Research Shows: NICE GUYS FINISH FIRST!!!

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Research Shows Nice Guys Finish First
  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Pretty good article. I think it underestimates a lot of animal's capabilities for empathy or at least some emotions. He does "get" that emotions are pretty much tied to our survival instincts, though. That's not really new news in cognitive science.

    Society can't survive if members are "feeding" on each other. If you take a look at our moral codes (as well as our religious dictates), you'll see that there's a lot of logic behind them. Don't kill, don't cheat, don't steal, etc. are all behaviors that will break down a society if not restricted. They are also behaviors that become prevalent when societies start to break down. Had humans not been tribal animals, we wouldn't have a lot of the traits we do.

    So - good article, but nothing surprising in it. Looks like someone's cognitive science term paper.
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    • Profile picture of the author thunderbird
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      Pretty good article. I think it underestimates a lot of animal's capabilities for empathy or at least some emotions. He does "get" that emotions are pretty much tied to our survival instincts, though. That's not really new news in cognitive science.

      Society can't survive if members are "feeding" on each other. If you take a look at our moral codes (as well as our religious dictates), you'll see that there's a lot of logic behind them. Don't kill, don't cheat, don't steal, etc. are all behaviors that will break down a society if not restricted. They are also behaviors that become prevalent when societies start to break down. Had humans not been tribal animals, we wouldn't have a lot of the traits we do.

      So - good article, but nothing surprising in it. Looks like someone's cognitive science term paper.
      For me, the article, the research, was very welcome news. I actually get pressured from certain people in my circles to be meaner. I've gotten nasty ear-fulls for giving giving someone a break, not giving someone a hard time for a mistake in an order or whatever. I don't like being mean and I've literally had to stand my ground in that, saying that I'd rather be nice to people, whatever price I pay for doing so.
      (To Whom This Applies: Ayn Rand was wrong. Get used to it. You don't have to be an a-hole any more.)
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      • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
        Originally Posted by thunderbird View Post

        For me, the article, the research, was very welcome news. I actually get pressured from certain people in my circles to me meaner. I've gotten nasty ear-fulls for giving giving someone a break, not giving someone a hard time for a mistake in an order or whatever. I don't like being mean and I've literally had to stand my ground in that, saying that I'd rather be nice to people, whatever price I pay for doing so.
        (To Whom This Applies: Ayn Rand was wrong. Get used to it. You don't have to be an a-hole any more.)
        I absolutely concur!

        When I was supervising last year, I was the same way. And you know what? All of the employees respected me and would bend over backwards to do anything I asked of them while under their breath, would bad mouth some of the other managers and bosses when told to do something.

        My favorite thing to do if someone gets nasty with me is kill them with kindness! I love to see them try to get me engaged in an argument and yet I tell them I agree with them and if I were in their place, I'd feel the same way. Some cantankerous people get frustrated, throw their hands up in the air and walk away, hee,hee!


        Terra
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  • Profile picture of the author Synnuh
    Thunderbird, I was that way for a LONG time. It wasn't until I got a spine that people stopped making as many mistakes and trying to take advantage of me.

    I'm not mean by any definition. I don't say things to hurt people, and don't cut them down when they make a mistake.

    But I'm also very firm about mistakes not being accepted, why it was made, how to avoid it, and what happens if it's to happen again.

    You're not really being mean. You're letting people know what you're willing to accept in your life.

    If that is letting people slide, there's nothing wrong with it -- it's working for you.

    Throwing it out there, though. People didn't respect me until I "told them where the bear shxts"

    Now the same people that used to try to take advantage of me, and slide things by come to me for advice and help.

    Nice guys definitely don't finish last. Pushovers and people with a missing backbone do.

    Terra, that works in a lot of situations.

    You've got to be willing to go "hard" when they test the lines, though. A lot of employees mistake your kindness for weakness until you change it.

    Are you comfortable firing people? It took my a while to be able to let someone go.
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    • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
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      Originally Posted by Synnuh View Post

      Are you comfortable firing people? It took my a while to be able to let someone go.
      When I used to staff my telemarketing rooms I would always hire a couple of obvious butt-holes for the sole purpose of dramatically firing them. That always had around a two month effect on the rest of the troops staying in line. I only had to call the cops once for getting threatened with having the crap beat out of me.

