People don't like the police

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...until they need them.

  • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
    a few days ago, at the KFC drive through, a cop stopped a lady, and gave her a warning. It was obvious that the lady was being pulled over on the street, but decided to pull into the drive through instead. The cop was polite, and was doing his job. People in the KFC were yelling at him about "police corruption" and harassment.

    I was there buying chicken. Nice normal people...were turning into a mob. Nobody was defending the cop. I was studying the behavior. The cop didn't know it, but he wouldn't have been alone, if trouble started.
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    • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
      Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

      a few days ago, at the KFC drive through, a cop stopped a lady, and gave her a warning. It was obvious that the lady was being pulled over on the street, but decided to pull into the drive through instead. The cop was polite, and was doing his job. People in the KFC were yelling at him about "police corruption" and harassment.

      I was there buying chicken. Nice normal people...were turning into a mob. Nobody was defending the cop. I was studying the behavior. The cop didn't know it, but he wouldn't have been alone, if trouble started.
      You had your wife with you?
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      • Profile picture of the author Kay King
        I told him he had the wrong car when he pulled me over to ticket me for speeding.
        Here's what you don't do:

        What do you mean I was going 70 mph?
        There's more than one gray car, isn't there?
        You don't even know which car you pulled over?
        I don't know who you wanted to stop - but it wasn't me.

        You take the ticket - and you appear in court and argue your case. I did that once and the ticket was dismissed. Even the cop who gave the ticket admitted after the fact he may have been wrong (and it WAS a case of pulling over the wrong car in a speed trap situation.)
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        • Profile picture of the author seasoned
          Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

          Here's what you don't do:

          What do you mean I was going 70 mph?
          There's more than one gray car, isn't there?
          You don't even know which car you pulled over?
          I don't know who you wanted to stop - but it wasn't me.

          You take the ticket - and you appear in court and argue your case. I did that once and the ticket was dismissed. Even the cop who gave the ticket admitted after the fact he may have been wrong (and it WAS a case of pulling over the wrong car in a speed trap situation.)
          Yeah, one of the first rules in a traffic stop is DON'T make a ruckus. If you do, he or she may mark you, and will make sure to follow through to the N'th degree. Be nice, respectful, and if you are lucky, you will avoid a ticket and, if you get one, have an easy time getting it expunged.

          If you appear, and he or she doesn't, you generally WIN. You have a right to face your accuser.

          Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    This IS sobering! Yeah, a lot of police officers are bad, but it IS a DANGEROUS job and some risk their lives ONLY to help out! YEAH, they get paid, but in the late 80s I saw a hiring campaign for police for like $40K.

    As for being afraid? Only an IDIOT would do that stuff and NOT be afraid. BRAVERY is NOT doing something without fear. BRAVERY is doing something IN SPITE of fear!

    Claude,

    If I were there, you two wouldn't be alone EITHER! And running from a police officer and finding he was only going to give you a warning is ABSURD!

    Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Every 53 hours? Um........in 2013 there were 39 or so killed and several of those were killed in self defense. (No you do not have a right to break into a person's home and start shooting just because you have a badge. You have to make sure it's the right house, the right person you're pointing guns at, and you don't shoot family pets that aren't attacking anyone). That's not 53 hours - it's every 9 days or so.

    They, in turn killed people every 24 hours - many of whom were unarmed. They've also gone on a rash of killing family pets for no reason and the number of swat raids has become absolutely ridiculous.

    I'm not saying there aren't good cops. I'm just saying when so many are so dangerous, they are going to be facing anger. You can't militarize a police force and not have people start to distrust cops - especially when, just as in a war zone, a lot of innocent people are being shot, beaten, or tased. Militarization of police started with the drug laws, so it's just another repercussion of greedy industry turning our country into a third world dictatorship.

    If we want healthy cop/citizen relationships again - for one thing, the PTB need to stop making everything under the sun illegal. You can't J-walk in this country without having to think twice about being beaten by a local cop. As we fall further into tyranny, you're going to see more cops killed - but you are also going to see higher ratios of citizens killed per cop killed.

    That said - Out here in small town America where I live, the cops aren't all that frightening. I know most of them and have never had an encounter with them that they weren't polite and calm, and have only once seen them do what I would consider harassing someone needlessly - which they did non violently.
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    • Profile picture of the author discrat
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      I'm not saying there aren't good cops. I'm just saying when so many are so dangerous, they are going to be facing anger.
      If we want healthy cop/citizen relationships again - for one thing, the PTB need to stop making everything under the sun illegal. You can't J-walk in this country without having to think twice about being beaten by a local cop.

