The Surprising Downsides Of Being Clever

9 years ago

I've known a lot of people with very high IQ that mostly lacked a common sense, down to earth, approach to life. Just the fact someone has an unusually high degree of intelligence never guarantees a functional life.

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msdobe

9 years ago

Originally Posted by AprilCT

I've known a lot of people with very high IQ that mostly lacked a common sense, down to earth, approach to life. Just the fact someone has an unusually high degree of intelligence never guarantees a functional life.

Totally agree!
Jenny

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Claude Whitacre

9 years ago

Originally Posted by lanfear63

Studies of people with high IQ's and how they fare in life..

BBC - Future - The surprising downsides of being clever

The article rings true. But most people reading it are seeing a different picture. High IQ has always been thought of as a negative by normals. It's derided and poked fun at. Just like great wealth. In movies, the genius is usually the villain, and the guy with the "good heart" is the hero.

"Geniuses aren't as happy as we are" is the normal reaction..."They have no common sense"...."Money doesn't buy happiness."

Is happiness the goal? It never was for me.

I've always been interested in the correlation between intelligence and wisdom. I know brilliant people who are not wise. And I know people of average intelligence that are wise. But they do tend to go together. (in my experience)

Of course, a genius that is also wise.....most of us wouldn't know what they were talking about, I would think.

Just observations.

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Dan Riffle

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

I've always been interested in the correlation between intelligence and wisdom. I know brilliant people who are not wise. And I know people of average intelligence that are wise. But they do tend to go together. (in my experience)

What you're looking for is a measure of application. The willingness to apply what we know creates wisdom. Thus, the issue can only be measures so much based on intelligence. Application takes effort. A person's willingness to provide that effort - to do the work, so to speak - drives wisdom. We'll call this Drive. For example, you can have four people: Average Intellect/Average Drive, Average Intellect/High Drive, High Intellect/Average Drive, and High Intellect/High Drive. The AI/HD may appear more wise than the HI/AD, not to mention a fifth possible person, the HI/Low Drive.

Just giving you an angle to kick around.

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Claude Whitacre

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Dan Riffle

What you're looking for is a measure of application. The willingness to apply what we know creates wisdom. Thus, the issue can only be measures so much based on intelligence. Application takes effort. A person's willingness to provide that effort - to do the work, so to speak - drives wisdom. We'll call this Drive. For example, you can have four people: Average Intellect/Average Drive, Average Intellect/High Drive, High Intellect/Average Drive, and High Intellect/High Drive. The AI/HD may appear more wise than the HI/AD, not to mention a fifth possible person, the HI/Low Drive.

Just giving you an angle to kick around.

I always thought of wisdom as the ability to apply the principles of what you know, to varied situations. For example, in another thread, Kurt brings up the example of the Trojan Horse.

When I was in high school, I thought about this story...and how it could be applied to other areas in life. Maybe wisdom is connecting everything you know, creating new uses for that information...and applying it to your life.

The problem is, I'm not a genius....so I don't know how much of wisdom depends on intelligence, and how much is from connecting the dots of what you know, and how they work together.....

Anyway, interesting stuff. And unfortunately...we seem to see this the same way.

For my next project, I'm going to trick you into agreeing that the Batman V Superman movie preview looks amazing.

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Dan Riffle

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

I always thought of wisdom as the ability to apply the principles of what you know, to varied situations. For example, in another thread, Kurt brings up the example of the Trojan Horse.

When I was in high school, I thought about this story...and how it could be applied to other areas in life. Maybe wisdom is connecting everything you know, creating new uses for that information...and applying it to your life.

The problem is, I'm not a genius....so I don't know how much of wisdom depends on intelligence, and how much is from connecting the dots of what you know, and how they work together.....

Anyway, interesting stuff.

I think the ability to apply is relatable to intelligence. However, being able to apply and actually applying require different engines. One might have the ability to apply their intelligence with 100% efficiency, but may be encumbered by intellectual laziness that drives their efficiency rating to 50%. They just don't put in the mental work. Conversely, another person may have the intellectual capacity to only apply 50% of their intelligence. This person may also be an intellectual "Johnny on the Spot," when it comes to drive, but they'll never be able to apply intellect at a greater level due to their initial intellectual limitations.

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Claude Whitacre

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Dan Riffle

I think the ability to apply is relatable to intelligence. However, being able to apply and actually applying require different engines. One might have the ability to apply their intelligence with 100% efficiency, but may be encumbered by intellectual laziness that drives their efficiency rating to 50%. They just don't put in the mental work. Conversely, another person may have the intellectual capacity to only apply 50% of their intelligence. This person may also be an intellectual "Johnny on the Spot," when it comes to drive, but they'll never be able to apply intellect at a greater level due to their initial intellectual limitations.

