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Arrests plummet 66% with NYPD in virtual work stoppage | New York Post
  • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
    Banned
    Now there's a sure-fire way to garner respect from the public at large. Those folks need an image consultant.

    Cheers. - Frank
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    • Profile picture of the author ThomM
      Citations for traffic violations fell by 94 percent, from 10,069 to 587, during that time frame.
      Summonses for low-level offenses like public drinking and urination also plunged 94 percent -- from 4,831 to 300.
      Even parking violations are way down, dropping by 92 percent, from 14,699 to 1,241.
      Drug arrests by cops assigned to the NYPD's Organized Crime Control Bureau -- which are part of the overall number -- dropped by 84 percent, from 382 to 63.
      I'm sure that bothers the people down there
      I can hear them now getting all offended and mad that they didn't get a parking ticket.
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      • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
        Banned
        Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

        I'm sure that bothers the people down there
        I can hear them now getting all offended and mad that they didn't get a parking ticket.
        We'll see how mad they get when the situation deteriorates into borderline anarchy. I wonder who is setting the rules for picking and choosing which laws are enforced and which are ignored? I wonder if the list is updated, daily? I wonder how long before they start taking their time to 911 calls?

        Sounds like a perfect plan to me, if you are opposed to law and order, including the laws you may not like. Hey gang, park anywhere. Who cares if that hook and ladder truck can't get by?

        A real bunch of deep-thinkers. lol

        Cheers. - Frank
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        • Profile picture of the author ThomM
          Originally Posted by BigFrank View Post

          We'll see how mad they get when the situation deteriorates into borderline anarchy. I wonder who is setting the rules for picking and choosing which laws are enforced and which are ignored? I wonder if the list is updated, daily? I wonder how long before they start taking their time to 911 calls?

          Sounds like a perfect plan to me, if you are opposed to law and order, including the laws you may not like. Hey gang, park anywhere. Who cares if that hook and ladder truck can't get by?

          A real bunch of deep-thinkers. lol

          Cheers. - Frank
          They're simply not enforcing victimless crimes like what was stated in the article and what I quoted.
          Yeah not getting a parking ticket always leads to anarchy
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          • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
            Banned
            Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

            They're simply not enforcing victimless crimes like what was stated in the article and what I quoted.
            So far. We'll see where that leads.
            Yeah not getting a parking ticket always leads to anarchy
            Blocking a hook and ladder can lead to the loss of life. No problem. As long as we teach the mayor a lesson, what does it matter who might die in the process? Apparently, it doesn't!

            Cheers. - Frank
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            • Profile picture of the author ThomM
              Originally Posted by BigFrank View Post

              So far. We'll see where that leads.
              Blocking a hook and ladder can lead to the loss of life. No problem. As long as we teach the mayor a lesson, what does it matter who might die in the process? Apparently, it doesn't!

              Cheers. - Frank
              Ahh that's not a victim less crime Frank.
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              • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                I wonder who is setting the rules for picking and choosing which laws are enforced and which are ignored?
                I think the Mayor and the public set those rules. They called for "dead cops" - and cops are dead. They complained about cops enforcing "minor laws" - that they shouldn't bother people like Garner - that cops are too picky about the rules.

                Fine - they stopped being picky. They will focus on big crimes and ignore the little ones rather than put themselves at risk doing something no one seems to value.

                How stupid do you have to be to value criminal behavior over the work of those who protect your life and property from criminals? How hard must it be to do a job when both your boss and the people you protect fail to value what you do?

                Free speech is one thing - but allowing protestors to loot and steal and to call for death of cops...is over the line. Many of the protests are being organized up by various groups for their own agenda. These are not spontaneous 'protests' - and this could get very ugly very fast.
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                • Profile picture of the author whateverpedia
                  Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                  These are not spontaneous 'protests' - and this will get very ugly very fast.
                  Fixed that for you.
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                  • Profile picture of the author ThomM
                    How stupid do you have to be to value criminal behavior over the work of those who protect your life and property from criminals?
                    Those nasty criminals how dare they park in a spot after the meter ran out.
                    The nerve of people to not want laws enforced that are only meant to put money in the city coffers.
                    What you're calling criminal behavior is stuff that everyday people do everyday. Not putting money in a parking meter or getting back before you're time expired. Standing on the street corner having a beer with friends. If stuff like that is criminal behavior, then everyone in this country is a criminal.
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                    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
                      Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

                      Those nasty criminals how dare they park in a spot after the meter ran out.
                      The nerve of people to not want laws enforced that are only meant to put money in the city coffers.
                      What you're calling criminal behavior is stuff that everyday people do everyday. Not putting money in a parking meter or getting back before you're time expired. Standing on the street corner having a beer with friends. If stuff like that is criminal behavior, then everyone in this country is a criminal.
                      Well, the local governments claim that the money pays for infrastructure. ALSO, the money helps to limit use, so there is more availability. Some places have people mark the tires, and if they come back and see the marks match, meaning you have been there too long, THEY TOW YOUR CAR!!!!!!! So there IS a reason for the fee BESIDES getting money.

                      What we COULD do in the US is do what DENMARK does! In DENMARK, they figured out a way to have the money ONLY as a limiting factor!!!!!! After all, such an action is to enforce a RIGHT of all citizens! So how does DENMARK do it, at least in 1989, when I was there? They have a little sticker, with hands like a clock that you put on the front window. When you park in a place that is limited, you set the hands to the current time. Periodically, they check the cars. If your clock is too far behind the current time, you get a ticket! So you pay ONLY if you break the law!

                      Steve
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                      • Profile picture of the author ThomM
                        Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

                        Well, the local governments claim that the money pays for infrastructure. ALSO, the money helps to limit use, so there is more availability. Some places have people mark the tires, and if they come back and see the marks match, meaning you have been there too long, THEY TOW YOUR CAR!!!!!!! So there IS a reason for the fee BESIDES getting money.

                        What we COULD do in the US is do what DENMARK does! In DENMARK, they figured out a way to have the money ONLY as a limiting factor!!!!!! After all, such an action is to enforce a RIGHT of all citizens! So how does DENMARK do it, at least in 1989, when I was there? They have a little sticker, with hands like a clock that you put on the front window. When you park in a place that is limited, you set the hands to the current time. Periodically, they check the cars. If your clock is too far behind the current time, you get a ticket! So you pay ONLY if you break the law!

                        Steve
                        They can claim it but that doesn't make it so.
                        If all the money they claim is for infrastructure went to that, the roads and bridges wouldn't be in the shape they are in.
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                        Life: Nature's way of keeping meat fresh
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                        As you are I was, as I am you will be
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                        • Profile picture of the author seasoned
                          Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

                          They can claim it but that doesn't make it so.
                          If all the money they claim is for infrastructure went to that, the roads and bridges wouldn't be in the shape they are in.
                          I DID say CLAIM! The claim that:
                          R/E taxes
                          Drivers License fees
                          Gas taxes
                          Parking fees
                          Various business and living taxes
                          Various fines
                          toll fees

                          ALL support local infrastructure.

                          Steve
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                    • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
                      Banned
                      Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

                      The nerve of people to not want laws enforced that are only meant to put money in the city coffers.
                      Riiiiiiight. I wonder who the absolute first person would be to complain like crazy when the city has to raise taxes to make up for the shortfall. Oh, wait - you don't live in NYC.

                      I guess as long as things are perfect in your little part of the world, you're quite happy.

                      Like I said, 'deep thinkers.' lol

                      Cheers. - Frank
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                      • Profile picture of the author seasoned
                        Originally Posted by BigFrank View Post

                        Riiiiiiight. I wonder who the absolute first person would be to complain like crazy when the city has to raise taxes to make up for the shortfall. Oh, wait - you don't live in NYC.

                        I guess as long as things are perfect in your little part of the world, you're quite happy.

                        Like I said, 'deep thinkers.' lol

                        Cheers. - Frank
                        I complain about "shortfalls" ALL THE TIME! There is only **********ONE************ reliable way to solve the problem. Just ONE! There ALWAYS HAS been! It is what banks suggest, money managers suggest, any book keeper suggests. It is what MOST people have to do to keep THEIR accounts in order. It is the ONLY reason why everyone isn't MILLIONS of dollars in debt personally! SERIOUSLY, how many minimum wage earners do YOU know that are MILLIONS in debt?

                        So what is the magical, obvious, historical way used THROUGHOUT HISTORY? ***********CUT EXPENSES************! GEE, It would be nice to have a multimillion dollar estate. It would be nice to have a couple horses. Having a jet would be nice. I actually priced one out once! But NOPE, I can't afford it. For a long while, I had over $300,000 of credit on my credit cards, NOT INCLUDING the no limit American express cards. ALAS, I never bothered to go THAT far into debt. GEE, I could have started a company, hired a few people, maybe gotten ANOTHER line of credit, and started to get on the NYSE. These days, it seems like they will let ANYONE on!

                        WHERE did the STUPID rumor ,that not having enough money at the end of the month was because you didn't make enough, come from? And you guys are SO gun ho about saying RAISE TAXES! Does the average worker go into the bosses office and say "I NEED A RAISE"? NOPE! Does the average person that asks for one always get one? NOPE! Does raising taxes always mean more "revenue"? NOPE! Are there always going to be enough tax payers? NOPE!

                        Steve
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                        • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
                          Banned
                          Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

                          I complain about "shortfalls" ALL THE TIME! There is only **********ONE************ reliable way to solve the problem. Just ONE! There ALWAYS HAS been! It is what banks suggest, money managers suggest, any book keeper suggests. It is what MOST people have to do to keep THEIR accounts in order. It is the ONLY reason why everyone isn't MILLIONS of dollars in debt personally! SERIOUSLY, how many minimum wage earners do YOU know that are MILLIONS in debt?

                          So what is the magical, obvious, historical way used THROUGHOUT HISTORY? ***********CUT EXPENSES************! GEE, It would be nice to have a multimillion dollar estate. It would be nice to have a couple horses. Having a jet would be nice. I actually priced one out once! But NOPE, I can't afford it. For a long while, I had over $300,000 of credit on my credit cards, NOT INCLUDING the no limit American express cards. ALAS, I never bothered to go THAT far into debt. GEE, I could have started a company, hired a few people, maybe gotten ANOTHER line of credit, and started to get on the NYSE. These days, it seems like they will let ANYONE on!

                          WHERE did the STUPID rumor ,that not having enough money at the end of the month was because you didn't make enough, come from? And you guys are SO gun ho about saying RAISE TAXES! Does the average worker go into the bosses office and say "I NEED A RAISE"? NOPE! Does the average person that asks for one always get one? NOPE! Does raising taxes always mean more "revenue"? NOPE! Are there always going to be enough tax payers? NOPE!

                          Steve
                          Incoherent, regurgitated pablum.

                          Cheers. - Frank
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                          • Profile picture of the author seasoned
                            Originally Posted by BigFrank View Post

                            Incoherent, regurgitated pablum.

                            Cheers. - Frank
                            PLEASE! Run up all your credit, if you have any, buy all your heart desires! When you find you have trouble paying, ask the banks to raise your credit by another 10%. HECK, tell them WHY you need the credit. 6 months later, let us know how your credit rating is doing.

                            DON'T FORGET FOLKS! This I what the US is doing now! "Credit ceiling" is just another way of saying "credit limit".

                            I guess NEXT, you are going to say you are superman, being able to lift cars with one hand, and forget about sleep. I mean it is all just a biological equivalent of credit.

                            Even ANTS try to use less than they store. They can't always depend on finding something.

                            Steve
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                            • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
                              Banned
                              Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

                              PLEASE! Run up all your credit, if you have any, buy all your heart desires! When you find you have trouble paying, ask the banks to raise your credit by another 10%. HECK, tell them WHY you need the credit. 6 months later, let us know how your credit rating is doing.

                              DON'T FORGET FOLKS! This I what the US is doing now! "Credit ceiling" is just another way of saying "credit limit".

                              I guess NEXT, you are going to say you are superman, being able to lift cars with one hand, and forget about sleep. I mean it is all just a biological equivalent of credit.

                              Even ANTS try to use less than they store. They can't always depend on finding something.

                              Steve
                              I loathe repeating myself, but, incoherent, regurgitated pablum.

                              Cheers. - Frank
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                              • Profile picture of the author seasoned
                                Originally Posted by BigFrank View Post

                                I LOVE repeating myself, but, incoherent, regurgitated pablum.

                                Cheers. - Frank
                                THERE! I FIXED it for you!

                                Steve
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                                • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
                                  "The recent brutal murder of two Brooklyn police officers, Rafael Ramos and Wenjian Liu, is a national tragedy that should inspire nationwide mourning. Both my grandfather and father were police officers, so I appreciate what a difficult and dangerous profession law enforcement is. We need to value and celebrate the many officers dedicated to protecting the public and nourishing our justice system. It’s a job most of us don’t have the courage to do...


                                  At the same time, however, we need to understand that their deaths are in no way related to the massive protests against systemic abuses of the justice system as symbolized by the recent deaths—also national tragedies—of Eric Garner, Akai Gurley, and Michael Brown. Ismaaiyl Brinsley, the suicidal killer, wasn’t an impassioned activist expressing political frustration, he was a troubled man who had shot his girlfriend earlier that same day. He even Instagrammed warnings of his violent intentions. None of this is the behavior of a sane man or rational activist. The protests are no more to blame for his actions than The Catcher in the Rye was for the murder of John Lennon or the movie Taxi Driver for the attempted assassination of Ronald Reagan. Crazy has its own twisted logic and it is in no way related to the rational cause-and-effect world the rest of us attempt to create.

                                  Those who are trying to connect the murders of the officers with the thousands of articulate and peaceful protestors across America are being deliberately misleading in a cynical and selfish effort to turn public sentiment against the protestors. This is the same strategy used when trying to lump in the violence and looting with the legitimate protestors, who have disavowed that behavior. They hope to misdirect public attention and emotion in order to stop the protests and the progressive changes that have already resulted. Shaming and blaming is a lot easier than addressing legitimate claims.

                                  In a Dec. 21, 2014 article about the shooting, the Los Angeles Times referred to the New York City protests as “anti-police marches,” which is grossly inaccurate and illustrates the problem of perception the protestors are battling. The marches are meant to raise awareness of double standards, lack of adequate police candidate screening, and insufficient training that have resulted in unnecessary killings. Police are not under attack, institutionalized racism is. Trying to remove sexually abusive priests is not an attack on Catholicism, nor is removing ineffective teachers an attack on education. Bad apples, bad training, and bad officials who blindly protect them, are the enemy. And any institution worth saving should want to eliminate them, too."

                                  Kareem Abdul-Jabbar.

                                  NYPD Shooting: Kareem Abdul-Jabbar: This Is Tragedy, Not Politics
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                                  • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
                                    Banned
                                    Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

                                    Those who are trying to connect the murders of the officers with the thousands of articulate and peaceful protestors across America are being deliberately misleading in a cynical and selfish effort to turn public sentiment against the protestors.
                                    So, what's new?

                                    Cheers. - Frank
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                                    • Profile picture of the author ThomM
                                      Originally Posted by BigFrank View Post

                                      Thank your for making my point. By not enforcing 'victimless' crimes you create the opportunity for great tragedy.

                                      I'm happy you are able see far enough past your own nose to grasp the concept.

                                      Cheers. - Frank
                                      Thanks for missing my point Frank. Blocking a street is not a victimless crime. Now read that real slow and think about it. That is not something the police would stop enforcing. Can YOU grasp that concept?

                                      Originally Posted by BigFrank View Post

                                      Riiiiiiight. I wonder who the absolute first person would be to complain like crazy when the city has to raise taxes to make up for the shortfall. Oh, wait - you don't live in NYC.

                                      I guess as long as things are perfect in your little part of the world, you're quite happy.

                                      Like I said, 'deep thinkers.' lol

                                      Cheers. - Frank
                                      It's because of the already high taxes that this all started. Many of my high taxes also get funneled into NYC.
                                      Now do you live in NYC or even NYS for that matter? Yep real deep thinker you are

                                      Originally Posted by BigFrank View Post

                                      Funny, but unless I'm mistaken that's what former mayor Rudy Giuliani referred to as 'broken windows' policing, enforcing the smallest laws to set a tone of zero-tolerance. This is the very concept that the right credits with saving NYC from its decades long downward slide.

                                      You can't have it both ways, gang. You either want law and order or you don't. If you don't like the laws, change them. If you're going to serve your city as a 'law enforcement officer,' then do your job or quit. Otherwise you are just stealing your paycheck from the city and its residents and you are nothing more than an embarrassment to your badge and the oath that you raised your right hand and swore to abide by. In my book, that makes you a 'bad cop!'

                                      Cheers. - Frank
                                      Let me ask you Frank, how do you change the laws? Let me guess you ask them nicely and say please


                                      Originally Posted by BigFrank View Post

                                      Apparently you're not paying attention. In the 'new and improved' NYC, where the police decide which laws to enforce, turnstile jumping, a 'victimless crime' would never be enforced.

                                      Additionally, where does the MTA get their nerve to insist that individuals that use their service should be forced to pay to do so.

                                      Here's two words that the right loves to bandy about - 'slippery slope.' lol

                                      Cheers. - Frank
                                      Again Frank you have a hard time understanding what a victim less crime is don't you.
                                      Theft of service (or stealing) is not a victim less crime.
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                                      • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
                                        Banned
                                        Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

                                        Thanks for missing my point Frank. Blocking a street is not a victimless crime. That is not something the police would stop enforcing. concept?
                                        And you know this, how? Oh, right, I forgot. You're another card-carrying member of the "I know everything crowd.' Getting kinda packed in that clubhouse, ain't it?
                                        Now do you live in NYC or even NYS for that matter?
                                        I lived in NYC for 14 years. Have you? Riiiiiight!
                                        Theft of service (or stealing) is not a victim less crime.
                                        Really? Who's injured, other than the MTA coffers? One more area that you, in all your ability to know what the future holds, have decreed it as something that could never happen. lol

                                        I'm sorry that you can't keep up. Let it go!