      .
      Oh please, talk about someone trying to drum up paranoia. I lived in down town Los Angeles ( i mean down downtown ...2007-2008 ) and now live in San Antonio, texas (6th sixth largest metropolis). I walk downtown and have drinks with buddies on the weekends all the time. I have no fear whatsoever, even when I have my two small kids running around on the streets .

      You abide by the Law, the Cop is your asset NOT someone to be scared of. Jeeesh

      Not sure what kind of World do you live in ? But being scared like you talk about is no way to live !

      You're too persuaded by TV and sensationalism that the media conjures up about good cops and bad cops.

      There are no more bad Cops than there are bad teachers, athletes, clergyman , sex therapists etc..
      And that includes Big City Cops as well.

      The fact is the majority of them are good people !

      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      That said - Out here in small town America where I live, the cops aren't all that frightening. I know most of them and have never had an encounter with them that they weren't polite and calm, and have only once seen them do what I would consider harassing someone needlessly - which they did non violently
      Now you are coming back down to reality
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      • Profile picture of the author HeySal
        Originally Posted by discrat View Post

        Oh please, talk about someone trying to drum up paranoia. I lived in down town Los Angeles ( i mean down downtown ...2007-2008 ) and now live in San Antonio, texas (6th sixth largest metropolis). I walk downtown and have drinks with buddies on the weekends all the time. I have no fear whatsoever, even when I have my two small kids running around on the streets .

        You abide by the Law, the Cop is your asset NOT someone to be scared of. Jeeesh

        Not sure what kind of World do you live in ? But being scared like you talk about is no way to live !

        You're too persuaded by TV and sensationalism that the media conjures up about good cops and bad cops.

        There are no more bad Cops than there are bad teachers, athletes, clergyman , sex therapists etc..
        And that includes Big City Cops as well.

        The fact is the majority of them are good people !



        Now you are coming back down to reality
        Reality is that I had a cop threaten to tase me once because I told him he had the wrong car when he pulled me over to ticket me for speeding. He put his hand on his taser, leaned toward my window and grinned - asked if we were going to have to settle a problem. It was the middle of the night, and I was alone. I had to eat a ticket for speeding in an area I hadn't even been driving. I also lived in an area that the cops were so corrupt that nobody ever called them to handle any problem. Now I live in an area that cops aren't a problem. It's not about paranoia, or where you live - it's about if you are in an area that police are dangerous. Period. If you think there aren't places that have a corrupted force, or that some cops are just psychopaths, all I can say is that you don't get out much.
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        Sal
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  • Profile picture of the author zxperts
    Laws are the issue. The police can only become as corrupt as they are allowed / encouraged to be by legislation and the enforcement of the legislation. We need to take our congressmen to task and hold them accountable for their corruption.

    Take, for instance, the fact that, with very little / no evidence against someone the police can get a warrant for a "no knock" raid. Many people are killed each year in no knock raids and some are even at the wrong address. Should we not force our legislators to defend the Constitution? How did we ever get to the place in America that government employees can storm into a private residence and shoot unarmed people with impunity? The Constitution protects us from such government actions, but legislators ignore it.
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    • Profile picture of the author Electrical
      I don't really understand the point. Yes, cops do a dangerous job. Yes, they usually do a good job of it and help keep us safe. NO, that does NOT in any way, shape, or form excuse cops abusing their power. As cops, they should be held to a higher standard. But unfortunately they usually aren't even held to the same standard as they hold citizens. They get away with too much, they are able to take citizens rights away too often. And the usual punishment is for the city (ie. the taxpayers) to pay damages.

