Insult to college grads.

9 years ago

WHY NOT? They always have! Haven't you heard? Bachelors is the new high school! And businesses often treat it like that.

Still, it IS about 50-100% more than the REAL official minimum. Oh SURE, California and the like have, in some parts, made it higher, but they are closed, and going bankrupt anyway. If businesses have too much trouble, it is all to easy to MOVE! FUNNY how those claiming otherwise always seem to remember it when they speak of boycotts! At least they remember the FLIP SIDE!

Steve

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butters

9 years ago

Graduates will do for one reason... Once you have a years experience or 2, you can leverage your degree and experience to ensure a good job, got to start at the bottom, even though your a graduate.

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Kay King 9 years ago

Right - it's not about where you start or what you "deserve"...it's about where you want to go and finding the path to get there.
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David Beroff

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Zodiax

Do they really think someone with that level of education would work for close to minimum wage?

Obviously they will. It's a free market. If you feel insulted, don't apply; plenty of others will.

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HeySal

9 years ago

Originally Posted by David Beroff

Obviously they will. It's a free market. If you feel insulted, don't apply; plenty of others will.

Seriously. We haven't had a "free market" since way before you were born.

We've been in stagflation for at least two or three decades now - and the only people making good money anymore are in only a very small scope of fields. medical, law, some sciences, politics, IT. About anyone else can just go suck eggs if they expect to have any money coming in. Some fields have actually dropped in pay. It's not a matter of insult. It is a matter that protectionism was dropped off like a bad habit and our fiat economics are now coming home to roost as laws protecting workers are being dropped off left and right. The "right to work" are a ruse and built solely for the benefit of corporations. We're right back where we were when people instituted unions to control corporate greed.

Then there's the biggest factor yet. People are agreeing to work for chump change. It used to be normal for workers to refuse jobs that were abusive or under-paid. They don't do so anymore. They go to work every day and bitch instead of just laughing that the PR manager when they describe the job and pay. I still just walk out laughing with a hearty "no thanks". If everyone else did.......things would change. CEO's would have to give up just a tad of their enormous salaries to pay workers who refused to be taken advantage of. THAT is more free market than you'll ever see ever happen again because our people are now too stupid to understand the boycott system at either the employee or consumer end.

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David Beroff

9 years ago

Originally Posted by HeySal

...It is a matter that protectionism was dropped off like a bad habit and our fiat economics are now coming home to roost as laws protecting workers are being dropped off left and right....

...People are agreeing to work for chump change....

...I still just walk out laughing with a hearty "no thanks"....

Sal, I totally get that you are very upset, and it's not my intent to argue with you. But the statements you make here actually confirm my assertion of a free market. (Note, I never said that a free market meant a livable wage.) When "protection" laws go away, when people agree to work for lower rates, when people like you decline to work at those rates, those are all indicators of a free market, almost by definition.

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HeySal

9 years ago

Originally Posted by David Beroff

Sal, I totally get that you are very upset, and it's not my intent to argue with you. But the statements you make here actually confirm my assertion of a free market. (Note, I never said that a free market meant a livable wage.) When "protection" laws go away, when people agree to work for lower rates, when people like you decline to work at those rates, those are all indicators of a free market, almost by definition.

My anger and comments have nothing to do with the fact that the free market went by the wayside a long, long, time ago. We are in full blown crony capitalism - not just headed to it, but completely absorbed by it. Grab a few books and you will see that you are completely wrong about a free market.

Free market doesn't have much to do with a boycott system working. Corporations can be killed, even when highly subsidized by politicians like ours are. The only way that can be changed is by all out fascist moves by gov that shut down all competitors to the cronied companies and industries and workers forced into the cronied companies work forces. I believe we would see all out revolution if that last step were taken or even threatened.

You will not see anywhere near a "free market" again until (i.e. unless) we disolve all connection with the FED, and subsequently World Bank, and go back to metal backed currency. Until that happens, you will never experience a truly "free market".

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seasoned

9 years ago

Originally Posted by HeySal

Seriously. We haven't had a "free market" since way before you were born.

We've been in stagflation for at least two or three decades now - and the only people making good money anymore are in only a very small scope of fields. medical, law, some sciences, politics, IT.

Actually, it is ASTOUNDING what people make money in. You only stated SOME! And medical is now endangered! Many are QUITING because of it! The last appointment I made for a new problem meant that I got an appointment for a referrer of a referrer that was a couple months out. When the day arrived, I had to quit my job, and spend THOUSANDS of dollars, *******NO THANKS*******! OK, so I DIDN'T get to see the doctor that would refer me to another to refer me to another to look at a problem I have, that they probably wouldn't take care of.

