Another Police Shooting And It's Too Close To My Own Back Yard!

9 years ago

Who knows but get ready for more looting and antisocial behavior...
PS. Do you believe that the police are actually out to murder black men?

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Kay King

9 years ago

I don't care if he was shot. A known felon, wanted for armed robbery (that means there was a victim of this guy), an habitual offender.

Hiding in his family's home -and the family lies to police about it.

Tough - that's what happens.

If some of the neighborhoods want to blame police for every arrest that goes bad when the suspect runs away, hides, appears to reach for a weapon, resist arrest....then let those neighborhoods police themselves and take police out of the mix. See how they like that way of life.

I think the anti-cop hysteria has gone too far and it's time "regular" people - of all persuasions - began speaking up in defense of job police depts do.

Yes, there are some bad cops - but there are a lot more criminals.

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MissTerraK

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

I don't care if he was shot. A known felon, wanted for armed robbery (that means there was a victim of this guy), an habitual offender.

Hiding in his family's home -and the family lies to police about it.

Tough - that's what happens.

If some of the neighborhoods want to blame police for every arrest that goes bad when the suspect runs away, hides, appears to reach for a weapon, resist arrest....then let those neighborhoods police themselves and take police out of the mix. See how they like that way of life.

I think the anti-cop hysteria has gone too far and it's time "regular" people - of all persuasions - began speaking up in defense of job police depts do.

Yes, there are some bad cops - but there are a lot more criminals.

Kay,

He was more than shot, he was killed!

Was he a criminal, yes, but was he a human being!

We have a justice system set up for a reason. And that reason isn't for law enforcement to shoot down criminals before their day in court.

I can't believe that you find murdering a person guilty of a crime perfectly fine because he committed said crime.

That's just scary as heck!!

Terra

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discrat

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

I don't care if he was shot.

How easy to say such an insensitive remark from afar and without knowing the full circumstances

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Kay King

9 years ago

It's just as easy as bashing the cops who were doing their job - posting hearsay bystander comments as fact and agonizing over a felon coming at police with a hammer.

This man could have surrendered - he chose not to.

I have my opinion - others have theirs.

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Kay King

9 years ago

I have seen that most of the people being killed are on the poor end of the social spectrum and in the US people are being conditioned to hate the poor instead of seeking answers to the problem of poverty.

From what I've seen most of those shot are running from or attacking police at the time...or resisting arrest.

I think part of the problem is that much of the public never knew how cops and bad guys "worked". They read stories in magazine and in the paper - they watched movies. For generations there was a respect for authority that led people to trust police whether they should have or not.

Now people can see how police actions can go wrong or violent - and they are armchair quarterbacking from the safety of their living rooms. And they use any and everything to make the "case" of "bad cops - something must be done".

The 90 yr old "vet" is from 2013 - police were CALLED (911) by the nursing home - he had a 12 in knife and was threatening to hurt other patients and staff . He was not shot with a gun - but was tasered and it didn't stop him so cop fired beanbags at him. He later died.

Old lady was killed by a cop - and the cop was fired (Texas - 2014). She was threatening her nephew with a .38...shot the gun into the ground a couple times - cops were called by neighbors and when she would not give up the gun she was shot. Of course, had she shot the cop with the .38 she had in her hand....he'd be the dead one.

It can't be easy to make these quick decisions and there's not time for a conference call on what to do when someone is physically attacking you or holding a weapon that threatens other people.

That's why they have investigations after the fact - to find out the truth of what happened. Often by then it's too late because people have already decided what "the truth" is.

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MissTerraK

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

It's just as easy as bashing the cops who were doing their job - posting hearsay bystander comments as fact and agonizing over a felon coming at police with a hammer.

And just where is that in this thread? I don't see anyone who posted hearsay bystander comments as fact or anyone bashing cops doing their job.

Where's the bashing again, and where is the hearsay stated as fact?

Terra

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MissTerraK 9 years ago

So far, the protest is remaining peaceful and I am thankful for that.

But something has me a little perplexed. The protestors are holding signs that read...Black Lives Matter!

Well of course they do and so do white, yellow, tan and red lives too! Why make this a black kid thing just like the others when the others involved a white cop on a black victim? This was black on black.

Anyway, the best way to avoid all of this "cop shooting suspect" is to not place oneself in the position of being a suspect. Hello? Avoid doing things that will bring the police to your butt! Abide by the law and all of this will go away. But sadly, this is not going to happen...Sigh...in a perfect world and we live in a perfect world NOT!!

Terra
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MissTerraK

9 years ago

Originally Posted by salegurus

Who knows but get ready for more looting and antisocial behavior...
PS. Do you believe that the police are actually out to murder black men?

I really don't believe that at all, but there sure is something going on. I'm not quite sure if it's just the media depicting all of these as of late as a "new trend" and it has been going on all along without the media coverage or if it actually is a new trend.

I'm concerned, none the less. I believe a full out race war here will cripple our country. You know, a united we stand, divided we fall kind of thing.

