Head Transplant - Who's body do you want?

by butters

Posted: 9 years ago 33 replies

OFF TOPIC

Shockingly I don't think I'd put myself forward to trial this surgery but some Russian did!

First human head transplant could happen in two years - health - 25 February 2015 - New Scientist

So, who's body is your head going on it the future!!?

Kay King

9 years ago

http://www.sciencealert.com/world-s-...rse-than-death

I can't imagine that being successful but maybe in time it will be one answer to wasting diseases or deformities. The article above is a bit chilling, though.

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seasoned

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

World

I can't imagine that being successful but maybe in time it will be one answer to wasting diseases or deformities. The article above is a bit chilling, though.

Yeah, there would be SOOOOOOO many problems! All that blood, nerves, bone, and tissue rejections? GOOD LUCK! NOBODY has managed to deal with such nerves, or even determine how they are mapped. IMAGINE! ON STAR TREK, they once did this, and the earthlings and aliens MARVELED at how such a childlike race could accomplish such a MASSIVE FEAT! They RISKED THEIR LIVES to get the temporary ability to try to save spock!

So IMAGINE! They are trying to do something SO complicated that all involved with startrek thought would be so complicated even 3 or 4 hundred years in the future!

Still, if they succeeded, it would have MASSIVE implications! MANY people die simply because the brain gets damaged too badly, or is without oxygen for too long. The brain is often the first thing to die.

Steve

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butters

9 years ago

Originally Posted by seasoned

Still, if they succeeded, it would have MASSIVE implications! MANY people die simply because the brain gets damaged too badly, or is without oxygen for too long. The brain is often the first thing to die.

Steve

Since they are moving the head to a difference body it won't really solve that problem but maybe the science behind it may open up unknown doors. I was thinking more for people who are paralysed from the neck down and things like that. Theoretically we all die from heart failure, thats the one guarantee in life, if this works, life expectancy could be going up

. Then again, there are more full proof ways of extending life which are on the brink of being developed right now.

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Claude Whitacre

9 years ago

I don't think it's possible to connect the spinal chords, so that they will function properly.

In the lab, mice have had their backs broken, and then using stem cells (I think) the spinal chord fused back together, and the mice walked again.

But fusing two spinal chords, from two different individuals? This isn't one spinal chord. It's millions of individual nerves. They have to be connected to the right nerve in the other chord. If not, you have a body that is not doing what you want it to. Maybe eventually, they can connect the chords, so that the heart and lungs will work on their own.

You can't just glue two spinal chords together, and expect them to work. The nerves are far more complex than that.

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seasoned

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

EXACTLY! The heart DOES "work on its own", but the lungs really never would be able to fully do so. And that is ANOTHER thing! As I implied earlier, there is NOT one nerve bundle! A lot of people are misled by the idea of the MAIN nerve bundle, called the spinal cord. There is also ANOTHER major nerve bundle called the vagus nerve. It sounds like it is one, but it is SEVERAL! And then there are nerves going through the head that may continue down part of the body.

But HEY, can YOU imagine working with a huge cable and making sure you don't even NICK a wire? I have NEVER even seen an electrician take such care. OK, imagine that that cable contains many THOUSANDS, perhaps MILLIONS, of tiny wires that you can't discern, can't trace, and they aren't labeled, and reconnecting them all as appropriate. I have seen cases of people working with similar problems, on fewer and bigger wires, and taking a LONG time to do it. Who knows how long doctors will have though. ANOTHER thing! LIKE THE WIRES, what about insulation? What will happen if it isn't done right? Well, this happens in nature ALSO, so we don't REALLY have to guess! HERE is a disease that simply tears the insulation off of nerves! Multiple sclerosis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Steve

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kenmichaels 9 years ago

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

You can't just glue two spinal chords together, and expect them to work. The nerves are far more complex than that.

Obviously you have never used superglue or duct-tape.
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- bizgrower 9 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by kenmichaels
  
  Obviously you have never used superglue or duct-tape.
  
  Duck brand or Gorilla duct-tape is best.
  
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seasoned

9 years ago

Originally Posted by butters

. Then again, there are more full proof ways of extending life which are on the brink of being developed right now.

MAN, you must have really misunderstood me! I understand FULLY what it is about! ALL I meant is that there are bodies that are perfectly fine, or can easily be salvaged, for the heads that, presumably, have NO such bodies, as the title of this thread implies.

On my statement about spock, it WAS a brain, rather than a head, but the brain IS the hardest part and one could argue that the BRAIN is an easier operation since a lot of the blood vessels and the bones, are connected. The story is that the child race has a world controlled by a biological brain. The brain they had was near death, and they saw the enterprise. They went on the enterprise, and stole spocks brain to run their world. The people on the enterprise had to go down, find the brain, learn how to replace it, and then replace the brain. View that ANY way you want. The aliens DID transplant spocks brain into a "foreign body"!