As for LAW? They charge a FORTUNE!

I could go on! OH, and the two above? Almost nobody can pay for them, so they are FINANCED!!!!!!! With MEDICAL, it is through things like health insurance. For LAW, it is through contingency, class action, etc....

About anyone else can just go suck eggs if they expect to have any money coming in. Some fields have actually dropped in pay.

Nearly ALL have dropped in pay, INCLUDING those you mentioned! The US has a neat way to decrease pa, called inflation. So if you don't get nice raises every year, you are LOSING money.

It's not a matter of insult. It is a matter that protectionism was dropped off like a bad habit and our fiat economics are now coming home to roost as laws protecting workers are being dropped off left and right. The "right to work" are a ruse and built solely for the benefit of corporations. We're right back where we were when people instituted unions to control corporate greed.

OH, corporations have greed and all, but inflation is the real killer. You speak of FIAT currency! You know WHY they have it and WHY it is a problem? *****INFLATION***** EVEN if the country abandoned it, and made it lose almost all value, it is only inflation.

UNIONS may raise wages, to a degree, but they generally decrease the value ALSO, so they are NOT a solution overall.

Then there's the biggest factor yet. People are agreeing to work for chump change. It used to be normal for workers to refuse jobs that were abusive or under-paid. They don't do so anymore.

The heck they don't! You seem to think that people simply boycotting such jobs will raise wages. Let me tell you what REALLY happens! See if this sounds familiar!

1. Company offers wage.
2. Workers accept.
3. Company grows.
4. Workers annoyed at lack of wages, unionize, and fight for wages.
5. Company raises prices.
6. Company tries to cut costs.
7. Company manufactures in lower cost area, lowers quality, etc....
8. Company hires workers from lower cost area and/or lays off and closes stores.
9. Company closes, if they can not make a certain amount over ALL costs.

Yep, it doesn't work quite as smoothly as you indicate.

They go to work every day and bitch instead of just laughing that the PR manager when they describe the job and pay. I still just walk out laughing with a hearty "no thanks". If everyone else did.......things would change. CEO's would have to give up just a tad of their enormous salaries to pay workers who refused to be taken advantage of. THAT is more free market than you'll ever see ever happen again because our people are now too stupid to understand the boycott system at either the employee or consumer end.

MAN, I WISH I had an answer. Ironically you may agree with me that the best way would be to reduce regulations and taxes, and bring back a currency backed by something that had universal value and was not corruptible. Did you know that one of the things NERO did to hurt rome was that he "clipped currency"? Many may not know the term. Most currency in the US, and other countries, has some decoration on the edges of the coin. Like the serrations on the edge of US quarters. That isn't all decorative. It is a throwback to when the currency had REAL value because of what it was made with. People would shave material off the edges because they could sell it and get MORE money, in addition to the face value, and that was called clipping. Of course, with paper, it is easier for the government to do the same thing, and THEN we just call it inflation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Method...oin_debasement

Steve

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agc

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Zodiax

Hello guys,

I was browsing through all of the jobs on craigslist and I see a lot of jobs paying $10-15 an hour requiring a bachelors degree.

Do they really think someone with that level of education would work for close to minimum wage?

Never understood.

If you spent $100k getting a bachelor's degree in basket weaving and comparative colors, and are now upset because you are finding only $10/hr jobs, you have mostly yourself to blame. After all, you had options. You could have majored in math. Or business. Or gone for a $30k degree.

You are worth what you can negotiate for in the open market. Sometimes, its a buyers market. Sometimes its a sellers market. Sometimes you can make more money going solo (entrepreneur). Sometimes it pays better to be an employee and let someone else take all the financial risk.

The fact the someone is offering $10 to $15 for college grads doesn't surprise me at all. But I bet they aren't getting the cream of the college crop, and they aren't getting technical degrees.

10 (ish) years ago I had a loft in Brooklyn (my own) and the neighbors, who were all animators and artists, many working for MTV on the Daria show, were living 5 to 8 up in their loft. At the parties, they were the cool kids with the cool jobs. Cool. But the problem with the cool jobs is that EVERYBODY wants them, and TONS of people are capable of doing them, so nobody has to pay much for them. Don't like minimum wage? Quit. There's about 60 trust find kids right behind you waiting to take your place.

Want to make money? Take the crappy, hard jobs that other people don't want and/or can't do. And hopefully, with a little foresight, you'll get the right degree for that, and not some fru fru art or literature or polsci degree.

Sorry if I sound harsh, but the real world doesn't work the way we wish it did. It works the way it really works. And one would be well served to act accordingly.

