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I was thinking of this much of today. And another thread, the one by Steve Wagenheim made me decide to post this. So...blame Steve.

A few months ago, I was thinking about my best friend. He was a man twenty years older than I am, and about the kindest man I've ever known. He was a mentor to me when I was selling vacuum cleaners, and we spent a lot of time, visiting each other's stores. (We both owned vacuum cleaner stores. I still do)

I hadn't heard from him for a few years, and mentioned it to my son, who was visiting me.
My son looked up my friend's name on Google and found that he had died a few months ago. I was unaware of the death, and hadn't attended the funeral.

I had a childhood friend, who started visiting me semi regularly, several years ago. I had done something with my life, and he hadn't. In his 50s, he still rented, had an old car, constantly was scrounging for money, and "borrowed" money from me, on every visit. We were friends as kids, but he turned into a small time thief, stealing from me and others I knew. Every time I saw him, it was another scam he wanted money for, some other emergency that needed taken care of. He knew I studied Kung Fu for years, and when we went out for a beer, he would try to pick a fight, so I would come to rescue his worthless self. One night I warned him that if he picked a fight, I'd watch the guy beat him to a pulp, and not interfere. And I meant it. But I'd known him all my life, so I'd always forgive him, for any transgressions. I paid some of his gambling debts, even after I caught him stealing from my cash register.

About 3 years ago, he showed up, and wanted to stay at my home . My wife didn't like him (for good reason), and so I told him No. Of course, he really needed money, so I gave him money for a hotel room, food, and a little to get back on his feet. He spent the next several days, blowing the money on booze and cocaine.....without my knowledge.

He called and told me that it was my fault, because I didn't take him in. I had enough, and told him to never call me again. He didn't. He was about 57 years old at the time.

I decided to Google his name to see if he ever went to prison. or was killed. Yup, he killed himself a few years ago. a few months after I told him to go away.

Now, here's why I brought these two stories up; The first story is about a dear friend, that I truly loved. And the second story is about a man with virtually no redeeming qualities. In fact, the last several years...I didn't even like him. I just felt obligated to be nice to him, because we were friends in school.

My beloved mentor friend? I miss him less than my worthless old friend. In fact, his death doesn't bother me much at all. Sure, a tear was shed when I found out...but that was about it. He led a very full rewarding life. He was loved by many, and had more personal integrity than any other man I've ever met. He was like a father to me.

But to me, his passing was just the natural order of things. I think he was 80, when he passed away.

My other "friend" just made me angry. And it angers me every time I think about it. I don't blame myself, I blame him. And I think about all the people he hurt along the way. His suicide didn't shock me. I imagine at the end, he was just blaming others for his trouble, like always.

Still, it bothers me. I think of it a little every day. Maybe what bothers me the most, is that I know if he called me a week after I hung up on him...he would have told me a joke, and all would have been forgiven...and he'd still be scamming, and leeching off old friends.

Weird.
  • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
    A most surprising story, perhaps the lovable rouge factor about him enthralled you (and his humour) and it represented a little danger, unpredictability and intrigue, we all like that now and again. Plus the nostalgia of an early part of your life. How was he back then one wonders? Did you feel like you owed him one for something.He must have been a character, a lot of fun

    Yep the other guy was great, stable and helpful to you early on but did not need any help from you or feel the need to seek you out to inform you of his pending demise.

    .My fathers life long friend distanced himself from my dad when he found out he had cancer and a few months to live. He did not want him to come to the funeral. People can be strange but perhaps he just wanted to be remembered as he was, just six months earlier he had visited and was fit and healthy.
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    Well, it WOULD have been nice if you had more contact with your mentor, etc.... Maybe things would have been better all around. At this point, there is no reason to kick yourself for it, and he would certainly have forgiven you for not attending the funeral, that you knew nothing about.

    The SECOND guy is the typical conman. Although not often discussed, the first people they con are often friends and relatives. Try to forget the "good" times, etc... It is just a way to get you to forgive and/or forget, so you will trust them again.

    Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author AprilCT
      It seems there are all kinds of people in the world, Claude, and I don't see it changing. Just within the last three years, there has been a tremendous number of people, family, friends, former co-workers, etc. that have passed away. Some old age, couple from surgery, cancer, tragedy, a few suicides, and at least one con man among them.

      It does seem the older you get, the more people you know that pass away. It's just a fact of life, except in my case, it's hard to believe just how many.

      I couldn't even begin to guess correctly their thought processes that left your former friend and the one con man I knew in such dire straits. I did not attend the con man's funeral, which was local. You can't help people who refuse to help themselves, even with sound advice and a hand out.

      Perhaps a professional could help, but I'm not trained for that. People who steal from you need to be forgiven, their crimes against you should not be carried with you or burden you in your life. People who are stolen from often need to just cut off any relationship before they aid and abet the con's lifestyle and, of course, to protect themselves and their own family from any further harm. Your con friend blaming your refusal to stay with you on what he did just proved he was still attempting to con you.
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      • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
        Originally Posted by AprilCT View Post

        Perhaps a professional could help, but I'm not trained for that.
        No need for professional help. Maybe I gave the wrong impression.
        My mentor friend enriched my life. My conman friend did not. I'm not an emotional person.

        The fact that I think about my conman friend, with any emotion at all, is what's weird to me. Probably the fact that we were friends as young kids.

        Thanks for the responses. It was just something I was pondering.
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        • Profile picture of the author Jason Kanigan
          Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

          No need for professional help. Maybe I gave the wrong impression.
          My mentor friend enriched my life. My conman friend did not. I'm not an emotional person.

          The fact that I think about my conman friend, with any emotion at all, is what's weird to me. Probably the fact that we were friends as young kids.

          Thanks for the responses. It was just something I was pondering.
          I do believe this "shared youngster experience" is important.

          There are a handful, and I mean 5 or less, people who I remember from my childhood. People I've known since kindergarten or before.

          I am connected with a couple through social media, and they don't post much.

          They have no idea, but I would do just about ANYTHING for these few people, no questions asked.

          And it comes straight from that long ago connection, which is almost random and hasn't been supported by anything much in the past 20 years.

          It IS weird. But it's there.
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        • Profile picture of the author discrat
          Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

          No need for professional help. Maybe I gave the wrong impression.
          My mentor friend enriched my life. My conman friend did not. I'm not an emotional person.

          The fact that I think about my conman friend, with any emotion at all, is what's weird to me. Probably the fact that we were friends as young kids.

          Thanks for the responses. It was just something I was pondering.
          I think you are "deeper" than you give yourself credit for .

          This incident alone suggest you are more sensitive than about 99% of the people in this World !

          And that is nothing to be ashamed about.

          Actually, It is something to be proud of !!

          People who are able to have empathy with others and feel emotions towards others and to really bask in that and really truly connect with the human soul and the human experience...well thats what makes
          Life tolerable , imo
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          • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
            Originally Posted by discrat View Post

            I think you are "deeper" than you give yourself credit for .

            This incident alone suggest you are more sensitive than about 99% of the people in this World !
            Certainly not more sensitive. Maybe a little more introspective.

            Thank you for the compliment. .

            When I first read about my old childhood friend's death, my very first thought was, "What a Moron. What a colossal waste of a life". A little later, I was pondering why I had that reaction at all. It was really the fact that I was angry, that interested me...more than the fact that he had died.

            I was trying to figure out why his death affected me more than that of a very dear friend.

            It was the fact that he was woven into the fabric of my life, and was now gone. I had the same effect when my ex-wife died (we were divorced for 25 years). We literally hated each other, and I didn't attend the funeral. But it saddened me that she was gone...and I was used to hating the sound of her voice. And now, that was gone.

            But my mentor friend? My first thought on learning of his death was, "What a magnificent long life you led. Well done, my friend". Maybe because all the positive effects he had on my life are still with me. And every time I think about him, I smile.
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  • Profile picture of the author Tom Addams
    My advice, Claude: learn to let it bother you less and less until it only bothers you a little. Since it always will.

