pick on you but this viewpoint is really dissipating and archaiec. It is just not true anymore. I know in the 80s and 90s when I was in College this was a prevalent way of thinking.

Shoot, I am my buddies did it all the time. Sloppy drunk sex,

I know I am a little younger than you so I see it more.

But the fact is anymore...IT IS NOT RELEVANT.

There is way too much on the line for anyone to be doing this anymore. At least the part where you get a girl so drunk she is nearly blacked out

If you do do this you are really playing with fire and you might find yourself with Cleo making you pick up the soap in the shower

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whateverpedia 9 years ago

Originally Posted by discrat

Hint : It starts with a P

Politician?
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sbucciarel Banned 9 years ago

Originally Posted by goodewealth

I have a question here....if a person consented to these acts all these years....

I wouldn't say the women consented to the incidents that they call rape. They were drugged and made to do things that they did not consent to at that time. At least 8 of them accepted money from him on an ongoing basis and at least one had her college tuition paid for by Cosby. At least several of them saw him and even had affairs with him after the incidents. That makes these victims less sympathetic to probably many people than your classic rape victim, but I wouldn't call what Cosby did consensual and race doesn't have anything to do with this conversation.
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Ybholy

9 years ago

Only one man . He must be powerful o . He tried and he is still planning to do another one

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Richard Van

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Ybholy

Only one man . He must be powerful o . He tried and he is still planning to do another one

Planning to do another what? Rape?

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Claude Whitacre

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Richard Van

Planning to do another what? Rape?

Richard;
You actually made enough sense out of that post to reply? You're smarter than I am.

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TimPhelan

9 years ago

Latest one was 17 when she met Cosby and was one of the Jane Does:

Bill Cosby Accuser Says He Met Her Parents, Then Pressured Her for a Sex Act : People.com

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Karen Blundell

9 years ago

I'm sorry - I still say innocent until proven guilty -

I despise lynch mobs -

that being said, if Mr. Cosby did in fact commit these crimes, then, yes, he is scum, and deserves to be punished.

Let's have some hard evidence first, though, before we pronounce his guilt. Has there been any yet, besides the words of these women? If so, please post it - and then and only then will I be convinced.

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thunderbird

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Karen Blundell

I'm sorry - I still say innocent until proven guilty -

I despise lynch mobs -

that being said, if Mr. Cosby did in fact commit these crimes, then, yes, he is scum, and deserves to be punished.

Let's have some hard evidence first, though, before we pronounce his guilt. Has there been any yet, besides the words of these women? If so, please post it - and then and only then will I be convinced.

I'm not a lawyer but tor me the words of a multitude of disparate women who don't know each other, thereofre wouldn't have conspired to jointly trash their own reputations for the sake of justice, constitutes evidence. In the "justice" system, victims of rape or domestic abuse often get re-victimized, first by the public, then by the courts. I think, at this point, Bill Cosby is primarily protected by the statute of limitations. Before that he used his power, drugs, wealth, and influence to break-down, intimidate, or buy-off vulnerable young women, including teenagers.
‘Nobody suspected': Ex-NBC employee claims he was a "fixer" for Bill Cosby to pay off women | fox8.com

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Steven Wagenheim

9 years ago

This whole thing is very bizarre.

On the one hand, why would all these women all of a sudden decide to come forward if it wasn't true? I mean did they all get up one day and decide, "Hey, let's destroy Bill Cosby's reputation cause like, why not?" Did they arbitrarily reach into a hat filled with names and pick his out?

On the other hand, none of these women have offered any actual proof of anything. I heard some talk about a money order? Even if he gave money to somebody or even a number of somebodys, we don't; know what that money was for. Not really.

Right now, with the actual evidence that we have in front of us, this could go either way.

The only reason that I am inclined to believe this is all true is because it just doesn't make sense for all these women to go on a witch hunt for this guy after all these years unless there wasn't something to it.

And yet, how many of these women are fine upstanding credible sources? I mean if Betty Ford had come forward and said, "Yes, he's guilty" then I'd at least have somebody with a history of honor and credibility behind her stating this.

So as you can read from everything above, I am about as close to being on the fence about this as you can get. Quite honestly, I don't know what happened. Nobody does.

And if you think you do know, let me ask you this.

Would you bet your life, either way (guilty or not guilty) on these allegations? I know I wouldn't.

And normally, I feel the same way as Karen, but if you put me up against a wall and put a gun to my head and told me I had to decide one way or the other, I would have to say he did these things because all of this "smoke" just makes no sense at all unless there was some fire behind it, even if there is some exaggeration of the "facts" going on.

This may be the most bizarre story about a celebrity we're likely to read about in a very long time. And the truth is, we may NEVER know what the truth is. I mean even if a woman could come forward and present DNA evidence that they had sex, we don't know if it was consensual or not. And I seriously doubt any DNA evidence still exists all these years later.

I honestly don't know what to make of any of this.

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sbucciarel

Banned 9 years ago

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

On the other hand, none of these women have offered any actual proof of anything. I heard some talk about a money order? Even if he gave money to somebody or even a number of somebodys, we don't; know what that money was for. Not really.

They don't need proof to recount their experiences. He isn't going to be arrested. They had nothing to gain at this point in speaking out. There is no proof for decades old crimes. To demand it is ridiculous. Just the fact that what is now up to 17 women all have very very similar stories about their experiences with Cosby is enough for me. They didn't conspire together.

This story came out again because of a comedian calling Cosby a rapist in his show and then Cosby asking the Internet to meme him and they memed him with rape jokes. That's why all the media grabbed on to these women's stories. Whether the women (some of them, not all) gained from this scandal, is irrelevant. Crimes were committed by someone who apparently thought he'd never have to answer to them.

He got away with it as far as the justice system goes, but not in the court of public opinion. He ain't America's Dad any longer.

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Steven Wagenheim 9 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

They don't need proof to recount their experiences. .

Are they recounting their experiences or making up stories? Do we really know for certain? Are you so sure you'd bet your life that he did these things? I'm not.

As I said, it doesn't make sense for these women to suddenly decide they want to bury Bill Cosby if there wasn't at least some truth to this. But I'm not ready to lynch him just yet until I hear something that is so damning that it just has to be true.

So far, I have yet to hear that one thing.
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sbucciarel Banned 9 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

Latest one was 17 when she met Cosby and was one of the Jane Does:

Bill Cosby Accuser Says He Met Her Parents, Then Pressured Her for a Sex Act : People.com

I read that story. Really disgusted me. He seemed to have a thing for teenagers.
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Richard Van 9 years ago

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

Richard;
You actually made enough sense out of that post to reply? You're smarter than I am.

I doubt that my friend. My brain is like a small pea.

The thing is Claude, I'd just read several of his other posts before that and I just managed to get a glimmer of sense out of that one, though I still think I was barking up completely the wrong tree.
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GontrandBIJ

9 years ago

I haven't followed or read anything about this scandal. But one thing is clear though: we live in a day and age where the media doesn't care about the truth. All they care about is selling stories. So I don't want to hear anything about it, since 80% of it will be bullshit. The real truth will never come out.

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Raydal

9 years ago

These women seem to have more respect for Bill Cosby than people
did for President Bill Clinton. So many say that they didn't think anyone
would believe their stories, but it wasn't the same for Clinton.

-Ray Edwards

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Hogre

9 years ago

I actually agree with Caren and Steven...He may have done all those things to those poor women ...but just to play the devils advocate...maybe,just maybe Cosby promised these women career advance and a part in a show...dazzled them with stardom...and then used that to get them to bed (despicable thing to do, no excuse for that)...and when they saw it ain't gonna happen...these women held their grudges...and decided to kick him when he's down...
The old proverb "hell hath no fury like a woman scorned" may (maybe) apply here.

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sbucciarel

Banned 9 years ago

Originally Posted by Hogre

...dazzled them with stardom...and then used that to get them to bed

Along with a big fat dose of drugs in their drinks. Sure.

There's only one of these I don't believe ... #7 because of her criminal history
Bill Cosby accusers list: Sexual assault, rape, drugs feature in women's stories.

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Matt Fulger

9 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

Along with a big fat dose of drugs in their drinks. Sure.

There's only one of these I don't believe ... #7 because of her criminal history
Bill Cosby accusers list: Sexual assault, rape, drugs feature in women's stories.

So because someone has a "criminal history" of "drug trafficking" they can't be a victim of rape? Is that how it works?

You do realize that those charges could be completely trumped up, right? I know people who've been charged with drug trafficking where the trafficking really consisted of them trying to get their drugs back to the house to do them.

Even if she was definitely trafficking drugs, that doesn't necessarily exempt her from some a**hole man raping her.

Also, as far as these women waiting so long to report any of this stuff, that isn't surprising at all. They most likely would NOT have been believed and they were most likely afraid to report any of this. It's not uncommon for rape victims to be treated more like the criminal than the person doing the raping.

I know this from having the unfortunate experience of knowing 2 women who were raped and did report it only to be ridiculed and humiliated and called liars by the authorities and even by some of their own family members. And I can't even count the victims of child molestation that have tried to report it only to be called liars and get punished for telling on the molester.

Anyway, I don't know if ANY of these women were raped by Cosby or not cuz I wasn't there, but I wouldn't be surprised even a little if they were all true and many more to come. But I certainly wouldn't discount the idea that a person could have been raped solely on the fact that they have a "criminal history".

That's kind of like saying someone with a "criminal history" couldn't possibly be scammed on the internet.

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sbucciarel

Banned 9 years ago

Originally Posted by Matt Fulger

So because someone has a "criminal history" of "drug trafficking" they can't be a victim of rape? Is that how it works?

If it were just drug trafficking, maybe, but it's not just drug trafficking. She was convicted of fraud (ID theft) and battery as well, so yes, I discount her story completely, as she is a proven con artist.

Turns out she has a long criminal history. Traitz got out of prison in 2012 after serving more than 3 years for trafficking Oxycodone, possession of a controlled substance and obtaining a controlled substance by fraud.

She's been arrested and/or charged with various other crimes ... including ID fraud, battery, theft and various drug offenses.

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Matt Fulger

9 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

If it were just drug trafficking, maybe, but it's not just drug trafficking. She was convicted of fraud (ID theft) and battery as well, so yes, I discount her story completely, as she is a proven con artist.

Oh, well in that case, it settles it. She couldn't possibly have been raped cuz well, you know she's a criminal. Nice logic you got going on there.

And Bill Cosby couldn't possibly have committed any of these rapes, cuz well, you know, he IS famous and all and "America's Father". So he's completely innocent.

Plus, people with NO "criminal history" are always 100% honest at all times.

I do understand that her credibility isn't good, but that doesn't mean she wasn't raped.

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sbucciarel

Banned 9 years ago

Originally Posted by Matt Fulger

Oh, well in that case, it settles it. She couldn't possibly have been raped cuz well, you know she's a criminal. Nice logic you got going on there.

And Bill Cosby couldn't possibly have committed any of these rapes, cuz well, you know, he IS famous and all and "America's Father". So he's completely innocent.

Plus, people with NO "criminal history" are always 100% honest at all times.

I do understand that her credibility isn't good, but that doesn't mean she wasn't raped.

... and you aren't quoting me when you say (in case you haven't actually read the thread, which I suspect is the case)

And Bill Cosby couldn't possibly have committed any of these rapes, cuz well, you know, he IS famous and all and "America's Father". So he's completely innocent.

Plus, people with NO "criminal history" are always 100% honest at all times.

... but if YOU want to believe her, that's your choice. I discount her story. I don't need the story of convicted thief, fraudster, and batterer, plus drug distributor to prove in my mind that Cosby is a serial rapist.

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Kay King

9 years ago

Here's the problem I have with the story as a whole:

Timeline: Abuse Charges Against Bill Cosby -- Vulture

Reminds me a bit of the Woody Allen publicity (fueled by Mia Farrow when her son got a new job at MSNBC)....stories that come back 8-10 years (or more) after they first appeared. With Cosby there was nothing from 2006 on UNTIL this reporting in 2010.

I don't know where the truth is - don't much care for that matter. I was repelled, however, watching one of the women interviewed. All these years and her words and facial expressions were what I would call vicious. Seemed over the top for something that she didn't mention for 10 years.

Just my opinion - Cosby to me is a comedian. BUT - he's been reviled recently for his stance on racial issues and his refusal to "go along". Convenient this old story would "come out" now....but, again, just my opinion.

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seasoned

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

Here's the problem I have with the story as a whole:

Timeline: Abuse Charges Against Bill Cosby -- Vulture

Reminds me a bit of the Woody Allen publicity (fueled by Mia Farrow when her son got a new job at MSNBC)....stories that come back 8-10 years (or more) after they first appeared. With Cosby there was nothing from 2006 on UNTIL this reporting in 2010.

I don't know where the truth is - don't much care for that matter. I was repelled, however, watching one of the women interviewed. All these years and her words and facial expressions were what I would call vicious. Seemed over the top for something that she didn't mention for 10 years.

Just my opinion - Cosby to me is a comedian. BUT - he's been reviled recently for his stance on racial issues and his refusal to "go along". Convenient this old story would "come out" now....but, again, just my opinion.

Some people have done HORRIBLE things to me, and if I met them again, I would NOT be kind! I wish I had been old enough to sue some of them, and that the FBI, and bankruptcy courts, cared more about the public than they cared about the perpetrator and "getting it off of their books". I would be filthy rich, and HAPPY.

So I can sympathize with not reporting it, and can very much relate to the deep seated anger.

AGAIN, I am not saying that it happened, only that those actions don't mean it didn't.

Steve

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TimPhelan

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

- he's been reviled recently for his stance on racial issues and his refusal to "go along". Convenient this old story would "come out" now....

Convenient ... Now? Why now? Cosby has been saying those things for many years. There's nothing going on now that makes these stories any more "convenient".

I also don't understand your reaction to a rape victim being angry or vicious in her words. I haven't been raped but from what I understand it's something that affects a person for many years, if not for their entire life. Sure, they are going to be angry.

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discrat

9 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

I also don't understand your reaction to a rape victim being angry or vicious in her words. I haven't been raped but from what I understand it's something that affects a person for many years, if not for their entire life. Sure, they are going to be angry.

Tim,
I agree.this statement about someone who could potentially have been a rape victim is unreal.

.
This is a shining example of one reason why we have circumstances where victims are afraid to come out and do NOT come out because of people who will criticize them for their "true, angry and viscous feelings "

We have no idea if this particularly woman could have been 'viscous' with her feelings in the last 10 years or not.

Just because it was not on TV doesn't mean she was not full of these feelings.

it can really be a no win situation for many of these victims.

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Matt Fulger

9 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

... and you aren't quoting me when you say (in case you haven't actually read the thread, which I suspect is the case)

Well, then you suspect wrong since I've read this entire thread. But good try.

I admit that I was being lazy and only specifically quoted your post, rather than using the multi quote feature. But since I suspect YOU have read the entire thread as well, you already know who that part about Cosby being famous means he's innocent was directed towards.

At any rate, I thought the sarcasm of my post was quite obvious. I was simply showing different extremes of the type of logic you and others are using to base your opinions.

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

... but if YOU want to believe her, that's your choice. I discount her story. I don't need the story of convicted thief, fraudster, and batterer, plus drug distributor to prove in my mind that Cosby is a serial rapist.

I never said whether or not I believed any of these stories. My point was that your logic in thinking she must be lying simply because she does have a "criminal history" is seriously flawed. With your logic, all a serial rapist would need to do to get away with it is to target women with a prior criminal history. Case closed.

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sbucciarel

Banned 9 years ago

Originally Posted by Matt Fulger

I never said whether or not I believed any of these stories. My point was that your logic in thinking she must be lying simply because she does have a "criminal history" is seriously flawed. With your logic, all a serial rapist would need to do to get away with it is to target women with a prior criminal history. Case closed.

My logic is that there is sufficient number of stories from women who haven't spent their lives victimizing people to discount her altogether. Simply ... her story is not needed for me to form an opinion. Since she has a history of fraud, she might smell money in all this press and want to jump on the bandwagon. Anything is possible.

Originally Posted by Kay King

I don't know where the truth is - don't much care for that matter. I was repelled, however, watching one of the women interviewed. All these years and her words and facial expressions were what I would call vicious. Seemed over the top for something that she didn't mention for 10 years.

Just my opinion - Cosby to me is a comedian. BUT - he's been reviled recently for his stance on racial issues and his refusal to "go along". Convenient this old story would "come out" now....but, again, just my opinion.

13 of those women were all in the first case as Jane Does that was reported to the police. The DA believed or found Constand credible and found Cosby evasive. It really isn't that a lot of these women aren't on record, because 13 of them were willing to testify in a criminal case that became a civil case instead, settled out of court.

Bill Cosby accusers list: Sexual assault, rape, drugs feature in women's stories.

In addition, one of the women was slated to have her story published by a magazine, and Cosby offered them an exclusive from him if they didn't publish her story. They went for the deal.

Mizrahi made contact with a second woman, Beth Ferrier, who alleged that she too had been drugged and sexually molested by the entertainer. The Enquirer brought Ferrier to Los Angeles from her home in Denver, where she was then working as a model, and Mizrahi interviewed her and arranged for her to undergo a lie detector test.

“She passed the polygraph test with flying colors,” Mizrahi told the Guardian. “She had a very, very detailed description of what allegedly happened which I still remember because it was so haunting.
Cosby's lawyers strong-armed tabloid into ditching story on rape claims | World news | The Guardian

The Pennsylvania prosecutor who looked into the case has said that while he didn't bring charges because the available evidence was not sufficient, he found Constand "credible" and found Cosby "evasive." After prosecutors declined to charge him, Constand filed a civil suit against Cosby for $150 million; her suit cited, anonymously, 13 other women who alleged that he had sexually assaulted them. (Some of those women, referred to as "Jane Does" in legal language, have since identified themselves publicly and are mentioned below.

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Matt Fulger

9 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

My logic is that there is sufficient number of stories from women who haven't spent their lives victimizing people to discount her altogether. Simply ... her story is not needed for me to form an opinion. Since she has a history of fraud, she might smell money in all this press and want to jump on the bandwagon. Anything is possible.

Point taken. You are right, of course. Anything is possible. She could be out to grab some quick cash OR she could have really been raped. Who knows? Only Bill Cosby and the woman in question know the truth behind her story. But I definitely see your point now.

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unidentified

9 years ago

Life is all about disappointments.

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sbucciarel Banned 9 years ago

Originally Posted by unidentified

Life is all about disappointments.

... yes, disappointments and assmonkeys posting completely irrelevant one liners to get their post count up.
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anynewsbd

9 years ago

I don't think so because he is former famous actor

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Richard Van 9 years ago

Originally Posted by anynewsbd

I don't think so because he is former famous actor

Oh dear. Oh deary deary me.

You have a news site. An actual news site and despite that, because someone was (and actually still is) a famous actor, you seem to think they're incapable of rape.

Going forward I'd look up facts, do some research and give up thinking.

I don't know if he did or didn't but I'd never in a million years think that just because someone is famous (be it acting or otherwise) they can't do bad things. Just like Jimmy Saville, Rolf Harris, Mike Tyson....Do I really need to carry this on?

By the way, I've said this before, you're link is broken to your news site.
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whateverpedia 9 years ago

Originally Posted by anynewsbd

I don't think so because he is former famous actor

That wraps it up then. Case closed.
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seasoned 9 years ago

Originally Posted by anynewsbd

I don't think so because he is former famous actor

A LOT of famous actors went through the kind of thing Cosby is, and were PROVEN to have done it. And who could forget some, like Michael Jackson! Just yesterday, I watched an interview with a famous person, and someone asked HIM why so many rich people are jerks. He said, though he is NOT the first to say this, that wealth merely AMPLIFIES who you are. Say you are dirt broke, have no time, and are really BAD! You may act NICE to get food and help. If you suddenly get filthy rich, you could start a company giving school kids colored water instead of milk, and get even richer and just not care. Meanwhile, a guy down on his luck may be mad at everything, a guy gives him a burger, he gets cleaned up, comes up with an idea, and starts a nice charity or something that really helps.

In a way, poverty limits damage, even if it may limit success too.

Anyway, rich famous people ATTRACT such opportunities, and some DO take them.

Steve
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Rod Cortez

9 years ago

I'm not quite sure where the truth is at in this one either, but there are a couple of things that make me wonder on what's really going on.

If these accusations aren't true, why isn't Bill Cosby going after these women for making false accusations? I would think an innocent person would behave differently. And a famous person, even more so. I can't wrap my head around that.

His response is also amusing, "I don't respond to innuendos." He was quoted as saying recently in multiple media outlets.

What???? These aren't "innuendos". These women aren't simply implying something; they are flat out saying they were either sexually molested in one way or they were flat out raped.

To my way of thinking, Bill Cosby is not behaving like an innocent man. An innocent man would fight tooth and nail to defend his reputation, his honor, and all the good he's done in this world.

He's behaving more like someone who has something to hide and is hoping by not responding that, in time, people will eventually forget this. Since that tactic has worked for him in the past.

RoD

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Claude Whitacre

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Rod Cortez

I'm not quite sure where the truth is at in this one either, but there are a couple of things that make me wonder on what's really going on.

If these accusations aren't true, why isn't Bill Cosby going after these women for making false accusations? I would think an innocent person would behave differently. And a famous person, even more so. I can't wrap my head around that.

His response is also amusing, "I don't respond to innuendos." He was quoted as saying recently in multiple media outlets.

What???? These aren't "innuendos". These women aren't simply implying something; they are flat out saying they were either sexually molested in one way or they were flat out raped.

To my way of thinking, Bill Cosby is not behaving like an innocent man. An innocent man would fight tooth and nail to defend his reputation, his honor, and all the good he's done in this world.

He's behaving more like someone who has something to hide and is hoping by not responding that, in time, people will eventually forget this. Since that tactic has worked for him in the past.

RoD

Your observation is based on faulty information. How do you know how a falsely accused person would react? Some may laugh it off, some refuse to acknowledge it, some get angry...

I've been accused of cheating on my first wife a couple of times. My reaction was uncontrollable laughter, because the whole idea was so ridiculous to me. (By the way...wrong response!)

Is that how an innocent man reacts? A guilty man? I have no idea. And neither do you. How would an innocent man react if he paid for a girl's college education, and she turned on him years later?

The smartest thing Cosby could do (and should have done) is ignore it completely. Any response just adds fuel to the fire.

If he were 20 years younger, this would all lose momentum, and he would be able to keep his career going after awhile. But he's old enough, that maybe it's too late for that.

Originally Posted by unidentified

Life is all about disappointments.

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Rod Cortez

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

Your observation is based on faulty information. How do you know how a falsely accused person would react? Some may laugh it off, some refuse to acknowledge it, some get angry...

I've been accused of cheating on my first wife a couple of times. My reaction was uncontrollable laughter, because the whole idea was so ridiculous to me. (By the way...wrong response!)

Is that how an innocent man reacts? A guilty man? I have no idea. And neither do you. How would an innocent man react if he paid for a girl's college education, and she turned on him years later?

The smartest thing Cosby could do (and should have done) is ignore it completely. Any response just adds fuel to the fire.

If he were 20 years younger, this would all lose momentum, and he would be able to keep his career going after awhile. But he's old enough, that maybe it's too late for that.

