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2 year old son shoots mom dead!

by WalkingCarpet Banned
45 replies
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Mom killed when son grabs gun from her purse in Walmart - CNN.com

Any of you lot carry a gun in ya purses??
  • Profile picture of the author discrat
    In the words of Dan Riffle, " This won't end well "
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  • Profile picture of the author Cam Connor
    Originally Posted by WalkingCarpet View Post

    This just proves it: 2 year olds CAN NOT handle firearms responsibly. Moms, stop arming your toddlers with firearms! It's dangerous!
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  • Profile picture of the author Diana Lane
    An absolute tragedy, but some small blessing in a way that he killed her and not one of her other kids instead. At least she'll never have to live with that.
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    • Profile picture of the author AprilCT
      That is so tragic. Unnecessarily tragic because she should have never had a gun within anyone else's easy reach.
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      • Profile picture of the author WalkingCarpet
        Banned
        Originally Posted by AprilCT View Post

        That is so tragic. Unnecessarily tragic because she should have never had a gun within anyone else's easy reach.
        Taking a loaded gun when going shopping with the kids??
        Only in America.
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        • Profile picture of the author Daniel Evans
          Originally Posted by WalkingCarpet View Post

          Taking a loaded gun when going shopping with the kids??
          Only in America.
          It's the only way she could have felt safe amongst people who carry loaded guns whilst shopping to feel safe amongst people who carry loaded guns whilst shopping.

          Alas, the star spangled paradox...
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          • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
            Banned
            Originally Posted by Daniel Evans View Post

            Alas, the star spangled lunacy...
            Fixed that for you.

            Cheer. - Frank
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          • Profile picture of the author seasoned
            Originally Posted by Daniel Evans View Post

            It's the only way she could have felt safe amongst people who carry loaded guns whilst shopping to feel safe amongst people who carry loaded guns whilst shopping.

            Alas, the star spangled paradox...
            Nearly 100% of all people that would shoot you don't care about the law AT ALL! THEY will shoot you even if you were in australia or japan.

            Steve
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            • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
              Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

              Nearly 100% of all people that would shoot you don't care about the law AT ALL! THEY will shoot you even if you were in australia or japan.

              Steve
              Would they shoot me Now, or waited til l got home?



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              • Profile picture of the author seasoned
                Originally Posted by tagiscom View Post

                Would they shoot me Now, or waited til l got home?



                Warner Bros Daffy Duck, Bugs Bunny cartoon Quote!
                Depends!

                Steve
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                • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
                  Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

                  The NRA is for REASONABLE handling and storage of arms.
                  Yes, reasonable, not foolproof, need to be foolproof, otherwise the last statement is valid.

                  But it is also true that people who put swimming pools in their back yards, with children are pushing their luck. Thankfully pool fences are compulsory, but not 100% effective.

                  Locking a gun up in a metal box with a key isn't foolproof, not for a kid! But putting it on a mini safe, is much better, at least the kid will have a seriously hard time trying to break into it!

                  Thats what l am getting at, a dumb tin box with key isn't enough!

                  YEP! The WORLD is insane!
                  True!

                  You sure about that?
                  Yes, we have had a few nutters stab someone to death and it takes minutes instead of seconds, unless he is lucky!

                  Steve[/quote]

                  Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

                  Depends!

                  Steve
                  Shoot him now! LOL


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                  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
                    Originally Posted by tagiscom View Post

                    Yes, reasonable, not foolproof, need to be foolproof, otherwise the last statement is valid.
                    You want foolproof? HERE is the way!.....

                    1. Create a type of robot that is autonomous with NO feeling, etc... and its ONLY job is to get rid of all weapons. OOOOPS! Problem #1, this could destroy all of humanity! Oh well, let's continue. These robots must seem like magic with no perceived method of operation. They must be quick, able to defend themselves, MECHANICALLY, etc....
                    2. Create a time machine.
                    3. Send the robots to every point of the globe in the distant past.

                    But it is also true that people who put swimming pools in their back yards, with children are pushing their luck. Thankfully pool fences are compulsory, but not 100% effective.
                    HECK, when I was younger, many stairs had no riser! That created a lip that is VERY dangerous, especially for KIDS. Supposedly, they passed rules against it in the 1970s. It took them long enough. Dangers exist EVERYWHERE! A kid could fall asleep, or have a seizure, and drown in a BATHTUB!