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AprilCT

9 years ago

It's a shame, but everyone has to start somewhere and get experience. Those wages are definitely taking advantage of people.

If a grad can't find a proper job and wants to hold out, there are waiter's jobs that will pay more. It's very unfortunate, but grads often have to move way out of their home area to get something decent. I can think of about 6 of my older son's friends right off the bat that had to do that. I'm so hoping that doesn't happen to my younger kid.

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seasoned

9 years ago

Originally Posted by AprilCT

It's a shame, but everyone has to start somewhere and get experience. Those wages are definitely taking advantage of people.

If a grad can't find a proper job and wants to hold out, there are waiter's jobs that will pay more. It's very unfortunate, but grads often have to move way out of their home area to get something decent. I can think of about 6 of my older son's friends right off the bat that had to do that. I'm so hoping that doesn't happen to my younger kid.

MANY areas do ******NOT****** have "STEM" jobs! And NOW, some are talking about :"steAm". The FACT is that A has NEVER generally paid that well, and such jobs are even LESS likely to be in your area. One of the biggest companies in the US, and perhaps the world, that deals with A, for example is disney. SURPRISE! DISNEY is one of the supporters of the "steAm" concept. If you are in NY, Maine, Texas, etc, they may not have jobs for you there. And YEAH, some get paid an INCREDIBLE amount. MOST don't though.

And MORE AND MORE companies dealing with STEM, or STEAM, for that matter, demand that you live in their area, or an area that they are highly likely to place you. I PERSONALLY was affected by no less than 3 such places late last year.

So the need for your kids to move depends on luck, career choice, and starting location.

BTW for those that don't know:

Science,
Technology,
Engineering
Art
Math

So let's say you want to work at WALMART! They ARE all over, RIGHT? WRONG! When it comes to STEAM, they may only be in a few places,

Steve

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laurencewins

9 years ago

I used to manage a large call centre and I had lots of staff with various qualifications. One man had 3 Master's degrees. I eventually promoted him but the pay wasn't great considering his qualifications. It's not always possible to get the dream job, even if you have a qualification and people who believe they shouldn't work for low income can end up earning nothing at all.

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kyleheier

9 years ago

Become an entrepreneur. Put your education to work instead of relying on it to land you a job. Entitlement will get you nowhere.

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David Beroff

9 years ago

Originally Posted by kyleheier

Become an entrepreneur. Put your education to work instead of relying on it to land you a job. Entitlement will get you nowhere.

Actually, while I won't actively dissuade anyone personally from starting their own business, I'm not so sure that it should be posed as a path for everyone. It's easy for those who have already made it this way to think that anyone can, but I respectfully disagree. (I do agree with your latter two sentences.)

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kyleheier

9 years ago

Originally Posted by David Beroff

Actually, while I won't actively dissuade anyone personally from starting their own business, I'm not so sure that it should be posed as a path for everyone. It's easy for those who have already made it this way to think that anyone can, but I respectfully disagree. (I do agree with your latter two sentences.)

That's fair

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hardraysnight

9 years ago

just proves there are two kinds of graduates

workers and whingers

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Jason Kanigan

9 years ago

If you want to find work you truly enjoy, you need to stand out. Resume and cover letter are outdated job hunting technology.

I've had custom jobs created four times for me (never again; I never wish to put my income at the whim of another person ever again). The process for doing so literally cuts years off doing the "slog work" everyone thinks you have to do to "pay your dues."

Yes, you have to have a competency. Yes, you have to know what you want.

Here's a radio interview I did last year on unorthodox job hunting:

Jason Kanigan on WGCH 1490 AM - YouTube

If you want my Kindle book on the topic, PM me and I'll give it to you for the asking.

A couple Facebook friends have already quietly used these methods to get themselves jobs they at first didn't think were in their reach.

It's easy to sit and whine as you look at Want Ads to chase. That's the absolute worst form of looking for work. You're in high competition, using old technology. It's slow. The HR people deciding which resumes to forward on to management don't care about you or what makes you special.

There is a much better, faster way. My fastest turnaround was four days...four days from being released from one job and being hired at a custom-made role which the manager who hired me had NOT been thinking about...no job had been advertised...and the scary thing was, the salary was EXACTLY the same as what I had been earning the previous week at the last job. It was a funny number, too. Entirely self-created. What you think you see going on out there is not what is actually going on. Jobs are NOT scarce. What's really going on is people suck at standing out to employers and showing them how they create value. Get good at this and you can write your own ticket.

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HeySal

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Jason Kanigan

If you want to find work you truly enjoy, you need to stand out. Resume and cover letter are outdated job hunting technology.

