Upwork suspending account halfway through a project

9 years ago

They did ask you before. They let you know when you're signing up for the account what all you're going to have to provide. They require a W9 too.

I'd be figuring out how to verify my ID with them, because it is relevant to this thread. It's the only way you're getting your money back -- unless PayPal will let you file a claim.

Best of luck with it.

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Nguyen2431

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Synnuh

They did ask you before. They let you know when you're signing up for the account what all you're going to have to provide. They require a W9 too.

I'd be figuring out how to verify my ID with them, because it is relevant to this thread. It's the only way you're getting your money back -- unless PayPal will let you file a claim.

Best of luck with it.

Why didn't they require me to enter it before they allowed me to deposit $250?

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Synnuh

9 years ago

Put on your tin foil hat, but I'm going to go out on a limb and say because it works for them to keep deposits such as yours. They're not the first company to do it.

Malevolence aside, they expect you'll read the instructions and follow them, considering you're spending legit money.

I'd be getting in touch with PayPal. From my experiences (companies have done the same to me, twice) you don't get the money back, and trying is an exercise in futility.

Not sure if Upwork does automatic audits where they mass release funds back into the accounts they came from, but in today's landscape I don't think that's really a viable option to count on. I'd expect them to have clauses in their terms that prevent it from happening.

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Nguyen2431

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Synnuh

Put on your tin foil hat, but I'm going to go out on a limb and say because it works for them to keep deposits such as yours. They're not the first company to do it.

Malevolence aside, they expect you'll read the instructions and follow them, considering you're spending legit money.

I'd be getting in touch with PayPal. From my experiences (companies have done the same to me, twice) you don't get the money back, and trying is an exercise in futility.

Not sure if Upwork does automatic audits where they mass release funds back into the accounts they came from, but in today's landscape I don't think that's really a viable option to count on. I'd except them to have clauses in their terms that

I understand it is my fault. Although that is a scummy thing for them to do.

I also would like to add that coincidentally, they have not replied to my old support tickets, and the website is no longer loading for me.

Thanks for your help, I would 'thank' you if I could

Thanks

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Synnuh

9 years ago

Notwithstanding any other provision of this Agreement or the Escrow Instructions, and except as prohibited by applicable law, if we determine in our sole discretion that you have violated the conditions and restrictions of the Site or this Agreement, EEC may hold the disbursement of the Freelancer Fees. Additionally, EEC may also hold the disbursement of the Freelancer Fees if: (a) we require additional information, such as Freelancer's tax information, government-issued identification, address, or date of birth; (b) we have reason to believe the Freelancer Fees may be subject to dispute or chargeback; (c) we suspect fraud; (d) we believe there are reasonable grounds for insecurity with respect to the performance of obligations under a Service Contract, this Agreement, or other Terms of Service; (e) we deem necessary in connection with any investigation; or (f) required by applicable law.

In cases of fraud, abuse, or violation of this Agreement, Upwork reserves the right to revoke any payments and instruct EEC to (and EEC will have the right to) hold and/or reclaim from EEC all Freelancer Fees due to Freelancer (not just the Freelancer Fees from the Service Contract(s) under investigation). In addition, we reserve the right to seek reimbursement from you, and you will reimburse us, if we suspect fraud or criminal activity associated with your payment, withdrawal, or Engagement; if we discover erroneous or duplicate transactions; or if we have supplied our services in accordance with this Agreement yet we receive any chargeback from the credit card company, bank, PayPal or other payment method as used by you, or as used by your Client if you are a Freelancer. You agree that we have the right to obtain such reimbursement by instructing EEC to (and EEC will have the right to) charge an applicable Escrow Account, and any other accounts you hold with us, offsetting any amounts determined to be owing, deducting amounts from future payments or withdrawals, charging your credit card, or obtaining reimbursement from you by any other lawful means. Failure to pay for reimbursements of chargebacks is cause for termination of the applicable Escrow Account.

