Did the Philidalphia Experiment Really Happen?

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I have typed that one into Google, but there is little to no info, on this, which is more of a legend than fact, but....

THE PHILADELPHIA EXPERIMENT

This site is a short read, and a lot more down to earth, well as down to earth as you can get!


The test had managed to render the entire ship 'out of phase' with the surrounding universe,

World Mysteries - The Philadelphia Experiment

You need to scroll about 10% down the page for the quote, and more. Some of this reads more like a bad Twilight Zone, episode, with freezing, etc. But the dates and people involved, Tesla and Einstein, make this hard to dismiss.

This one is more indepth, if you are into this sort of thing?


n the 1930's Nikola Tesla got involved with a group with was experimenting with moving through the Time/Space continuum. In the early 1930's, the University of Chicago investigated the possibility of invisibility through the use of electricity.

In 1939 this project was moved to Princeton's Institute of Advanced Studies - this is not far from Philadelphia. There they were able to make small objects invisible. They presented this technology to the government. The military, because we were at war wanted to pursue it in their direction.



Tesla had come to the same conclusion that Einstein did that this technology if developed would not be used for the benefit of mankind.



In 1943 the government conducted a test using domestic animals on a ship. The ship that was eventually used for the experiment, the USS Eldridge, was commissioned at the New York Navy Yard on August 27,1943 (Department of the Navy). The animals were placed in metal cages on the USS Eldridge. The ship became invisible but when it materialized many of the animals were missing on had radiation and other burn marks on them. Humans were not to be tested.



Yet on August 12, 1943 the USS Eldridge with a full crew aboard reportedly underwent the Philadelphia Experiment. The men did not know what was to happen. The generators were fired up. The switches were thrown. The ship disappeared and all seemed well.
NIKOLA TESLA: SECRET TIME TRAVEL EXPERIMENTS

This add's a lot more credibility to the Phil, experiment.

Nikola Tesla had his first indications that time and space could be influenced by using highly charged, rotating magnetic fields. Part of this revelation came about from Tesla's experimentation with radio frequencies and the transmission of electrical energy through the atmosphere.
And this for the skeptics...

MORE FRINGE SCIENCE: BOEING ADMITS ANTI-GRAVITY WORK - Alchemy, Cosmic War

There is also work by an American who messes around with old military equipment and high, energy electrical beams that can make most objects defy gravity or melt into each other.

This is based in concentrating a Tesla coil energy into a beam and pointing it at objects.

This add's a lot to the Phil, experiment being genuine, but there is no mention of any of the objects disappearing, etc, but metals fusing together and defying gravity, go a long way!

Hopefully someone here can post that link or video, l tried to find it, but couldn't, (although the video does or did exist).


Ok, that is about it, hopefully we can have some intelligent discussion about this, without the usual brash, "this is all crap" or something along those lines?

Maybe Einstein did develop a unified field theory, but had to keep quiet about it, since the time travel aspect could obviously turn war on its head!

  • Profile picture of the author WalkingCarpet
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    Here's my take on the world.
    If it ain't on CNN it didn't happen.
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    Well, I don't doubt that they tried such things. In theory at least there may be a way to make it radar invisible doing something similar, the trick is to do it without being a beacon! Someone in Great Britain supposedly noticed an EMR disruption during WWII, and exploited it to create RADAR. As for "concentrating a Tesla coil energy into a beam"? YEP, that has been known for several MILLENIA! They use it a LOT today! It was probably used to BUILD parts of that ship, and is used on MILLIONS of objects. One such object is many cars! It EVEN has a NAME! It is called ARC WELDING! Arc welding - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    YEP! Tesla was smart, and innovative. Supposedly, he could build an entire design IN HIS HEAD, all math solved as well, and just copy down the result to paper. That is nothing to be sneezed at, and rarely even CLAIMED by others. But a lot of what he was doing was not THAT new. The tesla coil, for example, was based on an OLD principle used everywhere!

    The guy credited with the basic theories, FARADAY, died when Tesla was about 11 years old. And MARCONI used those basic theories for wireless transfer and identification of low power energy to create wireless transmissions. So what was special about TESLA? HE, again, supposedly in his head, figured out how to have higher power go a farther distance. Faraday showed it was possible, and had it go feet. Marconi transferred lower power for miles. Faraday did a little of both. HECK, ARC welding is basically based on an experiment benjamin franklin did! Benjamin Franklin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Alas, the only thing benjamin did with the info was invent the lightning rod. All sorts of things got damaged by all that power, and he simply found a way to control its dissipation.

    Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      On January 13, 1955, Jessup received a letter from a man who identified himself as one "Carlos Allende." In the letter, Allende informed Jessup of the "Philadelphia Experiment," alluding to two poorly sourced contemporary newspaper articles as proof. Allende directly responded to Jessup's call for research on the "Unified Field Theory," which he referred to as "UFT."
      Almost every story about the Philadelphia Experiment can be traced back to Jessup and his story about Allende. The PE has been widely denounced as a hoax.

      According to Allende, Einstein had developed the theory, but had suppressed it, since mankind was not ready for it — a confession that the scientist allegedly shared with the mathematician and philosopher Bertrand Russell. Allende also said that he had witnessed the Eldridge appear and disappear while serving aboard the SS Andrew Furuseth, a nearby merchant ship.

      The Eldridge MIGHT have 'disappeared' because the official record shows the military was conducting degaussing experiments...and those could make a ship invisible on radar. So if the man was watching radar - he might see the ship "disappear"....on radar.

      The claims about Einstein just happen to be published the year Einstein died. It's a bit like the conspiracy blogs online - a bit of truth and a lot of truth-bending makes for a story that gets a lot of attention and sounds like it "could be true". And - if you can link that story to a famous person in the news...so much the better.
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      • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
        Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

        Almost every story about the Philadelphia Experiment can be traced back to Jessup and his story about Allende. The PE has been widely denounced as a hoax.

        According to Allende, Einstein had developed the theory, but had suppressed it, since mankind was not ready for it -- a confession that the scientist allegedly shared with the mathematician and philosopher Bertrand Russell. Allende also said that he had witnessed the Eldridge appear and disappear while serving aboard the SS Andrew Furuseth, a nearby merchant ship.

        The Eldridge MIGHT have 'disappeared' because the official record shows the military was conducting degaussing experiments...and those could make a ship invisible on radar. So if the man was watching radar - he might see the ship "disappear"....on radar.

        The claims about Einstein just happen to be published the year Einstein died. It's a bit like the conspiracy blogs online - a bit of truth and a lot of truth-bending makes for a story that gets a lot of attention and sounds like it "could be true". And - if you can link that story to a famous person in the news...so much the better.
        Kay; I think your stubborn dedication to facts, and your insufferable sanity...have no place here.

        Your adherence to the real news reports, and using actual science as a basis of your thinking, leaves me with only one conclusion....

        You are a witch from the 9th Dimension.
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        • Profile picture of the author butters
          Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

          Kay; I think your stubborn dedication to facts, and your insufferable sanity...have no place here.

          Your adherence to the real news reports, and using actual science as a basis of your thinking, leaves me with only one conclusion....

          You are a witch from the 9th Dimension.
          This forum doesn't deal with real science!! This post actually gave me a chuckle
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          • Profile picture of the author Kay King
            sorry (note small "s") - that's my problem with conspiracies and other oddities....those silly facts get in my way. Would be so much easier if I could retreat to la-la land and become a believer....

            I'll fold my little pup tent of reality and toddle off now....
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          • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
            Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

            Well, I don't doubt that they tried such things. In theory at least there may be a way to make it radar invisible doing something similar, the trick is to do it without being a beacon! Someone in Great Britain supposedly noticed an EMR disruption during WWII, and exploited it to create RADAR. As for "concentrating a Tesla coil energy into a beam"? YEP, that has been known for several MILLENIA! They use it a LOT today! It was probably used to BUILD parts of that ship, and is used on MILLIONS of objects. One such object is many cars! It EVEN has a NAME! It is called ARC WELDING! Arc welding - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

            YEP! Tesla was smart, and innovative. Supposedly, he could build an entire design IN HIS HEAD, all math solved as well, and just copy down the result to paper. That is nothing to be sneezed at, and rarely even CLAIMED by others. But a lot of what he was doing was not THAT new. The tesla coil, for example, was based on an OLD principle used everywhere!

            The guy credited with the basic theories, FARADAY, died when Tesla was about 11 years old. And MARCONI used those basic theories for wireless transfer and identification of low power energy to create wireless transmissions. So what was special about TESLA? HE, again, supposedly in his head, figured out how to have higher power go a farther distance. Faraday showed it was possible, and had it go feet. Marconi transferred lower power for miles. Faraday did a little of both. HECK, ARC welding is basically based on an experiment benjamin franklin did! Benjamin Franklin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Alas, the only thing benjamin did with the info was invent the lightning rod. All sorts of things got damaged by all that power, and he simply found a way to control its dissipation.

            Steve
            Doesn't look like arch welding in the videos below?


            Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

            Almost every story about the Philadelphia Experiment can be traced back to Jessup and his story about Allende. The PE has been widely denounced as a hoax.

            According to Allende, Einstein had developed the theory, but had suppressed it, since mankind was not ready for it -- a confession that the scientist allegedly shared with the mathematician and philosopher Bertrand Russell. Allende also said that he had witnessed the Eldridge appear and disappear while serving aboard the SS Andrew Furuseth, a nearby merchant ship.

            The Eldridge MIGHT have 'disappeared' because the official record shows the military was conducting degaussing experiments...and those could make a ship invisible on radar. So if the man was watching radar - he might see the ship "disappear"....on radar.

            The claims about Einstein just happen to be published the year Einstein died. It's a bit like the conspiracy blogs online - a bit of truth and a lot of truth-bending makes for a story that gets a lot of attention and sounds like it "could be true". And - if you can link that story to a famous person in the news...so much the better.
            Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

            Kay; I think your stubborn dedication to facts, and your insufferable sanity...have no place here.

            Your adherence to the real news reports, and using actual science as a basis of your thinking, leaves me with only one conclusion....

            You are a witch from the 9th Dimension.
            Ok, my mistake l didn't realise you were at Philadelphia harbour and witnessed the ship doing weird things?

            Or that you have a unified field theory to everything!


            Originally Posted by butters View Post

            This forum doesn't deal with real science!! This post actually gave me a chuckle




            Fake or not hard to say, but as always experimentation and an open mind produce the truth, not po-poing something on herd thinking!!!

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          • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
            Originally Posted by butters View Post

            This forum doesn't deal with real science!! This post actually gave me a chuckle
            What's strange to me, is that it's like that in any group I know. The fascination is almost always with the bizarre, and the fantastic. Real science just doesn't cut it. And the critical thinking, needed to tell the difference, isn't usually present. I'm not trying to be insulting (it just comes naturally), but critical thinking is a skill. It isn't easy to develop, and it's rare.

            And, science isn't something most people are interested in. Many say they are, but what interests them isn't really science, but pseudo-science....or whatever is posted on Facebook.

            I've asked completely sane people, "Which is bigger, the Moon or the Sun?"....and got the wrong answer. It's just not something most people think about.

            On the other hand, if you ask me even the most rudimentary question about; stocks, politics, wine, travel, cars, lawn care, dancing, music, sports, games, electronics....I draw a complete blank. We all have our strengths and weaknesses.
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            • Profile picture of the author discrat
              Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

              I've asked completely sane people, "Which is bigger, the Moon or the Sun?"....and got the wrong answer. It's just not something most people think about.

              .
              Its amazing that I have asked others questions like which is farther away the Sun or Moon. And a certain number of people get that wrong.

              Unbelievable, really.

              If you do not know which is father , should you really continue existence on this planet LOL
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              • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
                Originally Posted by discrat View Post

                Its amazing that I have asked others questions like which is farther away the Sun or Moon. And a certain number of people get that wrong.

                Unbelievable, really.

                If you do not know which is father , should you really continue existence on this planet LOL
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            • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
              Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

              What's strange to me, is that it's like that in any group I know. The fascination is almost always with the bizarre, and the fantastic. Real science just doesn't cut it. And the critical thinking, needed to tell the difference, isn't usually present. I'm not trying to be insulting (it just comes naturally), but critical thinking is a skill. It isn't easy to develop, and it's rare.

              And, science isn't something most people are interested in. Many say they are, but what interests them isn't really science, but pseudo-science....or whatever is posted on Facebook.

              I've asked completely sane people, "Which is bigger, the Moon or the Sun?"....and got the wrong answer. It's just not something most people think about.

              On the other hand, if you ask me even the most rudimentary question about; stocks, politics, wine, travel, cars, lawn care, dancing, music, sports, games, electronics....I draw a complete blank. We all have our strengths and weaknesses.
              Critical thinking, like the expert mathematician and scientist who said that heavier than air powered flight was impossible, before the Wright Brothers, ok!


              Now, we can get where you and butters are coming from!

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              • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                Originally Posted by tagiscom View Post

                Critical thinking, like the expert mathematician and scientist who said that heavier than air powered flight was impossible, before the Wright Brothers, ok!


                Now, we can get where you and butters are coming from!
                Shane; I'll be honest. Usually, I ignore your nonsense. But you have done something most can't. You have hit a nerve with me.

                Critical thinking, is thinking with logic, and based on truly established facts. The people that didn't think the Wright brother's plane would fly, just didn't understand the physical laws involved. In other words, you are not "The Wright brothers" in this story. You are the people that didn't understand how wings actually worked. It is the Wright Brothers that were the critical thinkers. It was logic, and an understanding of the laws of physics... that showed them that a plane with wings would fly.
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                • Profile picture of the author Kurt
                  Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                  Shane; I'll be honest. Usually, I ignore your nonsense. But you have done something most can't. You have hit a nerve with me.

                  Critical thinking, is thinking with logic, and based on truly established facts. The people that didn't think the Wright brother's plane would fly, just didn't understand the physical laws involved. In other words, you are not "The Wright brothers" in this story. You are the people that didn't understand how wings actually worked. It is the Wright Brothers that were the critical thinkers. It was logic, and an understanding of the laws of physics... that showed them that a plane with wings would fly.
                  I know! I know!

                  The Wright Brothers noticed the shape of birds wings and copied it. A bird's wing is flat on the bottom side and rounded on the top. Because of this, the air that goes over the top will travel faster since it needs to travel farther than the air below, since the shortest distance between two points is a straight line.

                  A basic law of thermal dynamics states the higher the velocity of air, the less the pressure and vice versa. This causes an imbalance in the air pressure, with high pressure below the wing and low pressure above. And this imbalance of pressure creates "lift".

                  This is also how a vacuum cleaner works, using a fan to create high velocity/low pressure area so that it "sucks" to a low pressure/high velocity area from a higher pressure/low velocity area...Although as we all know, nothing sucks, everything blows (except Claude...he does both).