However, this incident did not involve a white law enforcement officer, it was a black one. So we'll have to see how it plays out.

Regardless, I know there are many good cops, but I have to wonder, what, if anything, is an undercurrent flowing through law enforcement.

Terra

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Karen Blundell

9 years ago

Originally Posted by MissTerraK

I really don't believe that at all, but there sure is something going on. I'm not quite sure if it's just the media depicting all of these as of late as a "new trend" and it has been going on all along without the media coverage or if it actually is a new trend.

I'm concerned, none the less. I believe a full out race war here will cripple our country. You know, a united we stand, divided we fall kind of thing.

However, this incident did not involve a white law enforcement officer, it was a black one. So we'll have to see how it plays out.

Regardless, I know there are many good cops, but I have to wonder, what, if anything, is an undercurrent flowing through law enforcement.

Terra

I think your instincts are right, Terra, but to discuss it on a public forum would be a mistake, imho. Just keep your eyes wide open - and be vigilant. Enough said.

Take care.

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HeySal

9 years ago

Originally Posted by salegurus

Who knows but get ready for more looting and antisocial behavior...
PS. Do you believe that the police are actually out to murder black men?

No - they're killing whites 2 to 1. This kind of crap always takes place when a gov is trying to turn a country into a fascist swill pit. It helps them usher in martial law. Right now we have a lot of publicity on only the shootings of blacks because the black community has a lot of people around that remember the clash for civil rights not too long ago and they are more reactive. Whites don't remember much about fighting for freedom right on their own doorsteps and aren't as reactive - so aren't as useful.

I won't say that NO black shootings are just some prejudice a**hole with a chip on their shoulder - but if you look at the stats, you'll see it's not just a racial problem at all.

I have seen that most of the people being killed are on the poor end of the social spectrum and in the US people are being conditioned to hate the poor instead of seeking answers to the problem of poverty.

You want to see some sick crap - you should see some of the recent killings that aren't making headlines -- like the 90 some year old vet in a nursing home in a wheelchair wielding a butter knife. They gunned him down like a dog with rabies. He's the third incident of very old people being shot by cops lately that I've heard about.

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Kurt

9 years ago

Originally Posted by HeySal

No - they're killing whites 2 to 1. This kind of crap always takes place when a gov is trying to turn a country into a fascist swill pit. It helps them usher in martial law. Right now we have a lot of publicity on only the shootings of blacks because the black community has a lot of people around that remember the clash for civil rights not too long ago and they are more reactive. Whites don't remember much about fighting for freedom right on their own doorsteps and aren't as reactive - so aren't as useful.

I won't say that NO black shootings are just some prejudice a**hole with a chip on their shoulder - but if you look at the stats, you'll see it's not just a racial problem at all.

I have seen that most of the people being killed are on the poor end of the social spectrum and in the US people are being conditioned to hate the poor instead of seeking answers to the problem of poverty.

You want to see some sick crap - you should see some of the recent killings that aren't making headlines -- like the 90 some year old vet in a nursing home in a wheelchair wielding a butter knife. They gunned him down like a dog with rabies. He's the third incident of very old people being shot by cops lately that I've heard about.

You really need to take a class in statistics...

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HeySal

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Kurt

You really need to take a class in statistics...

Actually - no I don't. I've been watching this problem for awhile. The public isn't getting straight stats - or balanced news. I can't remember the stats for 2014, and my hard drive crashed so records lost right now. Whites are shot 2 to 1.

I'm not saying that everyone shot didn't just outright ask for it, either. But that's the stats. We have an authority problem, and it's a big one. If you don't like that, well - tough noogies. If my nephew can rescue my data I have all the links, all the studies. If I need to at any point get them again for something important instead of just a forum conversation, I'll look it all up again and share the links.

Detroit has had major crime since I can remember. My mom and dad wouldn't let me go near the town without them or someone they trusted to keep me out of dangerous areas until I was 17 (and we lived right next to Flint - crime capital of the US back then). Detroit's always been a sewer so no telling what went on there. It's hard to say whether it's the cops or criminals that are worse out there.

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Sal
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discrat

9 years ago

Originally Posted by HeySal

Actually - no I don't. I've been watching this problem for awhile. The public isn't getting straight stats - or balanced news. I can't remember the stats for 2014, and my hard drive crashed so records lost right now. Whites are shot 2 to 1.

Oh the ole trusty hard drive crash to come rescue the day

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seasoned 9 years ago

Originally Posted by discrat

Oh the ole trusty hard drive crash to come rescue the day

WHAT, ONE woman stole everything, misused the system, ...., and then claims that EVERY system crashed so she can't obey a court and congressional subpoena, and you say that heysal is the same? FUNNY, the OTHER woman seems to be getting away with it!

Steve
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Kurt

9 years ago

Originally Posted by HeySal

Actually - no I don't. I've been watching this problem for awhile. The public isn't getting straight stats - or balanced news. I can't remember the stats for 2014, and my hard drive crashed so records lost right now. Whites are shot 2 to 1.