    Some people are possessed of a self-destructive nature (for plenty of insight, read the Mayor of Casterbridge, Thomas Hardy, if you haven't already) and no matter what others do for them, they will almost always self-destruct in the end. I expect Ernest Hemingway knew a Claude or two. In the end, the gun barrels won. And they have a habit of doing so, and for good reason. The Claudes can make things better for a little while. A little while. But self-destruction never lays dormant for long. The thing is, you see, gun barrels can make things better for ever.

    What you did for your old friend was all you could do, all anyone could do. While he was around, you made things better. We all only have a short time on the planet. And every hour of every day is filled with good and bad. Without you, your friend would have had less good. But for some people, and it sounds like this applies to your friend, a destructive end is a destination set in stone. Keep in mind my first bit of advice, if you like, and if you do, keep in mind that because of you he had more good than bad.

    Some people literally cannot be saved. They can only be given some good while they're around.

    - Tom
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  • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
    I don't have time for an elaborate response, so I'll be short and sweet: I think the difference is one man led a rich, full life. The other squandered his. It's easier to accept death when we feel as though accomplishments were vast. Conversely, it can be maddening to watch someone squander their life as we recognize life as our most cherished asset.

    This can probably be boiled down to transference. We see ourselves in our dead. We question our own mortality when others die. We see ourselves in their dead faces and question whether we would be happy if their final stories were our own.
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    • Profile picture of the author discrat
      I just dread the day when one of you dies and leaves the other one hanging on his own to grudgingly wade thru this hell hole we call Life

      In some warped and convoluted manner, you two have fostered and supplied deep seated meaning to each others' Lives and this should not be discounted in the least

      A sad day indeed....when there will be a 'Riffle-less' life for a Whitacre Or a 'Whitacre-less' life for a Riffle
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    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      Originally Posted by Dan Riffle View Post

      I don't have time for an elaborate response, so I'll be short and sweet: I think the difference is one man lead a rich, full life. The other squandered his. It's easier to accept death when we feel as though accomplishments were vast. Conversely, it can be maddening to watch someone squander their life as we recognize life as our most cherished asset.
      Very insightful, and true.




      Originally Posted by Dan Riffle View Post

      This can probably be boiled down to transference. We see ourselves in our dead. We question our own mortality when others die. We see ourselves in their dead faces and question whether we would be happy if their final stories were our own.
      I know that this is a pretty universal interpretation. And I know that it's almost always true.
      But I have no dread of my own mortality. In fact, it doesn't bother me at all.

      There is no transference taking place. My last few posts may read like I have a sense of empathy, but I really don't. I can like someone, even love them..without feeling empathy.

      But I appreciate that you gave it some thought.
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      • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post


        There is no transference taking place. My last few posts may read like I have a sense of empathy, but I really don't. I can like someone, even love them..without feeling empathy.

        But I appreciate that you gave it some thought.

        Quite the contrary. It doesn't involve empathy at all. It's very ego driven. If you reread what I said, you'll see it comes back to you. It may not be a conscious process. It's a lizard brain thing.

        Why else would you be angry that the con man died? Maybe it's not him you're actually upset with. You're getting up there in years and you've stated you realize you don't have many left - enough so that you've stated you probably won't buy another car. Are there things you're upset you haven't accomplished?

        Travel?

        Transference of knowledge?

        Seven consecutive push ups?
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        • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
          Originally Posted by Dan Riffle View Post

          Quite the contrary. It doesn't involve empathy at all. It's very ego driven. If you reread what I said, you'll see it comes back to you. It may not be a conscious process. It's a lizard brain thing.
          Got it.

          Originally Posted by Dan Riffle View Post

          Why else would you be angry that the con man died? Maybe it's not him you're actually upset with with
          Again, a well thought out, insightful reply....that is off the mark.
          Why was I angry that my conman friend died? Because I knew him, and he wasted his life. For some reason, I took it as a personal insult....not that he killed himself, but that I knew he would never turn it around...and dying guaranteed that. On some very deep level, it may be that I regret not being able to change him. Not sure.