                  BTW, you have to appreciate Shane's logic that because some people were wrong about the Wright Brothers, the Philadelphia Experiment really happened.
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            • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
              Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

              What's strange to me, is that it's like that in any group I know. The fascination is almost always with the bizarre, and the fantastic. Real science just doesn't cut it. And the critical thinking, needed to tell the difference, isn't usually present. I'm not trying to be insulting (it just comes naturally), but critical thinking is a skill. It isn't easy to develop, and it's rare.

              And, science isn't something most people are interested in. Many say they are, but what interests them isn't really science, but pseudo-science....or whatever is posted on Facebook.

              I've asked completely sane people, "Which is bigger, the Moon or the Sun?"....and got the wrong answer. It's just not something most people think about.

              On the other hand, if you ask me even the most rudimentary question about; stocks, politics, wine, travel, cars, lawn care, dancing, music, sports, games, electronics....I draw a complete blank. We all have our strengths and weaknesses.
              The Moon and the Sun are about the the same size in the sky, except the Sun is a lot brighter due to it's Led backlighting. Simple Science.

              Im still reeling from the Lawn Care revelation.
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  • Profile picture of the author yukon
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    I can confirm the Philadelphia Experiment might have happened.
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    • Profile picture of the author HeySal
      Originally Posted by yukon View Post

      I can confirm the Philadelphia Experiment might have happened.
      Please do so.

      I saw the movie Philadelphia Experiment and never knew that anyone anywhere ever purported it was based on a real event. Maybe it said so before or after the movie, but I don't remember seeing that part. So - I've never thought about it or questioned it. I just thought it was a good movie.

      This isn't my area of interest in science so I see things now and then that catch my interest briefly, but don't really pay much attention either way. To tell the truth - I couldn't tell you fact from fiction about the movie or what we know is being or has been done in the field.

      My knee jerk reaction is that I don't think it happened - and if there was a real ship that actually was seen to disappear, what was going on was something different from what has been suggested the experiment was about.

      There are a lot of people that call others "conspiracy nuts" when a capability or activity is suggested even though you can look up registered patents and owners of the patents that clearly reveal the person knows what they are saying. I'm not going to call anyone in here off-base for thinking there may or may not have been experiments of this order - because I have no clue of the plausibility or implausibility.

      I will say that right now invisibility experiments involve bending light around objects. It seems to me that actually disappearing things to make them invisible would have been a whole different realm of experimentation than "invisibility" and just doesn't make sense to me at all. Of course, I'm not familiar enough with the science to make that statement as an authoritative judgement. It just doesn't sit right with me is all. If they were actually trying to disappear stuff, I think they were aiming for something else than invisibility. Science comes up with some weird crap though, so who knows.
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      • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

        Shane; I'll be honest. Usually, I ignore your nonsense. But you have done something most can't. You have hit a nerve with me.

        Critical thinking, is thinking with logic, and based on truly established facts. The people that didn't think the Wright brother's plane would fly, just didn't understand the physical laws involved. In other words, you are not "The Wright brothers" in this story. You are the people that didn't understand how wings actually worked. It is the Wright Brothers that were the critical thinkers. It was logic, and an understanding of the laws of physics... that showed them that a plane with wings would fly.
        Yes, exactly, understanding! You or l don't understand the universe and all its laws, so this experiment cannot be a closed door discussion!

        And if individuals try to close the door on this, since it is disturbing or too sci-fi, then, well, that reflects poorly on their thought processes!

        I don't believe in all of what l have read, since it looks like something plucked out of a H.G. Wells story, but high energy rotating magnetic fields affecting space and time, none of us here can say that that is a crock!

        Not without a lot of testing!!!!


        Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

        I was responding to the concentrated tesla field and melding of materials. STILL, I looked at part of one of the above videos. He shows a crystal rock generating low level power? *****BIG DEAL*****! A LOT of people know about the piezoelectric effect. STILL, there are a lot of ways it can be faked. I haven't read a lot through this, but it is interesting: Hutchison hoax - The Skeptic's Dictionary - Skepdic.com

        Steve
        Yes, l looked into all the skeptical videos, etc on melting metals together, etc; so that is why l said, l didn't know if these videos were legit.

        Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

        I know! I know!

        The Wright Brothers noticed the shape of birds wings and copied it. A bird's wing is flat on the bottom side and rounded on the top. Because of this, the air that goes over the top will travel faster since it needs to travel farther than the air below, since the shortest distance between two points is a straight line.

        A basic law of thermal dynamics states the higher the velocity of air, the less the pressure and vice versa. This causes an imbalance in the air pressure, with high pressure below the wing and low pressure above. And this imbalance of pressure creates "lift".

        This is also how a vacuum cleaner works, using a fan to create high velocity/low pressure area so that it "sucks" to a low pressure/high velocity area from a higher pressure/low velocity area...Although as we all know, nothing sucks, everything blows (except Claude...he does both).

        BTW, you have to appreciate Shane's logic that because some people were wrong about the Wright Brothers, the Philadelphia Experiment really happened.
        Hmmmmm, ok.

        Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

        There are a lot of people that call others "conspiracy nuts" when a capability or activity is suggested even though you can look up registered patents and owners of the patents that clearly reveal the person knows what they are saying. I'm not going to call anyone in here off-base for thinking there may or may not have been experiments of this order - because I have no clue of the plausibility or implausibility.

        I will say that right now invisibility experiments involve bending light around objects. It seems to me that actually disappearing things to make them invisible would have been a whole different realm of experimentation than "invisibility" and just doesn't make sense to me at all. Of course, I'm not familiar enough with the science to make that statement as an authoritative judgement. It just doesn't sit right with me is all. If they were actually trying to disappear stuff, I think they were aiming for something else than invisibility. Science comes up with some weird crap though, so who knows.
        Thank you Sal, this is the first intelligent answer l have heard so far!

        Well, one of few!




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        • Profile picture of the author whateverpedia
          Originally Posted by tagiscom View Post

          And if individuals try to close the door on this, since it is disturbing or too sci-fi,
          The door was closed because the story has been debunked.
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      • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
        Originally Posted by yukon View Post

        I can confirm the Philadelphia Experiment might have happened.
        Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

        Please do so.

        I saw the movie Philadelphia Experiment and never knew that anyone anywhere ever purported it was based on a real event.
        Sal, I think you may have missed the humor of Yukon's post. I bolded the keywords.
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        • Profile picture of the author HeySal
          Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

          Sal, I think you may have missed the humor of Yukon's post. I bolded the keywords.
          Smilies would have taken the fun out of it. I thought it would be more fun to watch him have to expound on his humor than the humor was. He didn't bite. Oh well - there'll be other threads. Guess Claude can have this one.
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      • Profile picture of the author seasoned
        Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

        Please do so.

        I saw the movie Philadelphia Experiment and never knew that anyone anywhere ever purported it was based on a real event. Maybe it said so before or after the movie, but I don't remember seeing that part. So - I've never thought about it or questioned it. I just thought it was a good movie.

        This isn't my area of interest in science so I see things now and then that catch my interest briefly, but don't really pay much attention either way. To tell the truth - I couldn't tell you fact from fiction about the movie or what we know is being or has been done in the field.

        My knee jerk reaction is that I don't think it happened - and if there was a real ship that actually was seen to disappear, what was going on was something different from what has been suggested the experiment was about.

        There are a lot of people that call others "conspiracy nuts" when a capability or activity is suggested even though you can look up registered patents and owners of the patents that clearly reveal the person knows what they are saying. I'm not going to call anyone in here off-base for thinking there may or may not have been experiments of this order - because I have no clue of the plausibility or implausibility.

        I will say that right now invisibility experiments involve bending light around objects. It seems to me that actually disappearing things to make them invisible would have been a whole different realm of experimentation than "invisibility" and just doesn't make sense to me at all. Of course, I'm not familiar enough with the science to make that statement as an authoritative judgement. It just doesn't sit right with me is all. If they were actually trying to disappear stuff, I think they were aiming for something else than invisibility. Science comes up with some weird crap though, so who knows.
        The movie takes liberties! It takes a LOT of liberties! As for the REAL story? I don't doubt they tried to make it invisible to radar, and possibly more. I DON'T doubt people may have died. I DON'T doubt it was secret. I DON'T even doubt that they created a myth, even to the level of that movie, to cover up the truth.

        Unless the US was willing to spend a FORTUNE to cover this up and all, the idea of bodies melting into the ship and ever is PROVEN FALSE! They sold the ship to Greece! And the idea that it went back in time, etc? FORGET IT!

        Steve
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        • Profile picture of the author HeySal
          Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

          The movie takes liberties! It takes a LOT of liberties! As for the REAL story? I don't doubt they tried to make it invisible to radar, and possibly more. I DON'T doubt people may have died. I DON'T doubt it was secret. I DON'T even doubt that they created a myth, even to the level of that movie, to cover up the truth.

          Unless the US was willing to spend a FORTUNE to cover this up and all, the idea of bodies melting into the ship and ever is PROVEN FALSE! They sold the ship to Greece! And the idea that it went back in time, etc? FORGET IT!

          Steve
          If they did do something like this, you can bet they'd be willing to spend for the cover up - whether it worked or not. Right.

          As far as sending it back in time? That's not a cloaking or invisibility experiment - that's a time travel experiment. Would they have tried that and let people think it was invisibility they were tampering with? Never under estimate what can be done with massive amounts of money, power, and intelligence involved.
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          • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
            Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

            If they did do something like this, you can bet they'd be willing to spend for the cover up - whether it worked or not. Right.

            As far as sending it back in time? That's not a cloaking or invisibility experiment - that's a time travel experiment. Would they have tried that and let people think it was invisibility they were tampering with? Never under estimate what can be done with massive amounts of money, power, and intelligence involved.
            The Tesla coil uses cycling magnetic fields that also produce electrical discharges and ultra high frequencies, (but being locked in metal rooms, the electrical discharges didn't pose a problem).

            So in the case of the Phil, experiment, (which supposedly used 2 to 4) they fed off each other and created an energy pattern around the ship, that made it invisible and possibly more.

            As you have said all matter is energy waves, so if they are in the vicinity of some device that created untra high frequencies, then who knows what would happen?

            A unified field theory is plausible, since we don't know what gravity is, and electricity and magnetism are one and the same!

            Maybe electricity, magnetism, gravity and time are one and the same, it just takes the right device to bring it out, (like moving a magnet past a copper coil to create a current).

            Since Tesla did notice strange time effects with his generator, opens up the Phil, experiment as being more likely than less.


            Some here might hide behind intellectual labels to cover up the fact that they find the while subject disturbing. I do as well, but this is also a fascinating subject that deserves further Intelligent discussion.

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              • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
                True, that the source might be considered iffy, but if some of the info, can be backup with papers, etc, then it should be a good read. Thanks, Peter!

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                • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                  That's a strange article - old house, in 2004, green mist in corner of room and a voice says 'beware 2005' or some such thing. No person seen but there was an old photo so voice MUST have come from that photo.

                  And since the photo was of sailors and the persons who heard it had just been reading the article author's accts of the Philadelphia Experiment...it MUST be related to that.

                  And so it's labeled "new evidence"....to which I say okie-dokie.

                  Before you blast me - I don't discount all "voices/esp/etc". I've had experiences with it myself. What I discount is the tendency to interpret it in a way that fits a certain narrative and then calling it "evidence".
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                  • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                    Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                    Before you blast me - I don't discount all "voices/esp/etc". I've had experiences with it myself. What I discount is the tendency to interpret it in a way that fits a certain narrative and then calling it "evidence".
                    Why would anyone blast you? You're one of the most rational people here.

                    Kay; I've had experiences before as well. And we are hard wired to think that they are of anthropomorphic origin. The urge to add agency (intelligent, human like origin) to smells, sounds, sights..is overwhelming.

                    Even now, if I'm tired...I'm convinced that I hear voices at night, sometimes music. Sometimes I am absolutely sure someone is in the house. And occasionally, that someone is standing right beside me...an invisible entity.

                    Intellectually, I am 100% positive that these are false readings. But that doesn't stop my brain from making me feel like these things are absolutely real. Brain pathologists and neurologists even know what causes these things to manifest, what part of the brain is active, the evolutionary advantage these thoughts give us, and they can duplicate these effects in the lab....by stimulating various centers of the brain.

                    It's a very odd experience to know something is not real, but be absolutely convinced that it is.

                    This is just my experience, and what I've learned and deduced. Maybe I'm just a computer program, that likes donuts. But if I'm just a computer program, how can I explain Kurt?...evil.....merciless...Kurt.

                    Oh, you may find this interesting. For the last several years, every night, I go to bed absolutely convinced that I'm going to die in my sleep. It doesn't frighten me, I'm not anxious...but I'm sure that I will never wake up again. Every night.

                    At exactly the same time, I know it isn't true. I talked to a psychologist friend of mine, who is interested in my pathology (and my marketing). He told me that the reason I have these simultaneous conflicting thoughts is that I have a bad connection between my hippocampus , and my neo-cortex. Most people would experience my situation as severe depression. But it's just a strongly felt intellectual curiosity to me.
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                    • Profile picture of the author yukon
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                      Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                      But if I'm just a computer program, how can I explain Kurt...evil.....merciless...Kurt.
                      What is virus, for $500 Alex?
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                      • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
                        Originally Posted by yukon View Post

                        What is virus, for $500 Alex?
                        Claude's programming was done by Adoughbe
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                      • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
                        Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                        That's a strange article - old house, in 2004, green mist in corner of room and a voice says 'beware 2005' or some such thing. No person seen but there was an old photo so voice MUST have come from that photo.

                        And since the photo was of sailors and the persons who heard it had just been reading the article author's accts of the Philadelphia Experiment...it MUST be related to that.

                        And so it's labeled "new evidence"....to which I say okie-dokie.

                        Before you blast me - I don't discount all "voices/esp/etc". I've had experiences with it myself. What I discount is the tendency to interpret it in a way that fits a certain narrative and then calling it "evidence".
                        Yes, exactly, it seems that if l post anything like this, then it is nonsence, and if you post esp, then it is interpreted in another way?

                        It looks like some here need a course in manners?



                        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                        Why would anyone blast you? You're one of the most rational people here.

                        Kay; I've had experiences before as well. And we are hard wired to think that they are of anthropomorphic origin. The urge to add agency (intelligent, human like origin) to smells, sounds, sights..is overwhelming.

                        Even now, if I'm tired...I'm convinced that I hear voices at night, sometimes music. Sometimes I am absolutely sure someone is in the house. And occasionally, that someone is standing right beside me...an invisible entity.

                        Intellectually, I am 100% positive that these are false readings. But that doesn't stop my brain from making me feel like these things are absolutely real. Brain pathologists and neurologists even know what causes these things to manifest, what part of the brain is active, the evolutionary advantage these thoughts give us, and they can duplicate these effects in the lab....by stimulating various centers of the brain.