I'm not saying that everyone shot didn't just outright ask for it, either. But that's the stats. We have an authority problem, and it's a big one. If you don't like that, well - tough noogies. If my nephew can rescue my data I have all the links, all the studies. If I need to at any point get them again for something important instead of just a forum conversation, I'll look it all up again and share the links.

Detroit has had major crime since I can remember. My mom and dad wouldn't let me go near the town without them or someone they trusted to keep me out of dangerous areas until I was 17 (and we lived right next to Flint - crime capital of the US back then). Detroit's always been a sewer so no telling what went on there. It's hard to say whether it's the cops or criminals that are worse out there.

Actually, yes you do. As I posted on another thread, in the US whites out number blacks 3 or 4 to 1, depending on how Latinos are included in the stats.

This means that if things were equal, whites "should be" killed 3-4 to 1, not 2 to 1, meaning if there's no other factors, blacks are more likely to be killed by cops at a rate 50-100% higher than whites.

There could be other factors such as the death rates may be the same for both races in poor or high crime areas. However, you haven't presented any statistics to support this.

I'm accepting your stat of 2 to 1. I don't know if it's accurate or not. But that isn't the flaw in your use of stats I'm contesting. It's stating whites are killed twice as often without factoring in the distribution of whites and blacks is a faulty use of statistics that is my issue.

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Kurt

9 years ago

Running and hiding isn't an excuse for cops to kill someone. The only reason a cop should shoot someone is because their life is at risk, or others' lives are at risk. And a cop that does shoot someone for running and hiding IS a criminal.

And "tough that's what happens" is a pathetic reason to justify murder.

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Kay King

9 years ago

He was more than shot, he was killed!

Was he a criminal, yes, but was he a human being!

I don't know - "was he"?

What would YOU have done? Politely ask him to drop any weapons he might have and come with you quietly? And if he appeared to have a gun - would you wait to see if he was going to shoot you before opening fire yourself?

Shooting can kill you! - That's why you don't hide - especially when you are KNOWN to have weapons and have used guns in your criminal activities against law-abiding citizens.

We want cops to go and get the bad guys who rob homes and stores and threaten people with guns - but then we want them to do it delicately?

I can't believe that you find murdering a person guilty of a crime perfectly fine because he committed said crime.

You've passed judgement on the police - but you weren't there - you don't know the cops or the criminal - you don't know if he had a weapon or said he had one or was believed to have one. You just want everyone to play nice and be safe.

Craig said the suspect was armed with a hammer but there was no evidence to suggest he had a gun. The chief also noted the agent who fired his weapon did so while retreating.
"The ICE agent was met by the suspect who I was told presented a threat, and the officer used lethal force," he said.

This story is being driven by a relative who was not in the house during the arrest and by a couple bystanders who had no idea what happened except "someone got shot".

I guess some here would holster their weapon if a suspect came at them only a hammer...after all, a hammer isn't a dangerous weapon. I guess I'm a bad guy - if I had a gun in my hand and someone came at me with a hammer, I'd shoot him.

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MissTerraK

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

I don't know - "was he"?

What would YOU have done? Politely ask him to drop any weapons he might have and come with you quietly? And if he appeared to have a gun - would you wait to see if he was going to shoot you before opening fire yourself?

I can't answer that as I'm not a law enforcement officer and have not gone through the proper training.

I know I would have shot if he aimed a gun at me, but that isn't the case here, quite clearly.

If we give law enforcement the right to shoot someone suspected of owning a firearm who is suspected of committing a crime, then we are in serious trouble!!

Anyway, the ICE officer has already said he fired because he thought the suspect had a hammer, not a gun.

20-year-old suspect fatally shot by fugitive task force officer

DETROIT (WJBK) - A 20-year-old man was fatally shot by a fugitive task force officer trying to serve a warrant in Detroit Monday.
Police say Terrence Kelom charged the officer with a hammer, leading to the shooting.

PS. I'm glad YOU are not a law enforcement officer.

Terra

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MissTerraK

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

This story is being driven by a relative who was not in the house during the arrest and by a couple bystanders who had no idea what happened except "someone got shot".

No it's not.

It's being driven by the fact that an ICE officer shot and killed a suspected criminal who had also violated his parole terms, period.

Terra

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Karen Blundell

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

I guess some here would holster their weapon if a suspect came at them only a hammer...after all, a hammer isn't a dangerous weapon. I guess I'm a bad guy - if I had a gun in my hand and someone came at me with a hammer, I'd shoot him.

you can shoot someone to stop them, you don't have to kill them -
yes a hammer can kill someone, but a gun trumps a hammer any day -
so why wasn't the criminal's hand shot so that he would drop the hammer instead?
and don't tell me it can't be done - it can. Police officers are trained to shoot accurately.

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Synnuh

9 years ago

Running and hiding -- to possibly get a gun.

The media doesn't want to justify why the cop shot the kid.

Put yourself in his shoes.

You've got to respond to a call in the ghetto, chasing down a known armed and aggravated robber, who have his friends and family's hatred of police helping to cover up his wrongdoings.