                                        Unfortunately, you have just entered the ranks of those that I will no longer engage with since at some level I feel responsible for that fact that every time you post you just make yourself look worse. I can't handle that responsibility.

                                        Now, let's see if you are the third person in the clown-car triumvirate that has the sense to stop posting or if you, too will display the infantile need to get in the last word because you can't let what little manhood you cling to be challenged.

                                        We're all waiting for you to prove me 100% on the money - as usual!

                                        Cheers. - Frank
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                                        • Profile picture of the author ThomM
                                          Originally Posted by BigFrank View Post

                                          And you know this, how? Oh, right, I forgot. You're another card-carrying member of the "I know everything crowd.' Getting kinda packed in that clubhouse, ain't it?
                                          I lived in NYC for 14 years. Have you? Riiiiiight!
                                          Where do you live now Frank? How long ago did you live there? Does any of your taxes currently go to NYC? I thought so. As usual you can't come up with anything to prove me wrong so you resort to your juvenile type of name calling, classic Frank lol.
                                          Originally Posted by BigFrank View Post

                                          Really? Who's injured, other than the MTA coffers? One more area that you, in all your ability to know what the future holds, have decreed it as something that could never happen. lol

                                          I'm sorry that you can't keep up. Let it go!
                                          You really are clueless on what constitutes a victim less crime aren't you. I'll type this in all caps so maybe it will filter into your head. THEFT OF SERVICE IS STEALING. STEALING IS NOT A VICTIM LESS CRIME. THE PERSON OR BUSINESS THAT HAD IT'S SERVICE STOLEN IS THE VICTIM. Try to keep up Frank, this kind of stuff actually requires using your brain and thinking.
                                          Originally Posted by BigFrank View Post

                                          Unfortunately, you have just entered the ranks of those that I will no longer engage with since at some level I feel responsible for that fact that every time you post you just make yourself look worse. I can't handle that responsibility.

                                          Now, let's see if you are the third person in the clown-car triumvirate that has the sense to stop posting or if you, too will display the infantile need to get in the last word because you can't let what little manhood you cling to be challenged.

                                          We're all waiting for you to prove me 100% on the money - as usual!

                                          Cheers. - Frank
                                          Gee I'm hurt, Frank won't engage with me any more.
                                          Yep you make me look worse by displaying your lack of intelligence, I got it.
                                          How's that superior attitude working for you Frank?
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                                          Life: Nature's way of keeping meat fresh
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                                          • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
                                            Banned
                                            Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

                                            How's that superior attitude working for you Frank?
                                            Perfectly! lol

                                            Cheers. - Frank
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                                            • Profile picture of the author seasoned
                                              Originally Posted by BigFrank View Post

                                              Perfectly! lol

                                              Cheers. - Frank
                                              OH, OK! So the idea about ignore, and plan were you talking to yourself in the third person! GOT IT!

                                              Steve
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                                              • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
                                                All we need now is to have Don come and post 5 pages of graphs and pie charts and this thread will be complete! Lol
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                                                • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
                                                  Banned
                                                  Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

                                                  All we need now is to have Don come and post 5 pages of graphs and pie charts and this thread will be complete! Lol
                                                  Five? That's a very slow day in the chart and graph department. :-)

                                                  Cheers. - Frank
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                                                • Profile picture of the author ThomM
                                                  Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

                                                  All we need now is to have Don come and post 5 pages of graphs and pie charts and this thread will be complete! Lol
                                                  That could be tough Tim.
                                                  I talked to a friend of mine who lives in the city and he told me that day to day life is still pretty much the same.
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                                                  Life: Nature's way of keeping meat fresh
                                                  Getting old ain't for sissy's
                                                  As you are I was, as I am you will be
                                                  You can't fix stupid, but you can always out smart it.

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                                                • Profile picture of the author yukon
                                                  Banned
                                                  Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

                                                  All we need now is to have Don come and post 5 pages of graphs and pie charts and this thread will be complete! Lol


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                                            • Profile picture of the author ThomM
                                              Originally Posted by BigFrank View Post

                                              Unfortunately, you have just entered the ranks of those that I will no longer engage with
                                              Originally Posted by BigFrank View Post

                                              Perfectly! lol

                                              Cheers. - Frank
                                              Yet you're still engaging.
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                                              Life: Nature's way of keeping meat fresh
                                              Getting old ain't for sissy's
                                              As you are I was, as I am you will be
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                                              • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
                                                Banned
                                                Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

                                                Yet you're still engaging.
                                                Still gotta get that last word in, don't you? lol Another of my points, proven. I seem to be batting 1000.

                                                Cheers. - Frank

                                                P.S. Go ahead. I can do this all day.
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                                                • Profile picture of the author ThomM
                                                  Originally Posted by BigFrank View Post

                                                  Still gotta get that last word in, don't you? lol Another of my points, proven. I seem to be batting 1000.

                                                  Cheers. - Frank

                                                  P.S. Go ahead. I can do this all day.
                                                  Still having a hard time understanding I see.
                                                  Let's recount. You don't understand what a victim less crime is and you don't understand what not engaging means.
                                                  Yeah you're batting 1000.
                                                  If I'm the one trying to get the last word in, why do you keep on replying to my posts?
                                                  Keep trying Frank, even a broke clock is right twice a day.
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                                                  Life: Nature's way of keeping meat fresh
                                                  Getting old ain't for sissy's
                                                  As you are I was, as I am you will be
                                                  You can't fix stupid, but you can always out smart it.

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                                                  • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
                                                    Banned
                                                    Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

                                                    Still having a hard time understanding I see.
                                                    Let's recount. You don't understand what a victim less crime is and you don't understand what not engaging means.
                                                    Yeah you're batting 1000.
                                                    If I'm the one trying to get the last word in, why do you keep on replying to my posts?
                                                    Keep trying Frank, even a broke clock is right twice a day.
                                                    Being as superior as I am, I tend to be right more often than that.

                                                    Your turn, unless you have finally decided that you absolutely DO NOT have to have the last word, something which we both know that you are entirely incapable of. The proof, well, you're typing the proof, this very second. If you're going to do things that make me correct 100% of the time, you can't knock me when I'm correct 100% of the time.

                                                    All I do is make a declarative statement. You then come along and validate my statement. Yet, I'm the bad guy. lol

                                                    Cheers. - Frank
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                                                    • Profile picture of the author ThomM
                                                      If you sell outside of a store, you are doing the same thing with that store that you did with that turnstyle.
                                                      Here's the real problem Steve. NYS has the highest cig tax in the nation and NYC adds more tax onto that. That creates the illegal market for cigs. Not counting sales tax, the tax on a pack of cigs in NYC is over $5.00.
                                                      To add a little perspective alcohol tax ranges between 10 cents and $1.00 plus sales tax.
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                                                      • Profile picture of the author seasoned
                                                        Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

                                                        Here's the real problem Steve. NYS has the highest cig tax in the nation and NYC adds more tax onto that. That creates the illegal market for cigs. Not counting sales tax, the tax on a pack of cigs in NYC is over $5.00.
                                                        To add a little perspective alcohol tax ranges between 10 cents and $1.00 plus sales tax.
                                                        Yeah, I DID say it was due to tax, and almost spoke of how high the New york tax is.

                                                        I won't go into detail, but I once bought a carton of cigarettes in a country and brought them to my uncle in ANOTHER country, where the cigarettes originally came from. WHY? Because they cost 1/2 the cost, and I could get more than my relative,because they were forbidden to, as a resident of that country.

                                                        Steve
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                                                        • Profile picture of the author ThomM
                                                          Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

                                                          Yeah, I DID say it was due to tax, and almost spoke of how high the New york tax is.

                                                          I won't go into detail, but I once bought a carton of cigarettes in a country and brought them to my uncle in ANOTHER country, where the cigarettes originally came from. WHY? Because they cost 1/2 the cost, and I could get more than my relative,because they were forbidden to, as a resident of that country.

                                                          Steve
                                                          That's just it. Living close to the state border we get our cigs in Vermont or New Hampshire when we can. I roll my own or use an e-cig. Indian reservations are a source of cigs for a lot of new yorkers. All those are legal ways to beat the taxes. The high taxes are a bigger threat to the store owner selling cigs then the guy on the corner selling loosies.
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                                                          Life: Nature's way of keeping meat fresh
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                                                          • Profile picture of the author Tom B
                                                            Banned
                                                            This type of response from the police shows the problem with police. They are above the law in many ways and they just proven it yet again. They shouldn't be and that is why many people don't trust them.
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                                                            • Profile picture of the author ThomM
                                                              Originally Posted by Thomas Belknap View Post

                                                              This type of response from the police shows the problem with police. They are above the law in many ways and they just proven it yet again. They shouldn't be and that is why many people don't trust them.
                                                              Considering what they Mayor said (that started this) the cities lucky they didn't go on a complete work stoppage.
                                                              Following the nonindictment of Officer Daniel Pantaleo for the lethal arrest of Eric Garner last July, de Blasio said that Garner's death and the grand jury's failure to indict sprung from "not years of racism . . . , or decades of racism, but centuries of racism." The mayor worries "every night," he said, about the "dangers" his biracial son, Dante, may face from "officers who are paid to protect him."
                                                              In other words, de Blasio thinks that his son is at risk of injury or death from an NYPD officer every time he steps outside at night. And he sees the officers who tried to arrest a resisting Garner as the culmination of centuries of racism, even though the shopkeepers in the area who had been urging the police to clear up lawlessness were mostly minorities themselves.
                                                              It is impossible to overstate how inflammatory and ignorant de Blasio's statements are. De Blasio's pronouncements were merely a wordier version of the protest chants against "killer cops" and belonged to the national frenzy of cop-bashing that provoked the assassination of Officers Rafael Ramos and Wenjian Liu. Heather Mac Donald: De Blasio
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                                                              Life: Nature's way of keeping meat fresh
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                                                              • Profile picture of the author Tom B
                                                                Banned
                                                                Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

                                                                Considering what they Mayor said (that started this) the cities lucky they didn't go on a complete work stoppage.
                                                                The cops have every right to go on strike. They don't have the right to pick and choose what parts of their jobs they do or don't do if they decide to show up for work. I don't want to see anybody hurt but there are valid reasons for the blow back against cops that we are seeing.
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                                                                • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
                                                                  Banned
                                                                  Originally Posted by Thomas Belknap View Post

                                                                  The cops have every right to go on strike. They don't have the right to pick and choose what parts of their jobs they do or don't do if they decide to show up for work. I don't want to see anybody hurt but there are valid reasons for the blow back against cops that we are seeing.
                                                                  Amen, to that! Either turn in your badge and service revolver or do the job that you were hired to do, totally - and without complaint. If you don't like being a cop, there are lots of other ways to make a living. Stop stealing your paycheck and acting like a coward in the process. Any cop that's afraid to make an arrest for public urination because he fears for his safety, needs to grow a pair.

                                                                  Too bad Ronald Reagan's not the mayor of NYC. He would have fired them all and started over.

                                                                  If the current mayor was smart, he'd walk up to a cop that turned his back on him, look him in the eye and say, "I'm your boss. Salute me or hand in your badge and gun. If you don't respect me, you can't work for me. You're fired. You don't like it? Take it up with your union."

                                                                  Cheers. - Frank
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                                                                • Profile picture of the author ThomM
                                                                  Originally Posted by Thomas Belknap View Post

                                                                  The cops have every right to go on strike. They don't have the right to pick and choose what parts of their jobs they do or don't do if they decide to show up for work. I don't want to see anybody hurt but there are valid reasons for the blow back against cops that we are seeing.
                                                                  I agree there are many valid reasons, but how does a mayor of a city the size of New York adding fuel to the fire help?
                                                                  This is basically a partial strike in response to his comments.
                                                                  Doesn't it make more sense to not give someone a parking ticket or not arrest someone for having a beer in public in protest rather then not enforcing all the laws and allowing things like murder (which would be a complete strike).
                                                                  The way they are protesting isn't endangering the public.
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                                                                  • Profile picture of the author Tom B
                                                                    Banned
                                                                    Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

                                                                    I agree there are many valid reasons, but how does a mayor of a city the size of New York adding fuel to the fire help?
                                                                    This is basically a partial strike in response to his comments.
                                                                    Doesn't it make more sense to not give someone a parking ticket or not arrest someone for having a beer in public in protest rather then not enforcing all the laws and allowing things like murder (which would be a complete strike).
                                                                    The way they are protesting isn't endangering the public.
                                                                    I don't see it that way Thom. I have had plenty of bosses say things I didn't like and I still did my job. I didn't do part of the job because they hurt my feelings.

                                                                    Now why would I expect anything less from someone else doing a job for a paycheck?

                                                                    Cops shouldn't be allowed to do as they please. There is no faith in cops anymore and rightly so. You can't count on them to do the right thing when it's one of them doing the wrong thing. This act is just further proof as far as I'm concerned.

                                                                    The mayor was an idiot but that doesn't mean the cops have the right to do only bits of the job they deem worthy. Don't forget, some of those unworthy tickets do lead to capturing hardcore criminals.

                                                                    Edited to add: The cops will just have to do what we all have to do when we don't like an elected official... wait until voting time and remove them.
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                                                                    • Profile picture of the author ThomM
                                                                      Originally Posted by Thomas Belknap View Post

                                                                      I don't see it that way Thom. I have had plenty of bosses say things I didn't like and I still did my job. I didn't do part of the job because they hurt my feelings.

                                                                      Now why would I expect anything less from someone else doing a job for a paycheck?

                                                                      Cops shouldn't be allowed to do as they please. There is no faith in cops anymore and rightly so. You can't count on them to do the right thing when it's one of them doing the wrong thing. This act is just further proof as far as I'm concerned.

                                                                      The mayor was an idiot but that doesn't mean the cops have the right to do only bits of the job they deem worthy. Don't forget, some of those unworthy tickets do lead to capturing hardcore criminals.

                                                                      Edited to add: The cops will just have to do what we all have to do when we don't like an elected official... wait until voting time and remove them.
                                                                      So have I, but there's difference between our old bosses and theirs. None of my bosses where the mayor of a large city who then told the public that the cops are racist and and he doesn't feel that even his family is safe from them. Plus he says all this at a time when there are already protests across the country against police. Right after he says it two nyc cops are executed.
                                                                      He's lucky this is all they are doing. It would of served him right if the entire force up and quit.
                                                                      If anything his job is to work with the police commissioner in cleaning up and straightening out the force. It's not inciting people against the police.
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                                                                      Life: Nature's way of keeping meat fresh
                                                                      Getting old ain't for sissy's
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                                                                      You can't fix stupid, but you can always out smart it.

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                                                                      • Profile picture of the author Tom B
                                                                        Banned
                                                                        Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

                                                                        So have I, but there's difference between our old bosses and theirs. None of my bosses where the mayor of a large city who then told the public that the cops are racist and and he doesn't feel that even his family is safe from them. Plus he says all this at a time when there are already protests across the country against police. Right after he says it two nyc cops are executed.
                                                                        He's lucky this is all they are doing. It would of served him right if the entire force up and quit.
                                                                        If anything his job is to work with the police commissioner in cleaning up and straightening out the force. It's not inciting people against the police.
                                                                        We will just have to disagree. I do think the mayor should have been working towards bringing people together instead of breaking them apart. Besides that, I would just be repeating myself.

                                                                        I don't think the cops deserve their jobs after this stunt.

                                                                        Maybe what Frank said would be best, fire them all and start over. At least they would realize they have to be responsible for their actions.
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                                                                        • Profile picture of the author ThomM
                                                                          Originally Posted by Thomas Belknap View Post

                                                                          We will just have to disagree. I do think the mayor should have been working towards bringing people together instead of breaking them apart. Besides that, I would just be repeating myself. I don't think the cops deserve their jobs after this stunt.

                                                                          Maybe what Frank said would be best, fire them all and start over. At least they would realize they have to be responsible for their actions.
                                                                          Most of them didn't deserve their job before this stunt
                                                                          I don't think firing them all is a good idea, but a good house cleaning sure wouldn't hurt.
                                                                          Keep in mind also that this selective enforcement came from the police unions as a directive to their members.
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                                                                          Life: Nature's way of keeping meat fresh
                                                                          Getting old ain't for sissy's
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                                                                          You can't fix stupid, but you can always out smart it.

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                                                                          • Profile picture of the author ThomM
                                                                            I should add Thomas, that the only reason I support their actions is because of the laws they are choosing not to enforce. All of them are simply revenue generators for the city and nothing more.
                                                                            Maybe when the people see that these laws aren't to protect them but to target them they will start some real change.
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                                                                            Life: Nature's way of keeping meat fresh
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                                                                            • Profile picture of the author Tom B
                                                                              Banned
                                                                              Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

                                                                              I should add Thomas, that the only reason I support their actions is because of the laws they are choosing not to enforce. All of them are simply revenue generators for the city and nothing more.
                                                                              Maybe when the people see that these laws aren't to protect them but to target them they will start some real change.
                                                                              I hear you. I know a lot of the stuff cops do is for monetary gains. I can't stand the quota bs.

                                                                              I understand they are trying to hit the pockets but of course don't agree with the tactics.

                                                                              It would be a shame if a stop that could have taken a wanted criminal off the street is just brushed aside because they are mad at the mayor.

                                                                              I just don't trust cops much anymore because they have two sets of rules. One for cops and one for the rest of us. I have a couple of relatives that are cops. One shouldn't be and one is exactly what we need.
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                                                                              • Profile picture of the author ThomM
                                                                                Originally Posted by Thomas Belknap View Post

                                                                                I hear you. I know a lot of the stuff cops do is for monetary gains. I can't stand the quota bs.