                        It's a very odd experience to know something is not real, but be absolutely convinced that it is.

                        This is just my experience, and what I've learned and deduced. Maybe I'm just a computer program, that likes donuts. But if I'm just a computer program, how can I explain Kurt?...evil.....merciless...Kurt.

                        Oh, you may find this interesting. For the last several years, every night, I go to bed absolutely convinced that I'm going to die in my sleep. It doesn't frighten me, I'm not anxious...but I'm sure that I will never wake up again. Every night.

                        At exactly the same time, I know it isn't true. I talked to a psychologist friend of mine, who is interested in my pathology (and my marketing). He told me that the reason I have these simultaneous conflicting thoughts is that I have a bad connection between my hippocampus , and my neo-cortex. Most people would experience my situation as severe depression. But it's just a strongly felt intellectual curiosity to me.
                        Yes, 100% certain because you want it to be that way, based on known laws, or personal experiences.

                        And if individuals here see or experience something weird it has to be related to current physical laws.

                        And if physical laws can be fooled or bent or dug under, then that will be outside of your comprehension, and hold society back in regards to progress for countless years!

                        You might see a moving chair as a strong wind blowing or something, (anything else) others see it at face value or another way, that doesn't make it stupid or them as being naive, because their views don't fit yours, just different!

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                        • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                          Originally Posted by tagiscom View Post

                          Yes, 100% certain because you want it to be that way, based on known laws, or personal experiences.
                          No. My personal experience (as described in my last post), was completely different from my knowledge of physical laws. And that's what the entire post was all about.



                          There, Riffle.
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                          • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
                            Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                            No. My personal experience is completely different from my knowledge of physical laws. And that's what the entire post was all about.

                            So, you don't have personal experiences that support physical laws?
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                            • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                              I don't understand why someone would feel the need to argue over a 60 year old story that has been dismissed as a fraud by all but the people who first promoted it and people who had something to gain by promoting it.

                              It makes no sense to me that someone would insult people here to promote a 60 year old conspiracy...but have at it.
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                            • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                              Originally Posted by Dan Riffle View Post

                              So, you don't have personal experiences that support physical laws?

                              Dan; I know you were playing with me, because my post wasn't well written. And I just changed my last post to make it clearer. And the post I wrote before that, cited specific instances.


                              Hippo Campus.....Jesus.......
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                              • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                                I just changed my last post to make it clearer. And the post I wrote before that
                                So - you want to be editor-in-chief of the Hippo Campus weekly?
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                                • Profile picture of the author yukon
                                  Banned
                                  Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                                  So - you want to be editor-in-chief of the Hippo Campus weekly?



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                                • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
                                  Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                                  So - you want to be editor-in-chief of the Hippo Campus weekly?
                                  Back in the day at that College, Claude smoked weed, wore his hair long and went to anti-war peace rallies. He was known as the Hippypotomass
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                                  • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                                    He had hair?
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                                    • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
                                      Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                                      He had hair?
                                      Oh yes, lots of it, here's an early photo.

                                      Get A Haircut Ya Hippie | Random Overload
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                                      • Profile picture of the author Kurt
                                        Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

                                        Back in the day at that College, Claude smoked weed, wore his hair long and went to anti-war peace rallies. He was known as the Hippypotomass
                                        Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                                        He had hair?
                                        I assumed Lanfear was using the singular for "hair", not the plural. In other words, Claude had A long hair.
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                                        • Profile picture of the author discrat
                                          Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

                                          I assumed Lanfear was using the singular for "hair", not the plural. In other words, Claude had A long hair.
                                          Yeah just keep this in Mind when Claude says he got a "hair cut " ...he is being literal
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                                          • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
                                            Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

                                            It's up to those with a "different slant" to prove the laws of physics are incorrect. If you are going to disagree with the likes of Einstein and Newton, the burden of proof is up to you. Simply saying they could be wrong isn't good enough. It needs serious evidence.


                                            Again, your "logic" is that since something can be wrong everything is possible. No, it's not. And even if it was, it's up to you to offer more proof than "things can be wrong".


                                            Is it possible that the Einsteins and Newtons were correct and you're the person that's wrong?
                                            No, l am not saying that everything is possible, only that a closed mind while grandstanding that fact achieves little in the way of proof or progress.

                                            Unless you want to feel good about being closed minded, then it achieves volumes.


                                            I am also not saying that Einstein, etc is wrong only that they didn't have the whole picture. Or maybe Einstein did, and had to keep quiet.


                                            Warp speed doesn't break Einsteins laws, just finds a clever way around it, (if it works). But some here, will assume that it won't work, and forget about it, but, what if it actually works????

                                            Then all the "Critical thinking in the world, isn't high IQ thinking at all, just the opposite"!

                                            I am astounded that some here can believe that a closed mind can be considered super smart, but l suppose that l shouldn't be that surprised by now!



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                                            • Profile picture of the author whateverpedia
                                              Originally Posted by tagiscom View Post

                                              I am astounded that some here can believe that a closed mind can be considered super smart
                                              And yet whenever the subject of climate change comes up, you post rolly eyed smilies along with a comment denying it's existence.

                                              Despite overwhelming evidence in support of it, you consider it to be bunk, whereas you accuse others of being stupid because they don't swallow blindly things that can never be proven.

                                              Now that truly is a closed mind.
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                                              • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
                                                Originally Posted by whateverpedia View Post

                                                And yet whenever the subject of climate change comes up, you post rolly eyed smilies along with a comment denying it's existence.

                                                Despite overwhelming evidence in support of it, you consider it to be bunk, whereas you accuse others of being stupid because they don't swallow blindly things that can never be proven.

                                                Now that truly is a closed mind.
                                                Never be proven,....making 3 or 4 Tessler coils or finding someone who did, and mimicking the Phil, experiment. Doesn't seem impossible only difficult and dangerous if safeguards aren't adhered to!

                                                It is assuming that it won't do anything, that reflects previous remarks!

                                                No one can be 100% certain; action and testing shows truth, not assuming!


                                                And there is overwhelming evidence not in support of it, (MMGW)! If you can bring up all the evidence not in support of MMGW, and show that it is false, then l would believe it!

                                                I certainly believe in GW, the Earth has been warming and cooling for millions of years, but man made to near extinction levels, not really!

                                                I certainly did a 180, on the Earth core post when others showed that it couldn't be what l thought might be plausible. I didn't adhere to my assumptions, when the credible evidence stacked up against me.

                                                But the evidence needs to be credible, and believable, with little to no gaping holes.

                                                The Phil, experiment, has the recent scientist, (videos above) that likely confirm some of the things that happened, and Tesslers reports and Einstein being involved with it.

                                                There seems to be enough evidence there for further discussion. Not a this is crap, and l am smart statement!

                                                If anyone here thinks that this is nonsence, then that is your belief, and you should ignore this thread.

                                                But if you go on to say, that l am super smart since l know, that this subject is nonsense, (with zero research or testing) then for individuals who believe that it is possible, (or some of it is based on what they have seen) is sending a clear message that these individuals believe that they are above them!

                                                Unless proven wrong, then they seem to shy away from the subject like the plague.

                                                No, l just wanted intelligent open discussion not, soapboxing, chestbeating, l am smart and you are not statements!

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                                            • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                                              Originally Posted by tagiscom View Post


                                              Then all the "Critical thinking in the world, isn't high IQ thinking at all, just the opposite"!
                                              Critical thinking and high IQ aren't the same thing. Critical thinking is a skill. IQ is capacity, and efficiency.

                                              Are you trying to say that critical thinking and high IQ are the opposite? They are not. They are related. Having intelligence is necessary for critical thinking, because dumb people can't grasp the skill...the process. And it isn't how they think.

                                              Geniuses have critical thinking skills, otherwise they wouldn't be able to get the IQ scores on the tests.
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                                            • Profile picture of the author Kurt
                                              Originally Posted by tagiscom View Post

                                              No, l am not saying that everything is possible, only that a closed mind while grandstanding that fact achieves little in the way of proof or progress.

                                              Unless you want to feel good about being closed minded, then it achieves volumes.


                                              I am also not saying that Einstein, etc is wrong only that they didn't have the whole picture. Or maybe Einstein did, and had to keep quiet.


                                              Warp speed doesn't break Einsteins laws, just finds a clever way around it, (if it works). But some here, will assume that it won't work, and forget about it, but, what if it actually works????

                                              Then all the "Critical thinking in the world, isn't high IQ thinking at all, just the opposite"!

                                              I am astounded that some here can believe that a closed mind can be considered super smart, but l suppose that l shouldn't be that surprised by now!



                                              I have an open mind. And it's a mind that needs proof, not fantasy. You have offered zero proof. All you do is hurl accusations that anyone that doesn't agree with you has a closed mind.


                                              BTW, given the choice between having a "closed mind" and being gullible, I'll chose the closed mind any day.


                                              Or maybe Einstein did, and had to keep quiet.

                                              Another wild claim...Got any proof or are we going to play "maybe games"? Maybe Einstein was accurate? Maybe Einstein would have felt Claude was svelte? Maybe Einstein predicted I would be born and be the smartest person ever to live? How do you know none of these things are correct, or do you have a closed mind?


                                              Logic is your friend. Ancient Greeks understood logic and it's been used the greatest minds since ancient times. Try it some time.
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                                              • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
                                                Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

                                                Maybe Einstein would have felt Claude was svelte?
                                                Now that's impossible!




                                                Hi Claude.
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                                                • Profile picture of the author Kurt
                                                  Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

                                                  Now that's impossible!

                                                  .
                                                  My point exactly.
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                                                    • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
                                                      Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                                                      Critical thinking and high IQ aren't the same thing. Critical thinking is a skill. IQ is capacity, and efficiency.

                                                      Are you trying to say that critical thinking and high IQ are the opposite? They are not. They are related. Having intelligence is necessary for critical thinking, because dumb people can't grasp the skill...the process. And it isn't how they think.

                                                      Geniuses have critical thinking skills, otherwise they wouldn't be able to get the IQ scores on the tests.
                                                      Ok, and Einstein barely passed an IQ test. He was able to come up with new ideas through a combination of critical and other skills, (imagination being one).

                                                      If critical thinking only allows for known laws, and nothing else then it might work for some scientists and not for others. Depends on that they are doing.

                                                      The scientist that played around with warp drive certainly didn't' apply critical thinking he was just mucking around and was able to get the energy from Jupiter planet output to ship level.

                                                      And yes, NASA has said that it is theoretically possible, eventhough it is pushy those rigid laws.


                                                      Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

                                                      I have an open mind. And it's a mind that needs proof, not fantasy. You have offered zero proof. All you do is hurl accusations that anyone that doesn't agree with you has a closed mind.


                                                      BTW, given the choice between having a "closed mind" and being gullible, I'll chose the closed mind any day.

                                                      Another wild claim...Got any proof or are we going to play "maybe games"? Maybe Einstein was accurate? Maybe Einstein would have felt Claude was svelte? Maybe Einstein predicted I would be born and be the smartest person ever to live? How do you know none of these things are correct, or do you have a closed mind?


                                                      Logic is your friend. Ancient Greeks understood logic and it's been used the greatest minds since ancient times. Try it some time.
                                                      Zero proof! Videos are better than hearsay!


                                                      And if someone says my post is nonsense, and someone else mentions esp, and is welcomed, then l didn't shoot first!!!

                                                      Yes, logic can be used, but without intuition Kirk and his ship would have been toast a long time ago!


                                                      Originally Posted by Gijsbertus View Post

                                                      Thanks, but l posted that one.


                                                      Ok, l have read the other links above, and l agree that this is almost debunked, but not quite.


                                                      The Lost Journals of Nikola Tesla - 01

                                                      Good to see that a genius was into stupid things!

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                                                      • Profile picture of the author whateverpedia
                                                        Originally Posted by tagiscom View Post

                                                        Zero proof! Videos are better than hearsay!
                                                        Oops, sorry Dennis. After discovering the above, your post has had to be relegated to second funniest post in this thread.
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                                                        • Profile picture of the author Kurt
                                                          Originally Posted by whateverpedia View Post

                                                          Oops, sorry Dennis. After discovering the above, your post has had to be relegated to second funniest post in this thread.
                                                          Actually, I like the one where Shane uses Captain Kirk's intuition over logic. There's nothing like a fictitious character to prove reality.


                                                          BTW, as an ex semi-pro gambler, I'll take math and probability over intuition any day. Anyone that disagrees care to meet me in Las Vegas?
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                                                          • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                                                            Eintein "barely passed"? At least use arguments that make sense.

                                                            Einstein's IQ was estimated 160-190...don't know if he was ever fully tested - and it's not a pass/fail test.

                                                            It's unclear how high his IQ was - but 160 (the lowest estimate) is genius level.

                                                            There is no such thing as "warp speed" - it's said to be 'hypothetically' possible but it doesn't exist in the real world.

                                                            without intuition Kirk and his ship would have been toast a long time ago!
                                                            With logic you know there's no Kirk, no ship, and no toast - it's fiction.
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                                                          • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
                                                            Originally Posted by whateverpedia View Post

                                                            At the bottom of the article linked to above, there is a "return" link. Clicking that takes you through to a page with the following information (with bolding added by me to emphasise the key points):

                                                            That probably took me less time to find than it did for you to post your link.

                                                            EDIT UPDATE: Shane stated that he originally posted the same link.

                                                            Well, well, well,

                                                            Have a guess what caused me to click on that "return" link?

                                                            That's right - critical thinking.
                                                            Ok, one point for logic!

                                                            And one review from one individual who clearly already made their mind up before reading it.


                                                            Originally Posted by whateverpedia View Post

                                                            In other threads you have stated how much you hate "hippies" and yet...




                                                            Which lends support to what Formal Shorts wrote about you not understanding the subject(s) you champion.
                                                            Hippies as in tree hugging, drug taking, free love, blah, blah, of course, unless everyone here thinks that drug addicts are wonderful????

                                                            Well, l have had more new age experiences than you obviously have had, so can see that this isn't as far fetched as it looks!


                                                            Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

                                                            Actually, I like the one where Shane uses Captain Kirk's intuition over logic. There's nothing like a fictitious character to prove reality.


                                                            BTW, as an ex semi-pro gambler, I'll take math and probability over intuition any day. Anyone that disagrees care to meet me in Las Vegas?
                                                            True, l used it yesterday on a scratchy and won $8, so it obviously doesn't work!

                                                            And to be honest l did buy $8 worth or two scratchys, but l knew which one had something. Critical thinking, right!

                                                            As for intuition, (or sixth sense is more accurate) the number of individuals who have used it to avoid disasters, is countless, unless you rely on logic alone, then stepping onto the wrong plane, or driving the car at the wrong time, is pure luck!