I'll be honest with you. I was reading this, thinking that you were giving this serious thought...and I was truly struck with your understanding of what "wisdom" is. And then you said "Johnny on the spot"....a real deal killer.

I'm sorry, but I can no longer be seen talking to you.

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Dan Riffle 9 years ago

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

I'm sorry, but I can no longer be seen talking to you.

My work here is done.
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- Claude Whitacre 9 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Dan Riffle
  
  My work here is done.
  
  I have a confession to make...
  
  I'm always going to think that's funny.
  
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Dan Riffle 9 years ago

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

For my next project, I'm going to trick you into agreeing that the Batman V Superman movie preview looks amazing.

It looks like dung in a plastic bag submerged in a bucket of water for three months. Oddly specific? Yes. Oddly accurate? Most definitely.
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Mike Anthony

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

Of course, a genius that is also wise.....most of us wouldn't know what they were talking about, I would think.

So you are saying Seasoned is both then.

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Joe Mobley

9 years ago

"Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan Press On! has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race."

― Calvin Coolidge

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Dennis Gaskill

9 years ago

They needed a study for that? Most of the conclusions seem like common sense to me.

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HeySal 9 years ago

Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill

They needed a study for that? Most of the conclusions seem like common sense to me.

It's really slanted. America blows more geniuses out the doors of the school systems than any other industrialized country. Geniuses are pretty autonomous creatures, whether creative or intellectual genius. Our schools are structured badly and at best, often suppress genius. A lot of our teachers don't even recognize genius unless it's in prodigy form.

I'm thinking that the researchers in this study don't really have much of a clue of what genius actually is or where off the charts to look for it.
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WalkingCarpet

Banned 9 years ago

Yep- take me for example. My IQ is in low Earth orbit- so much that I feel above all and feel everyone else as pathetic little ants that need to be squashed and put out of their misery.

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lanfear63

9 years ago

Originally Posted by WalkingCarpet

Yep- take me for example. My IQ is in low Earth orbit- so much that I feel above all and feel everyone else as pathetic little ants that need to be squashed and put out of their misery.

Agreed, you have the brains of a Giant Ant Eater.

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Claude Whitacre

9 years ago

Originally Posted by WalkingCarpet

Yep- take me for example. My IQ is in low Earth orbit- so much that I feel above all and feel everyone else as pathetic little ants that need to be squashed and put out of their misery.

A tip...Your IQ is in low Earth orbit, the same way mosquitos are in low Earth orbit.

To be fair, I have no idea how smart you are, really....But "Low Earth orbit"...isn't it.

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bizgrower

9 years ago

I always liked the saying:

“Wisdom is the daughter of experience”

― Leonardo da Vinci

Intelligence or smart at what? I have a repeat customer who is a top notch lawyer. Yet, he can't
figure out that if you just jiggle the toilet handle to move it up to the off position, the toilet will stop
running. He also can't figure out the remote control for the Air Conditioning unit. It was very easy
for me to figure out, but not intuitive for him.

7 (Seven) Kinds of Smart: Identifying and...

7 Intelligences: What Does it Mean to be Smart? - Jim Cathcart, CSP, CPAE - Cathcart Institute

Intelligent/skilled kids - probably more than others - need guidance and support, people skills, ethics... so they can become well functioning adults and maybe fully apply that intelligence. (Or whatever skill they have.) I recall times while growing up when I chose "fitting in" or "being liked" over being good at a sport or math or science. I did not communicate these events with my parents and so probably missed important guidance.

On the other hand, because of how my Dad was/family dynamics, I did not become an auto mechanic (I was doing really well in high school courses), or a helicopter pilot. My top five in the state tennis playing sister
suddenly stopped playing tennis after some conversation with Dad. (He wanted her to be a social butterfly instead of a tomboy.) Michael Jordan would not have excelled at basketball if not for the support and guidance
of his family (I think a particular grandfather more than anybody).

Drive is certainly a factor in functioning. Ditto for desire. Ability to apply knowledge is another crucial factor.

I know someone who was nationally ranked in the top ten in a sport. She quit because she does not have the drive or desire to continue competing and training. (First example off the top of my head. I'm sure we all of someone similar in a more intellectual field.)

How people interpret personalities is something else to consider. Bill Clinton has been criticized for being indecisive when he was just pondering options and information.