                                                                                I understand they are trying to hit the pockets but of course don't agree with the tactics.

                                                                                It would be a shame if a stop that could have taken a wanted criminal off the street is just brushed aside because they are mad at the mayor.

                                                                                I just don't trust cops much anymore because they have two sets of rules. One for cops and one for the rest of us. I have a couple relatives that are cops. One shouldn't be and one is exactly what we need.
                                                                                Like I said I just hope the people open their eyes and see those particular laws for what they are.
                                                                                My first run in or contact with the police was almost 50 years ago. My last was about a month ago. I think the biggest problem with cops is how they have been changed into revenue collectors for the state through the laws they have to enforce. For the most part they aren't any different from the enforcers the other organized crime uses.
                                                                                The biggest racket around here are the DWI checkpoints.
                                                                                I'll use New Year eve for an example. The bigger cities here have a "first night" celebration. You buy a ticket and then when you visit all the bars that participate you get drink and food discounts. So basically the cities are promoting getting drunk. Of course the police have DWI checkpoints set up just outside the cities.
                                                                                On an individual basis I've meet cops that where on serious power trips and felt they are above the law. I've also meet cops that where pretty decent. But in the end I blame the laws that are no more then revenue generators that the police are pressured to enforce as the bigger problem and cause of at least some of the actions of the police like killing a man for selling untaxed cigs.
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                                                                                Life: Nature's way of keeping meat fresh
                                                                                Getting old ain't for sissy's
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                                                                                • Profile picture of the author Tom B
                                                                                  Banned
                                                                                  Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

                                                                                  Like I said I just hope the people open their eyes and see those particular laws for what they are.
                                                                                  My first run in or contact with the police was almost 50 years ago. My last was about a month ago. I think the biggest problem with cops is how they have been changed into revenue collectors for the state through the laws they have to enforce. For the most part they aren't any different from the enforcers the other organized crime uses.
                                                                                  The biggest racket around here are the DWI checkpoints.
                                                                                  I'll use New Year eve for an example. The bigger cities here have a "first night" celebration. You buy a ticket and then when you visit all the bars that participate you get drink and food discounts. So basically the cities are promoting getting drunk. Of course the police have DWI checkpoints set up just outside the cities.
                                                                                  On an individual basis I've meet cops that where on serious power trips and felt they are above the law. I've also meet cops that where pretty decent. But in the end I blame the laws that are no more then revenue generators that the police are pressured to enforce as the bigger problem and cause of at least some of the actions of the police like killing a man for selling untaxed cigs.
                                                                                  Funny, that reminds me of a time my buddy came up to visit. I was the DD so him and some of our other friends could drink up without having to worry.

                                                                                  We are in this bar and talking to a group of people. We get up to leave and one of the guys we met told us if we have any cop problems driving home to tell them we were with him. Apparently he was a cop and he thought we were all drunk.

                                                                                  I just thought, you mutha. haha

                                                                                  Those dui checkpoints and immigration checkpoints are ridiculous. Stopping people and putting them through that nonsense simply because they were driving down that road.
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                                                                              • Profile picture of the author seasoned
                                                                                Originally Posted by Thomas Belknap View Post

                                                                                I hear you. I know a lot of the stuff cops do is for monetary gains. I can't stand the quota bs.
                                                                                You're right about that. Even the idea of a quotaof tickets is GARBAGE! It is like when they start writing tikets for speeding. If EVERYONE is speeding, maybe they should consider changes, and NOT pick random people to ticket.

                                                                                As for races, guilty should be guilty, and why don't they simply track it better. Some will GLADLY say there is NO god, etc.... OK, if there is NO intelligence above us, WHO is making all equal? I mean ANY somewhat intelligent person realizes that people VARY! So there are TWO possibilities! Some GOD is meting everything so that ALL peoples, ALL DEMOGRAPHICS, etc.... are EQUAL, or they are NOT equal! So the idea of saying that someone is racist or sexist or whatever because the ratios changed is DUMB! Let's give them a pass if there is a legitimate reason to prosecute them like that.

                                                                                I understand they are trying to hit the pockets but of course don't agree with the tactics.
                                                                                Yeah, some people can go elsewhere and get away, are off the grid, or are poor, and tickets and the like don't bother THEM. So you could say THAT theory is discriminatory.

                                                                                It would be a shame if a stop that could have taken a wanted criminal off the street is just brushed aside because they are mad at the mayor.
                                                                                To clarify MY position, I was talking about stopping those prosecutions with the mayors relatives, supporters, etc.... If they committed an infraction, they would simply be scrutinized, and if someone committed something against THEM, someone else could take care of it. They probably have body guards anyway.

                                                                                I just don't trust cops much anymore because they have two sets of rules. One for cops and one for the rest of us. I have a couple of relatives that are cops. One shouldn't be and one is exactly what we need.
                                                                                Yeah, they have this new call "BLACK LIVES MATTER", and it seems they have a priority. FIRST is POLICE, THEN BLACKS, THEN other minorities and protected classes, and THEN DEAD LAST straight white non religious or christian or catholic males.

                                                                                How about we treat everyone the SAME!!!!!!!!!! Instead of all that garbage.

                                                                                Steve
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                                                                            • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                                                                              This is ridiculous. I guess we should fire all the cops - and then see if anyone else WANTS the jobs (and can qualify for them).

                                                                              Or maybe we don't need cops at all - just pols and people who protect their own neighborhoods and streets. Oh yeah - that would work.

                                                                              Brown - robbing a store, resisting arrest, died. The public and media go crazy. Garner, breaking the same law he was on probation for breaking, resisting arrest, died. Protestors call for "dead cops".

                                                                              Two good police officers working an extra detail on terrorist training....killed for no reason except they were cops.

                                                                              That does not balance for me.
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                                                                              • Profile picture of the author Tom B
                                                                                Banned
                                                                                Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                                                                                This is ridiculous. I guess we should fire all the cops - and then see if anyone else WANTS the jobs (and can qualify for them).

                                                                                Or maybe we don't need cops at all - just pols and people who protect their own neighborhoods and streets. Oh yeah - that would work.

                                                                                Brown - robbing a store, resisting arrest, died. The public and media go crazy. Garner, breaking the same law he was on probation for breaking, resisting arrest, died. Protestors call for "dead cops".

                                                                                Two good police officers working an extra detail on terrorist training....killed for no reason except they were cops.

                                                                                That does not balance for me.
                                                                                What does this have to do with what we were talking about? Are you saying cops should be able to pick and choose which part of their jobs they do?
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                                                                                • Profile picture of the author seasoned
                                                                                  Originally Posted by Thomas Belknap View Post

                                                                                  What does this have to do with what we were talking about? Are you saying cops should be able to pick and choose which part of their jobs they do?
                                                                                  YOU were talking about what the police apparently did because that idiot basically called for their deaths and accused them of cold blooded MURDER.

                                                                                  SHE was talking about what getting rid of them would do and pointed out that the REAL problem is that all this crime happened and politicians and the like are using it to exacerbate a kind of race war. One of those politicians was that afore mentioned idiot.

                                                                                  MAN, I see a 100% correlation between THIS and parts of WWII! It has recently hurt a lot of other countries. Are people REALLY so blind that they don't see it? Oh SURE, they USED to talk about wealth, privilege, culture, and people(Still often considered the same race as the local people) And NOW, they talk about wealth, privilege, culture, and people(Often NOT the same race as the local people), but the two sound like they are VERY close to one another. HECK if you go by names and history here, you find that some of the groups are often the SAME culture and people as in WWII. OK, we got the bankers,some top forbes listed guys, and doctors. I wonder when they will hit the lawyers, politicians, and media!

                                                                                  Steve
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                                                              • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                                                                Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

                                                                Considering what they Mayor said (that started this) the cities lucky they didn't go on a complete work stoppage.
                                                                Sorry but all the mayor did is have a discussion that countless fathers of color have had with their sons. If you think any of us are going to put our sons in harms way in order to give into the fantasy that there are no racist cops then you are deluded.

                                                                Mayor earned some serious father of the year kudos with those fathers - just a father loving his son first above everything else. Who doesn't like it will just have to deal with it, turn their backs or whatever.

                                                                We'd rather everyone turn their backs than see our sons on youtube videos saying they can't breath under a non choke hold choke hold.

                                                                Now if Kay could actually put the quote up where the mayor called for dead cops like she said earlier I would be inclined to say he had responsibility (but only limited because the shooter was severely mentally imbalanced anyway).
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                                                                • Profile picture of the author ThomM
                                                                  Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                                                                  Sorry but all the mayor did is have a discussion that countless fathers of color have had with their sons. If you think any of us are going to put our sons in harms way in order to give into the fantasy that there are no racist cops then you are deluded.

                                                                  Mayor earned some serious father of the year kudos with those fathers - just a father loving his son first above everything else. Who doesn't like it will just have to deal with it, turn their backs or whatever.

                                                                  We'd rather everyone turn their backs than see our sons on youtube videos saying they can't breath under a non choke hold choke hold.
                                                                  As mayor he had an opportunity to work with the police to fix the problem. Adding fuel to the fire and possibly escalating tensions is not the way to go. The problem isn't always race. Was it racist when the white cop (up here) beat on a white boy? Was it racist when as a teenager I was handcuffed to a radiator and beat up for field drinking?
                                                                  Finally was it racist that a black man shot and killed a Chinese cop?
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                                                                  • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                                                                    Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

                                                                    As mayor he had an opportunity to work with the police to fix the problem. Adding fuel to the fire and possibly escalating tensions is not the way to go. The problem isn't always race.
                                                                    and who said it always is? Thats a non sequitur. His discussion with his son was about race - his son's race. It makes no sense to say that when he is talking with his son about race it isn't about race now does it?

                                                                    So for people to be offended that he talked to his son and was concerned for him based on his race is just foolishness and its just rank foolishness to reinterpret that as some do that he was calling for dead cops or responsible for dead cops.

                                                                    As for his opportunity to work with the police. How would it change his suggestions to his son? Do you have children?. would you risk not giving life saving advice to one of them because you were working on the problem? That would be worse dad of the year material.

                                                                    Father protecting his son is ALWAYS the way to go.
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                                                                    • Profile picture of the author ThomM
                                                                      Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                                                                      and who said it always is? Thats a non sequitur. His discussion with his son was about race - his son's race. It makes no sense to say that when he is talking with his son about race it isn't about race now does it?

                                                                      So for people to be offended that he talked to his son and was concerned for him based on his race is just foolishness and its just rank foolishness to reinterpret that as some do that he was calling for dead cops or responsible for dead cops.

                                                                      As for his opportunity to work with the police. How would it change his suggestions to his son? Do you have children?. would you risk not giving life saving advice to one of them because you were working on the problem? That would be worse dad of the year material.
                                                                      It's not what he said to his son, it's publicly telling the police they're racist and he doesn't feel they are capable of protecting his son let alone the city.
                                                                      I'm not trying to defend the police here, I'm saying you don't fix a problem by making it worse.
                                                                      We had a similar problem here in Albany a few years ago. Cops where largely targeting blacks.
                                                                      The mayor recognized the problem but he didn't publicly say he didn't trust the cops to protect. Instead he set up a meeting with himself, the chef of police and various community leaders. They worked it out. The police take race relation training and work closer with the residents of the different communities in the city.
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                                                                      • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                                                                        Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

                                                                        It's not what he said to his son, it's publicly telling the police they're racist and he doesn't feel they are capable of protecting his son let alone the city.
                                                                        Heres the thing Thom. As Mayor the police are not his sole constituency. He clearlythinks race is an issue and he talked about a conversation he had wih his son in an interview. In the real world being. Mayor does not put you in a position to eradicate racism in any group while keeping it under cover. So he spoke his mind.

                                                                        Okay you disagree with that but how in the world does that equate to - you are responsible for the deaths of two police officers?? By that rationality anyone anywhere that holds to a group having any racists among them then qualifies for culpability should someone end up harming them for any reason.

                                                                        Sure I could see that for those who actually incited violence but the Mayor didn't call for any of that.Instead whats really happening is the police force unions are trying to pin it on him because he didn't agree with them or just blindly back them as the police.

                                                                        Question is ...why don't we do this after every shooting , killing spree done by an emotionally imbalanced person? Somethings set off the guys at columbine, the shipyard shootings, the midnight Batman shootings but in those cases we say well they were imbalanced and mentally ill. Its not enough here because people wish to make a racial and political statement out of it so in THIS case we listen to the ramblings of the killer and take it as rational and say okay since the madman is actually rational then lets find someone else to blame..
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                                                                        • Profile picture of the author ThomM
                                                                          Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                                                                          Heres the thing Thom. As Mayor the police are not his sole constituency. He clearlythinks race is an issue and he talked about a conversation he had wih his son in an interview. In the real world being. Mayor does not put you in a position to eradicate racism in any group while keeping it under cover. So he spoke his mind.

                                                                          Okay you disagree with that but how in the world does that equate to - you are responsible for the deaths of two police officers?? By that rationality anyone anywhere that holds to a group having any racists among them then qualifies for culpability should someone end up harming them for any reason.

                                                                          Sure I could see that for those who actually incited violence but the Mayor didn't call for any of that.Instead whats really happening is the police force unions are trying to pin it on him because he didn't agree with them or just blindly back them as the police.

                                                                          Question is ...why don't we do this after every shooting , killing spree done by an emotionally imbalanced person? Somethings set off the guys at columbine, the shipyard shootings, the midnight Batman shootings but in those cases we say well they were imbalanced and mentally ill. Its not enough here because people wish to make a racial and political statement out of it so in THIS case we listen to the ramblings of the killer and take it as rational and say okay since the madman is actually rational then lets find someone else to blame..
                                                                          I didn't say anything about keeping it undercover in fact I explained how the problem was handled up here. The mayor acknowledged the problem and then worked with the police and community to solve it.
                                                                          I'm also not saying he is responsible for the two cops getting killed. But his comments did have the potential for promoting violence.
                                                                          Like I said you don't fix a problem by making it worse.
                                                                          I'm not surprised though. There seems to be a trend in this country of people just taking a problem and instead of trying to bridge the gap and solve it, they'd rather make the gap wider.
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                                                                          • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                                                                            Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

                                                                            Like I said you don't fix a problem by making it worse.
                                                                            I'm not surprised though. There seems to be a trend in this country of people just taking a problem and instead of trying to bridge the gap and solve it, they'd rather make the gap wider.
                                                                            Thom when you distill that argument down to its basics its essentially complaining that the mayor spoke about what he told his son (not keeping it undercover) and claiming that anyone that publicly admits a problem is real is guilty of making it worse.

                                                                            In your case it seems two parties admitted there was an issue. In New York City there seems to be a belligerence that there is none. Your argument is used unintentionally in your case but unfortunately intentionally by others to claim whoever says there is an issue is guilty of creating it. Its the perfect heads I win tails you lose gambit.
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                                                                            • Profile picture of the author ThomM
                                                                              Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                                                                              Thom when you distill that argument down to its basics its essentially complaining that the mayor spoke about what he told his son (not keeping it undercover) and claiming that anyone that publicly admits a problem is real is guilty of making it worse.

                                                                              In your case it seems two parties admitted there was an issue. In New York City there seems to be a belligerence that there is none. Your argument is used unintentionally in your case but unfortunately intentionally by others to claim whoever says there is an issue is guilty of creating it. Its the perfect heads I win tails you lose gambit.
                                                                              No you're over analyzing it. The mayor in my example publicly admit there was a problem, but he did it with the chef of police and community leaders by his side. He also at the same time pledged to work with both sides to fix it.
                                                                              Again he didn't make the problem worse, he recognized it, publicly acknowledged it, worked with the police and community on fixing it. You know something a leader of a city should do.
                                                                              What's more important, trying to find racism or excepting it exists and moving forward to end it.
                                                                              Myself I except it exists and would like to move forward to end it.
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                                                                              • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                                                                                Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

                                                                                No you're over analyzing it. The mayor in my example publicly admit there was a problem, but he did it with the chef of police and community leaders by his side.
                                                                                and hence the apples and oranges. I'm sorry but life just doesn't work that way. You cannot look at a situation in one case (probably smaller scale as well) say this worked here so it should wok everywhere. Situations and peoples are different. NYPD showed no signs of being by any such side..
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                                                                                • Profile picture of the author ThomM
                                                                                  Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                                                                                  and hence the apples and oranges. I'm sorry but life just doesn't work that way. You cannot look at a situation in one case (probably smaller scale as well) say this worked here so it should wok everywhere. Situations and peoples are different. NYPD showed no signs of being by any such side..
                                                                                  So what you'd rather keep on yelling racism then try to do something about it?
                                                                                  By the way I wasn't saying one way will work everywhere. I gave an example of how the problem can be handled as opposed to making the problem worse.
                                                                                  Your reply is typical of people who don't want to solve a problem.
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                                                                                  • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                                                                                    Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

                                                                                    So what you'd rather keep on yelling racism then try to do something about it?
                                                                                    Thats a childish retort Thom. The black guy is yelling racism charge is played out. Try something new fresh or original. .The discussion was about the mayor (umm read the title of the thread?)and I was defending him not yelling racism. If you want to claim that one man can end racism then be my guest but it has no historical perspective and is illogical

                                                                                    Your reply is typical of people who don't want to solve a problem.
                                                                                    Totally Bogus and desperate accusation . I either agree with you that the Mayor is guilty of exacerbating the problem or I don't wish to solve racism. You are sounding more like Steve this morning. Way to piece together a false dichotimy

                                                                                    Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

                                                                                    Mike I noticed you ignored this part of my post.
                                                                                    Do you want to answer that?
                                                                                    Nope that s not original either. It s the old forum post game...If he doesn't reply to everything then he is ignoring or running from something. Obviously ending the problem is more important which makes the question kind of silly hence it was seen as rhetorical hence not ignored just not worth answering. Now is your criticizing the Mayor ending the problem??or was it the ignoring that the situations with the NYPD might not line up with your local solution supposed to end it?
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                                                                                    • Profile picture of the author ThomM
                                                                                      Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                                                                                      Thats a childish retort Thom. The black guy s yelling racism charge is played out. Try something new fresh or original. .The discussion was about the mayor (umm read the title of the thread?)and I was defending him not yelling racism. If you want to claim that one man can end racism then be my guest but it has no historical perspective and is illogical

                                                                                      Totally Bogus and desperate. I either agree with you that the Mayor is guilty of exacerbating the problem or I don't wish to solve racism. You are sounding more like Steve this morning.
                                                                                      Still ignoring the question and getting your facts wrong.
                                                                                      This is why it's hard to have a discussion on ending the problem.
                                                                                      Where did I claim one man can end racism, where?
                                                                                      When I mentioned what happened here as an example of people working together to solve a problem, what was your reply?
                                                                                      Someone serious about ending racism would of acknowledged that there are ways to work on it (as my example showed), not say "it won't work here".
                                                                                      What's getting real played out is trying to accuse everyone as racist. But you call it defending someone who is doing nothing but stirring the pot. You call it racism when a white cop attacks a black man, what do you call it when 4 black women beat up a white girl? Never mind I know you will avoid answering that question just like you avoid all the others.
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                                                                                      • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                                                                                        Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

                                                                                        Where did I claim one man can end racism, where?
                                                                                        You've been implying the Mayor is at fault the entire thread Thom. Go read your own posts..