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                                                            • Profile picture of the author whateverpedia
                                                              Originally Posted by tagiscom View Post

                                                              Hippies as in tree hugging, drug taking, free love, blah, blah, of course, unless everyone here thinks that drug addicts are wonderful????
                                                              Most drug addicts would be highly offended if you called them hippies.

                                                              Hippies are into marijuana (non-addictive) and "mind expanding" drugs such as LSD (once again non-addictive).

                                                              Free love? I know plenty of promiscuous people who hate hippies more than the most rabid of rednecks.

                                                              Tree hugging? Are you referring to the forms of life that provide the oxygen you need to stay alive. Everyone should "hug a tree", because without them we will all die.

                                                              The main thing they're into though is peace. From your anti-hippy stance one can only assume that you are pro-war. Is that right?

                                                              Were you aware also that the New Age movement actually evolved from the hippy subculture? Apparently not.

                                                              ... but it would be many former members of the counter-culture and hippy subculture who subsequently became early adherents of the New Age movement. Source
                                                              Oh and BTW - is your hair long, or is it the more conservative "short back and sides"?
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                                                              • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
                                                                Originally Posted by whateverpedia View Post

                                                                Plus there's the fact that everyone is a genius at something. I personally know people who if you give them a guitar, can perform miracles, yet they struggle with the concept of lace up shoes.

                                                                As Einstein himself said:



                                                                And yes Shane, you too are a genius at something. It's just not the ability to use critical thought to distinguish between fact and fiction
                                                                Yes, l agree critical thought in the pure sense of the word.

                                                                An individual that thinks in a purely logical way, would never have experienced the stuff l have experienced, and as such would see the Phil, experiment as a legend.

                                                                Logical thought can still be used to explain things that logical thought wouldn't see, so a bit of both is needed to understand the world.


                                                                Originally Posted by whateverpedia View Post

                                                                Most drug addicts would be highly offended if you called them hippies.

                                                                Hippies are into marijuana (non-addictive) and "mind expanding" drugs such as LSD (once again non-addictive).

                                                                Free love? I know plenty of promiscuous people who hate hippies more than the most rabid of rednecks.

                                                                Tree hugging? Are you referring to the forms of life that provide the oxygen you need to stay alive. Everyone should "hug a tree", because without them we will all die.

                                                                The main thing they're into though is peace. From your anti-hippy stance one can only assume that you are pro-war. Is that right?

                                                                Were you aware also that the New Age movement actually evolved from the hippy subculture? Apparently not.

                                                                Oh and BTW - is your hair long, or is it the more conservative "short back and sides?
                                                                Highly offended! I thought that they would take it as a compliment. At least hippies don't urinate on front laws, rob houses to fuel their habbit, and take drugs that are slowly destroying their health and will end in death or close to it.

                                                                Pro war, no!

                                                                Well there is tree huggers, and the ones that chain themselves to machinery. Too fanatical for my taste.

                                                                Long hair, LOL, lets just say l am into new age stuff, and leave it at that!

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                                                                • Profile picture of the author HeySal
                                                                  Originally Posted by tagiscom View Post

                                                                  Yes, l agree critical thought in the pure sense of the word.

                                                                  An individual that thinks in a purely logical way, would never have experienced the stuff l have experienced, and as such would see the Phil, experiment as a legend.

                                                                  Logical thought can still be used to explain things that logical thought wouldn't see, so a bit of both is needed to understand the world.




                                                                  Highly offended! I thought that they would take it as a compliment. At least hippies don't urinate on front laws, rob houses to fuel their habbit, and take drugs that are slowly destroying their health and will end in death or close to it.

                                                                  Pro war, no!

                                                                  Well there is tree huggers, and the ones that chain themselves to machinery. Too fanatical for my taste.

                                                                  Long hair, LOL, lets just say l am into new age stuff, and leave it at that!

                                                                  Shane - I have no clue what a hippie is over there - but it's NOT what they are over here. During the late 60's early 70's they did a lot of drugs but that has chilled with the hippie crowd now.

                                                                  Tree hugging? You call yourself into new age stuff and don't understand the importance of "tree hugging"? Really? I thought you were all logical about energy and knew all about it. I suppose a proven idea of energy - that walking barefoot in grass grounds electromagnetism is a joke, too? Where is your logic now? You think telepathy is real - yet don't understand the principles of nature immersion? Really? You can't have telepathy without energy transference, yet nature doesn't consist of it? Synergy? Come on - what's this about?

                                                                  Over here, hippies smoke some dope, sure. They also farm organically, believe in saving ecosystems (which keep us alive at all since we are part of them), they believe in energy transference, and spiritual existence. Minimalists rather than brain dead consumers. You find that bad? Were you aware that I'm the type that people refer to as "hippie" over here? Sweet to be thought of as a drug addicted social leech - I will sure wear the "tree hugger" label though, and wear it with pride.

                                                                  Honestly, Shane - If you are going to toot your horn about your knowledge of science and logic, you have to get with the general principles of logic and science.

                                                                  Exactly what do you think it was that happens when you remove something from physical spatial existence to make it invisible? When invisibility is a function of bending light around an object, how can you even talk seriously about something that takes something out of physical spatial existence being an "invisibility" experiment? To even start to talk seriously about this experiment, the real goal would have to be other than invisibility - so what was it? Teleportation? Time travel? I've not seen anything about this experiment written that makes one damned bit of "logical" sense. I can't put my foot down with a 100% yay or nay - because I'm not a physicist nor have I studied relevant documentation, but someone would have to make a lot more sense of what the goal was of what was being done for me to bend to actually thinking about it for any period of time.
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                                                                  • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
                                                                    Originally Posted by Doran Peck View Post

                                                                    I didn't take it as rude...I was surprised my question was labeled as nonsense. In my mind it sounded like a pretty significant point.

                                                                    How exactly does it get to the future?....uh...just because we want it to go to the future? ...uh ..because I tapped my ruby slippers three times?

                                                                    You cant build a physical craft that's expected to perform some sort of travel, without first knowing what your dealing with and where your going, and what specifically you need the craft to do to be able to get there.

                                                                    did that explain it any better?

                                                                    also...thanks for not having me on Ignore.
                                                                    Yes, it is stated that the Roswell craft was from our future, or 15,000 years. And they came back to fix something, but crashed and made things worse?

                                                                    Obviously l can't confirm that story, but possible, 15,000 years is a long time. Our tech, would be at waving a magic wand around level of tech, by then.

                                                                    It is also possible that if time, gravity and electricity are one and the same, that a devise could affect this?

                                                                    If time is a force like electricity, then it is more than possible.


                                                                    Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

                                                                    Shane - I have no clue what a hippie is over there - but it's NOT what they are over here. During the late 60's early 70's they did a lot of drugs but that has chilled with the hippie crowd now.

                                                                    Tree hugging? You call yourself into new age stuff and don't understand the importance of "tree hugging"? Really? I thought you were all logical about energy and knew all about it. I suppose a proven idea of energy - that walking barefoot in grass grounds electromagnetism is a joke, too? Where is your logic now? You think telepathy is real - yet don't understand the principles of nature immersion? Really? You can't have telepathy without energy transference, yet nature doesn't consist of it? Synergy? Come on - what's this about?
                                                                    No, you are right l have been dealing with these Spocks in Training over here for too long, need to get back to New Age concepts, (l am joining a group soon).

                                                                    Tree hugging is fine, well as long as someone doesn't overdo it?

                                                                    Over here, hippies smoke some dope, sure. They also farm organically, believe in saving ecosystems (which keep us alive at all since we are part of them), they believe in energy transference, and spiritual existence. Minimalists rather than brain dead consumers. You find that bad? Were you aware that I'm the type that people refer to as "hippie" over here? Sweet to be thought of as a drug addicted social leech - I will sure wear the "tree hugger" label though, and wear it with pride.

                                                                    Honestly, Shane - If you are going to toot your horn about your knowledge of science and logic, you have to get with the general principles of logic and science.
                                                                    Ok, fair enough, sorry if l went overboard with this. I have certainly been called a hippy, (probably barbecue of my ponytail) on occasion.

                                                                    Exactly what do you think it was that happens when you remove something from physical spatial existence to make it invisible? When invisibility is a function of bending light around an object, how can you even talk seriously about something that takes something out of physical spatial existence being an "invisibility" experiment? To even start to talk seriously about this experiment, the real goal would have to be other than invisibility - so what was it? Teleportation? Time travel? I've not seen anything about this experiment written that makes one damned bit of "logical" sense. I can't put my foot down with a 100% yay or nay - because I'm not a physicist nor have I studied relevant documentation, but someone would have to make a lot more sense of what the goal was of what was being done for me to bend to actually thinking about it for any period of time.
                                                                    Yes, but some here think that they understand the lot, and then knock anyone who believes that there could be some truth to it.



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                                                    • Profile picture of the author whateverpedia
                                                      Originally Posted by Gijsbertus View Post

                                                      At the bottom of the article linked to above, there is a "return" link. Clicking that takes you through to a page with the following information (with bolding added by me to emphasise the key points):

                                                      DISCLAIMER: The following material is primarily derived from the book The Montauk Project, written by Preston B. Nichols and Peter Moon. The book gives the supposed history of several government projects, starting with the infamous "Philadelphia Experiment" conducted in August of 1943.

                                                      Although the book tries to pass itself off as a 'non-fiction' examination, it is painfully obvious (to me anyway) that most of the content is pseudoscientific gibberish. This article is an attempt to present the information contained in the book in a manner usable with the Hero Role-Playing System.

                                                      It is not, by any stretch of the imagination, meant to be considered a presentation of 'what really happened'.

                                                      So, with that in mind, read on and enjoy.
                                                      That probably took me less time to find than it did for you to post your link.

                                                      EDIT UPDATE: Shane stated that he originally posted the same link.

                                                      Well, well, well,

                                                      Have a guess what caused me to click on that "return" link?

                                                      That's right - critical thinking.
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                                                  • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
                                                    Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

                                                    My point exactly.
                                                    I was clarifying it for Claude.
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                                                    • Profile picture of the author Formal Shorts
                                                      tagiscom - I take your point that many people will ridicule the notion of the PE based on nothing but perceived common sense. It's a valid point. However, your support for it is based around a couple of claims from supposed experts (and ignoring the claims of many, many more experts). Can you honestly say you understand the concepts at play? I don't doubt you've read about them, but do you understand them enough to comment on them critically?


                                                      You've previously made suggestions about scientists thinking the world was flat and scientists thinking that planes couldn't fly etc. These were unfounded beliefs that were proven to be incorrect by critical thinkers, mathematicians and physicists. Your warp drive comment in this thread is a poor example - the theory does not actually involve breaking known universal laws.


                                                      I wonder, how many of your own criticisms of others could be levelled at you? Do you understand the concepts you preach? Do you understand the science behind what you advocate? Or is it just second hand regurgitation? I ask because I have a close friend, a physicist with qualifications coming out of his arse, that worked closely on the Rosetta Mission, and yet you speak with more confidence than he does on many issues.
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                                                      • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
                                                        Originally Posted by Formal Shorts View Post

                                                        tagiscom - I take your point that many people will ridicule the notion of the PE based on nothing but perceived common sense. It's a valid point. However, your support for it is based around a couple of claims from supposed experts (and ignoring the claims of many, many more experts). Can you honestly say you understand the concepts at play? I don't doubt you've read about them, but do you understand them enough to comment on them critically?


                                                        You've previously made suggestions about scientists thinking the world was flat and scientists thinking that planes couldn't fly etc. These were unfounded beliefs that were proven to be incorrect by critical thinkers, mathematicians and physicists. Your warp drive comment in this thread is a poor example - the theory does not actually involve breaking known universal laws.


                                                        I wonder, how many of your own criticisms of others could be levelled at you? Do you understand the concepts you preach? Do you understand the science behind what you advocate? Or is it just second hand regurgitation? I ask because I have a close friend, a physicist with qualifications coming out of his arse, that worked closely on the Rosetta Mission, and yet you speak with more confidence than he does on many issues.
                                                        No, l just get annoyed when individuals trash this subject, and seem to belittle individuals who believe in this sort of stuff!

                                                        No, warp drive doesn't, but some critical thinkers don't believe in it, so a good example?

                                                        Have l built a Tessler coil, no. Have l indirectly experienced some seriously weird stuff, that is related to the experiment, yes!

                                                        But clearly new age type stuff is hard to discuss here, without,.....!

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                                                        • Profile picture of the author whateverpedia
                                                          In other threads you have stated how much you hate "hippies" and yet...
                                                          Originally Posted by tagiscom View Post

                                                          But clearly new age type stuff is hard to discuss here, without,.....!


                                                          Which lends support to what Formal Shorts wrote about you not understanding the subject(s) you champion.
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                                              • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                                                Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

                                                Maybe Einstein predicted I would be born and be the smartest person ever to live? .
                                                I don't know if Einstein would have predicted that you would have been born. But geneticists for years have predicted that ...if you were born....your parents would be siblings.
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                                                • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
                                                  Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                                                  I don't know if Einstein would have predicted that you would have been born. But geneticists for years have predicted that ...if you were born....your parents would be siblings.
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                                                • Profile picture of the author Kurt
                                                  Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                                                  I don't know if Einstein would have predicted that you would have been born. But geneticists for years have predicted that ...if you were born....your parents would be siblings.
                                                  Prove it. This thread doesn't need any more unsubstantiated theories.
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                                    • Profile picture of the author yukon
                                      Banned
                                      Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                                      He had hair?
                                      Just the one long hare.





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                                      • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
                                        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                                        No. My personal experience (as described in my last post), was completely different from my knowledge of physical laws. And that's what the entire post was all about.



                                        There, Riffle.
                                        Ok, but as you have said all weird experiences have to be classified by known laws.

                                        Yes, known laws!

                                        Wouldn't it be a good idea to have more of an open mind, since there could be unknown laws floating about?

                                        Or at least acknowledge that individuals who have a different slant on things that are out there, as not being silly, but can see the tr....., see things differently?


                                        Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                                        I don't understand why someone would feel the need to argue over a 60 year old story that has been dismissed as a fraud by all but the people who first promoted it and people who had something to gain by promoting it.

                                        It makes no sense to me that someone would insult people here to promote a 60 year old conspiracy...but have at it.
                                        Yeah, l know Claude needs to stop making mass generalizations and Lord of the Manner remarks, and come down to earth a bit!

                                        And l am not defending this, just saying that without thorough testing of Tessler coils we don't know if there is something there or not?

                                        For someone here to say it is not, without being a mechanical engineer or at least some who has done substantial testing, l considering that to be a naive remark!



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                                        • Profile picture of the author Kurt
                                          Originally Posted by tagiscom View Post

                                          Ok, but as you have said all weird experiences have to be classified by known laws.

                                          Yes, known laws!