Totally disagree with you Claude. I think the dumbest thing he can do right now is ignore these accusations. His silence is deafening.

You might think my life experience is "faulty information" but I don't. You have no idea what I've seen during my life time or what I've been exposed to.

I am merely basing my opinion on my observations and am sharing them here. In my opinion, I don't think he's behaving like an innocent man.

He may very well be innocent in all this and I am open to that possibility, I'm just sharing my thoughts on how I think he's behaving. I think he's making a big mistake in not addressing these.

RoD

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Claude Whitacre

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Rod Cortez

Totally disagree with you Claude. I think the dumbest thing he can do right now is ignore these accusations. His silence is deafening.

You might think my life experience is "faulty information" but I don't. You have no idea what I've seen during my life time or what I've been exposed to.

I am merely basing my opinion on my observations and am sharing them here. In my opinion, I don't think he's behaving like an innocent man.

He may very well be innocent in all this and I am open to that possibility, I'm just sharing my thoughts on how I think he's behaving. I think he's making a big mistake in not addressing these.

RoD

i still disagree with your opinion,(About Cosby's smartest way to respond) but your post was one of the smarter ones here. And your reasoning was flawless. I wish all opinions were that clearly justified.

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

Now, that's funny. You can't be serious. This "story" isn't going away now and wouldn't have 20 or 30 years ago. His career is over and his age makes no difference at all.

You misunderstood my post.

I meant that if Cosby was 20 years younger, there would be time for the uproar to subside, and he would probably have time to rebuild his career. But at his age now, I don't think it would be worth his effort.

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TimPhelan

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

You misunderstood my post.

I meant that if Cosby was 20 years younger, there would be time for the uproar to subside, and he would probably have time to rebuild his career. But at his age now, I don't think it would be worth his effort.

I understood it completely Claude. It's ridiculous and absurd. Are you even reading these women's stories?

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Claude Whitacre

9 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

I understood it completely Claude. It's ridiculous and absurd. Are you even reading these women's stories?

Tim; You are emotionally invested in these stories, and in the accusations. That's obvious.
That's the difference in our posts. I'm not. I've read some of the stories (not all). I'm just not empathetic, like you are.

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TimPhelan

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

Tim; You are emotionally invested in these stories, and in the accusations. That's obvious.
That's the difference in our posts. I'm not. I've read some of the stories (not all). I'm just not empathetic, like you are.

Not really Claude. I was one of those who didn't want to believe the accusations were true at the beginning because I have been a big fan of Bill Cosby for decades. Even after his pound cake speech. However, I have come to the disappointing conclusion that he is likely a extremely different person than his public persona and find almost all of these women's stories believable and credible. No emotion at all involved in my description of your post. He is being accused of multiple accounts of rape, with a few of the accusers being underage. That would make him a rapist and child molester. Tell me one other big star who survived such accusations and eventually was able to "rebuild their career"?

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Claude Whitacre

9 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

No emotion at all involved in my description of your post.

Now, Tim......we both know that's not true. I didn't say you were wrong, or evil. Just that your response was emotional.

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

He is being accused of multiple accounts of rape, with a few of the accusers being underage. That would make him a rapist and child molester. Tell me one other big star who survived such accusations and eventually was able to "rebuild their career"?

I can't. But then, I haven't searched. I'll grant you that it's a good argument.

He would be a rapist and child molester (Assuming a girl was underage. I haven't read some of the reports)...if the accounts were true, and accurate.

Accusations eventually fade from some people's minds. But a trial? A conviction? (Even a trial with without a conviction) would be a killer.

These are just opinions. Like the idea that eventually, accusations would be forgotten by most, and a career could be rebuilt. Just an opinion.

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sbucciarel

Banned 9 years ago

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

He would be a rapist and child molester (Assuming a girl was underage. I haven't read some of the reports)...if the accounts were true, and accurate.
Accusations eventually fade from some people's minds. But a trial? A conviction? (Even a trial with without a conviction) would be a killer.

So what about a civil trial that was settled for lots of moola instead of letting it ride to see who won the case?

Or what about a lie detector test given to a woman who passed with flying colors?

Mizrahi made contact with a second woman, Beth Ferrier, who alleged that she too had been drugged and sexually molested by the entertainer. The Enquirer brought Ferrier to Los Angeles from her home in Denver, where she was then working as a model, and Mizrahi interviewed her and arranged for her to undergo a lie detector test.

“She passed the polygraph test with flying colors,” Mizrahi told the Guardian. “She had a very, very detailed description of what allegedly happened which I still remember because it was so haunting.
Cosby's lawyers strong-armed tabloid into ditching story on rape claims | World news | The Guardian

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Claude Whitacre

9 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

So what about a civil trial that was settled for lots of moola instead of letting it ride to see who won the case?

Or what about a lie detector test given to a woman who passed with flying colors?

No idea. I'll be honest with you. I argue the logic of some of the posts here, but I'm not invested in this story at all.

If you think I feel the need to debate this, you are wrong. I'm just playing here, because the "National Ebola Crisis" is pretty forgotten.

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sbucciarel

Banned 9 years ago

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

No idea. I'll be honest with you. I argue the logic of some of the posts here, but I'm not invested in this story at all.

If you think I feel the need to debate this, you are wrong. I'm just playing here, because the "National Ebola Crisis" is pretty forgotten.

I'm not "invested" in the story either. Cosby makes no difference in my life either way. I won't miss reruns that I never watched, but I'm interested in news stories. All news stories. I read and watch a lot of news.

I don't feel that you feel the need to debate this other than you frequently post in threads that you claim don't interest you, if for no other reason than to point out the stupidity of everyone else posting. I don't know what you get out of that, but there it is.

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Richard Van

9 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

I'm not "invested" in the story either. Cosby makes no difference in my life either way. I won't miss reruns that I never watched, but I'm interested in news stories. All news stories. I read and watch a lot of news.

Hi Suzanne,

You're not invested but you've made up your mind and nothing will change that. Pistorius was guilty, so is Cosby. All Claude's doing is chucking ideas out like the ones I did in the pistorius thread. Just like Rod is from another angle. We don't know yet, suspicions yes, factual knowledge, not yet. Too much of my info has been from the media and I don't inherently trust that info. I'm not sure where others get there info from but I suspect a similar source.

I don't feel that you feel the need to debate this other than you frequently post in threads that you claim don't interest you, if for no other reason than to point out the stupidity of everyone else posting. I don't know what you get out of that, but there it is.

You have posted very frequently without doubt in your mind that he's guilty though. This interests me greatly but unlike you, I don't yet know the complete facts.

I wasn't there and despite what I'd like to believe, I never will be.

I don't really know what happened at this stage.

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sbucciarel

Banned 9 years ago

Originally Posted by Richard Van

Hi Suzanne,

You're not invested but you've made up your mind and nothing will change that. Pistorius was guilty, so is Cosby.
.....

You have posted very frequently without doubt in your mind that he's guilty though. This interests me greatly but unlike you, I don't yet know the complete facts.

I wasn't there and despite what I'd like to believe, I never will be.

I don't really know what happened at this stage.

Yes, of course I posted my opinion. That's what discussions are for. No one will ever know more than we know now. It's not going to trial. We have the information that we're going to get. No one saved little jars of sperm for proof or took surreptitious videos that have never been seen before.

So, why would I change my mind. Let's see. Cosby vs 17 women. I've already stated that I don't think very highly of some of the women, but it doesn't negate the fact that I believe that Cosby used drugs to incapacitate women and used his power and money to cover things up and largely, got away with it for a long time.

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Richard Van

9 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

Yes, of course I posted my opinion. That's what discussions are for. No one will ever know more than we know now. It's not going to trial. We have the information that we're going to get. No one saved little jars of sperm for proof or took surreptitious videos that have never been seen before.

So, why would I change my mind. Let's see. Cosby vs 17 women. I've already stated that I don't think very highly of some of the women, but it doesn't negate the fact that I believe that Cosby used drugs to incapacitate women and used his power and money to cover things up and largely, got away with it for a long time.

You believe that and I very much respect that.

But that's my point. We don't really know yet, except what we've heard. I'm not entirely trusting of the media so I'm afraid I tend to watch how these things unfold without an opinion I'm willing to hedge a bet on.

I simply don't know.

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Steven Wagenheim

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Richard Van

You believe that and I very much respect that.

But that's my point. We don't really know yet, except what we've heard. I'm not entirely trusting of the media so I'm afraid I tend to watch how these things unfold without an opinion I'm willing to hedge a bet on.

I simply don't know.

And the truth is, we may never know. I doubt that any hard evidence is ever going to surface. What happens to Cosby's career and life at this point really depends entirely on how people in general feel about all this. Some, like Suzanne, may feel there is enough smoke here to be convinced he did it. Others, like Karen, who need more evidence, may reserve judgment until such evidence comes forward. Others may have absolutely no opinion whatsoever or even care. Some may actually do their own digging, determined to get to the bottom of it all.

Look at some of the scandals of years past. Look at Clinton and Lewinsky. Does anybody even care anymore? Has Clinton had to run off to some desert island to live the rest of his life?

Cosby may very well survive this. Personally, I don't think he will, but like I said before, I am not even close to betting on this one way or the other. I've seen too much crazy sh*t over the years. Nothing surprises me anymore. Look at OJ. Look at MJ. Hell, look at Joan Crawford.

This is really nothing new (celebrity gone bad). It's just a different blanket on a different pig.

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sbucciarel

Banned 9 years ago

Originally Posted by Richard Van

You believe that and I very much respect that.

But that's my point. We don't really know yet, except what we've heard. I'm not entirely trusting of the media so I'm afraid I tend to watch how these things unfold without an opinion I'm willing to hedge a bet on.

I simply don't know.

Exactly what do you expect to "unfold?" Women have made accusations, he has denied them all. There is no investigation, no grand jury, no pending charges. At this point it all comes down to who believes who and judging by the backlash to his career, I'd say that a lot of people are believing the women, or at least want to distance their companies from him.

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TimPhelan

9 years ago

Another one of the Jane Does comes forward. I believe this brings the total to 20.

Donna Motsinger, 73, known as Jane Doe No. 8 in the suit filed by former Temple University athletics director Andrea Constand, said she's now speaking up about being drugged and raped 43 years ago because she feels like a "coward" for not sharing her story.
"I feel guilty not telling my story," Motsinger said from her home in Taos, NM. "I'm a coward over here. Those women are brave. It's the least I can do. I want to tell people so [the victims] can't be bullied, so they can't be discredited."

Woman in 2005 civil rape suit against Cosby comes forward | Page Six

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Mike Anthony 9 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

Another one of the Jane Does comes forward. I believe this brings the total to 20.

Although I buy most I am not buying they all were raped. Its just an unfortunate fact of fame and scandal there is always someone that is willing to attach themselves to a story.

P.S. Absurd and ridiculous are labels of incredulity and that need not be emotional at all.
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TimPhelan

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

Now, Tim......we both know that's not true. I didn't say you were wrong, or evil. Just that your response was emotional.

Nope. There wasn't any emotion besides being surprised by the ridiculousness of your post.

What part of that is being emotional?

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Claude Whitacre

9 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

Nope. There wasn't any emotion besides being surprised by the ridiculousness of your post.

What part of that is being emotional?

"It's ridiculous and absurd. Are you even reading these women's stories?" shows irritation, which is an emotional response. By the way, Literally every time I ever say to someone that they are reacting emotionally, or in an emotional tone...they instantly deny it. Even if they were screaming or crying at the moment. (Which is unrelated to your response)

It's an interesting fact, that I've never been able to understand.

I didn't mean that you were unreasonable, or insulting. Just that your language showed emotional involvement. In fact, if you take away emotions, almost all arguments on the forum would simply not happen. And...it wouldn't be as much fun.

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TimPhelan

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

"It's ridiculous and absurd. Are you even reading these women's stories?" shows irritation, which is an emotional response.

Like I said, I think "surprised" would be the correct emotion, not irritated.

I'm kind of a blunt guy sometimes Claude. That, and the fact that here, in an online forum, we are only communicating in text, kind of hinders my intention sometimes and people will misinterpret what and how I am saying something. It happens to everyone. I may get a bit more emotional than you at times, but you are also emotional. I know, you like to portray yourself as largely unemotional, as someone who has little empathy for others and not vested in any of these conversations, but I'm not buying it. That is a part of your debating or conversational style I think. Being overly emotional can affect a person's thought process in debates or just conversations. "You are emotional" = "you are not thinking clearly" can be true but is not always the case. Just as the opposite may or may not be true.

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Claude Whitacre

9 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

. I know, you like to portray yourself as largely unemotional, as someone who has little empathy for others and not vested in any of these conversations, but I'm not buying it. That is a part of your debating or conversational style I think.

My friend;

That's a very kind thing to say.

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Dan Riffle

9 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

Tell me one other big star who survived such accusations and eventually was able to "rebuild their career"?

Ben Roethlisberger hasn't really missed a step after his accusations. For the most part, Michael Jackson seemed to deflect his accusations fairly well. Mike Tyson actually went to prison for rape and now he has his own cartoon.

I'm afraid Claude is right. If given enough time, the general population would probably forget the whole thing. Hell, Paula Deen has already found investors for her own network.

I get that my examples might not meet the same standard as what Cosby's going through - although, it seemed like somebody was always coming after Jackson - I think the bigger the star, the more negative press they can sustain. Just the nature of the beast.

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Claude Whitacre 9 years ago

Originally Posted by Dan Riffle

For the most part, Michael Jackson seemed to deflect his accusations fairly well. Mike Tyson went to prison for rape and now he has his own cartoon.

Worst..career..advice...ever.

And Edward Kennedy survived Chappaquiddick. And there was a body.

Originally Posted by Dan Riffle

I'm afraid Claude is right. .

One more time?
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- Steven Wagenheim 9 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre
  
  Worst..career..advice...ever.
  
  Why? Mike Tyson IS a cartoon.
  
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- Dan Riffle 9 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre
  
  Worst..career..advice...ever.
  
  Yeah, that was more of a juxtaposition between rape and the fact that he now entertains children. Fascinates me.
  
  Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre
  
  And Edward Kennedy survived Chappaquiddick. And there was a body.
  
  Damn. Thank you. That was the one that was scratching at the back of my brain. I can't believe I couldn't think of that one.
  
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- Kay King 9 years ago
  
  I also don't understand your reaction to a rape victim being angry or vicious in her words.
  
  You can't understand my reaction to it. I've been there - you haven't.
  
  I said it with Woody Allen and I say it with Cosby....there is a reason this became "news again". Someone thought it was a good idea and others were willing to participate. The accusations aren't new - they've come up every few years.
  
  I don't doubt Cosby took advantage of young women years ago. I also don't doubt those same women put themselves in position to be taken advantage of. Maybe it was rape - maybe not. I like his comedy, I respect his ideas - I just don't care about the rest of it.
  
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sbucciarel

Banned 9 years ago

Originally Posted by Dan Riffle

Ben Roethlisberger hasn't really missed a step after his accusations. For the most part, Michael Jackson seemed to deflect his accusations fairly well. Mike Tyson actually went to prison for rape and now he has his own cartoon.

I'm afraid Claude is right. If given enough time, the general population would probably forget the whole thing. Hell, Paula Deen has already found investors for her own network.

I get that my examples might not meet the same standard as what Cosby's going through - although, it seemed like somebody was always coming after Jackson - I think the bigger the star, the more negative press they can sustain. Just the nature of the beast.

Here's a few more
4 Scandals That Prove We'll Forgive Celebrities for Anything | Cracked.com

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whateverpedia

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Rod Cortez

I think the dumbest thing he can do right now is ignore these accusations.

I've no doubt he has a whole team of legal people telling him that the dumbest thing he can do right now is to respond to the accusations.

Anything he says WILL be used against him from here on.

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Rod Cortez

9 years ago

Originally Posted by whateverpedia

I've no doubt he has a whole team of legal people telling him that the dumbest thing he can do right now is to respond to the accusations.

Anything he says WILL be used against him from here on.

Yes, I agree with you there. He's definitely getting advice from his legal counsel, his PR representative, etc. Of that I have no doubt.

My contention is this, though: if he's really innocent, then it wouldn't matter so much what he said, especially if all he did was deny the allegations. That's why his silence is deafening and puzzling to me.

I think the strategy is to just hope they'll go away after awhile. It's worked for him in the past. However, this time the sheer number of women coming out, along with some former entertainment executives which talked about his "pay outs" to some of the women, I don't think these will be going away anytime soon.

RoD

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sbucciarel

Banned 9 years ago

Originally Posted by Rod Cortez

I think the strategy is to just hope they'll go away after awhile. It's worked for him in the past. However, this time the sheer number of women coming out, along with some former entertainment executives which talked about his "pay outs" to some of the women, I don't think these will be going away anytime soon.

RoD

His PR people told him to go on a long vacation, shut up and disappear for a long time.

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TimPhelan

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

If he were 20 years younger, this would all lose momentum, and he would be able to keep his career going after awhile. But he's old enough, that maybe it's too late for that.

Now, that's funny. You can't be serious. This "story" isn't going away now and wouldn't have 20 or 30 years ago. His career is over and his age makes no difference at all.

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Kurt

9 years ago

Claude's just trying to distract from his own incident when he put his fruit in Tucan Sam's loop.

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socialentry

Banned 9 years ago

Mike Tyson is awesome.

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Dan Riffle 9 years ago

Originally Posted by socialentry

Mike Tyson is awesome.

I just knew that'd bring you out of the woodwork, SE.
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socialentry

Banned 9 years ago

For sure,

If I'm not there to defend truth,democracy and justice, who will?
.

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Dan Riffle 9 years ago

Originally Posted by socialentry

For sure,

If I'm not there to defend truth,democracy and justice, who will?
.

Tell the truth: you have a "Mike Tyson" Google Alert set up, don't you?
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- Claude Whitacre 9 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Dan Riffle
  
  Claude is right. .
  
  Just in case someone didn't see it earlier. Good taste and humility would prevent me from posting it again.
  
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sbucciarel

Banned 9 years ago

Didn't know about Tim Allen but found it

On October 2, 1978, Tim Allen was arrested in the Kalamazoo-Battle Creek International Airport for possession of over 650 grams (1.4 lb) of cocaine. He subsequently pleaded guilty to drug trafficking, and provided the names of other dealers in exchange for a sentence of three to seven years, instead of possible life imprisonment.

... and then there's Rob Lowe ... did 20 hrs community service for having sex with a 16 year old

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TimPhelan

9 years ago

I just don't think any of those scandals mentioned comes close to what we are seeing with the Cos. We are at 20 women and counting of extremely bad behavior ranging from rape to sexual harassment and abuse to child molesting to drugging someone without their knowledge. Perhaps Michael Jackson would come the closest, but he was acquitted of one charge. Did he ever have to really make a comeback also? Did his career ever take much of a hit? With Cosby, he probably could continue to do small stand up comedy shows, but his TV career is over for good it seems and I doubt if he was 50 he would ever be able to recover. Just my opinion of course and some could call it ridiculous and absurd also.

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sbucciarel

Banned 9 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

I just don't think any of those scandals mentioned comes close to what we are seeing with the Cos. We are at 20 women and counting of extremely bad behavior ranging from rape to sexual harassment and abuse to child molesting to drugging someone without their knowledge. Perhaps Michael Jackson would come the closest, but he was acquitted of one charge. Did he ever have to really make a comeback also? Did his career ever take much of a hit? With Cosby, he probably could continue to do small stand up comedy shows, but his TV career is over for good it seems and I doubt if he was 50 he would ever be able to recover. Just my opinion of course and some could call it ridiculous and absurd also.

I don't think Michael Jackson really took a hit at all, but I thought those allegations were about as bad as these. I don't really think Cosby is going to recover quite the same way that Michael Jackson did ... just a guess.

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Claude Whitacre

9 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

Didn't know about Tim Allen but found it

... and then there's Rob Lowe ... did 20 hrs community service for having sex with a 16 year old

And then he came back and opened that huge hardware store chain.

And in Georgia (where it happened) 16 was legal age.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rob_Lowe

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sbucciarel

Banned 9 years ago

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

And then he came back and opened that huge hardware store chain.

And in Georgia (where it happened) 16 was legal age.
Rob Lowe - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I see that ... why did he have to do 20 hrs community service, at least according to one website, to avoid prosecution?

Rob Lowe - Celebrity arrests they wish they could forget - Pictures - CBS News

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Claude Whitacre

9 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

I see that ... why did he have to do 20 hrs community service, at least according to one website, to avoid prosecution?

Rob Lowe - Celebrity arrests they wish they could forget - Pictures - CBS News

No idea. I was just going for the "Lowe's" joke, and noticed the Wikipedia page. Maybe he didn't really get sentenced. Maybe she wasn't really 16. Maybe there were two incidences. I don't remember him serving time.

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sbucciarel

Banned 9 years ago

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

No idea. I was just going for the "Lowe's" joke, and noticed the Wikipedia page. Maybe he didn't really get sentenced. Maybe she wasn't really 16. Maybe there were two incidences. I don't remember him serving time.

He didn't. According to the NBC story, he agreed to 20 hrs of community service instead of jail time. Oh well.

Looks like Canada has their own version of Cosby

Canadian ex-radio host charged with sexual assault - Houston Chronicle

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Midnight Oil 9 years ago

The one woman who Bill Cosby admits he cheated with says 'he drugged and raped me too
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Kurt

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

No idea. I was just going for the "Lowe's" joke, and noticed the Wikipedia page. Maybe he didn't really get sentenced. Maybe she wasn't really 16. Maybe there were two incidences. I don't remember him serving time.

I'm here to help...go for "that was a lowe blow" as the punchline.

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Claude Whitacre

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Kurt

I'm here to help...go for "that was a lowe blow" as the punchline.

You couldn't let me have one joke to myself, with out you showing me up?...not even one?

Have you ever made a grown...handsome......strangely sensuous man cry? You have now, my friend...you have now.

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Richard Van

9 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

Exactly what do you expect to "unfold?"

I told you, I don't know. Life is full of little surprises. I really don't know but something will happen won't it? It has to, it's not going to just vanish tomorrow.

Women have made accusations, he has denied them all. There is no investigation, no grand jury, no pending charges. At this point it all comes down to who believes who and judging by the backlash to his career, I'd say that a lot of people are believing the women, or at least want to distance their companies from him.

Yes that's very true. Sorry that I don't just make my mind up on things like this as you do. We're all different.

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sbucciarel

Banned 9 years ago

I just wonder if he will continue with his oh so sanctimonious and rather hypocritical "family values" speeches and taking personal responsibility and all that good stuff.

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Kay King

9 years ago

Maybe that's where I differ. I don't consider it "sanctimonious" to tell people kids do best with a father actually in the picture....or that adults do best if they grow up BEFORE they start having children.

I don't think it's a bad thing to have famous African American people (and Cosby is only one of several now) telling people to stop being victims and start running their own lives...to stop blaming and excusing and start owning their own choices.

Sometimes the message is right even though the messenger is flawed.

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Steven Wagenheim

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

Maybe that's where I differ. I don't consider it "sanctimonious" to tell people kids do best with a father actually in the picture....or that adults do best if they grow up BEFORE they start having children.

I don't think it's a bad thing to have famous African American people (and Cosby is only one of several now) telling people to stop being victims and start running their own lives...to stop blaming and excusing and start owning their own choices.