Steve

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AprilCT

9 years ago

Ridiculous. It won't work, and I think this is just about getting some notoriety.

If it were possible, it should likely also be just as possible to fully repair failing body parts, obviating the head transfer to another body.

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butters

9 years ago

Originally Posted by AprilCT

Rejuvenating something is equally as hard, there is lots of research right now in an attempt to rejuvenate dying cells. Is this transplant possible, sure, are we capable right now to do it, probably not. That being said, there is 2 years till they attempt it and it is scientifically possible. If anything, this probably won't happen but the research may help in some way.

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lanfear63

9 years ago

Originally Posted by butters

Good observation, I'm going to make you Head Attach'e on this project.

Claude's having a bit of a problem sourcing a strong enough body to support his head. Who would have thought Dark Matter would turn out to be so heavy

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Claude Whitacre

9 years ago

Originally Posted by lanfear63

"Head Attach'e".

Wow.

I once heard this kind of "head transplant" story on the news. The woman commentator said, "I don't want someone else's head on my body!". She didn't get that the head was who you were, not the body.

"Head Attach'e"........Man, that was good.

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Cali16 9 years ago

This certainly gives the phrase "donate your body to science" a whole new meaning...
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seasoned

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

ACTUALLY, you are who you are. If the body is a different size, you may be off in several respects. There may be some chemical produced that your brain can't tolerate, etc... Since we have NO idea of specifics, there are BOUND to be problems. Take blood type, for example! People once thought blood was the same, THEN, they thought there were were 3 types. THEN, they thought there were 6 types. MANY systems today assume there are only 6 types, but there more than perhaps 10 types. SURE, the 6 represents supposedly over 100% in most of the world, but some parts may even find THOSE types as rare! ANYWAY, let's stick with the 6 types. I am referring, of course, to A,B,O, and all three can be + or -. Anyway, they found that there are still MORE types, and they are often not looked at until you deal with transplants. And after all that, they STILL have problems, so they have drugs, and after that they may still have OTHER things! So YEAH, I may have things that I am not hppy about, but I feel the same way. I would rather stay as I am.

Steve

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positivenegative 9 years ago

Originally Posted by seasoned

I would rather stay as I am.

Damn. We were hoping for 6 months or so of peace, whilst your head (aka the Encyclopedia of Everything) is transplanted elsewhere.
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seasoned

9 years ago

Originally Posted by butters

Computers were "scientifically possible" LONG ago! HECK, they have made movies about such things that STILL aren't done.

ANOTHER thing! Using technology we have now, such a task becomes progressively more complicated as the number of connections, etc... grows, and as the obstructions increase. There are few cases where such situations are worse, than the spinal column. BTW I DOUBT they could do this in 2 years. It will probably take them longer than that to map the nerves. It will probably take them longer than that to trace the nerves.

HEY! Let's try a good example! If they could externally trace the spinal column, they could, in theory, trace the optic nerve. To do that, they would have to intercept impulses. *******YAY****** They could hook that up to a person, show them *****ONE***** picture and BANG! INSTANT and PERFECT prescription! WHY haven't they applied it here? I guess they don't have access!

Or HOW about a HIGH DEF FMRI type mapping? It would help SO many things, but it hasn't been done.

ANYWAY, until they can do this, FORGET BRAIN(OR HEAD) TRANSPLANTS! On STAR TREK, they connected spock's voice/ears first so he could give feedback. HERE, with some brain operations, they keep the person awake to do much the same thing. Of course THAT is only for a FEW things, and while all is in place! It will NOT work for the standard transplant.

Steve

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butters

9 years ago

Originally Posted by seasoned

ANOTHER thing! Using technology we have now, such a task becomes progressively more complicated as the number of connections, etc... grows, and as the obstructions increase. There are few cases where such situations are worse, than the spinal column. BTW I DOUBT they could do this in 2 years. It will probably take them longer than that to map the nerves. It will probably take them longer than that to trace the nerves.

Here I was thinking we broke out the chain saw, glue and tape... We all understand the complications of this surgery, some of the stuff you have mentioned has probably already been researched. There are many issues with this surgery which many neuroscientists state but, it is theoretically possible, suppose you have to start some where. Lets just hope its a pioneering surgery and that the wealth of research which will go into it after would open up some great discoveries.

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Claude Whitacre

9 years ago

Originally Posted by butters

Here I was thinking we broke out the chain saw, glue and tape... We all understand the complications of this surgery, some of the stuff you have mentioned has probably already been researched. There are many issues with this surgery which many neuroscientists state but, it is theoretically possible, suppose you have to start some where. Lets just hope its a pioneering surgery and that the wealth of research which will go into it after would open up some great discoveries.