                                          Wouldn't it be a good idea to have more of an open mind, since there could be unknown laws floating about?

                                          Or at least acknowledge that individuals who have a different slant on things that are out there, as not being silly, but can see the tr....., see things differently?
                                          It's up to those with a "different slant" to prove the laws of physics are incorrect. If you are going to disagree with the likes of Einstein and Newton, the burden of proof is up to you. Simply saying they could be wrong isn't good enough. It needs serious evidence.


                                          Again, your "logic" is that since something can be wrong everything is possible. No, it's not. And even if it was, it's up to you to offer more proof than "things can be wrong".


                                          Is it possible that the Einsteins and Newtons were correct and you're the person that's wrong?
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                    • Profile picture of the author Kurt
                      Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post


                      At exactly the same time, I know it isn't true. I talked to a psychologist friend of mine, who is interested in my pathology (and my marketing). He told me that the reason I have these simultaneous conflicting thoughts is that I have a bad connection between my hippocampus , and my neo-cortex. Most people would experience my situation as severe depression. But it's just a strongly felt intellectual curiosity to me.
                      What does where you went to school have to do with anything?
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                      • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                        Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

                        What does where you went to school have to do with anything?
                        I can't believe I've never put that together. It's like walking into a brick wall.
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  • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
    I can confirm that Philadelphia Cream Cheese is delicious.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kurt
    I can confirm I've made more than one Philly Cheese Steak disappear.
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  • Profile picture of the author whateverpedia
    ^^^^^^^^^^

    Paranormal News - Your source for UFO and paranormal related information.

    Sounds like a reliable source to me.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kurt
    There was a place I lived in Las Vegas where I heard voices coming from the walls. It kind of creeped me out. However, since I'm skeptical about these types of things, I kept an open mind that it could be explained rationally.

    After a few years of hearing these voices, one day I had my sliding glass door open and heard the voices from the wall. But I also now heard the same voices coming from outside my home. Again, it was Las Vegas and my air conditioning unit was outside. A couple of people were standing next to the AC and their voices were coming through the ventilation to the inside and was coming out of my wall.

    Mystery solved.
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    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

      There was a place I lived in Las Vegas where I heard voices coming from the walls. It kind of creeped me out. However, since I'm skeptical about these types of things, I kept an open mind that it could be explained rationally.

      After a few years of hearing these voices, one day I had my sliding glass door open and heard the voices from the wall. But I also now heard the same voices coming from outside my home. Again, it was Las Vegas and my air conditioning unit was outside. A couple of people were standing next to the AC and their voices were coming through the ventilation to the inside and was coming out of my wall.

      Mystery solved.
      When I was maybe 8 years old, with a deeply religious Mom, I had an amplifier (for a guitar).
      One night, I heard a voice, clear as anything...coming from the amplifier. It went on for several minutes..and scared me to death. I asked my Mom what it was, and she told me it was demons, coming to get me. (Thanks, Mom)

      My Dad, who was far more sane, listened for a minute...started laughing, and said it was the air traffic controller from the nearby airport. Of course, the second he said that, it was obvious by what was being heard. But it sure scared my brother and me.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kurt
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  • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
    I'm surprised no one has mentioned this yet, but the ships name was the USS Eldridge, which sounds an awful lot like "eldritch" ...which means:

    1. suggesting the operation of supernatural influences
    2. weird and sinister or ghostly

    Coincidence? I think not! The Eldridge was probably the most closely named ship they had to the world eldritch, so that's the one they chose to conduct their weird experiment on. The connection is obvious.

    Furthermore, the Eldredge Knot is used by many scientists and government officials when they tie their ties. And Eldredge sounds an awful lot like Eldridge and eldritch! That's just too many coincidences to ignore!!!

    Oh, but it doesn't end there. There's a town in Iowa called Eldridge, and I've BEEN THERE! It's about as far from an ocean as you can get in the US, without measuring, but the Eldridge Tide and Pilot book has information on the tides from Halifax to Key West - the SAME coast as where the Philadelphia Experiment didn't happen!!!!!

    I rest my case.


    Sorry Shane, just having some fun.
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    • Profile picture of the author whateverpedia
      Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

      I'm surprised no one has mentioned this yet, but the ships name was the USS Eldridge, which sounds an awful lot like "eldritch" ...which means:

      1. suggesting the operation of supernatural influences
      2. weird and sinister or ghostly

      Coincidence? I think not! The Eldridge was probably the most closely named ship they had to the world eldritch, so that's the one they chose to conduct their weird experiment on. The connection is obvious.

      Furthermore, the Eldredge Knot is used by many scientists and government officials when they tie their ties. And Eldredge sounds an awful lot like Eldridge and eldritch! That's just too many coincidences to ignore!!!

      Oh, but it doesn't end there. There's a town in Iowa called Eldridge, and I've BEEN THERE! It's about as far from an ocean as you can get in the US, without measuring, but the Eldridge Tide and Pilot book has information on the tides from Halifax to Key West - the SAME coast as where the Philadelphia Experiment didn't happen!!!!!

      I rest my case.


      Sorry Shane, just having some fun.
      ROFLMAO. Best post in this thread so far.
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  • Profile picture of the author whateverpedia
    Plus there's the fact that everyone is a genius at something. I personally know people who if you give them a guitar, can perform miracles, yet they struggle with the concept of lace up shoes.

    As Einstein himself said:

    Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.
    And yes Shane, you too are a genius at something. It's just not the ability to use critical thought to distinguish between fact and fiction

    Edit Update: Apparently Einstein didn't actually say that, but it's a good saying anyway.
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  • Profile picture of the author Doran Peck
    Something always troubles me about time travel discussions and scientists who claim its theoretically possible.

    OK Mr. Scientist...we saw the water between us and the land far away, we figured out how to build a boat to traverse the water so we could reach the island. We saw the sky and built an airplane to conquer the sky and be as birds. We saw the moon and built a rocket to traverse space to get us to that moon.

    So...where exactly is the future located? You are talking about transporting physical, biological matter from point A to point B. You have to account for point B. Where is it?

    No scientist has ever answered that question.
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    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      Originally Posted by Doran Peck View Post

      Something always troubles me about time travel discussions and scientists who claim its theoretically possible.

      OK Mr. Scientist...we saw the water between us and the land far away, we figured out how to build a boat to traverse the water so we could reach the island. We saw the sky and built an airplane to conquer the sky and be as birds. We saw the moon and built a rocket to traverse space to get us to that moon.

      So...where exactly is the future located? You are talking about transporting physical, biological matter from point A to point B. You have to account for point B. Where is it?

      No scientist has ever answered that question.
      They haven't answered it, because it's a nonsense question.
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      • Profile picture of the author Doran Peck
        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

        They haven't answered it, because it's a nonsense question.
        Oh Really?

        Please explain.
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    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      I'll give it a shot. You said this.
      Originally Posted by Doran Peck View Post

      Something always troubles me about time travel discussions and scientists who claim its theoretically possible.

      OK Mr. Scientist...we saw the water between us and the land far away, we figured out how to build a boat to traverse the water so we could reach the island. We saw the sky and built an airplane to conquer the sky and be as birds. We saw the moon and built a rocket to traverse space to get us to that moon.

      So...where exactly is the future located? You are talking about transporting physical, biological matter from point A to point B. You have to account for point B. Where is it?


      No scientist has ever answered that question.
      Here is an analogy, using exactly the same type of "logic".

      When we talk to someone ....we can see them in front of us. When we throw something at them, they are in front of us. When they are out of sight, because of distance, we cannot talk to them, or throw objects at them. Therefore radio doesn't work, and the telephone won't work.

      See how ridiculous that sounds?

      Personally, I don't know if we could ever travel in time (like in a time machine). But your story has absolutely nothing to do with time travel,, or why it wouldn't work.
      Your question has nothing to do with time travel. And the analogy doesn't apply at all.

      By the way, where is the past located? Where is the present moment located? Where is 3PM located? See how nonsensical the questions are?

      I read my original response to your post, and it was kind of rude. I probably shouldn't have said anything. I really don't have the right to tell you what to think, or how to think. And you didn't ask for my input.

      But I have a pathological dislike for nonsensical arguments. And, in real life, I hear them on a non-stop basis. It's one of the main reasons I'm retiring soon.

      And since I don't have you on "Ignore" I saw your post. And, at that moment, I was weak. So I responded.
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      • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

        I probably shouldn't have said anything.

        Do the world a favor and make this your mantra.
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        • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
          Originally Posted by Dan Riffle View Post

          Do the world a favor and make this your mantra.
          For some reason, you seem to insult me at the same time every month. Coincidence? I think not.
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          • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
            Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

            For some reason, you seem to insult me at the same time every month. Coincidence? I think not.
            You should be thankful that Kurt and I offer 24 hour service.
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          • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
            Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

            For some reason, you seem to insult me at the same time every month. Coincidence? I think not.

            Your "understanding" of time and how it works is confounding.
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            • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
              Originally Posted by Dan Riffle View Post

              Your "understanding" of time and how it works is confounding.
              Yup, Once a month.....every month, between the 1st and the 28th...just like clockwork.





              ........and, I'll just add this to the incredibly long list of things that confound you. Let's see...
              Things That Confound Riffle..Volume 28..........
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      • Profile picture of the author Doran Peck
        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

        I'll give it a shot. You said this.

        Here is an analogy, using exactly the same type of "logic".

        When we talk to someone ....we can see them in front of us. When we throw something at them, they are in front of us. When they are out of sight, because of distance, we cannot talk to them, or throw objects at them. Therefore radio doesn't work, and the telephone won't work.

        See how ridiculous that sounds?

        Personally, I don't know if we could ever travel in time (like in a time machine). But your story has absolutely nothing to do with time travel,, or why it wouldn't work.
        Your question has nothing to do with time travel. And the analogy doesn't apply at all.

        By the way, where is the past located? Where is the present moment located? Where is 3PM located? See how nonsensical the questions are?

        I read my original response to your post, and it was kind of rude. I probably shouldn't have said anything. I really don't have the right to tell you what to think, or how to think. And you didn't ask for my input.

        But I have a pathological dislike for nonsensical arguments. And, in real life, I hear them on a non-stop basis. It's one of the main reasons I'm retiring soon.

        And since I don't have you on "Ignore" I saw your post. And, at that moment, I was weak. So I responded.
        I didn't take it as rude...I was surprised my question was labeled as nonsense. In my mind it sounded like a pretty significant point.

        Perhaps my analogy didn't express the view in my mind.

        The basic thing is we hear these scientists talk about time travel being possible, but they are talking about something no one really understands including them.

        Ive curiously read some of those articles and there is always talk about time slowing down or speeding up....worm holes...black holes...folding space...light speed.

        Ok so we build this thing...we install the flux capacitor, we put in the wormlyrom thing that lets us pass through a black hole, we load in the deluxe super button that gets us to light speed, we install the folderator modulator that bends space so we can get to the other side in a blink.

        ok now hit the switch and off to the future we go!!

        How exactly does it get to the future?....uh...just because we want it to go to the future? ...uh ..because I tapped my ruby slippers three times?

        You cant build a physical craft that's expected to perform some sort of travel, without first knowing what your dealing with and where your going, and what specifically you need the craft to do to be able to get there.

        did that explain it any better?

        also...thanks for not having me on Ignore.
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        • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
          Originally Posted by Doran Peck View Post

          How exactly does it get to the future?....uh...just because we want it to go to the future? ...uh ..because I tapped my ruby slippers three times?
          The only way I know of to travel to the future...is by living ...as time progresses. And moving through time faster, by time dilating, as we approach the speed of light. But getting in a machine, and 5 minutes later, be 1,000 years in the future? No idea.
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          • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
            Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

            By the way, where is the past located? Where is the present moment located?
            The past is mostly scattered around in the field of broken dreams, but the present moment is right here in Wisconsin. If you get up this way look me up and I'll show it to you.
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        • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
          Originally Posted by Doran Peck View Post

          I didn't take it as rude...I was surprised my question was labeled as nonsense. In my mind it sounded like a pretty significant point.

          Perhaps my analogy didn't express the view in my mind.

          The basic thing is we hear these scientists talk about time travel being possible, but they are talking about something no one really understands including them.

          Ive curiously read some of those articles and there is always talk about time slowing down or speeding up....worm holes...black holes...folding space...light speed.

          Ok so we build this thing...we install the flux capacitor, we put in the wormlyrom thing that lets us pass through a black hole, we load in the deluxe super button that gets us to light speed, we install the folderator modulator that bends space so we can get to the other side in a blink.

          ok now hit the switch and off to the future we go!!

          How exactly does it get to the future?....uh...just because we want it to go to the future? ...uh ..because I tapped my ruby slippers three times?

          You cant build a physical craft that's expected to perform some sort of travel, without first knowing what your dealing with and where your going, and what specifically you need the craft to do to be able to get there.

          did that explain it any better?

          also...thanks for not having me on Ignore.

          Some food for thought....

          Read this..

          "There Is No Such Thing As Time" | Popular Science

          And this..

          "The future is a concept, it doesn't exist. There is no such thing as tomorrow. There never will be, because time is always now. That's one of the things we discover when we stop talking to ourselves and stop thinking. We find there is only present, only an eternal now. - Alan Watts"

          Even if you are moving at or close to the speed of light "YOU" are only living in the/your moment, the NOW.

          One possibility for viewing or visiting the past or the future involves the concept of somehow stepping outside the physical universe and viewing it from a different dimension. This is more esoteric and involves either entertaining the survival of the consciousness outside the body, continuance after death etc, Or there are as yet undetected extra dimensions that somehow we will one day become aware of and be able to use in some way. All pretty far out stuff.

          I will add, that there is a plethora of stories about people periodically glimpsing, even interacting with different time frames. Like the case of the people in the car in the 1970's who stopped to aid a totally bewildered woman in 1940's dress in a car of that period. She saw them and looked puzzled at their futuristic looking car. She and her car then disappeared. People walking into stores and seeing it as it was in the 1930's, walking out and back in again and it's back to normal.

          There are many stories like this, brief little glimpses and interactions.

          Now just suspend disbelief for a minute, if there is any truth to this, what would it suggest? Perhaps, that all time, past present and future is happening in the Eternal Now, Sometimes it intersects, can be percieved, glimpsed, experienced. Perhaps you don't need a travelling machine. Just a shift in perception, either you just get lucky or may be able to one day, physically induce it.

          There, a tour of the Out There Idea's.
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          • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
            Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

            Some food for thought....

            Read this..

            "There Is No Such Thing As Time" | Popular Science

            And this..

            "The future is a concept, it doesn't exist. There is no such thing as tomorrow. There never will be, because time is always now. That's one of the things we discover when we stop talking to ourselves and stop thinking. We find there is only present, only an eternal now. - Alan Watts"
            My Friend...
            This story is true.