I've had custom jobs created four times for me (never again; I never wish to put my income at the whim of another person ever again). The process for doing so literally cuts years off doing the "slog work" everyone thinks you have to do to "pay your dues."

Yes, you have to have a competency. Yes, you have to know what you want.

Here's a radio interview I did last year on unorthodox job hunting:

Jason Kanigan on WGCH 1490 AM - YouTube

If you want my Kindle book on the topic, PM me and I'll give it to you for the asking.

A couple Facebook friends have already quietly used these methods to get themselves jobs they at first didn't think were in their reach.

It's easy to sit and whine as you look at Want Ads to chase. That's the absolute worst form of looking for work. You're in high competition, using old technology. It's slow. The HR people deciding which resumes to forward on to management don't care about you or what makes you special.

T

I had a job custom designed for me once. They ended up playing a game that made me the responsible party if they got caught for tax avoidance. They knew I was smart enough to do what I was doing, but didn't count on me knowing what they were using me for on their end. Surprised em when they found out I did.

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GforceSage

9 years ago

You will find there are a lot jobs offered on Craigs List by people that are portraying themselves as a business, but have NO business doing so. Lots of "Jobs" on there saying Commission only or minimum wage during training/intership. You need to get a real internship with a real company or network your friends, family, and acquaintances. Corporate America is becoming less and less desirable each year.

You should look with an entrepreneurial mind. You can create a job for yourself using the Net or solving a need for an existing business. People with most degrees face the same problem. Finding a job can seem like playing the lottery sometimes unless you can get some inside info that you can act on. You will find that a huge amount of job offers either lie about what they are offering once you speak with them or are willing to take most any fool who will work on the cheap. A successful company that wants to be taken seriously will pay more to avoid the the turnover that occurs with low wages. See if your college has job leads for graduates. Most do and the wages are not minimum wage, though you may have to get a roommate to survive until you prove your value because no one starts at the top. Professional minimum wage is $15 per hour or $25,000 per year if salaried in big cities.

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Zodiax

9 years ago

Well I'm not a college grad, but I was bickering for them.

My job interviews go like this:

1.Did you graduate highschool? Yes

2.Can you carry some stuff? Yes

3.Can you start like tomorrow? Yes

Boom.

Sometimes being uneducated on paper makes it EASIER to get work.

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agc

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Zodiax

Well I'm not a college grad, but I was bickering for them.

My job interviews go like this:

1.Did you graduate highschool? Yes

2.Can you carry some stuff? Yes

3.Can you start like tomorrow? Yes

Boom.

Sometimes being uneducated on paper makes it EASIER to get work.

I someone doesn't know enough to make a separate resume for each kind of job they might be inclined to seek, one has to wonder what they actually learned in college.

College degree fru fru job: $10/hr
Hard work building things: $20/hr

And don't put your BSA on your resume for the concrete finishing jobs.

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Kay King

9 years ago

I'm not ... but I was bickering for them.

So - blowing smoke?

Today, it's not enough to have a degree in "something" - you need a degree that's in demand in a field where there are jobs. It's not enough to 'graduate' - you need to excel in your field and be near the top of the class.

My Grandson graduated high school with highest honors last month. Nerd? Nope - he also was MVP hockey, MVP baseball, sportsmanship award, "Braves" award for an anti-bully program he started...PLUS scholarships and awards for academics. Better, yet, he's a really nice guy and fun to be around. He has truly amazing parents (and he'll be the first to say so).

The kids in his tight group of friends - about 10 of them, male and female - will all major in either finance/economics or science. The goal for ALL of them is to maintain at least a 3.7 GPA through college. They know they need to be at the top of their class to get the jobs they want after graduation.

My Grandson's girlfriend left this morning for the Air Force Academy in Colorado. After almost two years of being a couple, they mutually decided a long distance relationship was not workable so they are "free agents" now. They believe they will be together for life but say that's for later, not for now. How many adults are that smart?

Point is -there are kids like my GS all over this country. We don't hear as much about them because they aren't on the news demanding higher wages - or in mug shots shown after an arrest.

Every one of the kids in this high school class are better with computers than I'll ever be - and not one of them is interest in an "online career". They know the internet will be an integral part of their careers but only as a tool.

Thinking about that makes me wonder if eventually "IMers" will be the trailer park online while the real money goes to companies and people with a wider focus that includes the internet but isn't limited to it.

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agc

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

Today, it's not enough to have a degree in "something" - you need a degree that's in demand in a field where there are jobs. It's not enough to 'graduate' - you need to excel in your field and be near the top of the class.