The founder of one of the Moog companies (synthesizers or auto products, I can't recall which Moog - probably the auto parts company) would probably be hard for a lot of people to relate to. He almost exclusively thinks in pictures. He communicated with his employees almost exclusively by drawing or creating physical models.
He communicated his desired organizational structure by creating a 3D model. I'm sure he hired bright people to
interpret him and implement.

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Karen Blundell 9 years ago

Wasted lives of highly intelligent people are very common - I know quite a few brilliant people who live in abject poverty - whether from choice or because of substance abuse problems.

Sal mentioned the schools in America playing a role in suppressing genius - it's the same here - instead mediocrity is praised.
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MissTerraK 9 years ago

I've always thought that wisdom was the quality of having experience, knowledge, good judgement, insight, and common sense and being able to utilize all of them thereby being able to determine what will happen from all scopes of a situation, then choose the wisest way.

The ability to be able to judge correctly and follow the right path or the right course of action accordingly. And of course, the level of wisdom one has would come from life experience with age not being a factor.

I'm sure you've heard someone declare "she was wiser than her years." And that would be because she had a lot of life experience in the small amount of life that she had lived thus far and learned from those experiences.

Am I wrong?

Terra
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- Karen Blundell 9 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by MissTerraK
  
  .
  
  Am I wrong?
  
  Terra
  
  I don't think so, Terra. Some people are slower to gain wisdom then others, though - or they never wise up. They make the same mistakes over and over again hoping for a different outcome. And these are people with higher than average IQ's.
  
  So it would seem to me that common sense and wisdom are far more valuable assets than a high IQ.
  
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  MissTerraK 9 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Karen Blundell
  
  . Some people are slower to gain wisdom then others, though - or they never wise up.
  
  Ain't that the truth, LOL!
  
  Terra
  
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Claude Whitacre

9 years ago

Originally Posted by bizgrower

I always liked the saying:

"Wisdom is the daughter of experience"

― Leonardo da Vinci

Intelligence or smart at what? I have a repeat customer who is a top notch lawyer. Yet, he can't
figure out that if you just jiggle the toilet handle to move it up to the off position, the toilet will stop
running. He also can't figure out the remote control for the Air Conditioning unit. It was very easy
for me to figure out, but not intuitive for him.
.

I think you've hit on something that isn't discussed much. Many geniuses have brains that are defective in parts, and other sections make up for it by being highly efficient. This can lead to genius in some areas, and deficiencies in others.

The guy that can't figure out how toilet works? That just uses a part of the brain that isn't generally active for him, or is damaged.

I'm sure there are people that take IQ tests, and they score at genius level in all areas. But the few geniuses I know, aren't like that at all. Maybe they have an exceptional memory, or a gift for math or music. So, in their specific aptitude, they are geniuses. But in other ways they are normal, or even deficient.

For example, I score at about 180 in one area....patterns and geometric shapes...and dull normal in every other area. So, I guess I could say that I'm a genius....but 99% of the time, it wouldn't apply to the discussion. So, Like the Moog guy, I have to think in a very specific way, to get things done. And I'm avoiding buying a new car, because the controls will be very hard to learn. So, I avoid situations where my weaknesses are evident.

And, intelligence is not ambition. I don't even think they are elated. One of my best friends is a force of nature. He's a multi-millionaire, who can sell better than anyone I know, including me. But he doesn't even have a glancing acquaintance with the laws of physics, or how things really work. But he's ambitious, has advanced social skills, and is ruthless.

Everything else, he hires out.

Bobby Fisher was a genius. He was better at chess than anyone in the world. But outside of that world, he was dysfunctional, and died penniless and reviled. One part of his brain, the part that processed strategic moves, was very advanced and wired beautifully. The rest? Not so much.

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MikeAmbrosio

9 years ago

Thank goodness I'm not a genius. I'm too smart for that.

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butters 9 years ago

Originally Posted by MikeAmbrosio

Thank goodness I'm not a genius. I'm too smart for that.

A super genius? Can it be true!!!
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- MikeAmbrosio 9 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by butters
  
  A super genius? Can it be true!!!
  
  No no no. There's only ONE Super Genius I ever heard of:
  
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- bizgrower 9 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by butters
  
  A super genius? Can it be true!!!
  
  Sure could be. We have Super Lawyers in the US and London.
  A rating service/marketing ploy. Lawyer & Attorney Ratings : Find Rated Lawyers & Attorneys at Super Lawyers
  
  A friend and I joked about starting Super Duper Lawyers. (She's a marketing
  director for a law firm.)
  
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  "If you think you're the smartest person in the room, then you're probably in the wrong room."
  
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The Surprising Downsides Of Being Clever

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