            My Dad died. My Mom was pretty shaken up. She was also religious, and I am not at all.
            After the service, she asked, "OK, so you think your Dad is gone forever?"

            It took a few second, but this is what I said.....

            "Mom, think of everyone on Earth, as millions of books in a giant library. Every book is full of the story of someone's life. So, some books are short, some long. Some are love stories, tragedies, mysteries, and epics.

            The book that is Dad's story, has just ended. The book is closed. But we can still remember the story. The story is still there..in the book. If I could step out of the book, and see the library, I would see Dad's book, still there. And in that way, I can say, "There he is. There's his life'. And to me, he is alive, in that story. And just because we can no longer read the story, doesn't mean it isn't there".

            She took it to mean something, and I let her think it.

            There is a strong argument to be made, that the universe is completely predictable. That at the moment of the Big Bang, the universe was set, from beginning to end. That everything was inevitable....even this post. A continuous series of causes and effects....actions and reactions.

            Do I believe it? Yes. Could my mind be changed? Yes, with a better argument.

            Anyway, your post triggered the memory.....as it was always going to.
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            • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
              Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

              My Friend...
              This story is true.

              My Dad died. My Mom was pretty shaken up. She was also religious, and I am not at all.
              After the service, she asked, "OK, so you think your Dad is gone forever?"

              It took a few second, but this is what I said.....

              "Mom, think of everyone on Earth, as millions of books in a giant library. Every book is full of the story of someone's life. So, some books are short, some long. Some are love stories, tragedies, mysteries, and epics.

              The book that is Dad's story, has just ended. The book is closed. But we can still remember the story. The story is still there..in the book. If I could step out of the book, and see the library, I would see Dad's book, still there. And in that way, I can say, "There he is. There's his life'. And to me, he is alive, in that story. And just because we can no longer read the story, doesn't mean it isn't there".

              She took it to mean something, and I let her think it.

              There is a strong argument to be made, that the universe is completely predictable. That at the moment of the Big Bang, the universe was set, from beginning to end. That everything was inevitable....even this post. A continuous series of causes and effects....actions and reactions.

              Do I believe it? Yes. Could my mind be changed? Yes, with a better argument.

              Anyway, your post triggered the memory.....as it was always going to.
              When the Big Bang occurred, it threw out all these exotic particles and mixed in was this mysterious force we call gravity that would make them eventually be attracted to each other. Rather than coagulate into amorphous, randomly shaped blobs of matter they formed into regular designs like a ball cluster or a spiral. Within these clusters, the particles sub divided themselves into smaller systems of collectiveness, stars, planets, solar systems formed, all fairly evenly spaced from each other so for a lot of the time, one would not interfere with each other.

              We see this everywhere we look, it is stunning in it's uniformity!

              While not trying to push grand design or the universe having some sort of consciousness or purpose, I still have to stand back and say in some awe, Interesting, Fascinating
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            • Profile picture of the author whateverpedia
              Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

              There is a strong argument to be made, that the universe is completely predictable. That at the moment of the Big Bang, the universe was set, from beginning to end. That everything was inevitable....even this post. A continuous series of causes and effects....actions and reactions.
              There's a a name for that argument, it's called Intelligent Design. I'd give it a lot more credence if I had more <ahem> faith in the people doing the arguing.
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              • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                Originally Posted by whateverpedia View Post

                There's a a name for that argument, it's called Intelligent Design. I'd give it a lot more credence if I had more <ahem> faith in the people doing the arguing.
                No. It isn't intelligent design at all. Being able to predict outcomes, has nothing to do with design. Random...unguided... events are completely predictable, if you have a clear enough history.
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                • Profile picture of the author whateverpedia
                  Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                  No. It isn't intelligent design at all. Being able to predict outcomes, has nothing to do with design. Random...unguided... events are completely predictable, if you have a clear enough history.
                  OK, I see your point now. I was focused on this part:

                  Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                  That at the moment of the Big Bang, the universe was set, from beginning to end.
                  Which, when read by itself, sounds exactly like Intelligent Design.

                  Carry on. As you were.
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  • Profile picture of the author dremy154
    My step dad, would have been 83 this year, had a friend who (also deceased) was an electrician in the Navy, and said it did happen. Given the depth of Tesla's knowledge and achievements, I am inclined to agree. Just MHO.
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    • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
      Originally Posted by dremy154 View Post

      My step dad, would have been 83 this year, had a friend who (also deceased) was an electrician in the Navy, and said it did happen. Given the depth of Tesla's knowledge and achievements, I am inclined to agree. Just MHO.
      An electrician eh, so was he "allegedly" directly involved? Is there a story here?
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      • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
        Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

        An electrician eh, so was he "allegedly" directly involved? Is there a story here?

        A Step Father....... who knew a guy...that said.....

        Third hand information is as good as gold to me. Don't be such a snit.
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    • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
      Originally Posted by dremy154 View Post

      My step dad, would have been 83 this year, had a friend who (also deceased) was an electrician in the Navy, and said it did happen. Given the depth of Tesla's knowledge and achievements, I am inclined to agree. Just MHO.
      Yes, any more info, this thread has just gone from "this is crap" to more substantial.

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      • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
        I didn't believe in Father Christmas until I was at the pub last night and a bloke said he once new a chap that saw Father Christmas enter his room when he was six and leave presents at the end of the bed. Incredibly Father Christmas looked like his Dad would have done with a big white beard which was proof that they were related, not to mention proof enough for me that Father Christmas is real.

        I'm sure being a good boy this year now I know that.
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    • Profile picture of the author HeySal
      Originally Posted by dremy154 View Post

      My step dad, would have been 83 this year, had a friend who (also deceased) was an electrician in the Navy, and said it did happen. Given the depth of Tesla's knowledge and achievements, I am inclined to agree. Just MHO.

      Since you obviously discussed this with someone actually alive then.........did they say what they thought the purpose of the experiment was - or have any other comments besides, yes, there was an experiment?

      You just made me wonder if my dad heard of this. He's 90 and was in WWII. I'm kinda interested in finding out what he has to say. He had some friends that were high level brass. Maybe he heard something.

      I'm not going to deny that it's more than likely that some major experiment was conducted during that period of time that went wrong. I don't think we have a real story of what went on and I don't think that the story given would jibe with "invisibility" - at all.

      Anyway - it would be interesting to find out what a fairly skeptical person that was actually around at the time has to say about this either way.
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    • Profile picture of the author PeterLarson
      Originally Posted by dremy154 View Post

      My step dad, would have been 83 this year, had a friend who (also deceased) was an electrician in the Navy, and said it did happen. Given the depth of Tesla's knowledge and achievements, I am inclined to agree. Just MHO.
      Very interesting and I am sure there are more people like you, but the people who had first hand experience or knew someone who was there are disappearing due to old age....
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      • Profile picture of the author discrat
        Quite remarkable how such an uninspiring Thread has remained active this long with over 3 pages now
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        • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
          OK, just read it all, fascinating, especially Einsteins involvement, and a long forgotten unified field theory.

          This is fascinating in its own right, and it does leave the Phil, door open, but doesn't confirm or dely it from taking place.

          Researching Naval employment records we find that Albert Einstein was hired as a Scientist for the Office of Naval Research (O.N.R.) on May 31, 1943, a post he maintained until June 30, 1944. Also on July 24, 1943, Einstein met with Naval Officers in his Princeton study--just three months prior to the Philadelphia Experiment.

          One way to cross the tremendous distances of space would be to alter the structure of space itself. This could be accomplished by modifying the space-time geometric matrix. It is this matrix that gives us the illusion of form and distance. One method of changing the matrix is through the modification of frequencies controlling the matter-antimatter cycles. These in turn control our perceptions of things existing in apparent space-time. Einstein's premise is that time is a geometric concept; therefore, if this could be altered, then all of the universe would become available to us at any single moment.

          In one second we could travel great distances, for at that point distance would be revealed as an illusion. According to a prevalent view, Time is the factor that keeps objects apart in space. With the possibility of moving from place to place in what is called "Zero Time", then both places exist in the same place according to our perception. By speeding up the geometric of time we are able to bring distant objects closer together. This is the secret of extra-terrestrial spacecraft; they travel by altering the space dimension by bringing time to zero.

          Einstein believed that physical matter was nothing more than a concentrated field of force. What we see visually as a physical substance is in actuality a combination (or four-dimensional matrix) of frequencies. Different frequencies combine in different ways thus creating different physical masses.

          These masses seem solid to us because we are also made up of similar wave-forms which vibrate within a defined band-width, and this band-width makes up the limited perspective of our visual, physical world.
          In the famous equation E = MC2, M, the value for mass, can be replaced by a value representing a specific waveform. According to Bruce Cathie's mathematics of the world grid, the substituted term is a function of the velocity of Light.
          Einstein E=MC2

          Cathie grid M=C+
          (1/C)

          Therefore E=(C+
          (1/C)) C2 → (Harmonic equation 1)
          Within this unified field equation, expressed in terms of pure electromagnetic energy, lies the key to the universe: the whole of existence, the seen and unseen, forms, solids, liquids and gases, the stars and the blackness of space itself. All is perceived 'to consist of visible and invisible waves of light. All of creation is Light.

          The earth is simply a huge magnet wound with magnetic lines of force. The coils are 1,725 cm2 in one direction and 1,850 cm2 in the other. These lines of force form a grid pattern due to the spin of our planet. At any given point there are a trillion lines of force crossing and creating small vortices. Each vortex manifests as an atomic structure and creates within itself a gravitational field. The gravitational field is nothing more than the effect of relative motion in space. Matter is drawn towards a gravitational field, just as a piece of wood is drawn into a whirlpool. The gravitational fields created by the vortexual action of every atom combine to form the complete field of our planet Earth. The lattice matrix of the world grid is the natural grid formed by these interlocking lines of force.

          (Editor's Note : Actually, the magnetic field density at the surface of the Earth, in gauss, is approximately 0.5 lines per cm2)

          The basic unit for harmonic calculation in relation to this grid is the geodetic inch, or 0.172 minutes of arc, one minute of arc being 6,000 geodetic feet. By taking the values of 1,725 and 1,850 per cm2 and calculating the field strengths for one square geodetic inch, the field density is found to be 8,326.71764 and 12,255.08864, respectively.



          When the fields are in opposition, the combined field density is 20,581.80628 for one square geodetic inch. The difference in field strengths is calculated to be 12,255.08864 minus 83,26.71764 which equals 3,928.371. From this we can say that the resultant field density one way is field A minus field B or 3,928.371 lines of force per cm2.
          Fascinating how this theory describes what Gravity is or could be. Not surprised that it is simple when understood!

          And that vast distances are an illusion.

          After the quotes above it gets too mathematical for me, but if you are into physics, just click on the link above, and let us know what you think?

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          • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
            Originally Posted by tagiscom View Post

            Researching Naval employment records we find that Albert Einstein was hired as a Scientist for the Office of Naval Research (O.N.R.) on May 31, 1943, a post he maintained until June 30, 1944. Also on July 24, 1943, Einstein met with Naval Officers in his Princeton study--just three months prior to the Philadelphia Experiment.

            One way to cross the tremendous distances of space would be to alter the structure of space itself. This could be accomplished by modifying the space-time geometric matrix. It is this matrix that gives us the illusion of form and distance. One method of changing the matrix is through the modification of frequencies controlling the matter-antimatter cycles. These in turn control our perceptions of things existing in apparent space-time. Einstein's premise is that time is a geometric concept; therefore, if this could be altered, then all of the universe would become available to us at any single moment.

            In one second we could travel great distances, for at that point distance would be revealed as an illusion. According to a prevalent view, Time is the factor that keeps objects apart in space. With the possibility of moving from place to place in what is called "Zero Time", then both places exist in the same place according to our perception. By speeding up the geometric of time we are able to bring distant objects closer together. This is the secret of extra-terrestrial spacecraft; they travel by altering the space dimension by bringing time to zero.

            Einstein believed that physical matter was nothing more than a concentrated field of force. What we see visually as a physical substance is in actuality a combination (or four-dimensional matrix) of frequencies. Different frequencies combine in different ways thus creating different physical masses.
            These masses seem solid to us because we are also made up of similar wave-forms which vibrate within a defined band-width, and this band-width makes up the limited perspective of our visual, physical world.
            Jesus Shane.....this stuff you quoted here is fevered nonsense you found on a blog in one of your "I am insane, but still know how to type" blogs.

            Please, before you die from old age..read a science book..just one...written by a real scientist... and stop reading these insane ridiculous blogs, written by sweaty unemployed middle aged men, still living with their mother.
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            • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
              Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

              Jesus Shane.....this stuff you quoted here is fevered nonsense you found on a blog in one of your "I am insane, but still know how to type" blogs.

              Please, before you die from old age..read a science book..just one...written by a real scientist... and stop reading these insane ridiculous blogs, written by sweaty unemployed middle aged men, still living with their mother.
              Gee, I didn't know that Einstein was a sweaty, unemployed middle aged man, still living with his mother?

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              • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                Originally Posted by tagiscom View Post

                Gee, I didn't know that Einstein was a sweaty, unemployed middle aged man, still living with his mother?


                Shane; Einstein didn't write the nonsensical blog. Just because the word "Einstein" is in a blog post, doesn't mean that blog post makes sense. And it doesn't mean Einstein wrote it.
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              • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
                Originally Posted by tagiscom View Post

                Gee, I didn't know that Einstein was a sweaty, unemployed middle aged man, still living with his mother?

                You have finally completely confounded Claude with Metaphysical Mathematics and interdimensional physics. This is, to be fair, completely out of the box thinking. It is looking at everything in an entirely different way and trying to make sense of it with out there mathematics and physics. While it is currently intangible, completely unproven and currently unprovable, I actually admire the completely different perspective and theorizing it represents.

                Complete trash or not, you WOULD have to have a pretty good understanding of physical science and quantum theory in order to pronounce upon it, even those who put it forward would if they were to have any chance of justifying it.
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                • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
                  Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

                  You have finally completely confounded Claude with Metaphysical Mathematics and interdimensional physics. This is, to be fair, completely out of the box thinking. It is looking at everything in an entirely different way and trying to make sense of it with out there mathematics and physics. While it is currently intangible, completely unproven and currently unprovable, I actually admire the completely different perspective and theorizing it represents.

                  Complete trash or not, you WOULD have to have a pretty good understanding of physical science and quantum theory in order to pronounce upon it, even those who put it forward would if they were to have any chance of justifying it.
                  Einstein believed that physical matter was nothing more than a concentrated field of force. What we see visually as a physical substance is in actuality a combination (or four-dimensional matrix) of frequencies. Different frequencies combine in different ways thus creating different physical masses.
                  These masses seem solid to us because we are also made up of similar wave-forms which vibrate within a defined band-width, and this band-width makes up the limited perspective of our visual, physical world.
                  Still not sure whether he thinks that Einsteins remarks above are from some unemployed idiot?