Sometimes the message is right even though the messenger is flawed.

The problem is, if it doesn't come from a credible source, people tend not to listen. Certainly the message would carry a lot more weight if it came from Martin Luther King.

Just saying.

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sbucciarel

Banned 9 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

Maybe that's where I differ. I don't consider it "sanctimonious" to tell people kids do best with a father actually in the picture....or that adults do best if they grow up BEFORE they start having children.

I don't think it's a bad thing to have famous African American people (and Cosby is only one of several now) telling people to stop being victims and start running their own lives...to stop blaming and excusing and start owning their own choices.

Sometimes the message is right even though the messenger is flawed.

Sorry, but I think Cosby preaching morals or family values to anyone at all is empty ... kind of like Ted Haggard railing against gays. The people he was preaching to aren't stupid. I'll bet some of them even read newspapers and know what a hypocrite he is. Was Cosby really trying to teach values to the black community, who he was very far removed from, or was he just really ingratiating himself to the white audiences? Either way, talking down to people about their lives and choices when you drug and sexually assault women is .... well, reprehensible.

An interesting quote from an opinion piece below.

Cosby's hypocrisy and sanctimony will make the fall even more painful. His attempts to lecture the black community on how it should behave now seem like a bad joke. Furthermore, one suspects that his attempts to bully other black entertainers and comedians into conforming with his supposed standards of morality will haunt him. Jamie Foxx almost certainly remembers how Cosby browbeat him for making Booty Call. Similarly, Wanda Sykes will remember how Cosby lambasted her-reportedly to her face-about her use of slang and curse words in her comic routines. One suspects Sykes, along with all the rappers Cosby has insulted, is already sharpening her nails for revenge. It would also be interesting to hear from Lisa Bonet, who lost her role on The Cosby Show-at Cosby's instigation-because she (gasp!) appeared nude in an R-rated movie with Mickey Rourke.

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

The problem is, if it doesn't come from a credible source, people tend not to listen. Certainly the message would carry a lot more weight if it came from Martin Luther King.

Just saying.

MLK was an important civil rights leader... not so much a "family values" leader. He had his share of affairs.

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Richard Van

9 years ago

Well I do hope everyone's having a nice Thanksgiving.

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sbucciarel

Banned 9 years ago

Originally Posted by Richard Van

Well I do hope everyone's having a nice Thanksgiving.

You too Richard and all. The smell of turkey is starting to fill the house up.

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Claude Whitacre

9 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

You too Richard and all. The smell of turkey is starting to fill the house up.

The smell of turkey is filling my home too. Unfortunately, I raise turkeys in my home....and it's a fowl smell.

Take that, Riffle and Kurt! ...and Frank!

Originally Posted by Richard Van

Sorry, don't mind me, I was thinking of the English version of pants and wondered how you managed that in a public place and wondered how it could affect laundry costs.

Then I realised you meant trousers.

We need to get an English to English translator.

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Karen Blundell

9 years ago

Happy Thanksgiving everyone

we had ours already in October - so this weekend I get to celebrate my best friend's birthday with her - so I am also in a festive mood -

I decorated my place for Christmas already - I usually wait until December 1st but this year I got nostalgic early -

Maybe I did to get my mind off of all the ugliness that's been in the news lately. I think it's working ...

here - have a giggle:

Funny Thanksgiving Song - 'Thanksgiving Overture'...

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Kay King

9 years ago

Certainly the message would carry a lot more weight if it came from Martin Luther King.

MLK was a great leader who was known to have a significant number of extra-marital affairs. Back then, you could keep secrets from the press and public....not possible today.

Cosby's not perfect - neither was King. If perfection were required to express an opinion on a topic important to you....it would be a silent world.

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sbucciarel

Banned 9 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

MLK was a great leader who was known to have a significant number of extra-marital affairs. Back then, you could keep secrets from the press and public....not possible today.

Cosby's not perfect - neither was King. If perfection were required to express an opinion on a topic important to you....it would be a silent world.

If Cosby were accused of only extra marital affairs instead of drugged rape, there wouldn't be anything to discuss. Most people knew that King had affairs, including his wife, no doubt.

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Kay King

9 years ago

That could be. There were rumors about King - but no open discussion, no admissions, no pundits or newspaper articles blaring it. Would those be "affairs" today or would they be "a famous person taking advantage"? Don't know.

Don't know the truth about Cosby - but most claims seem to be from 2004-2006 when he was well into his 60's. One woman came forward to say "he did this to me in the 1970s and I didn't say anything"...so why speak now? Does she think there's money to be had?

He may be a dirty old man for all I know but no claims were made in the years his show was running or at the time his only son was murdered. Not one woman seems to have gone from "being attacked" straight to police to file charges. A settlement in a civil suit isn't admission of guilt but often the choice of an insurance company or on the advice of a lawyer.

I find it hard to believe a man becomes "a rapist" in his 60s and goes that long with that type behavior with no charges filed, no proof given, etc. I also am skeptical when one "charge" is immediately bolstered by a dozen others who say "me too" - with almost identical stories that weren't mentioned at the time they happened.

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TimPhelan 9 years ago

The accusations against Cosby go back to the 60s and there seem to be some in every decade since except the last couple of years. He didn't just become a rapist in his 60s.
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discrat 9 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

He may be a dirty old Felon for all I know but no claims were made in the years his show was running or at the time his only son was murdered

You meant to say in bold
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sbucciarel

Banned 9 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

That could be. There were rumors about King - but no open discussion, no admissions, no pundits or newspaper articles blaring it. Would those be "affairs" today or would they be "a famous person taking advantage"? Don't know.

Don't know the truth about Cosby - but most claims seem to be from 2004-2006 when he was well into his 60's. One woman came forward to say "he did this to me in the 1970s and I didn't say anything"...so why speak now? Does she think there's money to be had?

He may be a dirty old man for all I know but no claims were made in the years his show was running or at the time his only son was murdered. Not one woman seems to have gone from "being attacked" straight to police to file charges. A settlement in a civil suit isn't admission of guilt but often the choice of an insurance company or on the advice of a lawyer.

I find it hard to believe a man becomes "a rapist" in his 60s and goes that long with that type behavior with no charges filed, no proof given, etc. I also am skeptical when one "charge" is immediately bolstered by a dozen others who say "me too" - with almost identical stories that weren't mentioned at the time they happened.

You like him. You think he's funny and you give him a pass. I don't like him, never did and don't give him a pass. If you want to discredit 20 or so women who were drugged and assaulted, that's certainly your choice. The first woman did report it to the police and many of the other women were listed as 13 Jane Doe witnesses in that case ... which was quietly settled out of court. Another woman took a lie detector test for a magazine article and passed with flying colors.

In addition, this reprehensible rapist blocked a news article that another one of his victims was going to have published and offered them an exclusive to cut hers.
Cosby said he blocked 2005 tabloid story about sex-assault accuser | Reuters

Bill Cosby cooperated with tabloids to spike accuser's story | Fox News

And this America's Favorite Dad used his daughter as a leaked story of her drug use to deflect a story about him.

No Cookies | dailytelegraph.com.au

Cosby leaked story about daughter’s drug problems | Page Six

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discrat

9 years ago

Suzy,
I will take it one step further ( well kind of ) . I actually have adored Cosby all these years.

Imo, The Cosby Show was one of the best TV shows ever for me at least. Great writing, great actors, and a genius who created it.

Always thought what he said about the black community had some Truth to it...to a degree at least.

But with these charges and soo many claims it is just hard to refute

And frankly it does NOT matter one iota as to why they have come out now or 10 years ago.

What matters is the TRUTH. That's what I go by.

And it does not look for this guy

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TimPhelan

9 years ago

Apparently Cosby could still face charges in the state of New York:

...the TV icon could - at least theoretically - face criminal charges in the state of New York, where some of the events allegedly occurred.

"There are no statue of limitations in New York when it comes to first-degree rape," University of Illinois College of Law professor Robin Wilson tells PEOPLE. "You could be 100 and they could still come after you."

Could Bill Cosby Face Rape Charges? : People.com

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Kay King

9 years ago

You don't become a "felon" until you are convicted of a crime - that's something people seem to forget these days of instant "trial by media".

I remember the last time these charges became "news" a few years ago....and the same "could be charged for rape" headlines appeared just as they are now. Nothing happened. A shocking headline on people.com doesn't carry much legal weight. If it happens, we'll know about it.

He may be guilty - I don't know. And neither does anyone else except Cosby and the women filing complaints. I'm not standing up for Cosby's innocence. It's only that I refuse to jump to a guilty verdict based on social media, ten year old (and more) stories and flashy/shocking headlines on magazines and blogs.

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sbucciarel

Banned 9 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

You don't become a "felon" until you are convicted of a crime - that's something people seem to forget these days of instant "trial by media".

I remember the last time these charges became "news" a few years ago....and the same "could be charged for rape" headlines appeared just as they are now. Nothing happened. A shocking headline on people.com doesn't carry much legal weight. If it happens, we'll know about it.

He may be guilty - I don't know. And neither does anyone else except Cosby and the women filing complaints. I'm not standing up for Cosby's innocence. It's only that I refuse to jump to a guilty verdict based on social media, ten year old (and more) stories and flashy/shocking headlines on magazines and blogs.

He most likely won't become a felon as the statute of limitations are expired on his rapes and drugging women. When the first woman filed charges against him, the DA in that case found the woman to be very credible and believed her. He also found Cosby to be unbelievable and evasive. He simply didn't think he could prove the case in court, so didn't bring charges. Does that make him innocent? Not really.

A jury looks at the evidence and makes a common sense decision as to innocence or guilt and they do this in circumstantial cases as well as cases where there is forensic evidence. The public isn't any dumber than a jury and they can do the same, and they have.

Fortunately, he won't really get away with it scott free. All the universities he was associated with, including the one that he went to, have dumped him. Most of his shows have been canceled and I doubt that Jello or any other company will ever knock on his door again. He's going to have to watch that $400 million estimated bankroll he has now because his ability to make lots and lots more just disappeared.

And I'm very glad that he has to face consequences that are pretty severe for a man like him. Those news reports that he didn't manage to squash have come out for years and those women have been largely ignored. They're not being ignored any longer.

Sometimes Karma takes over where the law fails.

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Kay King

9 years ago

I see things like this in news stories:

Ferrier has gone public about what she called her brief affair with Cosby when she was a model in 1984.

...in another interview she refers to her interaction with Cosby as "an ongoing, intermittent affair" but now she remembers becoming drowsy after drinking coffee one night so she thinks she was drugged...and the affair is now "rape"?

The nurse who says she was raped when she was 19 and Cosby 39 - gives a credible story about the incident....but then in another interview we learn 20 years after the 'rape' she was still accepting or soliciting money from Cosby?

Serignese (who says she was raped 38 years ago) says that her mother encouraged her to call Cosby after she confided in her about the assault, saying, "Well, maybe he'll take care of you." She claims that she did call him, and that Cosby put her up in her own room in the penthouse of the Hilton for about three weeks, until he kicked her out after she had a pregnancy scare.

She claims that she continued to have intermittent contact with Cosby over the next 20 years, including at least one subsequent sexual encounter around 1985. She also accepted two payments from him in 1996 after she sustained serious injuries in a car accident, including a $5,000 check from his agent, but she never came forward publicly about the assault for fear that no one would believe her.

If you went back again and again....or were willing to forget a problem if the money was right...or if you referred to the relationship as "an ongoing affair" at the time....can you claim rape now and be believed? Apparently the answer is 'yes'.

I think some of the women were definitely taken advantage of - and I think quite a few of them are rewriting their own history with Cosby.

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seasoned

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

You don't become a "felon" until you are convicted of a crime - that's something people seem to forget these days of instant "trial by media".

I remember the last time these charges became "news" a few years ago....and the same "could be charged for rape" headlines appeared just as they are now. Nothing happened. A shocking headline on people.com doesn't carry much legal weight. If it happens, we'll know about it.

He may be guilty - I don't know. And neither does anyone else except Cosby and the women filing complaints. I'm not standing up for Cosby's innocence. It's only that I refuse to jump to a guilty verdict based on social media, ten year old (and more) stories and flashy/shocking headlines on magazines and blogs.

Well, A lot of popular entertainment rags have basically branded him as guilty. Do they mean anything legally to cosby? NOPE! Frankly, I don't think Cosby can even be tried for any of them, since the statute of limitations probably passed, and there is no valid proof. But things far smaller than this have hurt people. OH, and these DO mean things legally to advertisers. SO, though Cosby might not be charged a penny, he may not be owed any either.

Steve

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Kurt

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

That could be. There were rumors about King - but no open discussion, no admissions, no pundits or newspaper articles blaring it. Would those be "affairs" today or would they be "a famous person taking advantage"? Don't know.

Don't know the truth about Cosby - but most claims seem to be from 2004-2006 when he was well into his 60's. One woman came forward to say "he did this to me in the 1970s and I didn't say anything"...so why speak now? Does she think there's money to be had?

Let's play "Count the Fallacies"...I count three, non-sequitor, ad hominem and red herring.

There could be a 1000 reasons why she didn't speak until now. And maybe money is one of them. Even if true, it doesn't mean she wasn't assaulted.

He may be a dirty old man for all I know but no claims were made in the years his show was running or at the time his only son was murdered. Not one woman seems to have gone from "being attacked" straight to police to file charges. A settlement in a civil suit isn't admission of guilt but often the choice of an insurance company or on the advice of a lawyer.

And a "not guilty" verdict in a criminal court doesn't mean "innocent", it can be a case of "not enough evidence to convict".

I find it hard to believe a man becomes "a rapist" in his 60s and goes that long with that type behavior with no charges filed, no proof given, etc. I also am skeptical when one "charge" is immediately bolstered by a dozen others who say "me too" - with almost identical stories that weren't mentioned at the time they happened.

We are not a judge or jury. We are only forming opinions. However, I find it interesting that in your reasoning, you are actually tipping the scales in the opposite direction of your opinion, from a logical point of view.

If it was simply a case of "he said/she said", it would be hard to form an opinion based on reason. However, when it's "he said/a dozen others say", then the vast preponderance has shifted. To claim that the statements of a "dozen others" weakens the position that Cosby did something wrong makes no sense whatsoever. When it is reasonable to accept the word of one person vs. a "dozen"? I'm sure there are instnances where the "one" was right, but to make that decision we need some actual evidence. Until then, the "dozen" simply holds more weight than the one.

BTW, if we are going to make assumptions to support our own points of view, it's also possible that there are dozens more Cosby victims that haven't come forward, and this could be for a variety of reasons...maybe they were drugged to the point of not remembering, or they are embarrassed, or they have moved on in their lives. Of course, we shouldn't make assumptions like this, and we shouldn't make assumptions about why these women are now speaking. Even if some are doing it for money doesn't mean they weren't victims.

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Claude Whitacre

9 years ago

I'm lazy. Bold is Kurt. Not bold is me.

Let's play "Count the Fallacies"...I count three, non-sequitor, ad hominem and red herring.
Yup.

There could be a 1000 reasons why she didn't speak until now. And maybe money is one of them. Even if true, it doesn't mean she wasn't assaulted.

True. In fact, it doesn't mean anything, when thinking about his guilt. The fact that she came forward at all, or later, or never....is not evidence.

To claim that the statements of a "dozen others" weakens the position that Cosby did something wrong makes no sense whatsoever. When it is reasonable to accept the word of one person vs. a "dozen"? I'm sure there are instnances where the "one" was right, but to make that decision we need some actual evidence. Until then, the "dozen" simply holds more weight than the one.

Yup again. The number of instances has no bearing on the the validity of each accusation. And a dozen accusations isn't better or worse than one.

I did my own logic tree on this, and at the end, when I took out everything that wasn't a fact, or evidence...I had nothing left to base an opinion on.

Too bad none of them kept their dress. That would be a game changer. Or if one had a blood test in an emergency room...and it showed barbiturates.

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TimPhelan

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

True. In fact, it doesn't mean anything, when thinking about his guilt. The fact that she came forward at all, or later, or never....is not evidence.

Claude, a victim's testimony is considered evidence and people have been convicted of rape on the victim's testimony alone.

And a dozen accusations isn't better or worse than one.

If they are believable they are usually considered better for the prosecutor.

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sbucciarel

Banned 9 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

Claude, a victim's testimony is considered evidence and people have been convicted of rape on the victim's testimony alone.

If they are believable they are usually considered better for the prosecutor.

Yep. Victim's testimony is most certainly admissable evidence used in court literally ALL the time, and when you have 20 of them giving testimony and one of them disputing it, well I think that most jurys are going to give a lot of weight to 20 victims.

The fact that some of these women ... and not all of them ... received some benefit either in money or a career favor is irrelevant, unless they specifically had a prostitution arrangement with him prior to them being drugged and assaulted.

In some of the cases, the victim said that after the assault, Cosby threw a couple of hundred bucks on the table as if to compensate them for being raped and drugged. Does that count as taking money from Cosby too?

As for having a relationship with him afterwards, rape is still rape. There are wives and dates/girlfriends who are raped who had a relationship with the rapist. Doesn't make drugged, non-consensual sexual assault any less of a crime if they had a relationship with the perp.

As for money ... if he had done it to me and wanted to buy my silence, it would have cost a lot more than a couple of hundred bucks thrown on a table, I can assure you.

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seasoned

9 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

Yep. Victim's testimony is most certainly admissable evidence used in court literally ALL the time, and when you have 20 of them giving testimony and one of them disputing it, well I think that most jurys are going to give a lot of weight to 20 victims.

The fact that some of these women ... and not all of them ... received some benefit either in money or a career favor is irrelevant, unless they specifically had a prostitution arrangement with him prior to them being drugged and assaulted.

In some of the cases, the victim said that after the assault, Cosby threw a couple of hundred bucks on the table as if to compensate them for being raped and drugged. Does that count as taking money from Cosby too?

As for having a relationship with him afterwards, rape is still rape. There are wives and dates/girlfriends who are raped who had a relationship with the rapist. Doesn't make drugged, non-consensual sexual assault any less of a crime if they had a relationship with the perp.

As for money ... if he had done it to me and wanted to buy my silence, it would have cost a lot more than a couple of hundred bucks thrown on a table, I can assure you.

Ironically, the only people that would take a few hundred bucks for rape would be hookers, and they would basically brand it as an act of prostitution. A rape victim that wants some closure would likely ask for something more nebulous or substantial, and some public record. But I can certainly understand why some victims don't come forward. Even on L&O SVU, it seems they almost have to TRICK victims to come forward sometimes, and they try to get the rape kit done if it is suspected. THAT way, if the victim decides to come forward a year or two later, they STILL have the evidence.

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Claude Whitacre

9 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

Claude, a victim's testimony is considered evidence and people have been convicted of rape on the victim's testimony alone.

If they are believable they are usually considered better for the prosecutor.

I know. Testimony is evidence in court. I meant that I don't consider it evidence.

Have you seen the Time Travel thread? A few people saying silly things. Is that evidence that time travel is real? Not to me.

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

That's what I've been thinking. To have 20 willing to come forward, indicates there is likely many more who won't. It also seems clear to me that most of the twenty really didn't look at this as some sort of opportunity. Geesh, most are in their 40s, 50s and 60s.

You brought up a good point. Why would someone not report the incident to the police, or go to the hospital....20 years ago, but they want to go on national TV now? (or be reported in the papers).

I'm not saying that they are lying, or to discount their testimony....but I don't see the motivation.

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sbucciarel

Banned 9 years ago

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

Why would someone not report the incident to the police, or go to the hospital....20 years ago, but they want to go on national TV now? (or be reported in the papers).

I'm not saying that they are lying, or to discount their testimony....but I don't see the motivation.

The first victim did go to the police. The DA believed her and didn't believe Cosby but didn't think there would be enough to convict, so didn't bring charges. That's part of the facts of this case people keep ignoring ... it was reported and 13 of the 19 who have reported similar assaults were willing to testify.

But generally, why do rape victims not go to the police? Easy ... shame, humiliation, further victimization from a defense attorney who will drag them through the mud to make it appear that they deserved or encouraged or is at fault for the rape. On the one hand, you have a very powerful man with lots of moola and expensive lawyers. On the other hand, the victim is a nobody in particular. These women certainly aren't the first rape victims to not report because they couldn't bare to go through that.

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Kay King

9 years ago

Bill Cosby accusers list: Sexual assault, rape, drugs feature in women's stories.

The stories seem to be a bit different depending on where you read them - but on the link above the first victim's complaint was probably not something you could prosecute.

#1 - Said contact was "consensual" until he placed her hand.....somewhere... she then removed her hand...and then reported to police. She was an adult - there was no attack and no rape. What was the crime?

#2 waited a year to report

#3 - was in " a relationship" with Cosby - and her daughter later was prosecuted for trying to extort Cosby

#4 - waited 30 years to report

#5 - was in "a consensual relationship" with Cosby and waited 21 years to report a problem

#6 - waited 30 years to report

#7 - reported rape after 35 years

#8 - 63 yrs old now - reported THIS YEAR that she was raped by Cosby when she was 19

#9 doesn't make any sense at all. "At a dinner in Lake Tahoe at which they were to discuss her career, she says she asked him for a pill for period cramps,..." She had a chance to boost her career by impressing a famous comedian....and what she does is ask him for pills for menstrual cramps?" Does anyone seriously believe that would be a "dinner conversation"?

Why now? Because Cosby had resurfaced with a new show - because he has once again been poking fun at people who are on the dole - who are not taking care of themselves - who are not being responsible parents and citizens. He's been criticizing the status quo once again...and all of a sudden a comedian's jokes about Cosby are taken seriously (though that comedian has been telling that same joke for some time).

I think it's a fascinating story because so much fact is missing - so many claims are questionable - and yet this man's reputation is being destroyed.

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sbucciarel

Banned 9 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

Why now? Because Cosby had resurfaced with a new show - because he has once again been poking fun at people who are on the dole - who are not taking care of themselves - who are not being responsible parents and citizens. He's been criticizing the status quo once again...and all of a sudden a comedian's jokes about Cosby are taken seriously (though that comedian has been telling that same joke for some time).

I think it's a fascinating story because so much fact is missing - so many claims are questionable - and yet this man's reputation is being destroyed.

Most of the women were white, which dispels the notion that they were the victims of his hypocrital, sanctimonious rants about their lifestyle. So, 19 women were upset because he has a new show? Right ...

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TimPhelan

9 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

Most of the women were white, which dispels the notion that they were the victims of his hypocrital, sanctimonious rants about their lifestyle. So, 19 women were upset because he has a new show? Right ...

I think all these women came forward because they didn't like his Jello commercials. ( makes about as much sense )

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Kay King 9 years ago

You are misinterpreting. I didn't mean the women - I meant the media willing to make this story headline news...again...years after the complaints were filed.

It's not a right or wrong issue - none of us know the facts or what did happen back then. My opinion may not fit the mold but it's based on my own reading and thinking. In this instance, the popular viewpoint doesn't make sense to me. I'm not arguing others need to agree with me - doesn't matter one whit to me if people agree or not.