                    Locking a gun up in a metal box with a key isn't foolproof, not for a kid! But putting it on a mini safe, is much better, at least the kid will have a seriously hard time trying to break into it!
                    And the NRA says the SAME THING!

                    Steve
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            • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
              Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

              Nearly 100% of all people that would shoot you don't care about the law AT ALL! THEY will shoot you even if you were in australia or japan.

              Steve
              You have to admit, that would be an incredible shot.

              But hey..they aimed for Mars, and hit it.
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              • Profile picture of the author seasoned
                Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                You have to admit, that would be an incredible shot.

                But hey..they aimed for Mars, and hit it.
                Hopefully you guys KNEW I meant that people in australia may shoot you in australia, and people in japan may shoot you in japan, and they generally do NOT care if it is legal to even own a gun.

                Steve
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                • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                  Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

                  Hopefully you guys KNEW I meant that people in australia may shoot you in australia, and people in japan may shoot you in japan, and they generally do NOT care if it is legal to even own a gun.

                  Steve
                  Steve; I did not know that. I thought you meant firing a gun in Kentucky, and aimed at someone in Australia.

                  Honest. I would never joke about something so serious.
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                  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
                    Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                    Steve; I did not know that. I thought you meant firing a gun in Kentucky, and aimed at someone in Australia.

                    Honest. I would never joke about something so serious.
                    WOW! I've heard of rifles that could shoot like a mile, but I think if it could shoot a TRILLION miles, it would NEVER reach australia from most states, since it would hit something ELSE first!

                    Steve
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                    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                      Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

                      WOW! I've heard of rifles that could shoot like a mile, but I think if it could shoot a TRILLION miles, it would NEVER reach australia from most states, since it would hit something ELSE first!

                      Steve
                      OK, so.....what on Earth is a trillion miles away? What continent is a trillion miles away from what other continent? Australia is only a trillion miles away, if you travel by train.

                      Did you know that if you shoot a bullet at the moon, it never hits the moon? Here's why...

                      By the time the bullet hits the moon, the moon is in another spot in its orbit. And that is why there are no bullet holes on the moon. But there are craters on the moon. That means that the moon was once close enough to hit by throwing a rock.

                      And the reason we don't see new craters on the moon, is that...in 1905, a law was passed that made it illegal to throw rocks at the moon.


                      The more you know.......
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                      • Profile picture of the author seasoned
                        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                        OK, so.....what on Earth is a trillion miles away? What continent is a trillion miles away from what other continent? Australia is only a trillion miles away, if you travel by train.

                        Did you know that if you shoot a bullet at the moon, it never hits the moon? Here's why...

                        By the time the bullet hits the moon, the moon is in another spot in its orbit. And that is why there are no bullet holes on the moon. But there are craters on the moon. That means that the moon was once close enough to hit by throwing a rock.

                        And the reason we don't see new craters on the moon, is that...in 1905, a law was passed that made it illegal to throw rocks at the moon.


                        The more you know.......
                        OK, OK, I said trillion to emphasize. I know the earth isn't that big. If it WERE though.....

                        And YEP, even if the bullet went at the speed of light, it would be nowhere near where you aimed it because the moon would be several light seconds away from where you are aiming, and would be that much farther away after you pull the trigger. Alas, bullets trave NOWHERE near the speed of light, and couldn't travel that far ANYWAY.

                        Steve
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              • Profile picture of the author discrat
                There are people who are responsible with Guns and carrying a permit to have one in Public,
                but there are many, many people who are not careful and responsible .

                These people like this woman have no business carrying a Gun like that.

                They did a test on Dateline and people who had Guns in their house had NO idea that their young children knew where to go and how to get it until a hidden camera proved they did.


                Its these people who give a bad name to NRA and gun lovers.

                there are just way too many people who have guns who have NO business having one

                I have no interest in Guns. NEVER have and NEVER will. I do not get why people become so Gun crazy.

                It is beyond comprehension.