                                                                                        Someone serious about ending racism would of acknowledged that there are ways to work on it (as my example showed), not say "it won't work here".
                                                                                        We've covered that before. Its the same old fallacious logic. I either agree with you or I don't want to end racism. Its no less sillier the second time around.

                                                                                        and now for the race chip on the shoulder

                                                                                        You call it racism when a white cop attacks a black man, what do you call it when 4 black women beat up a white girl? Never mind I know you will avoid answering that question just like you avoid all the others.
                                                                                        Lying never helps. Where are all the others I avoid. You are stereotyping - certain in your mind that I have no issue with Black on White crime when in fact you know nothing (like most stereotypers).I find four black women beating up a white girl very likely racist.

                                                                                        See how little you know?

                                                                                        Anymore things you wish to ask me about that you supposedly know the answer for and that I will not answer? I mean since I am the one that has my facts wrong.
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                                                                                        • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
                                                                                          It's interesting that even NYPD cops are feel threatened by NYPD cops when off duty.

                                                                                          Reuters interviewed 25 African American male officers on the NYPD, 15 of whom are retired and 10 of whom are still serving. All but one said that, when off duty and out of uniform, they had been victims of racial profiling, which refers to using race or ethnicity as grounds for suspecting someone of having committed a crime.

                                                                                          The officers said this included being pulled over for no reason, having their heads slammed against their cars, getting guns brandished in their faces, being thrown into prison vans and experiencing stop and frisks while shopping. The majority of the officers said they had been pulled over multiple times while driving. Five had had guns pulled on them.

                                                                                          Desmond Blaize, who retired two years ago as a sergeant in the 41st Precinct in the Bronx, said he once got stopped while taking a jog through Brooklyn's upmarket Prospect Park. "I had my ID on me so it didn't escalate," said Blaize, who has sued the department alleging he was racially harassed on the job. "But what's suspicious about a jogger? In jogging clothes?"
                                                                                          Off duty, black cops in New York feel threat from fellow police | Reuters
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                                                                                        • Profile picture of the author ThomM
                                                                                          Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                                                                                          You've been implying the Mayor is at fault the entire thread Thom. Go read your own posts..

                                                                                          We've covered that before. Its the same old fallacious logic. I either agree with you or I don't want to end racism. Its no less sillier the second time around.

                                                                                          and now for the race chip on the shoulder

                                                                                          Lying never helps. Where are all the others I avoid. You are stereotyping - certain in your mind that I have no issue with Black on White crime when in fact you know nothing (like most stereotypers).I find four black women beating up a white girl very likely racist.

                                                                                          See how little you know?

                                                                                          Anymore things you wish to ask me about that you supposedly know the answer for and that I will not answer? I mean since I am the one that has my facts wrong.
                                                                                          I got it you can't answer simple questions and instead have to resort to this.
                                                                                          Now I'm stereotyping people because I asked a question to try and understand where you're coming form? Gee how did I know you would try something like that. Of course you don't see how you're doing what you are accusing me of doing. You'd rather accuse people of being stereotypes or racist then work with them to end the problem.

                                                                                          I wasn't implying the mayor was at fault I stated he was and I stated why. But I see you would rather defend him then discuss how he could of handled it better and what can be done to end the problems we all face.
                                                                                          You're either part of the problem or part of the solution.
                                                                                          When I was raising my kids I taught them equality. I did everything I could to show them racism was wrong. Just like my father did with me. I also taught them that "rights" apply to everyone equally and that they are responsible for their actions.
                                                                                          I see the mayor as part of the problem and honestly I see you in the same boat as him.
                                                                                          Not once did I see you offer any type of solution or even suggest an idea to at least start working on the problem.
                                                                                          If you want to end racism, it starts with you.
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                                                                                          • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                                                                                            Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

                                                                                            I got it you can't answer simple questions and instead have to resort to this.
                                                                                            You got nothing thats your problem. You swore you knew what I would answer and wouldn't and even what my answer would be and it was all wrong. Now your just plowing on to save the egg on your face for your presumptions. I'm not resorting to anything . its a rather classic definition of stereotyping that you are doing

                                                                                            Now I'm stereotyping people because I asked a question to try and understand where you're coming form?
                                                                                            Of course not (ignoring the fabrication you wanted to try and understand anything) but nice try to bait and switch the argument. You are not stereotyping because you asked a question but because you presumed with limited to non existent information to know the answer and what I would avoid answering etc..

                                                                                            Do you even know what stereotyping is? Here educate yourself

                                                                                            Stereotype - a widely held but fixed and oversimplified image or idea of a particular type of person or thing.

                                                                                            What do we have from you over the last two or three posts

                                                                                            What you know I would do
                                                                                            what you knew I would not answer
                                                                                            What you know I would avoid
                                                                                            what you know would be my view of four black women beating up a white woman

                                                                                            Thom You are not just a stereotyper . You are the CLASSIC kind of stereotyper.

                                                                                            You swear you know me and my views on situations we have never discussed without even asking me. Why? well because in a thread that is not even titled "How should we solve Racism" I didn't agree one of your solutions would work and egad as African American male on this Forum have taken to disagreeing with certain counterparts of yours on race on threads that didn't even last very long.

                                                                                            From these two things you think you can speak for me, answer questions for me and presume t know what I will not answer. I mean you are so brilliant a stereotyper you can probably tell me my favorite color and what I should put on in the morning that will best go with my eyes. - all based on a few posts made on a forum

                                                                                            Hence YES by definition you ARE a stereotyper and you brought that upon yourself into this conversation by presuming to answer (WRONGLY) on my behalf
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                                                                                            • Profile picture of the author ThomM
                                                                                              Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                                                                                              You got nothing thats your problem. You swore you knew what I would answer and wouldn't and even what my answer would be and it was all wrong. Now your just plowing on to save the egg on your face for your presumptions. I'm not resorting to anything . its a rather classic definition of stereotyping that you are doing



                                                                                              Of course not but nice try to bait and switch the argument. You are not stereotyping because you asked a question but because you presumed with limited to non existent information to know the answer and what I would avoid answering etc..

                                                                                              Do you even know what stereotyping is? Here educate yourself

                                                                                              Stereotype - a widely held but fixed and oversimplified image or idea of a particular type of person or thing.

                                                                                              What do we have from you over the last two or three posts

                                                                                              What you know I would do
                                                                                              what you knew I would not answer
                                                                                              What you know I would avoid
                                                                                              what you know would be my view of four black women beating up a white woman

                                                                                              Thom You are not just a stereotyper . You are the CLASSIC kind of stereotyper.

                                                                                              You swear you know me and my views on situations we have never discussed without even asking me. Why? well because in a thread that is not even titled "How should we solve Racism" I didn't agree one of your solutions would work and egad as African American male on this Forum have taken to disagreeing with certain counterparts of yours on race on threads that didn't even last very long.

                                                                                              From these two things you think you can speak for me, answer questions for me and presume t know what I will not answer. I mean you are so brilliant a stereotyper you can probably tell me my favorite color and what I should put on in the morning that will best go with my eyes. - all based on a few posts made on a forum

                                                                                              Hence YES by definition you ARE a stereotyper and you brought that upon yourself into this conversation by presuming to answer (WRONGLY) on my behalf
                                                                                              Do you wear hip boots while you shovel your bull? Like I said you've shown you'd rather be a part of the problem then part of the solution.
                                                                                              I've pointed out possible solution and you simply dismissed it. Have you offered up any ways to solve the problem? No. Instead you try to make me out as the bad guy.
                                                                                              I guess when you acknowledge a problem exists and try to come up with ways to solve the problem that makes you the bad guy.
                                                                                              Like I've said right along you're either part of the problem or part of the solution. I've choosen to be part of the solution by not promoting racism and not teaching it to my kids.
                                                                                              Let me know when you decide to be part of the solution, till then have a good day.
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                                                                                              • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                                                                                                Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

                                                                                                D I've choosen to be part of the solution by not promoting racism and not teaching it to my kids.
                                                                                                but doing other things that allow it room to grow..

                                                                                                At the heart of racism is the tendency to lump people together and "know" things about them, what they think what they would do. You've shown an ample tendency in that area and a belligerence in maintaining that "knowledge". Mind you stereotyping is possible without racism. Children however often pick things up from us that we didn't intend for them to pick up so I'd be careful..

                                                                                                So theres one solution for you - stop teaching children to stereotype by your example. You cut off the oxygen for racism to grow when you defeat the thought processes that lead up to it
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                                                                                                • Profile picture of the author ThomM
                                                                                                  Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                                                                                                  but doing other things that allow it room to grow..

                                                                                                  At the heart of racism is the tendency to lump people together and "know" things about them, what they think what they would do.
                                                                                                  You've shown an ample tendency in that area and a belligerence in maintaining that "knowledge". Mind you stereotyping is possible without racism. Children however often pick things up from us that we didn't intend for them to pick up so I'd be careful..
                                                                                                  Yep just like you've been doing.
                                                                                                  What my kids have picked up from me is that skin color or religion doesn't make the person, what have your kids picked up from you?
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                                                                                                  • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                                                                                                    Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

                                                                                                    Yep just like you've been doing.
                                                                                                    You got nailed by and on the basis of your own statements presuming to know what you didn't. Still not getting the hang of what presumption is eh? What my kids have learnt/picked up from me is when they make a mistake and make a presumption about what someone will do or say that is wrong they should admit they are wrong.

                                                                                                    If you want I can email the lesson plan over to you since apparently that was missing from your previous curriculum .
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                                                                                                    • Profile picture of the author ThomM
                                                                                                      Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                                                                                                      You got nailed by and on the basis of your own statements presuming to know what you didn't. Still not getting the hang of what presumption is eh? What my kids have learnt/picked up from me is when they make a mistake and make a presumption about what someone will do or say that is wrong they should admit they are wrong.

                                                                                                      If you want I can email the lesson plan over to you since apparently that was missing from your previous curriculum .
                                                                                                      To bad you don't follow your own advice.
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                                                                                                      • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                                                                                                        Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

                                                                                                        To bad you don't follow your own advice.
                                                                                                        Thom whatever you have to do to feel better about yourself after getting nailed on wrong presumptions of what I would answer (or not answer) - do it. at this point I feel bad for you.
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                                                                                                        • Profile picture of the author ThomM
                                                                                                          Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                                                                                                          Thom whatever you have to do to feel better about yourself after getting nailed on wrong presumptions of what I would answer (or not answer) - do it. at this point I feel bad for you.
                                                                                                          Feelings mutual.
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                                                                                          • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                                                                                            Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

                                                                                            I see the mayor as part of the problem and honestly I see you in the same boat as him.
                                                                                            Not once did I see you offer any type of solution or even suggest an idea to at least start working on the problem.
                                                                                            Total Silliness. This is a thread about the NYPD and a Mayor. I had no idea when I entered it that we would all have to do presentations on how to end racism. If you want to start a thread about solving racism then I can pull out my powerpoint and brush of my own life experiences with it but here s the thing. It will be a lot deeper and more nuanced than your pretty trite idea of its nature.

                                                                                            Sorry but only someone who has no grasp on the subject would even feign suggesting that the solution is going to be arrived at by a few posts on an internet marketing board.
                                                                                            Its quite obvious that you have no clue. To you its another version of why can't we just all get along and you swear in your five minutes of deliberation you've come up with the solution and how dare I claim it wouldn't work under a different set of circumstances

                                                                                            If you want to end racism, it starts with you.
                                                                                            and the same goes for you ....if you want to that is rather than wave your hand and pretend it can be swept away by remaining quiet or a meeting or two. Please... You don't even know what the boat looks like from inside so who cares where you see me on it. I'm beginning to see you on the same boat with some others as well so we are even on the boats issue.

                                                                                            You're either part of the problem or part of the solution.
                                                                                            One things for certain. Anyone whose into stereotyping and answering questions for others sure isn't what the solution needs. When it does work itself out people with your views should stay on the sideline. They certainly shouldn;t be put in any place to lead on an issue they have no clue about (no matter what their fantasies).
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                                                                                            • Profile picture of the author ThomM
                                                                                              Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                                                                                              Total Silliness. This is a thread about the NYPD and a Mayor. I had no idea when I entered it that we would all have to do presentations on how to end racism. If you want to start a thread about solving racism then I can pull out my powerpoint and brush of my own life experiences with it but here s the thing. It will be a lot deeper and more nuanced than your pretty trite idea of its nature.

                                                                                              Sorry but only someone who has no grasp on the subject would even feign suggesting that the solution is going to be arrived at by a few posts on an internet marketing board.
                                                                                              Its quite obvious that you have no clue. To you its another version of why can't we just all get along and you swear in your five minutes of deliberation you've come up with the solution and how dare I claim it wouldn't work under a different set of circumstances



                                                                                              and the same goes for you ....if you want to that is rather than wave your hand and pretend it can be swept away by remaining quiet or a meeting or two. Please... You don't even know what the boat looks like from inside so who cares where you see me on it. I'm beginning to see you on the same boat with some others as well so we are even on the boats issue.



                                                                                              One things for certain. Anyone whose into stereotyping and answering questions for others sure isn't what the solution needs. When it does work itself out people with your views should stay on the sideline. They certainly shouldn;t be put in any place to lead on an issue they have no clue about (no matter what their fantasies).
                                                                                              How are your hip boots working out?
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                                                                                • Profile picture of the author ThomM
                                                                                  Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                                                                                  and hence the apples and oranges. I'm sorry but life just doesn't work that way. You cannot look at a situation in one case (probably smaller scale as well) say this worked here so it should wok everywhere. Situations and peoples are different. NYPD showed no signs of being by any such side..
                                                                                  Mike I noticed you ignored this part of my post.
                                                                                  What's more important, trying to find racism or excepting it exists and moving forward to end it.
                                                                                  Myself I except it exists and would like to move forward to end it.
                                                                                  Do you want to answer that?
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                                                                        • Profile picture of the author seasoned
                                                                          Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                                                                          Heres the thing Thom. As Mayor the police are not his sole constituency. He clearlythinks race is an issue and he talked about a conversation he had wih his son in an interview. In the real world being. Mayor does not put you in a position to eradicate racism in any group while keeping it under cover. So he spoke his mind.
                                                                          As I said earlier, and ThomM basically implied, one of the Mayor's jobs is the chief of police's boss! YEP, his BOSS! He is supposed to manage problems like this. If it is as bad as he claims, and he lets it go, HE FAILED!!!! The mayor is basically a MANAGER! That means managing all the departments under him. And one is the POLICE! Since the police are too much to manage, there is another kind of manager, the chief of police. And he has managers below him. If anyone up the line sees a problem, they should at least discuss it with those below them. Is there racism or some other preference affecting ******EVERY****** demographic? OF COURSE! But people should work TOGETHER to see that it doesn't get to the point of harassment, framing, railroading, etc....

                                                                          As for the talk with his son? In a way, that is EVIL! I mean he talks with his son, and of course creates a racist person. BAD! Does it help anyone? NO! He discusses it publically, and furthers racism, and exacerbates the problem. Does THAT help? NO! But if he talks with the chief of police, and gets him to find those that apparently ARE causing the problem, the bad guys can be fired, and they can get better guys in, and it will be better for ALL!

                                                                          Of course, if a guy attacks the police, or he is big and resists arrest and can't handle it, etc.... it is unfortunate if they get killed, but they did kind of ask for it. I would say the same if they were white.

                                                                          Okay you disagree with that but how in the world does that equate to - you are responsible for the deaths of two police officers?? By that rationality anyone anywhere that holds to a group having any racists among them then qualifies for culpability should someone end up harming them for any reason.
                                                                          He spread the racism, and said things to support such acts. And at least one point people were chanting in the streets that they wanted cops dead NOW!

                                                                          Sure I could see that for those who actually incited violence but the Mayor didn't call for any of that.Instead whats really happening is the police force unions are trying to pin it on him because he didn't agree with them or just blindly back them as the police.
                                                                          If the mayor disagrees, and even has outside people go to each department and look through the records, which he CAN do, and has them bring the police up on charges, which they CAN do, and prosecutes the guilty, some police officers might not like it, but even THEY probably won't have the show they did.

                                                                          It WASN'T because he was against the cops! It was because of the incitement and the open accusations. If he TRULY believed that, one of his jobs is to try his dangdest to FIX IT!