Perhaps it's because I'm older than many here. I know what the attitudes and values were during the times these women are talking about. A woman claiming to be raped while admitting to having an affair with a famous married man...would have gotten no sympathy from press or public. Right or wrong - that's how it was.
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Mike Anthony 9 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

I think all these women came fotward because they didn't like his Jello commercials. ( makes about as much sense )

well after all...the sugar lobby is very powerful
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seasoned

9 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

Most of the women were white, which dispels the notion that they were the victims of his hypocrital, sanctimonious rants about their lifestyle. So, 19 women were upset because he has a new show? Right ...

I WISH that were true, but it is NOT a black/white issue! There ARE whites that are against it. As for the new show, that gives him a new platform, and more money, and people that fear the spread of ideas, or are jealous of success attack more frequently at such times.

Steve

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thunderbird

9 years ago

Originally Posted by seasoned

I WISH that were true, but it is NOT a black/white issue! There ARE whites that are against it. As for the new show, that gives him a new platform, and more money, and people that fear the spread of ideas, or are jealous of success attack more frequently at such times.

Steve

I agree with Bill Cosby's statements about responsibility, but that is beside the point. He is a serial rapist, so the hell with him.

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seasoned 9 years ago

Originally Posted by thunderbird

I agree with Bill Cosby's statements about responsibility, but that is beside the point. He is a serial rapist, so the hell with him.

AGREED! If he is a rapist, THE HELL WITH HIM! I will miss the shows I may not see again, etc... but NOT because he happened to be in them.

Steve
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sbucciarel

Banned 9 years ago

Originally Posted by thunderbird

I agree with Bill Cosby's statements about responsibility, but that is beside the point. He is a serial rapist, so the hell with him.

Yeah, I'd rather hear moralizing from someone who has some... morals that is. But I never thought his message was for black people. I always thought his message was to make himself look good to white people. Why didn't his message include all the white deadbeat dads and ne'er do wells in the white race, because there certainly is no shortage of them.

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seasoned

9 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

Yeah, I'd rather hear moralizing from someone who has some... morals that is. But I never thought his message was for black people. I always thought his message was to make himself look good to white people. Why didn't his message include all the white deadbeat dads and ne'er do wells in the white race, because there certainly is no shortage of them.

There are plenty of ASIAN problems ALSO! It is simply that with BLACKS, it is a big enough cross section and riots and the like don't make things any better.

Steve

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Steven Wagenheim 9 years ago

Here's what I wonder. If the women stop coming out of the woodwork and Cosby continues to keep quiet about all this and the news eventually becomes old news and vanishes from the limelight, will Cosby eventually get his life back? Will stations start to show his shows again?

From my experience in life in general, the public seems to have a very short memory.

Remember Nixon and Watergate? Would it be shocking to know that years later he actually did TV interviews, one of them I think on 60 Minutes but I'm not sure. I know one was with David Frost.

Point is, unless it's something absolutely horrible (like mass murder) we tend to forget. Look at Martha Stewart. Does anybody really care anymore that she was involved in insider trading? Does anybody care about all the things that actors like Alec Baldwin and Russell Crow have done?

If all these accusations are true, I'd hate to think that someday it will be business as usual for Cosby, but I can't help thinking that's exactly what's going to happen if for no other reason than how quickly the American people seem to stop giving a crap about certain things.
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TimPhelan

9 years ago

Originally Posted by seasoned

It is simply that with BLACKS, it is a big enough cross section and riots and the like don't make things any better.

Steve

What about the WHITES? There's way more WHITES on the dole, living on welfare etc... That's after 400 years of white privilege!! Wtf? What's wrong with the white Americans?

Maybe we need an old beloved white comedian to preach to us about personal responsibility. ( minus the serial raping of course ) How about Bob Newhart?

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seasoned

9 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

What about the WHITES? There's way more WHITES on the dole, living on welfare etc... That's after 400 years of white privilege!! Wtf? What's wrong with the white Americans?

Maybe we need an old beloved white comedian to preach to us about personal responsibility. ( minus the serial raping of course ) How about Bob Newhart?

I'm still waiting for MY share of white privilege! WHERE do you go to get it? I LITERALLY ******BEGGED****** a person that was white, and claimed it existed. I PUSHED and PUSHED and PUSHED! SERIOUSLY, I was SERIOUS! You know what he FINALLY came up with?

COLLEGE FRATERNITIES! SERIOUSLY! Of course BLACKS can take advantage of them now, and whites need to be in college and get accepted by one, etc.... So you can't use THEM as an example.

There are more of EVERY race on the "public dole" than EVER before. And there will be more whites said to be "on the dole" anyway. Many hispanics, jewish, muslims, and even some asians may identify as white. But at least by that measure, whites are certainly the largest group.

And I NEVER said anything against a black saying such things as the cosby pound cake speech. HECK, I showed several here. HOPEFULLY, if it hits home with whites, THEY WILL LISTEN. Unfortunately, there are a lot of blacks that would NEVER listen to such things from whites, and even a large amount that won't listen to blacks EITHER, if they say such things.

As for bob newhart? Who knows? I always saw more humor in the cast he built around him in his shows than I did in HIM. Ironically, I liked his portrayal on NCIS, where he played a retired M.E. in the final throws of alzheimers, but that wasn't comedic.

And throwing around even numbers like 100 seems crazy when most people don't live that long. And you can blame the US for the slavery when it started under british rule, was here about 155 years before the US, and abolished only 89 years after the US was created. Even BEFORE that, there were blacks living free lives in the US. Was there racism? SURE! There probably was EVERYWHERE! The japanese, mexicans, africans, and chinese have had plenty of racism against whites in their lands as well, even today. But even a lot of THAT in the US is gone. I have met blacks that said they wouldn't hire blacks, and mexicans that said they wouldn't hire mexicans, and even women that said they wouldn't hire women, so I guess it won't be gone 100%.

Steve

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Midnight Oil 9 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

Maybe we need an old beloved white comedian to preach to us about personal responsibility. ( minus the serial raping of course ) How about Bob Newhart?

I thought that's why we got stuck with Jeff Foxworthy.
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seasoned

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

Bill Cosby accusers list: Sexual assault, rape, drugs feature in women's stories.

The stories seem to be a bit different depending on where you read them - but on the link above the first victim's complaint was probably not something you could prosecute.

#1 - Said contact was "consensual" until he placed her hand.....somewhere... she then removed her hand...and then reported to police. She was an adult - there was no attack and no rape. What was the crime?

Just DEVIL'S ADVOCATE!!!!! The current definition of rape, and in law for decades, says a rape requires NO ATTACK, or even lack of a statement of consent. It is rape merely if it was unwanted and the "attacker" should have known. So if she earlier said she wouldn't, was constantly asked before saying yes, or is an underling(as were the cases here), it could be considered rape. Of course, the woman has the final say, if she were 18 or older, at the time.

#2 waited a year to report

#3 - was in " a relationship" with Cosby - and her daughter later was prosecuted for trying to extort Cosby

#4 - waited 30 years to report

#5 - was in "a consensual relationship" with Cosby and waited 21 years to report a problem

#6 - waited 30 years to report

#7 - reported rape after 35 years

#8 - 63 yrs old now - reported THIS YEAR that she was raped by Cosby when she was 19

#9 doesn't make any sense at all. "At a dinner in Lake Tahoe at which they were to discuss her career, she says she asked him for a pill for period cramps,..." She had a chance to boost her career by impressing a famous comedian....and what she does is ask him for pills for menstrual cramps?" Does anyone seriously believe that would be a "dinner conversation"?

Don't ask me why, but men would rather let WOMEN get womens products. It is just one of those things, and apparently women realize it. So the fact that she would ask him for a pill for menstrual cramps makes little more sense than a person trying to communicate with people on MARS to get a subway sandwich.

Why now? Because Cosby had resurfaced with a new show - because he has once again been poking fun at people who are on the dole - who are not taking care of themselves - who are not being responsible parents and citizens. He's been criticizing the status quo once again...and all of a sudden a comedian's jokes about Cosby are taken seriously (though that comedian has been telling that same joke for some time).

I think it's a fascinating story because so much fact is missing - so many claims are questionable - and yet this man's reputation is being destroyed.

WOW! Taking into account what you said, it is possible this is true BUT, it sounds like, EVEN if it IS true, that someone wants him to stop supporting such ideas. You would think that people would see that, even if he were a rapist and downright evil, those ideas ARE valid and could make everyone happier.

Steve

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Mike Anthony

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

Why now? Because Cosby had resurfaced with a new show - because he has once again been poking fun at people who are on the dole - who are not taking care of themselves - who are not being responsible parents and citizens. He's been criticizing the status quo once again...and all of a sudden a comedian's jokes about Cosby are taken seriously (though that comedian has been telling that same joke for some time).

That has to be one of the silliest conspiracy theories I have ever heard. Maye you should merge your argument into the time travel thread since some of the accusations (including a settled court case) go back years.

heres the problem. Implicit in this conspiracy theory is that there is this powerful clandestine machine either in or working on behalf on the Black community to squelch out dissent. Also implicit in the theory is that Cosby being silenced would mean that the viewpoints would vanish as if all other Blacks have no sense of being responsible parents and citizens.

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TimPhelan

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

heres the problem. Implicit in this conspiracy theory is that there is this powerful clandestine machine either in or working on behalf on the Black community to squelch out dissent. Also implicit in the theory is that Cosby being silenced would mean that the viewpoints would vanish as if all other Blacks have no sense of being responsible parents and citizens.

Yep. Plus, what Cosby has said is nothing new. The same thing was being said over 100 years ago, and much more eloquently, by the leading black leader of the era, Booker T. Washington.

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Kay King

9 years ago

one of the silliest conspiracy theories I have ever heard

It's almost identical to a comment I made over the Woody Allen (did he do it?) thread....when the same old allegations once again were headline news and the pundits said "he could still be at risk of prosecution"....

And I said "isn't it interesting this is "news" again just before Ronan Farrow begins his new MSNBC show? Funny thing - the show began and the "news" about Allen disappeared from the media.

I'm not claiming conspiracy - but a willingness to over expose an old story in spite of no new facts to fuel it. Not to "get at" Cosby but to get attention as he was launching a new show so the story might play well.

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Steven Wagenheim

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

It's almost identical to a comment I made over the Woody Allen (did he do it?) thread....when the same old allegations once again were headline news and the pundits said "he could still be at risk of prosecution"....

And I said "isn't it interesting this is "news" again just before Ronan Farrow begins his new MSNBC show? Funny thing - the show began and the "news" about Allen disappeared from the media.

I'm not claiming conspiracy - but a willingness to over expose an old story in spite of no new facts to fuel it. Not to "get at" Cosby but to get attention as he was launching a new show so the story might play well.

Which is another reason why I hate the media. They will jump on anything that they think they can make a buck with no matter how irrelevant it might be, not that rape is irrelevant. But certainly this can't be the first time these allegations have come up. Not after all these years. And I do believe that had Cosby totally disappeared from the public eye, we wouldn't even be discussing this right now.

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thunderbird

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

It's almost identical to a comment I made over the Woody Allen (did he do it?) thread....when the same old allegations once again were headline news and the pundits said "he could still be at risk of prosecution"....

And I said "isn't it interesting this is "news" again just before Ronan Farrow begins his new MSNBC show? Funny thing - the show began and the "news" about Allen disappeared from the media.

I'm not claiming conspiracy - but a willingness to over expose an old story in spite of no new facts to fuel it. Not to "get at" Cosby but to get attention as he was launching a new show so the story might play well.

There's a huge difference between the Bill Cosby and Woody Allen cases. Multiple unrelated victims and witnesses tend to corroborate that a crime was actually committed as is the case with Bill Cosby. In Woody Allen's case, there were multiple witnesses, but actually supporting his case, saying that Mia Farrow was coaching Dylan, that Mia Farrow tried to pressure witnesses to lie -- this includes household help, an ex-girlfriend of Woody Allen's, Connecticut State Police-appointed investigative team from the Yale-New Haven Hospital, and one of Dylan's own adoptive siblings. Unlike Mia Farrow or BIll Cosby, Woody Allen actually took and passed a lie detection test (a cosby victim also took and passed a lie detector test). There is really is not much similarity between the cases of Woody Allen and Bill Cosby. As for the news media, they've been protecting Bill Cosby for decades, eg the NBC employee who said he paid off women on Bill Cosby's behalf.

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TimPhelan 9 years ago

Originally Posted by thunderbird

As for the news media, they've been protecting Bill Cosby for decades, eg the NBC employee who said he paid off women on Bill Cosby's behalf.

Did you see this article from a few days ago TB?

"the response from those in the know has been: What took so long?

What took so long is that those in the know kept it mostly to themselves. No one wanted to disturb the Natural Order of Things, which was that Mr. Cosby was beloved; that he was as generous and paternal as his public image; and that his approach to life and work represented a bracing corrective to the coarse, self-defeating urban black ethos.

Only the first of those things was actually true."

http://nytimes.com/2014/11/25/busine...html?referrer=
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sbucciarel

Banned 9 years ago

Originally Posted by thunderbird

There's a huge difference between the Bill Cosby and Woody Allen cases. Multiple unrelated victims and witnesses tend to corroborate that a crime was actually committed as is the case with Bill Cosby. In Woody Allen's case, there were multiple witnesses, but actually supporting his case, saying that Mia Farrow was coaching Dylan, that she Mia Farrow tried to pressure witnesses to lie -- this includes household help, an ex-girlfriend of Woody Allen's, Connecticut State Police-appointed investigative team from the Yale-New Haven Hospital, and one of Dylan's own adoptive siblings. Unlike Mia Farrow or BIll Cosby, Woody Allen actually took and passed a lie detection test (a cosby victim also took and passed a lie detector test). There is really is not much similarity between the cases of Woody Allen and Bill Cosby. As for the news media, they've been protecting Bill Cosby for decades, eg the NBC employee who said he paid off women on Bill Cosby's behalf.

Lie detectors don't seem to matter to some. One of Cosby's victims also passed a lie detector test.

There is an enormous difference between the Cosby case and the Woody Allen case. Mia Farrow was one dumped, vindictive woman hell bent on revenge for Woody marrying an adopted daughter of hers. Personally, I can see that pissing her off, but the lifelong vendetta only makes her and her daughter and son lying about molestation look crazy and vindictive.

Many here bitch about the news media as if they were prefer that none of them reported on anything ... maybe the weather would be allowed. Just bury your heads in the sand when you don't like what's being reported. I pefer to read everything being reported about a given issue so I can come to my own conclusions.

Bill Cosby gave them the story. It isn't fabricated. He is solely responsible for the media blitz and really lucky that it didn't happen to him sooner. People in Hollywood are still quiet on Cosby. The only three that have come out to support him are his nephew and wife and Whoopi Goldberg. You would think that a man with his power in Hollywood would have dozens and dozens of people supporting him publicly, but he doesn't. I think there's a reason for that. They know.

He's using his poor wife as a silent prop. During interviews, she sits by his side not opening her mouth of course, to prove that she supports him. He worked in one of the few shows he has left that he was married for 50 years and showed the audience his wedding ring. lol. All I can say about a woman of obvious intelligence and good character, is that she could write a song called "Stand By Your Paycheck."

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thunderbird 9 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

<snip> People in Hollywood are still quiet on Cosby. <snip>

They're silent about a lot of despicable and deranged things. The silence is deafening.

All I can say is, if a parent's kid wants to be an actor, they better accompany their child at all times. The entertainment industry is swarming with highly-protected and mollycoddled perverts (Michael Jackson was only one of many).
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TimPhelan 9 years ago

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

Have you seen the Time Travel thread? A few people saying silly things. Is that evidence that time travel is real? Not to me.

That's a pretty silly comparison. ( Not being emotional my friend. )
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TimPhelan 9 years ago

Originally Posted by Kurt

... it's also possible that there are dozens more Cosby victims that haven't come forward...

That's what I've been thinking. To have 20 willing to come forward, indicates there is likely many more who won't. It also seems clear to me that most of the twenty really didn't look at this as some sort of opportunity. Geesh, most are in their 40s, 50s and 60s.
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discrat

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

MLK was a great leader who was known to have a significant number of extra-marital affairs. Back then, you could keep secrets from the press and public....not possible today.

Cosby's not perfect - neither was King. If perfection were required to express an opinion on a topic important to you....it would be a silent world.

Hello............................having affairs outside of a Marriage is NOT illegal and is NOT a crime.

Raping people is.

It is like comparing Apples to Oranges

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Tom B

Banned 9 years ago

Originally Posted by Richard Van

Well I do hope everyone's having a nice Thanksgiving.

I am certainly thankful for not having Thanksgiving at Cosby's house.

I would hate to start eating turkey and then wake up with no pants on. Wait, that happened last year!

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Richard Van

9 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

You too Richard and all. The smell of turkey is starting to fill the house up.

I love that smell. At least it's only another month until it's Christmas.

Originally Posted by Thomas Belknap

I am certainly thankful for not having Thanksgiving at Cosby's house.

I would hate to start eating turkey and then wake up with no pants on. Wait, that happened last year!

I'm afraid it happened the year before too Thomas, he was just running low on rohypnol last year, hence the memory.

On a serious note, I bet it's an absolute bundle of laughs round Bill Cosbys this year. I bet that's one awkward Thanksgiving dinner.

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Frank Donovan

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Thomas Belknap

I am certainly thankful for not having Thanksgiving at Cosby's house.

I would hate to start eating turkey and then wake up with no pants on. Wait, that happened last year!

In our family we always take our pants off before sitting down to eat - it saves on laundry costs. Mind you, not all restaurants seem comfortable with this.

Have a happy Thanksgiving everyone!

Frank

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Richard Van

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Frank Donovan

In our family we always take our pants off before sitting down to eat - it saves on laundry costs. Mind you, not all restaurants seem comfortable with this.

Have a happy Thanksgiving everyone!

Frank

Sorry, don't mind me, I was thinking of the English version of pants and wondered how you managed that in a public place and wondered how it could affect laundry costs.

Then I realised you meant trousers.

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whateverpedia 9 years ago

Originally Posted by Thomas Belknap

I would hate to start eating turkey and then wake up with no pants on. Wait, that happened last year!

You had last year's Thanksgiving at Claude's place?
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ForumGuru

Banned 9 years ago

Cosby has resigned from the Board of Trustees at Temple University.

PHILADELPHIA: Bill Cosby resigns from Temple University board | Celebrities | The News Tribune

Cheers

-don

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Midnight Oil 9 years ago

Woman sues Bill Cosby, claiming underage abuse - Nation - Boston.com
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- seasoned 9 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Midnight Oil
  
  Woman sues Bill Cosby, claiming underage abuse - Nation - Boston.com
  
  How does she explain where she was, and the drinking? Saying everyone does it, and WE LIED, doesn't cut it.
  
  Steve
  
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ForumGuru

Banned 9 years ago

Cosby had accusers's story flushed...

Bill Cosby, under oath, says he gave tabloid exclusive in 2005, had accuser's story spiked

Cosby testimony describes accuser's spiked story - US News

Cheers

-don

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seasoned 9 years ago

Originally Posted by ForumGuru

Cosby had accusers's story flushed...

Cheers

-don

THAT is damning!

Steve
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- ForumGuru Banned 9 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by seasoned
  
  THAT is damning!
  
  Steve
  
  Yeah, he's not looking so pretty...
  
  Cheers
  
  -don
  
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  Karen Blundell 9 years ago
  
  I have seen elaborate smear campaigns before - and if this is another one - it takes the cake -
  
  I now choose to remain neutral because I strongly distrust the media -
  and seeing that most "news" is so disturbing and unhappy for the most part - I now rarely read the news or watch it anywhere - I strongly believe what you focus on effects your mind -
  
  this scandal along with most of the stuff that is published these days are distractions, I think, and...
  
  I think it's healthier to be uninformed.
  
  Peace out -
  
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  thunderbird 9 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Karen Blundell
  
  <snip>
  I now choose to remain neutral because I strongly distrust the media - <snip>-
  
  I distrust the media myself. Look how they protected Bill Cosby, a psychopathic sexual predator and serial rapist, for decades.
  
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ForumGuru

Banned 9 years ago

Here is a overview of 14 of the accusations...

Bill Cosby facing litany of allegations - CNN.com

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-don

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attackdome

9 years ago

And to think he made this show? SMUH.

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seasoned

9 years ago

Karen,

That is probably the best way to be on something like this. We may never know the TRUTH. The suspects, at least in the US, are ALWAYS encouraged to say they did it, even if the didn't. So even a confession, or payment means little. But if we took the standards ****I**** wanted to see, few would ever be convicted. Even if DNA were 100% perfect, the fact that it is often replicated and both sets are tested in the same place, and there is contamination, it can clearly be wrong.

On forensic files, a little girl was harassed into giving a description, and because she used her uncle as a means of describing the guy, they threw the uncle in jail! IRONICALLY, if I had my way, I would have likely INSTANTLY(OK, maybe 2 hours to 2 DAYS) SOLVED the case!

What THEY did:
1. Blamed the uncle, threw him in jail to ROT for a few decades.
2. Overlooked what could be considered perhaps a FELONY.
3. IGNORED the wifes plea to validate #1 with new DNA tests.
4. EVENTUALLY the WIFE had to do their job.
5. They divorced!

What I would have done:
1. Validate that the uncle may have been guilty, and only THEN thrown him in jail.
2. Take the woman at the secondary house, and demand that she say WHY she left a bleeding and potentially severely injured little girl bleeding on her porch for 45 minutes, and even refuse to place a call for her! Do the same with ALL OTHERS at that house at that time.
3. I would have had them account for the time passed, and had them in a lineup with the girl.
4. I would likely have jailed the guilty party THEN AND THERE for a later trial.
5. Hopefully the victims family would be able to laugh it off, and still be married today.

SERIOUSLY! The little girl went to the house of the guy that left her for DEAD, and was told, by his wife, to wait for 45 minutes with a ripped ear that was bleeding. Apparently the police thought NOTHING of it!

Still, it is nice to know if it COULD be true.

Steve

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TimPhelan

9 years ago

Two more have come forward! Plus, Gloria Allred is involved now.

"Allred threw down the gauntlet, asking Cosby to either waive the statute of limitations on allegations that more than 20 women have brought against him, or set up a $100 million account for his accusers and let a panel of retired judges review the claims."

Gloria Allred Suggests Bill Cosby Waive Statute Of Limitations As Two More Women Step Forward

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sbucciarel

Banned 9 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

Two more have come forward! Plus, Gloria Allred is involved now.

"Allred threw down the gauntlet, asking Cosby to either waive the statute of limitations on allegations that more than 20 women have brought against him, or set up a $100 million account for his accusers and let a panel of retired judges review the claims."

Gloria Allred Suggests Bill Cosby Waive Statute Of Limitations As Two More Women Step Forward

I was wondering when Gloria Allred would get involved. She's a very interesting attorney. She deals with the celebrities and famous people cases and once she is involved, the case has a tendency to quietly disappear. I think she arranges outcomes where the defendant salvages his reputation, but the plaintiffs get compensated well for their trauma.

One case in mind is John Travolta being accused by at least 7 male masseurs and others for sexual molestation. Allred representing them all and then all of a sudden, it's out of the news and the first one drops the case. She also has a way of separating the wheat from the chaffe and accusations without merit also quietly disappear.

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Kay King

9 years ago

When I see Gloria Allred - I figure there's either camera time or money to be had. She is known for sleazy cases where accusations are sensationalized. It's what she does.