                But in our Country I think you do have the right to protect you and your family if you are responsible like most Gun handlers are.
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  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
    Banned
    2 year olds are inquisitive and can operate zippers obviously. Not a good place for a loaded gun when you leave your purse and your child unsupervised for any amount of time. I feel bad for the kid as someday he will most likely find out that he killed his mother.
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

      2 year olds are inquisitive and can operate zippers obviously. Not a good place for a loaded gun when you leave your purse and your child unsupervised for any amount of time. I feel bad for the kid as someday he will most likely find out that he killed his mother.
      Yeah, and there is gravity, and crowds, and purse thieves. It is just IDIOTIC! And I assume she did not even have the SAFETY on! People like her just make everyone ELSE look that much worse.

      Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

      2 year olds are inquisitive and can operate zippers obviously. Not a good place for a loaded gun when you leave your purse and your child unsupervised for any amount of time. I feel bad for the kid as someday he will most likely find out that he killed his mother.
      I don't know why, but for the past several decades plus, they have had this STUPID theory, in the US at least, that kids AREN'T inquisitive, DON'T imitate, and can't figure things out. HECK, they have "child proof caps" here.

      Ironically, the one segment of the population that seems to have the most trouble is older people. Many pharmacies even offer replacements for the child proof caps. YEP, some tend to have problems aligning things, and pushing down while turning.

      Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author NeedBucksNow
    Wow. That is why you should never have guns around kids but at least he didn't shoot himself. Still that will probably haunt him forever & couldn't imagine what he will have to cope with later in life.
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    • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
      Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

      I don't know why, but for the past several decades plus, they have had this STUPID theory, in the US at least, that kids AREN'T inquisitive, DON'T imitate, and can't figure things out. HECK, they have "child proof caps" here.

      Ironically, the one segment of the population that seems to have the most trouble is older people. Many pharmacies even offer replacements for the child proof caps. YEP, some tend to have problems aligning things, and pushing down while turning.

      Steve
      Yes, a rights to arms Lobbys are saying, that a certain percentage of your children will die, be maimed or main, kill someone else by accident, but at least you can protect yourself in the meantime?

      A fitting rule for an insane world!


      At least in AU, the chance of a 2 year old stabbing someone to death is considerably lower?



      But are Aussies any smarter, not really, we have had a few drownings recently, it seems that parents just don't get how easily their child can drown or be killed, eventhough this point has been advertised to death for a good 10 years or more!!!
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      • Profile picture of the author seasoned
        Originally Posted by tagiscom View Post

        Yes, a rights to arms Lobbys are saying, that a certain percentage of your children will die, be maimed or main, kill someone else by accident, but at least you can protect yourself in the meantime?
        The NRA is for REASONABLE handling and storage of arms.

        A fitting rule for an insane world!
        YEP! The WORLD is insane!

        At least in AU, the chance of a 2 year old stabbing someone to death is considerably lower?
        You sure about that?

        But are Aussies any smarter, not really, we have had a few drownings recently, it seems that parents just don't get how easily their child can drown or be killed, eventhough this point has been advertised to death for a good 10 years or more!!!
        Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
    I have a friend who comes from a long line of hunters/gun handlers.
    In her family, kids have to be pretty old (I can't recall the age) and
    responsible before they are allowed to handle any type of gun.

    She made a very good point . She says that there should not be
    toy guns -BBs, Airsoft's, etc. because people need to learn
    that real guns are only made to kill things. Having toy guns
    of any sort dilutes the seriousness of having guns and leads
    to improper gun education.

    Tragedies such as the one posted should not happen.

    My Dad dated a female judge who successfully defended
    herself from an intruder in her bedroom. She was able to draw
    her gun and cause him to run off. That's how it should work.
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    People are way too interested in gun registration and not nearly interested enough in gun education. When I was a kid they taught kids in school how to handle firearms. People back then were generally responsible. I was taught to handle a gun at 4 yrs of age and it was because we had one in the house - which was something I didn't even know until I was taught to use it because my father was so careful with it. As soon as I was old enough to understand, I was taught and that's the way it was in our town. Everyone had a gun. We had 0 gun deaths in our town. I think I remember a guy getting shot once hunting, but we had guns and no accidents - no murders. What changed?

    If that woman had been trained to handle and own that gun, this probably wouldn't have happened. But I bet she was registered, so it's all good right?

    I say we forget about registration and make training classes mandatory for new gun owners. It's not a bad thing to have a gun - it's pitiful to be so careless that your two year old can get to it.
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    • Profile picture of the author Daniel Evans
      The two year old happened to make use of a tool in ways it was designed for.