          Originally Posted by Dan Riffle View Post

          you've stated you probably won't buy another car. Are there things you're upset you haven't accomplished?

          Travel?

          Transference of knowledge?

          Seven consecutive push ups?
          The only thing that I think about ("upsets me" is a stretch) is that it seems to be a waste if I don't get the remaining books out that I want to write. That would satisfy my "transference of knowledge". I don't have to be alive, for that to happen.

          I only have one fear, that I'll outlive my wife. It isn't my own mortality, but hers, that I think about. I think old couples have a sort of shorthand....a shared existence, that only comes after decades together. It's like we are two hemispheres of the same brain. Losing her would be less like losing a loved one, and more like suffering a severe stroke. I'm serious.

          My fear is not being alone, but being without her.

          I just re-read this post, and laughed at my own self involvement. But...I already typed it, so there.


          By the way, I can do seven consecutive push-ups. Seven consecutive push-ups over seven consecutive days.
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      • Profile picture of the author discrat
        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

        Very insightful, and true.






        I know that this is a pretty universal interpretation. And I know that it's almost always true.
        But I have no dread of my own mortality. In fact, it doesn't bother me at all.
        Claude,
        Not to pick on you but I could have sworn you said (relatively) recently that you were afraid to go to sleep in fear of not waking up or dreaming you were going to die or something similar to that nature.

        Not trying to start anything and of course I mean this by no offense at all.

        I guess for my won piece of Mind making sure I am not seeing or hearing things that are not true
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        • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
          Originally Posted by discrat View Post

          Claude,
          Not to pick on you but I could have sworn you said (relatively) recently that you were afraid to go to sleep in fear of not waking up or dreaming you were going to die or something similar to that nature.
          Robert;

          I have the recurring feeling that I'm going to die during the night, if I'm up late at night. It isn't a fear. I'm not afraid at all. My rational mind knows it's a false feeling. The more tired I am, the less my cerebral cortex is awake...and the stronger the feeling.

          But the feeling is absolutely real. I've mentioned it to my wife.

          But I have no emotional reaction to it. It's almost as though I'm watching someone else have this feeling. And I believe (but am not sure) that most people would find this feeling crippling. I suspect this is what most people would call severe depression.

          It's not that I was afraid to go to sleep. It was that I was sure I wouldn't wake up.

          My theory is that one part of the brain is sending me strong emotional signals of dread, and my rational part of the brain is ignoring it. I'm experiencing both thoughts at the same time, but separately. I think most people experience these things as one cohesive thought....meaning, if they feel they are going to die, then the rational part of the brain comes up with the verbal thoughts that support the feeling.

          I think I'm incapable of experiencing depression. It may also be why I'm incapable of having a supernatural experience.
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          • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
            Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

            Robert;

            I have the recurring feeling that I'm going to die during the night, if I'm up late at night. It isn't a fear. I'm not afraid at all. My rational mind knows it's a false feeling. The more tired I am, the less my cerebral cortex is awake...and the stronger the feeling.

            But the feeling is absolutely real. I've mentioned it to my wife.

            But I have no emotional reaction to it. It's almost as though I'm watching someone else have this feeling. And I believe (but am not sure) that most people would find this feeling crippling. I suspect this is what most people would call severe depression.

            It's not that I was afraid to go to sleep. It was that I was sure I wouldn't wake up.

            My theory is that one part of the brain is sending me strong emotional signals of dread, and my rational part of the brain is ignoring it. I'm experiencing both thoughts at the same time, but separately. I think most people experience these things as one cohesive thought....meaning, if they feel they are going to die, then the rational part of the brain comes up with the verbal thoughts that support the feeling.

            I think I'm incapable of experiencing depression. It may also be why I'm incapable of having a supernatural experience.
            The only passing in your sleep your doing is taking place under the covers and your scared of going into a methane induced coma.

            That's Kurt's theory and he's sticking to it.
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