                  But l agree that the warping bit is a bit far fetched, but l was more into the gravity one. No textbook or scientist, in the mainstream sense of the word, has adequately described what gravity actually is, (and l need to emphasize what it is, not what it's affects are)!

                  String theory says that particles are tearing against higher dimensions, and it creates the illusion of gravity.

                  That answer doesn't sound any more silly then the one on the last post.

                  We all need to have a seriously open mind when dealing with Quantum mechanics.

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                • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                  Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

                  You have finally completely confounded Claude with Metaphysical Mathematics and interdimensional physics.
                  I wasn't confounded at all. The article was nonsense. Believe me, I'm an expert on nonsense.

                  Originally Posted by tagiscom View Post

                  Still not sure whether he thinks that Einsteins remarks above are from some unemployed idiot?
                  None of this was written by Einstein. Albert Einstein died in 1955. He doesn't write blog posts. There isn't even a quote by Einstein.
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                  • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                    String theory says that particles are tearing against higher dimensions, and it creates the illusion of gravity.
                    There's a bit more to it than that. I definitely don't fully understand it but I've known people who research it. It's mathematically attractive as a theory but a generation of research has not been able to prove the theory. I know when they talk details about it - at some point my eyes glaze over (info overload).

                    Still not sure whether he thinks that Einsteins remarks above are from some unemployed idiot?
                    The point I made earlier was about that point. Einstein died in 1955 - which - COINCIDENTALLY - was the same time these people starting using his theories as 'proof'. IN other words - they didn't try to "quote" him until after he was gone and could not refute their comments.
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                    • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
                      Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                      I wasn't confounded at all. The article was nonsense. Believe me, I'm an expert on nonsense.


                      None of this was written by Einstein. Albert Einstein died in 1955. He doesn't write blog posts. There isn't even a quote by Einstein.
                      Originally Posted by Kay King View Post


                      The point I made earlier was about that point. Einstein died in 1955 - which - COINCIDENTALLY - was the same time these people starting using his theories as 'proof'. IN other words - they didn't try to "quote" him until after he was gone and could not refute their comments.
                      Einstein's Gravity - HowStuffWorks

                      Einstein Proved Right on Gravity

                      Ok, fair enough!

                      This individual has built on Einsteins theory that space, time creates gravity, (or a matrix).

                      But unfortunately apart from proving that gravity waves exist, doesn't show what it is?


                      It might be gravitions, (eventhough they have never been observed) or an interaction between the Earths magnetic field with other forces.

                      Until we know, the String Theory one and the magnetic line vortex one are both on the table!

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                    • Profile picture of the author Frank Donovan
                      Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                      The point I made earlier was about that point. Einstein died in 1955 - which - COINCIDENTALLY - was the same time these people starting using his theories as 'proof'. IN other words - they didn't try to "quote" him until after he was gone and could not refute their comments.
                      Poor old Einstein. He'd have had to have lived for centuries if all the quotes and statements employed to "prove" or refute people's theories, beliefs and arguments were actually said by him.

                      9 Albert Einstein Quotes That Are Totally Fake

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                      • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
                        Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                        Einstein died in 1955

                        Yes, and I was born two months later . . . and yet, some people don't believe in reincarnation.

                        Originally Posted by Frank Donovan View Post

                        Aw man, that's disappointing. Two of my favorite "Einstein" quotes are on that list.
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                      • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
                        Originally Posted by Frank Donovan View Post

                        Poor old Einstein. He'd have had to have lived for centuries if all the quotes and statements employed to "prove" or refute people's theories, beliefs and arguments were actually said by him.

                        9 Albert Einstein Quotes That Are Totally Fake

                        .
                        What he didn't say the fish one, now l am depressed, but l already know that l am a genius so who cares!




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                    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                      Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                      There's a bit more to it than that. I definitely don't fully understand it but I've known people who research it. It's mathematically attractive as a theory but a generation of research has not been able to prove the theory. I know when they talk details about it - at some point my eyes glaze over (info overload).

                      The point I made earlier was about that point. Einstein died in 1955 - which - COINCIDENTALLY - was the same time these people starting using his theories as 'proof'. IN other words - they didn't try to "quote" him until after he was gone and could not refute their comments.
                      It reminds me of a story I read about Houdini. He was a debunker of spiritualists. One spiritualist that he exposed was pretty angry, and told him, "Say whatever you want now, but after you die, you'll say whatever we want you to".

                      In 1955 Einstein (and any scientist) had an advantage..... Insane people couldn't get newspaper stories published. And book publishers wouldn't publish complete babble.

                      But blogs? Anyone that can send a signal to their fingers, can write a blog. And if you just use a few "trigger words" like Einstein, quantum physics, string theory, gravitons, dimensions......put these words in sentences, now you have a Manifesto. And you can take any quote from anyone...and make it mean whatever you want it to mean.

                      I'm glad you are here. I was feeling all alone....in my primordial soup.
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                      • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
                        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                        It reminds me of a story I read about Houdini. He was a debunker of spiritualists. One spiritualist that he exposed was pretty angry, and told him, "Say whatever you want now, but after you die, you'll say whatever we want you to".

                        In 1955 Einstein (and any scientist) had an advantage..... Insane people couldn't get newspaper stories published. And book publishers wouldn't publish complete babble.

                        But blogs? Anyone that can send a signal to their fingers, can write a blog. And if you just use a few "trigger words" like Einstein, quantum physics, string theory, gravitons, dimensions......put these words in sentences, now you have a Manifesto. And you can take any quote from anyone...and make it mean whatever you want it to mean.

                        I'm glad you are here. I was feeling all alone....in my primordial soup.
                        I don't think you should feel that way, you have Kurt!

                        But seriously, out of the people here...

                        You are the go to person here for logical, rational thought processes and to some extent, science.
                        Kurt is more the pure science guy, Kay is the sensible balanced view person, I could go on, there are many others with their own strengths and weaknesses. I appreciate you all for what you bring.

                        On the other hand, you are safe, you think inside the box. The box being all that is written in scientific journals, text books and is accepted as being a mainstream understanding of it all, A lot with proof to back it up or at least, sound, plausible theories.I'm not knocking that.

                        But there are some who think that box might end up being a lot bigger than we currently think. Not all these people are ignorant or stupid. If you really look at stuff in depth, there are little holes, sometimes gaping ones. But not everything is looked at in such depth, it's impossible to do so. Also from different perspectives as well. For whatever reasons, some stuff probably IS put aside for the "Good" of the people to maintain order or go behind secure walls to be researched in secret. At least for now.

                        At age 8, I remember seeing very clearly an apparition of my grandmother who died a couple of years before. Being fairly rational about most things I don't veer towards religion but look for some way of incorporating the possibility of extra dimensions and ways of existing into science. That coupled with several other experiences reinforces my view that we have a long way to go before we get the whole picture, however fantasmagorical or mind blowing it may turn out to be. But, till then, I wait and watch.

                        I remember a while back we had a debate about life existing elsewhere in the universe and you pointed out how rare the setup of circumstances we have here is that it was unlikely to be reproduced that many times. I actually got something out of that thread. That was a planet with no magnetic field would probably not support life. Even putting aside the wild claims that magnetism flowing through us keeps us balanced and maintained, the planet itself could not repel the harmful effects of it's star without it. So magnetic fields are probably a very important prerequisite for life to exist.

                        I have also been reminded that the Scorpion can take multiple rads of radiation and not be affected, it would only die if everything else it needs to eat to survive was dead, so yes it would eventually die. That also means that we have a creature on our own planet that is amazingly adaptable to living in harsh conditions.

                        So, keep pushing your stance as it makes us think more about what we are thinking and saying, It is stimulating and challenging for us.
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                        • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
                          Originally Posted by Frank Donovan View Post

                          Poor old Einstein. He'd have had to have lived for centuries if all the quotes and statements employed to "prove" or refute people's theories, beliefs and arguments were actually said by him.

                          9 Albert Einstein Quotes That Are Totally Fake

                          .
                          Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

                          At age 8, I remember seeing very clearly an apparition of my grandmother who died a couple of years before. Being fairly rational about most things I don't veer towards religion but look for some way of incorporating the possibility of extra dimensions and ways of existing into science. That coupled with several other experiences reinforces my view that we have a long way to go before we get the whole picture, however fantasmagorical or mind blowing it may turn out to be. But, till then, I wait and watch.
                          Is that the typical apparition or the rainbow, b/w one?


                          Now Claude is really confused, least l didn't use the Ghostbusters quote!

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                        • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                          Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

                          So, keep pushing your stance as it makes us think more about what we are thinking and saying, It is stimulating and challenging for us.
                          My Friend; I take your post as a sincere compliment. I wish I had seen it sooner.

                          It looks like I have a stance, but I do not. I am a truth seeker, in the purest meaning of the term. I don't care where it leads, or how many closely held beliefs (I have) are shattered.

                          When I look at experiences I have. I think of every possible explanation, (at least all the ones I'm capable of imagining)

                          You saw your Grandmother. I saw my Father. Standing in front of me. Nothing in the world would make me want that to not be real. But I refused to look away, or blink. I stood up, walked toward him, and he turned into a coat rack with coats hanging from it.

                          If I believed ghosts were real, I wouldn't be afraid of losing my wife, I would still talk to my parents. And my vision of my Dad wold have been concrete proof.

                          But for me, I can't afford the joy of believing. You talk about thinking outside the box. I'm really pretty good at thinking outside the box. Nearly all my business expertise is from unrelated industries. But here is what I find; Sometimes I see a real flaw in the logic of a perception or experience. And if the logic is flawed, the entire idea is scrapped. No reality is "Kind of" real.

                          Usually, and this may apply to you......

                          There is another explanation that we simply do not see. Not an explanation that is Amazing...but one so very mundane, we don't consider it.

                          When some belief or philosophy gets in my little brain, I can't let it go. I obsess about it. I look for arguments for and against it. I think of flaws in logic, failures to see all sides, my understanding of the principles involved.

                          Sometimes, when I don't believe something, it isn't because I can prove to myself that it isn't true. But it's because I can prove another argument, that makes the first idea.....impossible. If two ideas are incompatible, at least one is just wrong. And, very likely, both are wrong.

                          I look for brilliant arguments. Where they lead, what they prove...no matter how much I may not like it...is where I'll go.

                          It takes a complete lack of interest in the outcome. You said I was "The rational one". But I think several here are at least as rational. Probably more intelligent. It's my disinterest in the outcome that makes my arguments appear more rational.

                          Does that mean I am right, and you are wrong? No.

                          I'm still convinced that at least 70% of everything I know...is completely wrong. But I'm making the effort. And even the day I die, I'll be working on some idea, polishing it...taking away the waste, the nonsense....

                          It's quite a compulsion with me.

                          Added a minute later; I agree people who have spiritual (or other) beliefs are as smart as I am. Some are smarter. These people aren't stupid. But they generally possess something that I do not, they have a point-of-view, an interest in the outcome. And they have the emotional connection necessary for these ideas to stick.

                          The greatest gift someone can give me, is a well thought out argument, that proves me wrong. I consider that the greatest thing anyone can do for me. Why? Because I don't have to waste any more time and effort, on something that isn't true.

                          Thunderbird did that here once. Maybe Kurt once or twice...Just trash an idea I had. Rip it apart. Prove me wrong. It seems like I always want to be right. But that just mean I want to know. It's far more profitable to learn something, than to be proven right. If you take a stand and just keep defending it, it is impossible to learn.


                          I just looked at this post, and realized it's...well...overwrought. But, this thread has run its course, so this is really just me talking with you.

                          Again, I really appreciate the compliments. And you're right, the others you mentioned are quite good thinkers.

                          I notice you didn't mention Riffle. I wouldn't either.
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                          • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
                            Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                            My Friend; I take your post as a sincere compliment. I wish I had seen it sooner.

                            It looks like I have a stance, but I do not. I am a truth seeker, in the purest meaning of the term. I don't care where it leads, or how many closely held beliefs (I have) are shattered.

                            When I look at experiences I have. I think of every possible explanation, (at least all the ones I'm capable of imagining)

                            You saw your Grandmother. I saw my Father. Standing in front of me. Nothing in the world would make me want that to not be real. But I refused to look away, or blink. I stood up, walked toward him, and he turned into a coat rack with coats hanging from it.

                            If I believed ghosts were real, I wouldn't be afraid of losing my wife, I would still talk to my parents. And my vision of my Dad wold have been concrete proof.

                            But for me, I can't afford the joy of believing. You talk about thinking outside the box. I'm really pretty good at thinking outside the box. Nearly all my business expertise is from unrelated industries. But here is what I find; Either I see a real flaw in the logic of a perception or experience. And if the logic is flawed, the entire idea is scrapped. No reality is "Kind of" real.

                            Usually, and this may apply to you......

                            There is another explanation that we simply do not see. Not an explanation that is Amazing...but one so very mundane, we don't consider it.

                            When some belief or philosophy gets in my little brain, I can't let it go. I obsess about it. I look for arguments for and against it. I think of flaws in logic, failures to see all sides, my understanding of the principles involved.

                            Sometimes, when I don't believe something, it isn't because I can prove to myself that it isn't true. But it's because I can prove another argument, that makes the first idea.....impossible. If two ideas are incompatible, at least one is just wrong. And, very likely, both are wrong.

                            I look for brilliant arguments. Where they lead, what they prove...no matter how much I may not like it...is where I'll go.

                            It takes a complete lack of interest in the outcome. You said I was "The rational one". But I think several here are at least as rational. Probably more intelligent. It's my disinterest in the outcome that makes my arguments appear more rational.

                            Does that mean I am right, and you are wrong? No.

                            I'm still convinced that at least 70% of everything I know...is completely wrong. But I'm making the effort. And even the day I die, I'll be working on some idea, polishing it...taking away the waste, the nonsense....

                            It's quite a compulsion with me.

                            Added a minute later; I agree people who have spiritual (or other) beliefs are as smart as I am. Some are smarter. These people aren't stupid. But they generally possess something that I do not, they have a point-of-view, an interest in the outcome. And they have the emotional connection necessary for these ideas to stick.

                            The greatest gift someone can give me, is a well thought out argument, that proves me wrong. I consider that the greatest thing anyone can do for me. Why? Because I don't have to waste any more time and effort, on something that isn't true.

                            Thunderbird did that here once. Maybe Kurt once or twice...Just trash an idea I had. Rip it apart. Prove me wrong. It seems like I always want to be right. But that just mean I want to know. It's far more profitable to learn something, than to be proven right.


                            I just looked at this post, and realized it's...well...overwrought. But, this thread has run its course, so this is really just me talking with you.

                            Again, I really appreciate the compliments. And you're right, the others you mentioned are quite good thinkers.