Not only today, but you've had to do this same routine for years.

Then the kid happens to not do what you tell him to. IE: Put your hands up. Don't move. Freeze. Come out of the house. Don't reach for a weapon.

What are you going to do?

I haven't personally had the thrill of having a cop put his gun on me and tell me to get on the ground (not hard enough ;/ ) but I can say with 100% certainty that if I ever did find myself in that position my family isn't going to protect me and hide me from the cops, and I sure as hell ain't going to act like I'm doing anything other than moving my hands as far away from my body as I can and getting on the ground as slowly and methodically as I can.

In theory, it shouldn't be that hard to keep a cop from shooting you. Never personally been in the situation though, so I dunno!

I'm personally sick of seeing lowlife degenerates running amok, causing havoc, and not paying their dues.

If you want to be a dumbass that has multiple run-ins with the law, and then act like a thug when you're caught. So be it.

Stay hard, yo! Ask Aaron Hernandez how that's going.

I live in Jacksonville, FL and in the last year I've been robbed by a thug and his girlfriend with a steel pipe, had my windows busted out at the movie theater, and have to get my pistol out of the car anytime there is a group of more than 3-4 "thugs" parading around the front of gas stations.

My brother in law got jumped by 6 thugs for trying to stand up for a chick outside of a restaurant. They beat his ass in front of 100 people and on camera. He stutters now because of the beating. You think that's fair?

Someone with a carry and conceal should have ended it. I wonder if that story would have made the news?

"Armed civilian stops group of 6 thugs from beating white man to death"

Forget 'em.

FWIW -- A criminal stops being a "human being" and just another drain on the system when they begin committing crimes against other people, not giving back to the community, teaching younger generations how to do the same messed up crap they're doing, and acting like a complete asshole because it's the "thug" thing to do.

At that point they're a number in the system. Until they change it.

It's what I pay taxes for. Or something like it.

P.S. The only reason you're hearing about it lately is because of the massive influx of cell phones, and the ease of getting our country into a near-riot state by provoking people's emotions with racial based stories. It's pulling at straws by our media. And sadly it works all too well.

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WalkingCarpet

Banned 9 years ago

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Claude Whitacre

9 years ago

We weren't there. I haven't read anything else about this.

But a parent, describing what happened, isn't a reliable witness. No parent is going to say, "my son was threatening the officer, and so the officer had to shoot him".

And, it makes a far far better story, if the kid is a victim.

But...we weren't there.

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MissTerraK

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

We weren't there. I haven't read anything else about this.

But a parent, describing what happened, isn't a reliable witness. No parent is going to say, "my son was threatening the officer, and so the officer had to shoot him".

And, it makes a far far better story, if the kid is a victim.

But...we weren't there.

Exactly, we weren't, which is why I repeat that we will have to see how this plays out.

My point in posting this is twofold. First, another police shooting and second, this one close to home. Two irrefutable facts by the way.

Terra

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Kurt

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

We weren't there. I haven't read anything else about this.

But a parent, describing what happened, isn't a reliable witness. No parent is going to say, "my son was threatening the officer, and so the officer had to shoot him".

And, it makes a far far better story, if the kid is a victim.

But...we weren't there.

And a cop that just killed someone may not be the most reliable witness either. No cop is going to say he killed someone because he's a sadistic killer.

However, my own comments weren't about any specific incident and were general.

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MissTerraK

9 years ago

Update:

There is a protest against police brutality scheduled for 4 pm this afternoon where the shooting happened.

I hope and pray it stays non-violent! This is what I was concerned about, a tad bit scared about as other protests have turned violent in other areas.

Terra

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butters

9 years ago

Originally Posted by MissTerraK

Update:

There is a protest against police brutality scheduled for 4 pm this afternoon where the shooting happened.

I hope and pray it stays non-violent! This is what I was concerned about, a tad bit scared about as other protests have turned violent in other areas.

Terra

Don't leave your car parked on the street (if it is) just encase!

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MissTerraK

9 years ago

Originally Posted by butters

Don't leave your car parked on the street (if it is) just encase!

LOL, Lee.

This happened in Detroit and I live in Clarkston. It's about 50 miles away from my car.

But thanks for you concern. =)

Terra

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butters

9 years ago

Originally Posted by MissTerraK

LOL, Lee.

This happened in Detroit and I live in Clarkston. It's about 50 miles away from my car.

But thanks for you concern. =)

Terra

Just pretend I know nothing about America

I thought you litterally meant, just over the road lol!

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MissTerraK 9 years ago

Originally Posted by butters

Just pretend I know nothing about America I thought you litterally meant, just over the road lol!

You got it!

Terra
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- AprilCT 9 years ago
  
  I don't want to try either the suspect or the cop in the court of public opinion without all the real, honest-to-goodness hard facts. Just off the top of my head, I would suspect the cop might have had good reason to shoot, but it's not my call. I can't imagine any cop wanting to kill someone as part of a day's work, and if he or she does, the law needs to be focused to remedy that situation fast.
  