                                                                          Question is ...why don't we do this after every shooting , killing spree done by an emotionally imbalanced person? Somethings set off the guys at columbine, the shipyard shootings, the midnight Batman shootings but in those cases we say well they were imbalanced and mentally ill. Its not enough here because people wish to make a racial and political statement out of it so in THIS case we listen to the ramblings of the killer and take it as rational and say okay since the madman is actually rational then lets find someone else to blame..
                                                                          Frankly, I have said they should find out WHY those people were that way, etc... As I said, it is better to take care of the CAUSE rather than try to fix the effects. So if it is racism, get rid of them. If it is crazy people, either figure out how to make them sane, or keep them out of society.

                                                                          Steve
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                                                                          • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                                                                            Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

                                                                            As for the talk with his son? In a way, that is EVIL! I mean he talks with his son, and of course creates a racist person. BAD! Does it help anyone? NO! He discusses it publically, and furthers racism, and exacerbates the problem.
                                                                            Steve (I think thats your name)I basically just read you in small quantities nowadays and skim the rest due to your cap screaming rantings but sorry you are the absolute last person I would be taking any lessons from in avoiding making racists and the reason is apparent to quite a few people reading your past views on the subject.

                                                                            But I must say you have outdone all your other silliness on race with the above quote. I don't think it needs much rebuttal but to state it over again as most sane people will get how unhinged the logic is

                                                                            If a parent informs their children that there are people who wrongfully judge people based on skin color they are being evil and will make their children racist.

                                                                            You must wish every day that awards exist for convoluted thinking. You'd be rich..

                                                                            Richie Rich kind of rich

                                                                            . it is unfortunate if they get killed, but they did kind of ask for it. I would say the same if they were white.
                                                                            huh huh sure you would .

                                                                            Meanwhile every one that ever argues with a police office but never throws a punch or anything is just asking to be killed and the more you don't talk about a social problem publicly the more likely it is to go away. Thank God there is less and less of your kind of thinking with every year that passes..
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                                                                            • Profile picture of the author seasoned
                                                                              Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                                                                              Meanwhile every one that ever argues with a police office but never throws a punch or anything is just asking to be killed and the more you don't talk about a social problem publicly the more likely it is to go away. Thank God there is less and less of your kind of thinking with every year that passes..
                                                                              I never said don't disagree, and/or voice your opinion. ARGUE is something you might not want to do in such a confrontation. Even police officers in kind of small public settings, like working at a mall, or in a traffic class will tell you that. EVEN if everyone in earshot is WHITE. If it is a ticket, the charges can be exacerbated and he may make a POINT to make the court hearing. If he doesn't make it, at least on a minor offense, and you are there, you generally WIN. But the dockets are RIFE with people that are there because they argued. The same goes if you are being arrested for dope, stopped on the street, arrested for tax fraud, etc...

                                                                              And brown did MORE than throw a punch. Eric was confrontational which is LIKE throwing a punch. If brown never stole from that convenience store, would they have killed him? If eric didn't fight so hard to avoid arrest, would HE have died?

                                                                              And you can TALK about a social problem. But that is ****NOT**** what is happening HERE, not by a long shot. People go out and riot on the streets and even shoot cops. Meanwhile, you have people "in authority" that are trying to stir up race riots. YEAH "thank god (things are changing)"(sarc) Maybe soon we'll have another civil war.

                                                                              Steve
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                                                                • Profile picture of the author Joe Mobley
                                                                  Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                                                                  If you think any of us are going to put our sons in harms way in order to give into the fantasy that there are no racist cops then you are deluded.
                                                                  If you think that police should place their lives in harms way by running into a burning building that the mayor help set on fire, then you are deluded.

                                                                  Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                                                                  Mayor earned some serious father of the year kudos with those fathers -
                                                                  Oh yea, the Father of the Year judges are counting his votes now:

                                                                  ...

                                                                  One

                                                                  ...



                                                                  Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                                                                  We'd rather everyone turn their backs than see our sons on youtube videos saying they can't breath under a non choke hold choke hold.
                                                                  Perhaps a better conversation than "If you break the law, don't get caught" would be "Don't break the law in the first place."


                                                                  If you needs some tips on raising boys, this may help.


                                                                  Joe Mobley
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                                                                  • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                                                                    Originally Posted by Joe Mobley View Post

                                                                    If you think that police should place their lives in harms way by running into a burning building that the mayor help set on fire, then you are deluded.
                                                                    Your analogies are inept Joe. They equate to nothing in the real world

                                                                    Perhaps a better conversation than "If you break the law, don't get caught" would be "Don't break the law in the first place."
                                                                    better than what exactly?? since that wasn't the conversation. It wasn't how to not get caught as you made up in your mind but how you interact with police.


                                                                    If you needs some tips on raising boys, this may help.
                                                                    I don't but if thats a personal call for help I'm here for you man.
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                                                                    • Profile picture of the author Joe Mobley
                                                                      Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                                                                      Your analogies are inept Joe. They equate to nothing in the real world
                                                                      Coming from you, that's a complement.

                                                                      Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                                                                      I don't but if thats a personal call for help I'm here for you man.
                                                                      No thanks, I deserve better.

                                                                      Joe Mobley
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                                                                      • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                                                                        Originally Posted by Joe Mobley View Post

                                                                        No thanks, I deserve better.
                                                                        Just as long as you get whatever help you need I will be happy for you Joe
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                                                            • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                                                              Originally Posted by Thomas Belknap View Post

                                                              This type of response from the police shows the problem with police. They are above the law in many ways and they just proven it yet again. They shouldn't be and that is why many people don't trust them.
                                                              To me, it just shows human nature. People that are attracted to be police are very herd oriented, just like military people. They are a member of a tribe. They act as a group.

                                                              What would have shocked me, would have been if all the cops turned their backs except for 5, in amongst the rest. But peer pressure is very powerful in these groups. So they act as one body.

                                                              They are their own small community. And now, they have a common enemy. The fact that the Mayor isn't really their enemy, doesn't matter.

                                                              I haven't really followed the "Why" of the disrespect shown...but the behavior is interesting.
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                                                              • Profile picture of the author Tom B
                                                                Banned
                                                                Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                                                                To me, it just shows human nature. People that are attracted to be police are very herd oriented, just like military people. They are a member of a tribe. They act as a group.

                                                                What would have shocked me, would have been if all the cops turned their backs except for 5, in amongst the rest. But peer pressure is very powerful in these groups. So they act as one body.

                                                                Thy are their own small community. And now, they have a common enemy. The fat that the Mayer isn't really their enemy, doesn't matter.

                                                                I haven't really followed the "Why" of the disrespect shown...but the behavior is interesting.
                                                                Interesting you posted this Claude, there was a news story about the funeral of one of the officers killed. The story revolved around cops turning their backs on the mayor again. It showed a picture of the cops doing so but in the pictures only part of the cops had their backs turned while the other cops were facing forward.

                                                                Too bad they couldn't drop it for the funeral. I always hated when people try to use a sad event like an officer slain to push their agendas.

                                                                Anyway, I don't think John Mayer is their enemy either.
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                                                                • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                                                                  They are a member of a tribe. They act as a group.
                                                                  You find that attitude in almost any dangerous line of work that involves the actions of more than one person.

                                                                  In their mind, the Mayor spoke out AGAINST them. He showed no respect for NYPD in his initial comments and did sound like he was siding with protestors rather than with those under his command. The Mayor was playing politics and went too far.

                                                                  That is poor management if nothing else. You might want to make changes in how police handle resistance - but you do it with training...rather than dissing them through public statements.
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                                                                  • Profile picture of the author Tom B
                                                                    Banned
                                                                    Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                                                                    Poor management if nothing else. You might want to make changes in how police handle resistance - but you do it with training...rather than dissing them through public statements.
                                                                    I generally agree if it's a case that the mayor has any type of power over how things are ran. Looking at what is happening, I'm wondering who is in charge and I don't think it is the mayor.
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                                                                • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
                                                                  Banned
                                                                  Originally Posted by Thomas Belknap View Post

                                                                  Interesting you posted this Claude, there was a news story about the funeral of one of the officers killed. The story revolved around cops turning their backs on the mayor again. It showed a picture of the cops doing so but in the pictures only part of the cops had their backs turned while the other cops were facing forward.
                                                                  They showed a photo on 'Morning Joe' this morning of approximately 100 cops with their backs turned toward the mayor - all except for one lone officer.

                                                                  Three words: 'Profile In Courage." Now that's a NYC cop that I can respect. I'm now at one and counting!

                                                                  Cheers. - Frank

                                                                  P.S. This also directly pertains to what Claude posted: What would have shocked me, would have been if all the cops turned their backs except for 5, in amongst the rest.
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                                                                  • Profile picture of the author Tom B
                                                                    Banned
                                                                    Originally Posted by BigFrank View Post

                                                                    They showed a photo on 'Morning Joe' this morning of approximately 100 cops with their backs turned toward the mayor - all except for one lone officer.

                                                                    Three words: 'Profile In Courage." Now that's a NYC cop that I can respect. I'm now at one and counting!

                                                                    Cheers. - Frank

                                                                    P.S. This also directly pertains to what Claude posted: What would have shocked me, would have been if all the cops turned their backs except for 5, in amongst the rest.
                                                                    Yeah, it looked like more but it could be the picture they showed and how it was taken. It was memorable,though, because some of the cops broke the "tribe" to look forward. Too bad this had to be done at the officer's funeral.
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                                                                    • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
                                                                      Banned
                                                                      Originally Posted by Thomas Belknap View Post

                                                                      Yeah, it looked like more but it could be the picture they showed and how it was taken. It was memorable,though, because some of the cops broke the "tribe" to look forward. Too bad this had to be done at the officer's funeral.
                                                                      Well, even photo editors can be guilty of having an agenda. Pan the image a bit to the right, maybe everyone has their back turned. A little to the left and there could have been dozens that didn't. It's all in the cropping. Showing just one had high impact, but we'll never know the the facts of that particular image unless we see the entire, unedited image. Of course, the photographer may also have an agenda and looked for the precise portion of the assemblage to portray a scene that may not be accurate in its totality.

                                                                      As far as turning their backs after Braxton politely asked them not to, shows that they don't even respect him. A purely selfish act that disrespected their fallen comrade. This is not something you do at a funeral unless you put yourself above all else. They need to be fired and to never even be allowed to work as dog catchers.

                                                                      Police don't deserve respect simply because they don the uniform. Respect is something that you earn by the way you conduct yourself while in uniform. I have spoken to friends in family in NYC over the past 2 weeks and their opinion of the NYPD has been irrevocably changed, almost overnight. They don't trust them, they fear them and they doubt that those feeling will subside anytime soon, if at all.

                                                                      My Hispanic stepson was 12 years old when I gave him 'the talk.' He's 32 now and I plan to call him and give him an updated version of that talk, all over again. He lives in Staten Island and although he has never seen the inside of a police station, I fear for his safety. One wrong look, one wrong perception of a movement - and he could wind up dead. How could I ever live with myself if I harbor this fear and never took the time to communicate it to him? As someone previously stated, that's nothing more than the height of bad parenting, regardless of the age of your son.

                                                                      The NYPD has become its own worst enemy and, I fear, an enemy of the people it has sworn to serve and protect. That social pact has been shattered.

                                                                      Cheers. - Frank
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                                                                      • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                                                                        Originally Posted by BigFrank View Post

                                                                        My Hispanic stepson was 12 years old when I gave him 'the talk.' He's 32 now and I plan to call him and give him an updated version of that talk, all over again. He lives in Staten Island and although he has never seen the inside of a police station, I fear for his safety. One wrong look, one wrong perception of a movement - and he could wind up dead. How could I ever live with myself if I harbor this fear and never took the time to communicate it to him?
                                                                        Oh no you didn't??? You have now entered Steve's list of evil people and earned

                                                                        The Wrath of Caps.
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                                                                        • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
                                                                          Banned
                                                                          Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                                                                          Oh no you didn't??? You have now entered Steve's list of evil people
                                                                          A distinction that I wear with unbounded pride. Strike up the band!
                                                                          and earned The Wrath of Caps.
                                                                          I ain't afraid on no steenkin' CAPS! I AM IMPERVIOUS!

                                                                          Cheers - Frank
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                                                                          • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                                                                            When it comes to "backs turned" and "backs not turned" yesterday - do we know which were NEW YORK cops and which were not? There were police from all over the country there yesterday - all in uniform. Could you tell from the videos/newsfeeds which were NYPD? I couldn't and wondered about that.

                                                                            Tim - That's a good article - but only if you read all of it. I can understand what they are saying - but that's only 25 people that were asked - or maybe it's only 25 that said they had a problem...can't tell.

                                                                            it's easy to say it's racial profiling - but is it surprising it would happen when you consider other parts of that article? Not saying it's right because it isn't but not hard to see why it can happen.

                                                                            "It makes good headlines to say this is occurring, but I don't think you can validate it until you look into the circumstances they were stopped in," said Bernard Parks, the former chief of the Los Angeles Police Department, who is African American.
                                                                            "Now if you want to get into the essence of why certain groups are stopped more than others, then you only need to go to the crime reports and see which ethnic groups are listed more as suspects. That's the crime data the officers are living with."
                                                                            Blacks made up 73 percent of the shooting perpetrators in New York in 2011 and were 23 percent of the population.
                                                                            If most murders were committed by people with mustaches, it wouldn't be long before people with mustaches were stopped and questioned more than people without mustaches. It would not be fair - but it's not hard to see why it could happen.
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                                                                            • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
                                                                              I read the whole article Kay. About the part you quoted there was this added: "A number of academics believe those statistics are potentially skewed because police over-focus on black communities, while ignoring crime in other areas. They also note that being stopped as a suspect does not automatically equate to criminality. Nearly 90 percent of blacks stopped by the NYPD, for example, are found not to be engaged in any crime."

                                                                              Important point in the article imo:

                                                                              Still, social psychologists from Stanford and Yale universities and John Jay College of Criminal Justice have conducted research - including the 2004 study "Seeing Black: Race, Crime and Visual Processing" - showing there is an implicit racial bias in the American psyche that correlates black maleness with crime.
                                                                              I think this is what the Mayor was referring to when he talked about centuries of racism. He was talking about racism in society as a whole, not just the NYPD.

                                                                              This is very revealing and relevant:

                                                                              John Jay professor Delores Jones-Brown cited a 2010 New York State Task Force report on police-on-police shootings - the first such inquiry of its kind - that found that in the previous 15 years, officers of color had suffered the highest fatalities in encounters with police officers who mistook them for criminals.

                                                                              There's evidence that aggressive policing in the NYPD is intensifying, according to data from the New York City Comptroller.

                                                                              Police misconduct claims - including lawsuits against police for using the kind of excessive force that killed Garner - have risen 214 percent since 2000, while the amount the city paid out has risen 75 percent in the same period, to $64.4 million in fiscal year 2012, the last year for which data is available.
                                                                              So, there is growing NYPD misconduct all around and it seems to be focused on minorities. That seems to be the main problem in all this.
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                                                                              • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
                                                                                Banned
                                                                                Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

                                                                                Police misconduct claims - including lawsuits against police for using the kind of excessive force that killed Garner - have risen 214 percent since 2000, while the amount the city paid out has risen 75 percent in the same period, to $64.4 million in fiscal year 2012, the last year for which data is available.
                                                                                Well, now - that little bit of info certainly goes a very long way toward explaining why the cops need to write so many of those parking tickets that many love to boo-hoo over.

                                                                                You can't make this stuff up. lol

                                                                                Cheers. - Frank
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                                                                                • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                                                                                  Originally Posted by BigFrank View Post

                                                                                  Well, now - that little bit of info certainly goes a very long way toward explaining why the cops need to write so many of those parking tickets that many love to boo-hoo over.

                                                                                  It doesn't count. Tim blew it. There were no charts.
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                                                                                  • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
                                                                                    Banned
                                                                                    Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                                                                                    It doesn't count. Tim blew it. There were no charts.
                                                                                    I have NEVER put any creedence in the charts and graphs that are posted, here. They are no different than the statistics and quotes that folks pull out of their butt to bolster their position on any topic. They realize that no one truly cares that strongly about anything posted in an Internet off-topic forum and they're not going to do any research to attempt to verify the info. That is, of course unless they are even more demented than anyone that would post an endless stream of info in an effort to overpower you by the sheer volume of the content. You see that here, often. When you can't come up with an intelligent thought of your own, quote others, post statistics and post your charts and graphs to support your position. That beats, god forbid, that one should every be wrong about anything.

                                                                                    Hell, I can make you a chart or graph in Photoshop or Excel in minutes. I never have, because I have never needed to.

                                                                                    Cheers. - Frank
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                                                                                    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                                                                                      Originally Posted by BigFrank View Post

                                                                                      I have NEVER put any creedence in the charts and graphs that are posted, here.
                                                                                      Who care about credence?? The point is they are purdy and purdy matters in the real world..
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                                                                                      • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
                                                                                        Banned
                                                                                        Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                                                                                        Who care about credence?? The point is they are purdy and purdy matters in the real world..
                                                                                        Reminds me of my ex.wife. She wasn't pretty and she wasn't ugly. She was both. She was pretty ugly!

                                                                                        Cheers. - Frank
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                                                                                        • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                                                                                          Originally Posted by BigFrank View Post

                                                                                          Reminds me of my ex.wife. She wasn't pretty and she wasn't ugly. She was both. She was pretty ugly!

                                                                                          Cheers. - Frank

                                                                                          Pity...Judging by that avatar you were the perfect match
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                                                                                          • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
                                                                                            Banned
                                                                                            Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                                                                                            Pity...Judging by that avatar you were the perfect match
                                                                                            Don't hate me because I'm beautiful. We all have our cross to bear.