While I agree in principle, I feel I have to point out the "standard distribution". you know. The Bell Curve. by definition, not everyone can be "near the top of their class". Not even half can ;-). If everyone in this country suddenly started working twice as hard and twice as smartly, then everyone would still be exactly where they are now RELATIVE to everyone else (in their class). Of course they would be way ahead relative to those who slackers who came before, and relative to the rest of the world. And only time will tell if those who come after are slackers, or if they raise the bar yet again.

So while on the one hand, I have no tolerance nor mercy for whining sniveling excuse making people who won't work to get ahead... I also think we have to keep in mind that competitiveness is far more relative than absolute.

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Zodiax

9 years ago

Originally Posted by agc

While I agree in principle, I feel I have to point out the "standard distribution". you know. The Bell Curve. by definition, not everyone can be "near the top of their class". Not even half can ;-). If everyone in this country suddenly started working twice as hard and twice as smartly, then everyone would still be exactly where they are now RELATIVE to everyone else (in their class). Of course they would be way ahead relative to those who slackers who came before, and relative to the rest of the world. And only time will tell if those who come after are slackers, or if they raise the bar yet again.

So while on the one hand, I have no tolerance nor mercy for whining sniveling excuse making people who won't work to get ahead... I also think we have to keep in mind that competitiveness is far more relative than absolute.

Yes, but you are forgetting that people want to take the path of least resistance by nature, and it's because of this that there is a sort of absoluteness in competition.

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seasoned

9 years ago

Originally Posted by agc

While I agree in principle, I feel I have to point out the "standard distribution". you know. The Bell Curve. by definition, not everyone can be "near the top of their class". Not even half can ;-). If everyone in this country suddenly started working twice as hard and twice as smartly, then everyone would still be exactly where they are now RELATIVE to everyone else (in their class). Of course they would be way ahead relative to those who slackers who came before, and relative to the rest of the world. And only time will tell if those who come after are slackers, or if they raise the bar yet again.

So while on the one hand, I have no tolerance nor mercy for whining sniveling excuse making people who won't work to get ahead... I also think we have to keep in mind that competitiveness is far more relative than absolute.

Actually, that isn't true. A LOT of people are paid because people are LAZY, or not diligent. If SOME worked even 20% harder, others would get laid off, and some couldn't work even 10 times as hard and get more money. That danged minimum wage, and other laws of economics get in the way!

If some worked harder, THEY would get paid more, and others would be paid NOTHING!

Steve

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seasoned

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

Thinking about that makes me wonder if eventually "IMers" will be the trailer park online while the real money goes to companies and people with a wider focus that includes the internet but isn't limited to it.

"IM'r" only make money buy using a shotgun approach to get a portion of what someone else has made. MAYBE your grandson and the others will be making the larger portion of that money.

HECK, the most expensive banner ad I heard of cost almost $100. That SOUNDS like a LOT! STILL, the lawyers, paying for the ad, probably made that for about 0.5/hours work on a normal project, and had the $100 paying for a few seconds work. If the return were TOO good for the IM'rs, the lawyers would simply stop advertising.

Steve

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Joe Mobley

9 years ago

Kay,

I'm totally not surprised.

Joe Mobley

Originally Posted by Kay King

So - blowing smoke?

My Grandson graduated high school with highest honors last month. Nerd? Nope - he also was MVP hockey, MVP baseball, sportsmanship award, "Braves" award for an anti-bully program he started...PLUS scholarships and awards for academics. Better, yet, he's a really nice guy and fun to be around. He has truly amazing parents (and he'll be the first to say so).

The kids in his tight group of friends - about 10 of them, male and female - will all major in either finance/economics or science. The goal for ALL of them is to maintain at least a 3.7 GPA through college. They know they need to be at the top of their class to get the jobs they want after graduation.

My Grandson's girlfriend left this morning for the Air Force Academy in Colorado. After almost two years of being a couple, they mutually decided a long distance relationship was not workable so they are "free agents" now. They believe they will be together for life but say that's for later, not for now. How many adults are that smart?

Point is -there are kids like my GS all over this country. We don't hear as much about them because they aren't on the news demanding higher wages - or in mug shots shown after an arrest.

Every one of the kids in this high school class are better with computers than I'll ever be - and not one of them is interest in an "online career". They know the internet will be an integral part of their careers but only as a tool.

Thinking about that makes me wonder if eventually "IMers" will be the trailer park online while the real money goes to companies and people with a wider focus that includes the internet but isn't limited to it.

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Zodiax

9 years ago

Well IM'ers are entrepreneurial by nature,

So they will always find a new business opportunity, even if it isn't online.

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Insult to college grads.

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