Client acknowledges and agrees that EEC will charge Client's designated Payment Method for the Freelancer Fees: (a) for Fixed Price Contracts, upon Client's acceptance of the Freelancer Services, and (b) for Hourly Rate Contacts, on the Monday after the week in which work was performed. Therefore, and in consideration of the Site Services provided by Upwork and the escrow services provided by EEC, Client agrees that once EEC charges Client's designated Payment Method for the Freelancer Fees as provided in this Agreement, the charge is non-refundable, except as otherwise required by applicable law. Client also acknowledges and agrees that this Agreement provides a dispute resolution process as a way for Client resolve disputes. To the extent permitted by applicable law, Client therefore agrees not to ask its credit card company, bank, or other Payment Method provider to charge back any Freelancer Fees or other Fees charged pursuant to this Agreement for any reason. A chargeback in breach of the foregoing obligation is a material breach of this Agreement. If Client initiates a chargeback in violation of this Agreement, Client agrees that Upwork or EEC may dispute or appeal the chargeback and institute collection action against Client.

From their ToS. You not validating the account shows them that it's fraudulent and gives them complete access to the funds.

I completely agree about it being a scumbag move. PayPal just took $4,100 from me because I had an account in my daughter's name. She's under 18 -- not a damn thing I can do about it. I couldn't verify the account, so they kept it.

I'd be filing a complaint with PayPal, if you can. Not sure how much help it's going to be at this point, though.

Thanks
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Kay King

9 years ago

There is nothing odd or scumbag about it - they ask for ID when you sign up. You can't provide ID - and THAT is suspect. You think it's not important - but Upwork doesn't agree. They own the site.

You come to Freelancer to complain about Upwork...

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Nguyen2431

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

There is nothing odd or scumbag about it - they ask for ID when you sign up. You can't provide ID - and THAT is suspect. You think it's not important - but Upwork doesn't agree. They own the site.

You come to Freelancer to complain about Upwork...

I understand that it is my fault, but don't you think that if they were going to require my ID in order to complete the project than they should have asked before allowing me to successfully deposit $250?

And I cannot verify my ID at the time because of personal issues that I currently have no control over. I am not using stolen accounts for Upwork, lol.

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sbucciarel

Banned 9 years ago

Well, there's absolutely nothing that members of Warrior Forum can do for you. Seems to me that it clearly indicates in the tos that they require an ID/identity verification and you are trying to get around that.

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Kay King 9 years ago

'd be filing a complaint with PayPal,

The OP is paying by milestones - so the money has been paid to the provider if that's the case.

I would think the person doing the work would also be pressuring upwork to complete the project.

Some people take a chance with accts on Paypal as mentioned above and on freelance sites and other sites. The requirements are clear but you can get by without ID as long as you aren't asked for it. It's a risk you take.
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yukon

Banned 9 years ago

I'm sure there's a way to contact the service provider outside of Upchuck to get the job finished.

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Nguyen2431

9 years ago

Originally Posted by yukon

I'm sure there's a way to contact the service provider outside of Upchuck to get the job finished.

Haha. Yes, that is what I am currently doing. It is unfortunate Upchuck is missing out on the rest of my money! (even though it's nothing to them)

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sbucciarel

Banned 9 years ago

Originally Posted by Nguyen2431

Haha. Yes, that is what I am currently doing. It is unfortunate Upchuck is missing out on the rest of my money! (even though it's nothing to them)

If the vendor violates UpWork's tos, they will be suspended. If I were making money from the site, I would not give you my contact info, as that is against the tos, and I wouldn't let someone else not complying with tos cut me off from my income. It is not their fault that you cannot provide the appropriate ID.

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Nguyen2431

9 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

If the vendor violates UpWork's tos, they will be suspended. If I were making money from the site, I would not give you my contact info, as that is against the tos, and I wouldn't let someone else not complying with tos cut me off from my income. It is not their fault that you cannot provide the appropriate ID.

Well luckily the guy I am working with is understanding and trustworthy so he is fine with making $350 outside of Upwork, rather than making nothing at all. Not everyone must be so meticulous.

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sbucciarel

Banned 9 years ago

Originally Posted by Nguyen2431

Well luckily the guy I am working with is understanding and trustworthy so he is fine with making $350 outside of Upwork, rather than making nothing at all. Not everyone must be so meticulous.

Well, that's your problem ... not mine and it may become the vendor's problem because Elance/Upwork has ways to find out and prevent people from doing that. If that's the last job he wants to do on Upwork, no problem for him, but I wouldn't do it.