The more I read these stories (I posted a link to the accusers stories several posts ago but don't know if anyone read those facts or not.

I find it hard to believe someone doesn't know how old they were ("I was 18 or 19 - not sure which) but remembers every word and detail of any encounter. Especially when that woman goes on to say "I was just out of high school" - so she doesn't know here age when she graduated? I don't think you can excuse stuff like that when accusations are being made.

I have a real problem with the number of women STILL coming forward with 30-40 year old allegations - woemn who were never heard from until now. I also have negative views of women who say "we were having an affair" and then go on to claim "and one night...".

Occasionally a story in the news goes so far I'm reminded of the McMartin trials...this has turned into one of those. People took those stories seriously even as the claims got wilder - and were outraged and shocked. People went to prison - lives were damaged - there were dozens and dozens of "witnesses". Five years later when the truth began to emerge...all of the claims were based on lies and imagination. It wasn't a conspiracy - but a piling on of stories one person after another.

asking Cosby to either waive the statute of limitations on allegations that more than 20 women have brought against him, or set up a $100 million account for his accusers and let a panel of retired judges review the claims."

Allred is looking for fame and money - she has no standing in this except she is promising women to get money for them. She inserts herself into cases like this time after time.

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discrat 9 years ago

In all honesty, when I see more and more women coming out and Gloria Allred coming to the rescue it just really leaves me with a bad taste in my mouth .

I just thought this was going to be less about money and more about people getting to vent and get this off their chests and have closure that way.

Now it is just turning into Money, money, money.

I am just going to give my honest, gut feelings right now......it really disappoints me !! The direction this has taken.

Iam not saying that these women are lying and did not experience a horrific incident with Cosby,
I truly think they did

I guess the 'upstanding and altruistic citizen' in me wanted to see these women come together and really get the news out and get some kind of closure as a result of doing this and call this man out.

I guess I am extraordinarily NAIVE. I really did not even think about people setting up a $100 million dollar fund.
This recent action just kind of blew the wind out from my sail.

I guess that is always what it comes down to is the Benjamins, huh ?

And I imagine if Cosby was bankrupt and destitute these Women would not have even bothered ??
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- Kay King 9 years ago
  
  So the black Walt Disney is Jack The Ripper?
  
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seasoned

9 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

Two more have come forward! Plus, Gloria Allred is involved now.

"Allred threw down the gauntlet, asking Cosby to either waive the statute of limitations on allegations that more than 20 women have brought against him, or set up a $100 million account for his accusers and let a panel of retired judges review the claims."

Gloria Allred Suggests Bill Cosby Waive Statute Of Limitations As Two More Women Step Forward

Luckily, I don't think you can waive the statute of limitations. So the most they could expect would be money. If I were him, I would ask her to suck a lemon, as it would give her an excuse.... He has likely already lost over $100 million for this. Throwing down the gauntlet just doesn't fit here. It isn't like she has that much power, or anything to offer.

Steve

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discrat

9 years ago

Originally Posted by seasoned

Luckily, I don't think you can waive the statute of limitations. So the most they could expect would be money. If I were him, I would ask her to suck a lemon, as it would give her an excuse.... He has likely already lost over $100 million for this. Throwing down the gauntlet just doesn't fit here. It isn't like she has that much power, or anything to offer.

Steve

Honestly,
I think the Money aspect should just be thrown out. They have been all this time without the money so why do they need it now ??

Lets talk about principals and what this is about...i.e. calling this a-hole out, consoling one another, and really taking a platform on domestic and sexual abuse.

These women have a opportunity to make a hugely important statement here.
And the World is watching

PLEASE, PLEASE do not taint it with Money.

You will be doing a disservice to women in the future who are victimized by sexual assault

I just thought this was more than just about Money, and it is truly disheartening to see this unfolding

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TimPhelan

9 years ago

Originally Posted by discrat

They have been all this time without the money so why do they need it now ??

Justice. What are they going to do? Just shame him? I don't think that is possible really.

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discrat

9 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

Justice. What are they going to do? Just shame him? I don't think that is possible really.

Yes. Actually making it impossible for him to go outside and not go anywhere without another human being looking at him with disgust is waaaaay more punishment for this guy than Money.

These Women could be a platform or voice to help others who have gone through cases like this or may have to deal with cases like this in the future

The fact that we are talking about just Money ,to me at least, takes away the gravity of the problem.

That is just a gut reaction. And what strikes a chord with me.
I know you and others may not see it that way.

That's cool. I understand

But honestly, I am kind of through with this Case.

Like I said its profoundly disappointing to me , these turn of events with this silly Attorney !
Unreal !!

Its like I am following this Path with these Women and all of the sudden ,BOOM, we take a sharp left turn and
Iam trying to figure out why the deviation from this Path ??

Like I said, these turn of events do not minimize any of the facts and what these Women have gone through.

But I just know Janice Dickerson said that this was NOT about Money at all when she was reeling on ET.

I guess I assumed it was that way for all the women coming out

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TimPhelan

9 years ago

Originally Posted by discrat

Yes. Actually making it impossible for him to go outside and not go anywhere without another human being looking at him with disgust.

He still is getting standing ovations.

Financial rewards in criminal cases has always been a part of our justice system. I'm not sure why it upsets you so much that it is suggested in this case.

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discrat

9 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

He still is getting standing ovations.

Financial rewards in criminal cases has always been a part of our justice system. I'm not sure why it upsets you so much that it is suggested in this case.

I guess it really smacked me in the face because I did not see it coming.

Naivety on my part, probably.

I just know Janice said this was NOT about Money whatsoever. And the emotions I saw her on ET.

Now , I am not a big fan of hers but I guess I assumed that the other Women coming out were not going to be based on any Monetary issue either.

To me I would say, " F*ck you Bill Cosby you scum, I do not want your sticking Money. What you did to me was way beyond anything that Money can buy "

Maybe sometimes I am too gullible to think that people will sometimes address their problems and predicaments without dollar signs in their eyes

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Kay King

9 years ago

Janice Dickinson's plastic surgery bills wiped out as California court discharges debts totalling up to $1 million | Daily Mail Online

Not about money? Is this the person you mean?

Consider the source, of course, of course....but I remember her as being in a news a lot when younger - and usually for rather shocking behavior of one sort or another.

The big problem is no one can defend themselves against claims like this so many years after the fact. You no longer have calendars that outline where you were or who you were with during that time period. The women can say anything with no proof - and there's no way to prove you weren't there or didn't do it. That's why we have statutes of limitation.

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discrat 9 years ago

Well, I am not changing my Mind about Cosby. I think there is just too much damning evidence with this guy.

Iam just a little turned off by all this Money stuff, particularly when certain people have been seemingly 'inconsistent'
about how they feel or what they feel needs to be done in this case ( that being Janice)
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- Mike Anthony 9 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by discrat
  
  Well, I am not changing my Mind about Cosby. I think there is just too much damning evidence with this guy.
  
  Why should you change your mind? This situation was always going to have at least some people attaching themselves to it for money or fame. To make the leap that a lawyer has attached themselves to this with money as the end proves anything was solely motivated for money or any of the conspiracies a few here loves is just desperate logic.
  
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seasoned

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

Janice Dickinson's plastic surgery bills wiped out as California court discharges debts totalling up to $1 million | Daily Mail Online

Not about money? Is this the person you mean?

Consider the source, of course, of course....but I remember her as being in a news a lot when younger - and usually for rather shocking behavior of one sort or another.

The big problem is no one can defend themselves against claims like this so many years after the fact. You no longer have calendars that outline where you were or who you were with during that time period. The women can say anything with no proof - and there's no way to prove you weren't there or didn't do it. That's why we have statutes of limitation.

Actually, SHE should need some evidence to make the accusation. Even if he couldn't account for his time, it doesn't mean he was guilty. As for the statutes, a number of them DO have a legitimate reason for being there. It would be nice if people looked more at the SPIRIT(or reason) of the law, and less at the letter trying to find some loophole that was obviously never intended.

Steve

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sbucciarel

Banned 9 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

...but I remember her as being in a news a lot when younger - and usually for rather shocking behavior of one sort or another.

The big problem is no one can defend themselves against claims like this so many years after the fact. You no longer have calendars that outline where you were or who you were with during that time period. The women can say anything with no proof - and there's no way to prove you weren't there or didn't do it. That's why we have statutes of limitation.

Shocking behavior ... like what? What is shocking to you is probably not so shocking to others. I'm not easily shocked.

Of course, like Thunderbird said, give them all a lie detector test. One woman already passed one. Of course, that includes Cosby. Compare the results. But guess what ... I rather doubt that Cosby would agree to take one. Hmmmm .... I wonder why.

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Tom B

Banned 9 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

I rather doubt that Cosby would agree to take one. Hmmmm .... I wonder why.

I'm speaking about myself, but I wouldn't take one out of principal. There was a time I thought I needed to defend myself from accusations.

Not now.

People can hurl accusations at me for making them feel sad because I said no. It's kind of crazy the things people can accuse you of out of anger.

I refuse to play that game and wouldn't dignify anyone by trying to prove my innocence. To some, my refusal would make me guilty (not saying you Suzanne). I'm ok with that .

Please note, this is purely based on myself. I don't know much about Cosby and all this mess. I always thought that Hollywood was a dirty business. It just seems like everyone is trying to take advantage of everyone else.

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sbucciarel

Banned 9 years ago

Originally Posted by Thomas Belknap

I refuse to play that game and wouldn't dignify anyone by trying to prove my innocence. To some, my refusal would make me guilty (not saying you Suzanne). I'm ok with that .

Please note, this is purely based on myself. I don't know much about Cosby and all this mess. I always thought that Hollywood was a dirty business. It just seems like everyone is trying to take advantage of everyone else.

Would you if, like Cosby, there were millions of dollars and a "comeback" career at stake if you don't clear your name? Seems like it would be well worth the hour or two it would take to put it at rest, unless of course, he wouldn't pass it.

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Tom B

Banned 9 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

Would you if, like Cosby, there were millions of dollars and a "comeback" career at stake if you don't clear your name? Seems like it would be well worth the hour or two it would take to put it at rest, unless of course, he wouldn't pass it.

Nope, monetary gain has nothing to do with the principals I try to live life by. I can't say this is the reason Cosby would or would not try to defend himself. It could be because he is guilty, I don't really know.

I just know my life is infinitely better and easier when I don't cater to those things in my life. I prefer easier and better to more money any day. haha

I don't think a lie detector would matter to most people. If he passed,many would say he beat the lie detector. If he didn't pass, many would still defend him against the accusations. I don't really see the reason to go through it to be honest.

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sbucciarel Banned 9 years ago

Originally Posted by Thomas Belknap

Nope, monetary gain has nothing to do with the principals I try to live life by.

I sure would. In fact, that's the first thing I would have done. Have my lawyer arrange a third party lie detector test and publish the results everywhere. The women would then be pressured, provided he passed, to take their own lie detector tests and that would be interesting to see. I'm sure it would eliminate at least a couple of the accusers.
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Steven Wagenheim

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Thomas Belknap

Nope, monetary gain has nothing to do with the principals I try to live life by. I can't say this is the reason Cosby would or would not try to defend himself. It could be because he is guilty, I don't really know.

I just know my life is infinitely better and easier when I don't cater to those things in my life. I prefer easier and better to more money any day. haha

I don't think a lie detector would matter to most people. If he passed,many would say he beat the lie detector. If he didn't pass, many would still defend him against the accusations. I don't really see the reason to go through it to be honest.

I want to make sure I understand this. Say you have a wife and two kids to take care of and you're the only breadwinner in the family. Your income is being threatened because of accusations against you. You know you're innocent because you didn't do it, but you're not going to defend yourself by taking a lie detector test and instead will let your family starve.

If I did that, I think my wife would divorce me.

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Tom B

Banned 9 years ago

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

I want to make sure I understand this. Say you have a wife and two kids to take care of and you're the only breadwinner in the family. Your income is being threatened because of accusations against you. You know you're innocent because you didn't do it, but you're not going to defend yourself by taking a lie detector test and instead will let your family starve.

If I did that, I think my wife would divorce me.

A rather extreme scenario you posted, Steven.

Why would I be in a position where my family would starve if I didn't take a lie detector? If it came down to livelihood, well, it would end up in the court system where they need to provide proof. Innocence until proven guilty... If they can't provide proof and I can show they hurt me financially it wouldn't end up well for them.

I don't think Cosby will be starving if he doesn't take a lie detector.

Let me ask you this, will you spend the rest of your life defending against accusation after accusation? When do you say enough already?

I will admit my first gut reaction is to fight back. I just know it leads to nowhere very fast in most situations. When talking about a scenario like you presented, I would be forced to fight back. Fighting back doesn't necessarily mean catering to the accusations by trying to defend myself.

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Steven Wagenheim

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Thomas Belknap

A rather extreme scenario you posted, Steven.

Why would I be in a position where my family would starve if I didn't take a lie detector? If it came down to livelihood, well, it would end up in the court system where they need to provide proof. Innocence until proven guilty... If they can't provide proof and I can show they hurt me financially it wouldn't end up well for them.

I don't think Cosby will be starving if he doesn't take a lie detector.

Let me ask you this, will you spend the rest of your life defending against accusation after accusation? When do you say enough already?

I will admit my first gut reaction is to fight back. I just know it leads to nowhere very fast in most situations. When talking about a scenario like you presented, I would be forced to fight back. Fighting back doesn't necessarily mean catering to the accusations by trying to defend myself.

If I were accused of something and could easily prove I didn't do it, I would. Not only that. I would counter sue for that person dragging my name through the mud.

On the other hand, if I'm guilty I shut my mouth and hope it goes away, especially if I know that proving the crime would be difficult to impossible. Once there's actual hard evidence, what does it matter at that point? I'm guilty and that's all there is to it. I take my lumps and try to salvage what I can out of my life.

As I am a rather black and white person in that regard, that's why, in spite of my constanr whining and causing of scenes, legally the worst thing I've ever done was drive my car while on the revoked drivers license list, which turned out to be a computer error in Trenton. But it was cool getting arrested and put in the holding cell. What wasn't cool was having to have my mom drive me down to Trenton to get a letter to give to the judge basically saying "Oops, we goofed."

Now, when I was a very young child (about 5 or so) I did steal a pack of baseball cards from the local drug store. Fortunately the owner was a friend of the family and didn't press charges. He could have. I learned a valuable lesson from that experience. And to this day I still feel badly about it. I was a bad kid. No question about it. Fortunately, I grew up very fast and learned the difference between right and wrong quickly.

That is why if somebody accused me of something today, I'd be outraged. I'd threaten to sue them for every dime they had, especially if it threatened to harm my family in any way.

But that's just me. Everybody is different.

I was just curious as to where you fell on this issue if it were to happen to you. I mean I understand about not wanting to have to defend yourself against unwarranted accusations your whole life. But at the same time, do you want people to just walk all over you and destroy your reputation and possibly your family's livelihood?

That's where I draw the line.

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Midnight Oil

9 years ago

The hits just keep coming.

Bill Cosby accused of sexually assaulting TWELVE Playboy bunnies

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sbucciarel

Banned 9 years ago

Originally Posted by Midnight Oil

The hits just keep coming.

Bill Cosby accused of sexually assaulting TWELVE Playboy bunnies

From that story, for everyone wondering why she hasn't spoken sooner ....

Masten said she told her supervisor at the Playboy club soon after the alleged assault, only to be told: 'You know that's Hef's best friend, right?', referring to Playboy founder Hugh Hefner.

Masten recalled: 'I said, 'Yes.' She said, 'Well, nobody is going to believe you. I suggest you keep your mouth shut'.'

The blonde said she's been in therapy for years - but said she had been prompted to come forward decades later by Judy Huth, who claims Cosby attacked her at the Playboy mansion in LA when she was just 15 in 1974.

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TimPhelan 9 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

From that story, for everyone wondering why she hasn't spoken sooner ....

They all have good reasons for not coming forward sooner. This lady says she went to therapy for years. I wonder if she could use the therapist's records to prove this?

I wonder about his wife. She must have known he at least fooled around. Perhaps they had an open marriage.

So much for this story disappearing after the Ferguson grand jury results/riots.
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ForumGuru

Banned 9 years ago

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

If I were accused of something and could easily prove I didn't do it, I would. Not only that. I would counter sue for that person dragging my name through the mud.

He does not want any to provide any ammo (especially testimony under oath) as bad things may/will happen. That's why he is staying as quiet as a mouse.

Bill Cosby, under oath, says he gave tabloid exclusive in 2005, had accuser's story spiked

PHILADELPHIA (AP) — Bill Cosby testified under oath in 2005 that he gave the National Enquirer an exclusive interview about looming sexual-assault accusations by a Canadian woman against him in exchange for the tabloid spiking a second accuser's story.

Excerpts released Wednesday of Cosby's deposition from a civil lawsuit filed by Andrea Constand quote Cosby as saying he feared the public would believe her sexual-assault accusations if the Enquirer published similar claims by Beth Ferrier. Both women accused Cosby of drugging and molesting them.

"Did you ever think that if Beth Ferrier's story was printed in the National Enquirer, that that would make the public believe that maybe Andrea was also telling the truth?" Cosby was asked.

"Exactly," Cosby replied, according to court motions initially filed under seal and made available from archived federal court records.

Cosby, in the deposition, said he had a contract with the Enquirer.

"I would give them an exclusive story, my words," Cosby said in the Sept. 29, 2005, deposition. In return, "they would not print the story of — print Beth's story."

The release of the documents comes after Cosby this month was shown on an Associated Press video trying to persuade the news cooperative not to use his response when asked this month about sexual-abuse allegations.

"I would appreciate if it was scuttled," Cosby said in a videotaped exchange with the AP on Nov. 6.

Cosby said in 2005 he had been given a draft of Ferrier's interview with the Enquirer and was told she had passed its lie-detector test. He said he also was given an advance look at his exclusive, titled "My Story," which warned that he would defend against anyone trying to "exploit" him.

Constand later sued Cosby and the Enquirer, alleging defamation. The claims were consolidated with her sexual-assault lawsuit against Cosby and were settled.

Cosby testimony describes accuser's spiked story - US News

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Claude Whitacre

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

I want to make sure I understand this. Say you have a wife and two kids to take care of and you're the only breadwinner in the family. Your income is being threatened because of accusations against you. You know you're innocent because you didn't do it, but you're not going to defend yourself by taking a lie detector test and instead will let your family starve.

If I did that, I think my wife would divorce me.

A lie detector can't tell if you are lying. Only if you are stressed by it.

And passing a lie detector test wouldn't make the lawsuits go away.

I wouldn't take the test, myself. If you take the test, regardless of the results, it's just adding wood to the fire.

If Cosby took the test and passed, would this thread theme change to "Cosby is innocent"? Not on your life.

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sbucciarel

Banned 9 years ago

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

If Cosby took the test and passed, would this thread theme change to "Cosby is innocent"? Not on your life.

If Cosby took the test and passed with flying colors, I would disregard the allegations until they all took one.

I can forgive raping all the women, but what about the bunnies? Is there no shame?

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thunderbird

9 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

If Cosby took the test and passed with flying colors, I would disregard the allegations until they all took one.

I can forgive raping all the women, but what about the bunnies? Is there no shame?

I would say that the victims should all take lie detector tests with the most reputable sources. This could help their credibility. Polygraph tests are certainly indicative of facts. Very few people are adept at fooling them.

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sbucciarel

Banned 9 years ago

Originally Posted by thunderbird

I would say that the victims should all take lie detector tests with the most reputable sources. This could help their credibility. Polygraph tests are certainly indicative of facts. Very few people are adept at fooling them.

Exactly. Some criminals have learned to control their responses and being on medication can alter the results, but an average person unmedicated, after given the control set of questions, is going to show either a pattern of deception or not. If a person is highly reactive to control questions that are neutral, they start there as the baseline.

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seasoned

9 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

Exactly. Some criminals have learned to control their responses and being on medication can alter the results, but an average person unmedicated, after given the control set of questions, is going to show either a pattern of deception or not. If a person is highly reactive to control questions that are neutral, they start there as the baseline.

Not that I even need it, but I could go off of toporol, or take something like grapefruit juice, and my blood pressure and pulse could go all over the map.

You put an AWFUL lot of faith into stress ALWAYS building on itself! There IS an ultimate peak, so obviously it DOESN'T always build on itself. If someone has run for their life, do you REALLY think a lie is going to push it still higher? Of course some lie without having ANY indication of having done so.

I guess the next thing you will do is fight to have lie detectors REPLACE the court system. I mean if we can simply ask a good question, and find out if they tell the truth, WHY have lawyers, juries, judges, or even court rooms?

Steve

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sbucciarel

Banned 9 years ago

Originally Posted by seasoned

I guess the next thing you will do is fight to have lie detectors REPLACE the court system. I mean if we can simply ask a good question, and find out if they tell the truth, WHY have lawyers, juries, judges, or even court rooms?

Steve

Once again, your response is just too foolish to respond to. Don't know why I bother. Lie detectors are a tool. Not a complete solution and not to replace court, but then Bill Cosby and all the women being willing to take one indicates to me that they are unafraid of the truth. You being all over the map under any circumstances, whether hooked up or not, is a given.

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Claude Whitacre

9 years ago

Originally Posted by thunderbird

I would say that the victims should all take lie detector tests with the most reputable sources. This could help their credibility. Polygraph tests are certainly indicative of facts. Very few people are adept at fooling them.

It isn't being adept. There is no skill. Some people simply don't have a physical reaction when confronted with a crime. Some don't see themselves as guilty. Some have distanced themselves from the crime. Some people lie, and don't have a physical reaction. And Psychopaths wouldn't show a reaction, because they don't feel guilt.

And if you tell a story often enough, it becomes your reality. After many years, Cosby could simply not have the same story in his memory. The same with the girls. Details are forgotten, gaps in memory are filled in with whatever fits the rest of the story.

I don't know how accurate the results would be, after all these years.

Lie detectors cannot tell if you lied. They can only tell if it bothers you...that you lied.

Added later; I must have confused the issue. Lie detectors can only detect physical stress, caused by lying. But if you aren't bothered by lying, you'll show no stress. There. We can all be friends again.

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sbucciarel

Banned 9 years ago

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

Lie detectors cannot tell if you lied. They can only tell if it bothers you...that you lied.

.... so that means that if the results show that you are "bothered" by lying, then you're probably not telling the truth, unless of course, the truth bothers you too.

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Claude Whitacre

9 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

.... so that means that if the results show that you are "bothered" by lying, then you're probably not telling the truth, unless of course, the truth bothers you too.

Ummmm..... no.

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Kay King

9 years ago

It's not "bothered" in a cognitive way - it's an unconscious physical reaction. If administered by a true expert, hard to beat the test unless you are truly a psychopath with no conscious or unconscious guilt.

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Kurt

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

It's not "bothered" in a cognitive way - it's an unconscious physical reaction. If administered by a true expert, hard to beat the test unless you are truly a psychopath with no conscious or unconscious guilt.

Or you bite your tongue hard enough to cause pain when answering questions honestly to throw the polygraph calibration off to match incorrect answers. People trained in biofeedback can also beat it fairly often.

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thunderbird

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Kurt

Or you bite your tongue hard enough to cause pain when answering questions honestly to throw the polygraph calibration off to match incorrect answers. People trained in biofeedback can also beat it fairly often.