                                                                                            Cheers. - Frank

                                                                                            P.S. The avatar stays. :-)
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                                                                                            • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                                                                                              Originally Posted by BigFrank View Post

                                                                                              Don't hate me because I'm beautiful. We all have our cross to bear.
                                                                                              I'm not hating. I am pitching a reconciliation. The horror movie residuals the offsprings would generate would be staggering not to mention what they would be able to charge from hiccups cured at their appearance and what they would get paid by dry cleaners near stadiums.

                                                                                              This is a marketing board after all. got to work the opportunities.
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                                                                                              • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
                                                                                                Banned
                                                                                                Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                                                                                                I'm not hating. I am pitching a reconciliation.
                                                                                                Reconciliation? That would indicate that we've had a falling out. I don't recall any past tussling with you (although I do suffer from profound memory-loss).
                                                                                                The horror movie residuals the offsprings would generate would be staggering not to mention what they would be able to charge from hiccups cured at their appearance and what they would get paid by dry cleaners near stadiums.
                                                                                                OK, wait a minute. None of that sounds very flattering, so I'm confused.
                                                                                                This is a marketing board after all. got to work the opportunities.
                                                                                                Well, your in the swamp. Nothing we do down here has any basis if fact, as I'm sure your have learned first-hand, today. All that matters down here is the desire to steadfastly defend one's position, regardless of how indefensible the position is. It gets tiring but it does build character. As I'm sure you also learned today, there are some folks that can use an intense regimen of character building.

                                                                                                Cheers. - Frank
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                                                                                                • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                                                                                                  Originally Posted by BigFrank View Post

                                                                                                  Reconciliation? That would indicate that we've had a falling out. I don't recall any past tussling with you
                                                                                                  BF just so there are no misunderstandings. It wasn't a reconciliation with me it was another wife and avatar joke (reconciliation between the wife and the avatar -not the real you). As far as I know we are cool.
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                                                                                                  • Profile picture of the author ThomM
                                                                                                    lol.....the only thing more entertaining than ignorance is someone trying to dress it up as brilliance and showing more ignorance. Work it!
                                                                                                    Something you're a master at.
                                                                                                    Now come back with your insults to show everyone how brilliant you are
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                                                                                                    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                                                                                                      Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

                                                                                                      to show everyone how brilliant you are
                                                                                                      How is it even possible that you still have not learned that already? .
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                                                                                                      • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
                                                                                                        Banned
                                                                                                        Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                                                                                                        How is it even possible that you still have not learned that already? .
                                                                                                        Tell me about it. I have that same problem. lol

                                                                                                        Cheers. - Frank
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                                                                                                  • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
                                                                                                    Banned
                                                                                                    Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                                                                                                    BF just so there are no misunderstandings. It wasn't a reconciliation with me it was another wife and avatar joke (reconciliation between the wife and the avatar -not the real you). As far as I know we are cool.
                                                                                                    Got it. No way I didn't think we wuzz cool. :-)

                                                                                                    Cheers. - Frank
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                                                                            • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                                                                              Originally Posted by Thomas Belknap View Post

                                                                              This type of response from the police shows the problem with police. They are above the law in many ways and they just proven it yet again. They shouldn't be and that is why many people don't trust them.
                                                                              To me, it just shows human nature. People that are attracted to be police are very herd oriented, just like military people. They are a member of a tribe. They act as a group.

                                                                              What would have shocked me, would have been if all the cops turned their backs except for 5, in amongst the rest. But peer pressure is very powerful in these groups. So they act as one body.

                                                                              They are their own small community. And now, they have a common enemy. The fact that the Mayor isn't really their enemy, doesn't matter.

                                                                              I haven't really followed the "Why" of the disrespect shown...but the behavior is interesting.

                                                                              Originally Posted by Thomas Belknap View Post

                                                                              Yeah, it looked like more but it could be the picture they showed and how it was taken. It was memorable,though, because some of the cops broke the "tribe" to look forward. Too bad this had to be done at the officer's funeral.



                                                                              Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                                                                              When it comes to "backs turned" and "backs not turned" yesterday - do we know which were NEW YORK cops and which were not? There were police from all over the country there yesterday - all in uniform. Could you tell from the videos/newsfeeds which were NYPD? I couldn't and wondered about that.
                                                                              .
                                                                              Sooooo...It's possible that the NYC cops were all in agreement with their actions, and the outliers were not.

                                                                              But the far more important thing to take from this...is that "Claude could have been right".

                                                                              I think we are all in agreement that this issue, is all about me. Me, Me, Me!
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                                                                              • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
                                                                                Banned
                                                                                Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                                                                                I think we are all in agreement that this issue, is all about me. Me, Me, Me!
                                                                                Well, only if, by "Me, Me, Me" - you are referring to Me, Me, Me!

                                                                                Cheers. - Frank
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                                                                  • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                                                                    Originally Posted by BigFrank View Post

                                                                    They showed a photo on 'Morning Joe' this morning of approximately 100 cops with their backs turned toward the mayor - all except for one lone officer.

                                                                    Three words: 'Profile In Courage." Now that's a NYC cop that I can respect. I'm now at one and counting!
                                                                    That's the guy that interests me. Maybe he's just contrarian by nature. But not allowing hundreds of your fellow officers to determine how you think and act, is bold.

                                                                    I read this somewhere; "The opposite of courage isn't cowardice. It's conformity". And I agree.
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                                                                • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                                                                  Originally Posted by Thomas Belknap View Post

                                                                  Interesting you posted this Claude, there was a news story about the funeral of one of the officers killed. The story revolved around cops turning their backs on the mayor again. It showed a picture of the cops doing so but in the pictures only part of the cops had their backs turned while the other cops were facing forward.

                                                                  Too bad they couldn't drop it for the funeral. I always hated when people try to use a sad event like an officer slain to push their agendas.

                                                                  Anyway, I don't think John Mayer is their enemy either.
                                                                  HA! Fast typing, and not reading my own post...is the enemy here.

                                                                  And the part of your post that I bolded?
                                                                  Ahem....never post any fact, that doesn't completely agree with something I said. I won't stand for it.
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                                                              • Profile picture of the author socialentry
                                                                Banned
                                                                Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                                                                To me, it just shows human nature. People that are attracted to be police are very herd oriented, just like military people. They are a member of a tribe. They act as a group.
                                                                But how about the military people that do military coups.
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                                • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
                                  Banned
                                  Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

                                  THERE! I FIXED it for you!

                                  Steve
                                  Steve - stop responding to my posts. I though that you had permanently placed me on 'ignore,' but I can understand your desire for enlightenment, so I guess you abandoned that plan. While I would love to engage you with intellectual discourse at your level of comprehension, if I said that I had awakened this morning with a desire to have half of my brain removed, I'd be as disingenuous as you usually are.

                                  Go in peace, my son. :-)

                                  Cheers. - Frank

                                  P.S. Yes, I realize that you, too are incapable of NOT responding further and that you also have the infantile need to get in the last word. You'll understand if I don't engage you any further. Just remember that your king is watching you and hates any perceived competition for his title. lol
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                                  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
                                    Originally Posted by BigFrank View Post

                                    Steve - stop responding to my posts. I though that you had permanently placed me on 'ignore,'
                                    WHY would you think that?

                                    but I can understand your desire for enlightenment, so I guess you abandoned that plan.
                                    As I said, "WHAT PLAN"?

                                    Go in peace, my son. :-)
                                    YEP, I'm NOT your son!

                                    P.S. Yes, I realize that you, too are incapable of NOT responding further and that you also have the infantile need to get in the last word. You'll understand if I don't engage you any further. Just remember that your king is watching you and hates any perceived competition for his title. lol
                                    GOOD, then I get the last word, as you claim I need to. As for the guy that think he is my king? Hopefully he will be gone before the US slides much further.

                                    Steve
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                    • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
                      Banned
                      Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

                      Those nasty criminals how dare they park in a spot after the meter ran out.
                      The nerve of people to not want laws enforced that are only meant to put money in the city coffers.
                      What you're calling criminal behavior is stuff that everyday people do everyday. Not putting money in a parking meter or getting back before you're time expired. Standing on the street corner having a beer with friends. If stuff like that is criminal behavior, then everyone in this country is a criminal.
                      Funny, but unless I'm mistaken that's what former mayor Rudy Giuliani referred to as 'broken windows' policing, enforcing the smallest laws to set a tone of zero-tolerance. This is the very concept that the right credits with saving NYC from its decades long downward slide.

                      You can't have it both ways, gang. You either want law and order or you don't. If you don't like the laws, change them. If you're going to serve your city as a 'law enforcement officer,' then do your job or quit. Otherwise you are just stealing your paycheck from the city and its residents and you are nothing more than an embarrassment to your badge and the oath that you raised your right hand and swore to abide by. In my book, that makes you a 'bad cop!'

                      Cheers. - Frank
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                  • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                    erics crime was victimless,
                    They argue it because it suits their agenda.

                    The shop owners who called to complain about Garner did not think the crime was victimless. Those store owners are NOT breaking a law but thought Garner's presence outside their store intimidated customers and he WAS breaking a law. It was a law he's been arrested for many times - he knew better.

                    If citizens don't want those laws - they need to elect pols that will get rid of the laws.
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                    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
                      Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                      They argue it because it suits their agenda.

                      The shop owners who called to complain about Garner did not think the crime was victimless. Those store owners are NOT breaking a law but thought Garner's presence outside their store intimidated customers and he WAS breaking a law. It was a law he's been arrested for many times - he knew better.

                      If citizens don't want those laws - they need to elect pols that will get rid of the laws.
                      Yeah, there ARE licensing laws, shelter laws, property laws, etc.... Garner probably had NO shelter setup, and THAT would have to be sanctioned. He wasn't licensed. He violated the stores property, and likely public also. HECK, there is likely a sales tax on cigarettes ALSO, and he didn't have a permit for THAT. Most of those laws have a feature of enforcement. They enforce things to limit victimization. OTHERS render complying businesses victims by exposing them to fees that the law breakers don't comply with. So you could say that even something like not paying sales tax is NOT a victimless crime.

                      Steve
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                    • Profile picture of the author ThomM
                      Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                      They argue it because it suits their agenda.

                      The shop owners who called to complain about Garner did not think the crime was victimless. Those store owners are NOT breaking a law but thought Garner's presence outside their store intimidated customers and he WAS breaking a law. It was a law he's been arrested for many times - he knew better.

                      If citizens don't want those laws - they need to elect pols that will get rid of the laws.
                      Stores in the city sell loose cigs. themselves, at least once a year the cops do stings to catch them. After the last tax hike store where selling loose pipe tobacco and tubes. They also had rolling machines that you could use to roll your own. The city shut those down also. Don't be fooled for a minute thinking the stores there aren't doing everything they can to beat these taxes and laws.
                      In the city and rest of the state people buy tobacco labeled for pipes and roll their own to beat the taxes. Two packs of cigs cost me $18. For that same $18 I can but a bag of pipe tobacco that is the same as cig tobacco, just cut a little longer and two boxes of tubes. That's 400 cigs for the same price as buying 40 cigs by the pack.
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                      • Profile picture of the author seasoned
                        Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

                        Stores in the city sell loose cigs. themselves, at least once a year the cops do stings to catch them. After the last tax hike store where selling loose pipe tobacco and tubes. They also had rolling machines that you could use to roll your own. The city shut those down also. Don't be fooled for a minute thinking the stores there aren't doing everything they can to beat these taxes and laws.
                        In the city and rest of the state people buy tobacco labeled for pipes and roll their own to beat the taxes. Two packs of cigs cost me $18. For that same $18 I can but a bag of pipe tobacco that is the same as cig tobacco, just cut a little longer and two boxes of tubes. That's 400 cigs for the same price as buying 40 cigs by the pack.
                        As far as selling singles, are the stores selling taxed cigarettes? If so, it is different. For the pipe v. cigarette, who knows. They may even have done it partially to help the pipe market. But cigarettes are AUTOMATICALLY going to be more expensive, and the government would want more tax because of that. It is like a part I heard of recently.... $1.5(build cost), $5(wholesale cost), $25(retail cost).

                        Steve
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                • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                  Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                  I think the Mayor and the public set those rules. They called for "dead cops"
                  Another ridiculous accusation Kay. When did the Mayor call for dead cops??

                  and for those claiming only victimless crimes

                  Drug arrests by cops assigned to the NYPD’s Organized Crime Control Bureau — which are part of the overall number — dropped by 84 percent, from 382 to 63.
                  I don't think the drug trade qualifies for victimless crimes. If anything this confirms theres a cultural problem in the NYPD. It would be better (for them) if the crimes held some sense of danger. They could claim there was a fear factor . Now they pretty much will be seen as using the excuse that a deranged person shot some cops to punish the Mayor for backing free speech and seeing real issues where real issues are. Only the unreasonable are claiming or buying the Mayor called for dead cops.

                  Meanwhile even petty crmes are violations of the law. If you are going to not enforce the laws you are paid to enforce then perhaps the Mayor should think of a virtual pay cut or virtual firings.
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                • Profile picture of the author Joe Mobley
                  Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                  Free speech is one thing - but allowing protestors to loot and steal and to call for death of cops...is over the line.
                  You're being gracious.


                  Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                  Many of the protests are being organized up by various groups for their own agenda. These are not spontaneous 'protests' -
                  Let's call them what they are, American terrorist groups.

                  Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                  and this could get very ugly very fast.
                  With dead policemen, we are past "very ugly".

                  Joe Mobley
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              • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
                Banned
                Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

                Ahh that's not a victim less crime Frank.
                Thank your for making my point. By not enforcing 'victimless' crimes you create the opportunity for great tragedy.

                I'm happy you are able see far enough past your own nose to grasp the concept.

                Cheers. - Frank
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          • Profile picture of the author seasoned
            Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

            They're simply not enforcing victimless crimes like what was stated in the article and what I quoted.
            Yeah not getting a parking ticket always leads to anarchy
            MANY would argue that erics crime was victimless, even though he should have done it ANYWHERE else, since doing this in front of a store that is a competitor following the rules is crass and unfair competition.

            Steve
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        • Profile picture of the author Joe Mobley
          Originally Posted by BigFrank View Post

          We'll see how mad they get when the situation deteriorates into borderline anarchy.
          You mean like the anarchy that has been orchestrated across the country by al "charlatan" and his groups over the last few months?


          Originally Posted by BigFrank View Post

          I wonder who is setting the rules for picking and choosing which laws are enforced and which are ignored?
          If recent history is any indication, Eric Holder and Barack Obama. Of course in matters of race, guidance from al "charlatan".


          Originally Posted by BigFrank View Post

          Sounds like a perfect plan to me, if you are opposed to law and order, including the laws you may not like.
          Or write an executive order.

          Originally Posted by BigFrank View Post

          A real bunch of deep-thinkers. lol

          Cheers. - Frank
          No, more like zombies...


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          • Profile picture of the author Tom B
            Banned
            Originally Posted by Joe Mobley View Post

            You mean like the anarchy that has been orchestrated across the country by al "charlatan" and his groups over the last few months?

            Joe Mobley
            I just read an article talking about companies paying Al to stay away. I think they referred to them as "consulting fees." haha
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            • Profile picture of the author Joe Mobley
              My personal opinion is that al sharpton has handed the White House to the 2016 Republican Presidential Candidate.

              Of course, never underestimate the GOP's ability to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

              Joe Mobley

              Originally Posted by Thomas Belknap View Post

              I just read an article talking about companies paying Al to stay away. I think they referred to them as "consulting fees." haha
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by BigFrank View Post

      Now there's a sure-fire way to garner respect from the public at large. Those folks need an image consultant.

      Cheers. - Frank
      Or they can have their key ANTI image terrorist QUIT! HIS name is Bill De Blasio! YEP, THIS GUY: Bill de Blasio - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Frankly, I wonder if he thinks the police are going to care about helping his family out.

      If I were the police, I WOULDN'T answer a call to his home, etc..., and I would ALSO not give ANY of them the benefit of a doubt. If I stopped his son for running a red light, for example, I would check EVERY window, and every visible area, and if I saw anything that could be suspicious, I would insist that he agree to a limited search. Police DO have that option, and often don't use it. If he refused, I might have the car towed, and arrest him on suspicion.

      He accused the police of a felony, murder, hate crimes, racism, etc... BTW as I understand it, MAYOR Bill de Blasio is basically the boss of the chief of police who, of course, deals with the police and the union.

      Steve
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      • Profile picture of the author ThomM
        Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

        Or they can have their key ANTI image terrorist QUIT! HIS name is Bill De Blasio! YEP, THIS GUY: Bill de Blasio - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Frankly, I wonder if he thinks the police are going to care about helping his family out.

        If I were the police, I WOULDN'T answer a call to his home, etc..., and I would ALSO not give ANY of them the benefit of a doubt. If I stopped his son for running a red light, for example, I would check EVERY window, and every visible area, and if I saw anything that could be suspicious, I would insist that he agree to a limited search. Police DO have that option, and often don't use it. If he refused, I might have the car towed, and arrest him on suspicion.

        He accused the police of a felony, murder, hate crimes, racism, etc... BTW as I understand it, MAYOR Bill de Blasio is basically the boss of the chief of police who, of course, deals with the police and the union.

        Steve
        That's just stooping to a lower level then him.
        What they are doing now is not only the right action but it will put the people on their side in the end.
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        • Profile picture of the author seasoned
          Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

          That's just stooping to a lower level then him.
          What they are doing now is not only the right action but it will put the people on their side in the end.
          Actually, it ISN'T! The idea of not attending to their needs is simply doing what they basically said they want. REMEMBER, this guy told his son, who happens to be black, from what I heard, that the police are OUT for him. So maybe they should avoid him. If they do, GREAT!

          ON THE OTHER HAND, having said what they said, and endangering the cops and all, the cops should be free to not bother giving them the benefit of the doubt. A visual search, which is 100% legal, takes only a few seconds. The guys partner can do that while he or she writes the ticket for the offense. If they find nothing, the person is on their way unaware that anything happened. If they have something suspicious, and it is found, it is simply another law breaker being arrested!