This is your problem. You wonder why they ask in mid project for your ID ... I wonder why you can't provide it. I can provide my ID at the beginning, middle or end of a project. I wouldn't want to work with someone who couldn't if I decided my project should have that kind of protection.

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Nguyen2431

9 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

Well, that's your problem ... not mine and it may become the vendor's problem because Elance/Upwork has ways to find out and prevent people from doing that. If that's the last job he wants to do on Upwork, no problem for him, but I wouldn't do it.

This is your problem. You wonder why they ask in mid project for your ID ... I wonder why you can't provide it. I can provide my ID at the beginning, middle or end of a project. I wouldn't want to work with someone who couldn't if I decided my project should have that kind of protection.

I wonder why they charge me mid project, you wonder why I can't provide my ID, I wonder why they charge me mid project, you wonder why I can't provide my ID, either way there must be an answer to both questions, and do you really care about why I can't provide my ID?

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Cali16

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Nguyen2431

I wonder why they charge me mid project, you wonder why I can't provide my ID... either way there must be an answer to both questions, and do you really care about why I can't provide my ID?

Only UpWork has the answer to the first question (and no one posting here works for them, so we can't answer it), and only you have the answer to the second one.

Even if UpWork explains why they decided to require ID verification mid-project, that won't solve the problem, will it? I mean, what are you going to do at this point - argue with them about their "stupid policy"? They're still probably going to want you to verify your ID before reactivating your account and allowing you to continue with the project.

You can continue to beat this dead horse (and play the victim) or you can find a way to verify your ID. Or you can let it go and consider it a lesson learned. Those are your options. And I think it's safe to say the first option isn't going to get you anywhere.

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Nguyen2431

9 years ago

The problem here isn't the fact that I can't currently verify my ID, I thought I had made that clear. It is that Upwork had accepted $250 from me without ID verification, and then asks me for my ID, while I still had $100 remaining unpaid, thus leaving me $250 in a hole, and unable to receive the service it has been put towards. Along with the fact that they (still) haven't responded to my support ticket, at all.

I understand it's my fault, but I don't think it is at all cool for a company to gladly take my $250, then screw me over so I lose my money and service I had been paying for.

I don't typically read the TOS of every program I use, because we all know that most people don't.(about 93% don't - theguardian) So if you expected me to be the 7%, i'm sorry. But this will still remain a problem for the 93%, so lets not focus on that.

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Cali16

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Nguyen2431

... then screw me over so I lose my money and service I had been paying for.

I don't typically read the TOS of every program I use...

I'm sorry, but how, exactly, is UpWork "screwing you over"???

From reading this thread, the fault seems to be entirely yours, not theirs:

1) You're the one who didn't bother to read the TOS.

2) You could easily resolve this by verifying your ID, which you say you can't do... Most people can readily verify their ID, the fact that you can't (or won't, for whatever reason) is your problem, not UpWork's. It's not as if they're asking for your firstborn child...

Stop blaming UpWork for a problem you created for yourself. And next time, don't be part of the alleged 93% - or use that as an excuse. I don't mean to sound harshly unsympathetic, but trying to blame UpWork for this is ridiculous.

Put yourself in their shoes for a moment. You've got a customer who didn't bother to read your TOS before using your service, and who won't verify his ID. Would you be sympathetic or suspect? Just trying to put this into perspective here.

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Nguyen2431

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Cali16

I'm sorry, but how, exactly, is UpWork "screwing you over"???

From reading this thread, the fault seems to be entirely yours, not theirs:

1) You're the one who didn't bother to read the TOS.

2) You could easily resolve this by verifying your ID, which you say you can't do... Most people can readily verify their ID, the fact that you can't (or won't, for whatever reason) is your problem, not UpWork's. It's not as if they're asking for your firstborn child...

Stop blaming UpWork for a problem you created for yourself. And next time, don't be part of the alleged 93% - or use that as an excuse. I don't mean to sound harshly unsympathetic, but trying to blame UpWork for this is ridiculous.

Put yourself in their shoes for a moment. You've got a customer who didn't bother to read your TOS before using your service, and who won't verify his ID. Would you be sympathetic or suspect? Just trying to put this into perspective here.