After looking into it more deeply, I can see that polygraphs are a bad idea. Scientific investigation into their reliability establishes that they are inaccurate and prone to error:
The Limits of the Polygraph | Issues in Science and Technology

Sure, I look indecisive in researching it, then changing my mind. I don't have to stick to my mistakes in order to look decisive. I'm not a politician.

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Claude Whitacre

9 years ago

Originally Posted by thunderbird

After looking into it more deeply, I can see that polygraphs are a bad idea. Scientific investigation into their reliability establishes that they are inaccurate and prone to error:
The Limits of the Polygraph | Issues in Science and Technology

Sure, I look indecisive in researching it, then changing my mind. I don't have to stick to my mistakes in order to look decisive. I'm not a politician.

It's also human nature. The fact that you bothered to research at all, after your post, shows a real desire to know the facts.

It doesn't show indecisiveness, it shows intelligence.

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Steven Wagenheim

9 years ago

I'm still waiting to see Bill Cosby stick his winky through a Cheerio.

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discrat 9 years ago

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

I'm still waiting to see Bill Cosby stick his winky through a Cheerio.

Oh , Steven you naughty little boy
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Rod Cortez

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

I'm still waiting to see Bill Cosby stick his winky through a Cheerio.

Is that a regular Cheerio or a Honey nut Cheerio? O_o

RoD

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Steven Wagenheim

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Rod Cortez

Is that a regular Cheerio or a Honey nut Cheerio? O_o

RoD

I'm not picky. He can surprise me.

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TimPhelan

9 years ago

Well, it's been a while since a new accuser came forward. Yesterday supermodel Beverly Johnson wrote an article in Vanity Fair that describes how she says Cosby drugged her 3 decades ago.

Bill Cosby Drugged Me. This Is My Story. | Vanity Fair

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Mike Anthony

9 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

Well, it's been a while since a new accuser came forward. Yesterday supermodel Beverly Johnson wrote an article in Vanity Fair that describes how she says Cosby drugged her 3 decades ago.

Couldn't read through it not because it wasn't credible or don't sympathize but the MO is so out there now you pretty know what the process and ending is. So much so reading the specifics just felt like voyeurism without any new enlightenment.

Not much more people coming forward was probably a good thing at least it means publicity seekers are not jumping on board like I thought might happen

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sbucciarel

Banned 9 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

Well, it's been a while since a new accuser came forward. Yesterday supermodel Beverly Johnson wrote an article in Vanity Fair that describes how she says Cosby drugged her 3 decades ago.

Bill Cosby Drugged Me. This Is My Story. | Vanity Fair

She's actually not a new one and has told her story before. She just published this new piece for Vanity Fair. She is very credible and she was not raped. She was drugged and was aware of what was happening to her, especially when Cosby attempted to hold her ... she fought him and called him names. He became very angry and dragged her out of the house by her arm and dumped her in a cab. She then passed out and can only assume that her doorman helped her to her room because she does not recall getting into her own bed and slept the better part of the next day away.

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Electrical 9 years ago

I wouldn't mind being drugged and raped by a super model. Hell, I'd pay for it.
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TimPhelan

9 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

She's actually not a new one and has told her story before.

Are you sure Suzanne? I looked at the lists of accusers and don't see her name appearing until yesterday. There was another well known model among the accusers.

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sbucciarel

Banned 9 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

Are you sure Suzanne? I looked at the lists of accusers and don't see her name appearing until yesterday. There was another well known model among the accusers.

Her name was posted on Nov 26th. (which yeah, is fairly new - she's the newest one on that list). Probably the reason you're hearing about her again is the Vanity Fair piece of Dec 11. or so.

Bill Cosby accusers list: Sexual assault, rape, drugs feature in women's stories.

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Claude Whitacre 9 years ago

After work today, we went out to a local restaurant for lunch.

My wife ordered tea to drink. The waitress asked what kind, and I offered "I think we would like to try the new Bill Cosby brand, "Peaceful Slumber".

I bombed there too.
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lanfear63 9 years ago

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

I'm not picky. He can surprise me.

Knowing your musical background I'm suprised that you did not opt for Fruity Loops
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seasoned

9 years ago

Originally Posted by discrat

Honestly,
I think the Money aspect should just be thrown out. They have been all this time without the money so why do they need it now ??

Lets talk about principals and what this is about...i.e. calling this a-hole out, consoling one another, and really taking a platform on domestic and sexual abuse.

These women have a opportunity to make a hugely important statement here.
And the World is watching

PLEASE, PLEASE do not taint it with Money.

You will be doing a disservice to women in the future who are victimized by sexual assault

I just thought this was more than just about Money, and it is truly disheartening to see this unfolding

The timing is such that it looks like it was always about money. Does cosby do such things all the time? I doubt it. But he may have some fear or need, or just sees things disappearing, and wanted to do all this new stuff. HECK, it could be simply because of the new show he was going to start. Whatever, he is at a point that I think might be like the sixth or seventh such case in his life, and they come out NOW?

GEE, I think the last film I saw him make was meteor man. He got 11th billing! You want to see WHY?

The mute vagrant Marvin (Bill Cosby) attacks the gang by using the powers from a chunk of the meteor that he kept, but in the midst of the battle, he drops it.

It says MUTE but, IIRC, that isn't EXACTLY true! He could speak DOG!

Likewise, IIRC, he had the DOGS attack!

Steve

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ForumGuru

Banned 9 years ago

Originally Posted by seasoned

Luckily, I don't think you can waive the statute of limitations.

A court cannot force a defendant to use a statute of limitations defense, but it is usually in the person's best legal interests to do so. Nevertheless, defendants do sometimes waive the defense. The defense may be waived by an agreement of the parties to the controversy, provided that the agreement is supported by adequate consideration. For example, a debtor's agreement to waive the statute of limitations in exchange for a creditor's agreement not to sue is valuable consideration that prevents the debtor from using the defense.

Waiving the Defense legal definition of Waiving the Defense

You can take a look at this William And Mary Law Review article...

The Statute of Limitations in a Criminal Case: Can
It Be Waived?

Conclusion:

In Wild the court held that, by an express agreement with the
prosecution, the defendant had validly waived his statute of limitations
defense.

http://scholarship.law.wm.edu/cgi/vi...7&context=wmlr

Cheers

-don

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seasoned 9 years ago

Originally Posted by ForumGuru

Cheers

-don

The bolded section said waving the DEFENSE, NOT the statute of limitations! The rest said, among other things: "The defendant must, however, have done something that amounted to an affirmative inducement to the plaintiff to delay bringing the action. ". So the example IS a special case where a person DEFINITELY owes the money, and may be sued, but the NOTIFICATION OR ACTION BY THE PLAINTIFF effectively restarted the clock. The same is true of insurance and some other things, but there is no similarity here.

HECK, I was once sued at a time that I STILL feel was outside of the statute of time to start it, but they argued that they came in on like the last day to finish it, and thus it was "timely". GRANTED, I never had my day in court and "settled", but that was solely because I was out of the state and could not even get my three old paperwork in order, let alone take time for the farce. The lawyer didn't want to talk to me until the hearing!

And THAT, like the one YOU pointed to, was a CIVIL matter. Could I be sued NOW for something I had done, etc? SURE! Could I be encouraged to pay? MAYBE. But if jail time were on the table then, it certainly isn't now. SO, as I said, all they could get is money.

Cosby is not definitely guilty, there apparently was no action taken at a time when he clearly was. And such an action must always be before the statute of limitations is up. Even if it is simply a good faith action that fails.

Could they sue cosby? SURE! Could they maybe get money? SURE! But it isn't like it would have been if they had done it when the supposed act had been done. IMAGINE, a lot of people may never have even heard of him!

Steve
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- ForumGuru Banned 9 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by seasoned
  
  The bolded section said waving the DEFENSE, NOT the statute of limitations!
  
  Instead of typing so much and using all of those unnecessary capital letters, take the time to read the William and Mary Law Review article that I linked in the same post. Can you read the title now, Steve?
  
  The Statute of Limitations in a Criminal Case: Can It Be Waived?
  
  Volume: 18 Issue: 4 Article: 8
  
  http://scholarship.law.wm.edu/cgi/vi...7&context=wmlr
  
  Conclusion
  
  In Wild the court held that, by an express agreement with the
  prosecution, the defendant had validly waived his statute of limitations
  defense.
  
  FWIW, in a civil matter the statute of limitations IS a defense. Ordinarily the defendant must plead the defense in court before answering the complaint.
  
  Cheers
  
  -don
  
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WalkingCarpet

Banned 9 years ago

So the black Walt Disney is Jack The Ripper?

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ForumGuru

Banned 9 years ago

@ Steve

Here is an interesting article titled: Defense Should Be Careful About Statute Of Limitations Waivers

White Collar Crime Prof Blog

And here you go straight from Justice ---> Criminal Resource Manual 656

656 Waiver of the Statute of Limitations

A knowing and intelligent waiver of the statute of limitations is valid, see United States v. Levine, 658 F.2d 113, 120 n. 8 (3d Cir. 1981); United States v. Wild, 551 F.2d 418 (D.C.Cir.), cert. denied, 431 U.S. 916 (1977); but contra, Benes v. United States, 276 F.2d 99 (6th Cir. 1960). A plea of guilty (without expressly reserving the statute of limitations) has been held to waive later assertion of the defense, see United States v. Doyle, 348 F.2d 715 (2d Cir.), cert. denied, 382 U.S. 843 (1965); United States v. Guerro, 694 F.2d 898 (2d Cir. 1982), cert. denied, 459 U.S. 1222 (1983).

http://www.justice.gov/usao/eousa/fo...9/crm00656.htm

Cheers

-don

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Kay King 9 years ago

I am not changing my Mind about Cosby

I guess that's where I go off the reservation. It's not up to me to decide what Cosby did or didn't do - or to decide what women are truthful and which are liars.

There are enough questions on both sides to keep me from "deciding" and since it's none of my business to decide...I'll remain indecisive.
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seasoned

9 years ago

Originally Posted by ForumGuru

@ Steve

Here is an interesting article titled: Defense Should Be Careful About Statute Of Limitations Waivers

White Collar Crime Prof Blog

And here you go straight from Justice ---> Criminal Resource Manual 656

Cheers

-don

OK, that is all weird. So the way you read it, if he were accidentally charged with a rape now, that the statute said was not allowed, that, if he confessed, they could throw him in jail as if he were to do the same WITHIN the statute. The defense could not then argue that it was outside of the statute, because the confession would waive that exclusion.

Steve

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thunderbird

9 years ago

Here's an idea. Let Bill Cosby and all of his alleged victims take lie detector tests and compare the results.

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seasoned

9 years ago

Originally Posted by thunderbird

Here's an idea. Let Bill Cosby and all of his alleged victims take lie detector tests and compare the results.

There is NO such thing as a lie detector! It is a MARKETING ploy by a bunch of people to basically monetize the polygraph.

HECK, it is a POLYgraph because so much has been disproven. Even THAT has been disproven, so they ask test questions and say you have to be certified or whatever, to understand it.

It WOULD be nice if you could ask a clear question that could not be distorted, and test the answer, but there is a reason why nobody does it.

Steve

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sbucciarel Banned 9 years ago

Originally Posted by seasoned

There is NO such thing as a lie detector! It is a MARKETING ploy by a bunch of people to basically monetize the polygraph.
Steve

Right ... I'll bet you heard that from Hannity, didn't you?
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- Tom B Banned 9 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by sbucciarel
  
  Right ... I'll bet you heard that from Hannity, didn't you?
  
  Ok, that got a chuckle out of me.
  
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  sbucciarel Banned 9 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Thomas Belknap
  
  Ok, that got a chuckle out of me.
  
  There's two accusers on my list that I don't believe are at all credible. This one, because her lawyer demanded $200,000 before filing a civil suit, and the one that had a long history of criminality, including fraud and ID theft.
  
  Judy Huth has accused Cosby, 77, of sexually molesting her at the Playboy Mansion in Los Angeles in 1974 when she was 15.
  
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- seasoned 9 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by sbucciarel
  
  Right ... I'll bet you heard that from Hannity, didn't you?
  
  NOPE! I never heard Hannity's position on it. But MANY have said it. I have seen a LOT of things affect me in every way. Temp, pulse, blood pressure, etc... HECK, I had to explain something lately to some because, though most would be more emotional, I am NOT, but I sound somewhat emotional at times because of a cold I am getting over.
  
  Frankly, I tend to get worked up just at the ACCUSATION, FORGET about the "lie detector" or any lie. So I could say the sky was blue on a bright sunny day and it may look like a lie.
  
  GEE, why do you think they don't have "lie detectors" all over the place? I mean they have ones NOW, that are TINY! They detect vocal tremors. I believe they even have PHONE APPS to do it. But IT DOESN'T WORK! It is about as reliable as the 1970s MOOD RING, and for the SAME reasons!
  
  How Mood Rings Work - YouTube
  
  Steve
  
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Kay King

9 years ago

There were a few accusers ten years ago...then it comes up again this year and there are more and more accusers....nothing really happens and all of a sudden there's someone claiming "I was 15" and BOOM it's a crisis and prosecutors are "looking into it"?

If nothing happens now - what's next? Someone saying "he molested me when I was 3"???? The piling on is a bit much.

If I were Cosby I'd do what he's doing. I'd ignore it - pull up the bridge over the moat - and let these women and the media go at it. I'd do nothing unless some prosecutor tried to press charges...then I'd fight it with everything I had. I would not agree to do anything I did not by law have to do.

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sbucciarel

Banned 9 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

There were a few accusers ten years ago...then it comes up again this year and there are more and more accusers....nothing really happens and all of a sudden there's someone claiming "I was 15" and BOOM it's a crisis and prosecutors are "looking into it"?

In reality, there were 14 accusers in 2006, 13 of which were willing to testify in a criminal trial.

Originally Posted by Kay King

If I were Cosby I'd do what he's doing. I'd ignore it

Don't have a problem with that at all, but how's that working for him?

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Kay King

9 years ago

For the last time - I'm not arguing guilt or innocence. I really don't know what he did. But I do know 30-40 years is a long time and not one single woman has any tangible proof.

Because of that and because there are statutes of limitation - and because Allred is what she is - I think I'd take the same path Cosby has taken so far.

The 13 from ten years ago aren't as impressive to me - they were able to complain andhad there been charges and financial penalties they might have profited years ago. If there was no conviction they could (and did) remain anonymous.

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sbucciarel

Banned 9 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

For the last time - I'm not arguing guilt or innocence. I really don't know what he did. But I do know 30-40 years is a long time and not one single woman has any tangible proof.

For the last time - there isn't going to tangible proof for crimes committed years and years ago. I don't believe every single one of these women. I think some of them are con artists who smell money. But there are a significant amount of them that I do believe, and that's what it's all about ... what the pubic believes, because there isn't going to be a criminal trial with limitations exceeded.

As for Alredd taking sleazy cases, you're right about that. She often takes cases where the sleezes are accused of sexual assault.

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Tom B Banned 9 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

Don't have a problem with that at all, but how's that working for him?

Him ignoring or not ignoring it wouldn't have mattered. I bet things would have played out the same way regardless.
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pauljones99

9 years ago

How do you know one way or the other?

There are some really sad, lonely, people here that spend far too much time posting on the Net.. You need to switch it off and get out in the real world!

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sbucciarel

Banned 9 years ago

Originally Posted by pauljones99

How do you know one way or the other?

There are some really sad, lonely, people here that spend far too much time posting on the Net.. You need to switch it off and get out in the real world!

I just read through all your posts, which are mostly a bunch of trollish responses to threads rather than posts that indicate that you actually make any money on the Net ... like calling IMers obese and giving dietary advice and bashing cold callers, and

oh god.......what do "i think"?
you don't want to know....
10 minutes here and my head is throbbing!

GRIEF....what's happening to this place.
"How do I..."
"should I..."
"Can I..."
"Tell me what to do..."

and "How long is a piece of string?"

and pot calling kettle black here "He sounds like a troll. Thx for the reply though."

and this gem "Look who's talking! It got some good replies until you chipped in with your complaining. Misreable f*****!!!"

Get out in the real world dude and switch it off and go away troll.

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pauljones99

9 years ago

[DELETED]

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Richard Van 9 years ago

Originally Posted by pauljones99

There are some really sad, lonely, people here that spend far too much time posting on the Net.. You need to switch it off and get out in the real world!

So on that note, why are you here?

By the way, I'm not actually in the forum. I'm at my office, which oddly enough is in the real world and it's out too as I'm not at home.

One more thing Paul, you've made 8 posts so far in about 20 minutes, 4 of those were in a row in one thread. Pot. Kettle. Black.
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- Kay King 9 years ago
  
  Now we have sad, lonely people....and a troll, too? Wow, we're moving up in the world.
  
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  Steven Wagenheim 9 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Kay King
  
  Now we have sad, lonely people....and a troll, too? Wow, we're moving up in the world.
  
  We sho is
  
  the Jeffersons intro theme song(Movin on Up) -...
  
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Rick Rodd

9 years ago

Play nice guys, this thread's close to getting closed. I got my eyes on this thread.

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TimothyW

9 years ago

Quick question -- how do I unsubscribe from a thread?

(note: never had to ask that before)

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ForumGuru

Banned 9 years ago

Originally Posted by TimothyW

Quick question -- how do I unsubscribe from a thread?

(note: never had to ask that before)

Quick Links --> Subscribed threads --> Check the proper thread --> Scroll to the bottom of the page --> In selected threads choose the delete subscription option --> Go

Cheers

-don

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TimPhelan

9 years ago

LAPD is opening an investigation into Cosby allegations.

"Police Chief Charlie Beck on Thursday urged potential victims of sex abuse by Cosby to speak with detectives, regardless of whether their claims were outside the statute of limitations."

LAPD Investigates Bill Cosby Allegations

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Kay King 9 years ago

Looks like Cosby is going to fight back.

BBC News - Bill Cosby: Comic counter-suing over sex allegations

Another woman making charges is 64 and says she was "a blond bombshell" - there's something sad about that to me.
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Mike Anthony

9 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

LAPD is opening an investigation into Cosby allegations.

"Police Chief Charlie Beck on Thursday urged potential victims of sex abuse by Cosby to speak with detectives, regardless of whether their claims were outside the statute of limitations."

LAPD Investigates Bill Cosby Allegations

Huge mistake. I can now see a way out for him. If enough suspect people tie themselves to this (and this is what this is almost begging for) he and his lawyers can rebuff three or four and say

"See? this is what they all are like. You don't seriously expect us to answer every other one."

I got to admit I'd swing back on the fence and I have him down as guilty as charged.

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seasoned

9 years ago

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TimPhelan 9 years ago

"...he could quickly lose all his supporters"

You mean all two of them, Woopi Goldberg and Jill Scott?
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TLTheLiberator

9 years ago

Hugh Hefner Responds To Bill Cosby Sexual Assault Allegations

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TimPhelan 9 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

Hugh Hefner Responds To Bill Cosby Sexual Assault Allegations

Heff didn't help his old friend much with that statement!
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Mike Anthony

9 years ago

LOL saw something in this thread an hour ago that you don't often see

A spam post for pharmaceuticals that was almost relevant.

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Steven Wagenheim

9 years ago

Here's the latest.

Bill Cosby Breaks Silence Amid Allegations: "Black Media" Should Stay "Neutral" - The Hollywood Reporter

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Mike Anthony

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

Here's the latest.

Bill Cosby Breaks Silence Amid Allegations: "Black Media" Should Stay "Neutral" - The Hollywood Reporter

The only worthy thing he said was complimenting his wife..All the rest was a diversion of blaming the media and pulling a card that has nothing to do with anything.

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Kay King

9 years ago

explains in the article that she frequently writes for the African-American media

In his comments about that person, I think he makes a good point. Was it necessary for the author to say that? What if she said she frequently writes for Caucasian media? See how that doesn't work?

If she "frequently" writes for African-American media....who does she write for the rest of the time? Am I the only one who thinks that comment has no place in a news worthy article?

Do people believe other stars of that era did NOT fool around or make passes at starlets (or for most of these - wannabe starlets)? I wonder if the public would be as quick to believe stories about other stars - or if you need to have a clean image to begin with to make it "newsworthy"?

I don't know what he did or didn't do - but it looks like a feeding frenzy to me.

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sbucciarel

Banned 9 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

Do people believe other stars of that era did NOT fool around or make passes at starlets (or for most of these - wannabe starlets)? I wonder if the public would be as quick to believe stories about other stars - or if you need to have a clean image to begin with to make it "newsworthy"?

Drugged sexual assault is two crimes (drugging and sexual assault) and not even close to people fooling around and making passes at starlets.

The public would not be as quick to believe if there weren't already a settled lawsuit with that involved 15 of these women previously. It also wouldn't be as quick to believe if there weren't 25 of them.

I find it rather difficult to believe that EVERYBODY is lying, except of course for Cosby. Yeah, right.

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Electrical

9 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

I find it rather difficult to believe that EVERYBODY is lying, except of course for Cosby. Yeah, right.

I'm not defending Cosby. But I don't find it difficult to believe that people are opportunists that come out of the woodwork when they see a chance for money, notoriety, publicity, etc.

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sbucciarel

Banned 9 years ago

Originally Posted by Electrical

I'm not defending Cosby. But I don't find it difficult to believe that people are opportunists that come out of the woodwork when they see a chance for money, notoriety, publicity, etc.

So, the woman who filed criminal charges and her 13 witnesses to testify that the same thing happened to them are all opportunists that just came out of the woodwork? They've been telling the same story since 2006. So, while there could possibly a few opportunists in the list, I would seriously doubt that they all are.

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Electrical

9 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

So, the woman who filed criminal charges and her 13 witnesses to testify that the same thing happened to them are all opportunists that just came out of the woodwork? They've been telling the same story since 2006. So, while there could possibly a few opportunists in the list, I would seriously doubt that they all are.

Yes, they very well could be. There's been a lot worse.

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sbucciarel

Banned 9 years ago

Originally Posted by Electrical

Yes, they very well could be. There's been a lot worse.

Is it also human nature to just quietly settle the case out of court, as he did so that they wouldn't all show up and prove their case? Seems like an innocent man would want to prove that he was indeed, an innocent man.

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Kay King

9 years ago

a settled lawsuit with that involved 15 of these women previously

The lawsuit was between Cosby and ONE woman - and the settlement was with that one women. The other 12 (not 15) were women who submitted their claims in support of that one woman.

She said her problem was in 2004 - she reported it to police in 2005 - filed suit in 2006. Police did not pursue it - there was no evidence.

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sbucciarel

Banned 9 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

The lawsuit was between Cosby and ONE woman - and the settlement was with that one women. The other 12 (not 15) were women who submitted their claims in support of that one woman.

She said her problem was in 2004 - she reported it to police in 2005 - filed suit in 2006. Police did not pursue it - there was no evidence.

I'm aware that the settlement was with one woman with 13 witnesses who had similar stories to testify. And the DA in that case said that he found her very credible but didn't think there was enough evidence to win in court and that he found Cosby evasive.

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Kay King

9 years ago

I think the problem is - no evidence. Hearsay, stories, claims, people who say "she told me but that's not the same thing she told me"...