      FWIW, I am not referencing the recent Ferguson or NYC cases. I'm talking about all the videos we can see daily on YouTube of cops arresting people for no other reason than they were recording them from a distance and the cops that clearly use excessive force such as kicking a suspect in the head after he is cuffed and not struggling.
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      • Profile picture of the author discrat
        I bet if you took a Poll of every single Policemen in US and asked them this Morning if when they got out of Bed did they have the desire and the intent of being evil and corrupt and wanting to shoot people later that day...I say about .0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 0001 % would reply with a YES !!
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        • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
          Originally Posted by discrat View Post

          I bet if you took a Poll of every single Policemen in US and asked them this Morning if when they got out of Bed did they have the desire and the intent of being evil and corrupt and wanting to shoot people later that day...I say about .0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 0001 % would reply with a YES !!
          Your number is off. Riffle is not a cop.
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  • Profile picture of the author joe golfer
    "An average person cannot comprehend the risks and has no true understanding of a cop’s job. Hollywood and television stereotypes of the police are cartoons in which fearless super cops singlehandedly defeat dozens of thugs, shooting guns out of their hands. Real life is different. An average cop is always concerned with his or her safety and tries to control every encounter. That is how we are trained. While most citizens are courteous and law abiding, the subset of people we generally interact with everyday are not the genteel types. You don’t know what is in my mind when I stop you. Did I just get a radio call of a shooting moments ago? Am I looking for a murderer or an armed fugitive? For you, this might be a “simple” traffic stop, for me each traffic stop is a potentially dangerous encounter. Show some empathy for an officer’s safety concerns. Don’t make our job more difficult than it already is."

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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by joe golfer View Post

      "An average person cannot comprehend the risks and has no true understanding of a cop's job. Hollywood and television stereotypes of the police are cartoons in which fearless super cops singlehandedly defeat dozens of thugs, shooting guns out of their hands. Real life is different. An average cop is always concerned with his or her safety and tries to control every encounter. That is how we are trained. While most citizens are courteous and law abiding, the subset of people we generally interact with everyday are not the genteel types. You don't know what is in my mind when I stop you. Did I just get a radio call of a shooting moments ago? Am I looking for a murderer or an armed fugitive? For you, this might be a "simple" traffic stop, for me each traffic stop is a potentially dangerous encounter. Show some empathy for an officer's safety concerns. Don't make our job more difficult than it already is."

      I
      I never understood the concept of not being able to understand this. Kevlar vests, for example, only cover maybe 80% of the body, and only stop SOME bullets and only to a degree. They have guns but, again, they are limited. And there are rules they are SUPPOSED to follow, so they have risks. And though I could imagine it, you hear on shows like forensic files about people actually TALKING with people that did nasty things and try to act innocent. That happened with Michael brown.

      That video, in the OP, was something. The first cop made a mistake by getting involved with the coat, and kind of tangled up. He should have had the suspect do that, observe, frisk, and THEN try to cuff him, and go for the other guy, though he SHOULD have had a partner there to do that. STILL, I didn't expect both people to come at him shooting.

      I always try to be as nice as possible to police though.

      Steve
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      • Profile picture of the author joe golfer
        Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

        I never understood the concept of not being able to understand this. Kevlar vests, for example, only cover maybe 80% of the body, and only stop SOME bullets and only to a degree. They have guns but, again, they are limited. And there are rules they are SUPPOSED to follow, so they have risks. And though I could imagine it, you hear on shows like forensic files about people actually TALKING with people that did nasty things and try to act innocent. That happened with Michael brown.

        That video, in the OP, was something. The first cop made a mistake by getting involved with the coat, and kind of tangled up. He should have had the suspect do that, observe, frisk, and THEN try to cuff him, and go for the other guy, though he SHOULD have had a partner there to do that. STILL, I didn't expect both people to come at him shooting.

        I always try to be as nice as possible to police though.

        Steve
        Yeah, the first one clip was strange because even I knew (not being an officer) he was doing it sort of wrong by turning his back to the first guy and saying "OK, there's lots of drugs here, take off your coat" or whatever he said, etc.
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        • Profile picture of the author The Niche Man
          I don't think it's a matter of people not liking the Police par se', as your thread title suggests. If the average police protestor discovered someone breaking in their home, stealing their car or robbing them, we all know the first person they'd call. As you stated.

          It's the cops that step over the line, who make me cringe, because they give the other 90% a bad name. I just never understood the blue code of silence many Police officers still feel a need to adhere to ... especially to protect rogue cops.

          You couldn't pay me to be Police officer, but I wouldn't dare live in this city, Los Angeles, or even Mayberry for that matter - without them. I just wish they'd make it a priority to rid the city of the residue of barely legal cops.