  Since we are not directly involved, we probably will not actually know enough to make a correct and competent judgment. Television news, newspaper and other articles do not necessarily accurately report the facts or even enough facts to enable the right decision. Unless there is direct access to all the information, we just don't know.
  
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seasoned

9 years ago

Originally Posted by butters

Just pretend I know nothing about America

I thought you litterally meant, just over the road lol!

At least in the US, back yard, in this context, means it feels very close. Even if it is 3000+ miles away, it could be in the back yard. So terra is basically saying "It hits too close to home".

Steve

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Jason Freeman

9 years ago

I find it strange that other countries police forces are able to resolve situations without shooting someone.

Here is a website where they track police shootings.

Killed By Police - 2015

Did you know police shootings are not even tracked by the government? I find that really strange as if no one wants that number out there.

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seasoned

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Jason Freeman

I find it strange that other countries police forces are able to resolve situations without shooting someone.

Here is a website where they track police shootings.

Killed By Police - 2015

Did you know police shootings are not even tracked by the government? I find that really strange as if no one wants that number out there.

ACTUALLY, in the US, it is supposed to be a sort of FEDERATION of states with the federal government handling cooperation BETWEEN the states, handling disputes that go beyond the state, and handling international trade and relations. The federal government was NOT to control people or proper governments WITHIN the states! THAT is why each state has different laws, a different president(they are called governors, but they do the EXACT same thing on the state level that the president does on a federal level), and a different congress, etc.... The governors ALSO have people that THEY have ****LIMITED**** control over, though they are called mayors, to the presidents governors. And the MAYORS are supposed to deal with commissioners, and one is supposed to manage the cheifs of police in the various precincts.

BTW HERE is how wikipedia describes federation:

A federation (from Latin: foedus, gen.: foederis, "covenant"), also known as a federal state, is a political entity characterized by a union of partially self-governing states or regions under a central (federal) government. In a federation, the self-governing status of the component states, as well as the division of power between them and the central government, are typically constitutionally entrenched and may not be altered by a unilateral decision of either party, the states or the federal political body

So the Federal government is SUPPOSED to be like the EU was originally sold, and NOT how the EU is now trying to be. AND, ironically, in europe, they often talk of the overall government being the STATE. It is a pity though. I think the country having the BEST chance to pull this off and everything was the US! AND, for over a hundred years, it DID! But I guess the government that best pulled it off was SWITZERLAND! SWITZERLAND is ALSO not ONE country per se, but a FEDERATION of "states" they call cantons. THAT is why their official age old name and source of their ISO2 code, CH, is Confederatio Helvetica. And what is a confederation:

A confederation (also known as confederacy or league) is a union of political units for common action in relation to other units.[1] Usually created by treaty but often later adopting a common constitution, confederations tend to be established for dealing with critical issues (such as defense, foreign affairs, or a common currency), with the central government being required to provide support for all members.

As for foreign governments? YEAH! Finland(or was it sweden or both), and england are among MANY having trouble! Did you know that they are now arguing that a 19year old doesn't know right from wrong or that bombs can hurt? It is TRUE! A couple brothers set up bombs to BOMB the boston marathon a while back. One died, and the other is on trial NOW!!!!

Boston Marathon bomber's lawyer points to family dysfunction

Now HOW should THIS have been handled? ******BEWARE******! Other countries involved have included germany, finland, sweden denmark, great britain, australia, canada, etc.... They have NOT had better luck! In fact, THEY only have 3, maybe 4, strikes against them! The US has SIX, maybe 7!!!!!!!!!!! So the fact that they are affected AT ALL is REMARKABLE, but they HAVE BEEN! So WHY does the US have SIX? The US is a major power trying to fight against it. The US has had a fatwa declared against it, SPECIFICALLY! The US has supported Israel! The three, or 4, others are strikes almost all western countries have against them, INCLUDING all those named above.

BTW The boston marathon is downright international! People from france, Germany, australia, the UK, etc... ALL come to run! Believe it or not, it is THAT popular! So an attack against IT might as well have been against the OLYMPICS!

Steve

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TLTheLiberator

9 years ago

The looting by some is unnecessary and counterproductive and I have no problem with someone putting a stop to it.

And...

Not all deaths with police involvement are unnecessary and I don't know about this one.

But I suspect too many unnecessary police deaths have been been going on for quite some time.

Now with the technology, I believe this is the beginning of a long drawn out process that will either cut those unnecessary deaths down to a minimum and/or more wayward police will go to jail.

If there was a camera in that police van in Baltimore I doubt the guy would be now dead.

I believe I just saw an article the other day that the city of Chicago has paid over half a billion dollars in settlements - involving police activity over the last 10 years.

The rioters are out of control and so are too many men in blue.

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MissTerraK 9 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

The rioters are out of control and so are too many men in blue.

Exactly, TL.

I may own a pink cowboy hat and pink cowboy boots but that doesn't mean I want us to revert back to the wild, wild West.