I don't believe that many women were accosted/molested/raped/drugged - and not ONE of them had a drug test - went to a doctor or hospital - went straight to police. I'm not defending Cosby - but I'm not convicting him either. I'm not saying all the women are lying - but I don't believe them all, either.

Honestly - I can think back to men I had dinner with 20-30 years ago - met after hours due to business - sports figures I went out with - a couple pols I knew well, etc. Many of the things that did happen could be remembered slightly differently to remove any deliberate actions on my part and put the 'blame' on someone else. It wouldn't be hard to do. There were people who would remember 'seeing her with him' - or others who could say they were with "with them the early part of the evening" or similar 'backup testimony'. I could say I was "tired so must have been drugged" or that I was "feeling drunk so must have been drugged"....but saying it doesn't make it true without proof.

Interesting story to watch, though.

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Kay King

9 years ago

Bill Cosby: Phylicia Rashad Defends Comedian Against Rape Allegations : People.com

Allred has found 3 more women now -two in the 80s and one in the 90's....of course. Over 2 dozen now - with not one piece of evidence or medical exam or call to police at the time? Sure. When Allred got involved - and when the two ex-models started offering speaking engagements to talk about Cosby...I lost what little sympathy I had for these women.

Attorney Allred is addressing rude comments to those who are speaking out in defense of Cosby. Never mind they know Cosby well - worked closely with him for years....and Allred probably never met him....

This whole story is taking on a bit a circus atmosphere - and not in a fun way.

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positivenegative

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

This whole story is taking on a bit a circus atmosphere - and not in a fun way.

A bit like the 488 posts before you resurrected the thread, Kay.

Until something concrete happens it's just hearsay and old news. There's a lot more important stuff going on in the world right now other than the blather surrounding old man Cosby.

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Kay King 9 years ago

I guess I did - so sorry to bother you so much you had to reply. Just saw some more headlines about it and thought it interesting. I'll toddle off now...
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Cali16

9 years ago

Originally Posted by positivenegative

There's a lot more important stuff going on in the world right now other than the blather surrounding old man Cosby.

And you started a thread just four days ago on constipated goldfish... Um, okay; that's hardly what most would consider "more important stuff"... http://www.warriorforum.com/off-topi...-your-pet.html

Nothing wrong with Kay adding a recent update to this thread; certainly makes more sense than starting a new thread.

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discrat

9 years ago

"Forget these women,"

Wow, what truly an insensitive thing to say. Making such a vile, blanket statement like this about ALL these women tells me a lot about Rashad. Reminds me of what some people have said about the Holocaust and the Jewish people

...F@ck em, just forget it no one cares about these pieces of sh@t people and who cares if they could have POSSIBLY been brutally attacked and permanently damaged their whole Life by this one guy

Just "Forget these Women" !

And Iam not convinced that there are NOT some women who are fabricating some of this stuff to profit from it. Matter of fact I think there is a chance that there could be some dishonest gold diggers among these women now that Allred is a part of it

But to say ignorant things like this is inexcusable. Her image will likely be tarnished after this.

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Claude Whitacre

9 years ago

Originally Posted by discrat

"Forget these women,"
.

I searched for "Forget these women" and all I got was this post. What am I missing here?

I agree that it would be an insensitive thing to say. But I can't find it here.

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discrat

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

I searched for "Forget these women" and all I got was this post. What am I missing here?

I agree that it would be an insensitive thing to say. But I can't find it here.

Bill Cosby: Phylicia Rashad Defends Comedian Against Rape Allegations : People.com

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Claude Whitacre

9 years ago

Originally Posted by discrat

Bill Cosby: Phylicia Rashad Defends Comedian Against Rape Allegations : People.com

Robert; Thanks, I thought it was on this thread.

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Kay King

9 years ago

I don't think the statement is that important myself. This is someone who worked closely with Cosby for many years and when she stood up for him she was asked "what about this woman and this one and..." and that was her response. Poor choice of words - definitely.

But then other words don't sound too good either - Beverly Johnson was a super model a long time ago. Now she's making the speaking rounds...

Because of her revelation, the former supermodel says that her life has forever been changed.

"It's been a whirlwind month," she told The Hollywood Reporter at the Palm Springs International Film Festival. "I knew what to expect by coming here, and I was good with it..."

My distaste for the story is based on the hearsay and public statements without any facts - lawsuits - police reports - medical tests. Reports are many don't have exact dates...in other words they are so vague they can't be refuted with facts if there are facts to refute them.

People even in this thread have referred to him as a "serial rapist" - but most of these women are not claiming rape. The ones that are saying they were raped also say they had a "relationship" with Cosby but that one time it was rape. Those things raise my BS radar.

The media does what it does - and we all form our own beliefs based on what we know - what we don't know - and our own opinions about human behavior.

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TimPhelan 9 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

My distaste for the story is based on the hearsay and public statements without any facts - lawsuits - police reports - medical tests.

Hearsay is different from an alleged victim's story. As I pointed out before, a victim's testimony can be used as evidence in court and can get someone convicted on that testimony alone. Hearsay can't be used as evidence in court.

People even in this thread have referred to him as a "serial rapist" - but most of these women are not claiming rape.

Perhaps not most, but there's several who claim rape.

The ones that are saying they were raped also say they had a "relationship" with Cosby but that one time it was rape.

Not all who claim rape had a relationship with him, so that's not true. In fact, I think those who had a relationship and are claiming rape are in the minority.
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positivenegative 9 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

I guess I did - so sorry to bother you so much you had to reply. Just saw some more headlines about it and thought it interesting. I'll toddle off now...

Nothing personal Kay. Just fed up of hearing about the damn guy. Also think the thread is way past it's sell-by date . . unless any major developments take place.

Originally Posted by Cali16

And you started a thread just four days ago on constipated goldfish... Um, okay; that's hardly what most would consider "more important stuff".

I never said it was, and neither are most threads in the OTF, but that's why it's called the OTF. As I said above, I just think the Cosby thing has been overdone (500 posts), and particularly in view of the fact there's been no major new developments.

Shame you've got nothing better to do than delve into someone's post history just to chip in with a bit of bitching.
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discrat

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

Never mind they know Cosby well - worked closely with him for years....and Allred probably never met him....

This whole story is taking on a bit a circus atmosphere - and not in a fun way.

Yeah just like many cohorts and fellow Lawyers in his Firm back in the early 70s thought Theodore Bundy was a very charming, congenial, and ambitious young Attorney and Friend

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Electrical

9 years ago

"In addition to numerous allegations, the star is being sued by a woman alleging he assaulted her at the Playboy Mansion in 1975 when she was 15. His lawyer, Marty Singer, has denied the claims and questioned the accusers' credibility."

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TLTheLiberator

9 years ago

Someone is backtracking and/or claims to have been misquoted...

Cosby's TV Wife: I Was Misquoted, I Meant 'This Is Not About The Women'

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seasoned 9 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

Someone is backtracking and/or claims to have been misquoted...

Cosby's TV Wife: I Was Misquoted, I Meant 'This Is Not About The Women'

The IRONIC thing is that she may have said what she says she did, but it means the *******SAME******* thing!

1. FORGET ABOUT THE WOMEN->FORGET ABOUT THE WOMEN!
2. This is NOT about the women, This is about something else. This is about the obliteration of legacy. ->FORGET ABOUT THE WOMEN! COSBY'S "LEGACY"(and thereby all of our work like the cosby show) is MORE IMPORTANT!

So they BOTH mean the same thing, the second one merely states a greedy, self serving, "elitist", reason.

Steve
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- Claude Whitacre 9 years ago
  
  Bill Cosby just had his Plenty Of Fish account deleted. Discrimination?
  
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  TimPhelan 9 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre
  
  Bill Cosby just had his Plenty Of Fish account deleted. Discrimination?
  
  Better, Claude.
  
  Yes, it's rapist discrimination.
  
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  heavysm 9 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre
  
  Bill Cosby just had his Plenty Of Fish account deleted. Discrimination?
  
  That made me laugh a little too hard
  
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onSubie

9 years ago

He joked about it in London, ON

...a woman who got up from one of the front rows and walked past the stage was asked by Cosby where she was going.

When she answered that she was going to the lobby to grab a drink, Cosby responded: "You have to be careful about drinking around me"

A heckler also called out that he was a rapist and was escorted out by security. No hecklers at the first show.

Bill Cosby called a rapist by heckler at London, Ont., show - Canada - CBC News

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TimPhelan

9 years ago

Alan Ladd's wife is the latest to accuse Cosby of drugging and raping her. Very compelling and believable story, as are most of the others.

Cosby: 'Trust Me.'*|*Cindra Ladd

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thunderbird

9 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

Alan Ladd's wife is the latest to accuse Cosby of drugging and raping her. Very compelling and believable story, as are most of the others.

Cosby: 'Trust Me.'*|*Cindra Ladd

At this point, someone really has to wade deeply into Alice-in-Wonderland-style denial territory to still dismiss it. Clearly, masses of people refuse to see it.

Twilight Zone

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Kay King

9 years ago

For more than 45 years I have tried to recall exactly what happened that night. To this day it remains a blur.

How many woman (or men) have said that after a night of drinking and partying?

She's right about one thing - "date rape" did NOT exist as an "issue" back then. If you were raped...it was "rape". If you were on a date, got carried away or drunk....you didn't call it "rape". Not saying that was right - but that's how it WAS.

People here are referring over and over to "serial rapist" - yet most of the women accusing Cosby are not claiming they were raped. Others said "they thought they were raped" but were having an affair with him at the time.

I don't doubt some things happened. My view is - if you said nothing for 30-45 years....too late now. You have no proof and there is no way Cosby can defend himself against 40 yr old charges. The "body" count now is at least 30 women and some are probably truthful.

But none of them have any proof - none of them went straight to a hospital or to police or had blood tested for drugs or a rape kit done.

They may be telling the truth - but they are telling it too late to be believed in my mind. Others choose to believe it's all true and that's fine. To each his own opinion.

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seasoned

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

I don't doubt some things happened. My view is - if you said nothing for 30-45 years....too late now. You have no proof and there is no way Cosby can defend himself against 40 yr old charges. The "body" count now is at least 30 women and some are probably truthful.

But none of them have any proof - none of them went straight to a hospital or to police or had blood tested for drugs or a rape kit done.

They may be telling the truth - but they are telling it too late to be believed in my mind. Others choose to believe it's all true and that's fine. To each his own opinion.

Yeah, it is hard to tell. I mean if he says anything, it will likely just make it worse. NORMALLY, that would lead one tobe gentle with analyzing such things. JOKING about it, as he has, just makes things worse though.

Steve

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TimPhelan 9 years ago

Mrs Ladd's story is very clear that she is convinced she was drugged and taken advantage of ( date rape ) by Cosby. A person knows the difference between a night out partying so much that you black out and being given a capsule that makes you feel like you are floating, passing out and waking up naked in bed.

Sure, it's probably too late to prosecute him but the real reason why these women come forward, as mrs Ladd said, wsd because it's the right thing to do. At this point, blaiming the victims for not getting drug tested or going to the police is pointless. The fact is many very credible women with believable stories are coming forward. Several, perhaps in double figures claim rape. That would make him a serial rapist. Sad to say, as I have been a huge lifelong fan of Cosby, but I would have say the description of him as a serial rapist seems pretty accurate.
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sbucciarel

Banned 9 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

How many woman (or men) have said that after a night of drinking and partying?

She's right about one thing - "date rape" did NOT exist as an "issue" back then. If you were raped...it was "rape". If you were on a date, got carried away or drunk....you didn't call it "rape". Not saying that was right - but that's how it WAS.

Oh, except it wasn't a night of drinking and partying. It was a night of being drugged and having passed out sex without her consent or knowledge. She doesn't need or want any money and never got any money from him. She thought they were friends. Date rape did most certainly exist back then except that, like these women, it wouldn't do any good to report it because some people including those in law enforcement will just call it a casual night of drinking and partying and sex.

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gettingricherdaily

9 years ago

what next Tim...will you be putting in a claim? Why are you so convinced he's a rapist?

Alan Ladd's wife is the latest to accuse Cosby of drugging and raping her. Very compelling and believable story, as are most of the others.

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TimPhelan

9 years ago

Originally Posted by gettingricherdaily

Why are you so convinced he's a rapist?

For the same reasons as most people who can look at this objectively. I believe the women. Why do you not believe them?

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WD Mino

9 years ago

It's not what you know. It is what you can prove..
I think this is rather ridiculous, actually.
Consider this.....

A man rapes a woman. He is fingered and arrested. But because like some say there was no immediate evidence. The court tosses it out. Why? She is obviously emotionally distraught over it. This guy obviously was pointed out, but because there has to be a burden of proof met, if it is not shown. it is dismissed.

So by people coming out in the media, the guilty by public opinion angle doesn't mean anything. reverse it. how would you like it?

let's think about something here. The man was one of the most famous people in the world. don't ya think that one of the 30 or something women would have stood up purely for the purpose of exposing him, especially if it was about destroying credibility? Obviously.

If they in fact were raped, drugged whatever, why wait 30 something years, when there is no possible way either party can fulfill the burden of proof. Seriously.... Anyone can say anything and the fact he has been accused... not found guilty but, people like always become a lynch mob.

The man obviously has issues and is not integral as purported, but, it is not for anyone to decide if he is guilty or innocent because of accusations. There must be proof beyond a reasonable doubt. not one of you would relish being condemned by the public. So what exactly is the point?

Tim? you mention it is not hearsay. it is not corroborated either. Therefore, it is not evidence. It is a she said/ he said. it is very unfortunate because I believe something did happen to these women but what we think and what is proven are 2 different things and that is what I am saying. It only matters what can be proven. You Americans talk about Liberty and Justice for all. Sure seems like it.

Even when he came to Canada there were a little group of people that were downright ignorant. NO ONE has the right to condemn another human being with no proof. " I can't remember anything but I woke up nude" The man she also said was someone she esteemed , looked up to, how do you know she didn't get a little loose when she was intoxicated? I know plenty of people who are very integral sober yet when they drink they become horny dorks.

Sorry, if you can't prove it, it has no business being in public sight. The law is in place for a reason. I highly doubt all of these people experienced this, you know some people say things because they want attention. maybe he made someone mad... you DON'T know..

-WD

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sbucciarel

Banned 9 years ago

Originally Posted by WD Mino

It's not what you know. It is what you can prove..
I think this is rather ridiculous, actually.
Consider this.....

A man rapes a woman. He is fingered and arrested. But because like some say there was no immediate evidence. The court tosses it out. Why? She is obviously emotionally distraught over it. This guy obviously was pointed out, but because there has to be a burden of proof met, if it is not shown. it is dismissed.

-WD

Except that this went to court a long time ago with the original victim bringing a civil suit and 14 other victims prepared to be witnesses that the same thing or similar happened to them. So, instead of defending the charges, Cosby hushes that all up by settling the case out of court.

Then there's his agreement with a magazine:

Bill Cosby testified under oath in 2005 that he gave the National Enquirer an exclusive interview about looming sexual-assault accusations by a Canadian woman against him in exchange for the tabloid spiking a second accuser’s story.

Excerpts released Wednesday of Cosby’s deposition from a civil lawsuit filed by Andrea Constand quote Cosby as saying he feared the public would believe her sexual-assault accusations if the Enquirer published similar claims by Beth Ferrier. Both women accused Cosby of drugging and molesting them.

“Did you ever think that if Beth Ferrier’s story was printed in the National Enquirer, that that would make the public believe that maybe Andrea was also telling the truth?” Cosby was asked.

“Exactly,” Cosby replied, according to court motions initially filed under seal and made available from archived federal court records.

Cosby, in the deposition, said he had a contract with the Enquirer.

“I would give them an exclusive story, my words,” Cosby said in the Sept. 29, 2005, deposition. In return, “they would not print the story of — print Beth’s story.”

And that pattern isn't new for him. He threw his own daughter under the bus to get a story about him killed.

Bill Cosby testified under oath in 2005 that he gave the National Enquirer an exclusive interview about looming sexual-assault accusations by a Canadian woman against him in exchange for the tabloid spiking a second accuser’s story.

Excerpts released Wednesday of Cosby’s deposition from a civil lawsuit filed by Andrea Constand quote Cosby as saying he feared the public would believe her sexual-assault accusations if the Enquirer published similar claims by Beth Ferrier. Both women accused Cosby of drugging and molesting them.

“Did you ever think that if Beth Ferrier’s story was printed in the National Enquirer, that that would make the public believe that maybe Andrea was also telling the truth?” Cosby was asked.

“Exactly,” Cosby replied, according to court motions initially filed under seal and made available from archived federal court records.

Cosby, in the deposition, said he had a contract with the Enquirer.

“I would give them an exclusive story, my words,” Cosby said in the Sept. 29, 2005, deposition. In return, “they would not print the story of — print Beth’s story.”

Unfortunately, rape is a crime that is very often under-reported due the victim blaming and shaming that goes on in the judicial process. The rape victim becomes a victim of a smear campaign by the defense and often is not even believed when there is evidence available.

They are blamed for wearing clothes that are "too sexy" as if clothing justifies the rape.It is insinuated in the case of date rape that the victim is lying or trying to get revenge for something. When rape has occurred when the victim was far too drunk to give consent, that's her fault too, even though a crime is still a crime if a man is drunk. A rape after a party is considered "too much partying and drinking" rather than the crime that it is.

If a man walks down the street and is mugged, he doesn't normally face the same victimization in court. No one says, you invited the mugging because of how you are dressed or you deserve to be robbed because you wore a rolodex watch.

But that happens to women routinely in the court system. They pretty much have to have the holy shit kicked out of them before anyone believes a violent crime occurred.

Drugging and having sex with no consent is a crime. A couple dozen women coming forward and telling their stories speaks volumes about this man to me, even when discounting a few of them as not true.

This will be Bill Cosby's legacy. He is no Cliff Huxtable.

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WD Mino

9 years ago

O.k. Suzanne, I am not going to dispute it. The man is not found guilty. hushed or whatever. the man is not proven guilty in a court of law.
that for me is enough. It only matters what can be proved. Other people coming forward, whatever, the burden of proof must be realized. that is what I am saying. No opinion matters, because it is in the media, he is guilty, whether he is or isn't none of us know.

-WD

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Kay King 9 years ago

I don't understand why people get so intense over a story like this one. Who cares? I don't know him or his supposed victims. I don't care what happened to some starlet person 40 years ago - I'm not impressed by a "former model" who is apparently on a speaking tour about this subject now.

When it comes down to it - I don't know anything about Cosby's real persona...and neither does anyone else here. It's an interesting sign of the times to me that these claims have surfaced before and not many took them seriously - the SAME claims surface years later and all of a sudden it's a big scandal. "Changes in attitude...." as the song goes.

You can say "they went to court" but he wasn't charged or found guilty - there was a settlement of some sort but it was private. Settlements are usually not allowed when there is proof of criminal activity...so...

It's an interesting story - but not something I would take personally or worry about once I leave this thread.
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- discrat 9 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Kay King
  
  I don't understand why people get so intense over a story like this one.
  
  Thanks for giving me a chuckle today, Kay.
  You know , the Pot- kettle thing
  
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TimPhelan

9 years ago

"Tim? you mention it is not hearsay. it is not corroborated either. Therefore, it is not evidence."

Not true. As I said earlier, someone can, and have been, convicted of crimes, including rape, solely on a victim's testimony which is considered as evidence.

Also, we don't really know of there is or isn't any collaborative evidence. I bet there is.

However, the truth is, in this particular case public opinion does matter. Enough "evidence" has been presented to persuade companies, schools and other organizations to sever ties with Cosby. This is no small matter, as some of the schools received tens of millions from him and NBC made tens of millions, at least, from his shows. He's already been judged and rightfully so IMO.

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Kay King

9 years ago

Not true. As I said earlier, someone can, and have been, convicted of crimes, including rape, solely on a victim's testimony which is considered as evidence.

Yes, it has happened. It has NOT HAPPENED in this case. He has not been found guilty, or charged or taken to court. The only evidence presented by any of these women has been a story told after the fact - many of them DECADES after the fact.

He's guilty in the court of public opinion and that has destroyed his reputation and he's too old to build it back.

Early on I wondered if we would get to 2 dozen women - it's at 30 now. I expect the number will keep rising and I doubt a single one of them filed a complaint or even told anyone about this "big deal" until now. People will do a lot for attention - especially those whose time in the media spotlight passed years ago.

I'll admit I think less of Cosby than I did before this started - but that's nothing compared to the distaste I have for most of the accusers.

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TimPhelan 9 years ago

"He's guilty in the court of public opinion and that has destroyed his reputation"

It deserved to be destroyed. He's lucky he's not in prison.
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- Kay King 9 years ago
  
  I don't know these people - I wasn't there - I don't know what happened - but that's just me.
  
  Some of the stories are really "out there".
  
  Woman claims assault in 1974 - but can get the money she's suing for only if the court agrees she "discovered" she had psychological injuries caused by the abuse within the last three years.
  
  At least one of the suits is for "defamation" by 2 women who say Cosby call them "liars" when the made accusations. So they are suing him for saying they lied about a story they can't prove. One of the "stories" is "I was 'groped' in 1970". Really? 45 years ago someone grabbed your butt and it's news now?
  
  There's a lot of piling on here and it won't stop any time soon.
  
  Will be interesting to see if the lawsuits ever go to court...but it's sounding like old news now.
  
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sbucciarel

Banned 9 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

He's guilty in the court of public opinion and that has destroyed his reputation and he's too old to build it back.

I expect the number will keep rising and I doubt a single one of them filed a complaint or even told anyone about this "big deal" until now. People will do a lot for attention - especially those whose time in the media spotlight passed years ago.

The court of public opinion is the only remedy available at this point. He'll get the legacy he deserves. The media didn't destroy Cosby's reputation. Cosby did.

Some of the victims most certainly have published their stories long before this and some tried, only to have Cosby reach a deal with the publication. I'm glad that the credible cases have finally found an audience that will listen. There's far too many of them for this to be some conspiracy against Cosby to destroy a nice old man's reputation.

You can discredit 24, or 30 or 50 or 100 women's stories if you like. It's fairly obvious that many feel there is truth in the stories, including the universities and networks and entertainment organizations that he was involved with. He's got a few supporters left, but not many.

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Claude Whitacre

9 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

You can discredit 24, or 30 or 50 or 100 women's stories if you like. It's fairly obvious that many feel there is truth in the stories,.

Feelings aren't proof.

Many feel that he is guilty. Some feel that he is innocent. But these are feelings. A very very small handful of people know his guilt or innocence.

And none of them are here.

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TimPhelan

9 years ago

"A very very small handful of people know his guilt or innocence."

Seems like that very very small handful is actually in the dozens.

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Claude Whitacre

9 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

"A very very small handful of people know his guilt or innocence."

Seems like that very very small handful is actually in the dozens.

I mean relative to the number of people that have an opinion. Dozens VS millions.

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TimPhelan

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

I mean relative to the number of people that have an opinion. Dozens VS millions.

Yes. Of course.

We are all here stating our opinions. Suzanne and I feel the women's stories are believable. Yes, those are just feelings and this isn't a court of law, but if it was a court of law those "feelings" are what a jury uses to convict or not convict someone. In the court of public opinion feelings also matter.