      A wheel rolls with a push.

      Live by, die by.
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      People are way to interested in gun registration and not nearly interested enough in gun education. When I was a kid they taught kids in school how to handle firearms. People back then were generally responsible. I was taught to handle a gun at 4 yrs of age and it was because we had one in the house - which was something I didn't even know until I was taught to use it because my father was so careful with it. As soon as I was old enough to understand, I was taught and that's the way it was in our town. Everyone had a gun. We had 0 gun deaths in our town. I think I remember a guy getting shot once hunting, but we had guns and no accidents - no murders. What changed?

      If that woman had been trained to handle and own that gun, this probably wouldn't have happened. But I bet she was registered, so it's all good right?

      I say we forget about registration and make training classes mandatory for new gun owners. It's not a bad thing to have a gun - it's pitiful to be so careless that your two year old can get to it.
      ALAS, that is the way some think!

      1. The GOAL!
      2. One of MANY ways to facilitate the goal!
      3. A way to facilitate #2
      4. A way to facilitate #3

      The GOVERNMENT CLAIMS they have done #1, but really only touched, and often HURT, #4!

      SO, EDUCATION?

      1. EDUCATION.
      2. Teachers
      3. Schools
      4. Tuition

      So the government, CLAIMING to provide education, pay tuition for public schools which provide teachers that care only about money and time.

      HEALTHCARE?

      1. HEALTHCARE.
      2. Doctors
      3. Hospitals
      4. Insurance

      So the government, CLAIMING to provide healthcare. helps with premiums for insurance, though the premiums are higher, that merely pay PART of the hospitals and doctors fees. Never mind that the insurance isn't healthcare, and you don't even really have the insurance, but rather a policy. Odd that all others should have high wages, but hospitals and doctors shouldn't.

      Anyway, a better society, and relatively minor understanding about guns, etc... would go a LONG way towards making people safe. The US COULD have been, and ****SHOULD**** have been the SAFEST place on the planet. That it isn't just shows how INEPT the government is.

      I was never considered "COOL", and based on how many shows, and schools I have been in, portray cool kids, I guess I am GLAD I never was! THEY are supposed to be the ones people look up to, and they are a BIG part of why the society is so bad.

      Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author reln
    what I cant figure out is how the child was able to cock and load the gun and then turn off the safety. Unless....
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by reln View Post

      what I cant figure out is how the child was able to cock and load the gun and then turn off the safety. Unless....
      Yeah, he would have to find the bullets, figure out how to load the gun, load it, reassemble it, etc... That would be effectively prima facie evidence that the mother WANTED him to do all that and KNEW about it.

      THAT is why I am automatically assuming that she had it all ready to go. Guns today, for the most part, have methods that are not even that obvious. ALSO, even if you DID load the average semi automatic, it will NOT shoot! You could keep trying to pull the trigger, but NOTHING! It is powered by the bullets SO, if there is no bullet in the chamber....

      Every once and a while, on a show, you will see a person loading the gun and SOMETIMES, they pull the slide back. THAT is why they pull that slide. It takes in a bullet to start things. I doubt the average 2year old, even if they KNEW to do it, could pull the average one back safely. SO, the "thoughtful" mother probably ALREADY did it for him.

      Steve
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      • Profile picture of the author SteveJohnson
        The woman that was killed, Veronica Rutledge, was a nuclear research scientist at the Idaho National Laboratory. She had a concealed carry permit and normally always carried the weapon on her person.

        The purse was specially made with a zippered concealed weapon holster built-in. She received it as a Christmas present from her husband as they had been looking for a less-obtrusive way to carry the weapon. Obviously, neither of them took the inquisitiveness of a child into account.

        This was a tragedy, certainly. But, it was also something that could have been forseen, at least in hindsight.

        Originally Posted by WalkingCarpet View Post

        Taking a loaded gun when going shopping with the kids??
        Only in America.
        More accurately, in Blackfoot, Idaho. There, you carry a gun because you have your kids with you. Someone has to protect them; the police don't.

        Originally Posted by Daniel Evans View Post

        It's the only way she could have felt safe amongst people who carry loaded guns whilst shopping to feel safe amongst people who carry loaded guns whilst shopping.