Terra
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Synnuh

9 years ago

Thats the peoblem Terra. Nobody wants the wild west all over again except the thugs.

Serious question how do you feel the problem should be dealt with?

Im not fond of cops either but i know what thugs and criminals are and do. If cops are taking all the blame while people are rioting and looting and carrying the "burn this bitxh down" mentality, what are civilized people supposed to do?

They dont care that you or I want to live in a civilized world.

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MissTerraK

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Synnuh

Thats the peoblem Terra. Nobody wants the wild west all over again except the thugs.

Serious question how do you feel the problem should be dealt with?

Im not fond of cops either but i know what thugs and criminals are and do. If cops are taking all the blame while people are rioting and looting and carrying the "burn this bitxh down" mentality, what are civilized people supposed to do?

They dont care that you or I want to live in a civilized world.

I think you have misunderstood me.

I respect police officers. I always have but it is the rogue cops I have a problem with. The Law is for every citizen and doesn't exclude the men and women in blue. (I'm not saying that this officer in question is rogue just in case someone decides I did. There simply hasn't been enough time for the investigation to be complete.)

I don't know enough about what it takes to become a police officer to answer your question, but perhaps more stringent psychological testing before becoming a police officer and maybe quarterly or bi-yearly re-evaluations in that arena.

As for rioters, I've not heard where police officers are taking the blame for them.

Terra

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yukon

Banned 9 years ago

In the Detroit incident, the suspect was black, as was the federal agent who shot him.

What they left out was 82% of Detroit is populated by black people which means there's an 82% chance a black person would be involved.

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Kay King

9 years ago

Do you not think being attacked with a hammer could be deadly?

This is what I was concerned about, a tad bit scared about as other protests have turned violent in other areas.

.

So basically to prevent protests you would have cops risk their lives or just go away when a suspect or criminal doesn't want to be arrested? Because more than crime, the fear is of protests turning violent near where you live?

Are you safer if police do not arrest felons - or insist on taking someone wanted by the law into custody? Do you feel safer in your neighborhood with police on the block....or with people who are not arrested for their crimes?

At the rate it's going - that may be a choice communities have to make. Any community can choose to reduce its police force, or remove deadly weapons from police on their force. A community could decide to tell officers to leave rather than force someone to be arrested. I don't see any towns or cities proposing that.

So, we don't want any violence - no guns - no tasers - no takedowns ....maybe cops should just say "please"?

There are some bad cops - but we're going way overboard with this.

Terra - clearly I'm tongue in cheek on some of this. But your posts are so similar to what I've heard from people in various places over the years - if the crime affects THEM they want the criminals off the street. But they don't hesitate to sympathize with criminals and suspects IF that crime isn't in their back yard.

A neighbor in MS was big on dissing govt and authorities and praising protests and civil unrest, etc.

UNTIL Hurricane Katrina and the crime and looting that followed. THEN this same neighbor stood in his driveway with a locked and loaded gun and advised everyone else to shoot looters on sight.

Different perspectives.

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MissTerraK

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

So basically to prevent protests you would have cops risk their lives or just go away when a suspect or criminal doesn't want to be arrested? Because more than crime, the fear is of protests turning violent near where you live?

Kay, Whoa!

I think you've gone off the deep end!

Seriously?

Show me where exactly I stated that?

I repeat...

Originally Posted by MissTerraK

My point in posting this is twofold. First, another police shooting and second, this one close to home. Two irrefutable facts by the way.

Terra

I would appreciate it if you would stop putting words in my mouth formed by your overactive cockeyed imagination.

I'm not the one who turned this thread sour. That happened in post number 3, not by me.

I was a little shook up when I heard the news because it was close by and shared it here. Period.

If you want a good ridiculous debate, I can contact Don for you.

When you want to discuss things reasonably, we'll talk. Until then, ramble on with your made up bull crap or get a grip.

Terra

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Cali16 9 years ago

From the articles I've read, both seemed to indicate the shooting victim was inside the home when police shot him. And, it sounded like everyone else in the family was told to leave the home before the police began their search.

So, who exactly would the "witnesses" be, except the officer or officers who were right there when he was shot? In other words, right now there seems to be a whole lot of speculation by family, friends, and onlookers who didn't actually see what happened. And those stories are almost always distorted or skewed to some degree.

I also suspect the "shot 10 times" isn't accurate (that that's an exaggeration), but only time will tell as we probably won't have those details until there's a coroner's report and the investigation into the shooting is complete.

As for whether the shooting was justified. It's always been my understanding that lethal force is justified by law enforcement if someone threatens an officer (or anyone else) with any kind of weapon, not just a gun and refuses to relinquish it when ordered. If this young man started to come at them with a hammer, then I suspect any trained law enforcement officer would shoot. And they shoot to kill. A hammer is a deadly weapon. Just because it's not a gun doesn't mean it's not a weapon just the same.

All that being said, I'm not taking any sides. There's simply not enough information at this time. Was the officer in the wrong? I don't know. Based on what I've read thus far, I'm not jumping to that conclusion.