          At least bill de blasio, etc... stand a chance that they won't be affected ONE BIT, and they won't be killed!

          And I am unaware of the case, etc... but FOR DECADES, and perhaps even from the start, they ruled that police WERE allowed to look through windows, and open car doors, etc.... for evidence of contraband. If they THEN have no just reason for suspicion, it stops there. If they find a suspicious item, they can take measures to validate it, though the owner would easily stop it there by allowing them to pull the item out, or showing what it is. If it is something like a gun, the person could be arrested.

          It is simply not unreasonable, and is a simple search. Until they physically look, and move things, or intrude on your personal property/space, it is ok.

          Steve
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      • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
        Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

        If I stopped his son for running a red light, for example, I would check EVERY window, and every visible area, and if I saw anything that could be suspicious, I would insist that he agree to a limited search. Police DO have that option, and often don't use it. If he refused, I might have the car towed, and arrest him on suspicion.
        I am absolutely without a shadow of a doubt sure YOU would which only proves Blasio's point. Sometimes people with your stated intentions do become police officers.

        MEANWHILE, all these people say he kept SAYING "I can't breath". He was KNOWN to have breathing problems, and other problems. By breathing, I mean capacity and efficiency and NOT the idea of "getting enough" air in his lungs. So it was a kind of "perfect storm".
        ROFL.....yes people you really heard it said. He was just having an asthma attack (allergic to concrete??). the arm around his neck had nothing to do with it . Just coincidental
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        • Profile picture of the author seasoned
          Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

          I am absolutely without a shadow of a doubt sure YOU would which only proves Blasio's point. Sometimes people with your stated intentions do become police officers.
          So are you saying we shouldn't hold politicians and their families to the same standard? Or are you saying this is bad ONLY because his sone happens to be black?

          ROFL.....yes people you really heard it said. He was just having an asthma attack (allergic to concrete??). the arm around his neck had nothing to do with it . Just coincidental
          ACTUALLY, asthma is NOT an allergy, though such symptoms could be caused by one. A lot of people are doing things that they really can't do for long, etc... unless they use a nebulizer or some such. One thing I DIDN'T like, that I heard little about, is that the police supposedly realized he was having trouble, and layed him on his side. They waited for the ambulance for 7 minutes. Apparently they decided NOT to do CPR because they supposedly believed he was breathing. IRONIC.

          Steve
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          • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
            Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

            So are you saying we shouldn't hold politicians and their families to the same standard? Or are you saying this is bad ONLY because his son happens to be black?
            Actually I am saying you brought his son into it because he is mixed and the Mayor dared to give his son fatherly advice and the rest of what I am saying the whole board knows because you have demonstrated time and time again

            ACTUALLY, asthma is NOT an allergy, though such symptoms could be caused by one.
            Which is what was said but you missed it. lecture neither needed nor even remotely informative...as for the nebulizer. Yes I missed it in the photos and videos...perhaps because it wasn't there. Mystery solved.
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  • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
    The NYC cops must also have a problem with the official ME of NYC or one of the burrows because from what I heard, that office classified Eric Garner's death as a homicide.

    Why do I have the feeling that some folks would seek to justify even something as ridiculous as the police shooting into a subway car full of people in order to get an unarmed person for simply jumping a turnstile?

    I wonder when the next NYPD scandal will erupt since they've had quite a few in the past?

    Everyone's got an agenda.

    I wonder what's the agenda of folks who support the police - no matter what the do - especially when it comes to their treatment of black folk in this country.
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

      The NYC cops must also have a problem with the official ME of NYC or one of the burrows because from what I heard, that office classified Eric Garner's death as a homicide.
      Even HE said that the windpipe, etc... wasn't crushed. The evidence HE presented basically said that he had NO way to say it was a chokehold. MEANWHILE, all these people say he kept SAYING "I can't breath". He was KNOWN to have breathing problems, and other problems. By breathing, I mean capacity and efficiency and NOT the idea of "getting enough" air in his lungs. So it was a kind of "perfect storm".

      [quote]Why do I have the feeling that some folks would seek to justify even something as ridiculous as the police shooting into a subway car full of people in order to get an unarmed person for simply jumping a turnstile?[quote]

      Because it fits your agenda, and you WANT to believe that. If they did that, the person doing so may even find the entire union(co workers, potential co workers, AND the actual entity called a union) ABANDONING them.

      I wonder what's the agenda of folks who support the police - no matter what the do - especially when it comes to their treatment of black folk in this country.
      NO, IT ISN'T! HECK, there are blacks in the police force. There are even entire departments(read the entire agency in an entire county) that are, or have been, run by blacks! HECK, WHITES get hurt by police ALSO. And YEP, other minorities do also! And I would LOVE to find fault with so much of this. If I see a problem, I will say it.

      And REMEMBER! I can't say this enough! ******YOU****** were the one that said we should ONLY trust the POLICE to protect us. Remember the old saying! "When every second counts, the police are only minutes away!"!

      Steve
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      • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
        [quote=seasoned;9787214]Even HE said that the windpipe, etc... wasn't crushed. The evidence HE presented basically said that he had NO way to say it was a chokehold. MEANWHILE, all these people say he kept SAYING "I can't breath". He was KNOWN to have breathing problems, and other problems. By breathing, I mean capacity and efficiency and NOT the idea of "getting enough" air in his lungs. So it was a kind of "perfect storm".

        [quote]Why do I have the feeling that some folks would seek to justify even something as ridiculous as the police shooting into a subway car full of people in order to get an unarmed person for simply jumping a turnstile?

        Because it fits your agenda, and you WANT to believe that.

        If they did that, the person doing so may even find the entire union(co workers, potential co workers, AND the actual entity called a union) ABANDONING them.



        NO, IT ISN'T! HECK, there are blacks in the police force. There are even entire departments(read the entire agency in an entire county) that are, or have been, run by blacks! HECK, WHITES get hurt by police ALSO. And YEP, other minorities do also! And I would LOVE to find fault with so much of this. If I see a problem, I will say it.

        And REMEMBER! I can't say this enough! ******YOU****** were the one that said we should ONLY trust the POLICE to protect us. Remember the old saying! "When every second counts, the police are only minutes away!"!

        Steve
        The ME ruled...

        ... "homicide".

        As another gleeful supporter of the trashing of Travon Martin, for example, you've already proven to me you are exactly the type of person I'm taking about.
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    • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
      Banned
      Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

      Why do I have the feeling that some folks would seek to justify even something as ridiculous as the police shooting into a subway car full of people in order to get an unarmed person for simply jumping a turnstile?
      Apparently you're not paying attention. In the 'new and improved' NYC, where the police decide which laws to enforce, turnstile jumping, a 'victimless crime' would never be enforced.

      Additionally, where does the MTA get their nerve to insist that individuals that use their service should be forced to pay to do so.

      Here's two words that the right loves to bandy about - 'slippery slope.' lol

      Cheers. - Frank
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      • Profile picture of the author seasoned
        Originally Posted by BigFrank View Post

        Apparently you're not paying attention. In the 'new and improved' NYC, where the police decide which laws to enforce, turnstile jumping, a 'victimless crime' would never be enforced.

        Additionally, where does the MTA get their nerve to insist that individuals that use their service should be forced to pay to do so.

        Here's two words that the right loves to bandy about - 'slippery slope.' lol

        Cheers. - Frank
        The idea of a slippery slope is a broadening of scope. There isn't any such thing here. The slippery slope would come if we say they can't use say 10 pounds of force because a small fraction of the population can't tolerate it.

        Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author reln
    The article headline is misleading. You would think that they practically decided not to do their job. But you need to remember that these numbers are from the holiday season where you always have a large number of arrest due to intoxication, fights, and other holiday related issues. I'm sure that they are still responding to real emergencies. I guess the benefit here is that you could tinkle in public and not worry about getting a citation.
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    • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
      Banned
      Originally Posted by reln View Post

      I guess the benefit here is that you could tinkle in public and not worry about getting a citation.
      Every person's dream in life! You'll have really hit the jackpot when you are able to make a widdle poopsie-woopsie.

      Cheers. - Frank
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      • Profile picture of the author Kay King
        There's a difference in how the ME uses the term "homicide". It's not the "murder" you are calling it if you are using the medical examiner's definition.

        Why a Medical Examiner Called Eric Garner's Death a 'Homicide'

        There is also a term known as "Restraint-Related Positional Asphyxia" and that has been blamed for several hospital and police-related deaths. Several experts have said the Garner death was likely from the position he was laying in and the weight of officers holding him down AFTER the choke hold was removed.

        When you pick and choose facts to argue - you follow the same path as protestors with their imaginative (though factually incorrect) chants and slogans.
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        • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
          Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

          When you pick and choose facts to argue - you follow the same path as protestors with their imaginative (though factually incorrect) chants and slogans.
          Speaking of which can we have that link where the mayor called for dead cops???. Unless the above quote of yours was a confession of sorts.
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    As for my "pablum", it IS interesting how these people want to charge ever increasing taxes, and pay ever increasing amounts, but they claim to not want to enforce payment, and say it is a "victimless crime".

    The whole idea of paying, whether at the turnstyle, or the cashiers kiosk, is to pay for the SERVICE/PRODUCT and what things facilitate it. So if a person jumps a turnstyle without paying, it is effectively REDUCING the payment for that vehicle and ALL that facilitated its use/existence! Yet you guys want them to be paid MORE! Don't you see the hypocrisy and irony there?

    And if you block a street, you are hurting all those on either side that need to cross. If you sell outside of a store, you are doing the same thing with that store that you did with that turnstyle.

    As for me, I lived in NYS for maybe 4 years, and have been in NYC a while also. I didn't have to use THEIR subway, but have used several. For the maybe 4 years I was in DC, I used their metro. It was the same concept, etc....

    Frank is probably still looking, but it is an HONOR to be in such a rank! I guess he means it is unfortunate for HIM!

    As for eric? They SHOULD have conversed with him about the "can not breath" comment. They should have checked for some medic alert ID, that should be freely offered and better quality! And they should have checked his pulse. But they will be rough with ANYONE. That had nothing to do with him being black.

    Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author garyv
    I'm wondering - If it's ok for the mayor to warn his son about cops being racist - is it also ok for him to tell his son to stay out of black neighborhoods? Being that black on black crime is about 100 times more prevalent than cop on black crime?

    Would that possibly cause a stir? And if it causes a stir, who cares as long as it's the truth right?

    Should the mayor's job be to bluntly lay out his biased truth as he perceives it? Or to work with the different agencies to fix things?

    Because if it's just about telling the truth, then he should also warn his son that he's 6 times more likely to kill a cop than a white boy his age. I mean that actually has more hard statistics to back it up than "cops are racist".
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    • Profile picture of the author Joe Mobley
      Gary,

      Your spewing of the facts is not going to sit well with those who are more interested in their agenda that they are with the truth.

      ...

      ...

      Keep it up.

      Joe Mobley



      Originally Posted by garyv View Post

      I'm wondering - If it's ok for the mayor to warn his son about cops being racist - is it also ok for him to tell his son to stay out of black neighborhoods? Being that black on black crime is about 100 times more prevalent than cop on black crime?

      Would that possibly cause a stir? And if it causes a stir, who cares as long as it's the truth right?

      Should the mayor's job be to bluntly lay out his biased truth as he perceives it? Or to work with the different agencies to fix things?

      Because if it's just about telling the truth, then he should also warn his son that he's 6 times more likely to kill a cop than a white boy his age. I mean that actually has more hard statistics to back it up than "cops are racist".
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      • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
        Originally Posted by Joe Mobley View Post

        Your spewing of the facts is not going to sit well with those who are more interested in their agenda that they are with the truth.
        Or with those buggers that actually know how to use stats. Gots to watch out for them too Pesky bunch the educated are.
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
      Originally Posted by garyv View Post

      I'm wondering - If it's ok for the mayor to warn his son about cops being racist - is it also ok for him to tell his son to stay out of black neighborhoods? Being that black on black crime is about 100 times more prevalent than cop on black crime?
      Depends on the black neighborhood. They don't all live in one place after all.

      Would that possibly cause a stir? And if it causes a stir, who cares as long as it's the truth right?
      Why should it - again depending on the neighborhood - fathers of every color tell their sons t stay out of bad neighborhoods regardless of race. I do it all the time. Welcome to the real world.


      Because if it's just about telling the truth, then he should also warn his son that he's 6 times more likely to kill a cop than a white boy his age. I mean that actually has more hard statistics to back it up than "cops are racist".
      In order to use stats you should learn how to use them. The very nature of stats is that they cannot be applied to an individual like you just did..Thats a COLLOSAL goof of the first order.

      So no your premise is off by wildly comical orders of magnitude since the mayor's son is not 6 times more likely to kill a cop. That stat doesn't back you up you just think it does based on your aforementioned goof of not knowing how to use stats.
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    • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
      Was waiting for this one. A couple points. One, the Mayor probably has talked to his son about other things to be aware of, such as staying away from drugs, drug dealers and gangs. Two, of course black on black crime is more prevalent than cop on black, just as white on white crime is. :/

      By the way Gary, not all black neighborhoods are dangerous. You know that though. You're just being lazy in your thinking here.
      Originally Posted by garyv View Post

      I'm wondering - If it's ok for the mayor to warn his son about cops being racist - is it also ok for him to tell his son to stay out of black neighborhoods? Being that black on black crime is about 100 times more prevalent than cop on black crime?

      Would that possibly cause a stir? And if it causes a stir, who cares as long as it's the truth right?

      Should the mayor's job be to bluntly lay out his biased truth as he perceives it? Or to work with the different agencies to fix things?

      Because if it's just about telling the truth, then he should also warn his son that he's 6 times more likely to kill a cop than a white boy his age. I mean that actually has more hard statistics to back it up than "cops are racist".
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      • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
        Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post


        By the way Gary, not all black neighborhoods are dangerous. You know that though. You're just being lazy in your thinking here.
        I wouldn't be too sure about him knowing that pardner. after all he just used a generalized stat across the US , ignored the geographic distribution and tried to apply that stat to an individual as if it applies equally to each and every mixed and African American male child in the US.

        a feat that would make any Maths professor cringe and any statistician feel waves of nausea
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        • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
          Yep. Trying to give him the benefit of the doubt on that one. Lol I mean, he could say the exact same thing about white neighborhoods. Sigh.
          Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

          I wouldn't be too sure about him knowing that pardner. after all he just used a generalized stat across the US , ignored the geographic distribution and tried to apply that stat to an individual as if it applies equally to each and every mixed and African American male child in the US.

          a feat that would make any Maths professor cringe and any statistician feel waves of nausea
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  • Profile picture of the author garyv
    Thank you all for helping to make my point. The mayor when spouting off that cops are racist was just basically being lazy and not really looking at stats or the real problem was he? And yet you'll put me to the test and not him? Typical hypocrisy - and so easy to uncover... have a good day
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    • Profile picture of the author positivenegative
      You bunch of nuts remind me of the police.


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    • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
      Originally Posted by garyv View Post

      Thank you all for helping to make my point. The mayor when spouting off that cops are racist was just basically being lazy and not really looking at stats or the real problem was he? And yet you'll put me to the test and not him? Typical hypocrisy - and so easy to uncover... have a good day
      So you think you won that argument do you? Lol. OK, there goes my benefit of the doubt.
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      • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
        Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

        So you think you won that argument do you? Lol. OK, there goes my benefit of the doubt.
        Tried to warn you.

        Most uneducated use of stats I have ever seen in my life.

        By that rationality every single white person is likely to be more educated than Neil Tyson and every white adult several years ago (regardless of education, criminal record or political beliefs) had a better chance than Senator Obama at being POTUS.

        Just clueless at what stats represent....As are those who swear he made a good point - but hey it is what it is......lol
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        • Profile picture of the author garyv
          Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

          Tried to warn you.

          Most uneducated use of stats I have ever seen in my life.

          By that rationality every single white person is likely to be more educated than Neil Tyson and every white adult several years ago (regardless of education, criminal record or political beliefs) had a better chance than Senator Obama at being POTUS.

          Just clueless at what stats represent....As are those who swear he made a good point - but hey it is what it is......lol
          LOL - You still don't get what I did there. Keep burying yourself in it. This is fun to watch.
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          • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
            Originally Posted by garyv View Post

            LOL - You still don't get what I did there. Keep burying yourself in it. This is fun to watch.
            Yes Gary you are brilliant. You used stats in a way that no one else ever used them to rebut the use or non use of them.

            ROFL.....You are right though - it IS fun to watch. You still don't get what you goofed on.
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            • Profile picture of the author garyv
              Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

              Yes Gary you are brilliant. You used stats in a way that no one else ever used them to rebut the use or non use of them.

              ROFL.....You are right though - it IS fun to watch. You still don't get what you goofed on.
              Maybe I'll dumb it down a little, because I hate to see you struggle so. I threw out some stats and blanket statements (however right or wrong they were) to point out the absurdity of DeBlasio's own statements about the police - It's called mirroring. It works well at pointing out hypocrisy. What I didn't expect is for you to run with it so brilliantly. And for that I thank you.
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              • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                Originally Posted by garyv View Post

                Maybe I'll dumb it down a little, because I hate to see you struggle so. I threw out some stats and blanket statements (however right or wrong they were) to point out the absurdity of DeBlasio's own statements about the police - It's called mirroring.
                and you flubbed miserably but are trying DESPERATELY to save face.

                Let me see if I can return the attempted favor and break it down into simpler steps you might be able to understand Gary. In Mirroring you replicate. You do not substantially alter the action (mirroring..hint ...hint) in your case by using stats in a way that no one else ever used them or would use them. Perhaps in your confused state you mixed it up with caricature but alas they are not the same and caricatures do not demonstrate hypocrisy...sorry.