          The good news: The cell phone video is quietly leveling the playing field.
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          • Profile picture of the author Kay King
            I have to admit I don't understand some posts here. If this is your personal experience:

            That said - Out here in small town America where I live, the cops aren't all that frightening. I know most of them and have never had an encounter with them that they weren't polite and calm, and have only once seen them do what I would consider harassing someone needlessly - which they did non violently. Sal
            Why do you KEEP posting negative comments about police and how vicious they are and how they are out to get everyone in the country?

            From the FBI:

            According to statistics collected by the FBI, 76 law enforcement officers were killed in line-of-duty incidents in 2013. Of these, 27 law enforcement officers died as a result of felonious acts, and 49 officers died in accidents. In addition, 49,851 officers were victims of line-of-duty assaults.
            Seems to me if police killed every one who confronted them...there would hav been over 49,800 people killed by police in 2013.

            If they are now going to keep detailed lists of how many citizens are killed by cops....they need to put them in groups of "doing nothing wrong but killed by cops" and "resisting arrest", "attacking or appearing to attack police", ....etc.

            Wouldn't want to get our numbers wrong. Good to remember those killed by police are MOST often committing a crime or resisting arrest. Officers are killed doing their job.
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    • Profile picture of the author HeySal
      Originally Posted by joe golfer View Post

      "An average person cannot comprehend the risks and has no true understanding of a cop's job. Hollywood and television stereotypes of the police are cartoons in which fearless super cops singlehandedly defeat dozens of thugs, shooting guns out of their hands. Real life is different. An average cop is always concerned with his or her safety and tries to control every encounter. That is how we are trained. While most citizens are courteous and law abiding, the subset of people we generally interact with everyday are not the genteel types. You don't know what is in my mind when I stop you. Did I just get a radio call of a shooting moments ago? Am I looking for a murderer or an armed fugitive? For you, this might be a "simple" traffic stop, for me each traffic stop is a potentially dangerous encounter. Show some empathy for an officer's safety concerns. Don't make our job more difficult than it already is."

      I

      Know something, Joe? That line is getting pretty old. We KNOW that being a cop is a dangerous job - and it's not just danger of the gunfire variety. When a cop gets killed in a fire, it's usually because he was trying to rescue someone in it. When a cop gets drowned, the same thing - attempting rescue. In 2013, there were a few cops killed both ways while in office. Anyone whose brain is still engaged enough to be qualified to be thought of as still human knows the border region is a nightmare, not only for cops, but for our citizens. It's not the badge that makes that dangerous - it's living in the area that makes it so.

      Unfortunately, trumped stats are used to make people believe that any cop that was killed in the line of duty was killed via violence against them, and unfortunately, these days, that means that people are wondering if the the cop was attacking someone or was just victim of a pointed act of violence against him.

      How many swat teams are now used in raids for stupidity such as delivering a warrant? Really. Break into a house and terrorize or even kill the occupants or their pets to deliver a warrant? How often is violence being used against peaceful protesters? Remember recently that in Nevada a whole militia was launched against a family over property "taxes" - an issue they were fighting in court? People met that with like force to stop the slaughter of a family that had land the gov wanted to sell to a Chinese solar company.

      Now also consider - that police, like those in many professions keep an unwritten code of loyalty between them. Doctors don't tell on each other for writing unneeded prescriptions or for doing unnecessary surgeries, cops don't tell on other cops when they know one just beat the holy snot out of someone mainly just for the power trip.

      Just because a job is dangerous doesn't give the right to kill innocent people over nervousness. Exactly how is it going to improve safety for either side if someone is allowed to mow down anyone and everyone they feel might try to hurt them? One man was just judged not-guilty in court for killing a cop who had busted into his home with absolutely not one reason in the middle of the night in "raid" mode. He had been "raided", put in jail, and had to fight a legal system because a dude with a badge thought that the badge meant he could do whatever he pleased to anyone he pleased to do it to.

      During the best of days a cop has a dangerous job. When the force is being filled with militia trained thugs that are taught to ignore rights and enforce laws without the "protect and serve" mindset that used to be taught, and until cops start speaking out against those in their midst that use their badge as a certification of being above the law -- the good cops, the old fashioned town cop that is there to help, is going to be in more and more danger as time goes on. When the government stops issuing laws solely for the purpose of power and oppression and using cops as guard dogs to protect their elite status -- the good guys on the force are going to be in a very, very bad way.