It's sad that it happened. But let's don't assume this was another "out-of-control", "sadistic", "sociopathic", etc. officer just because this happened. Maybe he was, but we certainly don't have enough facts at this time to assume the worst just because bad cops exist.
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MissTerraK 9 years ago

Originally Posted by yukon

What they left out was 82% of Detroit is populated by black people which means there's an 82% chance a black person would be involved.

Yukon,

This isn't national news that I know of. It's local and I believe they didn't report that because locally, we all already know that.

Terra
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- WalkingCarpet Banned 9 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by MissTerraK
  
  Yukon,
  
  This isn't national news that I know of. It's local and I believe they didn't report that is because locally, we all already know that.
  
  Terra
  
  Hope they didn't shoot up ya flower bed.
  
  Thanks
  
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- yukon Banned 9 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by MissTerraK
  
  Yukon,
  
  This isn't national news that I know of. It's local and I believe they didn't report that because locally, we all already know that.
  
  Terra
  
  It's on the internet, it's global news.
  
  Also, everyone in this thread doesn't live in a Detroit suburb.
  
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  MissTerraK 9 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by yukon
  
  It's on the internet, it's global news.
  
  Also, everyone in this thread doesn't live in a Detroit suburb.
  
  Fair enough.
  
  Terra
  
  Thanks
  
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Synnuh

9 years ago

It shouldn't be done. Police, like military, are trained to shoot to kill. Anything else and the threat remains.

https://www.pfoa.co.uk/110/shooting-to-wound

If you've got a guy coming at you with a hammer, are you going to take a chance and put a bullet into his hand? Or his shoulder maybe?

What if you miss? Then you get a hammer to the face. And he gets your weapon to finish the job with.

I'm all for putting cameras on cops, and holding them accountable. But when that happens, get off their arse and let them do their jobs.

Criminals are assholes. If you dealt with them on a daily basis, you would be on edge non stop, too.

The people looking down your barrel know that you have a gun pointed at them and are legally allowed to use it against them. And choose to come at you with a hammer.

FWIW it seems like a lot of the individuals saying the criminal should still be alive hasn't had to deal with a criminal element in their own life. Or own a gun they will protect their home with. Those are the perfect crowd for the same people they're defending to target and make "marks" out of.

The guy that's being defended now? Got a nice rap sheet.

http://buzzpo.com/heres-the-arrest-r...more-down-for/

Now, seeing that, would you still aim for his hand? Because even though you managed to actually hit that small moving target with your pea shooter and disarm his hammer, he's still coming at you with a vengeance.

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MissTerraK 9 years ago

There are some interesting developments regarding the the shooting.

Both the FBI and the Detroit police are keeping details of the investigation private; not available for the public so as not to interfere with the ongoing investigations.

Autopsy reports in most states, including Michigan, are generally open to the public. Under the Michigan Freedom of Information Act, there are certain circumstances where a public document can be withheld from disclosure. For example, investigative records compiled for law enforcement purposes can be withheld if a party can show it interferes with law enforcement proceedings -- as prosecutors claim in the Kellom case.

I heard on the news tonight that the only thing released by the coroner's office was that the death was ruled a homicide, but with no other details. And that there is reportedly video of the whole incident.

Apparently, the Federal Agent has been forced into hiding because some members of the media gave out his home address and he's worried for his wife and three children's safety.

Attorney: Shooting by ICE agent was...

Both the attorney for the Federal Agent and the attorney for family have been speaking out.

Here is the most recent and most detailed report on all of it that I could find for you.

ICE agent's lawyer: Shooting of Detroiter was 'by the book'

This will be interesting when all is revealed.

Terra
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Tom Miles

9 years ago

I gotta say, "If I was confronted by a hostile with a deadly weapon (a hammer, a spear, a knife or a gun) it doesn't matter what the weapon is... That person is going down just as fast as I can put him/her down! That's not to say I would shoot to kill but I will get them before they get me or mine.

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Karen Blundell

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Tom Miles

I gotta say, "If I was confronted by a hostile with a deadly weapon (a hammer, a spear, a knife or a gun) it doesn't matter what the weapon is... That person is going down just as fast as I can put him/her down! That's not to say I would shoot to kill but I will get them before they get me or mine.

that's different - you don't want to kill - you just want to stop them from getting you or yours so you severely injure them so that they are rendered helpless.

That's why I don't understand why cops need to shoot to kill - they are trained marksmen and can shoot to maim and render a person helpless -
for example shooting kneecaps - the person shot in the kneecaps is going down -
to me it's become very clear that human life holds little value to many people.
It saddens me.

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Kay King 9 years ago

Cops are taught to shoot at the trunk of the body - aiming for a kneecap and shooting the hand are great in movies and books but not in real life. It's not "shooting to kill" so much as "shooting with the greatest chance of hitting the target".

If you are not willing to do that, you should not be carrying a gun.
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seasoned

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Karen Blundell

that's different - you don't want to kill - you just want to stop them from getting you or yours so you severely injure them so that they are rendered helpless.