                In your mind you think you pointed out hypocrisy but in reality you not only demonstrated you don't know how to use stats but now conclusively demonstrate you don't have a clue about what mirroring is either.

                lol.....the only thing more entertaining than ignorance is someone trying to dress it up as brilliance and showing more ignorance. Work it!
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                • Profile picture of the author garyv
                  Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                  and you flubbed miserably but are trying DESPERATELY to save face.

                  Let me see if I can return the attempted favor and break it down into simpler steps you might be able to understand Gary. In Mirroring you replicate. You do not substantially alter the action (mirroring..hint ...hint) in your case by using stats in a way that no one else ever used them or would use them. Perhaps in your confused state you mixed it up with caricature but alas they are not the same and caricatures do not demonstrate hypocrisy...sorry.

                  In your mind you think you pointed out hypocrisy but in reality you not only demonstrated you not only don't know how to use stats but now conclusively demonstrate you don't have a clue about what mirroring is either.

                  lol.....the only thing more entertaining than ignorance is someone trying to dress it up as brilliance and showing more ignorance. Work it!
                  Ok... well continue the struggle then. LOL
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              • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
                Originally Posted by garyv View Post

                I threw out some stats and blanket statements (however right or wrong they were) to point out the absurdity of DeBlasio's own statements about the police -
                The only thing is the Mayor never said what you said he said, that "cops are racists". He said a few things and none of them were absurd imo. One was that he had a talk with his son about how to deal with cops. This is something several white posters in this forum have said they have done with their sons. Minority parents feel the need to do it even more because minority males are targeted by the police. This is indisputable and is referred to as racial profiling, something I am against, but many here have defended often, usually the same folks who talk about government over reach and the lost of rights.

                One of the issues the mayor ran for office on was to get rid of stop and frisk which targets minority males through racial profiling. He rightfully, imo, equates racial profiling to racism.

                Another statement the Mayor made was that racism in this country goes back centuries. This is another indisputable fact. Again, he didn't say "cops are racists".

                So where is the absurdity in what the Mayor said to justify your absurd statements?
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                • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                  One was that he had a talk with his son about how to deal with cops
                  It was what he said that caused the problem - and then later he changed the story a bit but it was too late.

                  "Because of a history that still hangs over us [and] the dangers that he may face, we've had to literally train him as families have all over this city for decades in how to take special care in any encounter he has with police officers, who are there to protect him. ...
                  "There's so many families in this city who feel that each and every night. Is my child safe? And not just from some of the painful realities of crime and violence in some of our neighborhoods, but are they safe from the very people they want to have faith in, as their protectors?
                  There's much more to the hard feelings, though - the article below touches on several things that deblasio has done.

                  NYPD v. Bill de Blasio: Why New York’s mayor, police are at odds

                  You have to realize while the Mayor is saying his son may not be safe from police.....the NYPD runs police details of officers assigned to protect the mayor and his family.

                  It's provided another point to argue in NY - and here, I guess.
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                  • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                    Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                    There's much more to the hard feelings, though - the article below touches on several things that deblasio has done.
                    Not a one which indicts him except perhaps this

                    Since then, the mayor has continued to court Sharpton. Attending his 60th birthday party in October, the mayor described Sharpton as the nation's preeminent civil rights figure and "a blessing for this city."
                    I'll admit ...on that he needs to lay off the sauce
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                • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                  Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post


                  So where is the absurdity in what the Mayor said to justify your absurd statements?
                  Tim you are like me - You just don't get the new exotic definition of mirroring. The Emperor really does have new clothes on.
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                • Profile picture of the author seasoned
                  Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

                  The only thing is the Mayor never said what you said hr said ' cops are racists". He said a few things and none of them was absurd. One was that he had a talk with his son about how to deal with cops. This is something several white posters in this forum have said they have done with their sons. Minority parents feel the need to do it even more because minority males are targeted by the police. This is indisputable and is referred to as racial profiling, something I am against, but many here have defended often, usually the same folks who talk about government over reach and the lost of rights.

                  One of the issues the mayor ran for office on was to get rid of stop and frisk which targets minority males through racial profiling. He rightfully IMO equates racial profiling to racism.

                  Another statement the Mayor made was that racism in this country goes back centuries. This is another indisputable fact. Again, he didn't say "cops are racists".

                  So where is the absurdity in what the Mayor said to justify your absurd statements?
                  YEAH, we keep forgetting the "magic" of that D!

                  A REPRESENTATIVE with an R has a speech, that apparently was harmless, though nobody spoke about it, and people try to say RACIST, RACIST, RACIST! WHY? Because the group that he supposedly spoke at, apparently was founded by a person that was connected with the KKK, and is a racist. Interestingly, he was only a STATE rep for 6 years. He maybe didn't even THINK to research the group, or of the implications. Remember, he only SPOKE there! STILL, one part I didn't hear before..... Kenny Knight and his former girlfriend, Barbara Noble, said that Scalise did not speak at the EURO conference, but at a meeting of the Jefferson Heights Civic Association. The association met in the same location as the EURO conference, several hours before the conference began.

                  A senator with a D apparently NEVER had a real bad word spoken against him, by his party, and was mourned in his death. OK, let me tell you about HIM! He was a RACIST, A KKK member AND recruiter, called a Kleagle! HIS excuse? "I was sorely afflicted with tunnel vision — a jejune and immature outlook — seeing only what I wanted to see because I thought the Klan could provide an outlet for my talents and ambitions!". He was a recruiter for the Klan while in his 20s and 30s, rising to the title of Kleagle and Exalted Cyclops of his local chapter. Some MIGHT say, WELL, he DID live to 93years of age. Well, he ALSO used nasty epithets up until close before death. And I suppose that his change of behavior only HAPPENED to happen so close to the point where it started to become a detriment. He was in public office for 60 years, since he was about 33yo(ANOTHER COINCIDENCE?)! Since I mentioned OTHER names, Byrd!

                  But OHHHHHHH the magic of a letter!

                  The mayor made it CLEAR that blacks have something to worry about and spoke of major problems in the NYPD, and tied the two together. The audience UNDERSTOOD what he said, and understood it as that.

                  Steve
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                • Profile picture of the author garyv
                  Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

                  The only thing is the Mayor never said what you said he said, that "cops are racists".
                  No of course he never said "cops are racists" - He's a politician - he inferred it. He made his point perfectly known through actions and inferences without actually saying the words. Politicians and lawyers do it exceptionally well.

                  But none the less - even if he wasn't referring to his son's race (even though we all know he was) - even if he was only referring to all young people in general. He has still made a blanket indictment that police officers are all overly aggressive and outside of the law.

                  There are a few bad officers, and incidents of brutality here and there that get wildly blown out of proportion for political purposes. But compared to the millions of incidents police officers have to take care of on a daily basis - to take a few incidents and use them to publicly reprimand an otherwise awesome police force is not going to win you a lot of friends in the police force. And ESPECIALLY if shortly there after 2 officers get murdered.

                  One of the basic tenants of leadership is that you never publicly admonish those leaders that are under you. To do so effectively renders them powerless to those they are supposed to be leading. Plus it's cowardly. If he has a problem with the way NYPD is doing things he should take it internally and clean the place up.
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                  • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
                    Originally Posted by garyv View Post

                    No of course he never said "cops are racists" - He's a politician - he inferred it...He has still made a blanket indictment that police officers are all overly aggressive and outside of the law.
                    No he didn't infer that all cops are racist or that all cops are overly aggressive and outside the law. Just isn't true. In fact, he spent a lot of time praising the NYPD before the non-indictment, during the protests and now, after the cop killings.

                    De Blasio on Dec 4:

                    Overwhelmingly, the demonstrations were peaceful, and I want to say, the response by the NYPD was exactly the right one. It was smart, it was strategic, it was agile -- a lot of restraint was shown. When necessary, arrests were made. But you saw a very peaceful night in New York City. Despite the frustration and the pain that so many people are feeling, you saw a peaceful protest. You saw a minimum of disruption. I give credit to everyone involved, but I particularly give credit to the NYPD for having managed the situation so appropriately. ... All of us have such respect for the work our police do. It's the basis, again, of a democratic society that our police keep order, and allow a democratic society to function.
                    De Blasio on Dec 19th, before the two cops were murdered:

                    This is what our democracy allows for, is people to make their voices heard peacefully, in an organized way -- and that’s what this group and others have been doing. I made very clear that we cannot accept any violence against our police officers or against anyone.
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                    • Profile picture of the author ThomM
                      Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

                      No he didn't infer that all cops are racist or that all cops are overly aggressive and outside the law. Just isn't true. In fact, he spent a lot of time praising the NYPD before the non-indictment, during the protests and now, after the cop killings.

                      De Blasio on Dec 4:



                      De Blasio on Dec 19th, before the two cops were murdered:
                      It runs deeper then just that Tim. The riff between Blasio and the police has been ever widening since he took office.
                      NYPD v. Bill de Blasio: Why New York’s mayor, police are at odds
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                      • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
                        Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

                        It runs deeper then just that Tim. The riff between Blasio and the police has been ever widening since he took office.
                        NYPD v. Bill de Blasio: Why New York's mayor, police are at odds
                        Yes, I read that Thom. There was tension before he even became Mayor because he wanted to end stop and frisk and the NYPD didn't want to. Still, nothing he said infers all cops are racist or bad cops. That's just not true.
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                        • Profile picture of the author ThomM
                          Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

                          Yes, I read that Thom. There was tension before he even became Mayor because he wanted to end stop and frisk and the NYPD didn't want to. Still, nothing he said infers all cops are racist or bad cops. That's just not true.
                          I'm not saying he said all cops are racist, but the remarks he did make where out of line for a Mayor to make.
                          I gave an example earlier on how this could of been handled by him in the right way (the mayor I was talking about was a Democrat by the way).
                          For the record I applaud him for ending the "stop and frisk" policy.
                          I think that was one of the major causes for the dislike of the police in NYC.
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                        • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                          Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

                          Yes, I read that Thom. There was tension before he even became Mayor because he wanted to end stop and frisk and the NYPD didn't want to. Still, nothing he said infers all cops are racist or bad cops. That's just not true.
                          It really doesn't matter if it is or not. They will just parse it , redefine terms or make up bogus rules to get where they want to go (like Gary just did - the military routinely publicly demotes people and yet they are able and expected to lead others and sometimes even the exact same people.).

                          Heres the underlying issue. There are two kinds of racism deniers (and you have both on this board)

                          A) those who say there are no real issues

                          and

                          B) those who say there are no REAL issues

                          B is just a tad above A in that they admit there is an issue but they don't think it s all that big of an issue - Put some people in a room stand besides each other already and lets hammer this out in time to catch the game. If one side says its a more thorny issue then just accuse him of crying racism and being part of the problem

                          You see this as recurring theme in their posts. The mayor should just get in there and solve the issue and "fix it". They haven't really thought about racism too deeply because they have never had to. its really not that big of a deal so the mayor should be held responsible for it and fixing it privately.

                          Now for those who understand it we know that it doesn't work like that. The mayor cannot jump into every squad car and making a bunch of rules doesn't end racism or curtail another incident from happening. You can't even fire the racists because they don't come with a sticker on their heads (and the nature of cops relationship isn't going to have a partner ratting them out).

                          So really how has racism been abated so far?/ Whats REALLY worked??- well the one thing that the racism deniers and the REAL racism deniers don't want done (and have the nerve to call people cowardly for doing ). publicly exposing it, talking about it.making it so uncool that today even racist don't want to be identified as such and have to hide their beliefs.

                          and who has been most effective in making it uncool. Famous people - in politics (yep like white Mayors), in the media and in the entertainment industry who PUBLICLY made it uncool

                          Racism has never been solved "privately". thats just a load of nonsense by people who don't have a clue about it (the whole concept is HILARIOUSLY laughable). Either that or people who have a vested interest in keeping things on the status quo.
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                          • Profile picture of the author garyv
                            Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post


                            So really how has racism been abated so far?/ Whats REALLY worked??- well the one thing that the racism deniers and the REAL racism deniers don't want done (and have the nerve to call people cowardly for doing ). publicly exposing it, talking about it.making it so uncool that today even racist don't want to be identified as such and have to hide their beliefs.
                            LOL - You want to claim that he's publicly exposing racists - and yet he has somehow never talked about them being racists.

                            I love how you and Tim like to add "denier" to anyone that disagrees with something you say. I said that most cops are not racists. How does that make me a racist denier? Are you a good cop denier? By your logic you must be. You are an obvious "good cop" denier.

                            Unbelievable the two of you... LOL
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                            • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                              Originally Posted by garyv View Post

                              I love how you and Tim like to add "denier" to anyone that disagrees with something you say. I said that most cops are not racists. How does that make me a racist denier?
                              Oh Gary. Thats so weak. For the most part we are among adults. Anyone that can read can see what you have written has not been limited to "most cops are not racists". Had you said just that I don't think Tim would take issue an d I know I wouldn't (despite Thom's Precog brilliance in mind reading and prophecy possibly claiming otherwise).
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                  • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                    Originally Posted by garyv View Post


                    There are a few bad officers, and incidents of brutality here and there that get wildly blown out of proportion for political purposes..
                    Shucks yeah...A guy crying out I can't breath in a choke hold killed by the people we give authority to protect citizens is no big deal to be blown out of a proportion. what are they thinking?

                    I'm happy to live in a country where even one such death is a big deal worth blowing up, even more happy that the country for those who think its no big deal to be blown up is fading fast and most delighted they have no shot at reclaiming it.
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                    • Profile picture of the author garyv
                      Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                      Shucks yeah...A guy crying out I can't breath in a choke hold killed by the people we give authority to protect citizens is no big deal to be blown out of a proportion. what are they thinking?

                      I'm happy to live in a country where even one such death is a big deal worth blowing up, even more happy that the country for those who think its no big deal to be blown up is fading fast and most delighted they have no shot at reclaiming it.
                      I never said that the death was not a big deal. But one or two - or even a hundred incidents out of the millions of incidents that take place in the line of duty does not make a trend. Should these individuals be punished? Yes. Should you indict an entire organization - of course not.

                      And anyone that knows anything about racism in this country knows that race-baiting has been the biggest grower of racism in this country by far. People like Al Sharpton throw out the race card every chance they get to promote their political and financial agendas - and people like you and Tim fall for it. They keep slapping people in the face with their race - and then we all wonder why there are more racists than ever before.

                      And don't say that I don't understand racism, just because I don't agree with your idiocy.
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                      • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                        Originally Posted by garyv View Post

                        I never said that the death was not a big deal. But one or two - or even a hundred incidents out of the millions of incidents that take place in the line of duty does not make a trend.
                        Gary what makes it a big deal is not the amount of times it happens compared to incidents in the line of duty but that the people are pledged with protection killed someone. Take race out of it and imagine a traffic stop where you watch as a cop pulls out a gun and shoots a mother during a traffic stop. You'd ask why and I think and hope you would be outraged if you found out it had been the policy of the police to pull over mothers as suspicious. Would your argument that there were many more times they were not shot really hold any water? quell outrage? Nope. You don't want to see a trend so you disconnect issues so as to not see a trend.

                        And anyone that knows anything about racism in this country knows that race-baiting has been the biggest grower of racism in this country by far. People like Al Sharpton
                        Sigh such Nonsense. You are just demonstrating you don't know anything about racism outside of your anger that race is brought up. No one has ever called me the N word because of AL sharpton. It didn't just jump into their head because of Al Sharpton. No Mother has ever said "You know I thought he was right for you at first but I saw all Sharpton last night on TV and I think Mike is too dark for you.". Thats all grade A baloney. No intelligent person says "you know what I am going to become a racist because I just can't take Al sharpton." (Maybe "I am going to stop using Hair gels/conditioners). Could he make them spew more? sure but to say Al sharpton has the power over people to make the racists where they never were is just silliness. You are in essence making excuses for people being racist which is pretty close to sympathizing with racism.

                        I'm going to separate the race baiting charge for another response because its brought up so much on this forum it would make for a productive conversation if we can keep it civil even if heated.

                        And don't say that I don't understand racism, just because I don't agree with your idiocy.
                        its not your disagreement. Its you inability to back up your points logically that makes it a fact.
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  • Profile picture of the author yukon
    Banned
    Who finally won?
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    • Profile picture of the author whateverpedia
      Originally Posted by yukon View Post

      Who finally won?
      No-one.........................
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      Why do garden gnomes smell so bad?
      So that blind people can hate them as well.
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      • Profile picture of the author yukon
        Banned
        Originally Posted by whateverpedia View Post

        No-one.........................
        Can we get an ETA on the thread lock?
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        • Profile picture of the author socialentry
          Banned
          Originally Posted by yukon View Post

          Can we get an ETA on the thread lock?
          no no no. People of the world who are interested in americana wins.

          No lock.
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          • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
            Originally Posted by socialentry View Post

            no no no. People of the world who are interested in americana wins.

            No lock.
            ROFl...You just see you have a real shot at OP of the longest thread in OT if the discussion continues a few more days.
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            • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
              Banned
              Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

              ROFl...You just see you have a real shot at OP of the longest thread in OT if the discussion continues a few more days.
              I don't think that's gonna happen...

              http://www.warriorforum.com/off-topi...thread-32.html

              Cheers

              -don
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              • Profile picture of the author ThomM
                Racism has never been solved "privately". thats just a load of nonsense by people who don't have a clue about it (the whole concept is HILARIOUSLY laughable). Either that or people who have a vested interest in keeping things on the status quo.
                Racism has never been solved period.
                But it has turned into a good money maker for people like Sharpton. Talk about someone who has a vested interest in keeping things on status quo.
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                Life: Nature's way of keeping meat fresh
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                As you are I was, as I am you will be
                You can't fix stupid, but you can always out smart it.

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