      I've known a lot of cops, DAs, lawyers, judges personally. All but one of my encounters with cops have been nonthreatening - some even good socially. But back in NV - I had that one encounter where I was not only wrongfully accused of speeding in an area I hadn't even driven through, I was threatened with tasing just for telling him he had the wrong car. It only took me once to realize what a danger the mix of a badge and a bad attitude presents.
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      • Profile picture of the author Kay King
        trumped stats are used to make people believe that any cop that was killed in the line of duty was killed via violence against them
        And - trumped stats are used to make people believe that cops are randomly shooting innocent people for no reason.

        Robbing a store - attacking a cop - resisting arrest...aren't likely to end well.
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        • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
          I personally have huge respect for police officers.

          As a matter of fact, I've only encountered two that I didn't like, one on duty, one off.

          But I'm not going down a rabbit trail this time, lol!

          As a matter of fact, I've found when you treat them with respect in any given encounter, they respect you back.

          I've been pulled over a total of 7 times since I've been driving. How many tickets have I gotten?

          Zero!

          Why?

          Because I gave them the respect they were expecting, rather than attitude. That's what I believe anyway, haha!


          Terra
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              • Profile picture of the author Midnight Oil
                National Law Enforcement Officers Memorial





                • There are more than 900,000 sworn law enforcement officers now serving in the United States, which is the highest figure ever. About 12 percent of those are female.
                • According to the FBI's Uniform Crime Reports, an estimated 1.2 million violent crimes occurred nationwide in 2011, a four percent decrease from 2010.
                • Crime fighting has taken its toll. Since the first recorded police death in 1791, there have been over 20,000 law enforcement officers killed in the line of duty. Currently, there are 20,267 names engraved on the walls of the National Law Enforcement Officers Memorial.
                • A total of 1,501 law enforcement officers died in the line of duty during the past 10 years, an average of one death every 58 hours or 150 per year. There were 100 law enforcement officers killed in 2013.
                • On average, over the last decade, there have been 58,261 assaults against law enforcement each year, resulting in 15,658 injuries.
                • The 1920s were the deadliest decade in law enforcement history, when a total of 2,390 officers died, or an average of almost 239 each year. The deadliest year in law enforcement history was 1930, when 297 officers were killed. That figure dropped dramatically in the 1990s, to an average of 162 per year.
                • The deadliest day in law enforcement history was September 11, 2001, when 72 officers were killed while responding to the terrorist attacks on America.
                More:
                National Law Enforcement Officers Memorial Fund: Law Enforcement Facts
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  • Profile picture of the author joe golfer
    One problem with the system is scope creep. For example, in the area of border control, a few immigration checkpoints in several Southwest states a few years ago has now become a large number of drug checkpoints all over the country, miles inside America's borders, with warrantless searches not uncommon.
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  • Profile picture of the author MikeAmbrosio
    Yup - there re good cops and bad cops. And there are good citizens and bad ones.

    But frankly, at least of the people I know, none of us EVER thought that a cop show or movie was even close to reality. It's fictional drama. If the cop in that interview thinks the average person believes this, then perhaps HE needs a little reality check

    Then again, there are some pretty "simple" people out there...

    Whatever - I have had both good and not so good interactions with the police. The not so good ones were pretty mild, but also unwarranted. I'm not a criminal, nor do I play one on or off TV. Crime rates where I live are rather low so you would THINK friendly ones would out number the other - but not so much.

    And the "if you don't break the law you have nothing to worry about" thing is also not so simple or always true. About 15 years ago, while out to dinner with my lady, I had the cops invade and search my home without a warrant. I came home to 5 cop cars and a bunch of cops with attitudes in my house.

    Why were they there? Because they were after someone that lived down the block for drunk and disorderly stuff (not armed or dangerous - just an idiot who was well known for his drunken idiocy). He ran through my back yard. So these genius cops felt that was probable cause to break in to and search my house. It wasn't, which my lawyer pointed out in the complaint I filed.

    In the end, I got an apology and then I dropped the complaint. I made my point. But it's stuff like this that in my area gave the cops their "Little Gestapo" moniker. So sometimes, they deserve the rep they get. Considering the rep I got in my neighborhood after that crap, they are lucky I dropped the complaint.

    I will say though that overall, cops are good and decent. Perhaps at times over zealous, but SOME need attitude adjustments of their own. They are not infallible either.
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