That's why I don't understand why cops need to shoot to kill - they are trained marksmen and can shoot to maim and render a person helpless -
for example shooting kneecaps - the person shot in the kneecaps is going down -
to me it's become very clear that human life holds little value to many people.
It saddens me.

MAN, what do you think? I mean people think it is remarkable to hit a coin in the air, or an arrow. You ever try to wuickly shoot at an object that is 4"? OK, suppose that 4" is MOVING? Suppose the effective target is LESS than 2"! HEY, SUPPOSE, JUST SUPPOSE, that that 2" is running TOWARDS you and a fulcrum that could expose a range of 10' or more. Suppose that the maximum is OVER 20' and it is 30' away from you! OK, do you know ANYONE that could quickly aim and hit that 2" spot within the 10'? That is an average of less than 3 SECONDS! Miss by more than 2", and the person may keep running! Shoot later than 3 seconds, and he may fall, and throw that hammer, and you could be DEAD! Yep, it is a LOT better to shoot an area where the assailant may fall BACK, is more likely to stop, and YEP, might DIE! Even in MOVIES, with supposed trained snipers, and a WIDE tolerance, they may wait a LONG time for a GOOD shot! And HEY, they OBVIOUSLY tried your theory with mike brown, and look where it got them!

Steve

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Karen Blundell

9 years ago

whatever...I think killing people is wrong - period. I guess I've made that obvious -
and I'm very glad I live in a mostly peaceful environment, where killing is the exception and not the norm.

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discrat

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Karen Blundell

whatever...I think killing people is wrong - period. I guess I've made that obvious -
and I'm very glad I live in a mostly peaceful environment, where killing is the exception and not the norm.

Karen I hear you. I have been back and forth with the Death Penalty. Been against for so many years.

But as I have become somewhat of an non-professional, freelance expert on criminal Psychopaths in the last few years, I kind have switched back to being for it.

I have studied their stories, hundred of hours on youtube videos studying their mannerisms and body language ,talking to professionals and friends in the field of psychiatry and forensic, even dealing with a heinous psychopath myself who was the dad of the first girl I ever kissed etc..

Iam still not sure, though. To be honest it is a day to day thing with me.

I'm weird like that. I go back and forth and honestly my Faith tells me to be against killing even if it is with people who have no empathy and will murder your child and rape and dismember them in garbage bags if given the chance without a thought

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Nothing to see here including a Sig so just move on :)

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Kay King 9 years ago

I think many of us go back and forth. If you change your mind about the death penalty or other issues - it's not a weakness. To me, it's a sign you are always thinking and examining WHAT you believe.
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Synnuh

9 years ago

Originally Posted by discrat

I'm weird like that. I go back and forth and honestly my Faith tells me to be against killing even if it is with people who have no empathy and will murder your child and rape and dismember them in garbage bags if given the chance without a thought

Here in Florida, stuffing a child into garbage bags and sending them to an out-of-state garbage dump won't even get you a death penalty.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/02/03...ith-plea-deal/

A lot of people think he should have gotten the death penalty just from the interviews he had with police. No compassion or remorse, actually surprised almost that it was really him that did it.

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seasoned

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Karen Blundell

whatever...I think killing people is wrong - period. I guess I've made that obvious -
and I'm very glad I live in a mostly peaceful environment, where killing is the exception and not the norm.

NO decent person wants killing to be common, much less the norm. But so many figure that killing is easier than changing careers, losing popularity, going to work, etc.... THOSE three may well be the most popular reasons for killing that there are. If more people cared less about those 3, there would not only be less death, there would be less discord. If there were ONE altruistic and smart person that knew how to PRECISELY and RELIABLY do a complicated procedure in total secrecy that could REMOTELY make a person a good member of society, I would almost want them to do it, instead of killing murderers, etc... Maybe one perfect generation could bring about a lasting utopia.

Alas, such techniques are not so complex or secret, reliable or precise, and are usually perverted to further an agenda, and lead to a dystopia. UTOPIAS are RARE and tend to not last. There is ALWAYS someone that wants MORE, or wants it EASIER! DYSTOPIAS are all too common, and usually include destruction of rights, and propaganda campaigns with death of detractors and shutdown of communication, so they tend to last longer. One good villain or a believable threat can destroy a good society. How many people are required to run and enforce a peaceful society?

I WISH I could remember the name, but remember that police officer that, a few years ago, said that he was trained by the army to hide and kill people and how he threatened to kill EVERY police officer he happened across, ESPECIALLY if they were LAPD? That is a PERFECT example of all I am saying! A person SWORN to protect the law and people, whose motto was "to protect and serve", turned killer and had every police officer looking for him!

Steve

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MissTerraK 9 years ago

Hmmm,

A very interesting development in the case. Although the authorities have been tight lipped about this case, it is being reported by the family's attorney that the suspect was shot in the back...

Attorney reveals that Terrence Kellom was shot in the back

Terra
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Another Police Shooting And It's Too Close To My Own Back Yard!

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