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Kay King

9 years ago

those "feelings" are what a jury uses to convict or not convict someone

I certainly would not want that sort of jury - the instructions from judges emphasize "reasonable doubt" and "proof"...not "what you feel". A jury that convicts or not based on "feelings" is a poor substitute for justice in my opinion.

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TimPhelan

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

I certainly would not want that sort of jury - the instructions from judges emphasize "reasonable doubt" and "proof"...not "what you feel". A jury that convicts or not based on "feelings" is a poor substitute for justice in my opinion.

Really? Proof or evidence is presented to a jury. It's up to each individual of that jury to decide whether they "feel" the evidence is enough to convict. Claude tried to minimize the use of "feel" by Suzanne by saying these were just feelings. I think that was a mistake because feel can have different meanings including to think, to believe or to have an opinion, all things I would want a jury to do. To feel someone is guilty or not doesn't mean you are being emotional. That's an incorrect assumption.

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Claude Whitacre

9 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

Really? Proof or evidence is presented to a jury. It's up to each individual of that jury to decide whether they "feel" the evidence is enough to convict. Claude tried to minimize the use of "feel" by Suzanne by saying these were just feelings. I think that was a mistake because feel can have different meanings including to think, to believe or to have an opinion, all things I would want a jury to do.

You wouldn't want the jury to " feel, believe, or have an opinion" if you were innocent, and people believed you were guilty.

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TimPhelan

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

You wouldn't want the jury to 'think, feel, believe, or have an opinion" if you were innocent, and people believed you were guilty.

I wouldn't want people to think? You're not making sense Claude. What else would I want them to do?

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Claude Whitacre

9 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

I wouldn't want people to think? You're not making sense Claude. What else would I want them to do?

Sorry, I shouldn't have included the word "Think". My mistake.

I fixed it.

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TimPhelan

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

Sorry, I shouldn't have included the word "Think". My mistake.

I fixed it.

To feel and to think are synonymous, or can be. Juries are people who make a decision based on evidence. You probably have heard a juror say something like " I looked at the evidence and felt he was guilty". That doesn't mean they were emotional or biased.

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Claude Whitacre

9 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

To feel and to think are synonymous, or can be. Juries are people who make a decision based on evidence. You probably have heard a juror say something like " I looked at the evidence and felt he was guilty". That doesn't mean they were emotional or biased.

Man, I wish you could see this with my eyes.

There is a technique where a strong electro magnet is placed at the temporal lobes of the brain. It deadens the emotion centers, and essentially makes you a non-violent psychopath.

The effect only lasts for 15 minutes or so.

If you did it, you would say "I get it. I know what Claude is talking about".....

But alas.

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Kay King

9 years ago

I was never raped

Maybe that's where the pot/kettle thing comes into play.

I was raped - and I find most of these stories of "I don't know what happened" ludicrous and unbelievable. The idea that someone "groping" you when you've been drinking is the same as the violence of a forcible rape makes no sense to me.

One of the changes is in interpretation (legally) of "rape" that came about in 2012 or so. The legal definition of the term did change and perhaps that was to fit better with public opinion as it evolved.

FBI — UCR Program Changes Definition of Rape

I think it should be by degrees as murder is - rather than simply expanding the definition of rape to include other, less violent acts.

So - there's my bias. I'll take my pot and kettle and go home now - because honestly I don't CARE what happens to Cosby or to a single one of those women.

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sbucciarel

Banned 9 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

Maybe that's where the pot/kettle thing comes into play.

I was raped - and I find most of these stories of "I don't know what happened" ludicrous and unbelievable. The idea that someone "groping" you when you've been drinking is the same as the violence of a forcible rape makes no sense to me.

Sorry to hear that happened and I can see how you can compare what happened to you with other people's experiences, but perhaps you've never been drugged. I don't know, but that's where the "I don't know what happened" comes from. The common thread in all of the stories is that they were drugged prior to the assault.

You may have been the victim of an outright, violent rape. These women were not. They were drugged and sexually assaulted in a drugged state, some a passed out state.

Having a history of drug abuse, I can assure you that "I don't know what happened" is very real. The woman who was "groped" was assaulted. If that weren't the case, it would be legal to just come up to any woman and cop a feel whenever you felt like it. It's illegal ...sure the degree is less than those that he had sex with or attempted to have sex with, but it's still a crime and hers is one of the stories that I give less weight to, simply because the crime is less severe.

Drugging someone is a crime in and of itself, even if you don't do anything else. The ones who took the drugs recreationally are far fewer than the ones that were offered the drug for a headache or given the drug in a drink, but either way, rape is not legal even when the victim is drinking or using drugs voluntarily.

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WD Mino

9 years ago

You see Tim saying his reputation deserves to be destroyed. What would you do if you found out this was a scheme out of spite?
Just think about that....

I will tell you a story.

When I was about 16 or 17 not recalling exactly, I did a carpet cleaning job with my Dad. At a restaurant called Isabel's ribs.

Isabel's ribs got robbed. My fingerprints were found at the scene. They found them on a liquor bottle.

o.k So I was arrested in kelowna about 4 and a half hours away from the scene in Victoria.

they arrested me and sent me , incarcerated back to Victoria to face charges.

I had to wait until I had my day in court. then it was easily proven I was not the culprit.
How do you think that would play out in the public. This is why I don't buy stories I buy facts.

You don't know if these things are even true. I don't know what happened but either do any of us. Going after a man who we know nothing about, people who worked with him say no way., I mean we don't know, it is so simple. innocent until PROVEN guilty.
End of story.
-WD

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sbucciarel

Banned 9 years ago

Originally Posted by WD Mino

You see Tim saying his reputation deserves to be destroyed. What would you do if you found out this was a scheme out of spite?
Just think about that....

I will tell you a story.
....
End of story.
-WD

Well, if your fingerprints were found in 30 stores that had all been robbed, it might be similar, but it really isn't.

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TimPhelan

9 years ago

LOS ANGELES--Responding to recent allegations that his client sexually assaulted as many as 20 women over the course of his career, an attorney for comedian Bill Cosby asked Wednesday why none of the alleged victims came forward and allowed themselves to be smeared by the entertainer's powerful attorneys years ago. "One has to wonder why all these claims are being made now, when these women very easily could have spoken up 40 years ago and had my client's legal team ruin them," said Cosby lawyer Martin Singer, suggesting that if the assertions were indeed true, the purported victims have had more than ample time to let Cosby's team of high-priced legal advisors assassinate their character and threaten them with countersuits for defamation. "It's highly suspect that these women didn't go public decades ago, when Mr. Cosby could have used his considerable influence to sabotage any chance these women had at a career in show business and obliterate their credibility in media outlets that were utterly smitten with him."

cosby-lawyer-asks-why-accusers-didnt-come-forward

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TimPhelan

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

Man, I wish you could see this with my eyes.

There is a technique where a strong electro magnet is placed at the temporal lobes of the brain. It deadens the emotion centers, and essentially makes you a non-violent psychopath.

The effect only lasts for 15 minutes or so.

If you did it, you would say "I get it. I know what Claude is talking about".....

But alas.

So, you want me to get some sort of lobotomy and become an unemotional psychopath to see what exactly?

I'm not sure why you think Suzanne and I are letting emotion cloud our thinking. She explained her view why that isn't the case with her and I can assure I am not emotional either in regards to my thinking about this situation. In fact, if I really let emotion and bias cloud my thinking I would not believe these women because I have been such a huge fan of Cosby's for about 45 years at least. For me, it all comes down to whether I find these women believable and I do. No emotion really.

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Claude Whitacre

9 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

So, you want me to get some sort of lobotomy and become an unemotional psychopath to see what exactly?

I'm not sure why you think Suzanne and I are letting emotion cloud our thinking. She explained her view why that isn't the case with her and I can assure I am not emotional either in regards to my thinking about this situation. In fact, if I really let emotion and bias cloud my thinking I would not believe these women because I have been such a huge fan of Cosby's for about 45 years at least. For me, it all comes down to whether I find these women believable and I do. No emotion really.

Not lobotomized. Just separating your emotional centers from your cognitive centers. I don't want you to do it really. I'm just saying, if you did, my thinking would become obvious to you.

What you perceive as "not emotion" is vastly different from really not having an emotional influence. You can't see it, in the same way I can't appreciate music the way you can.

I read an account of the experiment in the book The Wisdom Of Psychopaths. The way the subject described his experience, is the way I think all the time. Limiting in a few ways, liberating in others.

Emotion directs everyone's thinking. It's why opinions differ. It's why we defend positions, instead of just learning.

Anyway, I'm just typing about this to avoid working.

The Wisdom of Psychopaths: What Saints, Spies,...

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thunderbird

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

<snip>

I read an account of the experiment in the book The Wisdom Of Psychopaths. The way the subject described his experience, is the way I think all the time.<snip>[/url]

This is a bit of a recurring theme for you here. In another post, you described yourself as a high-functioning psychopath. I don't really know you, but I imagine "psychopath" would be the wrong term for you, unless you're antisocial, are devoid of empathy for others, and feel no remorse over mistreating others, if not downright criminal. Could you be confusing psychopathy with Aspergers? Asperger's Disorder vs. Psychopathy

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Claude Whitacre

9 years ago

Originally Posted by thunderbird

This is a bit of a recurring theme for you here. In another post, you described yourself as a high-functioning psychopath. I don't really know you, but I imagine "psychopath" would be the wrong term for you, unless you're antisocial, are devoid of empathy for others, and feel no remorse over mistreating others, if not downright criminal. Could you be confusing psychopathy with Aspergers? Asperger's Disorder vs. Psychopathy

No. No confusion. Psychopath is the right term. I don't mistreat others. I'm not violent. But I have no empathy, and there are other symptoms. None of them are attractive to normals. I'm not anti-social. But I'm non-social. I'm social only as a means to an end, or because it's interesting. Like discussing this. In many ways, it's the opposite of Asberger's Syndrome.

Read The Psychopath Within. You'll get a better understanding of what it is.

http://www.amazon.com/Psychopath-Inside-Neuroscien...

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Daniel Evans 9 years ago

The fact that you think he's going to even contemplate reading that book is conclusive evidence in itself that you are indeed a psychopath.....
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TimPhelan

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

No. No confusion. Psychopath is the right term. I don't mistreat others. I'm not violent. But I have no empathy, and there are other symptoms. None of them are attractive to normals. I'm not anti-social. But I'm non-social. I'm social only as a means to an end, or because it's interesting. Like discussing this. In many ways, it's the opposite of Asberger's Syndrome.

Read The Psychopath Within. You'll get a better understanding of what it is.

http://www.amazon.com/Psychopath-Ins...chopath+within

Sounds fascinating Claude, although I have seen you mention your disorder before. However, I don't see the revelence to Mr Cosby. It seems you bring up this issue whenever you disagree with someone.

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Claude Whitacre

9 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

Sounds fascinating Claude, although I have seen you mention your disorder before. However, I don't see the revelence to Mr Cosby. It seems you bring up this issue whenever you disagree with someone.

No. You missed it completely. It has nothing to do with Cosby. (added later) It has nothing to do with whether I agree with you or not.

I make the mistake of mentioning how others respond to this emotionally charged subject.

Normal people don't see rape in an emotionless void. I was commenting on the thought process, that the people on this thread have, when commenting on this emotional issue. Normal people cannot even say the word "Rape" without triggering an emotional response.. It's my only interest. I wasn't agreeing or disagreeing with you. I was making observations on the thought processes I see.

How people (meaning the posters here) process information fascinates me. It's what I study. But it is always...always an intellectual dead end, when being discussed.

I can't feel what you feel, and you can't see what I see.

This has nothing to do with the subject of the Thread. Again, it's a dead end. Why don't we drop it?

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TimPhelan

9 years ago

OK Claude. Let me just say I paid attention to what the women said and believe them. I don't think much emotion went into believing them and thinking they are very credible. Also, the number of women and who they were had a lot to do with me believing them. Now, after I came to that conclusion, which wasn't done quickly, I have some emotional response to Cosby because I think rape is a bad thing.

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sbucciarel

Banned 9 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

Now, after I came to that conclusion, which wasn't done quickly, I have some emotional response to Cosby because I think rape is a bad thing.

That, and people look at facts and arguments and compile them and make decisions based on those all the time without having to have the dubious benefit of being a "high functioning psychopath." Some are academics, some are researchers, some are judges, and some are just ordinary human beings who can look at a set of circumstances and they're able to form an opinion without emotion attached to it. Many people who have no particular brain disorders are capable of absorbing important information and using that to form a decision or opinion of your own--rather than just spouting off what you hear others say.

The excerpts explain what those recommended readings are about and while somewhat interesting, unless you've had a brain scan and a diagnosis from a licensed professional, it would be a self-diagnosis and doesn't serve to suggest that ordinary human beings without any particular disorders can't make rational, unemotional decisions or unemotional opinions based on known facts about any topic.

What would be an "emotional" decision for me would be something like having to decide whether or not to pull the plug on a family member because they would likely not recover from a devastating injury or illness. I could evaluate the facts, but simply would not be able to separate emotion from the situation, even though I would still probably base the decision on cold, hard facts.

Rape isn't a topic that stirs up emotion in me any more than murder, government spying on it's own citizens, and all manner of bad behavior, but not being neither a high or low functioning psychopath, I am able to feel empathy towards victims of crime, even though I have not been a victim myself.

This constant assertion that our opinions are based on or colored by emotion and someone else's is based on objective reasoning or that they are just here for the popcorn and beer and don't care either way is just an attempt to discredit opinions of others, rather than engage in a useful and interesting debate.

Put quite simply, if Cosby were some nobody punk and those women's aspirations to fame and stardom would not have been in jeopardy had they reported these crimes when they happened, Cosby would have spent a great deal of time behind bars.

The Wisdom of Psychopaths: Dutton argues that there are indeed "functional psychopaths" among us--different from their murderous counterparts--who use their detached, unflinching, and charismatic personalities to succeed in mainstream society, and that shockingly, in some fields, the more "psychopathic" people are, the more likely they are to succeed.

The Psychopath Inside: While researching serial killers, he uncovered a pattern in their brain scans that helped explain their cold and violent behavior. Astonishingly, his own scan matched that pattern. And a few months later he learned that he was descended from a long line of murderers. Fallon set out to reconcile the truth about his own brain with everything he knew as a scientist about the mind, behavior, and personality.

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thunderbird

9 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

<snip>
The excerpts explain what those recommended readings are about and while somewhat interesting, unless you've had a brain scan and a diagnosis from a licensed professional, it would be a self-diagnosis and doesn't serve to suggest that ordinary human beings without any particular disorders can't make rational, unemotional decisions or unemotional opinions based on known facts about any topic.<snip>

Claude have you actually undergone brain scans to officially verify this? This thread has taken a surprisingly (if perhaps unintentionally) hilarious turn, especially, "to suggest that ordinary human beings without any particular disorders can't make rational, unemotional decisions..." I'm not neurotypical myself, on the autism spectrum, but never thought of applying that to a debate on an unrelated topic. I see a potential Monty Python style skit here.

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Claude Whitacre

9 years ago

Originally Posted by thunderbird

Claude have you actually undergone brain scans to officially verify this? .

Yes, I had two brain scans (because i suffered convulsions). Both times, I had to stay in the hospital for a couple of days, because they thought the scans showed something more serious.

Both doctors told me there was something missing in the temporal lobes. A second one suggested that I may be neurologically the same as a psychopath. He asked me questions that let him to believe it was true. And he asked me questions when I was getting the scan. My cerebral cortex would light up, when it should have been my temporal lobes.

I have a psychologist friend, I've known for years. I mentioned this to him in passing, and he got very serious, and pointed out several instances where he thought the same thing.

And I've had several friends and co-workers, that have told me similar things.

Several years ago, I began to study psychopathology, to see if I really was a psychopath. And if I was, what could I do about it.

What really triggered it, was my son exhibited the same kind of "emotional flat lining". His mother (My ex) took him to a psychiatrist (I think) and he was told the same thing.

Most psychopaths are completely unaware that they are this way. And they wouldn't care anyway. It doesn't bother me. I just find it interesting.

In other words, I didn't just decide to call myself a psychopath. And people almost always have one idea of what that is, and it's very negative. But there are lots of levels and degrees. I did the Psychopath Test. (with my psychologist friend)

Zero is normal...40 is a raving pure psychopath. I would score 22. I took the test twice.

I didn't see Suzanne's post.

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thunderbird

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

Yes, I had two brain scans (because i suffered convulsions).

Both doctors told me there was something missing in the temporal lobes. A second one suggested that I may be neurologically the same as a psychopath...<snip>

This is fascinating. Have you checked out your family tree as the author of the book you mentioned did? How strongly does this characteristic carry through generations?

I wonder what a brain scan of Bill Cosby would reveal.

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Claude Whitacre

9 years ago

Originally Posted by thunderbird

This is fascinating. Have you checked out your family tree as the author of the book you mentioned did? How strongly does this characteristic carry through generations?

I wonder what a brain scan of Bill Cosby would reveal.

No. That never interested me. I have no idea about my family history. I just found out ten years ago, that I was Welsh.

No idea about Cosby. But his behavior sounds more like a compulsion to me. But all of that is outside my knowledge.

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thunderbird

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

No. That never interested me. I have no idea about my family history. I just found out ten years ago, that I was Welsh.

No idea about Cosby. But his behavior sounds more like a compulsion to me. But all of that is outside my knowledge.

I've looked at my family tree quite a bit and some stuff and some of the stuff I find is eerily reminiscent of the idiosyncrasies of me and my relatives:
"My father was fascinated by insects, mainly beetles, and was always taking rare finds to his friend, Dr. Bernard Lewis, who was in charge of the Natural History Department of the Institute of Jamaica."

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TimPhelan 9 years ago

"I was commenting on the thought process, that the people on this thread have, when commenting on this emotional issue...

How people (meaning the posters here) process information fascinates me...

I can't feel what you feel, and you can't see what I see."

You can't feel what we feel, yet you think you know how we think. How we process information. I think this could be your imagination, Claude.

I do believe what you say about your condition though and understand it's been difficult dealing with it. I do find it interesting also.
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- Claude Whitacre 9 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by TimPhelan
  
  You can't feel what we feel, yet you think you know how we think. How we process information. I think this could be your imagination, Claude.
  
  Of course, I'm imagining it. How else would I understand it?
  
  But I have 60 years experience in learning how people think. I had to learn, just to blend in. And I've had nearly 40 years of very successful sales experience. Knowing how people think is my job.
  
  Added later; Your statement and question really deserves a better answer.
  I think in an emotional flat line. I know that language. I know what an emotional flat line sounds like. . But I'm around people that speak in a different way. Emotion and logic meld into thought. . So I can see the difference easily. Language and action that conveys emotion, sticks out to me. It's like it's being yelled at me.
  
  It's harder with just reading posts. I can't see expression, or hear the tone of voice. But the language is often obvious to me. Not always. But there are undercurrents of anger, frustration, indignation, exasperation.....that are obvious by the language used. I see them more easily than most, because I know what language looks like when there is no emotional drive behind it.
  
  And the emotional language comes out on an unconscious level. Most people are sincere when they say that they are being objective. But to me, their language screams otherwise.
  
  Knowing how people process information, comes less from any insight I have, and more from simply studying human behavior. I've also read dozens of books by brain pathologists, neurologists. It's less psychology, and more pathology.
  
  And over a long period of time, I've learned how to mimic normal reactions. The language used, and expressions come pretty easy now.
  
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Claude Whitacre

9 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

OK Claude. Let me just say I paid attention to what the women said and believe them. I don't think much emotion went into believing them and thinking they are very credible. Also, the number of women and who they were had a lot to do with me believing them. Now, after I came to that conclusion, which wasn't done quickly, I have some emotional response to Cosby because I think rape is a bad thing.

Tim; I believe you. And you explained it clearly.

All I can say is that I've lived around normal people for 60 years. It took decades to learn how to fit in. It took even longer to learn why they behaved they way they did. I've made it a serious study.

Have you lived in a world full of non-violent psychopaths for your whole life? Have you studied them, trying to pass yourself off as one of them? Try to imagine that. Now imagine trying to explain to them, why you enjoy dancing, or singing, watching fireworks, or going to a party.

Welcome to my world.

Can you describe what chocolate tastes like to someone with no taste buds? No. Not so they would understand. And that's my problem. Our brains are just wired differently.

A psychologist friend explained it to me like this, "It's like you can see in infra red. But you can't see color." No matter how much I try, I cannot describe what it's like, seeing in infra red. And try as you might, you can't get me to understand what color even is. (It's an analogy folks. It isn't meant literally)

Anyway, you were patient with me, and gave it a good shot. And for that, I thank you.

Thanks

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Claude Whitacre

9 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

Yes. Of course.

We are all here stating our opinions. Suzanne and I feel the women's stories are believable. Yes, those are just feelings and this isn't a court of law, but if it was a court of law those "feelings" are what a jury uses to convict or not convict someone. In the court of public opinion feelings also matter.

Tim; In the court of public opinion, it's always feelings that matter. Otherwise, it wouldn't be an opinion.

The fact that jurys can convict someone based on feelings, (and it happens often) is evidence (to me) of a biased system. But it's what we have to work with.

What interests me, isn't whether he is guilty or innocent.....but the way we process our thoughts about it. How our emotions and experience force our opinions in one direction or another.

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sbucciarel

Banned 9 years ago

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

Tim; In the court of public opinion, it's always feelings that matter. Otherwise, it wouldn't be an opinion.

The fact that jurys can convict someone based on feelings, (and it happens often) is evidence (to me) of a biased system. But it's what we have to work with.

What interests me, isn't whether he is guilty or innocent.....but the way we process our thoughts about it. How our emotions and experience force our opinions in one direction or another.

I don't have any emotions about it either way. I was never raped and never knew anyone who was. I have no personal experience with it. I don't know Bill Cosby and never watched him much. I had no opinion about him either way before all of this.

My opinions are formed by reading all the articles of the first civil suit (that he settled out of court), all of the planned witness testimony in that case, his attempts to kill articles even throwing them a bone including inside information involving his own daughter's drug abuse to kill one story, etc, etc, etc.

That, and while maybe 5 of the women's stories are suspect, most aren't IMO and there's just so many of them who had everything to lose by reporting it at the time and nothing to lose any longer by coming forward now.

Universities that he has donated millions to cut their association with him. His major network deals are gone. Are they all just a bunch of gossipy old biddies acting on their own personal feelings or do they feel that there is more than enough circumstantial evidence not to want to be associated with him any longer?

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TLTheLiberator

9 years ago

Wow! I wonder what most of the alleged victims have to gain by publicly proclaiming...

... "I was raped by Bill Cosby?"

Many, if not most had a whole lot to potentially lose if they went public at the time of the alleged incidents.

Maybe most feel they don't have to worry about any repercussions from the entertainment industry and Cosby himself - these days.

Most are 25-35 years older than when it happened and they can't possibly hope to have a career in entertainment etc. So what do they have to gain?

No one's going to by a book by any one of them just because they accused Cosby of rape etc.

Maybe they can combine their stories into one book? Maybe they can go pay per view or even sell their stories with a pay for internet video?

Is there a civil suit in the offering?

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daysofdigital

9 years ago

Did anyone see the video of him interviewing Sofia Vagara? Doesn't it look soooo creepy now ;p

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Is Bill Cosby a Serial Rapist ?

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