                            I notice you didn't mention Riffle. I wouldn't either.
                            I'm glad you read my post. Many times I expect we write replies, quips, observations etc, late at night, only to see them disappear down the rankings and never to be seen or read by the intended recipient.

                            I'm too modest to PM people or hassle them and say, hey, I wrote this, you should read it. As with this post, nothing really new that has not been said before and sometimes they are just personal exercises in getting your thoughts out there anyway. Thanks for your admirable reply.

                            Perhaps one day I or someone else will find an angle on this subject matter that will make you really sit up and question all you currently accept to be so. But as you know, it is a an elusive and intangible subject.

                            Perhaps it will be Quantum Mechanics, taken to the N'th degree that does it and a new working theory will come out saying, yes, all this is perfectly possible and it will explain a lot of why the human race, leaving out the crazies and the mistaken interpretations, still, is by consensus, plagued by this phenomena. Even with a working theory in tow , the really difficult bit will be to validate it.

                            Riffle is not up to date with his subscription but deserves more than an honourable mention.
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                          • Profile picture of the author Cali16
                            Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                            It's my disinterest in the outcome that makes my arguments appear more rational.
                            Claude, first of all, excellent post. If only more people were genuinely interested in the truth (as opposed to supporting their preconceived notions or agenda, whatever those may be, at any cost), what a different world this would be.

                            As for your statement above; allowing yourself to be detached from the outcome also allows you to be more rational (not just appear to be). It's our emotional attachment to our beliefs - to the outcome we desire or are fiercely determined to find - that interferes with our ability to be fully objective and fully rational - whether we want to admit it or not.

                            I really appreciate your posts like the one above because you exhibit a level of open-mindedness and genuine desire for the truth that is unusual - if not downright rare - in people in general. I find that very refreshing!
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                          • Profile picture of the author Kurt
                            Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post


                            I'm still convinced that at least 70% of everything I know...is completely wrong.
                            In other words, there's a 70% chance you're wrong about being 70% wrong?
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                            • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                              Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

                              In other words, there's a 70% chance you're wrong about being 70% wrong?
                              HA! I actually worked it out a decade or so ago. I forget the formula, exactly...But, when you get down to it...it's a guess...I guess.



                              Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

                              Riffle is not up to date with his subscription but deserves more than an honourable mention.
                              Riffle's a damn smart cookie, or he wouldn't be so much fun.
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            • Profile picture of the author HeySal
              Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

              Jesus Shane.....this stuff you quoted here is fevered nonsense you found on a blog in one of your "I am insane, but still know how to type" blogs.

              Please, before you die from old age..read a science book..just one...written by a real scientist... and stop reading these insane ridiculous blogs, written by sweaty unemployed middle aged men, still living with their mother.
              Sorry - but your knowledge of physics isn't strong enough to call anyone else insane or nonsensical. Caie had a pretty good handle on math. Some of his formulas are extremely credible - a few were perfected by others, who took his work seriously, but found it flawed. We do have an EM grid. That's just known now. Subtle earth energies are also accepted in science now. That the guy believed in flying saucers, etc. doesn't make him stupid.

              A lot of extremely brilliant people believed in what you think of as whacked crap. I'm not sure what site you are referring to, but this guy was not someone that we can raspberry for his work in frequencies and electromagnetism. His work was a little rough, but it was at least good. The fact that he believed in flying saucers doesn't make him an idiot. If that is how we judge intelligence, you just insulted one hell of a lot of very successful and astute leaders in science, military, etc.

              It's not Cathie's fault that the guy that wrote the website included him in the mix.
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              • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

                Sorry - but your knowledge of physics isn't strong enough to call anyone else insane or nonsensical.
                In that case...my lack of knowledge of the laws of physics...prevents me from commenting.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kurt
    In poker and in war, we must always consider the possibility of a bluff. Deception and misinformation are essential in each. It's entirely possible that this wasn't a cover up, but rather a "leak" to make enemies think we had this tech and we should all keep an "open mind" to this possibility.
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    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

      In poker and in war, we must always consider the possibility of a bluff. Deception and misinformation are essential in each. It's entirely possible that this wasn't a cover up, but rather a "leak" to make enemies think we had this tech and we should all keep an "open mind" to this possibility.
      I never thought of that. The only reason I doubt it, is that it takes more cleverness than most people have. But it's clearly possible.
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      • Profile picture of the author Kurt
        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

        I never thought of that. The only reason I doubt it, is that it takes more cleverness than most people have. But it's clearly possible.
        I doubt it too...But because I doubt it happened. However, there's all sorts of examples of deception in war...

        How about the Trojan Horse? Or how Patton was sent North as a bluff for D Day? The USA and Brits hired Hollywood set/prop creators and made "balloon" tanks and jeeps, etc., to make it appear to the Nazis that we had far more weapons than we really had.

        Hannibal had his troops each light multiple fires at night so it looked like they had far more soldiers than they really had to deceive the Romans.

        But my main motivation was to make sure Shane kept an open mind to all possibilities. And it's possible the whole thing was just a bluff and that even the military that was there wasn't told about the bluff. .
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        • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
          Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

          But my main motivation was to make sure Shane kept an open mind to all possibilities. And it's possible the whole thing was just a bluff and that even the military that was there wasn't told about the bluff. .
          Yes, we must make sure Shane keeps an open mind. His skepticism and arrogance must be kept in check.

          Yours truly,
          The Sheeple.
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          • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
            Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

            I never thought of that. The only reason I doubt it, is that it takes more cleverness than most people have. But it's clearly possible.
            Don't be so harsh on yourself!


            Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

            Yes, we must make sure Shane keeps an open mind. His skepticism and arrogance must be kept in check.

            Yours truly,
            The Sheeple.
            Hmmmm, l will let Dan give a witty and vengeful rebuttel!


            In the meantime, the plot thickens!

            The Philadelphia Experiment

            This is a big article, and l only scanned part of it, but it does raise some interesting questions.

            Although the crew having a fight and disappearing, hmmm, probably just a refection off the water caused by space time echoes, from the water at right angles to space time dist.....groan, beats me!

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            • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
              Originally Posted by tagiscom View Post

              Although the crew having a fight and disappearing, hmmm, probably just a refection off the water caused by space time echoes, from the water at right angles to space time dist.....groan, beats me!

              or...no explanation is necessary, because it didn't really happen.
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    To me, the most likely thing is that there was an experiment that was a little different but fairly benign and the more people talked about it, the more incredible it became. If anyone actually died in the experiment and word got out, there would have been a lot of National Enquirer type speculation on it. Then you've got Hollywood to further sensationalize it. Serious - how many of you would have ever even heard of the Philadelphia Experiment if there hadn't have been a movie by that name?
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    • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      To me, the most likely thing is that there was an experiment that was a little different but fairly benign and the more people talked about it, the more incredible it became. If anyone actually died in the experiment and word got out, there would have been a lot of National Enquirer type speculation on it. Then you've got Hollywood to further sensationalize it. Serious - how many of you would have ever even heard of the Philadelphia Experiment if there hadn't have been a movie by that name?
      Movie? Oh you mean the dramatized documentary.
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      • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
        Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

        Movie? Oh you mean the dramatized documentary.
        I have a friend that used to be convinced that dramatized re-enactments were films of the actual occurrence. And that, if it said in the beginning of the movie, "Based on actual events", that everything in the movie happened...exactly like in the movie.

        It was very difficult to convince him otherwise. And he was a smart person. We all have blind spots.
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        • Profile picture of the author kenmichaels
          Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

          I have a friend that used to be convinced that dramatized re-enactments were films of the actual occurrence. And that, if it said in the beginning of the movie, "Based on actual events", that everything in the movie happened...exactly like in the movie.

          It was very difficult to convince him otherwise. And he was a smart person. We all have blind spots.
          Sounds like the same conversation I had with one of my brothers ...
          To this day ... an otherwise smart person thinks WWF and everything like it
          is real wrestling.
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          • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
            Originally Posted by kenmichaels View Post

            Sounds like the same conversation I had with one of my brothers ...
            To this day ... an otherwise smart person thinks WWF and everything like it
            is real wrestling.
            Yes. I was absolutely amazed to find out that...in 2015, there are still people...functional humans...that still think wrestling is real. But they exist...and not just in trailer parks.
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Well, Shane - I've spent a few days doing some very interesting research.

    First off - yes, it's true that Einstein and Tesla joined up in time experiments at Princeton University. It's also true that they were seeing success and shut the experiments down because the military got their nose open and the two decided results would be used against, instead of for, humanity.

    It is also true that the military continued experiments where the two scientists left off.

    It is also true that if the Philadelphia experiment did happen, which is not such an unlikely idea, the nature of the experiment and the events surrounding the experiment will very likely never be brought to light. Authorities are experts at burying and sealing info.

    I did find some very interesting facts about Tesla - some just trivia, but it seems he was smart enough to be a tad crazy. No surprise there. I know a lot of bizarrely intelligent scientists, not one of who I would consider to be playing with a full deck. Extreme intellect causes quirks, what d'ya do?, LOL.

    I also found out that the Supreme Court had accepted a lawsuit by Tesla against Marconi for stealing his work on wave transference for shortwave (I believe shortwave?).

    And this one I believe was the most fascinating thing that I saw:
    Tesla also attempted an experiment to use the core of the Earth like a “tuning fork” to conduct “free” electricity. In the process, he melted the town generator of Colorado Springs. At exactly the same time, an unexplained explosion in Siberia of about 15 megatons leveled hundreds of square miles of pine forests. This explosion is often dismissed as a comet or meteor impact.
    Conversely - I'm not sure of the accuracy of the source, but I did live shortly in Colorado Springs and know that the generator there did, indeed melt down about that time. So............. grain of salt on that one.

    Anyway - it's a fact that Einstein and Tesla were dickering with time travel. It's a fact that they made enough progress to shut down because they didn't want military to have the info. Beyond that - it's not clear what went on or didn't. It's also true that our gov has "sacrificed" humans more than once in some very inhumane ways conducting experiments. So this one wouldn't be the first - it wouldn't be the last.

    The experiment would not have been for the purpose of testing "invisibility" - I can state that with a fair amount of certainty now. This would have been a transport experiment (i.e. - folding space time). I also think that, in light of the pair's views and theories on space/time that they would proceed to move things in space before attempting to move them into the past or future. And, yes, I realize what I'm saying and that it's impossible to move into/from one and not the other as well, but I think you get the drift of what I"m saying.

    I've exhausted my online research and time capabilities on this one at this point. If you want to pursue the issue in any seriousness, here's my suggestions.

    1. Research the Princeton library - that's where Tesla and Einstein were working on time.

    2. Write to the gov and ask for info on the experiment via the Freedom of Info act. You will have to also research where to send the request. I don't remember. It's online somewhere, though, so shouldn't be hard to find. Expect a fee attached.

    3. Find out what small town newspapers were running in the area at the time. Don't bother with the main larger papers in the areas where the ship supposedly disappeared or was seen to appear at - those will have been scrubbed. Sometimes, though, a report in small town papers get missed. A lot of "buried" crap is turned up in this manner. I can't remember where everything I read said the ship turned up, but any small town in that area is likely to have a report about a "strange event" on that day. When journalists used to investigate stories instead of being handed what they are to read, that was one of the most reliable method of turning up otherwise "hidden" info. Someone usually drops the ball on this type of cover up somewhere. Again - expect to pay for the paper's time and effort. If the paper is no longer running (which most won't be), call the local library and ask where the paper's archives are held and proceed from there.
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  • Profile picture of the author whateverpedia
    Sal,

    Tesla also attempted an experiment to use the core of the Earth like a “tuning fork” to conduct “free” electricity. In the process, he melted the town generator of Colorado Springs. At exactly the same time, an unexplained explosion in Siberia of about 15 megatons leveled hundreds of square miles of pine forests. This explosion is often dismissed as a comet or meteor impact.
    That is truly fascinating.

    It is also complete bullshit..

    Tesla left his lab in Colorado Springs in 1900, and it was torn down and its bits and pieces sold off in 1904 to pay off debts.

    The Tunguska (not Siberia) Event took place in 1908.

    You spent a few days to come up with that, and I spent a few minutes with Professor Google to debunk it.

    Disappointing Sal, very disappointing.
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    • Profile picture of the author HeySal
      Originally Posted by whateverpedia View Post

      Sal,

      That is truly fascinating.

      It is also complete bullshit..

      Tesla left his lab in Colorado Springs in 1900, and it was torn down and its bits and pieces sold off in 1904 to pay off debts.

      The Tunguska (not Siberia) Event took place in 1908.

      You spent a few days to come up with that, and I spent a few minutes with Professor Google to debunk it.

      Disappointing Sal, very disappointing.
      I didn't try to debunk it - did you read my comment?
      Conversely - I'm not sure of the accuracy of the source, but I did live shortly in Colorado Springs and know that the generator there did, indeed melt down about that time. So............. grain of salt on that one.
      This was just something I strolled across while looking for something else. When you're searching for one thing, you don't start looking up side claims and events or you never get what you were doing done. As I said, I know that CO Springs had a generator melt down once so just took it with a grain of salt. Had I wondered about it later on, I would have researched that particular claim.

      Thanks, though - you saved me the time I might have spent if I'd started to wonder more about it.
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  • Profile picture of the author whateverpedia
    Fair enough, I did miss that part of your post.

    I stand suitably chastened.
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    • Profile picture of the author HeySal
      Originally Posted by whateverpedia View Post

      Fair enough, I did miss that part of your post.

      I stand suitably chastened.
      LOL - not a problem. I'm serious - you saved me time. Because I had lived in the Springs before, eventually I would have gone back and looked that up wanting to know more. Frankly, I wasn't even sure he was ever really there at all. I never saw anything there advertising "home of Tesla" like they have for other famous people.
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      • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
        More interesting info,.

        There are also scientists that speculate that the navy was working on a way to make the ship invisible to vision, but in a less complex way... than warping space and time around it.
        This theory suggest that the ship was equipped with high frequency generator that would heat up the surrounding air to cause a mirage, making the vessel invisible.


        This phenomenon is a naturally occurring one...in fact their have been cases where entire islands have disappeared from view, when the conditions were right. The high frequency generator would heat up the surrounding air (and the water, crating the greenish fog that was said to of engulfed the ship), and caused a mirage to form, concealing the ship from view.

        This generator would also account for the sickness (physical and mental) of the crew after the experiment.

        A high frequency generator can really screw with a persons well being, especially at close range. This is certainly more plausible than the degaussing theory, and explains the sailors' sickness.


        This is one of the explanations for the experiment, and the other one is here....

        Rips in Time - Philadelphia Experiment

        Unlikely Tessla was involved, since he died before it took place, but Einstein?


        Also interesting to note that the Earth might create space, time distortions in its atmosphere, probably explains the Bermuda triangle enigma?

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