      Yes, the overrides on the room were worth it. :-)

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    • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
      Originally Posted by Synnuh View Post

      Thunderbird, I was that way for a LONG time. It wasn't until I got a spine that people stopped making as many mistakes and trying to take advantage of me.

      I'm not mean by any definition. I don't say things to hurt people, and don't cut them down when they make a mistake.

      But I'm also very firm about mistakes not being accepted, why it was made, how to avoid it, and what happens if it's to happen again.

      You're not really being mean. You're letting people know what you're willing to accept in your life.

      If that is letting people slide, there's nothing wrong with it -- it's working for you.

      Throwing it out there, though. People didn't respect me until I "told them where the bear shxts"

      Now the same people that used to try to take advantage of me, and slide things by come to me for advice and help.

      Nice guys definitely don't finish last. Pushovers and people with a missing backbone do.

      Terra, that works in a lot of situations.

      You've got to be willing to go "hard" when they test the lines, though. A lot of employees mistake your kindness for weakness until you change it.

      Are you comfortable firing people? It took my a while to be able to let someone go.
      I don't have a problem with firing people at all!

      I had to do it twice. I don't like it, but I did it.

      I didn't yell at them, I just talked calmly with them, let them know their behavior, laziness, manner with customers, not being a good team member, whatever, was making them a bad apple and bad apples spoil the whole bushel. And due to having a stupendous bushel that I didn't want spoiled, I had to let them go.

      That was that.


      Terra
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    • Profile picture of the author thunderbird
      Originally Posted by Synnuh View Post

      Thunderbird, I was that way for a LONG time. It wasn't until I got a spine that people stopped making as many mistakes and trying to take advantage of me.

      I'm not mean by any definition. I don't say things to hurt people, and don't cut them down when they make a mistake.

      But I'm also very firm about mistakes not being accepted, why it was made, how to avoid it, and what happens if it's to happen again.

      You're not really being mean. You're letting people know what you're willing to accept in your life.

      If that is letting people slide, there's nothing wrong with it -- it's working for you.

      Throwing it out there, though. People didn't respect me until I "told them where the bear shxts"

      Now the same people that used to try to take advantage of me, and slide things by come to me for advice and help.

      Nice guys definitely don't finish last. Pushovers and people with a missing backbone do.

      Terra, that works in a lot of situations.

      You've got to be willing to go "hard" when they test the lines, though. A lot of employees mistake your kindness for weakness until you change it.

      Are you comfortable firing people? It took my a while to be able to let someone go.
      Your reply is thoughtful and detailed, but is it about being nice vs nasty? To begin, it sounds like you're a pleasant enough person. Who said anything about being a push-over? For example, the most effective bouncers tend to be nice guys with the ability to defuse situations rather than escalate them. The very best might get jobs in the Secret Service.

      It actually takes more strength and intelligence to be a nice guy than to be nasty. Being nice requires the ability to harmonize which demands the kind of perception probably lacking in someone of nasty disposition. One can make adjustments and put things in order without being mean about it. Nastiness is a form of dissonance, being out of tune, a symptom of cognitive deficits. It is quite possible to form teams and let people go without being nasty about it.
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      • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
        From the article.

        "They found that the act of helping another person triggers activity in the caudate nucleus and anterior cingulate cortex regions of the brain, the parts involved in pleasure and reward. That is, serving others may produce the same sort of pleasure as gratifying a personal desire."

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  • Profile picture of the author Synnuh
    Right on. I wasn't ever that elegant lol

    I'd waste too much time and money trying to train them to fit my mold, then end up being friends with them and letting them leech off me.

    I should have just cut them loose and kept the money in my pocket. Hind sight, the 20/20 thing.

    It took a while to finally tell them to produce or kick rocks.

    Once I did I cleared out a bunch of people and have been happy since. Still a "nice" guy just not a pushover.
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  • Profile picture of the author Synnuh
    Hmm, I read the article, and have visited this thread multiple times and just caught the title wasn't what I thought it was.

    Anyway, I was never really nasty. I was the exact opposite.

    Once I learned I didn't have to be nasty to get rid of people who weren't performing, life got easier.
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