        Alas, the star spangled paradox...
        Possibly, more likely it was to feel safe against illegals with knives. Quite common, in that part of the state.

        Originally Posted by discrat View Post

        There are people who are responsible with Guns and carrying a permit to have one in Public, but there are many, many people who are not careful and responsible .

        These people like this woman have no business carrying a Gun like that.[...]
        She was both, if you'd take time to learn about her. Unfortunately, not careful enough.

        Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

        People are way too interested in gun registration and not nearly interested enough in gun education. When I was a kid they taught kids in school how to handle firearms. People back then were generally responsible. I was taught to handle a gun at 4 yrs of age and it was because we had one in the house - which was something I didn't even know until I was taught to use it because my father was so careful with it. As soon as I was old enough to understand, I was taught and that's the way it was in our town. Everyone had a gun. We had 0 gun deaths in our town. I think I remember a guy getting shot once hunting, but we had guns and no accidents - no murders. What changed?
        Tolerance for people who are obviously on the south side of sane. Violent video games. Violent TV and movies.

        If that woman had been trained to handle and own that gun, this probably wouldn't have happened. But I bet she was registered, so it's all good right?

        I say we forget about registration and make training classes mandatory for new gun owners. It's not a bad thing to have a gun - it's pitiful to be so careless that your two year old can get to it.
        She was trained, as was/is her husband, and was not a 'new gun owner'.
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        • Profile picture of the author Cali16
          Even the most trained, responsible individuals are still human and make mistakes. None of us is perfect, and despite our best efforts, we simply can't anticipate or foresee every angle and possible outcome.

          This was a terrible tragedy. My heart goes out to this woman's husband and her little boy.
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      • Profile picture of the author AprilCT
        She might have lived in a rough area where she really needed the gun for protection. The big problem here, though, is taking four children shopping. Most likely all four were in car seats and had to be buckled in a car seat, meaning that poor mom would be in a vulnerable position for any attacker.

        Loading the groceries in the car with four kids running around the cars in the lot and who knows what or whom is lurking and looking for a victim, something to steal or kids or her to kidnap.

        Putting that gun in her purse was her first mistake. Not securing it responsibly where it was accessible to her alone in a hurry and otherwise hidden was her second.

        Taking all those kids shopping with her was her second mistake.

        Even one person with a hidden gun could have taken out the Sydney terrorist and perhaps saved the lives of those two women who died. As it was, everyone there were just hostages with no way to stop that guy. Imagine how much different the situation could have been if one, two or more had hidden guns and were trained to use them?
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        • Profile picture of the author Cali16
          Originally Posted by AprilCT View Post

          The big problem here, though, is taking four children shopping. Most likely all four were in car seats and had to be buckled in a car seat, meaning that poor mom would be in a vulnerable position for any attacker.

          Taking all those kids shopping with her was her second mistake.
          You seem to be making a lot of assumptions here, April. I've read several news articles on this incident and none that I found said anything about the ages of her nieces (the other three children who were with her). Why are you assuming they would all need car seats? They may all have been several years older than her two year old - not "running around" or needing car seats.

          I'm just a bit baffled as to why you assume taking four kids shopping is automatically a mistake. There were 5 kids in my family, and my mom took at least 3 or 4 of us (and often all 5) shopping with her all the time, especially when we were all quite young. We were well behaved and weren't running around in stores or in the parking lot.
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      • Profile picture of the author SteveJohnson
        Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

        Yeah, he would have to find the bullets, figure out how to load the gun, load it, reassemble it, etc... That would be effectively prima facie evidence that the mother WANTED him to do all that and KNEW about it.

        THAT is why I am automatically assuming that she had it all ready to go. Guns today, for the most part, have methods that are not even that obvious. ALSO, even if you DID load the average semi automatic, it will NOT shoot! You could keep trying to pull the trigger, but NOTHING! It is powered by the bullets SO, if there is no bullet in the chamber....

        Every once and a while, on a show, you will see a person loading the gun and SOMETIMES, they pull the slide back. THAT is why they pull that slide. It takes in a bullet to start things. I doubt the average 2year old, even if they KNEW to do it, could pull the average one back safely. SO, the "thoughtful" mother probably ALREADY did it for him.