I am selling a car
I give the buyer a 8 page document, in the middle it says "I may ask you if you have a red house, in order to buy it".
The buyer happens to disregard the document.
Three payments later, I have $3,000, and the buyer must pay $1,000 more to receive the car.
I ask them if they have a red house, they say no, so I keep the money and the car.

You see the problem? They are asking me for my ID after already allowing me to give them $250. Please come up with a reason as to why I was able to pay $250 and then only after that, be asked to verify my ID to proceed.

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Kay King 9 years ago

If a buyer "disregards" a document - that's his problem. Most of the time if you fail to read the terms of a service it doesn't hurt anything - but sometimes, it does.

I don't think you realize how strange it is for someone to say "I don't have any identification." Don't know where you live but for most of us that makes no sense at all. So many daily things we do or buy or use require us to present an ID.
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laurencewins

9 years ago

You say you don't ready TOS because 93% of others don't... If we were to follow that logic, 93 people would jump off a cliff without asking why and you would be one of them.

As a "buyer" of services, it's your responsibility to ensure you comply with the requirements of such sites.
They won't hold your hand and apologise to you because they have taken action based on something you did not bother doing.

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Nguyen2431

9 years ago

Originally Posted by laurencewins

You say you don't ready TOS because 93% of others don't... If we were to follow that logic, 93 people would jump off a cliff without asking why and you would be one of them.

As a "buyer" of services, it's your responsibility to ensure you comply with the requirements of such sites.
They won't hold your hand and apologise to you because they have taken action based on something you did not bother doing.

I don't read the TOS because I believe it is mostly common sense statements to protect the company, not "because 93% of others don't" I never said that.

I have transacted thousands of dollars through many various programs and websites without reading the TOS, no problem at all. Time is money, time saved! Then after all of these years, there is finally a problem. This $350 dispute is nothing compared to all of the successful funds I have worked with. Upwork is right, it's not their fault, (apparently I must continue to stress) but they are the one service I have finally had troubles with.

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Synnuh

9 years ago

If you say that you are entitled to all of the money should they not be able to verify they own a red house, yes, you are entitled to the money. You would be the asshole in that situation, not Upwork.

It's the same thing. You had to provide it up front when you made the account and they give you time to do it since most people aren't going to have copies of their ID on hand, or a copier to make one.

Their terms of service is by design. I guarantee they're paying an attorney big bucks to make sure things just like what happened to you are OK. It is what it is.

So, what are the personal reasons you can't submit a valid ID for verification? That's the million dollar question here, everything else is moot.

If you can't answer that with a truly legit answer, kiss the money goodbye. Otherwise, get on the phone with Upwork.

Verify it, or give up the fight and accept the money is a loss.

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Mark Singletary

9 years ago

Just for the record, many companies including PayPal and Clickbank, require minimal information to start but then later ID or other requirements come into play.

For example, a company may not need your taxpayer identification until you actually make some money or pass a certain threshold. Once you get to the threshold, they may withhold your money until you provide the required documentation so they can handle tax issues or whatever.

I'm not defending UpWork. I'm just pointing out that it happens in a lot of places.

Mark

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Floyd Fisher

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Nguyen2431

I have recently used Upwork for my first time, in order to receive an app development service. The service would cost $350 in total, split up into 5 unequal payments. So far, I have payed $250 out of my PayPal, which is now out of my hands. I have $100 remaining to pay in order to receive the service, however Upwork has suspended my account "temporarily" and has limited payments. Basically the only limit is that I am not allowed to deposit any more funds.

Upwork is telling me I must provide a picture ID, and complete other various verification processes. I cannot complete these processes at the time, or for a while, for reasons unimportant to this thread. I know it is inconvenient to Upwork that I cannot verify my ID for them, but why didn't they ask me before I had payed $250? Rather than cutting me off in the middle of a project!

This leaves me in a predicament, I cannot receive my service because I have $100 left to pay, which I cannot pay, and I can't just abandon the project, because I have $250 in Upwork.

Upwork's support is being very unhelpful, so I came here. I know this isn't an Upwork forum, and you cannot directly solve problems within the site, but I am just asking if there is any possible help I can receive from a community that actually cares. If not, I appreciate your time.

If it's that important to you, then see about arranging payment through other means.

Otherwise, the only thing you can do is abandon ship.