I think that may be the real benefit of this course of research. Maybe eventually, a transplant will be possible (with connected nerves, and the ability to move). But the discoveries that this research could spin off, would probably make the research worthwhile, even if there is no real success.

I wonder if just cloning a new body would be easier? No idea.

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seasoned

9 years ago

Originally Posted by butters

I state some obvious concerns because they are so often IGNORED! And they weren't talking about starting. As for research? That is BULL! Did they research blood types? NO! Did they AGAIN? NO! Did they assume they might miss something? NO! Did they research tissue typing? NO! Did they research blood destruction, and clotting triggers? NO! So HOW do they now know 80% of the stuff I just said they didn't research? PEOPLE DIED or GOT SICK, etc.... And THEN they went back and found out why! They STILL talk about the ABO system like that is all there is.

So YEAH, they haven't researched it because they need a test subject they can properly test under such circumstances. And what I am referring to is only ONE aspect. There are many others.

Steve

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butters

9 years ago

Originally Posted by seasoned

What are you going on about??? Did who research blood types? What???

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Claude Whitacre

9 years ago

Originally Posted by AprilCT

Neil deGrasse Tyson was asked about terraforming Mars. He said something like, "if we had the technological know how to terraform Mars, we could easily terraform the Earth, and at far less cost".

So you're probably right. If we can attach heads, and connect all the nerves...we would probably already be able to simply make the original body healthy. At least, that's a good train of thought.

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HeySal

9 years ago

Originally Posted by butters

. Then again, there are more full proof ways of extending life which are on the brink of being developed right now.

That's what hit me, too. If they can do this, why can't they just open up the back/back of the neck and fix it? It's Russia - maybe they can and they just aren't bothering to tell anyone else. Russia has some just bizarre and bizarrely intelligent scientists. If they can reconnect bodies and heads, they can fix any nerve damage in the body. Why isn't that knowledge being used? Stinks of medical corporate.

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Daaria 9 years ago

This sounds like the title of a upcoming horror film.
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Dan Riffle 9 years ago

Whose body would I want? Kate Upton's.

And I'd never leave the house.
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- lanfear63 9 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Dan Riffle
  
  Whose body would I want? Kate Upton's.
  
  And I'd never leave the house.
  
  Not wise if you want to keep Claude's visits down to a manageable 2 per year.
  
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- Claude Whitacre 9 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Dan Riffle
  
  Whose body would I want? Kate Upton's.
  
  And I'd never leave the house.
  
  Nice try. But I'm never going to fall for, "But Claude, I have Kate Upton's body" again!
  
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  whateverpedia 9 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre
  
  Nice try. But I'm never going to fall for, "But Claude, I have Kate Upton's body" again!
  
  The fact that it was covered with hair and only two feet in height should've set off alarm bells for you.
  
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  Claude Whitacre 9 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by whateverpedia
  
  The fact that it was covered with hair and only two feet in height should've set off alarm bells for you.
  
  In other words, It was just Riffle.
  
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- Claude Whitacre 9 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Dan Riffle
  
  Whose body would I want? Kate Upton's.
  
  And I'd never leave the house.
  
  Whose body would you need, so you would never post online?
  
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Joe Mobley

9 years ago

Head Transplant 425 - YouTube

In 1970, after a long series of preliminary experiments, White performed a transplant of one monkey head onto the body of another monkey. Because the surgery included severing the spine at the neck, the subjects were paralyzed from the neck down. After the surgery, because the cranial nerves within the brain were still intact and nourished by the circulatory system from the new body, the monkey could still hear, smell, taste, eat and follow objects with its eyes.

Ultimately, immunorejection caused the monkey to die after nine days. Dr. Jerry Silver, an expert in regrowing severed nerves, called White's experiments on monkeys, "fairly barbaric."

Robert J. White - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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Claude Whitacre

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Joe Mobley

.......Ultimately, immunorejection caused the monkey to die after nine days. Dr. Jerry Silver, an expert in regrowing severed nerves, called White's experiments on monkeys, "fairly barbaric."

Joe Mobley

More than Fairly, I think.

To be honest, I don't think I would want my head transplanted on another body, to keep me alive. Even if it were possible.

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Dan Riffle 9 years ago

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

To be honest, I don't think I would want my head transplanted on another body, to keep me alive. Even if it were possible.

I think you should reconsider.
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- discrat 9 years ago
  
  They started doing this head stuff way back in 1980
  
  Motel Hell (4/10) Movie CLIP - Feeding the Heads...
  
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Head Transplant - Who's body do you want?

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