        Steve
        Most modern semi-automatic pistols are 'double-action', meaning that when the hammer is down the early stage of the trigger pull cocks the hammer before letting it go at the release stage. After the weapon fires, the hammer is locked in the cocked position by the action of the slide.

        DA pistols can be used as 'single-action' pistols by cocking the hammer manually. The trigger pull then releases the hammer. The advantage is that the trigger pull is lighter as it does not have to perform the added duty of cocking the hammer.

        Most DA pistols have a decocking lever that allows for safe decocking of the hammer. Most single-action-only pistols do not, requiring that the trigger of a 'cocked and locked' weapon be held down as the hammer is slowly - and hopefully safely - lowered on the live round. The Colt M1911A is the most famous of this type of pistol.

        No one I know that carries a handgun does so on an empty chamber. It seriously reduces the effectiveness of the weapon, requiring that a round be chambered by 'racking' the slide before it is capable of firing.

        Steve, you really ought to learn what you're talking about before you spout off.
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  • Profile picture of the author yukon
    Banned
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    • Profile picture of the author RichBeck
      Originally Posted by yukon View Post

      Too funny.............. I love it!
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      • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
        Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

        You want foolproof? HERE is the way!.....

        1. Create a type of robot that is autonomous with NO feeling, etc... and its ONLY job is to get rid of all weapons. OOOOPS! Problem #1, this could destroy all of humanity! Oh well, let's continue. These robots must seem like magic with no perceived method of operation. They must be quick, able to defend themselves, MECHANICALLY, etc....
        2. Create a time machine.
        3. Send the robots to every point of the globe in the distant past.



        HECK, when I was younger, many stairs had no riser! That created a lip that is VERY dangerous, especially for KIDS. Supposedly, they passed rules against it in the 1970s. It took them long enough. Dangers exist EVERYWHERE! A kid could fall asleep, or have a seizure, and drown in a BATHTUB!



        And the NRA says the SAME THING!

        Steve
        Oooookkkk!

        NRA says the same thing, ok, good to know l guess!

        True a kid could drown in a bathtub, especially if the dumb parents don't keep an eye out for them. Or they get drunk and overdose on Crack?


        Signature
        Archimedes Forum, Sign up l won't bite
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      • Profile picture of the author yukon
        Banned
        Originally Posted by RichBeck View Post

        Too funny.............. I love it!
        I'm only a messenger, lol.
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  • Profile picture of the author RichBeck
    Obviously, the mother failed to secure her gun..... That is a tragedy.... It could have happened in any country.....

    But, the vast majority of gun owners know how to secure their guns.... like this gal....


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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      First of all, regarding the ages of kids, I posted here earlier about how one guy, after breaking into her home, tried to hurt/threaten a 12yo girl that was home alone. SHE was prepared! She called her mother, got permission, and hid in her closet with the mother's gun, and WAITED. The robber went through the home, and made the mistake of trying to open the closet. He ended up needing medical attention, and being arrested by the cops. AND, though I doubt a 2yo could safely operate all aspects of a gun, a 5yo or older may be able to.

      Of course I would NEVER recommend trusting the average young kid with a gun without prior experience as to how he or she might treat it. Truth be told, after all I have seen, I wouldn't even trust a FIFTY 5 year old!

      Sometimes kids can be an ASSET! Regarding bears, I have heard several different theories. The following site might have better info:

      Center for Wildlife - Be Bear Aware - Bear Encounters

      Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author garyv
    And that ends this conversation... (edit - I see the offensive post has been deleted. )


    But seriously - more kids will be killed by their mother's driving or her drugs than by her handgun. By far. This was a tragedy, no doubt, but not a real common one. Not if you consider how many concealed weapons are out there.
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  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
    Banned
    In spite of the news reports reporting her as a nuclear scientist, I think the woman died of sheer stupidity and it's fortunate that children weren't killed instead of her.

    A special pocket with a zipper is child's play. My kids used to unzipper their one piece zippered PJs when they were babies and slip out of them all the time. There's nothing tricky about sliding a zipper open and when a child encounters one, it's a given that they will attempt it.

    The fact that it is reported that she was trained in using guns means nothing apparently. Was that gun not equipped with a safety? That's gun safety 101. Sorry, she flunks.
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